Another season, another Kevin Love missed playoff appearance

[Cone]

When will people stop overrating this stat-padder? Top 10 player my ass...

Meanwhile 36 year-old Dirk is leading his teams to 50 win seasons with a worse supporting cast.

Anthony Davis injury filled team (2 of the 3 best players out for season since January) almost with identical records.

LMA and BG may both have HCA in the playoffs.

So when will the overrating stop? Maybe he will be best served as a #2 or #3 option on a contender?

[game3524]

Not an impactful player at all.

[WallIn]

That game where he choked 3 FTs in a row in the deciding moments is the definition why Timberwolves fail this season. They've blown like 15 close games

[HomieWeMajor]

Moses Malone stat-padded but he still won. Kevin Love needs to learn how to do this. Maybe work with Moses this off season ?

[game3524]

He reminds me of Elton Brand. A guy who will put up great bulk stats/advance stats, but really doesn't have an effect on wins/losses.

He is a number 2 or 3 on a great team.

[WallIn]

He reminds me of Elton Brand. A guy who will put up great bulk stats/advance stats, but really doesn't have an effect on wins/losses.

He is a number 2 or 3 on a great team.


Brand still carried Clippers to a greater success than Love :confusedshrug:

[Cone]

He reminds me of Elton Brand. A guy who will put up great bulk stats/advance stats, but really doesn't have an effect on wins/losses.

He is a number 2 or 3 on a great team.

What team you think would be good for him? Chicago?

[TheMarkMadsen]

When will people stop overrating this stat-padder? Top 10 player my ass...

Meanwhile 36 year-old Dirk is leading his teams to 50 win seasons with a worse supporting cast.

Anthony Davis injury filled team (2 of the 3 best players out for season since January) almost with identical records.

LMA and BG may both have HCA in the playoffs.

So when will the overrating stop? Maybe he will be best served as a #2 or #3 option on a contender?

:roll: :roll:

[Smook A.]

The Wolves have alot of talent on their team and they also have one of best coaches in the league. I don't understand how they dont win more games...

[game3524]

What team you think would be good for him? Chicago?

Yeah, Chicago would be perfect for him. It would never happen, but I think he would fit in well on the Spurs.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think we can give Love a pass, but his team has been dreadful without him on the court this year.

With Love? +6.4 points per 100 possessions

Without Love? -5.9 points per 100 possessions


Frame of reference;

With Durant? +8.4
Without Durant? +2.4

These numbers aren't perfect and there is noise in them, but we can't ignore the fact that the Wolves just crumble when Love leaves the court...while a team like the Thunder actually still outscore the opponent when Durant leaves.

Give Love a +2.4 bench differential while he's resting and he Wolves might have won 50 games.

[TheMarkMadsen]

The Wolves have alot of talent on their team and they also have one of best coaches in the league. I don't understand how they dont win more games...

:biggums:

a center who missed nearly 30 games

a one dimensional scorer who does absolutly nothing else

a point guard who can't score or shoot

their bench is terrible

[VIP2000]

A starting lineup of Goran Dragic, Channing Frye, Bledsoe/Gerald Green, PJ Tucker, and Miles Plumlee has a better record than the Wolves.

Only Dragic and Bledsoe (who was injured for half the year) would actually be STARTERS on the Wolves.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:roll: :roll:
Whats wrong w/ what he said:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:
Monta is better than KMart
Pekovic is way better than any big support Dirk has and Pekovic is better than Monta too
Corey Brewer is better than 40yo Marion
Rubio is much better than Calderon
Wolves have better starting support:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Bench VC is better than Budinger
Dieng is better than Blair
Barea and Devin Harris are a wash
Moutes better than Ellington
Wright is better than Cunningham:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[qrich]

He reminds me of Elton Brand. A guy who will put up great bulk stats/advance stats, but really doesn't have an effect on wins/losses.

He is a number 2 or 3 on a great team.

Brand was great on BOTH sides of the court. One of the best two way PFs of the entire 2000s. Love is effective on one side really.

Plus, Brand played with a slashing ballhog for his entire prime and actually led the Clippers to ONE mental mistake from the Western Finals. He also never had the Clippers winning in the teens...on back to back year.s

[SCdac]

While his lack of D and tendency to play like a SG bothers me, his production pretty much increases all around in the 39 wins (scoring, assisting, rebounding, FG%, 3-pt %...). Saw him play live this year at SA though and not fond of his game outside of hustling and rebounding. Rubio can't make a shot for shit though and Minnesota is certainly comparable to Dallas' roster when considering the collective experience of Marion, Calderon, Ellis, Dalembert, etc.

[Random_Guy]

He reminds me of Elton Brand. A guy who will put up great bulk stats/advance stats, but really doesn't have an effect on wins/losses.

He is a number 2 or 3 on a great team.
nobody ever thought elton brand was a top 10 player doe

[FLDFSU]

The Wolves have alot of talent on their team and they also have one of best coaches in the league. I don't understand how they dont win more games...


:lol Yet Marc Jackson needs to be fired :facepalm

[senelcoolidge]

Love is a terrific offensive player but he's such a liability on defense that's it's sad. He would be a great 2nd or 3rd option and I think it will end up being that way eventually.

[Rooster]

I don't think we can give Love a pass, but his team has been dreadful without him on the court this year.

With Love? +6.4 points per 100 possessions

Without Love? -5.9 points per 100 possessions


Frame of reference;

With Durant? +8.4
Without Durant? +2.4

These numbers aren't perfect and there is noise in them, but we can't ignore the fact that the Wolves just crumble when Love leaves the court...while a team like the Thunder actually still outscore the opponent when Durant leaves.

Give Love a +2.4 bench differential while he's resting and he Wolves might have won 50 games.

Of course Wolves would be worse without him or any team that is without their best player but the reality is Love just don't have that impact that his numbers suggests especially for a big men.

[mr.big35]

He will make it to the playoffs next season. you guys will see how good he is.

[Rooster]

Love is a terrific offensive player but he's such a liability on defense that's it's sad. He would be a great 2nd or 3rd option and I think it will end up being that way eventually.

He can't anchor any team defensively but if you put him beside someone like Asik, you can minimize his weakness. He's been that way sincehis college days. I knew he would have problem in the NBA when coach is putting Mata for the defensive switch at the end of close games.

[DMAVS41]

Of course Wolves would be worse without him or any team that is without their best player but the reality is Love just don't have that impact that his numbers suggests especially for a big men.

Well, yea, but it matters how worse.

The Wolves get 12.5 points worse
The Thunder get 6 points worse

That difference is actually important.

I totally agree Love is not as good as his numbers indicate, but also...just a box score doesn't tell you enough anyway. Love's clutch play has been shit this year...or at least it was...as was the team's. That matters a lot in close games obviously...and the numbers suggest that.

I would bet that if you went only off all the stats...Love would be properly rated.

My point is that while he should have made a run at the playoffs with that team...we can't ignore that his help got run off the court every time Love went to the bench this year.

And if you gave even a stud like Durant a team that had a minus 6 point scoring differential without him...you'd just see a difference in win totals....especially because Love doesn't even have a star to make the bench play less important.

[ZenMaster]

The Wolves have alot of talent on their team and they also have one of best coaches in the league. I don't understand how they dont win more games...

They've lost a lot of close games, most of those games wouldn't have been close if the bench wasn't close to worst in the league.

Getting a good help defender for the center postition instead of Pekovic would also help IMO.

Maybe they'll throw a little bit of money at Nick Young this summer.

[aburre21]

people are saying Kyrie isn't great because he couldn't get to the playoffs in his third season so I don't see why Kevin Love not getting to the playoffs in his 6th season doesn't drop his stock

[Rooster]

Well, yea, but it matters how worse.

The Wolves get 12.5 points worse
The Thunder get 6 points worse

That difference is actually important.

I totally agree Love is not as good as his numbers indicate, but also...just a box score doesn't tell you enough anyway. Love's clutch play has been shit this year...or at least it was...as was the team's. That matters a lot in close games obviously...and the numbers suggest that.

I would bet that if you went only off all the stats...Love would be properly rated.

My point is that while he should have made a run at the playoffs with that team...we can't ignore that his help got run off the court every time Love went to the bench this year.

And if you gave even a stud like Durant a team that had a minus 6 point scoring differential without him...you'd just see a difference in win totals....especially because Love doesn't even have a star to make the bench play less important.

The fact that Love has not been to playoff for so long justified the means. I am not looking at KG numbers right now but I would think Love is putting better stats but less impact.

[Droid101]

Missed playoffs due to geography.

What a choker!

[ABfor3]

Idk but Gorgui Dieng might be the savior of the Timberwolves franchise

[DMAVS41]

Of course Wolves would be worse without him or any team that is without their best player but the reality is Love just don't have that impact that his numbers suggests especially for a big men.

But you are only looking at offensive and rebounding stats.

Why not defensive stats?

I get a little tired of people saying "stats" like it only applies to ppg/rpg/asp

We can look at so much.

Want to know why KG was better than Love?

Easy...he dramatically improved the defense of his team over the course of his career. And was no slouch either offensively.

Look at defensive on/off or even way better defensive rapm and you'll see why the stats show KG to be the far superior player.

Way more than that should go into things, but it's pretty obvious solely looking at the big picture of the stats that KG is better than Love.

[Upgrayedd]

Love to Chicago next season.

C: Noah
PF: Love
SF: Snell
SG: Butler
PG: Rose

:bowdown:

[SHABBA]

Love to Chicago next season.

C: Noah
PF: Love
SF: Snell
SG: Butler
PG: Rose

:bowdown:
Snell :coleman:

[Meticode]

Whats wrong w/ what he said:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:
Monta is better than KMart
Pekovic is way better than any big support Dirk has and Pekovic is better than Monta too
Corey Brewer is better than 40yo Marion
Rubio is much better than Calderon
Wolves have better starting support:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Bench VC is better than Budinger
Dieng is better than Blair
Barea and Devin Harris are a wash
Moutes better than Ellington
Wright is better than Cunningham:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:
I'll take Calderon, he runs the PG position solid and he isn't an offensive liability like Rubio is. Dude is shooting 37% from the field for his career now. That's just crazy inefficient. Also Jose has always been one of the best in the league with assist to turnover ratio.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Is it weird that I hate Love but want to see him on the Spurs?

[AnaheimLakers24]

just the type of loser kobe can help

[Rooster]

But you are only looking at offensive and rebounding stats.

Why not defensive stats?

I get a little tired of people saying "stats" like it only applies to ppg/rpg/asp

We can look at so much.

Want to know why KG was better than Love?

Easy...he dramatically improved the defense of his team over the course of his career. And was no slouch either offensively.

Look at defensive on/off or even way better defensive rapm and you'll see why the stats show KG to be the far superior player.

Way more than that should go into things, but it's pretty obvious solely looking at the big picture of the stats that KG is better than Love.

So you like to use PER to suit your opinion. And you get tired of people using offensive stats. Hmmmm.

[BlackVVaves]

Hold up, did Hamtaro CP3KDKG really say Rubio is better than Calderon :biggums:

Talk about attributing unwarranted value to a player based on name recognition.

[Buzissa]

They've lost a lot of close games, most of those games wouldn't have been close if the bench wasn't close to worst in the league.

Getting a good help defender for the center postition instead of Pekovic would also help IMO.

Maybe they'll throw a little bit of money at Nick Young this summer.

I agree about Pekovic.
But please don't sign Nick Young. Seriously, we already have enough chuckers as it is:
- Barea completely ruins the team's offense when he's not making shots. Specially because he is the leader of the second unit (2nd quarter).
- Shved is completely disappointing. He obviously can handle the ball and make plays, but it hasn't been the case. He probably has the worst body language in the league.
- Shabazz is really easy to figure out. That spin for a baby hook with the left hand in the post is his only move. Shaky handles too. Anyway, Adelman should have used him more.
- D-Will was also a chucker, so getting rid of him was definitely a good move.

Then the other guys can't contribute much: Budinger had two disappointing seasons (injury-plagued, but still), Turiaf was also injured for half of the season, Mbah-a-Moute is just an energy guy.
So anybody arguing that Kevin Love has a good supporting cast is wrong. I would probably keep 5 or 6 players of the current roster.
Still, the Wolves are at .500, which is an okay record, just not enough for the Playoffs in the West.

The only silver lining of this season might be Dieng.

[houston]

love overrated

[DMAVS41]

So you like to use PER to suit your opinion. And you get tired of people using offensive stats. Hmmmm.

What?

[TMT]

Can't really blame him. I saw the Magic play the T-Wolves a couple weeks ago without Love and they are just dreadful. Seeing him join Noah and Melo in Chicago would be damn interesting.

[chazzy]

They play in a great conference. Can't deny that he put up amazing numbers as usual - 26/12.4/4.4 59 TS%. Wolves had the 9th offense and 12th defense and they lost 12 games by 4 or less, 18 by 7 or less.. bad luck or poor clutch play?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

There's no such thing as efficiently "stat padding".


So this thread is a joke.
says da harden tan.
news flash, harden isn top 10 either

[sbw19]

They play in a great conference. Can't deny that he put up amazing numbers as usual - 26/12.4/4.4 59 TS%. Wolves had the 9th offense and 12th defense and they lost 12 games by 4 or less, 18 by 7 or less.. bad luck or poor clutch play?

Playcalling and Kevin Love's lack of a high-percentage go-to move. He doesn't have a midrange game, and his reliance on the 3 (35% of his shot attempts) is killing his game. Post more or develop your midrange game, and ditch those low % 20ft+ shot attempts unless you absolutely have to.

[K Xerxes]

So how many of you have actually ever played legit ball in your life? The emphasis many of you put on one person when the surrounding cast is awful is absurd.

You can say empty stats all you want, but 2 points is 2 points on the board whatever stage of the game it is. It doesn't go up to 4 points if you score in the final minute. You can say he chokes in the clutch, but without his ~26 points beforehand, they wouldn't be in any position to compete the game.

Now, the flaw in his game is defense, and that is definitely an aspect he needs to improve on. But combined scoring and rebounding, no one even comes close to him. The 'empty stats' you people harp on about is more to do with the failure of his team mates than himself.

He is without question a top 10 player, arguably top 5. When you compare him to the likes of Durant and James, bring up his defensive and clutch failures, but he is very much comparable to the rest of the elite players in the league.

[aburre21]

So how many of you have actually ever played legit ball in your life? The emphasis many of you put on one person when the surrounding cast is awful is absurd.

You can say empty stats all you want, but 2 points is 2 points on the board whatever stage of the game it is. It doesn't go up to 4 points if you score in the final minute. You can say he chokes in the clutch, but without his ~26 points beforehand, they wouldn't be in any position to compete the game.

Now, the flaw in his game is defense, and that is definitely an aspect he needs to improve on. But combined scoring and rebounding, no one even comes close to him. The 'empty stats' you people harp on about is more to do with the failure of his team mates than himself.

He is without question a top 10 player, arguably top 5. When you compare him to the likes of Durant and James, bring up his defensive and clutch failures, but he is very much comparable to the rest of the elite players in the league.


I get what you're saying...but if LeBron didn't make the playoffs the first six years of his career what do you think people would have said?

[sammichoffate]

I get what you're saying...but if LeBron didn't make the playoffs the first six years of his career what do you think people would have said?Bust? :lol

[andremiller07]

The Timberwolves need to package Pekovic and Rubio and get some talent that fits Love. Dieng is a great fit (Jordan Hill/Taj Gibson would be epic next to Love or even take a chance on Sanders) once he gets a bit stronger, while Pekovic is a beast he's not a good defender as far as helping/rotating like say Marc Gasol. Love and Pekovic won't work long term cause the defence is just shit.

Ricky Rubio is straight up ****ing trash, he got raped by the Kings 2nd round pick Ray Mac and Isaiah Thomas, the dude is a one trick pony and players now just read his passes so easily cause they know he won't look to score. This guy is so average it's not even funny honestly I would take Jeremy Lin over him.

If I'm the Twolves no way you re-sign Bricky imo waste of money go after a two way PG (Kyle Lowry) and trade Pekovic for a starting SF (move Brewer to the bench) that way you have a great wing trio of Brewer/Martin/starting SF.

The other major issue with the Love/Rubio/Pekovic combo is all are extremely injury prone which does not help.

[Yankstar]

I remember when people thought Love > Griffin when he stat padded hard at the start of the season.:facepalm

Must of took some lessions from bran in the off season :hammerhead:

[R.I.P.]

I'll take Calderon, he runs the PG position solid and he isn't an offensive liability like Rubio is. Dude is shooting 37% from the field for his career now. That's just crazy inefficient. Also Jose has always been one of the best in the league with assist to turnover ratio.

Ricky Rubio is statistically one of the ten best defensive guards in the league. If Calderon played in front of Love the Wolves would give up 200 points per game. There is a reason Calderon was benched for the whole second half of the Phoenix game.

[andremiller07]

Ricky Rubio is statistically one of the ten best defensive guards in the league. If Calderon played in front of Love the Wolves would give up 200 points per game. There is a reason Calderon was benched for the whole second half of the Phoenix game.
Yeah statistically he might be, but in reality he's not, he's great in fantasy basketball but in real life nah he's really overrated as a defender he's slightly above average at best. On top of that no PG gets worn out playing him cause they don't bother guarding him so they have more energy to destory the Wolves defence.

Give Nick Calathas similar playing time to Rubio he will put up similar numbers and impact with better floor spacing. Nick Calathes as a starter (7 games) 35mins per game 14.7ppg on 51% shooting 5 assists (Memphis got way less scoring weapons and play a slower pace) and 2.6spg 40% 3point and 4.7rpg

[AlphaWolf24]

love overrated


Post season is Overrated...KLove's stats are amazing.

Victim of circumstances...

If he was In the east he is in.

If he was in another dimension...He possibly is the GOAT

[mr.big35]

why hate on a man named love

[DirkNowitzki41]

i agree. he isnt top 10. dude is overrated

[SCdac]

it's crazy to see how much his 3-point attempts per game have jumped in the last 5 years. He's not a poor shooter at all, but what do Timberwolves fans think of this shot selection/offense?

0.2 (rookie) ---> 1.8 ---> 2.9 ---> 5.1 ---> 5.1 ---> 6.5 (currently)

Can't think of any other 6'10 big men who've increased their three's that much in a relatively short span... Horry's three's increased from his rookie year but was always kind of a pf/sf hybrid. Antawn Jamison started shooting 4-5+ in his late 20's once joining the Wizards. Dirk was always a shooter with range and he attempted more as he played more/took on more responsibility.

[DMAVS41]

it's crazy to see how much his 3-point attempts per game have jumped in the last 5 years. He's not a poor shooter at all, but what do Timberwolves fans think of this shot selection/offense?

0.2 (rookie) ---> 1.8 ---> 2.9 ---> 5.1 ---> 5.1 ---> 6.5 (currently)

Can't think of any other 6'10 big men who've increased their three's that much in a relatively short span... Horry's three's increased from his rookie year but was always kind of a pf/sf hybrid. Antawn Jamison started shooting 4-5+ in his late 20's once joining the Wizards. Dirk was always a shooter with range and he attempted more as he played more/took on more responsibility.

not really with Dirk...he obviously took more as he entered into his prime, but that is just minutes played really. Dirk took his most 3's from 01 through 03 when the Mavs were playing straight up run and gun and it just made sense to have him at the 3 point line given those teams. Over those 3 years Dirk averaged 4.7 threes a game.

The remaining years of his career Dirk has shot 3.2 threes per game...and he's actually take the most threes per game this year since the 02 season I believe. Which also makes sense as he's old and he's getting better looks at distance with a guy like Ellis making defenses shift over way more than guys like Terry or OJ Mayo did...

From 04 through the present, Dirk has averaged 2.8 attempted 3's per game. so it's actually the opposite of what you say....as Dirk took on more responsibility...he actually took less threes.

[LoneyROY7]

Post season is Overrated...KLove's stats are amazing.

Victim of circumstances...

If he was In the east he is in.

If he was in another dimension...He possibly is the GOAT

:lol

Yeah, winning is really overrated. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[SCdac]

not really with Dirk...he obviously took more as he entered into his prime, but that is just minutes played really. Dirk took his most 3's from 01 through 03 when the Mavs were playing straight up run and gun and it just made sense to have him at the 3 point line given those teams. Over those 3 years Dirk averaged 4.7 threes a game.

The remaining years of his career Dirk has shot 3.2 threes per game...and he's actually take the most threes per game this year since the 02 season I believe. Which also makes sense as he's old and he's getting better looks at distance with a guy like Ellis making defenses shift over way more than guys like Terry or OJ Mayo did...

I've always liked that Dirk toned down his 3's after those Nellie years. Not only do I think it was a natural progression, as his game closer to the basket got better and he got physically/mentally tougher, but it's good for the team as it's higher % shots in my opinion and have a higher chance of getting your own miss. Not eliminate threes altogether, just tone em down. In that 06 series against SA he shot only 1 three a game (on average) yet he was killer. In his championship run he was shooting 2-3 threes a game in the playoffs, which for him seems normal amount and appropriate to keep the defense on edge/drag his defender out. But certainly it's possible to take too many three's (6+ is alot) and when I watch Love, and also Harden, I get that feeling some times. But, I don't watch a ton of Timberwolves games (seen em live a few times though), so I can't judge how it fits into or doesn't fit into the offense.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I don't think we can give Love a pass, but his team has been dreadful without him on the court this year.

With Love? +6.4 points per 100 possessions

Without Love? -5.9 points per 100 possessions


Frame of reference;

With Durant? +8.4
Without Durant? +2.4

These numbers aren't perfect and there is noise in them, but we can't ignore the fact that the Wolves just crumble when Love leaves the court...while a team like the Thunder actually still outscore the opponent when Durant leaves.

Give Love a +2.4 bench differential while he's resting and he Wolves might have won 50 games.

This

[DMAVS41]

I've always liked that Dirk toned down his 3's after those Nellie years. Not only do I think it was a natural progression, as his game closer to the basket got better and he got physically/mentally tougher, but it's good for the team as it's higher % shots in my opinion and have a higher chance of getting your own miss. Not eliminate threes altogether, just tone em down. In that 06 series against SA he shot only 1 three a game (on average) yet he was killer. In his championship run he was shooting 2-3 threes a game in the playoffs, which for him seems normal amount and appropriate to keep the defense on edge/drag his defender out. But certainly it's possible to take too many three's (6+ is alot) and when I watch Love, and also Harden, I get that feeling some times. But, I don't watch a ton of Timberwolves games (seen em live a few times though), so I can't judge how it fits into or doesn't fit into the offense.

Oh absolutely. I was just pointing out that Dirk shot those threes on run and gun teams that actually needed him to do that. It made sense and was best for the team. It wouldn't have made as much sense to cut those out and post up more given the kind of team the Mavs were from 01 through 03.

Take a look at Dirk's playoff threes per game...he took 2.5 threes per game in 41 mpg from 04 through present.

Love is obviously taking too many threes given his team even though they play at a fast pace. 6.5 is just too many and he hasn't developed his mid range or post game the way he should have...and that is in part the reason why the Wolves suck so much in close games. It's not at repeatable to get good shots from 3 late as teams aren't going to lose their defensive principles as often and are going to lock in a bit more.

6.5 is just way too many per game currently.