should a successful charge count as a steal?

[Brizzly]

:confusedshrug:

[LosBulls]

I think it should.

Also how about hockey assists counting as .5 assists?

[fpliii]

Probably not, because a steal is a live-ball turnover (so they can start fast breaks), a charge is a dead-ball turnover. Charges should be in the box score, though.

[Brizzly]

I think it should.

Also how about hockey assists counting as .5 assists?

No, however I think they should start to track that as a separate stat.

[Brizzly]

Probably not, because a steal is a live-ball turnover (so they can start fast breaks), a charge is a dead-ball turnover. Charges should be in the box score, though.

Good point. A charge/failed charge % would be nice.

[Akrazotile]

Probably not, because a steal is a live-ball turnover (so they can start fast breaks), a charge is a dead-ball turnover. Charges should be in the box score, though.

They don't make distinctions among blocks based on whether it causes a turnover or just an inbound, or even goes right back to the other team in play. So I don't think that logic should apply to the steals category.

I'd personally support charges being included as steals. It's an automatic change of possession every time. That makes it statistically more valuable than a block. Why not track it as a mainstream stat (by including it within 'steals')?

[fpliii]

They don't make distinctions among blocks based on whether it causes a turnover or just an inbound, or even goes right back to the other team in play. So I don't think that logic should apply to the steals category.

I'd personally support charges being included as steals. It's an automatic change of possession every time. That makes it statistically more valuable than a block. Why not track it as a mainstream stat (by including it within 'steals')?
A block is a different type of event though. :confusedshrug: It's just a forced missed FGA which may or may not be rebounded by either team.

[Akrazotile]

A block is a different type of event though. :confusedshrug: It's just a forced missed FGA which may or may not be rebounded by either team.


So what's the point of including blocks as one of the "main" stats? Why not just count it as a missed FGA for the opponent? I mean it doesn't tell you whether or not the possession actually ended with a basket or not.

I'm just saying that if we include something as uninformative as 'blocks' as a main stat, then why would we nit-pick about charges not allowing fast breaks? It's a direct turn of possession caused by a specific player's defensive effort. Rather than add yet another separate category to the stat sheet, I'd just as soon include it with blocks, and help get a better cumulative picture of which players force turnovers effectively.

[Nuff Said]

So what's the point of including blocks as one of the "main" stats? Why not just count it as a missed FGA for the opponent? I mean it doesn't tell you whether or not the possession actually ended with a basket or not.

I'm just saying that if we include something as uninformative as 'blocks' as a main stat, then why would we nit-pick about charges not allowing fast breaks? It's a direct turn of possession caused by a specific player's defensive effort. Rather than add yet another separate category to the stat sheet, I'd just as soon include it with blocks, and help get a better cumulative picture of which players force turnovers effectively.

Bitch you're dumb as **** or trolling. A steal is a specific event. If charges were tracked it would be a completely different stat. It is not a steal I'm any way. It's a forced turnover, however, which is not the definition of a steal. A charge and a steal are two different things. I'm sure an elementary school student can understand the difference and needs no further explanation. Why do you?

[JohnFreeman]

nah

[Smoke117]

No. I can't really support any reason for it, but just for kicks if it did...then it would be Pippen who would by far have the unbeatable steals record and not Stockton. With all the balls Pippen jacked through his career (which equates to 2spg more or less for his entire career), and all the charges he took throughout his career...he'd have averaged 3-4 steals almost every single year he was on the bulls and 2-3 on the Blazers if they they both equated to a steal.

[Budadiiii]

Bitch you're dumb as **** or trolling. A steal is a specific event. If charges were tracked it would be a completely different stat. It is not a steal I'm any way. It's a forced turnover, however, which is not the definition of a steal. A charge and a steal are two different things. I'm sure an elementary school student can understand the difference and needs no further explanation. Why do you?
Ok let's come up with a 'Forced turnover' stat where it accounts for steals, blocks that result in turnover, and charges.

[B4llin]

Ok let's come up with a 'Forced turnover' stat where it accounts for steals, blocks that result in turnover, and charges.


If you're serious about this all you have to do is create a website and start tracking it. Could catch on eventually if you have enough people checking it out.

Time consuming though :D

[Finger Roll]

Getting the ball and drawing a foul is a huge play. Often stops what would be an offensive bucket most the time too.

Ask any Raptors fan how huge some of Lowrys charges have been during tight games. They might not lead to fast break points- but, they do get the team and home fans (if that's the case) into the game.

[Straight_Ballin]

What good is a block if it results in the team or even the guy who
got blocked still getting the ball and scoring? A charge is a definite change in possession. To have blocks as a main stat but not charges is just another example of the many piss poor decisions made by the NBA. Just accept it.

[Akrazotile]

Bitch you're dumb as **** or trolling. A steal is a specific event. If charges were tracked it would be a completely different stat. It is not a steal I'm any way. It's a forced turnover, however, which is not the definition of a steal. A charge and a steal are two different things. I'm sure an elementary school student can understand the difference and needs no further explanation. Why do you?



Breh your real life is still painful and depressing.

[Straight_Ballin]

Breh your real life is still painful and depressing.

And a piss poor life decision is no better than a piss poor NBA decision. Misery loves company.

[Nuff Said]

Breh your real life is still painful and depressing.
I guarantee my life is better than yours.

[Rocketswin2013]

No.

Should be a serperate stat though.

[kentatm]

Probably not, because a steal is a live-ball turnover (so they can start fast breaks), a charge is a dead-ball turnover. Charges should be in the box score, though.


this

teams do keep those stats though b/c the Dallas announcers have been occasionally using them on air for years now.

Pretty sure that Monta is one of the league leaders in it this year.

[nathanjizzle]

no, technically a charge is a mistake on the offenses part, not a play made by the defense.

[MMM]

no it shouldn't count as a steal but nba.com should track it as an official stat.
same thing with assists leading to fta, they shouldn't add to the assist total but they should track the stat separately.

[Genaro]

No but as people pointed out it should be counted officialy I would like a hard screen that lead to points/ast stat as well but that one is harder to make.

[Smoke117]

no, technically a charge is a mistake on the offenses part, not a play made by the defense.

Uh...no it isn't. You are trying to make taking a charge by a defensive player and an offensive player doing said charge like adding too much oil in your dressing. I'll admit there are a lot of stupid mother ****ing offensive players who just blatantly said "I'm going at the rim as hard as I can and going to finish" while not thinking maybe the defense is going to react. (everyone's defensive darlin' the last couple of years comes to mind the most: Tony Allen. He literally just seems to think you can just drive as hard as you can straight to the basket from the 3pt line, finish, and that nobody is going to think to stop you or get in your way? Actually...I think i'm only proving your point with Tony Allen, but that's just because he's so god damn stupid.

The players in history who actually really took legit charges (which has grown a lot smaller since the rule changes when a block is gonna be called more likely than a charge unless its really blatant...) basically read what the man they were defending or read what the offense was going to do and got in position to take the charge ie: Scottie Pippen vs Karl Malone. Scottie didn't flop and Karl Malone wasn't making mistake, Scottie just read exactly what was going to happen and (much to his backs chagrin) went and stood in front of the tank that was Karl Malone.

Let's take one on one into account too...a defensive player only has to read and take into account which way you are going to go and beat you to that spot. That doesn't mean he's a bad offensive player, it just means that the defender who was defending him, was either lucky (the least likeliest) or that he read what you were going to do because well NBA teams have scouting reports and good defensive players study up on who they are playing and know which way a guy is likely to go or not with his dribble. Athleticism doesn't hurt, but it's the ability to read your opponents that allows you to get a legit charge.

[sd3035]

The only stat that should be added is an assist for someone who sets up a guy under the rim, only to have him get hacked on the dunk /lay up. If he makes both FTs, that's an assist, one FT = .5