Gary Payton says most "PGs" are shooting guards

[secund2nun]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2031223-gary-payton-chris-paul-no-1-point-guard-takes-dig-at-stephen-curry?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national?is_shared=true?is_shared=true

Gary Payton telling the truth about how most PGs today are really just undersized SGs pretending to be PGs.

They are hero ball shooting guard wannabes who are not about ball movement. This is why we are in the ISO era. The spurs understand that a PG must be a distributor first which is why they are so good. Now unlike Payton I actually like Curry's game even though he is a unique PG, but I am not a fan of the selfish inefficient chucker PGs like Rose, Irving, Westbrook, Lillard, Kemba Walker etc. These guys play "ball hog in the playground" loser ball. They have such a bad basketball mentality.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Very few true PGs left in the league. CP3 FTW

[fpliii]

What height's undersized for a SG?

[Rose'sACL]

why does it matter what they are called? if they are playing well and resulting in wins?
KD, melo and Lebron switch from SF to PF a lot of the times and duncan play C or PF depending on what Pop wants him to do.

[ralph_i_el]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2031223-gary-payton-chris-paul-no-1-point-guard-takes-dig-at-stephen-curry?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=programming-national?is_shared=true?is_shared=true

Gary Payton telling the truth about how most PGs today are really just undersized SGs pretending to be PGs.

They are hero ball shooting guard wannabes who are not about ball movement. This is why we are in the ISO era. The spurs understand that a PG must be a distributor first which is why they are so good. Now unlike Payton I actually like Curry's game even though he is a unique PG, but I am not a fan of the selfish inefficient chucker PGs like Rose, Irving, Westbrook, Lillard, Kemba Walker etc. These guys play "ball hog in the playground" loser ball. They have such a bad basketball mentality.


the amount of plays finished by iso has decreased every season since 2007

[MUGEN]

lol Lillard is anything but a ball hogger

[secund2nun]

the amount of plays finished by iso has decreased every season since 2007

Good trend, but the league is still an ISO league especially when you compare it to other time periods. I hope the trend keeps up.

[Demitri98]

What height's undersized for a SG?
For me undersized at the SG is anything under 6'4, a la Monta Ellis, Jimmer Freddette or Avery Bradley.

[secund2nun]

why does it matter what they are called? if they are playing well and resulting in wins?
KD, melo and Lebron switch from SF to PF a lot of the times and duncan play C or PF depending on what Pop wants him to do.

ISO PGs are very overrated.

Teams aren't playing up to their potential because of this ISO non sense. A PG's primary purpose is to facilitate ball movement. These ISO PGs contribute nothing in the ball movement category and are actually ball stoppers.

A player like KD, Lebron or Duncan are multitalented and can multiple positions and play them well. Very players have the frame and talent to do that.

[fpliii]

For me undersized at the SG is anything under 6'4, a la Monta Ellis, Jimmer Freddette or Avery Bradley.
What about Wade?

[secund2nun]

What height's undersized for a SG?

A 6'3 190 player like Rose and Irving would be a undersized SG.

[russwest0]

I agree with him on what he said about the NBA being soft a while back. And I agree with him here, but I don't see the point he is trying to make.

[InfiniteBaskets]

What about Wade?

Wade is 6'4 220. But to be honest he was the primary playmaker for Miami before LeBron got here anyways.

[Andrei89]

What about Wade?


D-wade is 6'4" and has a great wingspan.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

outdated NBA model. Why wouldn't PGs today be able to do everything a shooting guard can

[D.J.]

They're really combo guards, but GP is pretty much on point. The point guard's job is to move the ball and set up his teammates. You have 4 other players who can score. Someone has to handle the ball and be a pass first player.

[fpliii]

outdated NBA model. Why wouldn't PGs today be able to do everything a shooting guard can
Because if you're undersized, it's difficult to defend your position.

[scm5]

A 6'3 190 player like Rose and Irving would be a undersized SG.

Curry is 6'3 as well, but not very muscular or athletic.

[Graviton]

They're really combo guards, but GP is pretty much on point. The point guard's job is to move the ball and set up his teammates. You have 4 other players who can score. Someone has to handle the ball and be a pass first player.
All the best teams have 1 or 2 ball dominant players, you can't pass the ball around if you don't have the coach and system in place to utilize that movement properly. It's easier to win games with pure talent. You don't have "4 players who can score". You have one or two stars that can create their own shot and 3 scrubs/role players that are only good at doing 1 thing and need to be spoon fed. Those kind of players are not reliable.

Miami - Lebron/Wade dominating the ball with rest of the team standing around for open 3s. They play defense and create turnovers for some more easy baskets.

OKC - Their whole system is Durant/Westbrook ISOs. And their athletic players again forcing turnovers, running the floor and outscoring opponents with their energy and hustle.

Golden State - Their whole offense is Curry/Klay chucking 3s.

Clippers - Similar to OKC+Golden State. Paul dribbles the ball around until he finds an open 3 or a dunk opportunity for Griffin/Jordan. They shoot 3s and run the floor.

Pacers - They play good defense but their offense is absolute shit, it usually turns into George chucking ridiculous shots or Hibbert bricking everything. Nobody on that team can score consistently.

Rockets - All they do is chuck 3s and or shoot free throws. Harden holds the ball for like 90% of the shot clock.

Spurs - Only team that has the coach who got the system in place for amazing ball and body movement resulting in open shots and great team basketball.

So which one of those teams would actually be better with a "traditional" PG? None of them would improve, most would get worse. The offense and passing duties are never the responsibility of 1 player, it's all on the coach. You think Westbrook/Lilard/Irving would play the same way with Pop? He would turn them into even better versions of Tony Parker.

[ABfor3]

Some people here don't understand the purpose of the point guard position, it has nothing to do with height. Magic was 6'9 and was a pure point guard. The point guard is in control of setting up his teammates for a chance to score, if nothing is there then they take the shot themselves but it's always a pass first mentality. For years the point guard position has also been the leaders of teams, hence why most coaches in the NBA are former point guards.

[oarabbus]

Payton was a >20ppg scorer, so clearly he wasn't a pure point either.

[KyrieTheFuture]

GP been mad as **** that no one remembers him anymore.

[Big#50]

Dude needs to learn to speak proper English. How can someome like that get a job on TV?
But he is right.
NOBODY REMEMBERS PAYTON.

[Brizzly]

What about Wade?

Height doesnt really matter when you have a 6'11 wingspan, a wingspan comparable to LeBrons.

[RedBlackAttack]

Listening to Payton talk basketball reaffirms the notion that great basketball players do not always make great basketball analysts. I wonder if GP is willing to take a look at his own career, put it under the microscope, and leap to some grand conclusions as a result?

After all, he wasn't exactly the most "conventional" PG in the league way back when... a 2.9 assist/TO ratio while shooting 46% from the field isn't necessarily going to "wow" anyone.

Even in his best years, initiating the offense and distributing was never his greatest trait. He was an excellent all-around player, but not the model of what a PG is "supposed" to be.

[jstern]

Is that website a blog or a real website, because the way it's written is so unprofessional and agenda driven.

[The Iron Sheik]

there have been more "shoot first pgs" that were stars than "pass first pgs" in nba history. guys like nash and stockton are an exception, not the norm.

and i love gp but what is he talking about? he's had multiple strings of games taking almost 30 shots lol. in his prime he was always leading his teams in field goal attempts.

[fpliii]

Height doesnt really matter when you have a 6'11 wingspan, a wingspan comparable to LeBrons.
Good point. If he was 6'4" and wasn't particularly long, would be undersized at the 2?

[The Iron Sheik]

They're really combo guards, but GP is pretty much on point. The point guard's job is to move the ball and set up his teammates. You have 4 other players who can score. Someone has to handle the ball and be a pass first player.

when a point guard is asked to do most of the scoring for his team, it's because the other 3 or 4 guys can't score. pgs can score and pass as well. having a guy who handles the ball most of the time be a constant scoring threat is such an advantage that every smart coach would want to take advantage of it. it's like people think a pg can't have a play run for himself.

guys like rose, westbrook, lillard and others shoot as much as they do because it's what their respective teams need and want from them. rose averaged almost 8 assists in 2011 yet people were calling him a "chucker" lol.

[RoseCity07]

I think the passing ability of most star point guards is down right pathetic. More guards need to be better passers. Everyone thinks they need to play like Jordan and all they care about is offense. It's such a fundamental skill too.

The youngest guard that I've seen that displays good passing instinct is Kendall Marshall. If you give his passing ability to a few 2nd or 3rd tier scoring guards they become elite.

[JohnFreeman]

Shaun Livingston is a good passer

[L.Kizzle]

Payton, avg over 20 PPG seven times ...