I'd take Lebron over Magic Johnson in an instant.

[Jameerthefear]

Magic is a beast, but honestly I'd take Lebron. I might be underrating Magic though.

[TMT]

No shit

[Mr. Jabbar]

cause youre an idiot

[ZoPunde]

........

[TheReal Kendall]

I think most people would

[Prometheus]

It would certainly be a tough call. I would pick LeBron because he's a much more versatile player and can do more.

It's interesting to wonder though, if things like ISH were around back when Magic was at the height of his powers, how much would people talk about his team being stacked? How much would people criticize Magic for passing to wide-open teammates for game-winning opportunities? Would people call Magic a "Beta" because of his pass-first, super friendly, non-scowling personality?

There are many double standards here. LeBron is like if you took Magic, brought his point guard skills down to earth a little bit so that they're just great but still human, but then gave him extreme upgrades in all aspects of athleticism, and turned him into a far superior shooter and defender.

LeBron > Magic but it's a close call.

[20Four]

Go outside jameer!

http://i.minus.com/jbsQOYOgxlscd.png (http://minus.com/i/bsQOYOgxlscd)

[TheReal Kendall]

It would certainly be a tough call. I would pick LeBron because he's a much more versatile player and can do more.

It's interesting to wonder though, if things like ISH were around back when Magic was at the height of his powers, how much would people talk about his team being stacked? How much would people criticize Magic for passing to wide-open teammates for game-winning opportunities? Would people call Magic a "Beta" because of his pass-first, super friendly, non-scowling personality?

There are many double standards here. LeBron is like if you took Magic, brought his point guard skills down to earth a little bit so that they're just great but still human, but then gave him extreme upgrades in all aspects of athleticism, and turned him into a far superior shooter and defender.

LeBron > Magic but it's a close call.

I'm sure people called those teams stacked back then as well. But it would have been great if the internet and forums were around then.

It would be great to hear some of the stories and to see how the stars would act while being watched 24/7

[KyleKong]

Go outside jameer!

http://i.minus.com/jbsQOYOgxlscd.png (http://minus.com/i/bsQOYOgxlscd)

Is this idiot really trying to own this?

:roll:

[LAZERUSS]

Of course most fans here never saw Magic take a rapidly declining, and injury-plagued Laker team to the Finals in his last full time season...

[20Four]

Is this idiot really trying to own this?

:roll:
Since yall clown on me for it....fvck it..ill have fun with it too

http://i.minus.com/jbsQOYOgxlscd.png (http://minus.com/i/bsQOYOgxlscd)

[sd3035]

At this point I would too, but prime Magic was way better than Bran

[eliteballer]

Magic was so great they named your damn franchise after him.

Rookie Magic playoff averages:

18 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 9.4 apg, 3.1 spg 52% FG 80% FT

Finals averages:

22.5 ppg, 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 spg, 57% FG, 87.5% FT

Including series wins over the Defending Champion Sonics and the Sixers.

Prime LeBron 2011 Finals:

17 ppg.

Rookie Magic> LeBron.

[Genaro]

I would too. Magic is old and has HIV, he wouldn't be even a FP right now.

[JohnFreeman]

Since yall clown on me for it....fvck it..ill have fun with it too

http://i.minus.com/jbsQOYOgxlscd.png (http://minus.com/i/bsQOYOgxlscd)
Meltdown

[20Four]

I would too. Magic is old and has HIV, he wouldn't be even a FP right now.
hahahaha

http://i.minus.com/ibsQOYOgxlscd.png

[coin24]

Im a small d.ick f@ggot that never leaves his bedroom


We know OP :oldlol:

[TheReal Kendall]

Since yall clown on me for it....fvck it..ill have fun with it too

http://i.minus.com/jbsQOYOgxlscd.png (http://minus.com/i/bsQOYOgxlscd)

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/computing.gif

[kobebeangoat]

Magic was so great they named your damn franchise after him.

Rookie Magic playoff averages:

18 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 9.4 apg, 3.1 spg 52% FG 80% FT

Finals averages:

22.5 ppg, 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 spg, 57% FG, 87.5% FT

Including series wins over the Defending Champion Sonics and the Sixers.

Prime LeBron 2011 Finals:

17 ppg.

Rookie Magic> LeBron.
:roll: :applause:

[sportjames23]

Magic is a beast, but honestly I'd take Lebron. I might be underrating Magic though.


And this is why you fail at life.

[20Four]

Magic was so great they named your damn franchise after him.

Rookie Magic playoff averages:

18 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 9.4 apg, 3.1 spg 52% FG 80% FT

Finals averages:

22.5 ppg, 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 spg, 57% FG, 87.5% FT

Including series wins over the Defending Champion Sonics and the Sixers.

Prime LeBron 2011 Finals:

17 ppg.

Rookie Magic> LeBron.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

http://i.minus.com/iDnZwH8fp9sSt.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibsQOYOgxlscd.png

[Rocketswin2013]

Since yall clown on me for it....fvck it..ill have fun with it too

http://i.minus.com/jbsQOYOgxlscd.png (http://minus.com/i/bsQOYOgxlscd)
You're terrible. Let it go.

[20Four]

You're terrible. Let it go.
LOL :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Rocketswin2013]

LOL :bowdown: :bowdown:
:cheers:


Finally. You stopped posting it. It was funny but making it a banner was ridiculous lol

[20Four]

:cheers:


Finally. You stopped posting it. It was funny but making it a banner was ridiculous lol
Cheers my brotha! I'm not a rockets fan but I hope they do well in the playoffs :)

Purple and Gold til I get old :bowdown:

[Rocketswin2013]

Cheers my brotha! I'm not a rockets fan but I hope they do well in the playoffs :)

Purple and Gold til I get old :bowdown:
:cheers:

[Bless Mathews]

Jameer the queer strikes with nonsense again.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Who cares what OP thinks he's never seen Magic play live

If you're 15 like you say then you've really only seen Lebron & Durant play so who cares what you think about anybody else

[riseagainst]

does OP even know who Magic Johnson is outside of hearing other people talking about him?

[Mr. Jabbar]

does OP even know who Magic Johnson is outside of hearing other people talking about him?

There is not a chance in hell that puber troll has seen anything more than 30 secs of magic highlights. At best. The sole fact that he isn't perma banned means mindless low iq trolling is allowed in this board.

[Fiasco]

Because you're 15.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Because you're 15.

[Angel Face]

Magic was so great they named your damn franchise after him.

Rookie Magic playoff averages:

18 ppg, 10.5 rpg, 9.4 apg, 3.1 spg 52% FG 80% FT

Finals averages:

22.5 ppg, 11.2 rebs, 8.7 ast, 2.7 spg, 57% FG, 87.5% FT

Including series wins over the Defending Champion Sonics and the Sixers.

Prime LeBron 2011 Finals:

17 ppg.

Rookie Magic> LeBron.

Rest in Piss, Jameer

[Mr. Jabbar]

Rest in Piss, Jameer

:roll:

[20Four]

Who knows yall...he might be a 40 year old douche bag :roll:

http://i.minus.com/ibdmeJjhCUtazk.png

[Dro]

I think most people would
:biggums:

[OhNoTimNoSho]

ITT people who know nothing about magic

[ripthekik]

jammeer banned :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Levity]

all jokes aside, its time jameer's family steps in and gives him an ISH intervention. the boy has lost his mind.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

I would take LeBron over MJ in an instant

[Marchesk]

I would take LeBron over MJ in an instant

I'd take Wilt over Lebron in an instant.

[mr.big35]

Who knows yall...he might be a 40 year old douche bag :roll:

http://i.minus.com/ibdmeJjhCUtazk.png
why are you so soft. for guy that likes to show his muscles you dont like when people make fun of you why is that.

[sportjames23]

I would take LeBron over MJ in an instant

The main reason we know you're an idiot.

[IncarceratedBob]

I'd take Wilt over Lebron in an instant.
Easily the worst statement made in this thread

[Solefade]

i'd take Magic over Kobe in an instant fasho

[Nash]

I think most people, including Magic himself think Lebron is better.

Only in ISH.

[Dro]

i'd take Magic over Kobe in an instant fasho
I assume most people would, other than fans of Kobe...

[kshutts1]

I'd say prime to prime Lebron is the better all around player, but Magic has so far had the better career, and was arguably more impactful for his particular team.

Lebron's a similar rebounder, worse passer, but a better scorer and shooter and defender.

[HOoopCityJones]

This is why people don't take Lebron fans seriously.

[Solefade]

i know a lot of people ITT are thinking:

Magic >>>>>>>>>> Lebron

Kobe >>>>>>>>>>> Magic :lol :lol

[atljonesbro]

You'd have to be pretty stupid to take Magic over LeBron.

[Solefade]

This is why people don't take Lebron fans seriously.


and thats why everyone thinks laker fans are retards

[aj1987]

LeBron does have a huge blemish as does Magic.

As one of the other posters said, LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and defender. The only thing that Magic has over LeBron is passing. You'd have to be ****ing retarded to take Magic over LeBron.

[HOoopCityJones]

and thats why everyone thinks laker fans are retards

16x Champs baby

We gifted you pussyboys Shaq, show some respect.

[Dro]

LeBron does have a huge blemish as does Magic.

As one of the other posters said, LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and defender. The only thing that Magic has over LeBron is passing. You'd have to be ****ing retarded to take Magic over LeBron.
Impact/leadership/better era/tougher defense>>>>>>>>stats

[Solefade]

16x Champs baby

We gifted you pussyboys Shaq, show some respect.


would rather be gifted rings like the lakers tho

[HOoopCityJones]

would rather be gifted rings like the lakers tho

Ni99a if any Team was gifted rings in this entire League it was the Heat.

2006 especially.

[20Four]

LeBron does have a huge blemish as does Magic.

As one of the other posters said, LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and defender. The only thing that Magic has over LeBron is passing. You'd have to be ****ing retarded to take Magic over LeBron.
How does lebrons jizz taste? Living rent free in yo head...you dumb$hit....

http://i.minus.com/iZmh26EgdTTm4.png

[Solefade]

Ni99a if any Team was gifted rings in this entire League it was the Heat.

2006 especially.


sorry but there's something called the 2002 WCF which doesn't even come close to 2006

[KobesFinger]

LeBron does have a huge blemish as does Magic.

As one of the other posters said, LeBron is a better scorer, rebounder, and defender. The only thing that Magic has over LeBron is passing. You'd have to be ****ing retarded to take Magic over LeBron.

How is LeBron a better rebounder than Magic? Magic's rebounding average, ORPG, ORB% and TRB% are all higher

[aj1987]

How is LeBron a better rebounder than Magic? Magic's rebounding average, ORPG, ORB% and TRB% are all higher
Pace.

[Dro]

Pace.
Thats circumstances...That does not make him a better rebounder...Magic is rebounding from the PG position also. Lebron is playing SF. Technically he SHOULD grab more rebounds...

[20Four]

Pace.
Your a fvcking dumbass who hops onto bandwagons...dont respond to this *******.....virgin b|tch

http://i.minus.com/iZmh26EgdTTm4.png

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Pace.
ORB% and TRB% are adjusted for pace bruv

[aj1987]

Your a fvcking dumbass who hops onto bandwagons...dont respond to this *******.....virgin b|tch
:oldlol:

Manboobed midget. Aren't you like 5'4"?


ORB% and TRB% are adjusted for pace bruv

They aren't. Those the the percentage of rebounds that you grab for your team. Not pace adjusted

[SHAQisGOAT]

Pace.

Dude mentions TRB% and you say pace? :roll: Now we all know how completely clueless you are...

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:oldlol:

Manboobed midget. Aren't you like 5'4"?


They aren't. Those the the percentage of rebounds that you grab for your team. Not pace adjusted
:biggums: :biggums:
"Rebound percentage - The percentage of all available rebounds that a player or team grabs, often broken down into offensive rebound percentage and defensive rebound percentage. This is a better measure of rebounding prowess than rebound rate because it adjusts for game pace, although total rebound percentage is skewed by the ratio of offensive and defensive rebound opportunities. (In other words, a team with a really great defense will have its total rebound rate artificially inflated because defensive rebounds are much easier to grab.) Usually, rebound opportunities are estimated for players based on the team's rebound opportunities per minute, but play-by-play data -- like that used by 82games.com -- can identify a player's exact opportunities.
Statistically: for teams, Reb/(Reb+OPPReb)
for players, (Reb*Min)/((TMReb+OPPReb)/(TMMin/5))"

[DJ Leon Smith]

Pace.

Great answer!

Now answer what happened during LeBron's first two NBA Finals vs Magic's first (in his rookie season, where he won a ring, as Finals MVP).

Can't wait to hear your answer!

[aj1987]

:biggums: :biggums:
"Rebound percentage - The percentage of all available rebounds that a player or team grabs, often broken down into offensive rebound percentage and defensive rebound percentage. This is a better measure of rebounding prowess than rebound rate because it adjusts for game pace, although total rebound percentage is skewed by the ratio of offensive and defensive rebound opportunities. (In other words, a team with a really great defense will have its total rebound rate artificially inflated because defensive rebounds are much easier to grab.) Usually, rebound opportunities are estimated for players based on the team's rebound opportunities per minute, but play-by-play data -- like that used by 82games.com -- can identify a player's exact opportunities.
Statistically: for teams, Reb/(Reb+OPPReb)
for players, (Reb*Min)/((TMReb+OPPReb)/(TMMin/5))"
I get my stars from BB ref.


Total rebound percentage is an estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor

[SHAQisGOAT]

Lemme guess, you've seen the highlights? :rolleyes:

Not saying I wouldn't pick Lebron, his overall peak is probably a bit better.. Lebron has more impact on defense, considerably, but for overall offensive impact I'd probably take Magic.

Again, this is extremely close, and maybe I'd take Lebron, now in an instant? :oldlol: :facepalm It would take some long thinking.

Also funny when someone thinks/says Magic was a liability on defense, he wasn't particularly good but not even remotely close to a liability lol (and Bird had actually some really good defensive impact, despite what some ignorant fools may say). Oh and that man was a beast on offense.

[SHAQisGOAT]

They aren't. Those the the percentage of rebounds that you grab for your team. Not pace adjusted

:roll:

Keep burying yourself :facepalm These Lebron stans are completely clueless.

[aj1987]

Great answer!

Now answer what happened during LeBron's first two NBA Finals vs Magic's first (in his rookie season, where he won a ring, as Finals MVP).

Can't wait to hear your answer!
YES! LeBron had a top 3 GOAT on his team, right? Oh wait, he got injured. NVM. It's not like the dude average 33/14/3/5 in the games his played.

Also, didn't Magic win with scrub defenders on his team? The likes of Coop, Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell... No.. They didn't play on that Lakers team.


:roll:
Keep burying yourself :facepalm These Lebron stans are completely clueless.
Please go back to sucking on some '60's and '70's dick.

For your retarded ass, since you seem to be incapable of reading previous posts:


Total rebound percentage is an estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor

[SHAQisGOAT]

I get my stars from BB ref.

Total rebound percentage is an estimate of the percentage of available rebounds a player grabbed while he was on the floor

:biggums:

So what do you think that means?

Let me give you a "clue": key word there is percentage... Figure it out :facepalm

This dude actually knew that, had the nerve to quote it after he mentioned pace, still goes on contesting the facts, and doesn't even understand the formula or what that (simple) phrase/definition means... :facepalm Lebron's stans for y'all :banghead:

:roll: Funny stuff.. Great argument/discussion :oldlol:

[Dro]

YES! LeBron had a top 3 GOAT on his team, right? Oh wait, he got injured. NVM. It's not like the dude average 33/14/3/5 in the games his played.

Also, didn't Magic win with scrub defenders on his team? The likes of Coop, Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell... No.. They didn't play on that Lakers team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SHAQisGOAT

Keep burying yourself These Lebron stans are completely clueless.
Please go back to sucking on some '60's and '70's dick.

Dude, stop getting defensive and just admit you're wrong..You'll get much more respect that way. Your responses reek of someone who knows they're wrong and is too stubborn to admit it...There is no way, shape or form you're right in this situation. Absolutely zero and you have posters with no allegiance to each other or allegiance to a player(like you do) proving and showing you that you are wrong...

[Dro]

:biggums:

So what do you think that means?

Let me give you a "clue": key word there is percentage... Figure it out :facepalm

This dude actually knew that, had the nerve to quote it after he mentioned pace, still goes on contesting the facts, and doesn't even understand the formula or what that (simple) phrase/definition means... :facepalm Lebron's stans for y'all :banghead:

:roll: Funny stuff.. Great argument/discussion :oldlol:
Absolutely ridiculous...It must be because we're on a message board because there's no way people would keep being so ridiculous in the real world...

[SHAQisGOAT]

YES! LeBron had a top 3 GOAT on his team, right? Oh wait, he got injured. NVM. It's not like the dude average 33/14/3/5 in the games his played.

Also, didn't Magic win with scrub defenders on his team? The likes of Coop, Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell... No.. They didn't play on that Lakers team.


Please go back to sucking on some '60's and '70's dick.


:biggums: :biggums:

Michael Cooper was a Laker yea, and one of the greatest defensive players ever (Magic also had plenty of other defensive help like Kareem, who was still pretty good, so on...) but you're talking about Maurice Cheeks, Bobby Jones and Caldwell Jones?????? :wtf: Actually no, they didn't play for the Lakers :facepalm :roll: These ****ing Lebron stans don't even know what they're talking about, completely clueless. This ignorant child already buried himself on a sealed casket, on this thread :roll: So funny, yet so sad...


Please go back to school my *****, you don't even know what percentage means :rolleyes: :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

I'd still take Magic.

Something that needs to be cleared up though in my opinion.

Magic was a better offensive force than Lebron. He got more out of his teammates, controlled the game better, and when he had the ball in his hands his individual use of a possession for points is the best in NBA playoff history.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a beast offensively, but he's no Magic.

People that didn't watch him play or are only going off the clips just won't understand this.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Absolutely ridiculous...It must be because we're on a message board because there's no way people would keep being so ridiculous in the real world...

Yea, probably :confusedshrug:

[kshutts1]

I'd still take Magic.

Something that needs to be cleared up though in my opinion.

Magic was a better offensive force than Lebron. He got more out of his teammates, controlled the game better, and when he had the ball in his hands his individual use of a possession for points is the best in NBA playoff history.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a beast offensively, but he's no Magic.

People that didn't watch him play or are only going off the clips just won't understand this.
Not that surprising, but do you know where I can find this information?

[DMAVS41]

Not that surprising, but do you know where I can find this information?

yea, just go to basketball-reference.com and look up the offensive rating leaders in the playoffs and regular season at the top...under "leaders"

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

I'd still take Magic.

Something that needs to be cleared up though in my opinion.

Magic was a better offensive force than Lebron. He got more out of his teammates, controlled the game better, and when he had the ball in his hands his individual use of a possession for points is the best in NBA playoff history.

Don't get me wrong, Lebron is a beast offensively, but he's no Magic.

People that didn't watch him play or are only going off the clips just won't understand this.
Werent Amare/Nash Suns better offenses in playoff? They play in much tougher defense era too so u have to consider it

[aj1987]

So what do you think that means?

Let me give you a "clue": key word there is percentage... Figure it out :facepalm

This dude actually knew that, had the nerve to quote it after he mentioned pace, still goes on contesting the facts, and doesn't even understand the formula or what that (simple) phrase/definition means... :facepalm Lebron's stans for y'all :banghead:

Funny stuff.. Great argument/discussion
Good god. I'm a ****ing idiot. My bad.

Still, LeBron is significantly is a better rebounder in the playoffs, according to TRB%. Better scorer, rebounder, and defender (in the playoffs).


Dude, stop getting defensive and just admit you're wrong..You'll get much more respect that way. Your responses reek of someone who knows they're wrong and is too stubborn to admit it...There is no way, shape or form you're right in this situation. Absolutely zero and you have posters with no allegiance to each other or allegiance to a player(like you do) proving and showing you that you are wrong...



Are you seriously arguing that Magic didn't have a stacked as **** team?

Or that he had Coop, Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell, who were GREAT defenders. Or that he had Kareem averaging 33/14/3/5 over the 5 games that he played?

[DMAVS41]

Werent Amare/Nash Suns better offenses in playoff? They play in much tougher defense era too so u have to consider it

Nash is up there in the regular season for his career iirc...

Think he dips noticeably in the playoffs on ortg for his career though.


Not sure about individual years...

[Dro]

Good god. I'm a ****ing idiot. My bad.

Still, LeBron is significantly is a better rebounder in the playoffs, according to TRB%.




Are you seriously arguing that Magic didn't have a stacked as **** team?

Or that he had Coop, Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell, who were GREAT defenders. Or that he had Kareem averaging 33/14/3/5 over the 5 games that he played?
Nah, I'm not talking about that. I'm only talking about your pace comment in reference to Lebron's rebounding...

[Dro]

Good god. I'm a ****ing idiot. My bad.

Still, LeBron is significantly is a better rebounder in the playoffs, according to TRB%. Better scorer, rebounder, and defender (in the playoffs).




Are you seriously arguing that Magic didn't have a stacked as **** team?

Or that he had Coop, Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell, who were GREAT defenders. Or that he had Kareem averaging 33/14/3/5 over the 5 games that he played?
Also, who are you talking about with Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell Jones? They played for the SIXERS...not the LAKERS...

[kshutts1]

yea, just go to basketball-reference.com and look up the offensive rating leaders in the playoffs and regular season at the top...under "leaders"

Thanks :cheers:

Looks like Lebron is 6 ORtg points behind Magic in the RS, and 8 behind in POs. Though I'm not sure how large of a gap that equates to?

And Magic is 3rd in RS, 1st in POs. And using the "compare similar players" method to look at advanced stats that you and fpliii suggested the other day, Magic is 2nd in RS. Chris Paul is first.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Thanks :cheers:

Looks like Lebron is 6 ORtg points behind Magic in the RS, and 8 behind in POs. Though I'm not sure how large of a gap that equates to?

And Magic is 3rd in RS, 1st in POs. And using the "compare similar players" method to look at advanced stats that you and fpliii suggested the other day, Magic is 2nd in RS. Chris Paul is first.
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
CP will go down as 2nd best PG ever at worse so it no surprise:banana:

[aj1987]

Also, who are you talking about with Maurice, Bobby, and Caldwell Jones? They played for the SIXERS...not the LAKERS...
Oh god, I'm drunk. I meant Coop, Wilkes, and Chones, along with KAJ (in the games that he played). Lets also not ignore Nixon's defense.

[kshutts1]

Then for DRtg, Lebron is 102 RS, 101 PO. Magic is 104 RS, 107 PO.

So I doubt O and D numbers can be combined, as it's not that linear, but still gives us a (perhaps) better picture...

Lebron is overall 4 rating points worse than Magic in the RS, and 2 rating points worse in the playoffs. Obvious a super crude way to look at it, but the comparison really is incredibly close.

And I must admit, Magic's defensive rating numbers are higher than expected... is there much team component to them? I'm very unfamiliar with all of the advanced metrics.

[Dro]

Then for DRtg, Lebron is 102 RS, 101 PO. Magic is 104 RS, 107 PO.

So I doubt O and D numbers can be combined, as it's not that linear, but still gives us a (perhaps) better picture...

Lebron is overall 4 rating points worse than Magic in the RS, and 2 rating points worse in the playoffs. Obvious a super crude way to look at it, but the comparison really is incredibly close.

And I must admit, Magic's defensive rating numbers are higher than expected... is there much team component to them? I'm very unfamiliar with all of the advanced metrics.
For the most part, advanced stats are meant to be read from an individual perspective and how that player impacts his team, not the other way around.

[Dro]

Then for DRtg, Lebron is 102 RS, 101 PO. Magic is 104 RS, 107 PO.

So I doubt O and D numbers can be combined, as it's not that linear, but still gives us a (perhaps) better picture...

Lebron is overall 4 rating points worse than Magic in the RS, and 2 rating points worse in the playoffs. Obvious a super crude way to look at it, but the comparison really is incredibly close.

And I must admit, Magic's defensive rating numbers are higher than expected... is there much team component to them? I'm very unfamiliar with all of the advanced metrics.
Actually bro, here's a better explanation..This is in reference to that new plus/minus stat that I posted about..

The numbers have to be read as: Player x changes the result per 100 poss by y amount of points, if y is the RPM value. An average player has 0. Right now the league average rating per 100 poss is about 106.5. Meaning, an average team is scoring 106.5 points in 100 possession, while they also allow 106.5 points in 100 poss. If we take Anthony Davis here as an example, his values means that with him on the court and 4 average players, the expected result would be +1.09 over average on offense (rounding to 1.1) and +0.52 over average on defense (rounded to 0.5). Translating that to the team result would mean, that a team would be expected to score 107.6 points per 100 poss, while they would allow 106.0 points per 100 poss (a value for defense has to be subtracted), therefore creating a scoring margin per 100 poss of 1.6 points (or 1.61 points when the accurate numbers are used, like we see his value at RPM is). Hope that helps to interpret the numbers.

Obviously, someone playing more minutes than another player adds value. Also, the RPM value might be heavily effected by the role a player is assigned to on a team, while a different role might change the value in one way or another. Usually players are following a development curve over their career, but rather staying within a small range at their respective "prime".

The numbers are derived via regression analysis; that is a method used to determine the impact from various variables on a result. In that case each player is seen as a variable and the overall scoring margin would be the result. The method in case of RPM is ridge regression, which helps to get better predictive values; which comes with the price of getting a worse explaination (which is why some people adding up those WAR values aren't getting the exact number of wins for each team). The "creator" also uses a baysian distribution, adjusts for coaching differences, applies such a development curve as well as uses prior values for each player based on boxscore stats in order to achieve an even better prediction.

I hope that helped a little bit ...

[kshutts1]

For the most part, advanced stats are meant to be read from an individual perspective and how that player impacts his team, not the other way around.
I understand that, but a lot of them (at least the ones I have glossed over) have a team component buried inside the formula. As in... a poor defender playing on a strong defensive squad will score higher on a defensive rating than he should.

I am 99% sure that the "rating" metric has this team element as part of the formula, but I'm not sure how weighted it is; is it a relatively large or small factor?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Oh god, I'm drunk. I meant Coop, Wilkes, and Chones, along with KAJ (in the games that he played). Lets also not ignore Nixon's defense.

Oh you're drunk? Great excuse :rolleyes: Glad you've realized Bobby, Cheeks and Caldwell didn't play with Magic, took you long enough :facepalm

I don't think anyone would say that Magic didn't have great teammates, or great defensive teammates at that, can't also deny that the Lakers had to win against some stacked teams in the Finals, plenty of times, and he always had tremendous impact.
In Magic's rookie year (1980), Kareem would've been top3, at least, in DPOY voting if the award was given already, Coop spent his 1st year injured so you can say that that was his rookie season, he was already really good but not really the defensive beast he was later on, Wilkes was still a pretty good defensive player at that time, Chones played good D yea... Ignore Nixon's defense? Yea, we're gonna do that because he didn't play much of it, he was that type of player mostly gambling for steals but not playing good overall defense, or caring much about it.

[Dro]

Norm Nixon was Iverson on defense before Iverson was even thought of....

[Mr. Jabbar]

jameer got banned for this thread, i expect anyone taking lebron to suffer the same fate

[TheMan]

Saying you'd take so and so player easily over Magic, one of the GOAT players, is disrespectful at best and totally ignorant at worst.

I'm a Jordan fan and I wouldn't say that. Of course I'd take MJ but I would say publicly I was torn between who to pick:lol

Seriously though, Magic was a beast:bowdown:

[J Shuttlesworth]

:wtf:
jameer got banned for this thread, i expect anyone taking lebron to suffer the same fate
What did he get banned for? Can the dude go a week w/o getting banned?

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:wtf:
What did he get banned for? Can the dude go a week w/o getting banned?
Why does he keep coming back is a better question

[Mr. Jabbar]

:wtf:
What did he get banned for? Can the dude go a week w/o getting banned?

he should be perma banned by now, its a miracle he keeps coming back, his average thread is titled something like: "Lakers Suck", and has "fact" as the only content

[TheMan]

Jameer is an idiot, the fact that he thinks Ariana Grande is the world's hottest chick:facepalm and prime Salma Hayek wasn't hot is enough to not only warrant a permaban, but he should get his man card revoked.

[pegasus]

OP should also take a bullet to his apparently least used organ.

[aj1987]

Oh you're drunk? Great excuse :rolleyes: Glad you've realized Bobby, Cheeks and Caldwell didn't play with Magic, took you long enough :facepalm

Considering my blunder, I'm getting off easy. Anyone who makes a mistake like I did, MUST be crucified. I accept that I'm a dumbass for that mistake. :oldlol:


Again, LeBron had nowhere NEAR the talent that Magic had, on any of his Cavs teams. Even the title that LeBron has won so far, he did it with Less talent than Magic did on his wins.

[Marchesk]

CP will go down as 2nd best PG ever at worse so it no surprise:

Oscar Robertson :coleman:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Oscar Robertson :coleman:
1 ring as 2nd option doe:coleman: :coleman:
His stats are inflated b/c of pace he wasnt better than CP:coleman:

By the time his career is done itll be clear as day:coleman:

[SAKOTXA]

ISH...
You have discussed this million times, and now this thread is 7 pages long when the OP wasn't even born when Magic retired. You guys are hopeless.

[aj1987]

1 ring as 2nd option doe
His stats are inflated b/c of pace he wasnt better than CP

By the time his career is done itll be clear as day
How many rings does CP3 have?

[Dro]

ISH...
You have discussed this million times, and now this thread is 7 pages long when the OP wasn't even born when Magic retired. You guys are hopeless.
Thats why its our basketball duty to educate him so he doesn't teach his children the wrong way:lol

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

How many rings does CP3 have?
He will have at least one as the 1st option by the time his career is over is what im sayin:coleman:

[Marchesk]

1 ring as 2nd option doe

Bill Russell doe


By the time his career is done itll be clear as day

Oscar top 12 all-time doe

[aj1987]

He will have at least one as the 1st option by the time his career is over is what im sayin:coleman:
He doesn't have any, right now. Oscar is arguably a top 15 GOAT. Are you trying to claim that CP3 would be there as well, with only one ring?

Oh, and Oscar also has an MVP.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

I'd take Wilt over Lebron in an instant.
fair enough:cheers: :cheers:
right now i would too, but if LeGod leads his team to 2-3 more Championships i would take him over everyone:bowdown:

[Marchesk]

right now i would too, but if LeGod leads his team to 2-3 more Championships i would take him over everyone

Kareem and MJ :confusedshrug:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Oh god, I'm drunk. I meant Coop, Wilkes, and Chones, along with KAJ (in the games that he played). Lets also not ignore Nixon's defense.

Nah you're just speaking out your ass... :lol Dont comment on things you are simply uneducated about.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Kareem and MJ :confusedshrug:
http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif
http://cdn.niketalk.com/1/16/164d263f_ibxFWGla38dwbC.gif
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vZi_x-57ato/T0dq3tk8MaI/AAAAAAAAAzI/OfDUGZ_RX5U/s1600/black-guys-laughing.gif

[aj1987]

Nah you're just speaking out your ass... :lol Dont comment on things you are simply uneducated about.
Are you saying that Magic didn't have a stacked team, which had some really good defenders? Or that LeBron had a better team on when he was on the Cav's, than the '80 Lakers?

[smoovegittar]

Damn, you're an idiot. Would you please, PLEASE stop posting about players you have no recollection of? :facepalm

[sd3035]

The only thing I would take Lebron in is a not getting aids contest

[Marchesk]

Image of Jordan laughing because he knows everyone would take him and Kareem before Lebron in a fantasy draft.

Don't lie, you'd take Kareem out of college over Lebron in an instant.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Are you saying that Magic didn't have a stacked team, which had some really good defenders? Or that LeBron had a better team on when he was on the Cav's, than the '80 Lakers?

I am saying quit talking about players you probably have never watched and have NO CLUE about..

Cornbred Maxwell on the Lakers.. you guys are hilarious LMAO!

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Don't lie, you'd take Kareem out of college over Lebron in an instant.
http://philly.barstoolsports.com/files/2012/12/gun5.gif

[kamil]

I'd take Larry Bird over both.

[aj1987]

I am saying quit talking about players you probably have never watched and have NO CLUE about..

Cornbred Maxwell on the Lakers.. you guys are hilarious LMAO!
As I said, I'm an idiot for making that mistake. A Google search would've prevented me from making that mistake or would've lead me to editing my post. I did own up to it. Now, stop trying to change the subject.

The 1980 Lakers >>> Any team that LeBron played on and that's a FACT.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I'd take Larry Bird over both.

Same here.

And as far as peaks I would only take Shaq, Jordan, Kareem and probably Wilt, over Bird... Of course centers have the "chance" to be more impactful (I'd probably take Shaq, Kareem and Wilt over anyone, in terms of peak), and it would've still been a very tough choice.

[TheReal Kendall]

Lebron is the better overall player. Magic said it himself that Lebron is better than.

So why is it so insulting to you guys that some people prefer Lebron over Magic?

I get that Magic had leadership/alpha dog qualities but from a talent/athleticism standpoint Lebron is better.

I will admit that I didn't see much of Magic growing up but I have seen some of his old games on ESPN Classic. He was a great player but Lebron is just overall better and I'm not a Lebron stan so don't go there.

[DMAVS41]

As I said, I'm an idiot for making that mistake. A Google search would've prevented me from making that mistake or would've lead me to editing my post. I did own up to it. Now, stop trying to change the subject.

The 1980 Lakers >>> Any team that LeBron played on and that's a FACT.

In relation to the competition? That just isn't a fact.

Maybe, but it's debatable. It's not clear at all...you are either over-rating the competition of the league from 11 to present...or are under-rating how stacked the Heat really were.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Lebron is the better overall player. Magic said it himself that Lebron is better than.

So why is it so insulting to you guys that some people prefer Lebron over Magic?

I get that Magic had leadership/alpha dog qualities but from a talent/athleticism standpoint Lebron is better.

I will admit that I didn't see much of Magic growing up but I have seen some of his old games on ESPN Classic. He was a great player but Lebron is just overall better and I'm not a Lebron stan so don't go there.

Dudes like Magic or Bird are really humble off the court (when it doesn't come down to who beats who).. Magic said similar stuff various times, Bird, at his peak, said Nique deserved MVP over him, or that King was the better SF.. Doesn't mean those statements are right or facts, doesn't mean they wouldn't try to snatch your soul out on the court, doesn't even mean they actually believe it at heart.

Not saying I disagree but this is extremely close and deserves much thinking. I'd probably say Lebron's peak as an overall player is a bit better but Magic has the edge in offensive impact (which at the end of the day means more than defensive impact, not that Lebron doesn't have major offensive impact though, of course).

[SHAQisGOAT]

In relation to the competition? That just isn't a fact.

Maybe, but it's debatable. It's not clear at all...you are either over-rating the competition of the league from 11 to present...or are under-rating how stacked the Heat really were.

People always forget to relate to competition though.

[TheReal Kendall]

Dudes like Magic or Bird are really humble off the court (when it doesn't come down to who beats who).. Magic said similar stuff various times, Bird, at his peak, said Nique deserved MVP over him, or that King was the better SF.. Doesn't mean those statements are right or facts, doesn't mean they wouldn't try to snatch your soul out on the court, doesn't even mean they actually believe it at heart.

Not saying I disagree but this is extremely close and deserves much thinking. I'd probably say Lebron's peak as an overall player is a bit better but Magic has the edge in offensive impact (which at the end of the day means more than defensive impact, not that Lebron doesn't have major offensive impact though, of course).

I agree. It's very close but some people on here are acting like Magic is miles ahead of Bron which isn't true.

Also I understand that they are humble dudes but at the same time they could very well be telling the truth.

[Railgun]

No one has proved OP wrong yet.

[TheReal Kendall]

No one has proved OP wrong yet.

:oldlol:

What you got banned for?

[Solefade]

wow man the blasphemy of this thread making magic sound like he's a couple tiers above lebron smh

[Dro]

No, he's not tiers, but he's better than Lebron but its pretty close...

[Prometheus]

yea, just go to basketball-reference.com and look up the offensive rating leaders in the playoffs and regular season at the top...under "leaders"

You know what, I did this, and Magic Johnson DID come up #1.

Then I realized Horace Grant came up at #2, and I decided that this is a useless stat.

:oldlol:

[Just2McFly]

I'd take Lebron over Bird and Magic.

[PsychoBe]

what pg now is stopping magic?? it would be embarassing seeing him post-up monsters such as chris paul (lol), kemba walker (lol), ramon sessions (lol), kyrie irving (lol), rajon rondo (lol), damien lillard (lol), jose caulderon (lol) and the like.

magic would have a field day in the low post. and when they try to double, he could easily just pass over the top. we're talking about the greatest point guard to have ever played the game. there is no comparison. he would average something like 19/19 (hell he almost did in his own era) easily. surround him with shooters and it's a wrap.

[Mr. Jabbar]

No one has proved OP wrong yet.

except everyone

[sportjames23]

wow man the blasphemy of this thread making magic sound like he's a couple tiers above lebron smh


He is.

Guarantee Magic is on most experts All Time Starting 5.

Can the same be said of Lebron?

[sportjames23]

I'd take Lebron over Bird and Magic.


And you'd be a fool.

[Just2McFly]

And you'd be a fool.
Just wait...I think Lebron's impact and resume can be argued against 99.99% of NBA players that ever played.

Call me a fool.

[plowking]

How exactly is Magic a better player than Bron?

Some of you need to let go with this nostalgic BS and get with what reality is. Bird was a better player than Magic, and Bron has probably surpassed Bird's peak play in these last 2 or 3 years, hence Bron>Magic.

Both are all time great offensive players, while one is an average defender at best, and the other is an all time great defensive player. I'll take the guy who is great on both ends.

[plowking]

He is.

Guarantee Magic is on most experts All Time Starting 5.

Can the same be said of Lebron?

You, in particular are one of the posters on here that gargles plenty of that 80's and 90's nuts.

Really, Magic is on most people's top 5? No shit, his career is finished. Doesn't make him a better player.

Wilt Chamberlain was the best player ever at the time, the moment he stepped on a professional basketball court. He was simply a better player than anyone that had ever played.

Same goes for Bron and Magic. Bron reached a level of individual play that Magic hasn't.

[The-Legend-24]

There is not a single player I would take over LeBron.

LeBron these past 3 season is the GOAT player.

MJ d!cklickers can argue all they want, but let's be real, that era he played in was fvcking garbage. :oldlol:

[sportjames23]

You, in particular are one of the posters on here that gargles plenty of that 80's and 90's nuts.

Really, Magic is on most people's top 5? No shit, his career is finished. Doesn't make him a better player.

Wilt Chamberlain was the best player ever at the time, the moment he stepped on a professional basketball court. He was simply a better player than anyone that had ever played.

Same goes for Bron and Magic. Bron reached a level of individual play that Magic hasn't.


Muthafvcka, did you ever see Magic play? I'm not talking YouTube highlights, I mean actually see him play?

[20Four]

As I said, I'm an idiot for making that mistake. A Google search would've prevented me from making that mistake or would've lead me to editing my post. I did own up to it. Now, stop trying to change the subject.

The 1980 Lakers >>> Any team that LeBron played on and that's a FACT.
That's why don't talk before you know the facts dumb$hit bandwagon b|tch

http://i.minus.com/iP8CPNqz5Zla2.png

[Milbuck]

There is not a single player I would take over LeBron.

LeBron these past 3 season is the GOAT player.

MJ d!cklickers can argue all they want, but let's be real, that era he played in was fvcking garbage. :oldlol:
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lww73eAVky1qfxc1p.gif

[VIntageNOvel]

if leobelisk is that great, why couldnt he carry cavs :confusedshrug:

this thread is an insult to one of the greatest player to ever lace it up

[Rose'sACL]

Muthafvcka, did you ever see Magic play? I'm not talking YouTube highlights, I mean actually see him play?
you didn't watch MJ and you are his biggest stan along with don here.

[ThePhantomCreep]

There is not a single player I would take over LeBron.

LeBron these past 3 season is the GOAT player.

MJ d!cklickers can argue all they want, but let's be real, that era he played in was fvcking garbage. :oldlol:

Because beating the Paul George Pacers is such a difficult task...

Oh wait, it is for LeBron. 7 games! And he has a super-stacked team too.

[ThePhantomCreep]

if leobelisk is that great, why couldnt he carry cavs :confusedshrug:

Because the second they ran into a 50 win team they folded. When they weren't missing the playoffs, that is.

[VIntageNOvel]

Because beating the Paul George Pacers is such a difficult task...

Oh wait, it is for LeBron. 7 games! And he has a super-stacked team too.


but but but he go against roy freaking hibbert :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Rose'sACL]

Because beating the Paul George Pacers is such a difficult task...

Oh wait, it is for LeBron. 7 games! And he has a super-stacked team too.
why are you replying to a kobe fan?
Also, i do think that in a few years lebron will equal or pass magic. the only reason some people rank magic over bird is because of him playing better for longer. Bird was clearly the better player through their primes.
i am just amazed that so many so called "knowledgeable" posters don't care when someone says that "you'd be a fool to take lebron over magic" like it is not even close when it clearly is.

[VIntageNOvel]

even young and absolute beast MJ couldnt do shit in 80s, thats the goat era,
imagine if bran played in that era :roll: :roll:
without handcheck rule? bad boy piston?

he would try to team up with chuck and hakeem,
and still ended up as a career loser :roll:

keyword: competition

[Rose'sACL]

even young and absolute beast MJ couldnt do shit in 80s, thats the goat era,
imagine if bran played in that era :roll: :roll:
without handcheck rule? bad boy piston?

he would try to team up with chuck and hakeem,
and still ended up as a career loser :roll:

keyword: competition
wouldn't he take advantage of more contact on both ends given that he is very strong?
lebron has performed very well against pacers who are physical as compared to his performances against spurs and mavs in 11 who don't play that physically and are not as big or strong as indiana.

[Solefade]

sorry but mj's era ain't never seen anyone as big, strong and fast as lebron

[Milbuck]

sorry but mj's era ain't never seen anyone as big, strong and fast as lebron
It wasn't the 50s. If Boris ****ing Diaw can guard Lebron, I'm sure 2 of the GOAT perimeter defenders in MJ and Pippen could as well.

[sportjames23]

sorry but mj's era ain't never seen anyone as big, strong and fast as lebron


Never watched MJ's era, huh?

[sportjames23]

It wasn't the 50s. If Boris ****ing Diaw can guard Lebron, I'm sure 2 of the GOAT perimeter defenders in MJ and Pippen could as well.


Not to mention Lebron would run into the likes of Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, Otis Thorpe. All guys bigger than Lebron.

[Milbuck]

Not to mention Lebron would run into the likes of Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Charles Oakley, Anthony Mason, Otis Thorpe. All guys bigger than Lebron.
Until the Pacers' recent collapse, Hibbert had Lebron ****ing himself whenever he drove. But yeah, he'd totally dominate against guys like D-Rob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, etc in the post.

That post has me legitimately concerned. Is this the shit we're gonna have to deal with in 10 years with Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc?

"Sorry, but Kobe and Wade were small, mediocre athletes. Fringe all-stars in this era"

[The-Legend-24]

Because beating the Paul George Pacers is such a difficult task...

Oh wait, it is for LeBron. 7 games! And he has a super-stacked team too.
:oldlol: Last years Pacers were better than any team MJ faced in his title runs, by far.

[sportjames23]

Until the Pacers' recent collapse, Hibbert had Lebron ****ing himself whenever he drove. But yeah, he'd totally dominate against guys like D-Rob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, etc in the post.

That post has me legitimately concerned. Is this the shit we're gonna have to deal with in 10 years with Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc?

"Sorry, but Kobe and Wade were small, mediocre athletes. Fringe all-stars in this era"


Oh, yeah, that day is coming.

I look forward to it, too. Kobe stans talked mad shit about older players, now they're gettin it from Lebron stans.

Lebron stans gonna catch it one day, too. And I'ma laugh my ass off.

[sportjames23]

:oldlol: Last years Pacers were better than any team MJ faced in his title runs, by far.


One of the dumbest fvckin posts I've ever seen here. :facepalm

[aj1987]

Until the Pacers' recent collapse, Hibbert had Lebron ****ing himself whenever he drove. But yeah, he'd totally dominate against guys like D-Rob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, etc in the post.
Lol! Wut? LeBron absolutely DESTROYED the Pacers in '12; 30/11/6/3/1 on 57% TS and averaged 29/7/5/2/1 on 61% TS in '13.

Dude whines and bitches about contact, but he rarely shies away from it. There's a reason why he's shooting 57% from the field, this season and the last one, even though he's at only ~41% on jump shots.

Superstars are gonna be superstars in whatever era they are in.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Until the Pacers' recent collapse, Hibbert had Lebron ****ing himself whenever he drove. But yeah, he'd totally dominate against guys like D-Rob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, etc in the post.

That post has me legitimately concerned. Is this the shit we're gonna have to deal with in 10 years with Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc?

"Sorry, but Kobe and Wade were small, mediocre athletes. Fringe all-stars in this era"

Where the fvck do people keep getting this shit from about Lebron being scared of Hibbert? Is it because he doesn't dunk on him? Are people really that stupid nowadays? Go check Lebron's stats from his last series against the Pacers. I swear, kids these days :facepalm

[SHAQisGOAT]

How exactly is Magic a better player than Bron?

Some of you need to let go with this nostalgic BS and get with what reality is. Bird was a better player than Magic, and Bron has probably surpassed Bird's peak play in these last 2 or 3 years, hence Bron>Magic.

Both are all time great offensive players, while one is an average defender at best, and the other is an all time great defensive player. I'll take the guy who is great on both ends.

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/okHUg_79b6o283fiJLhSzA--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusncaabexperts/85829184.jpg


On the real, it's very close but Bird's peak-play gets the edge over Lebron's. Magic is also definitely up there.

[pauk]

Magic with simply his ballcontrol, size, vision/passing ability and IQ could control the game better than most players i ever seen, often WITHOUT even scoring, just a viciously intelligent decision maker exploiting his GOAT level offensive versatility (not just skills, but size, allowed him to damage from essentially all positions/roles). Lebron is kindof similar, a bit more scoring minded as he is a better scorer but he does more overall on both ends i would say..... both have proved more than enough how well their games translate to high magnitude/top 10/GOAT type of individual or team success at their peaks.... so its not absurd to pick Magic over Lebron (i wouldnt do that, but anyways)....

[Dro]

sorry but mj's era ain't never seen anyone as big, strong and fast as lebron
See, this is just nonsense...Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Moses Freaking Malone, the list goes on and on...Are they the same type of player as Lebron? No. Are they fast and big as hell, especially in their younger days? Of course. You ever seen Malone trucking down the lane for a finish? You think these soft players with their weak flopping is stopping that?

Hell, Lebron might not even want to run into Lasalle freaking Thompson...God young posters GET ON MY NERVES..THEY DON'T KNOW SH*T AND ACT LIKE THEY DO.

[Dro]

Until the Pacers' recent collapse, Hibbert had Lebron ****ing himself whenever he drove. But yeah, he'd totally dominate against guys like D-Rob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, etc in the post.

That post has me legitimately concerned. Is this the shit we're gonna have to deal with in 10 years with Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc?

"Sorry, but Kobe and Wade were small, mediocre athletes. Fringe all-stars in this era"
:lol Probably....:confusedshrug:

[IMObjective]

There is not a single player I would take over LeBron.

LeBron these past 3 season is the GOAT player.

MJ d!cklickers can argue all they want, but let's be real, that era he played in was fvcking garbage. :oldlol:
When you think about it it's pretty crazy how one miracle 3 point shot had such a huge impact on a player's legacy. Ray missed, the haters would have been clowning him all year as a beta choker, Ray hit it and his fans proclaim him the greatest player to ever live, even surpassing Jordan.

Personally, I think he has an argument as the greatest regular season player ever, but he's gonna need some more legendary playoff and finals performances to really be a mt Rushmore type player. He saw Jordan win 6 with a great team and thought it would be easy to win 7 since he now had a great team and since he considers himself better than Jordan. (I'll bet he does) not so easy is it? lol

Good luck this year Bron, win again and the haters will have a hard time denying your greatness. Though it is a bit unfair how much easier LeBron's trip to the finals will be compared to Durant's. But still, no easy feat winning 3 in a row.

[Dro]

When you think about it it's pretty crazy how one miracle 3 point shot had such a huge impact on a player's legacy. Ray missed, the haters would have been clowning him all year as a beta choker, Ray hit it and his fans proclaim him the greatest player to ever live, even surpassing Jordan.

Personally, I think he has an argument as the greatest regular season player ever, but he's gonna need some more legendary playoff and finals performances to really be a mt Rushmore type player. He saw Jordan win 6 with a great team and thought it would be easy to win 7 since he now had a great team and since he considers himself better than Jordan. (I'll bet he does) not so easy is it? lol

Good luck this year Bron, win again and the haters will have a hard time denying your greatness. Though it is a bit unfair how much easier LeBron's trip to the finals will be compared to Durant's. But still, no easy feat winning 3 in a row.
Say it again, I don't think they heard you...

[Marlo_Stanfield]

See, this is just nonsense...Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Moses Freaking Malone, the list goes on and on...Are they the same type of player as Lebron? No. Are they fast and big as hell, especially in their younger days? Of course. You ever seen Malone trucking down the lane for a finish? You think these soft players with their weak flopping is stopping that?

Hell, Lebron might not even want to run into Lasalle freaking Thompson...God young posters GET ON MY NERVES..THEY DON'T KNOW SH*T AND ACT LIKE THEY DO.
Lebron would Smack Malone out of position without breaking a sweat:applause:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Until the Pacers' recent collapse, Hibbert had Lebron ****ing himself whenever he drove. But yeah, he'd totally dominate against guys like D-Rob, Hakeem, Ewing, Zo, etc in the post.

That post has me legitimately concerned. Is this the shit we're gonna have to deal with in 10 years with Kobe, Wade, T-Mac, etc?

"Sorry, but Kobe and Wade were small, mediocre athletes. Fringe all-stars in this era"
you have always been on the edge but have you finally gone insane??
LeBron shat all over the Pacers for two straight yers putting up all time great numbers if you consider how god their defense is:applause: :applause:

[plowking]

It wasn't the 50s. If Boris ****ing Diaw can guard Lebron, I'm sure 2 of the GOAT perimeter defenders in MJ and Pippen could as well.

When did Boris Diaw ever do a good job on Lebron James? Serious question.

Dude got beat off the dribble about 10 times while he was guarding Bron, and had 4 players behind him all helping. Leonard did a shit job too.

The only one that bothered James was Danny Green and for some reason, Pop refused to play him on James for longer periods, which I'm glad, since he did a great job at denying most of the dribble penetration.

[riseagainst]

I think comparisons like this is what is overrating Lebron. His retarded stans is really killing Lebron for me....

[aj1987]

When you think about it it's pretty crazy how one miracle 3 point shot had such a huge impact on a player's legacy. Ray missed, the haters would have been clowning him all year as a beta choker, Ray hit it and his fans proclaim him the greatest player to ever live, even surpassing Jordan.
I'm not saying he's the greatest ever or anything, but the heck was that a lucky or a miracle shots? Dude is the GOAT 3 point shooter and it was an open corner 3.

If you honestly believe that Magic, Bird, MJ, etc. are on an entirely different level from LeBron, I pity you.


it would be easy to win 7 since he now had a great team and since he considers himself better than Jordan. (I'll bet he does) not so easy is it? lol
It would've been easy, if Wade didn't get injured these past 2 playoff runs and doesn't help that Bosh turned into a beta bitch.

[Dro]

I'm not saying he's the greatest ever or anything, but the heck was that a lucky or a miracle shots? Dude is the GOAT 3 point shooter and it was an open corner 3.

If you honestly believe that Magic, Bird, MJ, etc. are on an entirely different level from LeBron, I pity you.


It would've been easy, if Wade didn't get injured these past 2 playoff runs and doesn't help that Bosh turned into a beta bitch.
Yes, he's the goat 3 point shooter but he was not open. They got a lucky bounce, Bosh happened to grab it(great reaction) and make the pass to Ray Allen(again great awareness). Allen then backs up (again great awareness) and hits the 3. Everything happened so fast, I don't see how SA could have even reacted to it. And none of that had anything to do with Lebron. However, I know Lebron did make a big 3 before that so he deserves credit for that. He wouldn't have been deserved to be called a choker if Allen missed that shot because he did his part...

[aj1987]

Yes, he's the goat 3 point shooter but he was not open. They got a lucky bounce, Bosh happened to grab it(great reaction) and make the pass to Ray Allen(again great awareness). Allen then backs up (again great awareness) and hits the 3. Everything happened so fast, I don't see how SA could have even reacted to it. And none of that had anything to do with Lebron. However, I know Lebron did make a big 3 before that so he deserves credit for that. He wouldn't have been deserved to be called a choker if Allen missed that shot because he did his part...
He scored 16 points in the 4th on 7-10 shooting.

[TheMan]

See, this is just nonsense...Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Moses Freaking Malone, the list goes on and on...Are they the same type of player as Lebron? No. Are they fast and big as hell, especially in their younger days? Of course. You ever seen Malone trucking down the lane for a finish? You think these soft players with their weak flopping is stopping that?

Hell, Lebron might not even want to run into Lasalle freaking Thompson...God young posters GET ON MY NERVES..THEY DON'T KNOW SH*T AND ACT LIKE THEY DO.
When they post absolutely ignorant posts like that, I don't even bother with them and you shouldn't either. Let them wallow in their ignorance and just know that knowledgeable posters are facepalming and laughing at their stupidity:cheers:

Real NBA talk with those dumb youngsters is like talking geopolitics with a 3 year old:oldlol:

[TheMan]

you have always been on the edge but have you finally gone insane??
LeBron shat all over the Pacers for two straight yers putting up all time great numbers if you consider how god their defense is:applause: :applause:
All of a sudden these Pacers are now on the 86 Celtics level according to these dickheads:oldlol: :roll:

Hint, the Pacers are garbage, THEY CAN'T SCORE:oldlol: They are only considered "good" because of the overall garbage quality of the EC, stick them in the West and they are an 6-8th seed. Get a clue, moron.

[Cold soul]

OP you weren't even alive during Magic Johnson time. There's no way of knowing. Anyway it's Magic over Lebron and it's not even close...

[annbafan]

OP you weren't even alive during Magic Johnson time. There's no way of knowing.

There are tons of footage on the internet, detailed stats of any possible kind, it's easier to be knowledgeable about some player right now than it used to be back when Magic was playing.

[Solefade]

See, this is just nonsense...Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Moses Freaking Malone, the list goes on and on...Are they the same type of player as Lebron? No. Are they fast and big as hell, especially in their younger days? Of course. You ever seen Malone trucking down the lane for a finish? You think these soft players with their weak flopping is stopping that?

Hell, Lebron might not even want to run into Lasalle freaking Thompson...God young posters GET ON MY NERVES..THEY DON'T KNOW SH*T AND ACT LIKE THEY DO.


karl malone was as big as lebron but he's definitely not as fast and his skill set isn't even in the same vicinity...and barkley was 6'5/6'6....

[ThePhantomCreep]

I'm not saying he's the greatest ever or anything, but the heck was that a lucky or a miracle shots? Dude is the GOAT 3 point shooter and it was an open corner 3.

If you honestly believe that Magic, Bird, MJ, etc. are on an entirely different level from LeBron, I pity you.


It would've been easy, if Wade didn't get injured these past 2 playoff runs and doesn't help that Bosh turned into a beta bitch.

Which ironically would have hurt LeBron's legacy even more. It actually helped him that Miami hasn't been able cruise to easy titles, even though that was the whole point of the lame-as-hell "Decision". LeBron's team is still quite stacked relative to his era. When your "clutch role-player" is fricken Ray Allen and not John Paxson, Steve Kerr or Derek Fisher, you have the deck firmly stacked in your favor.

[crisoner]

Magic all day

[The-Legend-24]

All of a sudden these Pacers are now on the 86 Celtics level according to these dickheads:oldlol: :roll:

Hint, the Pacers are garbage, THEY CAN'T SCORE:oldlol: They are only considered "good" because of the overall garbage quality of the EC, stick them in the West and they are an 6-8th seed. Get a clue, moron.
They are. Take those damn nostalgia glasses off fakkit.

[russwest0]

They are. Take those damn nostalgia glasses off fakkit.


They are. Take those damn nostalgia


They are.

:lebronamazed:

[riseagainst]

They are. Take those damn nostalgia glasses off fakkit.

:lol

[ThePhantomCreep]

Lol @ these nutsucklers bragging about LeBron owning the world-beating Hibbert/George Pacers. Reminds me of how they'd soil their panties every time LeBron dropped 40 on the Washington Wizards in the playoffs. You're only embarrassing yourselves with this talk .

[SHAQisGOAT]

They are. Take those damn nostalgia glasses off fakkit.

:facepalm
You're a sad individual

[moe94]

I love how people act like it's crazy to suggest LeBron is a better player. Magic is hilariously overrated if you can't even have a reasonable discussion.

[TheReal Kendall]

I love how people act like it's crazy to suggest LeBron is a better player. Magic is hilariously overrated if you can't even have a reasonable discussion.

Seriously, they acting like Magic is levels above Lebron

[TheMarkMadsen]

They are. Take those damn nostalgia glasses off fakkit.

instant ban?

[moe94]

Seriously, they acting like Magic is levels above Lebron

They don't call him Magic for nothing!

:rolleyes:

[Replay32]

Magic > Lebron

[INDI]

Magic is a beast, but honestly I'd take Lebron. I might be underrating Magic though.

Imagine if we had a 6'9 excellent PG in the league right now. He pushed the fast break, greatest passer and flashiest, posting up every PG in the league, walking triple double, at one point played all 5 positions for his team, won Mvps, and championships as the best player etc...

oh and not to mention a fierce competitor that came up big in clutch situations and did it with a big smile

We would barely have time to talk about lebron or Durant because we would be fascinated on a nightly basis by the man known as Magic.




Seriously don't think about him in the 80's think of him in today's game with a way flashier ball handle for style ( his dribble and mechanics would be a lot more up to date). That would absolutely be my favorite player in the game if we had something like that. Basketball fans in the 80's were lucky to have that

[Mr. Jabbar]

I'd take Lebron over Magic Johnson in an instant.

and that's why you're banned

[Railgun]

and that's why you're banned
nah

[Mr. Jabbar]

nah

jameer :facepalm

[aj1987]

Which ironically would have hurt LeBron's legacy even more. It actually helped him that Miami hasn't been able cruise to easy titles, even though that was the whole point of the lame-as-hell "Decision". LeBron's team is still quite stacked relative to his era. When your "clutch role-player" is fricken Ray Allen and not John Paxson, Steve Kerr or Derek Fisher, you have the deck firmly stacked in your favor.
You do realize that Ray Allen is 38 and is horrible defensively, right? He shot 42% from 3 on 4 3's a game last season, which is pretty good, but is shooting only 37% on 4 3's a game this season.

:facepalm

Stop looking at the names and try to watch a game or two. Look at how each player is producing. According to your logic, last year, the Lakers had a multiple time DPOY, a DPOY, a top 10 GOAT, a top 5 GOAT PG, a solid HOF PF, another great perimeter defender and a DPOY, and a multiple time All-Star and 6th man of the year. They were stacked on names alone.


instant ban?
Yes. One less Kobetard around is always a good thing.

[VIntageNOvel]

You do realize that Ray Allen is 38 and is horrible defensively, right? He shot 42% from 3 on 4 3's a game last season, which is pretty good, but is shooting only 37% on 4 3's a game this season.

:facepalm

Stop looking at the names and try to watch a game or two. Look at how each player is producing. According to your logic, last year, the Lakers had a multiple time DPOY, a DPOY, a top 10 GOAT, a top 5 GOAT PG, a solid HOF PF, another great perimeter defender and a DPOY, and a multiple time All-Star and 6th man of the year. They were stacked on names alone.


Yes. One less Kobetard around is always a good thing.

37% from three is now bad :biggums:

[Rose'sACL]

37% from three is now bad :biggums:
when that is your only role and when you're bad defensively then yes, it is not good.

[VIntageNOvel]

when that is your only role and when you're bad defensively then yes, it is not good.


37% from three is like shooting 55% FG from 2, its good

harden is worse defensively, shooting lower efficiency, and he's top 10 player

again, like some other said, ray role is that he supposed to hit clutch shot, and hes godamn good at it, compare him to his peer: d fisher, allen is obviously better and contribute more, for a role player, he's one of the best

[Rose'sACL]

37% from three is like shooting 55% FG from 2, its good

harden is worse defensively, shooting lower efficiency, and he's top 10 player

again, like some other said, ray role is he supposed to hit clutch shot, and hes godamn good at it, compare him to his peer: d fisher, allen is obviously better and contribute more
it is not like that. that is his only role these days and he is supposed to do it on 40+% give that he doesn't have to create his shots. Curry shooting 37% would be impressive because he takes a lot of them and creates most of them. he has to make up for his defensive deficiencies by being an elite catch and shoot role player which means shooting 40+% from three.

[VIntageNOvel]

it is not like that. that is his only role these days and he is supposed to do it on 40+% give that he doesn't have to create his shots. Curry shooting 37% would be impressive because he takes a lot of them and creates most of them. he has to make up for his defensive deficiencies by being an elite catch and shoot role player which means shooting 40+% from three.

ehmm it would be interesting if we can compare it to his peer (not curry or even korver of course, but real role player),

i mean like fisher, or novak

how many minutes played, stat etc

[Kovach]

Lebron would Smack Malone out of position without breaking a sweat:applause:
They weren't talking about Jeff Malone.

[KingBeasley08]

Agreed. Magic was garbage defensively and had an even better big 3 than Lebron

[Dro]

Agreed. Magic was garbage defensively and had an even better big 3 than Lebron
complete myth....its like you didnt read the first few pages...

[LAZERUSS]

Agreed. Magic was garbage defensively and had an even better big 3 than Lebron

Who were their "Big-3" in 90-91, when Magic carried them to a 58-24 record, and a trip to the Finals, in his LAST fulltime season?

BTW, Magic had a better career W-L record, withOUT Kareem, than with Kareem. KAJ certainly can't make the same claim, though.

[moe94]

complete myth....its like you didnt read the first few pages...

You're right. Magic Johnson was a great defensive player and the best offensive player of all time. He's probably a deity, too. Caught HIV to seem mortal. What a legend.

[IMObjective]

You're right. Magic Johnson was a great defensive player and the best offensive player of all time. He's probably a deity, too. Caught HIV to seem mortal. What a legend.
Yup

[Dro]

You're right. Magic Johnson was a great defensive player and the best offensive player of all time. He's probably a deity, too. Caught HIV to seem mortal. What a legend.
Exactly...