Transgender kid "Jazz" gets older, starts facing problems in "dating world" (video)

[ForeverHeat]

Saw this on another forum, thought Id share it here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxhyFA8iV9o

Apparently it already started taking hormone blockers.

:lol :facepalm

[MadeFromDust]

ghey

[AirTupac]

OP is Jazz

[ForeverHeat]

OP is Jazz

:coleman:

[Jameerthefear]

Why are you referring to her as "it"? Grow up.

[Trollsmasher]

Sick. But of course this society will cuddle it and support it as if it is a normal thing. It will grow up traumatizing its suroundings with its sickness.

Changes cannot come soon enough.

[knickballer]

Only in America :facepalm

Edit: lol @ "Gender reassignment surgery)

[ForeverHeat]

Why are you referring to her as "it"? Grow up.

My bad meant to say he.

[Trollsmasher]

My bad meant to say he.
or she:lol

[knickballer]

How does society cuddle someone? Are there specific establishments you can get cuddled? I need to check up on that. Is it free?

We shouldn't glorify nor vilify transgenders, gays, bisexuals, etc, and just let it be. It situations like these the media and other people are glorifying this little kid as some sort of folk hero going through a great struggle for such an unnatural thing. What parent lets their kid be a transgender at such a young age :wtf:

Again, only in America.

[RidonKs]

Sick. But of course this society will cuddle it and support it as if it is a normal thing. It will grow up traumatizing its suroundings with its sickness.

Changes cannot come soon enough.
yes, our long term strategy should definitely be to humiliate and deride this person. hopefully they'll wind up suppressing their sexuality to the point of madness until they finally blow a fuse and just kill themselves. if we're a little unlucky they may take a few innocent bystanders with them but the ends totally justify the sacrifice.

wait what are those ends again?

[knickballer]

yes, our long term strategy should definitely be to humiliate and deride this person. hopefully they'll wind up suppressing their sexuality to the point of madness until they finally blow a fuse and just kill themselves. if we're a little unlucky they may take a few innocent bystanders with them but the ends totally justify the sacrifice.

wait what are those ends again?

If you can't see that allowing little kids(in this kid when she was probably around 5) to become a transgender than there's something wrong.

Now if the kid was 18 when he wanted to become a transgender than that's a different story as the person is fully mature and aware of his/her sexuality.

[alenleomessi]

odds are the creature will have a tough teenage life, not accepted by society, chooses to keep the ***** and starts doing porn or prostitution.. kills itself in its mid 20s..

[ForeverHeat]

Guys who are supporting this a f*ckin retards. How can the parents let a kid decide at the age of 5 that they want to change gender? Like how does that happen seriously. Its like me saying at the age of 5 that I want to be a transformer and my parents paying for me to have surgery to replace all my limbs with robot limbs. There is a possibility that this kid my regret his decision and live a depression filled life.

[Jameerthefear]

Guys who are supporting this a f*ckin retards. How can the parents let a kid decide at the age of 5 that they want to change gender? Like how does that happen seriously. Its like me saying at the age of 5 that I want to be a transformer and my parents paying for me to have surgery to replace all my limbs with robot limbs. There is a possibility that this kid my regret his decision and live a depression filled life.
have you ever been in the head of a transgender person? felt how they felt?
if the answer is no then shut the **** up.

[ForeverHeat]

have you ever been in the head of a transgender person? felt how they felt?
if the answer is no then shut the **** up.

http://www.styleforum.net/content/type/61/id/1182240/flags/LL

Jameer pls.

[knickballer]

have you ever been in the head of a transgender person? felt how they felt?
if the answer is no then shut the **** up.

Again, the kid was very young when they started the transgender transformation(or w/e the **** it's called). Kids at 6 shouldn't be thinking about that stuff and it's failed job by the parents. The kid probably said something stupid in the backyard about being a fairy and the parents took it as she wanted to be a transgender lol.

[MadeFromDust]

Guys who are supporting this a f*ckin retards. How can the parents let a kid decide at the age of 5 that they want to change gender? Like how does that happen seriously. Its like me saying at the age of 5 that I want to be a transformer and my parents paying for me to have surgery to replace all my limbs with robot limbs. There is a possibility that this kid my regret his decision and live a depression filled life.
bcus it's prolly not real parents. it's prolly 2 bull dyke sickos

[ForeverHeat]

Again, the kid was very young when they started the transgender transformation(or w/e the **** it's called). Kids at 6 shouldn't be thinking about that stuff and it's failed job by the parents. The kid probably said something stupid in the backyard about being a fairy and the parents took it as she wanted to be a transgender lol.

This.

[Trollsmasher]

yes, our long term strategy should definitely be to humiliate and deride this person. hopefully they'll wind up suppressing their sexuality to the point of madness until they finally blow a fuse and just kill themselves. if we're a little unlucky they may take a few innocent bystanders with them but the ends totally justify the sacrifice.

wait what are those ends again?
Well, that would remove their sick genes from the geno pool, so that would a good thing. The world will survive with few less ants on it.

[RidonKs]

If you can't see that allowing little kids(in this kid when she was probably around 5) to become a transgender than there's something wrong.

Now if the kid was 18 when he wanted to become a transgender than that's a different story as the person is fully mature and aware of his/her sexuality.
what do you propose should be the alternative?

bear in mind by transgender i'm speaking strictly of transcending gender stereotypes. so if a little five year old boy wants to wear pink dresses and play with barbies, so be it. that also includes any therapy that might help the situation. talking is never a bad idea. telling the child that what they want isn't "normal" is about 100x more damaging than what you find so offensive.

hormonal replacement or w/e medical procedures enter into the situation is way beyond my level of amateur expertise and i'm pretty certain it's beyond yours as well. on the face of it i'd be uncomfortable with any child under 13 going through that.

that said, waiting until 18 y/o might also be dangerous. our sexual identities are most vulnerable in our mid-late teenage years and any kind of suppression through external coercion strikes me as very unhealthy.



tho bear in mind i was mostly responding sarcastically to the dimwitted bigot i quoted

[Trollsmasher]

ah, another SJW calling somebody a dimwitted biggot

link me your tumblr page, please

[Jameerthefear]

ah, another SJW calling somebody a dimwitted biggot

link me your tumblr page, please
good response dumbass.

[Bosnian Sajo]

have you ever been in the head of a transgender person? felt how they felt?
if the answer is no then shut the **** up.

You're missing the whole point. If this person was mature and knew they wanted to be the opposite gender or w.e, fine go ahead that's your decision. But this is a kid we are talking about. FIVE years old deciding he wants to be a girl? If I had a son that said that to me, I would laugh, video record him, and have my wife put him in a dress so we can take some pictures, y'know, have fun with it. But to take a 5 year old seriously and let him/her/IT(because we obviously cannot agree what gender this creature is) make a HUGE life changing decision like that when it can't even tie its own shoes? :facepalm Really though?

[ForeverHeat]

ah, another SJW calling somebody a dimwitted biggot

link me your tumblr page, please

:oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

You're missing the whole point. If this person was mature and knew they wanted to be the opposite gender or w.e, fine go ahead that's your decision. But this is a kid we are talking about. FIVE years old deciding he wants to be a girl? If I had a son that said that to me, I would laugh, video record him, and have my wife put him in a dress so we can take some pictures, y'know, have fun with it. But to take a 5 year old seriously and let him/her/IT(because we obviously cannot agree what gender this creature is) make a HUGE life changing decision like that when it can't even tie its own shoes? :facepalm Really though?
she's not going through surgery. so this "life changing decision" stuff is a joke. if she grows out of it she'll grow out of it, but to act like you understand what's going on through someone else's head is stupid.

[RidonKs]

Guys who are supporting this a f*ckin retards. How can the parents let a kid decide at the age of 5 that they want to change gender? Like how does that happen seriously. Its like me saying at the age of 5 that I want to be a transformer and my parents paying for me to have surgery to replace all my limbs with robot limbs. There is a possibility that this kid my regret his decision and live a depression filled life.
you're making a logical error here though. its nothing like your stupid analogy because we're all members of the human species and transformers are robot vehicles.

you're assuming that whatever sexual organ somebody was born with has already predetermined their gender. that's just confusing two different things and its simplifying something unbelievably complex. this person isn't deciding to "change" their identity, they're right in the midst of forming it. our gender is fluid from the moment we're born.


i can't actually watch the video; can somebody explain to me exactly what this child undertook beginning at 5 y/o? because if its strictly like superficial interests that don't conform to heteronormativity and maybe some therapy then two questions;

whats the big fking deal?
whats your proposed alternative were SHE your child?

[Bosnian Sajo]

she's not going through surgery. so this "life changing decision" stuff is a joke. if she grows out of it she'll grow out of it, but to act like you understand what's going on through someone else's head is stupid.

Grow out of it? The thing is 12 now, when do you see it growing out of this condition? I'm not saying I understand what is going through someone else's head, I'm saying you shouldn't take what is going through a 5 year old's head too seriously, you can't possibly disagree with that can you? Get real.

[RidonKs]

You're missing the whole point. If this person was mature and knew they wanted to be the opposite gender or w.e, fine go ahead that's your decision. But this is a kid we are talking about. FIVE years old deciding he wants to be a girl?
no you're missing the point. this person didn't already choose a gender then change their mind. nor did they start off with a prefixed gender based on their initial physical state. they're DISCOVERING their gender based on a crazy tangled web of factors that are literally impossible to disentangle and understand and thus are, logically, impossible to judge favourably or negatively.



I'm saying you shouldn't take what is going through a 5 year old's head too seriously
another serious miscalculation. if you actually take kids between 5-10 at their word on serious issues they can understand (which aren't insignificant), they can actually offer some amazing insights. a mistake that imo people have been making for a long time is assuming kids have nothing important to say... that they just need to be taught "the right way to be" and then go along in life just like everybody else. that breeds conformity which breeds stagnation generally speaking.

[Trollsmasher]

This gender thing should really be banned and forgotten

It's a myth created mainly by idiots who have too much free time or are too weak and incapable to actually contribute to the prosperity of society

We've prospered without it for centuries and we should continue to do so. Your sex is your gender, everything else is a lie.

[Jameerthefear]

Grow out of it? The thing is 12 now, when do you see it growing out of this condition? I'm not saying I understand what is going through someone else's head, I'm saying you shouldn't take what is going through a 5 year old's head too seriously, you can't possibly disagree with that can you? Get real.
what do the parents do then? i'm interested on what you think.

[Bosnian Sajo]

no you're missing the point. this person didn't already choose a gender then change their mind. nor did they start off with a prefixed gender based on their initial physical state. they're DISCOVERING their gender based on a crazy tangled web of factors that are literally impossible to disentangle and understand and thus are, logically, impossible to judge favourably or negatively.

:lebronamazed:

Kid was born with a dick, that ain't enough for you??

Lord I pray to thee that I am just being trolled, please don't let this be the way people really think nowadays. Amen.

[RidonKs]

well if people in this thread who find this miracle of creation so offensive just believe their are only two genders and if you don't fit into one of them you need to be weeded out of society.... that's just a conversation stopper.

if people want to engage the issue seriously on the other hand

[Bosnian Sajo]

what do the parents do then? i'm interested on what you think.

Well now it's too late, now the only thing they can do is go along with it, they already ****ed up.

[ForeverHeat]

you're making a logical error here though. its nothing like your stupid analogy because we're all members of the human species and transformers are robot vehicles.

you're assuming that whatever sexual organ somebody was born with has already predetermined their gender. that's just confusing two different things and its simplifying something unbelievably complex. this person isn't deciding to "change" their identity, they're right in the midst of forming it. our gender is fluid from the moment we're born.


i can't actually watch the video; can somebody explain to me exactly what this child undertook beginning at 5 y/o? because if its strictly like superficial interests that don't conform to heteronormativity and maybe some therapy then two questions;

whats the big fking deal?
whats your proposed alternative were SHE your child?

Mate, what are you not getting? While its true starting earlier can make it look more realistic as an adult, but the point is as follows.

Does a 5 year old boy even know what a ****** is? Where would he even see one? Does he know anything about manhood? Or woman hood? At that age kids are too young to even have proper sexual attraction, so how does he even know he is gay? How can you, as a parent, allow a kid to make a decision like this a aged 5? I truly cannot understand how you are trying to justify this.

[ForeverHeat]

she's not going through surgery. so this "life changing decision" stuff is a joke. if she grows out of it she'll grow out of it, but to act like you understand what's going on through someone else's head is stupid.

Dude it already took a boatload is drugs and has stunted his natural growth, it is too late to go back, the kid cant be normal again.

[Trollsmasher]

well if people in this thread who find this miracle of creation so offensive just believe their are only two genders and if you don't fit into one of them you need to be weeded out of society.... that's just a conversation stopper.

if people want to engage the issue seriously on the other hand
there are no genders

just sexes

and yes, human race has only two sexes

deal with it, SJW and then grow up and do something productive

[Bosnian Sajo]

another serious miscalculation. if you actually take kids between 5-10 at their word on serious issues they can understand (which aren't insignificant), they can actually offer some amazing insights. a mistake that imo people have been making for a long time is assuming kids have nothing important to say... that they just need to be taught "the right way to be" and then go along in life just like everybody else. that breeds conformity which breeds stagnation generally speaking.

Totally agree, especially the part where you said on issues they can understand. This situation, choosing your ****ing gender, some adults cannot understand (for example, you assume I don't understand), what makes you think a 5 year old can?

[Jameerthefear]

there are no genders

just sexes

and yes, human race has only two sexes

deal with it, SJW and then grow up and do something productive
this. like judging people you don't know over the internet

[RidonKs]

:lebronamazed:

Kid was born with a dick, that ain't enough for you??

Lord I pray to thee that I am just being trolled, please don't let this be the way people really think nowadays. Amen.
from google


gen

[Trollsmasher]

[QUOTE=RidonKs]from google


gen

[ForeverHeat]

[QUOTE=RidonKs]from google


gen

[RidonKs]

Mate, what are you not getting?
while if you want my opinion on this particular example you'll have to fill me in on the particulars since i can't watch the video right now.

again, what do you propose as an alternative if your child is showing every sign of breaking with convention?

i mean if we want to make believe a magical situation in which a little boy briefly jokes about wanting to wear a dress and his parents are suddenly compelling him to wear dresses and play ringette and wear makeup we can just ignore the real world entirely.

an actual situation would obviously, if you take a good look at your own life and your own sexual history, be a much more subtle and longer process of engaging with a world that is already through the media and just other people's attitudes very gender stereotyped and attempting to narrow down/figure out your own interests/attitudes.

[RidonKs]

[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]drag

[ForeverHeat]

They don't just let it happen you moron. There's a battery of psychological tests before they just hand out hormones and allow sex changes. You don't just walk in and tell them to cut your dick off of your body. Get a f*cking clue.

:biggums:

What tests can you do on a 5 year old that will make you believe they are ready to make a life changing decision they cannot possibly understand the ramifications of?

[RidonKs]

But scientifically you have two genders
no. scientifically you have two sexual determinates based on a complicated physiogical system that bears heavily but DOES NOT DETERMINE gender, which is a concept human beings invented to bridge the gap between culture and sexuality, which themselves are very complicated concepts.

[ace23]

I've seen this shit. Her teen years are going to be hell. I rarely feel sorry for strangers but I feel for her, shit.

[Trollsmasher]

no. scientifically you have two sexual determinates based on a complicated physiogical system that bears heavily but DOES NOT DETERMINE gender, which is a concept human beings invented to bridge the gap between culture and sexuality, which themselves are very complicated concepts.
tl;dr bullshit

[ForeverHeat]

while if you want my opinion on this particular example you'll have to fill me in on the particulars since i can't watch the video right now.

again, what do you propose as an alternative if your child is showing every sign of breaking with convention?

i mean if we want to make believe a magical situation in which a little boy briefly jokes about wanting to wear a dress and his parents are suddenly compelling him to wear dresses and play ringette and wear makeup we can just ignore the real world entirely.

an actual situation would obviously, if you take a good look at your own life and your own sexual history, be a much more subtle and longer process of engaging with a world that is already through the media and just other people's attitudes very gender stereotyped and attempting to narrow down/figure out your own interests/attitudes.

Wearing dresses and wearing make up does not make it acceptable to cut the kids ***** off. Its basically mutilation (I know the people in the vid havent done that but they are rendering his dick useless through the drugs). Kids at 5 know nothing about sexual organs, so how can he know which one he wants, and that he wont change his mind?

[ace23]

:lebronamazed:

Kid was born with a dick, that ain't enough for you??

Lord I pray to thee that I am just being trolled, please don't let this be the way people really think nowadays. Amen.
Do you know what gender is?

[Trollsmasher]

Do you know what gender is?
fabricated construct

[RidonKs]

I've seen this shit. Her teen years are going to be hell. I rarely feel sorry for strangers but I feel for her, shit.
an important question we need to ask ourselves, and i've brought this up repeatedly and nobody really cares to take the question seriously, is what possible alternative do we have?

yes her life is going to suck balls. would it be better or worse for her to suppress her instincts? there are two extremes here; appetite suppression and her current course. maybe there's a middle ground that would bring about the best results?

i think priorities are important in this discussion. people like trollsmasher (clearly) and bosjian/heatforever (to a lesser extent) clearly do not hold this particular individual's health and success later in life as a top priority. to them, there are greater societal concerns at hand that need to take precedence. to me, those two concerns totally overlap; the general health of the species and the particular health of the individual essentially equate to the same end result.

[Bosnian Sajo]

[QUOTE=RidonKs]from google


gen

[ace23]

fabricated construct
What?

[AI Thornton]

fabricated construct

As opposed to non-fabricated constructs? :oldlol:

[RidonKs]

Wearing dresses and wearing make up does not make it acceptable to cut the kids ***** off. Its basically mutilation (I know the people in the vid havent done that but they are rendering his dick useless through the drugs). Kids at 5 know nothing about sexual organs, so how can he know which one he wants, and that he wont change his mind?
again, at what age were the drugs administered? which drugs were administered and for exactly which purposes? were the drug types and dosages the result of extensive examination or were they prescribed willy nilly? you don't take drugs to "change your gender", you take drugs to very specifically alter your chemistry in a myriad of ways.

these are important questions. you don't just get to make a blanket assessment on a situation you have like 7 minutes of experience reading about in a news article and declare that its the same as fking castration. seriously dude i'm trying to be charitable to your point of view and i know you feel strongly about this almost definitely for what you believe are very good reasons that have nothing to do with bigotry or hate.... but all i want to say is get a goddamn clue. this stuff is unbelievably complicated.




you know what we can definitely conclude very early on just based on our experience with say self-destructing celebrities? that all this media attention and personalized discussion by people who barely give it a second's thought (on both sides of the argument) will be more destructive than any solution to the so-called problem.

[Bosnian Sajo]

They don't just let it happen you moron. There's a battery of psychological tests before they just hand out hormones and allow sex changes. You don't just walk in and tell them to cut your dick off of your body. Get a f*cking clue.

You're getting off track, there has been no medical procedures done, this is a situation where the kid told it's parents that he wants to be a girl, and they started dressing him in girls clothes and raised him as a girl from age 5.

[ForeverHeat]

Why don't you do some research on it if it f*cking bothers you so much?

That kid is far more well adjusted than you seem to be.

I dont need to research to know 5 year olds shouldnt be making life decisions, you dumb f*ck.

A five year old cant smoke for another 10+ years
A five year old cant drink for another 10+ years

A five year old can't even play this game:

http://img.game.co.uk/ml2/2/5/6/1/256178_xbx_b.png

All because their mental age is not ready to handle such activities. Yet they are able to decide to make a permanent mutilate their bodies? Sound logic bro.

[ForeverHeat]

again, at what age were the drugs administered? which drugs were administered and for exactly which purposes? were the drug types and dosages the result of extensive examination or were they prescribed willy nilly? you don't take drugs to "change your gender", you take drugs to very specifically alter your chemistry in a myriad of ways.

these are important questions. you don't just get to make a blanket assessment on a situation you have like 7 minutes of experience reading about in a news article and declare that its the same as fking castration. seriously dude i'm trying to be charitable to your point of view and i know you feel strongly about this almost definitely for what you believe are very good reasons that have nothing to do with bigotry or hate.... but all i want to say is get a goddamn clue. this stuff is unbelievably complicated.




you know what we can definitely conclude very early on just based on our experience with say self-destructing celebrities? that all this media attention and personalized discussion by people who barely give it a second's thought (on both sides of the argument) will be more destructive than any solution to the so-called problem.

I understand where your coming from, but there has to be a point where it just gets too much. Everything can be portrayed in a way that sheds a positive light on an action, as there are almost always a positive and a negative to each scenario.

Who is to say that this kid would not change its mind when it actually lived life properly as a boy? If it got to a old enough age and still thought he wanted to change then so be it. But deciding at 5? I've heard of adults who actually changed their mind about being transgender and flipped themselves back the other way. So why put a kid at age 5 through all this?

Also, if you have a XY chromosome, what makes you think psychologically that you should have an XX chromosome? I mean things like dresses, make up, female activities etc. are all based on society and dont actually have anything to do with genetics, so that cant be a reason to change your sex. Thats one thing I dont get, but thats neither here nor there I guess since its their body and they can do what they want.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Gay people know they're gay before they reach puberty. Many transgender people do too. Why is that hard for you to understand?

You can expect society to be accepting of it once it gets used to it. Why do you think black people are better off now than they were 100 years ago?


Black people got accepted into society, they didn't dye their skin white to become accepted.

Born black = black
Born white = white
Born male = male
Born female = female

You can be attracted to the same sex and be gay, you can even cross dress so a male looks more like a female. There is a distinct difference in acting and being. A male can act like a female all his life, but at the end of the day he will forever be a male.

Sammy Sosa can try to change his skin color all he wants, but he will forever be a black male.

[Bosnian Sajo]

Also, it doesn't matter. If it's what the kid wants it's what the kid wants. If she just wanted to wear the clothes she wouldn't be transgender.

So that is how you're going to raise your children, by giving them everything they want? I mean if you'd be willing to allow your child to change his or her gender just because that is what he or she wants, will you also buy them a pony because that is what the child wants? Hell, the kid wants a car, go out and buy the little sucker a car, because it's what the child wants, and that is what is important. Can't be much more expensive than gender transformation surgery.

I don't agree with your way of thinking at all, it is very flawed.

[Bosnian Sajo]

ProfMurder and Ridonks are gonna be very accepting of their children though, I'll tell you what. Question, if one of your 5 year old boys came up to you and said "daddy, I want to be a muslim and go to jumah with Bosnian Sajo from ISH on Fridays", you'd be fine with that? I mean it is what the child WANTS after all, if the kid can make a decision as to which gender he or she falls into at age 5, why not religion?

[ForeverHeat]

i wanna fight her/him/it.

My man :applause: Where you been at bro

[knickballer]

I would be fine with them being Muslim, but I don't want them associating with a messageboard stranger that's so closed off to others groups of people.

Would you be fine with him going to a mosque with a friend and praying 5 times a day while fasting during Ramadan?

[RidonKs]

There is a distinct difference in acting and being
again this would be something we disagree on. there is a conceptual distinction, as in we could spend like 8 hours if we wanted trying to theoretically narrow down exactly where acting ends and being begins... but that would be a waste of my time and yours (and as it happens, also all of academia who devote their lives to such projects).

without going into much detail, how you act shapes who you are and it becomes a feedback loop whereby who you are obviously dictates how you act.

thats just a nitpick though. prolly not gonna engage much more in this thread but at least you're taking the issue seriously which is much more than can be said for most people who take a strong stance.

[ForeverHeat]

So because I recognize that gay people and transgendered people exist that means I have to bend to every beck and call of said hypothetical kid? That's flawed thinking, equating material possessions with mental stability and identity.

How much do you know about transgenders? How many have you talked to? How many books have you read?

What do YOU know about transgender? Probably nothing but you agree with these disgraceful parents. The kid was 5. Why are you not understanding this? This thing is only legal cause they were rich enough to convince some money hungry doctor to go along with this charade. If this kid got therapy to get over his hate for his gender he could of been a healthy teenage boy by now, but we will never know because his parents took a drastic route WAY too early.

[thebirdman]

I thought the kid sounded thoughtful and as if she understood herself well. Did some of you just not listen to her?

I've learned a little about transgender people over a few years and don't see the problem with this. Did the men in this thread know you were men when you were five? I did. Why cant she know she's a girl?

The parents seem just as understanding and supportive too.

I think the people bashing this situation should have more respect for everyone involved.

[RidonKs]

Question, if one of your 5 year old boys came up to you and said "daddy, I want to be a muslim and go to jumah with Bosnian Sajo from ISH on Fridays", you'd be fine with that?
of course! and thats coming from a jew.

but again, this is similar to your post about giving kids ponies. nobody is arguing that parents should give into their child's every demand without serious initial deliberation and engagement with them afterwards. that's a strawman.

perhaps i wouldn't be altogether comfortable with my kid becoming a muslim -- partly out of sheer bias and partly because i don't think organized religion is particularly helpful or enlightening for people these days with other alternatives available. i would want him to share with me what he is learning and how he is approaching the new teachings and it would hope i could shed some light on where religion can go wrong. etc etc etc etc

you get the point. there is almost no choice a little boy can make that is innately negative barring harming himself, harming somebody else, or putting himself or somebody else in immediate harm's way. attending a mosque for prayer does none of those things. and in fact i see fasting as an exercise of mental fortitude that i would probably encourage, whether for ramadan or some other reason.

hence i would let him do as he pleases and i would take the necessary steps to ensure for him the best possible outcome.



and just an aside, lol @ choosing islam as an extreme limit case and like THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO FOR MY KIDS OMG HOW EVER WILL I REMEDY THIS DIRE SITUATION

[Bosnian Sajo]

I would be fine with them being Muslim, but I don't want them associating with a messageboard stranger that's so closed off to others groups of people.

:oldlol: Really though, you'd let your 5 year old change his or her religious views just like that? Are you raising the kid or is the kid raising you?

I'm honestly at a loss for words. I see you as being the ignorant one, thinking a 5 year old is so intellectually stable as to be able to choose its ****ing religion and gender. Shit doesn't work like that, and th


Nope. Not gonna do it. We obviously have 2 very different views, especially when it comes to raising children. I hope one day you are in this type of position though, whether it be your child wants to be a different gender, different religion, whatever. I'd love to see how your free raised child ends up. You're gonna be the type of parent who's kids have more power over them, it looks pretty evident with the way that you are cool with every life choice the kid will eventually make.

[RidonKs]

Really though, you'd let your 5 year old change his or her religious views just like that?
DUDE

same point. THEY DONT HAVE RELIGIOUS VIEWS AT 5 YEARS OLD.

they aren't changing anything. they're discovering and experimenting with what is out there. all the power to them. as far as i'm concerned, the more alternative perspectives we approach with an open mind, the wiser we become. i base that on nothing particularly scientific, just my own experience with things, but imo its kind of just intuitively apparent. people who aren't compelled or coerced will usually make pretty safe and secure decisions, so long as their is ongoing dialogue with people who can shed some light. talking is a cure for almost any form of fundamentalism, religious or ideological or racist or what have you.

[Bosnian Sajo]

and just an aside, lol @ choosing islam as an extreme limit case and like THE WORST POSSIBLE SCENARIO FOR MY KIDS OMG HOW EVER WILL I REMEDY THIS DIRE SITUATION

I didn't choose it as a worst case scenario, you're the one who is looking at it that way. I chose Islam as an example because that way of life is drastically different that Christianity or Judaism, just like being a transgender is drastically different lifestyle to being a regular male or female, is all :lol

[Bosnian Sajo]

DUDE

same point. THEY DONT HAVE RELIGIOUS VIEWS AT 5 YEARS OLD.

they aren't changing anything. they're discovering and experimenting with what is out there. all the power to them. as far as i'm concerned, the more alternative perspectives we approach with an open mind, the wiser we become. i base that on nothing particularly scientific, just my own experience with things, but imo its kind of just intuitively apparent. people who aren't compelled or coerced will usually make pretty safe and secure decisions, so long as their is ongoing dialogue with people who can shed some light. talking is a cure for almost any form of fundamentalism, religious or ideological or racist or what have you.


Wait a minute now, as a Jew yourself, shouldn't you be raising your kids to be Jews just like you? I'm asking because as a Muslim myself, I know that it is very important to make sure my kids will be raised as Muslims. And I'm sure you'll be celebrating Hanukkah with your kids and taking them to temple etc. etc., so both sets of kids will have SOME kind of religious view. And as I am typing this I realize how off topic we have guided this conversation :oldlol:

[knickballer]

DUDE

same point. THEY DONT HAVE RELIGIOUS VIEWS AT 5 YEARS OLD.



What if your son goes like
"Daddy, lets move to Alaska so we can play with the pwolar bwears?"

Would you say yes?

[RidonKs]

I didn't choose it as a worst case scenario, you're the one who is looking at it that way. I chose Islam as an example because that way of life is drastically different that Christianity or Judaism, just like being a transgender is drastically different lifestyle to being a regular male or female, is all :lol
lol fair enough


and i said i'm a jew kind of as a joke, i don't identify as jewish except to celebrate the high holidays and joke about the stereotypes. so no i don't give a shit if my kid identifies as jewish or not.

i take back what i said in that last post btw. there are definitely things a kid could do that aren't immediately harmful that would still be damaging, so i was exaggerating there. the example i was thinking of is overstimulation from say video games.... i work in an elementary school and have witnessed first hand the problems that can arise and the growth that can be stunted by too much of that stuff.

but the general point stands, i think. we aren't too far off topic, we're still talking about kids and choices.


a few points to get the convo back on track

a) i don't think going to a mosque or even celebrating a holiday constitutes "choosing a religion". and in fact, i believe if kids understand that one can legitimately choose between different religions, they're much more likely not to settle on any of them.

b) this can relate very generally back to sexuality. the initial state is a rather flexible one. we have certain demands we need met; language, intimacy, creativity, spirituality, and many others. we happen to have built into our very structure many faculties that can carry out functions to acquire those things.

c) again, all of these are incredibly flexible. really the only precondition to our successfully meeting these needs and flourishing as a result is that we are not compelled by coercive external forces down one or another path. it has to be as up to us as possible.

d) so the same open mindedness i've been trying to preach this entire thread is the bottom line to all of this. if my kid wants to wear a dress or pray to allah, my best course of action is to LET HIM TRY IT. he may like it, he may not. it's not an easy task having a conversation with him about it but the open discourse is necessary because he needs to understand that whichever choice he makes is OKAY. typically this methodology will lead to safe and secure choices down the road, as i said before, and in the end the final destination is health and happiness.

[RidonKs]

What if your son goes like
"Daddy, lets move to Alaska so we can play with the pwolar bwears?"

Would you say yes?
sigh

[dude77]

At that age kids are too young to even have proper sexual attraction, so how does he even know he is gay?


you develop your sexuality early on .. so yeah by 5-6 you know if you like ***** or dick or both .. whether subconsciously or consciously .. there's no question about it .. by 5-6, I was crushing on women .. teachers, people I saw on tv, etc .. I remember putting my hand down a girl's skirt and grabbing her bare ass in kindergarten .. it was just an impulse thing, couldn't help it .. I knew I liked 'women' by that point ..

as for this kid, it's definitely something you do not take lightly since they're that young, but I'm not surprised that he would know he's a 'girl' mentally at that age..

whether that may have been able to be reversed is another complicated story .. but what if they don't do anything and he grows up all fkd and confused because he's a female mentally but walking around like a male ? .. not to say he's not having issues now because he still has a **** but at least he's able to live and present himself as what he mentally sees himself as ..

I nor you nor anyone else can pretend to know what's inside someone else's mind ..

so the p word is censored but not dick :facepalm :oldlol:

[Myth]

What do YOU know about transgender? Probably nothing but you agree with these disgraceful parents. The kid was 5. Why are you not understanding this? This thing is only legal cause they were rich enough to convince some money hungry doctor to go along with this charade. If this kid got therapy to get over his hate for his gender he could of been a healthy teenage boy by now, but we will never know because his parents took a drastic route WAY too early.

The troll is strong with this one. I don't think I have seen a non-troll post of yours. If you want to be a successful troll, you need a certain amount of posts that seem rational to convince people you are genuine.

[MadeFromDust]

i wanna fight her/him/it.
so you think you can box?

[Meticode]

A couple of things crossed my mind. Did the parents have any influence on this as Jazz was getting older.

I think it's naive for people to say "As a parent, how do you like your child choose to be a boy or girl."

As humans we don't choose to feel a certain way a about something. We react whatever way we react at the certain time in whatever certain situation without a choice in the matter.

I hope Jazz succeeds in life. In the end, when you're on your death bed, what's going to matter is what you did in life as a reflection to yourself to others, and your relationships.

[bdreason]

If you can't see that allowing little kids(in this kid when she was probably around 5) to become a transgender than there's something wrong.

Now if the kid was 18 when he wanted to become a transgender than that's a different story as the person is fully mature and aware of his/her sexuality.


I used to have a similar opinion, but some people are just born gay/different. My sister-in-laws brother has twin boys, and one of them is gay, period. There is no denying that he was born gay. He loves barbies, and dresses, and everything a little girl loves... while his brother loves trucks and other boy related toys, etc. His parents don't tell him he's gay, but they let him be who he is, and play with the toys he wants, and dress like he wants to dress (for the most part, they don't let him wear dresses). When I first learned of the situation I thought they were making a mistake by allowing him to behave like a girl, but after meeting the kid many times, there is no doubt in my mind that he thinks he's a girl, and will always think he's a girl.

It's definitely a difficult situation, because other children aren't going to understand, and it's going to lead to difficulties in school etc. However, either you let the kid be who he really is, and deal with the consequences... or you teach him to deny who he really is, and live his life in a lie.

[oh the horror]

Well, that would remove their sick genes from the geno pool, so that would a good thing. The world will survive with few less ants on it.


One might argue that your views and intolerance would be a "sick gene".



Times are a' changing dude. You'll either roll with the tide or obsolete yourself out of humanity. It's that simple.



Ill admit watching the video made me uncomfortable because the kid is very young. They (kid and parent) are tackling some serious issues early on and frankly being a tween/teen is hard enough without adding this complexity to it.



Rough road ahead for this kid for sure.

[Bosnian Sajo]

a few points to get the convo back on track

a) i don't think going to a mosque or even celebrating a holiday constitutes "choosing a religion". and in fact, i believe if kids understand that one can legitimately choose between different religions, they're much more likely not to settle on any of them.

b) this can relate very generally back to sexuality. the initial state is a rather flexible one. we have certain demands we need met; language, intimacy, creativity, spirituality, and many others. we happen to have built into our very structure many faculties that can carry out functions to acquire those things.

c) again, all of these are incredibly flexible. really the only precondition to our successfully meeting these needs and flourishing as a result is that we are not compelled by coercive external forces down one or another path. it has to be as up to us as possible.

d) so the same open mindedness i've been trying to preach this entire thread is the bottom line to all of this. if my kid wants to wear a dress or pray to allah, my best course of action is to LET HIM TRY IT. he may like it, he may not. it's not an easy task having a conversation with him about it but the open discourse is necessary because he needs to understand that whichever choice he makes is OKAY. typically this methodology will lead to safe and secure choices down the road, as i said before, and in the end the final destination is health and happiness.

Considering my surroundings living in the USA, I have to agree with this post. Not saying you changed my mind if I personally think this is ethically correct or not, but you definitely have changed the way I look at it as just an onlooker. This is the American culture 100% and I cannot argue with the fact that this is looked at as being ethically sound in our society. However I will say that in the culture I was raised in, it is not acceptable to allow your child total freedom as to these types of choices, sexuality, religion, etc.

[iamgine]

If her parents didn't let him be a girl, he might be a healthy, happy boy all his life. I don't believe for one second this premise that a 5 year old can know for sure. People can be influenced one way or the other quite easily on many things, even adults. This decision is not without consequences, he's gonna face a very tough battle all his life now. It's not as simple as "oh let the kid try it". WTF kind of parent is that.

[oh the horror]

If her parents didn't let him be a girl, he might be a healthy, happy boy all his life. I don't believe for one second this premise that a 5 year old can know for sure. People can be influenced one way or the other quite easily on many things, even adults. This decision is not without consequences, he's gonna face a very tough battle all his life now. It's not as simple as "oh let the kid try it". WTF kind of parent is that.




So basically force fit a mold so society accepts you, and things aren't hard?



Good parenting bro.

[dude77]

If her parents didn't let him be a girl, he might be a healthy, happy boy all his life. I don't believe for one second this premise that a 5 year old can know for sure. People can be influenced one way or the other quite easily on many things, even adults. This decision is not without consequences, he's gonna face a very tough battle all his life now. It's not as simple as "oh let the kid try it". WTF kind of parent is that.

or he could be a tortured soul .. what about all the people out there living in a mental prison because they have issues like this that are never addressed .. and this may very well be an absolute blessing for him/her because he's gonna grow up looking like a female since they can suppress his puberty .. if he truly has a female mind but grows up with a masculine body, voice, face, that would be even more cruel for him

[iamgine]

So basically force fit a mold so society accepts you, and things aren't hard?



Good parenting bro.
Strawman argument.

[iamgine]

or he could be a tortured soul .. what about all the people out there living in a mental prison because they have issues like this that are never addressed .. and this may very well be an absolute blessing for him/her because he's gonna grow up looking like a female since they can suppress his puberty .. if he truly has a female mind but grows up with a masculine body, voice, face, that would be even more cruel for him
That would depend absolutely on the premise that a 5 year old can know for sure, which I don't believe.

[dude77]

That would depend absolutely on the premise that a 5 year old can know for sure, which I don't believe.

yeah that's the question .. it's a conundrum .. but it would definitely be better for the kid if they were able to figure that out sooner than later

[ForeverHeat]

The troll is strong with this one. I don't think I have seen a non-troll post of yours. If you want to be a successful troll, you need a certain amount of posts that seem rational to convince people you are genuine.

Isnt it ironic that you are the one calling me a troll when you just follow me thread to thread to call me a troll without ever actually adding anything to the debate?

[dunksby]

Wait a minute now, as a Jew yourself, shouldn't you be raising your kids to be Jews just like you? I'm asking because as a Muslim myself, I know that it is very important to make sure my kids will be raised as Muslims. And I'm sure you'll be celebrating Hanukkah with your kids and taking them to temple etc. etc., so both sets of kids will have SOME kind of religious view. And as I am typing this I realize how off topic we have guided this conversation :oldlol:
You won't make a good parent with that view, at least when it comes to being a spiritual/belief guide. Parenting is different than managing or bossing. Your kids are not your property, they are not your pets nor beloved slaves. You think Islam is the way to go for you? Good then, but don't reproduce cause you want to kick out baby Muslims.

[ballup]

So is it even more awkward when she gets a boner?

[LJJ]

You won't make a good parent with that view, at least when it comes to being a spiritual/belief guide. Parenting is different than managing or bossing. Your kids are not your property, they are not your pets nor beloved slaves. You think Islam is the way to go for you? Good then, but don't reproduce cause you want to kick out baby Muslims.

You are asking for a spiritual flexibility that per definition doesn't exist in devout people.

[dilley]

Would.

[Nick Young]

Sick. But of course this society will cuddle it and support it as if it is a normal thing. It will grow up traumatizing its suroundings with its sickness.

Changes cannot come soon enough.
Forreal doe. This transgender shit is mental illness. We don't coddel schizos and manic bipolars, I dont understand why we coddle people who are convinced they're the opposite gender and inject themselves with hormones off the opposite gender and have their genitals surgically mutilated.

This PC society is truly becoming a joke:facepalm

[Nick Young]

yes, our long term strategy should definitely be to humiliate and deride this person. hopefully they'll wind up suppressing their sexuality to the point of madness until they finally blow a fuse and just kill themselves. if we're a little unlucky they may take a few innocent bystanders with them but the ends totally justify the sacrifice.

wait what are those ends again?
They arleady are mad if they think injecting themselves with hormones and mutilating their genitals is going to change the fact that they're a male.

Gender is not a societal construct, it is purely biological. get that PC tryhard bullshit outta here son

[ForeverHeat]

Goddamn Nick :applause:

[oh the horror]

I can't see why it would bother anyone what this kid or anyone similar does.



I can see not agreeing with it, but some of you dudes seem flat out angry about it.


That's interesting.

[Nick Young]

I can't see why it would bother anyone what this kid or anyone similar does.



I can see not agreeing with it, but some of you dudes seem flat out angry about it.


That's interesting.
Because it is coddling someone with a severe mental illness. We would not coddle someone with multiple personality disorder and encourage them to listen to the voices in their head and fully embrace their multiple personalities would we?

We wouldn't encourage a manic depressive to act out on their every emotional whim.

Gender is entirely biological. This whole 'trannys should be coddled' movement is political correctness gone mad. IMO it is wrong to coddle and encourage people whose ultimate goal in life is to have their genitals surgically mutilated and inject themselves artificially with hormones of the opposite gender.

Its similar to the whole fat overweight people should be celebrated and encouraged movement. Bullying fatties is the only thing that motivates them to get fit. If they are encouraged to stay fat and accepted as the whales they are, they are only going to get fatter and more unhealthy.

[ALBballer]

I can't see why it would bother anyone what this kid or anyone similar does.



I can see not agreeing with it, but some of you dudes seem flat out angry about it.


That's interesting.

The only thing I am against is allowing a 5 year old to make such a drastic decision. But if the parents are fine with it then it isn't my place to deny them injecting their child with hormonal treatments and forever changing the child's life.

edit:

I admit I am naive about the subject. so the hormonal treatments delay puberty and isn't permanent?

[CeltsGarlic]

damn this is absolutely sick. In every possible way. Stupid ass parents.

[tpols]

You won't make a good parent with that view, at least when it comes to being a spiritual/belief guide. Parenting is different than managing or bossing. Your kids are not your property, they are not your pets nor beloved slaves. You think Islam is the way to go for you? Good then, but don't reproduce cause you want to kick out baby Muslims.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with raising your kids under your beliefs.. this whole let them do whatever they want shit is absurd. Everyones so soft.

[ForeverHeat]

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with raising your kids under your beliefs.. this whole let them do whatever they want shit is absurd. Everyones so soft.

Yeah I agree with this. Every parent wants whats best for their kid, there is a reason kids have parents. Its not like certain animal species where the offspring goes off on its own as soon as its born. Parents are there to raise their child in the best way so that they have a stable life set up for them when they reach adulthood. Taking their word for something this serious at age 5 is unbelieveable.

[tpols]

Yeah I agree with this. Every parent wants whats best for their kid, there is a reason kids have parents. Its not like certain animal species where the offspring goes off on its own as soon as its born. Parents are there to raise their child in the best way so that they have a stable life set up for them when they reach adulthood. Taking their word for something this serious at age 5 is unbelieveable.

I was talkin about the religion thing.. but yea this is kinda fvcked up. Like others have said some kids are ashamed if their too dark, some are ashamed if their too pale, short, ugly etc. doesnt mean they should be handed all kinds of drugs to drastically morph what they were born as. Maybe give them option to choose and 16 or 18 but not anything younger.. and like others have said this is a mental illness.. their obsession with changing their bodies to fit their mental mode borders on what anorexics/bulimics do when they want to get skinnier and skinnier etc.

[ForeverHeat]

I was talkin about the religion thing.. but yea this is kinda fvcked up. Like others have said some kids are ashamed if their too dark, some are ashamed if their too pale, short, ugly etc. doesnt mean they should be handed all kinds of drugs to drastically morph what they were born as. Maybe give them option to choose and 16 or 18 but not anything younger.. and like others have said this is a mental illness.. their obsession with changing their bodies to fit their mental mode borders on what anorexics/bulimics do when they want to get skinnier and skinnier etc.

Yep I agree completely.

[chosen_one6]

Nick Young you're an ignorant fcuk.

First you say Latinas are all white.

Now you're saying homosexuality is a mental disease. Holy fcuking shit you're an ignoramus.

[Nick Young]

Nick Young you're an ignorant fcuk.

First you say Latinas are all white.

Now you're saying homosexuality is a mental disease. Holy fcuking shit you're an ignoramus.
Many Latinas are white, sorry for teaching you facts.

Here's another true fact that will probably piss you off.

Most African Americans in the United States today have more white blood in them then they do African blood.

There's a reason African Americans go to Africa and are called white by the Africans.



Anyone who wants their genitals surgically removed and mutilated, and thinks injecting themselves with hormones is going to make them the opposite gender has a mental defect, sorry for speaking truth and not jumping about the PC bullshit train.

It is not natural to want your own genitals surgically mutilated and to pay thousands of dollars to go through with a procedure like that.

Gender is 100% biological. Deal with it.

[chosen_one6]

Many Latinas are white, sorry for teaching you facts.

Here's another true fact that will probably piss you off.

Most African Americans in the United States today have more white blood in them then they do African blood.

There's a reason African Americans go to Africa and are called white by the Africans.



Anyone who wants their genitals surgically removed and mutilated, and thinks injecting themselves with hormones is going to make them the opposite gender has a mental defect, sorry for speaking truth and not jumping about the PC bullshit train.

It is not natural to want your own genitals surgically mutilated and to pay thousands of dollars to go through with a procedure like that.

Gender is 100% biological. Deal with it.

Many of them are not white, you fcuking idiot. You've obviously never traveled to any country in Latin America.

Having the mindset of the opposite sex but being in a different body is not an illness. It doesn't make them act any different than any other human being. They still function correctly and still can contribute to society in a positive way. You're just a dumb fcuk that can't understand that concept. It's ok, there's plenty of other idiots out there in this country and in the world that can't open their minds or be as accepting as others.

Have fun with your head up your ass. No wonder why your ISH user name is Nick Young. You're a god damn airhead.

[ForeverHeat]

Some people take PC to another level, and this is a level too far. Actually a level too far was reached a while ago, but this is entering unbelievable territory. I wonder what will be acceptable next.

[Bosnian Sajo]

You won't make a good parent with that view, at least when it comes to being a spiritual/belief guide. Parenting is different than managing or bossing. Your kids are not your property, they are not your pets nor beloved slaves. You think Islam is the way to go for you? Good then, but don't reproduce cause you want to kick out baby Muslims.

Literally my entire family is Bosnian Muslim, pure bloodline that emigrated from present day Turkey to present day Serbia and eventually moved down into Bosnia (all ottoman at the time), yet I should forget about all that and throw my family identity away by not raising my future children the way people in my family have been raising kids for generations?


:oldlol:


Best part is this man said you won't be a good parent that way. I guess my dad (SUPER religious Muslim, doesn't miss a prayer ever under any circumstances, went to Hajj about 7 years ago) ****ed up by raising a daughter who just finished a dual degree in Psychology and Bio-medicine, a son (me) who is atm working on his Engineering degree and running his fathers grocery store (19 years old son, what were you doing at 19?) along side his mother while my father works night shifts as a doctor, and a 2nd son who has a 4.1 gpa in HS right now. What a terrible parent :applause:

[Trollsmasher]

Some people take PC to another level, and this is a level too far. Actually a level too far was reached a while ago, but this is entering unbelievable territory. I wonder what will be acceptable next.
My personal bet is necrophilia for the sexual orientation stuff and hormonally/surgically developed hermaphrodites for the gender stuff but who knows where the tumblr SJW train takes us next

[Bosnian Sajo]

Anyone who wants their genitals surgically removed and mutilated, and thinks injecting themselves with hormones is going to make them the opposite gender has a mental defect, sorry for speaking truth and not jumping about the PC bullshit train.

It is not natural to want your own genitals surgically mutilated and to pay thousands of dollars to go through with a procedure like that.

Gender is 100% biological. Deal with it.

Exactly the way I see it. I have an understanding as to why it is considered ok here in America, seeing as the motto is be who you want to be by living in the pursuit of happiness, but that doesn't make it right.

[ForeverHeat]

Many of them are not white, you fcuking idiot. You've obviously never traveled to any country in Latin America.

Having the mindset of the opposite sex but being in a different body is not an illness. It doesn't make them act any different than any other human being. They still function correctly and still can contribute to society in a positive way. You're just a dumb fcuk that can't understand that concept. It's ok, there's plenty of other idiots out there in this country and in the world that can't open their minds or be as accepting as others.

Have fun with your head up your ass. No wonder why your ISH user name is Nick Young. You're a god damn airhead.

First of all, theres no need for insults, it makes you look bad as opposed to the person they are aimed at. Secondly, its always easier to accept something then to disagree with something and risk engaging in a battle over a certain issue. Those who are simply accepting radical mutilations for psychological reasons are the ones who are subjecting these people to further mental damage. How can you possibly feel that you are something different to what you are biologically? Its akin to me claiming I actually have the mindset of a dog, or a old chinese woman, or a midget, when I am clearly NEITHER. If I claimed any of those things, I would be sent to a mental institution. But why is this accepted then? What is the difference?

Even if we go so far as to say it is their choice, why would you allow a 5 year old to go through with this? How can you justify it? The steps his parents have taken are so severe that it takes a adult 18 months of psychological tests to allow them to take these steps. I dont care how long they tested this kid, a kid who is 5 CANNOT decide something like this.

I used this example before but maybe you missed it. A 5 year old cannot even legally play this game:

http://img.game.co.uk/ml2/2/5/6/1/256178_xbx_b.png

The reason they cannot play is because they are not mentally ready for the very minor violence in this game. Yet, in your mind, they are mentally ready to decide to undergo a life changing journey to remove their sexual organs and all traces of their current identity, leaving them open to years and years of abuse. All this talk about them "knowing they are the wrong gender", what ever that means, it also a silly argument since there have been many cases of people undergoing this process and then deciding that they made a mistake and this isnt what they wanted. These are grown adults that were convinced they were doing the right thing, yet when it came down to it realised they had made a terrible mistake. Yet you still believe we should let a 5 year old make this decision. Do you even realise how stupid that sounds?

[Nick Young]

First of all, theres no need for insults, it makes you look bad as opposed to the person they are aimed at. Secondly, its always easier to accept something then to disagree with something and risk engaging in a battle over a certain issue. Those who are simply accepting radical mutilations for psychological reasons are the ones who are subjecting these people to further mental damage. How can you possibly feel that you are something different to what you are biologically? Its akin to me claiming I actually have the mindset of a dog, or a old chinese woman, or a midget, when I am clearly NEITHER. If I claimed any of those things, I would be sent to a mental institution. But why is this accepted then? What is the difference?

Even if we go so far as to say it is their choice, why would you allow a 5 year old to go through with this? How can you justify it? The steps his parents have taken are so severe that it takes a adult 18 months of psychological tests to allow them to take these steps. I dont care how long they tested this kid, a kid who is 5 CANNOT decide something like this.

I used this example before but maybe you missed it. A 5 year old cannot even legally play this game:

http://img.game.co.uk/ml2/2/5/6/1/256178_xbx_b.png

The reason they cannot play is because they are not mentally ready for the very minor violence in this game. Yet, in your mind, they are mentally ready to decide to undergo a life changing journey to remove their sexual organs and all traces of their current identity, leaving them open to years and years of abuse. All this talk about them "knowing they are the wrong gender", what ever that means, it also a silly argument since there have been many cases of people undergoing this process and then deciding that they made a mistake and this isnt what they wanted. These are grown adults that were convinced they were doing the right thing, yet when it came down to it realised they had made a terrible mistake. Yet you still believe we should let a 5 year old make this decision. Do you even realise how stupid that sounds?
EXACTLY!

There are also thousands of people who "know" there are voices in their heads and they have to follow everything they say. There are thousands of people who "know" that it is their god given mission on earth to murder people. There are thousands of people who "know" that they are sexually attracted to dead bodies and/or animals and act on those impulses.

Just because someone "knows" something, it doesn't mean all of society should coddle that person and pretend what they "know" is a truth when it's clearly not.

[Bosnian Sajo]

EXACTLY!

There are also thousands of people who "know" there are voices in their heads and they have to follow everything they say. There are thousands of people who "know" that it is their god given mission on earth to murder people. There are thousands of people who "know" that they are sexually attracted to dead bodies and/or animals and act on those impulses.

Just because someone "knows" something, it doesn't mean all of society should coddle that person and pretend what they "know" is a truth when it's clearly not.

But but but gender is different! They just want to be comfortable in their own skin! :oldlol:

Haven't yall every heard of the stories where people legit hate their own limbs? Apotemnophilia, look it up. I remember reading about this one guy who said he always felt like his left arm didn't belong on his body, and when he finally had an amputation to get rid of it he said he now is "happy" and has peace in mind. But it's cool to be abnormal nowadays in this world we live in, so we let it be.

[Andrew Wiggins]

parents should be prosecuted for putting a kid that young through all the rigors of gender reassignment. let the kid live out his life and make the decision on his own at a reasonable age when he understands the circumstances/possible consequences of being a transgender

[ForeverHeat]

But but but gender is different! They just want to be comfortable in their own skin! :oldlol:

Haven't yall every heard of the stories where people legit hate their own limbs? Apotemnophilia, look it up. I remember reading about this one guy who said he always felt like his left arm didn't belong on his body, and when he finally had an amputation to get rid of it he said he now is "happy" and has peace in mind. But it's cool to be abnormal nowadays in this world we live in, so we let it be.

Yep I have heard about this. I saw a woman who got both legs amputated.

[Nick Young]

But but but gender is different! They just want to be comfortable in their own skin! :oldlol:

Haven't yall every heard of the stories where people legit hate their own limbs? Apotemnophilia, look it up. I remember reading about this one guy who said he always felt like his left arm didn't belong on his body, and when he finally had an amputation to get rid of it he said he now is "happy" and has peace in mind. But it's cool to be abnormal nowadays in this world we live in, so we let it be.
They "know" they were meant to be born with only one arm though! We should allow them to get their right arm chopped off and pretend that they are normal though! They need to feel accepted right, we are all human beings!

[Nick Young]

parents should be prosecuted for putting a kid that young through all the rigors of gender reassignment. let the kid live out his life and make the decision on his own at a reasonable age when he understands the circumstances/possible consequences of being a transgender
Not only did they put their kid through that but they sent her out to the national media as well. If they only cared about their kid, they would have no need to take this story to the media. The parents are using their child to try to prove a political point. Absolutely disgusting.

Political correctness has taken over America, any who oppose it are branded as nazis, as more and more bullshit is allowed to take root.

Fatty acceptance, tranny genital mutilation acceptance, I wonder what's next. Bestiality perhaps.

[fpliii]

The weirdest part is that she has an older sister who is also transgender, apparently? That makes me a bit skeptical about the situation. :confusedshrug:

Not sure if her parents are getting the correct advice.

[dude77]

interesting points which I don't really disagree with .. but the question is how do you go about treating people like this ? ..

because they are out there and it must be pretty fkd up to be living thinking and feeling like a man but look like a woman or thinking and feeling you're a woman but look like man .. and a lot of these people grow up that way and aren't treated and just exist in their own fkd up misery

[Nick Young]

interesting points which I don't really disagree with .. but the question is how do you go about treating people like this ? ..

because they are out there and it must be pretty fkd up to be living thinking and feeling like a man but look like a woman or thinking and feeling you're a woman but look like man .. and a lot of these people grow up that way and aren't treated and just exist in their own fkd up misery
I dunno, how do you treat other people with similar mental disorders?

The right answer is definitely not to try to force all of society to change and conform to the transgender person's view of them self, and try to force society to accept hormone replacement "therapy" and genital "reconstructive surgery" aka genital mutilation surgery as something that is natural and normal because it sure as f*ck isn't and IMO is a crime against nature.

[ForeverHeat]

interesting points which I don't really disagree with .. but the question is how do you go about treating people like this ? ..

because they are out there and it must be pretty fkd up to be living thinking and feeling like a man but look like a woman or thinking and feeling you're a woman but look like man .. and a lot of these people grow up that way and aren't treated and just exist in their own fkd up misery

Its really a difficult situation for sure, but I just think that encouraging it is definitely the wrong way to go. The sad thing is though that even if you were to attempt to treat it through therapy, there are a lot of people with mental issues that never end up resolved, and they are just depressed and high on medication their whole lives.

We will never know though, since no one is looking for any sort of cure, it is just being encouraged to grow.

[CeilingFan#1]

The weirdest part is that she has an older sister who is also transgender, apparently? That makes me a bit skeptical about the situation. :confusedshrug:

Not sure if her parents are getting the correct advice.

Wait, where did you get that info about her having a transgender sister?

[ForeverHeat]

Wait, where did you get that info about her having a transgender sister?

Theres a part in the video where the parents mentioned going through this with their daughter, but I think they meant the texting boys thing, not the transgender thing. But I cant say for sure.

[CeilingFan#1]

Theres a part in the video where the parents mentioned going through this with their daughter, but I think they meant the texting boys thing, not the transgender thing. But I cant say for sure.

Just re-watched that part. They were definitely talking about going through having a teenage daughter flirting with boys. I can see with the way they phrased it that it could confuse somebody though.

[Patrick Chewing]

An abomination.

[ace23]

Theres a part in the video where the parents mentioned going through this with their daughter, but I think they meant the texting boys thing, not the transgender thing. But I cant say for sure.
Lol I was wondering where he got that info, too. Yeah, I can see how that can be confusing. I thought the same for a second or two when I first watched the vid.

[fpliii]

Just re-watched that part. They were definitely talking about going through having a teenage daughter flirting with boys. I can see with the way they phrased it that it could confuse somebody though.
lol oh okay, if that's the case it doesn't irk me as much. Still a dicey situation though, there's really no right course of action.

[CeilingFan#1]

lol oh okay, if that's the case it doesn't irk me as much. Still a dicey situation though, there's really no right course of action.

Several people in this thread seem to think the right course is to shame that kid until she feels guilt and has a miserable life as a man or kills herself.

[ALBballer]

It kinda amazes me these types of threads get 10+ pages of responses. In the end it's a personal choice and the family and the child should have the say what to do with their bodies. I think it's unethical to give hormone drugs to a 5 year old but if it was approved under a doctor, psychiatrist and/or other "experts" who am I to say otherwise.

[RidonKs]

Gender is 100% biological. Deal with it.
i already spent time talking about this earlier in the thread but its worthwhile to actually lay down the groundwork for why the statement above is at least harmful to the conversation and at most patently false.


sex is 100% biological. you seem to think gender just doesn't exist, and you seem to believe you can demonstrate that fact by calling it a societal construct which is total bull.

bottom line is this: if you think one of either

a) sex and gender are synonymous
b) gender doesn't exist

then you need to come up with a different word that can underlie the fact of life that gender roles and gender stereotypes don't merely reflect our respective reproductive systems.

here's why: it's just glaringly obvious that boys aren't genetically predisposed to like train sets more than girls just because of their d!ck, and its just as obvious that girls aren't genetically predisposed to wear dresses more than pants because of their tw@t. and yet these are facts of life regardless of whether we like them or not. if you disagree with them, you'll have to explain why.

if you don't, you're still left with an explanatory gap. what accounts for the difference if it isn't strictly our sex organs and our hormones? well the vast majority of professionals who have chosen to extensively research the topic have developed a useful word called "gender" to fill the void.

while it may not explain why dresses are still popular and kilts are barely worn, it does address the issue by distinguishing carefully between innate libidinal structure and the amazingly diverse ways that same structure can manifest in the behaviour and personality of individual human beings. this is basically analogous to the difference between "ears" and "hearing".

[Ratnik]

I love me some shemales :pimp:

[Nick Young]

i already spent time talking about this earlier in the thread but its worthwhile to actually lay down the groundwork for why the statement above is at least harmful to the conversation and at most patently false.


sex is 100% biological. you seem to think gender just doesn't exist, and you seem to believe you can demonstrate that fact by calling it a societal construct which is total bull.

bottom line is this: if you think one of either

a) sex and gender are synonymous
b) gender doesn't exist

then you need to come up with a different word that can underlie the fact of life that gender roles and gender stereotypes don't merely reflect our respective reproductive systems.

here's why: it's just glaringly obvious that boys aren't genetically predisposed to like train sets more than girls just because of their d!ck, and its just as obvious that girls aren't genetically predisposed to wear dresses more than pants because of their tw@t. and yet these are facts of life regardless of whether we like them or not. if you disagree with them, you'll have to explain why.

if you don't, you're still left with an explanatory gap. what accounts for the difference if it isn't strictly our sex organs and our hormones? well the vast majority of professionals who have chosen to extensively research the topic have developed a useful word called "gender" to fill the void.

while it may not explain why dresses are still popular and kilts are barely worn, it does address the issue by distinguishing carefully between innate libidinal structure and the amazingly diverse ways that same structure can manifest in the behaviour and personality of individual human beings. this is basically analogous to the difference between "ears" and "hearing".
You spew out as much politically correct and fashionable rhetoric as you wish, that does not make your argument true.

Gender is 100% biological. Accept reality. Deal with it.

Studies of new borns and weeks old babies actually show that girls are more inclined to choose more traditionally feminine toys from a pile while boys are more inclined to choose more masculine toys, like trucks and trains. I know that these studies don't fit the PC line of rhetoric which is why PC simpletons often dismiss them without looking into it. Deal with it.


There is a reason that even in Norway, the most PC 'gender neutral' society in the entire world that a majority of nurses are still female and a majority of engineers are still male, despite massive government wide programs meant to eliminate this gender disparity. Deal with it. It's time that you start to face reality.

[ballup]

It kinda amazes me these types of threads get 10+ pages of responses. In the end it's a personal choice and the family and the child should have the say what to do with their bodies. I think it's unethical to give hormone drugs to a 5 year old but if it was approved under a doctor, psychiatrist and/or other "experts" who am I to say otherwise.
It amazes me that no one else is cracking jokes. :(

[Nick Young]

also:

does address the issue by distinguishing carefully between innate libidinal structure and the amazingly diverse ways that same structure can manifest in the behaviour and personality of individual human beings.

Look at this clown, thinks he's on some bullshit undergrad university debate team:roll: :roll: :roll:

You need to step into the real world, kid. You got a lot to learn. Good luck out there.

[fpliii]

Several people in this thread seem to think the right course is to shame that kid until she feels guilt and has a miserable life as a man or kills herself.
It's just bad trolling, I don't spend too much time on OTC but it's a funny board, as long as you don't take things too seriously.

I think it's a very sensitive subject to handle. Gender identity is big, but when's the right time to address it? Do it too young, and it's a moral issue (how do you know whether the kid identifies with one or another so ****ing soon???). Do it too late, and they won't be able to transition properly. Maybe bring them up in a gender-neutral environment with mild blockers/hormones? But what happens then, when you have a kid who's a boy in 5th grade, and all of a sudden in 6th grade becomes a girl? Unless you change districts, there's gonna be a ton of teasing/ridicule.

It seems to be a very real problem. Ideally, we wouldn't have to deal with it at all, and nobody would have gender identity issues. Unfortunately that isn't the case, so there's a ton of ethical issues/second guessing involved. Fortunately, nobody I know has had to deal with these problems, so I don't know anybody who's had to cope with this. Most suck.

[RidonKs]

so many of these analogies being used are patently unreasonable. schizophrenia, video games, amputees... it's unbelievable that you guys actually think these make for persuasive arguments.



here's the bottom line: people are healthier and less harmful to themselves and others after treatment for a gender identity disorder than they are before treatment. sort of like schizophrenics. which means that transgender identities aren't the sickness, but in fact the cure, for a sexual identity crisis. which obviously exist otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

so now you just have to decide between your preferences: happy healthy people leading successful lives or heteronormativity.

and by health, i just mean they meet i guess maslaws hierarchy or whatever you want to use. basic needs, social needs, creative/job needs, etc.

self harming for adolescents with gender identity disorder pre-treatment is like 1 in 5 according to one study. assuming they don't succeed in killing themselves, without treatment chances are they become a huge drain on the system because they're completely immobilized and unable to fill a societal role.




The right answer is definitely not to try to force all of society to change and conform to the transgender person's view of them self, and try to force society to accept hormone replacement "therapy" and genital "reconstructive surgery" aka genital mutilation surgery as something that is natural and normal because it sure as f*ck isn't and IMO is a crime against nature.
seriously, read this sentence to yourself again and see if it makes sense. "force all of society to change and conform to the transgender person's view of themself"? wtf does that even mean?

[ace23]

It kinda amazes me these types of threads get 10+ pages of responses. In the end it's a personal choice and the family and the child should have the say what to do with their bodies. I think it's unethical to give hormone drugs to a 5 year old but if it was approved under a doctor, psychiatrist and/or other "experts" who am I to say otherwise.
They didn't start with the hormones until she reached puberty.

[RidonKs]

It's just bad trolling, I don't spend too much time on OTC but it's a funny board, as long as you don't take things too seriously.

I think it's a very sensitive subject to handle. Gender identity is big, but when's the right time to address it? Do it too young, and it's a moral issue (how do you know whether the kid identifies with one or another so ****ing soon???). Do it too late, and they won't be able to transition properly. Maybe bring them up in a gender-neutral environment with mild blockers/hormones? But what happens then, when you have a kid who's a boy in 5th grade, and all of a sudden in 6th grade becomes a girl? Unless you change districts, there's gonna be a ton of teasing/ridicule.

It seems to be a very real problem. Ideally, we wouldn't have to deal with it at all, and nobody would have gender identity issues. Unfortunately that isn't the case, so there's a ton of ethical issues/second guessing involved. Fortunately, nobody I know has had to deal with these problems, so I don't know anybody who's had to cope with this. Most suck.
yea this is it right here. good post. i'm gonna stop now lol

[ALBballer]

They didn't start with the hormones until she reached puberty.

For some reason I thought she was on hormone blocking treatment and she was deciding when to get cross hormone treatment?

If she isn't on any sort of hormone blocking treatment I have no issues with it then I suppose. I guess the only issue would be if the parents would try to get insurance to pay for such treatment which would end up being subsidized by others which I am against.

[ForeverHeat]

It's just bad trolling, I don't spend too much time on OTC but it's a funny board, as long as you don't take things too seriously.

I think it's a very sensitive subject to handle. Gender identity is big, but when's the right time to address it? Do it too young, and it's a moral issue (how do you know whether the kid identifies with one or another so ****ing soon???). Do it too late, and they won't be able to transition properly. Maybe bring them up in a gender-neutral environment with mild blockers/hormones? But what happens then, when you have a kid who's a boy in 5th grade, and all of a sudden in 6th grade becomes a girl? Unless you change districts, there's gonna be a ton of teasing/ridicule.

It seems to be a very real problem. Ideally, we wouldn't have to deal with it at all, and nobody would have gender identity issues. Unfortunately that isn't the case, so there's a ton of ethical issues/second guessing involved. Fortunately, nobody I know has had to deal with these problems, so I don't know anybody who's had to cope with this. Most suck.

But dude, at the end of the day, you cannot change from a man to a woman. There is no way to change chromosomes. Its just turning from a guy to a guy with no body hair and a hole where his ***** used to be. Its crude to describe it like this but this is the reality of the situation.

You seem like a level headed poster (Ridonks too), so I'll aim this at you. What is the difference between someone who believes that they should get their limbs amputated because they "feel" or "know" that they should be limbless, and they knew it from birth (this is a real condition). Any sane person would say these people need therapy, not to be encouraged. Why is a situation like this treated differently?

Also, I feel as though some people in this thread are portraying the gender transition as a "coming home" of sorts. As if its going to solve all their problems and they can finally be who they believed they were. But thats not always the case, as there are a lot of cases where a person will make a decision to change gender, and then change their mind after the process and admit they made the wrong decision and it wasn't what they thought. If a grown adult can make a mistake and regret their decision, why are we so sure a 5 year old can't be making a mistake?

[fpliii]

But dude, at the end of the day, you cannot change from a man to a woman. There is no way to change chromosomes. Its just turning from a guy to a guy with no body hair and a hole where his ***** used to be. Its crude to describe it like this but this is the reality of the situation.

You seem like a level headed poster (Ridonks too), so I'll aim this at you. What is the difference between someone who believes that they should get their limbs amputated because they "feel" or "know" that they should be limbless, and they knew it from birth (this is a real condition). Any sane person would say these people need therapy, not to be encouraged. Why is a situation like this treated differently?

Also, I feel as though some people in this thread are portraying the gender transition as a "coming home" of sorts. As if its going to solve all their problems and they can finally be who they believed they were. But thats not always the case, as there are a lot of cases where a person will make a decision to change gender, and then change their mind after the process and admit they made the wrong decision and it wasn't what they thought. If a grown adult can make a mistake and regret their decision, why are we so sure a 5 year old can't be making a mistake?
I'm not gonna pretend to know what I'm talking about, but for these people, there seems to be a distinct separation of sex and gender identity. The chromosomes will never match, but if somebody wants to be viewed a certain way, who am I to judge? A long as I don't have to deal with their problems, it's not my concern.

Two differences...(a) prevalence and (b) difference in nature of condition. Removing limbs places you at a physical disadvantage. ****ing with genitals prevents you from reproducing, but if you have said condition I think you realize you're throwing that out the window.

Can you quantify "a lot"? Admittedly I've done no research on this topic so I'm not going to act like I have an idea, but if we're talking about a minuscule minority, it's not a huge problem.

I think a 5 year old is very dicey, but from my understanding they're not going to operate/mutilate until puberty or late teens, correct? I can't imagine these hormones or blockers or whatever are doing irreversible damage, but it seems if they don't take that shit early on, they're gonna be locked into the physical appearance of their birth sex.

[Nick Young]

so many of these analogies being used are patently unreasonable. schizophrenia, video games, amputees... it's unbelievable that you guys actually think these make for persuasive arguments.



here's the bottom line: people are healthier and less harmful to themselves and others after treatment for a gender identity disorder than they are before treatment. sort of like schizophrenics. which means that transgender identities aren't the sickness, but in fact the cure, for a sexual identity crisis. which obviously exist otherwise we wouldn't be having this conversation.

so now you just have to decide between your preferences: happy healthy people leading successful lives or heteronormativity.

and by health, i just mean they meet i guess maslaws hierarchy or whatever you want to use. basic needs, social needs, creative/job needs, etc.

self harming for adolescents with gender identity disorder pre-treatment is like 1 in 5 according to one study. assuming they don't succeed in killing themselves, without treatment chances are they become a huge drain on the system because they're completely immobilized and unable to fill a societal role.




seriously, read this sentence to yourself again and see if it makes sense. "force all of society to change and conform to the transgender person's view of themself"? wtf does that even mean?
In 3 years you will be lobbying for the societal acceptance of people who f*ck dogs and sheep.

It never ceases to amaze me how easily influenced and lead the people on the PC brigade train are. I used to think Christians were mindless sheep but these Political Correctness Zealots like Ridonks truly take the cake.

They just have no understanding of the real world. Alas.

[Nick Young]

But dude, at the end of the day, you cannot change from a man to a woman. There is no way to change chromosomes. Its just turning from a guy to a guy with no body hair and a hole where his ***** used to be. Its crude to describe it like this but this is the reality of the situation.

bingo:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[ALBballer]

In 3 years you will be lobbying for the societal acceptance of people who f*ck dogs and sheep.



dat slippery slope doe

[Nick Young]

I'm not gonna pretend to know what I'm talking about, but for these people, there seems to be a distinct separation of sex and gender identity. The chromosomes will never match, but if somebody wants to be viewed a certain way, who am I to judge? A long as I don't have to deal with their problems, it's not my concern.

Two differences...(a) prevalence and (b) difference in nature of condition. Removing limbs places you at a physical disadvantage. ****ing with genitals prevents you from reproducing, but if you have said condition I think you realize you're throwing that out the window.

Can you quantify "a lot"? Admittedly I've done no research on this topic so I'm not going to act like I have an idea, but if we're talking about a minuscule minority, it's not a huge problem.

I think a 5 year old is very dicey, but from my understanding they're not going to operate/mutilate until puberty or late teens, correct? I can't imagine these hormones or blockers or whatever are doing irreversible damage, but it seems if they don't take that shit early on, they're gonna be locked into the physical appearance of their birth sex.
Any time you go under the knife you are risking your life. Having cosmetic genital mutilation surgery is dangerous and unhealthy.

[oh the horror]

I hope Nick Young is kidding because if not it makes me dizzy that someone raised an individual like that.


Yet everyone else is sick. This fu*king guy is on another planet.

[Nick Young]

I hope Nick Young is kidding because if not it makes me dizzy that someone raised an individual like that.


Yet everyone else is sick. This fu*king guy is on another planet.
Gender mutilation surgery for the win amirite? Is it safe to say that you are pro-gender mutilation for cosmetic reasons?

[ForeverHeat]

I hope Nick Young is kidding because if not it makes me dizzy that someone raised an individual like that.


Yet everyone else is sick. This fu*king guy is on another planet.

Yo wtf is up with this guy? How many times have you posted yet you havent added anything to the debate. You may disagree with Nick, but atleast he is attempting to actually have a debate (like Ridonks, fpliii, etc.). All I have seen you do is drop in and insult people.

[RidonKs]

What is the difference between someone who believes that they should get their limbs amputated because they "feel" or "know" that they should be limbless, and they knew it from birth (this is a real condition). Any sane person would say these people need therapy, not to be encouraged. Why is a situation like this treated differently?
edit: oops before you read this apparently i did an awful job reading what i quoted above, as you'll see below if anybody actually bothers to get down that far


sigh i keep clicking on this tthread

let's just go ahead and grant you the assumption that there are no "differences" between the two cases. i think it's a ridiculously silly analogy.

in either case, the long term health of the individual should be our top priority. that's my assumption. if you're worried about bullshit like the pussification of america and the collapse of strong traditional values or whatever you like, well this post isn't aimed at you.

so in either case there have to be similarities if you're trying to compare them. the evil arm and the sex identity crisis must be preventing the individual from having just a normal social and work life. they're so preoccupied with their evil arm / conflicted identity and on top of that so embarrassed because they feel different that they can't function in a way a successful person is supposed to.

well absolutely in either case the first step is to talk about it. that's called therapy. that's the go-to solution for practically any problem with a psychological bent. but if talking the issues through with friends, family, and somebody qualified doesn't solve the real issues of overwhelming anxiety and social paralysis and thus stagnation, then you need to move on to alternative proposals.

and those proposals could be anything really. you start with the least dramatic because you never want to start with making significant irreversible change when safer and less drastic alternatives exist. you continue to cull the list seeking solutions until one works, all the while at each step comparing the costs and benefits of the treatment with your current status. eventually, if it comes down to amputation / genital surgery, you make the call you make.



now let's actually present a difference between the two cases.

your evil arm condition is made up. there is no evidence to back up a belief that chopping off the person's arm will solve their evil arm problem. maybe amputation is only addressing the symptom of a larger problem and they'll just fixate on some other body part. maybe what they really need is medication. (side note: medication is NOT natural)

gender identity disorder is a real condition that people all over the world live with. a wide variety of therapies, medicines, and surgeries have been devised as treatment for the condition. they are no more dangerous than breast implants, another procedure that addresses sexual identity issues (i suppose these are completely natural eh nick?)

there's a reason the transgender community is growing, a reason we hear more and more about this stuff in the media, a reason the classic backlash against people who are different is increasing and increasingly belligerent.

it isn't because parents these days just aren't up to the task of saying no to their child so they take every little whim as tantamount to a carefully considered decision. it's not because little tommy smiled at a barbie doll so his parents decided to put him in a dress and shave his legs. and it's not because pc f@ggots want to get in on the "next big thing" to be hip and cool among their lefty emo prog douchebag friends. it's not even because people these days have become accustomed to cookie cutter solutions and rather than deal with their problems like adults seek immediate results through the wonders of science (the only of these four even remotely worth taking serious -- but still not worth taking seriously).

it's because it works. plain and simple, it helps individuals to solve a problem that has plagued them throughout their lives. of course it's not perfect, but the honest truth is that it's very successful. particularly adults who undergo any or all of these options seem only very infrequently to regret their decision. and as people still in the closet come to understand that fact, as solidarity builds and community support groups open up, as bigoted resistance is continually frowned upon, more people feel it's okay.



that was a rambling rant but you probably get the point. end of story, the only two differences to be found in your comparison are

a) there is evidence to support a "cure" for one but not the other
b) there is evidence to support the fact that one really exists and affects people in the real world unlike the other

[Nick Young]

sigh i keep clicking on this tthread

let's just go ahead and grant you the assumption that there are no "differences" between the two cases. i think it's a ridiculously silly analogy.

in either case, the long term health of the individual should be our top priority. that's my assumption. if you're worried about bullshit like the pussification of america and the collapse of strong traditional values or whatever you like, well this post isn't aimed at you.

so in either case there have to be similarities if you're trying to compare them. the evil arm and the sex identity crisis must be preventing the individual from having just a normal social and work life. they're so preoccupied with their evil arm / conflicted identity and on top of that so embarrassed because they feel different that they can't function in a way a successful person is supposed to.

well absolutely in either case the first step is to talk about it. that's called therapy. that's the go-to solution for practically any problem with a psychological bent. but if talking the issues through with friends, family, and somebody qualified doesn't solve the real issues of overwhelming anxiety and social paralysis and thus stagnation, then you need to move on to alternative proposals.

and those proposals could be anything really. you start with the least dramatic because you never want to start with making significant irreversible change when safer and less drastic alternatives exist. and you make your way down the list. all the while comparing the costs of the treatment with its benefits. eventually, if it comes down to amputation / genital surgery, you make the call.



now let's actually present a difference between the two cases.

your evil arm condition is made up. there is no evidence to back up a belief that chopping off the person's arm will solve their evil arm problem. maybe amputation is only addressing the symptom of a larger problem and they'll just fixate on some other body part. maybe what they really need is medication. (side note: medication is NOT natural)

gender identity disorder is a real condition that people all over the world live with. a wide variety of therapies, medicines, and surgeries have been devised as treatment for the condition. they are no more dangerous than breast implants, another procedure that addresses sexual identity issues (i suppose these are completely natural eh nick?)

there's a reason the transgender community is growing, a reason we hear more and more about this stuff in the media, a reason the classic backlash against people who are different is increasing and increasingly belligerent.

it isn't because parents these days just aren't up to the task of saying no to their child so they take every little whim as tantamount to a carefully considered decision. it's not because little tommy smiled at a barbie doll so his parents decided to put him in a dress and shave his legs. and it's not because pc f@ggots want to get in on the "next big thing" to be hip and cool among their lefty emo prog douchebag friends. it's not even because people these days have become accustomed to cookie cutter solutions and rather than deal with their problems like adults seek immediate results through the wonders of science (the only of these four even remotely worth taking serious -- but still not worth taking seriously).

it's because it works. plain and simple, it helps individuals to solve a problem that has plagued them throughout their lives. of course it's not perfect, but the honest truth is that it's very successful. particularly adults who undergo any or all of these options seem only very infrequently to regret their decision. and as people still in the closet come to understand that fact, as solidarity builds and community support groups open up, as bigoted resistance is continually frowned upon, more people feel it's okay.



that was a rambling rant but you probably get the point. end of story, the only two differences to be found in your comparison are

a) there is evidence to support a "cure" for one but not the other
b) there is evidence to support the fact that one really exists and affects people in the real world unlike the other
Your PC sheep logic fails no matter how you try to dress it up. My advice to you is research your sources and start trying to come up with ideas on your own, rather then just blindly follow and parrot what others on the PC brigade tell you to parrot.

What will you be fighting for next, what's the next big cause? Horse f*ckers? Necrophiliacs? They are people too. Our society needs to do its best to accommodate them.

[RidonKs]

yea thanks nick, everybodys a pc sheep but you, way to contribute original thoughts

[ballup]

You don't agree with me. You must be a blind sheep.

[oh the horror]

Yo wtf is up with this guy? How many times have you posted yet you havent added anything to the debate. You may disagree with Nick, but atleast he is attempting to actually have a debate (like Ridonks, fpliii, etc.). All I have seen you do is drop in and insult people.



Why would I argue with people who aren't going to change their opinions?



There's nothing to "add" here. You're either a tolerant person or you just aren't. Why would I type out an entire thesis to someone that is throwing around things like:


"One day people might tolerate sleeping with animals, should we accommodate them as well?"


I mean come on dude. as i said, hes either trolling or hes an untamed fu*king gorilla.

[Andrew Wiggins]

Why would I argue with people who aren't going to change their opinions?



There's nothing to "add" here. You're either a tolerant person or you just aren't. Why would I type out an entire thesis to someone that is throwing around things like:


"One day people might tolerate sleeping with animals, should we accommodate them as well?"


I mean come on dude. as i said, hes either trolling or hes an untamed fu*king gorilla.

they're hyperbolic examples. if you sift through the hyperbole and insults, he makes some valid points

you, on the other hand, are just popping in and insulting posters while posting nothing of substance

[oh the horror]

heres some irony however...


running around calling people 'sheep' while clinging to a social structure that was the 'norm' for the past, but since has been rejected as new lifestyles enter the fray of humanity. again, you'll either adapt or be 'that guy'



i mean really....what exactly is 'normal' anymore?




look man, you can go kicking and screaming but transgendered people are here, and people are accepting them. I dont have to agree, but i sure as hell am not going to judge people on whatever gets them through their day.

[Nick Young]

Why would I argue with people who aren't going to change their opinions?



There's nothing to "add" here. You're either a tolerant person or you just aren't. Why would I type out an entire thesis to someone that is throwing around things like:


"One day people might tolerate sleeping with animals, should we accommodate them as well?"


I mean come on dude. as i said, hes either trolling or hes an untamed fu*king gorilla.
It is one thing to be tolerant. It is another to unfairly coddle and support the delusions of people with mental illness rather then offer them psychiatric treatment.

Shall we also coddle and support the delusions of people who are attracted to corpses? Surely there is nothing wrong with them, they aren't harming anyone as the corpses are already dead. Our modern society must show tolerance to those who wish to f*ck corpses, just as we show tolerance and acceptance to those who voluntarily pay thousands of dollars to have their genitals surgically mutilated and think that will make them the opposite gender to the one their chromosomes say they are.

[oh the horror]

they're hyperbolic examples. if you sift through the hyperbole and insults, he makes some valid points

you, on the other hand, are just popping in and insulting posters while posting nothing of substance



name me one valid point he has made that isnt the genric 'merican response to this that we've all heard a billion times.


go.

[Nick Young]

heres some irony however...


running around calling people 'sheep' while clinging to a social structure that was the 'norm' for the past, but since has been rejected as new lifestyles enter the fray of humanity. again, you'll either adapt or be 'that guy'



i mean really....what exactly is 'normal' anymore?




look man, you can go kicking and screaming but transgendered people are here, and people are accepting them. I dont have to agree, but i sure as hell am not going to judge people on whatever gets them through their day.
Dog ****ers are people too. It is wrong to insult them. There is nothing psychologically wrong with it. The dogs are also shown, in scientific studies, to enjoy being f*cked by their owners. Dog f*cker is a dirty term, the correct term is caninesexual. These caninesexuals should not be judged. These people were born instinctively knowing that they are sexually attracted to dogs. They just know, there is no disputing this as fact. They should be allowed to live normal lives just like you and I without judgement or persecution with their canine companion.

[Andrew Wiggins]

name me one valid point he has made that isnt the genric 'merican response to this that we've all heard a billion times.


go.

"Not only did they put their kid through that but they sent her out to the national media as well. If they only cared about their kid, they would have no need to take this story to the media"

valid and i happen to agree with it.

why are you grouping his response with his nationality? you're going to associate one person's statement as a consensus among a country of 300+ million people?

[Nick Young]

name me one valid point he has made that isnt the genric 'merican response to this that we've all heard a billion times.


go.
no need to be xenophobic here kid. We live in a modern society of acceptance, you can either get with the times or be "that guy".

[RidonKs]

It is one thing to be tolerant. It is another to unfairly coddle and support the delusions of people with mental illness rather then offer them psychiatric treatment.
we're LITERALLY talking about people with mental illness seeking out psychiatric treatment. that's what the entire thread is about. the mental illness is gender identity disorder and the treatment is, among other things, hormone replacement therapy.

and yes, we're being tolerant and supportive at the same time. why the hell shouldn't we be? ooooooh yeah, because it's not natural and the same as having sex with bears or pretending you're the reincarnation of napoleon.

jesus christ dude pay attention. you're embarrassing yourself.

[CelticBaller]

12 pages on a lil girl :facepalm

wtf is wrong with you guys

[oh the horror]

It is one thing to be tolerant. It is another to unfairly coddle and support the delusions of people with mental illness rather then offer them psychiatric treatment.

Shall we also coddle and support the delusions of people who are attracted to corpses? Surely there is nothing wrong with them, they aren't harming anyone as the corpses are already dead. Our modern society must show tolerance to those who wish to f*ck corpses, just as we show tolerance and acceptance to those who voluntarily pay thousands of dollars to have their genitals surgically mutilated and think that will make them the opposite gender to the one their chromosomes say they are.



what makes you think he hasnt already gone through a barrage of psychological evaluation? You think anyone walks into the local walgreens, asks for some hormones in fleinstone chewable tablets, and just throws them at him because he woke up feeling fem?


and who exactly is coddling? his parents? theyre trying their best to figure out a situation that is extremely complicated while guiding this kid through it himself.

as for society, no one cares outside of a few news stories....


but there begs the question....media coverage of a human interest story, is coddling to you, and why? because it bothers you that a ****ot is on your tv, and you dont want to flat out say it like that?

i mean what is the diffence between this, and ''jim, the local amputee from the war, that lost his leg, got a prosthetic, and now plans to run in the LA marathon, go jim!''



are we coddling him as well, or merely acknowleding the struggle involved with these people that have to deal with these issues in their lives?


this IS a human interest story that has pages and pages of responses, and thats it.


that word '' coddling'' is bullshit.



ron artest, changes his name to metta world peace. do we all sit around and say f*ck that, hes ron artest....i wont coddle him by calling him metta....nah, we call him metta world peace dude, because those are his wishes and that is who he wishes to be.


No one is coddling a transgendered person by acknowledging them as who they wish to be. They refer to him, as her because that is what she wishes to be, and that is who she feels like.


Using an argument of necrophilia in the same sense, seems pointless... by that definition, we coddle smokers, and it causes cancer, we coddle alcoholics, and it hurts people, families, and the like. What is your point exactly??



wtf do you think? first it'll be transgendered folks, and then cannibals?

[Angel Face]

WTF just a kid, already is a fakkit transgender... What's wrong with this world. So many unnatural things is happening. WTF, if you have a dick stay having a dick, why would anyone want to transform their dick into a pvssy. Fck the one who invented that crap.

[Lamar Doom]

Chill out you guys, we can all agree that "Jazz" is up there for shittiest name

[AirTupac]

Agreed... Unless youre black.

Fixed.

[Lamar Doom]

We're all right.

[JohnFreeman]

He could get bullied out of it

[dunksby]

Literally my entire family is Bosnian Muslim, pure bloodline that emigrated from present day Turkey to present day Serbia and eventually moved down into Bosnia (all ottoman at the time), yet I should forget about all that and throw my family identity away by not raising my future children the way people in my family have been raising kids for generations?
:oldlol:
Best part is this man said you won't be a good parent that way. I guess my dad (SUPER religious Muslim, doesn't miss a prayer ever under any circumstances, went to Hajj about 7 years ago) ****ed up by raising a daughter who just finished a dual degree in Psychology and Bio-medicine, a son (me) who is atm working on his Engineering degree and running his fathers grocery store (19 years old son, what were you doing at 19?) along side his mother while my father works night shifts as a doctor, and a 2nd son who has a 4.1 gpa in HS right now. What a terrible parent :applause:
Your religious prejudice doesn't let you understand my point which is cool, that's how you are. About saying you wouldn't make a good parent, I immediately clarified in the same post that I meant being a spiritual guide.
My parents tried their best to raise me with their own religious ideas but that didn't work. They love me and gave me anything I needed to grow up as a contributing member of the society and I thank them for it, but I would never go to them for counsel/discussion regarding my beliefs. Because I know where they stand, they just know one thing and that's what their religion tells them which is something I cannot get along with as it basically closes any window for any talk anyway and defies sense and logic.
It's ironic our differences on this matter given where you and I live and grew up.

[Nick Young]

what makes you think he hasnt already gone through a barrage of psychological evaluation? You think anyone walks into the local walgreens, asks for some hormones in fleinstone chewable tablets, and just throws them at him because he woke up feeling fem?


and who exactly is coddling? his parents? theyre trying their best to figure out a situation that is extremely complicated while guiding this kid through it himself.

as for society, no one cares outside of a few news stories....


but there begs the question....media coverage of a human interest story, is coddling to you, and why? because it bothers you that a ****ot is on your tv, and you dont want to flat out say it like that?

i mean what is the diffence between this, and ''jim, the local amputee from the war, that lost his leg, got a prosthetic, and now plans to run in the LA marathon, go jim!''



are we coddling him as well, or merely acknowleding the struggle involved with these people that have to deal with these issues in their lives?


this IS a human interest story that has pages and pages of responses, and thats it.


that word '' coddling'' is bullshit.



ron artest, changes his name to metta world peace. do we all sit around and say f*ck that, hes ron artest....i wont coddle him by calling him metta....nah, we call him metta world peace dude, because those are his wishes and that is who he wishes to be.


No one is coddling a transgendered person by acknowledging them as who they wish to be. They refer to him, as her because that is what she wishes to be, and that is who she feels like.


Using an argument of necrophilia in the same sense, seems pointless... by that definition, we coddle smokers, and it causes cancer, we coddle alcoholics, and it hurts people, families, and the like. What is your point exactly??



wtf do you think? first it'll be transgendered folks, and then cannibals?
Please tell me, what is wrong with people who f*ck corpses? They aren't harming anyone. They are perfectly normal people. Why shouldn't necrosexuals be accepted into our society like everyone else? It's none of our business who they f*ck. What do you have against necrosexuals? Please try to be tolerant and accepting.

[thebirdman]

It is one thing to be tolerant. It is another to unfairly coddle and support the delusions of people with mental illness rather then offer them psychiatric treatment.


For anyone that isn't on this forum just to wind people up, this is a condition called Gender Dysphoria and it does indeed require treatment. The most effective treatment is to transition physically to the gender a person is mentally. As has been discussed, this would be preceded by meetings with psychiatrists.

[ForeverHeat]

12 pages on a lil girl :facepalm

wtf is wrong with you guys

Bro I got some bad news.

[JohnFreeman]

jameer was texting her

[Lamar Doom]

Please tell me, what is wrong with people who f*ck corpses? They aren't harming anyone. They are perfectly normal people. Why shouldn't necrosexuals be accepted into our society like everyone else? It's none of our business who they f*ck. What do you have against necrosexuals? Please try to be tolerant and accepting.

For what it's worth you guys can all f*ck my body when I die, I have no issue with that. Tear that ass up.

[Trollsmasher]

For what it's worth you guys can all f*ck my body when I die, I have no issue with that. Tear that ass up.
I personally think it should be made legal if the body owner adds an permission of his body being used for sexual purpose after his death into his will:cheers:

go neprophiliacs, you brave people

[Bosnian Sajo]

Your religious prejudice doesn't let you understand my point which is cool, that's how you are. About saying you wouldn't make a good parent, I immediately clarified in the same post that I meant being a spiritual guide.
My parents tried their best to raise me with their own religious ideas but that didn't work. They love me and gave me anything I needed to grow up as a contributing member of the society and I thank them for it, but I would never go to them for counsel/discussion regarding my beliefs. Because I know where they stand, they just know one thing and that's what their religion tells them which is something I cannot get along with as it basically closes any window for any talk anyway and defies sense and logic.
It's ironic our differences on this matter given where you and I live and grew up.

That's really interesting.

[Myth]

Please tell me, what is wrong with people who f*ck corpses? They aren't harming anyone. They are perfectly normal people. Why shouldn't necrosexuals be accepted into our society like everyone else? It's none of our business who they f*ck. What do you have against necrosexuals? Please try to be tolerant and accepting.

If the deceased gave consent before their death, I have no problem with it.

[the wise man]

Is jazz good? can the heat get him?

[ForeverHeat]

If the deceased gave consent before their death, I have no problem with it.

So, the persons mental being has is of no interest to you? As long as they have their fake happiness ****ing corpses, its all good, right?

[Overdrive]

edit: oops before you read this apparently i did an awful job reading what i quoted above, as you'll see below if anybody actually bothers to get down that far


sigh i keep clicking on this tthread

let's just go ahead and grant you the assumption that there are no "differences" between the two cases. i think it's a ridiculously silly analogy.

in either case, the long term health of the individual should be our top priority. that's my assumption. if you're worried about bullshit like the pussification of america and the collapse of strong traditional values or whatever you like, well this post isn't aimed at you.

so in either case there have to be similarities if you're trying to compare them. the evil arm and the sex identity crisis must be preventing the individual from having just a normal social and work life. they're so preoccupied with their evil arm / conflicted identity and on top of that so embarrassed because they feel different that they can't function in a way a successful person is supposed to.

well absolutely in either case the first step is to talk about it. that's called therapy. that's the go-to solution for practically any problem with a psychological bent. but if talking the issues through with friends, family, and somebody qualified doesn't solve the real issues of overwhelming anxiety and social paralysis and thus stagnation, then you need to move on to alternative proposals.

and those proposals could be anything really. you start with the least dramatic because you never want to start with making significant irreversible change when safer and less drastic alternatives exist. you continue to cull the list seeking solutions until one works, all the while at each step comparing the costs and benefits of the treatment with your current status. eventually, if it comes down to amputation / genital surgery, you make the call you make.



now let's actually present a difference between the two cases.

your evil arm condition is made up. there is no evidence to back up a belief that chopping off the person's arm will solve their evil arm problem. maybe amputation is only addressing the symptom of a larger problem and they'll just fixate on some other body part. maybe what they really need is medication. (side note: medication is NOT natural)

gender identity disorder is a real condition that people all over the world live with. a wide variety of therapies, medicines, and surgeries have been devised as treatment for the condition. they are no more dangerous than breast implants, another procedure that addresses sexual identity issues (i suppose these are completely natural eh nick?)

there's a reason the transgender community is growing, a reason we hear more and more about this stuff in the media, a reason the classic backlash against people who are different is increasing and increasingly belligerent.

it isn't because parents these days just aren't up to the task of saying no to their child so they take every little whim as tantamount to a carefully considered decision. it's not because little tommy smiled at a barbie doll so his parents decided to put him in a dress and shave his legs. and it's not because pc f@ggots want to get in on the "next big thing" to be hip and cool among their lefty emo prog douchebag friends. it's not even because people these days have become accustomed to cookie cutter solutions and rather than deal with their problems like adults seek immediate results through the wonders of science (the only of these four even remotely worth taking serious -- but still not worth taking seriously).

it's because it works. plain and simple, it helps individuals to solve a problem that has plagued them throughout their lives. of course it's not perfect, but the honest truth is that it's very successful. particularly adults who undergo any or all of these options seem only very infrequently to regret their decision. and as people still in the closet come to understand that fact, as solidarity builds and community support groups open up, as bigoted resistance is continually frowned upon, more people feel it's okay.



that was a rambling rant but you probably get the point. end of story, the only two differences to be found in your comparison are

a) there is evidence to support a "cure" for one but not the other
b) there is evidence to support the fact that one really exists and affects people in the real world unlike the other

This isn't exclusively aimed at you:

I'm pretty open minded, I don't get offended by transgenders, transvestites or any sexually "ambivalency". The deal here for me is that the decisionmaker here is a 5 year old and by then his parents followed suit. I know you can reverse a hormon therapy and anything, but there's alot of developement going on between 5 and 10 years old. Psychologist here question if a 10 year old should be able to decide which form of school they want to attend, but yet a 5 year old should decide if he wants to supress his puberty or not? I think there's a big difference if a grown man decides this or a 5 year old as the 5 year old has no feel for consequences.

People evolve and letting 5 year olds taking a test doesn't mean the same test will show the same results 2 years later.

Even adults who change their sex seem to struggle after that. I read about few cases were the then women commited suicide, because they couldn't relate to being a women either. Will try to dig that up later when I'm back home.

I think the problem in some cases lies deeper than just sexuality.

[Nick Young]

If the deceased gave consent before their death, I have no problem with it.
Exactly, if necrosexuals only f*ck corpses who have given consent while alive, they are doing nothing wrong right? Society should do everything it can to remove the negative stigma surrounding necrosexuals today. They are people just like you and me and deserve to live happy lives f*cking corpses.

[travelingman]

Exactly, if necrosexuals only f*ck corpses who have given consent while alive, they are doing nothing wrong right? Society should do everything it can to remove the negative stigma surrounding necrosexuals today. They are people just like you and me and deserve to live happy lives f*cking corpses.

I accept you for who you are. Don't worry about the others.

[Nick Young]

Caninesexuals as well should be accepted by society. It is nobody's business what kind of dog caninesexuals want to f*ck. We need to do our best to accept them and allow them to live happy and judgement free lives.

[Myth]

Caninesexuals as well should be accepted by society. It is nobody's business what kind of dog caninesexuals want to f*ck. We need to do our best to accept them and allow them to live happy and judgement free lives.

The issue with bestiality is informed consent is impossible.

[ForeverHeat]

The issue with bestiality is informed consent is impossible.

Could you please answer my question?


So, the persons mental being has is of no interest to you? As long as they have their fake happiness ****ing corpses, its all good, right?

[Trollsmasher]

Exactly, if necrosexuals only f*ck corpses who have given consent while alive, they are doing nothing wrong right? Society should do everything it can to remove the negative stigma surrounding necrosexuals today. They are people just like you and me and deserve to live happy lives f*cking corpses.
I think I might make a bussiness out of being an advocate of necrosexual acceptance. Wanna join forces?

[Myth]

Could you please answer my question?

No thanks.

[ForeverHeat]

No thanks.

Of course.

So would you kindly gtfo kthnxbai

[Myth]

Of course.

So would you kindly gtfo kthnxbai

No thanks.

[97 bulls]

I havnt read through all of the opinions, but it would seem to me that a simple answer is to date transgender females (humans with female parts but want to be boys).

[Nick Young]

I personally think it should be made legal if the body owner adds an permission of his body being used for sexual purpose after his death into his will:cheers:

go neprophiliacs, you brave people
Necrosexuality is a perfectly acceptable lifestyle. We must work together and fight for their rights!