Will anyone ever surpass Stockton's Assist and Steals records?

[Smoke117]

I kind of find it mind boggling how disrespected he is and seems to be held in low regard to other PG's of his era because he wasn't a big time scorer. (because that's the only facet of the game:rolleyes:) He has 15806 assist and second is a retired Jason Kidd with 12091...this record is never going to be broken. It's absurd the amount assist he has. He has 3265 steals...Jason Kidd is again 2nd with 2684. Both of these guys had long careers and Kidd isn't even close to Stockton's records. They both played 19 seasons, but John Stockton was actually still a good player when he was 40 years old in his 19th season. The guy could have actually played more if he cared to.

It seems like most people just care about scoring and judge a player like that. John Stockton was 1st team All NBA twice, 2nd Team All NBA six times, and 3rd Team All NBA 3 times. He was 2nd team All Defensive Team five times. How does a guy with the records he has and the accolades he's acquired become so underrated? Because Kevin Johnson scored more points, Gary Payton scored more points? Tim Hardaway scored more points etc etc. John Stockton is pretty easily the best PG through the 90s decade. He exemplifies consistency in every facet of his game.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I'll admit, didn't know much about him until this thread. That is some ****ing mad separation from second place in both of those categories...I like the dude more now.

[Xiao Yao You]

I kind of find it mind boggling how disrespected he is and seems to be held in low reguard to other PG's of his era because he wasn't a big time scorer. (because that's the only facet of the game:rolleyes:) He has 15806 assist and second is a retired Jason Kidd with 12091...this record is never going to be broken. It's absurd the amount assist he has. He has 3265 steals...Jason Kidd is again 2nd with 2684. Both of these guys had long careers and Kidd isn't even close to Stockton's records. They both played 19 seasons, but John Stockton was actually still a good player when he was 40 years old in his 19th season. The guy could have actually played more if he cared to.

It seems like most people just care about scoring and judge a player like that. John Stockton was 1st team All NBA twice, 2nd Team All NBA six times, and 3rd Team All NBA 3 times. He was 2nd team All Defensive Team five times. How does a guy with the records he has and the accolades he's acquired become so underrated? Because Kevin Johnson scored more points, Gary Payton scored more points? Tim Hardaway scored more points etc etc. John Stockton is pretty easily the best PG through the 90s decade. He exemplifies consistency in every part of his game.

Because Karl Malone scored more points. Stockton was better as far as I'm concerned. His steals record might be challenged. Hard to imagine the assist record being threatened though.

[Brizzly]

tldr

No.

[LONGTIME]

They'll have to be a iron man to pass Stockton, he only missed 23 games in his 19 year career.

[dude77]

I was thinking about this the other day .. I don't see those records going down anytime soon .. even if they're broken, it's not gonna be for a long ass time

[Smoke117]

Because Karl Malone scored more points. Stockton was better as far as I'm concerned. His steals record might be challenged. Hard to imagine the assist record being threatened though.

That steals record will NEVER be surpassed. In a 19 season career his career average in steals is 2.2...that is just crazy. Put in the fact that he was very durable for his entire career except 98 and nobody is touching that record. No player is going to play at a high level for 19 seasons and average 2.2spg. Hell his total assist and steals all time record would be even higher if not for the shortened season in 99. Chris Paul right now is a great thief, but he'll never last 19 seasons and average 2.2spg for his career for two decades. Stocktons steals record is probably even harder to beat than his assist. I mean jesus christ...2.2spg average over a 19 year career when you were injured one season (98). Hell even lasting 19 years and still playing competitive ball is far'fetched for anyone, and this guy played 19 seasons and at the end averaged 2.2spg while leading the all time steals record easily.

[fragokota]

They'll have to be a iron man to pass Stockton, he only missed 23 games in his 19 year career.

Didn't really know that.It's f*ckin absurd :applause:

[RoseCity07]

Durant. Just extrapolating he'll be averaging 20 assists per game soon. Remember he isn't in his prime and he's only getting better.

[Solefade]

nope.

we'll never see a pass first pg that can average that many assists playing in a system like sloan's again

[chocolatethunder]

Those records will never be broken. Totally underrated here. I don't wanna hear that Karl Malone bullshit. Malone was great but Stockton would have gotten his assists and steals on any team.

[HomieWeMajor]

John was paddin' a bit out there

[fragokota]

nope.

we'll never see a pass first pg that can average that many assists playing in a system like sloan's again

Will we see another Magic that doesn't quit the league after ten years then? Cause his averages were higher

[T_L_P]

I think the reason why people don't really care for Stockton is because he was very much a "stable" player.

Some people are unimpressed with Duncan because it's 22/11/3/2.5 seasons every year. The difference is he did have a lot of monster Playoff runs.

With Stockton, you knew what you were gonna get (15 points, a couple of rebounds, somewhere between 10 and 15 assists, a few steals) and that was it. He never really took it to another level (not that the his normal level was bad or anything). That's why guys like Kidd and Payton are talked about more frequently.

[Smoke117]

I think the reason why people don't really care for Stockton is because he was very much a "stable" player.

Some people are unimpressed with Duncan because it's 22/11/3/2.5 seasons every year. The difference is he did have a lot of monster Playoff runs.

With Stockton, you knew what you were gonna get (15 points, a couple of rebounds, somewhere between 10 and 15 assists, a few steals) and that was it. He never really took it to another level (not that the his normal level was bad or anything). That's why guys like Kidd and Payton are talked about more frequently.

Why would Jason Kidd be talked about more? He was a below, below average scorer with practically no jump shot, was never the floor general Stockton was or the thief he was. I would give Jason Kidd one thing and that's defense. To me he is the best defensive PG ever (sorry Payton fans, but I think Kidd had a bigger impact because of his amazing help defense), but Stockton was no slouch there either. It's amusing how he has a Steve Nash type of body, but he was a little tenacious little dog out there. He was famous for slipping that elbow on a screen to the ribs, but really he has a body like Steve Nash, yet he could actually play defense. He was admittedly slightly more explosive. You would think he was slow and the next thing you know he's at the rim putting up a lay up. He wasn't some super athlete but he had a first quick step that took you off your guard.

I just don't get the bolded part either. The guy was gonna give you 15 points, 10-15 assist, a couple rebounds, garner 2-3 steals and play tenacious defense and that never seemed good enough for anyone? I mean its so easy to average 15-17ppg (in his prime he was up at 17), 13-14 assist, 2-3 steals, and play good defense yet because there other pg's out there who were scorers people just overlooked him. I just don't understand you can overlook him when for a three year period he averaged 17ppg, 14apg, and 3spg, on fantastic efficiency while playing good defense. How is that not dominant...17ppg, 14apg, 3spg with a ts% over 60. I don't see how anyone can overlook that.

[Angel Face]

Not in a long time or maybe not at all. Stockton is the ultimate point guard.

[SCdac]

Definitely my fav PG of all time

[ILLsmak]

I kind of find it mind boggling how disrespected he is and seems to be held in low regard to other PG's of his era because he wasn't a big time scorer. (because that's the only facet of the game:rolleyes:) He has 15806 assist and second is a retired Jason Kidd with 12091...this record is never going to be broken. It's absurd the amount assist he has. He has 3265 steals...Jason Kidd is again 2nd with 2684. Both of these guys had long careers and Kidd isn't even close to Stockton's records. They both played 19 seasons, but John Stockton was actually still a good player when he was 40 years old in his 19th season. The guy could have actually played more if he cared to.

It seems like most people just care about scoring and judge a player like that. John Stockton was 1st team All NBA twice, 2nd Team All NBA six times, and 3rd Team All NBA 3 times. He was 2nd team All Defensive Team five times. How does a guy with the records he has and the accolades he's acquired become so underrated? Because Kevin Johnson scored more points, Gary Payton scored more points? Tim Hardaway scored more points etc etc. John Stockton is pretty easily the best PG through the 90s decade. He exemplifies consistency in every facet of his game.

Yea I love Stockton. I dunno why he doesn't have a GOAT argument in terms of PGs.

I don't think he "could have scored 25ppg if he wanted to", but by the way he took over and some of the game winners he hit, it's obvious that he could score. People say he was on these great teams, but really they weren't so great. lol. He had Karl Malone and that's about it. Everyone else on those teams was pretty scrubby. Sure, those guys are remembered cuz they were on the Jazz... were they talented, not really. I suppose he might have had more talent before, but I didn't really watch him before the 90s.

-Smak

[ProfessorMurder]

Those records will never be broken. Totally underrated here. I don't wanna hear that Karl Malone bullshit. Malone was great but Stockton would have gotten his assists and steals on any team.

Karl Malone would've gotten his points and rebounds on any other team too.

They're both amazing players.

Stockton is the GOAT PG to me.

[chocolatethunder]

Karl Malone would've gotten his points and rebounds on any other team too.

They're both amazing players.

Stockton is the GOAT PG to me.
That's my point exactly.

[bballnoob1192]

another point for kid tho is that he was a triple double machine due to his rebounding skills. triple doubles get talked about more than consistent stats

[Mrofir]

Steve Nash will break the assist record in 2029

[Xiao Yao You]

That steals record will NEVER be surpassed. In a 19 season career his career average in steals is 2.2...that is just crazy. Put in the fact that he was very durable for his entire career except 98 and nobody is touching that record. No player is going to play at a high level for 19 seasons and average 2.2spg. Hell his total assist and steals all time record would be even higher if not for the shortened season in 99. Chris Paul right now is a great thief, but he'll never last 19 seasons and average 2.2spg for his career for two decades. Stocktons steals record is probably even harder to beat than his assist. I mean jesus christ...2.2spg average over a 19 year career when you were injured one season (98). Hell even lasting 19 years and still playing competitive ball is far'fetched for anyone, and this guy played 19 seasons and at the end averaged 2.2spg while leading the all time steals record easily.

The assist record will be much tougher. Most pg's are scorers today for starters. He led the league every year he started until after his micro fracture surgery(still played 50 games!) when his minutes were reduced.

Guys get to start their careers earlier than Stockton who was on the bench(though he should have been starting) for a couple years behind another steal guy and he never did play huge minutes.


It's amusing how he has a Steve Nash type of body, but he was a little tenacious little dog out there. He was famous for slipping that elbow on a screen to the ribs, but really he has a body like Steve Nash, yet he could actually play defense.

They're both white anyway. Nash is scrawny in comparison.


He was admittedly slightly more explosive. You would think he was slow and the next thing you know he's at the rim putting up a lay up. He wasn't some super athlete but he had a first quick step that took you off your guard.

He was fast and strong. Had big hands.


another point for kid tho is that he was a triple double machine due to his rebounding skills. triple doubles get talked about more than consistent stats

Was never that impressed with his triple doubles on 4-19 shooting myself. :wtf:

[Smoke117]

I hold Jason Kidd in high regard, but the fact that he actually has averaged more ppg two seasons over Stockton is hilarious. That first year in on the Nets when everyone was on his nuts he was averaging 13.9 shot attempts to average 14.7 ppg...what the hell was he doing shooting so much when he didn't even average a single point over his shot attempts. I never got why Jason Kidd was allowed to shoot as much as he was when his he was horrible at it lol. I'll always love Kidd because of his defense. He's the greatest defensive Point Guard ever defensively (you can have your Gary Payton, but nobody had a bigger impact than this man), he was a great rebounder and did the dirty work, but he should have never been allowed to shoot as much as the coaches let him lol.

That is one of of the reasons Stockton was so goood...he knew his limitations and he never forced the issue as far as scoring. He averaged over 17ppg three times but he did it in the flow of the offense and on good shots. Stock wasn't even a great shooter either in general...he was good but not great...he just took the right shots, but he was no Jeff Hornacek or anything. He was intelligent enough to never force the issue shooting wise. John Stockton in 19 seasons probably has less bad shots than Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings combined lol.

[9512]

He doesn't get respect because he was a white boy who played like a white boy.

He didn't have as much appeal to most fans in the 90s. I don't think he ever started the all star game. Of course in a league w/ Barkley & Jordan & other charismatic players it's easy to get over shadowed. Most of his fans were his hometown of Spokane, WA, his jazz fans, and white conservative catholic/protestant Republicans. I honestly don't feel most black fans and black media give him enough credit (Sound racist but it's true).

Through all of this, his unreachable assists and steals total count is still under the radar while those ESPN bafoons over discuss MJ vs Kobe vs lebron and now Kevin Durant

And in today's flashy hip hop athletic combo guard he would get even less recognition.

[NumberSix]

There's only a handful of stats in basketball and this guy is the all time leader in 2 of them. Most underrated player of all time.

[Mr. Jabbar]

lebron is on pace if he steals another ring this year

[LAZERUSS]

I'm beginning to believe that Duncan will be the guy to do it...

[Straight_Ballin]

Stockton was only 2 apg shy from the greatest single game passer of all
time, Scott Skiles.

[Harison]

Nope, these records are set in stone.

[Round Mound]

The Greatest Play-Maker and Creator of Offense of All Time :bowdown:

[bballnoob1192]

pretty much as set in stone as many of wilt's record which is pretty damn amzing since he didn't play against 5-9 whiteboys

[Round Mound]

pretty much as set in stone as many of wilt's record which is pretty damn amzing since he didn't play against 5-9 whiteboys

[B]Wilt didn

[Big#50]

Top ten pg.

[BigTicket]

I don't think anyone will break them, they are just too extreme.

Even if you play 1500 games in your career (which only 3 players have ever done), you still need to average 10.5apg and 2.2spg the whole way. There are not many players who can put up those numbers for even a single season, and you have to do it for a full 20-year career.

[MMM]

Yes someone will, especially the assist record. With the way they are rewarded a long with players having longer careers, peaks, and primes than I would think we would see the record breaker in the league within the next 10-15 years.

[BigTicket]

Yes someone will, especially the assist record. With the way they are rewarded a long with players having longer careers, peaks, and primes than I would think we would see the record breaker in the league within the next 10-15 years.

In order to break the record within 10-15 years, you would to already be in the league for 5-10 years, since it takes 20 years to get there.

So which player do you see breaking the record, Paul or Rondo ?

Chris Paul has 6000 assists in 9 seasons, so he'd need another 13 seasons at his current level to get there, which would mean playing until he's 42 ...

Rondo has 4000 assists in 8 seasons, so he needs to keep playing for about 22 more seasons ...

And if not those two, then who else ?

[tontoz]

Durability/longevity are definitely undervalued on this board, not just with Stockton but in general.

What makes Stockton's durability even more remarkable is that he played in a physical era. He was well known (and much disliked by opposing players), for setting hard picks on opposing big men.

[MMM]

In order to break the record within 10-15 years, you would to already be in the league for 5-10 years, since it takes 20 years to get there.

So which player do you see breaking the record, Paul or Rondo ?

Chris Paul has 6000 assists in 9 seasons, so he'd need another 13 seasons at his current level to get there, which would mean playing until he's 42 ...

Rondo has 4000 assists in 8 seasons, so he needs to keep playing for about 22 more seasons ...

And if not those two, then who else ?

Naw, what I meant is the record breaker would be entering the league with in the next 10-15 years. For example an elite PG of the 2020 draft playing for 20 seasons, which I think will be a lot more common going forward.

[Jasper]

Anything is possible , with elite athlete's and longevity of careers , but the combo of Malane , 'points' and Stockston's assists speaks volumes of how great they were.

To this day I can tell you three patented plays they had , and NO ONE could stop them. :)

Because of how the team was set up , I highly doubt the record will be broken.

Remember Nash and Kidd were players that passed first , shot as a 3rd or 4th option (true PG's)