Why I Must Believe In A Higher Being

[ForeverHeat]

Now, I know a lot of you disagree current religion, and in some cases I can understand why. This thread isnt for that though. What I am saying here is that I cannot NOT believe in a higher being. Even if I am not sure what that higher being is, I must believe it exists. This form of "atheism" where there was nothing and then there was something is not only EXTREMELY unlikely, but it is not possible.

Sometimes I just take a walk outside and look at the beautiful scenery and it kind of dawns about me that I know nothing of where I came and nothing about where I will go. When I die, I may just rot forever. There may not be a afterlife, but that is not the question. What was the beginning? Scientists themselves have no idea. There are many theories for how the universe began, but nothing to say how our current realm began. If our universe is surrounded by other universes, where did all these universes come from? If there was some crazy event we cant comprehend that created countless universes, what caused that? How far do things go? Its crazy to think about really, and for that reason I tend to lean towards their being a creator rather than there being nothing and everything just happening. Life right now is like a book where the first 3 quarters of it are ripped out and we are trying to put together the pieces, some of which will never be found.

Its depressing.

[Shade8780]

How is it depressing?

Stop thinking so deep into it and just enjoy it while you're here. You'll figure out the answers later.

[ForeverHeat]

How is it depressing?

Because we know nothing.

[Derka]

Because we know nothing.

Which explains why religion got so popular.

[Shade8780]

OP,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26565Mv_6BQ

"If you a scared mother****er go to church"

[ForeverHeat]

Shade:oldlol:

[Draz]

Life is beautiful. It's amazing. You just have to sit back and realize how extraordinary life can be outside of our ordinary life. Nature is gorgeous. The way science operate is.

[step_back]

I always find it interesting how religious people seem to be experts on Atheism and what Atheists believe.

Atheism doesn't say "there was nothing before the Big Bang and then there was something". Atheism disagrees with what religion (All 4000 of them) says about creationism being responsible for life in the Universe. We don't have the answers, but neither do you.

It's not ****ing hard to understand.

[Take Your Lumps]

The quantum world is a place where cause and effect as we understand them don't really apply and it is in the underlying fabric of our entire universe.

It's ok to not know everything...it's actually one of the most important things to come to terms with if you want to broaden your horizons. But to default to a positive position of knowledge of a deity or deities...that seems a bit presumptuous to say the least.

Check out "A Universe From Nothing" by Krauss for some ideas.

[ForeverHeat]

I always find it interesting how religious people seem to be experts on Atheism and what Atheists believe.

Atheism doesn't say "there was nothing before the Big Bang and then there was something". Atheism disagrees with what religion (All 4000 of them) says about creationism being responsible for life in the Universe. We don't have the answers, but neither do you.

It's not ****ing hard to understand.

If you disagree with a specific religion, then fine. But you cant disagree with the whole of creationism because you do not know the theories behind "all 4000" religions. You cannot disagree with something you dont actually know about. The only way you can disagree with creationism as a broader term is to actually disprove it or to bring forth your own theory, neither or which atheism has done.

[ForeverHeat]

The quantum world is a place where cause and effect as we understand them don't really apply and it is in the underlying fabric of our entire universe.

It's ok to not know everything...it's actually one of the most important things to come to terms with if you want to broaden your horizons. But to default to a positive position of knowledge of a deity or deities...that seems a bit presumptuous to say the least.

Check out "A Universe From Nothing" by Krauss for some ideas.

I will do that.

[step_back]

If you disagree with a specific religion, then fine. But you cant disagree with the whole of creationism because you do not know the theories behind "all 4000" religions. You cannot disagree with something you dont actually know about. The only way you can disagree with creationism as a broader term is to actually disprove it or to bring forth your own theory, neither or which atheism has done.

1. Name a religion that doesn't have a deity responsible for life then?

2. You mean like you're doing and religions tend to do? Oh the irony :roll:

3. Still waiting for you religious people to prove the existence of god. Also Atheism does have a theory, how can you even type that in a serious manner :facepalm

[ForeverHeat]

1. Name a religion that doesn't have a deity responsible for life then?

2. You mean like you're doing and religions tend to do? Oh the irony :roll:

3. Still waiting for you religious people to prove the existence of god. Also Atheism does have a theory, how can you even type that in a serious manner :facepalm

Firstly, if god is indeed real, then it cannot be proved without doubt in this life. One may point to many things in this world which can signal the presence of a god, but it cannot be proved scientifically until you die. So if religion is correct, it still cannot be proved. That is why its called faith.

Now, if you dont have faith and you disagree with it because it has no stone cold evidence, then isnt it a bit ironic that you then turn to atheism, which also has no stone cold evidence for how life came about? Its the pot calling the kettle black.

As far as Atheism having a theory, didnt you say this?



Atheism doesn't say "there was nothing before the Big Bang and then there was something". Atheism disagrees with what religion (All 4000 of them) says about creationism being responsible for life in the Universe. We don't have the answers, but neither do you.

[ballup]

Whatever helps you sleep at night

[Bandito]

Life is beautiful. It's amazing. You just have to sit back and realize how extraordinary life can be outside of our ordinary life. Nature is gorgeous. The way science operate is.
Aren't you from NY? Do even nature!? And Central Park doesn't count:lol

[step_back]

Firstly, if god is indeed real, then it cannot be proved without doubt in this life. One may point to many things in this world which can signal the presence of a god, but it cannot be proved scientifically until you die. So if religion is correct, it still cannot be proved. That is why its called faith.

Now, if you dont have faith and you disagree with it because it has no stone cold evidence, then isnt it a bit ironic that you then turn to atheism, which also has no stone cold evidence for how life came about? Its the pot calling the kettle black.

As far as Atheism having a theory, didnt you say this?

Although it was allegedly "proved" thousands of years ago in Jesus Christ the son of God.

The definition of Faith "is a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof". Why when you die is it then proved scientifically in afterlife as you say? This is a very convenient answer from people of "Faith".

When did Atheism say it had stone cold proof? And why are you even asking me what the theory of Atheism is when you just ****ing highlighted it!

[BrownEye007]

Now, I know a lot of you disagree current religion, and in some cases I can understand why. This thread isnt for that though. What I am saying here is that I cannot NOT believe in a higher being. Even if I am not sure what that higher being is, I must believe it exists. This form of "atheism" where there was nothing and then there was something is not only EXTREMELY unlikely, but it is not possible.

Sometimes I just take a walk outside and look at the beautiful scenery and it kind of dawns about me that I know nothing of where I came and nothing about where I will go. When I die, I may just rot forever. There may not be a afterlife, but that is not the question. What was the beginning? Scientists themselves have no idea. There are many theories for how the universe began, but nothing to say how our current realm began. If our universe is surrounded by other universes, where did all these universes come from? If there was some crazy event we cant comprehend that created countless universes, what caused that? How far do things go? Its crazy to think about really, and for that reason I tend to lean towards their being a creator rather than there being nothing and everything just happening. Life right now is like a book where the first 3 quarters of it are ripped out and we are trying to put together the pieces, some of which will never be found.

Its depressing.You clearly don't know anything more about atheism than what your local priest has taught you. Now I'm not going to go into detail about why all of your statements that I highlighted are false (except for the last one cause your post really is depressing) just because it's too time consuming and I don't have the motivation. I will however take the time to recommend "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins in which he makes valid, thought provoking arguments against everything you just said as well as pretty much any other argument you've ever heard against atheism. Now I don't expect that you'd actually take the time to read over 1000 pages of actually facts (as opposed to the "facts" you've been spewing off in this thread) but if you actually were to read it and still aren't inclined to agree with atheism you have some strong ass faith. Or just severe reading comprehension skills. If you aren't going to read it though please stop acting like you know what atheists believe, because you very obviously (to any atheist anyway) don't.

[K Xerxes]

This form of "atheism" where there was nothing and then there was something is not only EXTREMELY unlikely, but it is not possible.

Atheism does not espouse the notion that something came from nothing. It is simply an umbrella term for everyone who does not believe in a god(s).

I think believing in a higher power for this reason is just inviting you to question the origin of this higher being. In essence, it is adding a superfluous layer which does not need to be added. There is nothing wrong with admitting that we do not know, but I do not understand the need to invoke a supreme being to explain it. A lot of principles in science are counter-intuitive (quauntum theory, relativity etc) - our origin may be the same if we ever do find out what it is.

[ace23]

Bold font resembles a Rambo post, so I'm inclined to not read.

[oarabbus]

The "it's depressing" thing is true, absolutely true. It's not comfortable or easy to realize us existing is random fcuking chance and nothing else. You may not WANT to believe it, but it's true.

[chosen_one6]

Believing in a higher power is for the weak minded.

I control what I do and where I go in life. Not some puppet master that is supposedly there but no one has ever seen, heard, smelled, touched, or spoken to. You can say you have but no one would ever believe you without proof. Because there is no proof except what you believe in your little brain.

[Budadiiii]

Believing in a higher power is for the weak minded.

I control what I do and where I go in life. Not some puppet master that is supposedly there but no one has ever seen, heard, smelled, touched, or spoken to. You can say you have but no one would ever believe you without proof. Because there is no proof except what you believe in your little brain.
Actually there are studies that say the exact opposite. :oldlol:

People who don't believe in a higher power are more likely to be depressed and more likely to commit suicide.

I know there is no God but I choose to believe anyway. I'm at my strongest when I have faith in something more powerful than me.

I sacrifice my pride everyday so I can be stronger tomorrow. Don't you ever call me weak.

I'm off drugs because of 'God'. Could have never done it by myself. Eat shit, bTo!

[chosen_one6]

Actually there are studies that say the exact opposite. :oldlol:

People who don't believe in a higher power are more likely to be depressed and more likely to commit suicide.

I know there is no God but I choose to believe anyway. I'm at my strongest when I have faith in something more powerful than me.

I sacrifice my pride everyday so I can be stronger tomorrow. Don't you ever call me weak.

I'm off drugs because of 'God'. Could have never done it by myself. Eat shit, bTo!

You couldn't have done it by yourself because you're weak. You just proved my point :oldlol:

[step_back]

Actually there are studies that say the exact opposite. :oldlol:

People who don't believe in a higher power are more likely to be depressed and more likely to commit suicide.

I know there is no God but I choose to believe anyway. I'm at my strongest when I have faith in something more powerful than me.

I sacrifice my pride everyday so I can be stronger tomorrow. Don't you ever call me weak.

I'm off drugs because of 'God'. Could have never done it by myself. Eat shit, bTo!

If you want to believe that God got you off drugs and on the right path then that's fine. It has worked for you and the important thing is that you got back on track.

As an Atheist I think you are short changing yourself. Ultimately you put in the work and it is you who changed your life. I wouldn't let "God" or "faith" take credit for that.

Saying people who don't believe in God are more likely to be depressed and commit suicide is nothing but a sweeping statement by the way. There is no impartial proof to back that statement up.

To me it seems you cope best when you're aspiring to be something better, which is exactly what religious people see God as and try to do themselves.

[Take Your Lumps]

Actually there are studies that say the exact opposite. :oldlol:

People who don't believe in a higher power are more likely to be depressed and more likely to commit suicide.

I know there is no God but I choose to believe anyway. I'm at my strongest when I have faith in something more powerful than me.

I sacrifice my pride everyday so I can be stronger tomorrow. Don't you ever call me weak.

I'm off drugs because of 'God'. Could have never done it by myself. Eat shit, bTo!

So self-delusion is your drug of choice. At least you admit it.

[ace23]

Believing in a higher power is for the weak minded.

I control what I do and where I go in life. Not some puppet master that is supposedly there but no one has ever seen, heard, smelled, touched, or spoken to. You can say you have but no one would ever believe you without proof. Because there is no proof except what you believe in your little brain.
Chill, brah

[BrownEye007]

You couldn't have done it by yourself because you're weak. You just proved my point :oldlol:
:applause: Don't think I've ever seen Budadiiii get owned quite this hard

[Budadiiii]

You couldn't have done it by yourself because you're weak. You just proved my point :oldlol:
That doesn't make sense.

If there is no God... then I did do it myself, no?

:applause:

[16X]

Saying people who don't believe in God are more likely to be depressed and commit suicide is nothing but a sweeping statement by the way. There is no impartial proof to back that statement up.

I would think it would be the other way around. It should be harder for an atheist to commit suicide, because they don't believe in a better place you go to after death. If they know that this is all there is, I'd think it would be harder to end it all. Teaching children these fairytales about death can be harmful. I remember reading in the past year about a Christian child who committed suicide right after their father died. The kid left a note saying that they were going to go join daddy in Heaven.

[Draz]

Aren't you from NY? Do even nature!? And Central Park doesn't count:lol
Natgeo tho

[JohnFreeman]

Religion is for people with a fear of dying.

[Swaggin916]

Well we know life arises out of chemical reactions... things interacting with each other to do some crazy stuff. Why the universe is set up like that though I don't think we will ever know.

[-p.tiddy-]

Religion is for people with a fear of dying.
naw, majority of religious peeps were born into it...they didn't seek it out

[ArbitraryWater]

Well I believe in a God too, for slightly different reasons though.

[dude77]

I've always heard that most successful people are spiritual or religious .. does make you wonder .. but if you just don't believe in a god, you just don't .. kinda hard to fake that shit

[DoodleDa]

You're seriously overthinking things.

I have no problems with any branch of religion, but I disagree with having faith simply for the fact of justifying something that you're afraid of. Go out and experience how truly beautiful life is. Regardless if there's someone watching over you or not. Live your own life and stop worrying about things you can't control.

[ForeverHeat]

A lot of people have made valid points in this thread, but what Budadiiii said about religious people having way lower suicide rates and less depression is on the spot.

Whether you believe in God or not, its easy to understand that if a person feels as though there is a higher power looking out for them then psychologically it gives them more power, instead of if they believed that they were alone. That is undeniable, there have been many experiments done on it and it is pretty much common sense. Also people who say prayers in times of illness are more likely to get better as a sort of placebo effect than someone who doesnt. But that can only work if your mind truly believes it, you cant really fake that.

[russwest0]

We are all one. I'm god, you're god, and all of that good shit.

The universe started as nothing. Just an all knowing god living in an empty, infinite environment. The homie got bored and shit so he collapsed into all of this, he spread himself apart amongst all of us and shit, slowly destroying the memory of himself. Where's the fun if you can think of something, imagine it, and instantly have those thoughts come to fruition? No fun whatsoever.

So no, god isn't some higher power ruling us all, god is us. We are the beings that make shit happen.

You can open and close your hand without hesitation, but you don't quite know exactly HOW you do it. You do the same shit with all of the functions in the universe just like your counterparts on this world do. Just as you open and close your hand, you shine the sun. How? Because you're god homie. And it's time you start ****ing living like it.

[K Xerxes]

A lot of people have made valid points in this thread, but what Budadiiii said about religious people having way lower suicide rates and less depression is on the spot.

Whether you believe in God or not, its easy to understand that if a person feels as though there is a higher power looking out for them then psychologically it gives them more power, instead of if they believed that they were alone. That is undeniable, there have been many experiments done on it and it is pretty much common sense. Also people who say prayers in times of illness are more likely to get better as a sort of placebo effect than someone who doesnt. But that can only work if your mind truly believes it, you cant really fake that.

Studies linking suicide and atheism are a LOT more complex than what you're making it out to be. I read a study a few years back by the Journal of Psychiatry, which actually turned out to be very dubious when a few of my friends and I examined it. Looked online and there's a recent rebuttal to it highlighting the flaws of its design, could be worth a read:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/5181

There are numerous studies suggesting that atheism leads to a happer life, less deppression and is generally just more beneficial for society. The thing with any of these studies is that it's near impossible to isolate just (non)belief and happiness/depression, and then establish a causation between them.

There are so many factors at play here that it's frankly laughable that anyone could say it's 'undeniable' or 'common sense' that believing a higher power looks out for them gives them more power psychologically. This is dependent on the individual. I won't deny that self delusion can help some people get through life, but for others, the notion of an overarching being watching every thought, move and then judging your life (to take the Judeo-Christian belief) is pretty frightening.

Have you also considered that atheists may be ostracised and isolated from family and the community in some places, especially for converts? The support system is pretty broken in some parts of the world, which could contribute in part to the depression some atheists feel. I know for sure that I felt extremely isolated when I converted and found it very difficult come to my (strict) family. That is not atheism's fault.

[-p.tiddy-]

Studies linking suicide and atheism are a LOT more complex than what you're making it out to be. I read a study a few years back by the Journal of Psychiatry, which actually turned out to be very dubious when a few of my friends and I examined it. Looked online and there's a recent rebuttal to it highlighting the flaws of its design, could be worth a read:

http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/archives/5181

There are numerous studies suggesting that atheism leads to a happer life, less deppression and is generally just more beneficial for society. The thing with any of these studies is that it's near impossible to isolate just (non)belief and happiness/depression, and then establish a causation between them.

There are so many factors at play here that it's frankly laughable that anyone could say it's 'undeniable' or 'common sense' that believing a higher power looks out for them gives them more power psychologically. This is dependent on the individual. I won't deny that self delusion can help some people get through life, but for others, the notion of an overarching being watching every thought, move and then judging your life (to take the Judeo-Christian belief) is pretty frightening.

Have you also considered that atheists may be ostracised and isolated from family and the community in some places, especially for converts? The support system is pretty broken in some parts of the world, which could contribute in part to the depression some atheists feel. I know for sure that I felt extremely isolated when I converted and found it very difficult come to my (strict) family. That is not atheism's fault.
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/religion-spirituality-and-mental-health
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sites/default/files/resize/pt/26535-350x243.png


I also know that spirituality has been shown to fight alcoholism and addiction issues better than anything else there is. Many psychologists won't even bother trying to treat an alcoholic or addict, they will just tell them to go to AA or NA which is based around finding your higher power. They do this because it works better than anything else.

[chosen_one6]

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/articles/religion-spirituality-and-mental-health
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/sites/default/files/resize/pt/26535-350x243.png


I also know that spirituality has been shown to fight alcoholism and addiction issues better than anything else there is. Many psychologists won't even bother trying to treat an alcoholic or addict, they will just tell them to go to AA or NA which is based around finding your higher power. They do this because it works better than anything else.

There are a lot of people that have gone through tragedies that end up no longer believing in a higher power because they cannot believe how their god could let something happen like that.

Just as an example, ESPN was running a story on Pat Tillman and the way he died. The one person that survived being shot at by his own troops said he gave up religion and resorted to drinking a ton to get over seeing his squad mate bleed out in front of him while trying to help his own against the opposition. Examples like these could be a reason why people that don't believe in religion have mental problems.