Is Dirk really a top 20 player?

[nathanjizzle]

of all time? some people were arguing top 15 a while ago. i dont pay attention to him much, but when i do watch it seems he doesnt effect the game as much as the higher caliber players. Yes he can shoot, yes he has a post game, but his offensive control of the game is minimal compared to other high caliber players. He relies on whats given to him rather than taking it. his counterpart is tim duncan but tim duncan has beat him 9 consecutive times in the playoffs. how can someone that loses so much to a counterpart be considered in the top 20 players list

[Cone]

stfu and get a life.

[fpliii]

Definitely IMO.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He won a title with a team of role players.

Yea, he is easily top 20.

[DMAVS41]

His team has the 2nd best win percentage of the last 10 years moron...LOL...loses this much

[BigTicket]

MVP, FMVP and 12xAll-NBA

He has a strong case for top 20 all time.

[moe94]

Dirk already won it all and had his team in contention for years. Hell are you on about?

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Stick to sucking off D. Rose.

[miles berg]

Without a doubt. Should have had the title in 2003 and 2006 too.

[ArbitraryWater]

Finest overreaction ever...


Now go fcuk off with your shitty fan life you clueless fakkit

[Doctor K]

His team has the 2nd best win percentage of the last 10 years moron...LOL...loses this much

Regular season? But I thought it was all about the playoffs...:facepalm

[eklip]

of all time? some people were arguing top 15 a while ago. i dont pay attention to him much, but when i do watch it seems he doesnt effect the game as much as the higher caliber players. Yes he can shoot, yes he has a post game, but his offensive control of the game is minimal compared to other high caliber players. He relies on whats given to him rather than taking it. his counterpart is tim duncan but tim duncan has beat him 9 consecutive times in the playoffs. how can someone that loses so much to a counterpart be considered in the top 20 players list
There is a reason why Dirk played 42 minutes in this game even though his shot was off. He effects the game immensely with how the defender play him.

Duncan didn't beat Dirk 9 consecutive times in the playoffs. They were talking about the regular season. Look at Dirk's roster and health during that time.

One game doesn't change his all-time rankings. He'll be 36 in two month and many top15-20 players were bad, useless or retired at the this age.

[Bodhi]

Finest overreaction ever...


Now go fcuk off with your shitty fan life you clueless fakkit
Same. Lifelong Heat fan since 2014 here and I'm tired of the disrespect

[truhooper]

Yes

20-25 imo

[RagaZ]

Yes he is.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Of all-time? No way, hes barely a bottom-line top 50 all time, and thats still largely due to the magnificent performance in 2011 playoffs.

[Smook A.]

Of all-time? No way, hes barely a bottom-line top 50 all time, and thats still largely due to the magnificent performance in 2011 playoffs.
:biggums:
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bsi.gif

[AlphaWolf24]

His team has the 2nd best win percentage of the last 10 years moron...LOL...loses this much


Regular season.....

Post season holds far more weight then the 82 game warm ups

[SCdac]

I got him top-25 ish in terms of all time impact and talent.

"Top 12" according to Carlisle, but I think that's just teammate love

[ThePhantomCreep]

Top 25.

You could make a case for top 20. Diminishing him for his gag job today is pretty silly. Does Duncan catch heat for going scoreless in the 4th quarter and OT of game 6 of the '13 Finals?

[Rocketswin2013]

Possibly not

[DirkNowitzki07]

Looks like we have a lot of fakkits that barely bagan watching basketball this year :oldlol:

Probably the same dudes that have Rose and Griffin ahead of Stockton and Duncan

Just cuz they can dunk so good

[westsideozzie]

He's great, but my top 20 players of all time need to affect the game on both ends of the court.

[nathanjizzle]

just a guestimate, but i would put dirk somewhere between 25-35. i wonder why people overrate him so much. maybe they are fascinated with his step back fadeaway which is a move players rarely use anymore.

[DMAVS41]

Regular season.....

Post season holds far more weight then the 82 game warm ups

That is regular season and playoff combined brah...

[Cone]

Regular season.....

Post season holds far more weight then the 82 game warm ups

id love to see kobes career without multiple HoFers. :roll:

most overrated player by far!

[STATUTORY]

id love to see kobes career without multiple HoFers. :roll:

most overrated player by far!

shaq is multiple? :rolleyes: :facepalm

[bballnoob1192]

id love to see kobes career without multiple HoFers. :roll:

most overrated player by far!
yea he won 2chips fmvps and one mvp and 3 trips to the finals........

[Cone]

dont kid yourselves... w/o shaq and gasol carrying his ass then he is another AI

[Rooster]

just a guestimate, but i would put dirk somewhere between 25-35. i wonder why people overrate him so much. maybe they are fascinated with his step back fadeaway which is a move players rarely use anymore.

I think you can make an argument about him being a top 20 but him making the the mediocre franchise like Dallas Mavericks relevant over the decade and his longevity will settle his case.

[moe94]

shaq is multiple? :rolleyes: :facepalm

Hell, he might as well be.

[Cone]

shouldnt be any discussions here..

look at the op. this virgin fakkit does nothing but troll all day

[AlphaWolf24]

That is regular season and playoff combined brah...


now do one with just the postseason.....

you know Post season matters more ......Right?



also do one with how many post season games he played....and how many seasons his teams played 10 or less post season games...









in other words......fizzled out.

[nathanjizzle]

shouldnt be any discussions here..

look at the op. this virgin fakkit does nothing but troll all day

i do? i will paypal you 100 dollars if you find a troll thread created by me within the last month.

[Inferno]

Regular season? But I thought it was all about the playoffs...:facepalm

He's made the Finals twice, and led one of the biggest upsets in 2011...

[DMAVS41]

now do one with just the postseason.....

you know Post season matters more ......Right?



also do one with how many post season games he played....and how many seasons his teams played 10 or less post season games...









in other words......fizzled out.


Can you fizzle out for your career if your teams actually overachieve in the playoffs more often?

Isn't that the opposite of fizzling out?

Also, considering Dirk is one of the best elimination and game 7 players ever....how is that fizzling out?

Fizzling out is when you have like mutliple blowout series ending losses...I think there is this player that fizzles out routinely in the playoffs when his team faces adversity. I think he even lost to Dirk by like 40 in a series ending game....but that is kind of routine for him.

He loses big when his team faces adversity...I call him "the fizzler"

[Kiddlovesnets]

:biggums:
http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bsi.gif

Well I am serious at what I am saying, Dirk is around 40-50 all time, thats the most objective assessment of his accomplishment in NBA.

[SCdac]

Even if the Mavs lose I don't think Dirk will fall too much. He's older, largely a jump shooter and one way player, Mavs are not a spectacular team outside of him. His impact in the regular season and playoffs is known, though...

The only thing that 'bothers' me is the parroted "unstoppable shot" label... (which nobody ever talked about the majority of his career).

It's a tough shot to block for obvious reasons (height, clean stroke, etc)....but IDK, If I'm ever trying to force players into a shot , I want it to be a tough contested fade away or something closer to the three point line than the paint.. like many of Dirk's shots. He's finished a playoff run shooting .50% from the field only 2 times and save me the speech about his TS% or efficiency FG% ... for much of his career, he kinda reminded me of David Robinson resorting to jump shots, when you oh so want him to drive it or post up. no coincidence IMO that Dirk's offense became tougher to guard as his post game improved roughly 10+ years into his career. But "unstoppable", I've never quite felt that about his jump shooting if we're talking his whole body of work (not just the recent past)

Having said that, Dirk will probably explode for 30+ next game... Tiago was decent on him though.

[DMAVS41]

Even if the Mavs lose I don't think Dirk will fall too much. He's older, largely a jump shooter and one way player, Mavs are not a spectacular team outside of him. His impact in the regular season and playoffs is known, though...

The only thing that 'bothers' me is the parroted "unstoppable shot" label... (which nobody ever talked about the majority of his career).

It's a tough shot to block for obvious reasons (height, clean stroke, etc)....but IDK, If I'm ever trying to force players into a shot , I want it to be a tough contested fade away or something closer to the three point line than the paint.. like many of Dirk's shots. He's finished a playoff run shooting .50% from the field only 2 times and save me the speech about his TS% or efficiency FG% ... for much of his career, he kinda reminded me of David Robinson resorting to jump shots, when you oh so want him to drive it or post up. no coincidence IMO that Dirk's offense became tougher to guard as his post game improved roughly 10+ years into his career. But "unstoppable", I've never quite felt that about his jump shooting if we're talking his whole body of work (not just the recent past)

Having said that, Dirk will probably explode for 30+ next game... Tiago was decent on him though.


I agree with some of this, but you have to remember how athletic Dirk was for a lot of his career. I really don't think you are giving him credit for how versatile he was...he could play sf with ease back in the day...and he did attack the basket more than you give him credit for.

Also, his range shooting needs to be mentioned here. You talk about efficiency from the field, but ignore that 3 is worth 3. Dirk's real efg% is actually basically identical with Duncan's for example.

Dirk is one of the best mid range jump shooters ever. In his prime he could pull up off the dribble, shoot threes, drive from the three point line, post at the top of the key, post at the wing, draw fouls consistently, and his turnover rate is historically low.

And ft shooting is a huge part of playoff basketball as a scorer. Imagine if Duncan shot 90% instead of 69%...that difference is huge in and of itself, but imagine how much harder it would be for teams to guard him knowing that it was basically two points every time he went to the line.

I know the stretch 4 thing does "nothing for you" as you've said before, but it actually did something in reality.

I also think that Dirk's value just being on the court offensively is a bit understated here. Shit, even today...the Spurs would rather give up wide open shots to Calderon, Ellis, and Harris...and dunks to Wright...then leave Dirk a sliver of room 25 feet from the basket without the ball.

There is a reason why throughout his career he improved his teams' offense roughly 9 points per 100 possessions...made even more impressive that his teams were quality offensive units...and why a guy like Duncan only improve his teams offense by 2.5 points. It's one thing to greatly improve an average offense or something, but to improve elite offenses that much is special.

He can't carry an offense, especially against a team as smart as the Spurs with 4 guys that guard him rather well, anymore...but he's still one of the better offensive forces in the game. Just playing with a guy like Ellis has opened things up for him a bunch. He just had basically a 50/40/90 season on 22 ppg. I can't imagine what his offense would look like playing with a team that moves it like the Spurs or with a guard like Parker or a playmaker like Manu off the bench or a coach like Pop.