Do you differentiate between a reason and an excuse?

[Kblaze8855]

Reading through topics ive seen quite a few claims recently that _____ has no excuses.

Durant. Lebron. Paul. At times the Spurs. Ive read that wilt got too many. Kareem gets too many for not doing more than he did in the 70s(being a 5 time MVP with 2 finals and a ring isn't very much it seems). One on Duncan and Parker getting excuses whenever they lose because they have won so much. On and on it goes.

Ive seen it said by people mentioning that Jordan didn't win without Pippen that people saying he shouldn't have won were making excuses.

That Kobe blowing that 3-1 lead vs the Suns...had people making excuses.

No matter how accomplished a person....seems if they fail and the reasons are listed...they are excuses.

I read a topic a while back on how 5 teams are no longer allowed "excuses". The Heat, OKC, Clippers, Spurs, and Pacers. The obvious question is....

How could more than one team have no excuses for losing?

If a team should win...and are so favored that failing to do so can not be excused....how could more than one team fall into that category?

More than one player?

Lebron doesn't take some shot....no excuses for passing it up.

Durant doesn't win the title....no excuses for the MVP with a good team not winning.

Paul loses to a team higher seeded...no excuses.


A topic was made in Roses 3rd game back asking when the window for making excuses for less than superstar level play closes.

Is the concept of things happening for good reason totally lost on people here?

Or are the reasons something happens secondary....to having the fact that they happened in ones arsenal?


There are some things its hard to say "Well...it just didn't work out...its not that big a deal" about.

In most cases an 8 seed upset(and even then many matchups aren't as lopsided as they appear). An MVP playing so far below his usual that his team is demolished when they should likely have won. Certain coaching decisions...though even the most head scratching of those have a reason. Just didn't work out.

Do we just not accept that multiple teams are capable of beating anyone and therefore anyone can potentially lose with good reason?

Or do we only acknowledge that for players we like?

[ArbitraryWater]

Everyone has legit reasons... like for LeBron not beating the Magic in 2009?

39/8/8 isn't a excuse, the reason he lost was his team... 39/8/8 is outlandish

excuses? Well the mentioned player probably could have done more.. or you blame little things that ultimately shouldnt impact the outcome.

[Purch]

Depends, on the situation. Take someone like Kg for instance, his supporting cast was literal crap for years, so is really hard to fault him for not pushing his team further. Or look at Wade from 08-10, that supporting cast was worse than any cast of any star player in the league.


However, you look at a guy like Cp, and in comparison his supporting cast have never been on that level of terrible. I think when you're talking about him losing to a higher seed, you're assuming the idea that great players"(especially players who were hyped to be on the level of Magic Johnson) aren't able to cause series upsets. He'll I've seen Baron Davis lead an upset, but Paul who people claimed was statistically the 2nd greatest point guard behind Magic, suddenly is excused to lose just because he's playing someone with a higher seed.

Honestly, the level of hype Cp3 received at a point, should have garnered him Lebron levels of expectations, for producing in the post season, but In reality people are fine with the fact that he's gotten blown out by 63 (at home), and that he's never even gotten past the second round

[Kblaze8855]

The "Just because" is funny in there to me.

Losing....to a team better than yours....isn't a reason you lost. Its an excuse for losing.

This is exactly the kind of thing I mean.

Its not saying upsets cant happen. They happen every year.

But the idea that you are....supposed....to beat a better team...or its excuse making when you lose?

Its just laughable to me.

Almost every example of a "There are no excuses" post I can think of are laughable.

Especially when said in advance. The idea that NOTHING could happen to make a loss reasonable is hard to accept that anyone could believe. But people do.

I read topics before the year asking what the excuse would be when ___ lost...

Months in advance...its implied that people will need excuses...for games/a series played vs an unknown opponent with unknown health on either side...after a season of unknown success.

Its not enough to wait and then claim excuses cant be made...

People do it without even seeing a single team play a game yet.

[Purch]

Because expections should change considering the situation. Like 2011 with Lebron. In 2010 he had no real second option, so the moment he got Wade, it was justified for people to say "no excuses" becaus he's got the second option that people stated was all he needed to win it all.

Or Cp3, people claim that his supporting cast and coach were inadequate. This year he has a top 5 player and a top 5 coach. So if all the reasons he lost aren't issues anymore, than its no excuses. He has the perfect situation to push his team far. Him losing to a higher seed whiles he has a great supporting cast and great coach, becomes a reflection on his inability to push his team to secure home court during the season

[christian1923]

Fans and media can make excuses for a team, players can't make excuses though. It makes him sound like a jerk when he does, the only god reason is that the other team was better or that the other team was the better team that night.

[Kblaze8855]

Honestly, the level of hype Cp3 received at a point, should have garnered him Lebron levels of expectations, for producing in the post season, but In reality people are fine with the fact that he's gotten blown out by 63 (at home), and that he's never even gotten past the second round

And this....

Did I miss when Chris Paul was a household name?

What hype exactly does chris paul get? Almost winning MVP 6 years ago? Being all NBA when people play worse than him?

Chris Paul has never been as celebrated as even Durant this year. Who himself doesn't have Lebron level expectations.

People were saying Lebron was Michael, Magic, and Bird all rolled in one when he was 17.

Paul has never had nearly that level of hype. Hes a celebrated point inside the basketball world.

Hes not some worldwide superstar.

[JohnFreeman]

CP3 is a star, in reality Rondo is the better point guard (barring injuries)

[Kblaze8855]

So if all the reasons he lost aren't issues anymore

The only reason anyone ever needed to lose....is not being the best. Pretty much every other way of looking at it is letting emotion cloud the issue.

If I lose with a bad team...and then I get say....James Harden, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Joakim Noah on my team while im still a star....

I no longer have the reason I lost in the past.

But if that same year Lebron signs in LA with Kobe, and Kevin Love as they draft Jabari Parker to come off the bench, Pierce signs for the vet minimum and Phil comes back to coach them and they win 66 games and knock me out of the playoffs...

The idea that I had to win or be clowned is crazy.

Yet things like it are claimed every single year for a wide variety of players.

Really..how does someone claim 5 teams have no excuses?

Clearly someone has to win and someone has to lose. But 5 teams....should win or be clowned?

It just doesn't add up. Bit of the post in question:



1) The Heat

You have to win, period. While the Heat get flack when they lose, they are still expected to win by many people. So LeBron and company have to live up to the hype.

2) OKC

Some people are saying Durant is now a better scorer than Wilt Chamberlain, Abdul-Jabbar and Michael Jordan. If you are better than all those guys, get the MVP and have a great team surrounding you, what's the excuse to not win a ring? Exactly. Win a ring or go home. No excuses.



How the hell can multiple teams have no acceptable reason to lose? Someone....HAS to lose.

There are no excuses for the inevitable?

[ReturnofJPR]

The only reason anyone ever needed to lose....is not being the best. Pretty much every other way of looking at it is letting emotion cloud the issue.

If I lose with a bad team...and then I get say....James Harden, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Joakim Noah on my team while im still a star....

I no longer have the reason I lost in the past.

But if that same year Lebron signs in LA with Kobe, and Kevin Love as they draft Jabari Parker to come off the bench, Pierce signs for the vet minimum and Phil comes back to coach them and they win 66 games and knock me out of the playoffs...

The idea that I had to win or be clowned is crazy.

Yet things like it are claimed every single year for a wide variety of players.

Really..how does someone claim 5 teams have no excuses?

Clearly someone has to win and someone has to lose. But 5 teams....should win or be clowned?

It just doesn't add up. Bit of the post in question:




How the hell can multiple teams have no acceptable reason to lose?

It does add up all that matters is winning this is a sport a competition if you don't win, then you're a loser who will fadeaway like Ben Gordon who chooses money over W's & legacy.

[All Net]

You know it's funny people will call out CP if Clippers lose but those same people are the ones who will pick okc to beat them.

[Kblaze8855]

I could see Ben coming off the bench for the Rockets in the 2015 playoffs to drop 18 in the 3rd of a key second round game.

I don't know if his story is fully told just yet.

[Kblaze8855]

You know it's funny people will call out CP if Clippers lose but those same people are the ones who will pick okc to beat them.


For real....

You know I once saw a guy say that Wilt had no excuse for losing to the Celtics in the same post he mentioned that Wilt was selfish and that's why he didn't have anyone to play with?

[Purch]

You know it's funny people will call out CP if Clippers lose but those same people are the ones who will pick okc to beat them.
Because its precisely the fact that we dont trust Cp3 to push his team into the next round, the way we trust Kd to step up his game and get them past Lac

[ReturnofJPR]

I think it is hard for blaze to understand because he is probably one of the most intellectual posters this board has seen going back to the good ole Gobb days. The true answer is the reason science can't explain dreams or d

[Kblaze8855]

I believe "It" exists. At least in some. Bill Russell sure as hell had "it". You don't just win 2 titles in high school, 55 in a row and 2 more rings in college, the gold medal by record margins of victory, then 11 rings in the NBA by chance. He just wanted it more and didn't accept less than the best from his teammates...while also showing them due respect and getting them to want to win...for his sake.

But when they lost in 67 with Wilt playing like almighty Zeus....and the fans chanted "Boston is dead!" I don't see how anyone is asking about excuses. And yet....ive seen someone do it. Ive seen it said that "Yea...but they had won 8 in a row. You are hating because they didn't win EVERY year?" is just an excuse and Russell should have been hated on more than he was.

Use of the word "excuse" is approaching "Automatic terrible post" status because people have literally taken to calling all reasons for a loss....excuses.

[BoutPractice]

Rationally this thread makes perfect sense. I also agree with the broad objective of making us confront our contradictions.

At the same time I can see why people would make no excuse for certain players or teams even though it's incoherent or irrational. I think it's a natural part of sports.

It's inherently unfair. Expectations are almost by definition unreasonable. Anything other than total victory is deemed a failure. But this unfairness contributes to what makes it compelling. A lot of sports plays like a tragedy in the ancient sense of the term: 15 teams and their players have to get "sacrificed", regardless of whether they deserved it or not. What could be more tragic than a series like last year's Finals? Both teams were giving everything, playing at the highest level imaginable. A part of me wanted both the Spurs and the Heat to get it. But in the end someone had to win. And we had to assign success to one camp, blame to the other, even though really it was "fortune" which decided the case.

[pauk]

Yes i do...

An excuse is more used in purpose to minimize accountability or withdraw accountability completely, they also come always AFTER (in this case, after a game/series). An excuse tries to act like a reason....

A reason is the reasonable, logical and factual explanation assessing an event, a REASON. Sometimes the reason can actually be mistaken for just an excuse though...

An excuse can be a reason if you can explain how/why that really is a reason.

In basketball (especially in this forum) an excuse can also be used offensively, by haters for example, trying to deny the actual reason....

Personally i care about only the truth, the real reason to why something happened, whether it sounds like an excuse or not, i dont care.... if IT was the reason to the outcome of a game/series then i see nothing wrong with it.

[RRR3]

CP3 is a star, in reality Rondo is the better point guard (barring injuries)
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

CP3 is a star, in reality Rondo is the better point guard (barring injuries)
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[NumberSix]

If Durant continues to benefit from his ridiculous ref advantage, he has NO EXCUSE to lose.

[DMAVS41]

Sure, reasons usually are apparent regardless of what happens in a series.

Like the 11 Heat in the finals...all the things said about why they lost after the series were just excuses. Not reasons....like all the "chemistry" shit...etc.

Those are just excuses for Lebron's historic collapse on the biggest stage.


Reasons would be more in line with the Celtics "upsetting" the Cavs in 10 in the playoffs. There were tangible reasons going into that series to think the Cavs would struggle with their worse defense with Jamison going against KG...etc.

No matter what happens in the spurs vs mavs series this year...there are reasons to think the Spurs will dominate the Mavs. If they don't...and there aren't injuries or something...then it will just be excuses.

[All Net]

Because its precisely the fact that we dont trust Cp3 to push his team into the next round, the way we trust Kd to step up his game and get them past Lac
No its the fact Durant is better than CP more than anything.

[DMAVS41]

No its the fact Durant is better than CP more than anything.

This.

[RidonKs]

the difference is pretty simple

a reason is used to explain. an excuse is used to accuse somebody else's explanation of being bullshit. every reason can turn into "just an excuse" as soon as someone decides to make the accusation.


the real truth nobody wants to admit because it would turn their world inside out and upside down is that any all time sports ranking is predicated on some circumstances happening and others not happening. it's the butterfly effect from being completely flipped.

thats of course devils advocate to the dude declaring the "it" factor explains all and we should just bow down to mystery and spirit and geist and all this stuff.

of course i could easily say bill russell's "it" factor was in reality a combination of phenomenal natural ability, unwavering work ethic, stern leadership skills, and an almost psychotic "us v them" mentality that caused his teammates to rally around him. not as exotic as "it" but, yaknow....

[SexSymbol]

MJ was the biggest excuse maker ever.