2005-2006 and 2006-2007 Kobe with Pau

[Ca$H]

What if Kobe had Pau during his peak and didn't waste it with Kwame, Smush, and Luke Walton as starters? Surely that is a guaranteed two more regular season MVPs, 2 more finals MVPs, and 2 more titles. Timing is everything. It's a damn shame that Kobe's peak was wasted.

[AirTupac]

GOAT status. What could have been :bowdown:

[blablabla]

They obviously win it all from 06-10 which means Kobe ends up with 8 rings 5 fmvps and about 3 mvps cementing goat status
a damn shame

[ImKobe]

Probably at least 1 more title if Kobe had a competent supporting cast from 05-10 instead of 08-10. Just look how damn great Kobe was in 2007.

Even in that Phoenix series in 07, he put up 33 5 4 on 46/36/92 shooting and they nearly got swept in that series. 07 was wide open in terms of anyone winning a title. 2008 Lakers would have destroyed the 07 Spurs like they destroyed the 08 Spurs in the WCF & that pathetic Cleveland Squad would have lost by 30 every game.

[1987_Lakers]

Who knows what would have happened, the Mavs got to the Finals in '06 and had the best record in the league in '07 with an average supporting cast around Dirk & a horrible coach. The West was wide open in those years.

[clutchinho]

They obviously win it all from 06-10 which means Kobe ends up with 8 rings 5 fmvps and about 3 mvps cementing goat status
a damn shame

What could have been... But 5 rings is still no joke

For some perspective, only THREE franchises have won more titles than Kobe.

[guy]

Too bad. Kobe didn't have at least an all-star level teammate for every single year of his 17 year career. Poor guy.

[blablabla]

What could have been... But 5 rings is still no joke

For some perspective, only THREE franchises have won more titles than Kobe.
in the end it doesn't matter real knowledgeable bball fans know how good kobe was and what he was capable of

[DMAVS41]

Don't see them winning in 06. Mavs and Spurs would have still been better...and the Heat in the finals would have been no joke either.

07 would have been a real possibility. It would depend on how the seedings broke down...the Mavs not having to play the Warriors could have changed everything.

The 07 Spurs are also a bit under-rated here. But there were only two teams as good as the Lakers would have been in the whole league and they might have only had to play one of them...so a title in 07 was a real possibility.

06 would have been a lot tougher though...

[SamuraiSWISH]

Who knows what would have happened, the Mavs got to the Finals in '06 and had the best record in the league in '07 with an average supporting cast around Dirk & a horrible coach. The West was wide open in those years.
No Mark Cuban team has ever been AVERAGE around Dirk Nowitzki, that's absurd and Avery Johnson wasn't a horrible coach either.

I wouldn't say the West was totally wide open. There was a lot of quality teams, just no dominant power houses like early 2000s Lakers, Kings, Mavs, Blazers, and Spurs.

Anyway to answer OP, Lakers in 2006, and 2007 w/ Gasol actually probably win the title. I don't think they'd win in 2008. Who knows if they would've then had the gas to win in 2009, and 2010 though.

2006 Finals v.s. Miami: Shaq / Wade v.s. Kobe / Gasol
2007 Finals v.s. Cleveland: LeBron v.s. Kobe / Gasol

Would've been absolutely EPIC to watch. I really wish we would've got to see that honestly.

[DMAVS41]

No Mark Cuban team has ever been AVERAGE around Dirk Nowitzki, that's absurd and Avery Johnson wasn't a horrible coach either. I wouldn't say the West was totally wide open. There was a lot of quality teams, just no dominant power houses like early 2000s Lakers, Kings, Blazers, and Spurs.

you are right that the 07 team was not "average"...but not special either;

Howard
Harris
Terry
Stack
Diop
Devean George

That was the team we ran with in the playoffs. LOL...



you could not be more wrong about Avery...he was not a good coach. it depends on how we are defining "horrible", but compared to championship level coaches...avery is definitely a really bad coach.

you give the 06 and 07 Mavs phil jackson or larry brown or doc rivers or even a guy like Carlisle...and we have at least 1 title

give those those teams popovich? I'd bet we win both.

there is reason avery doesn't have a job anymore...

[BlackVVaves]

Probably another ring at least.

Kobe with some help on the offensive end would probably put up less ppg, but on better efficiency.

Thing is though, I think it took those seasons of playing with pure garbage to inject insight into Kobe's mind. I think those years of being first round fodder with no help taught him how to better himself as a teammate and leader, so that once Pau came, he was able to cultivate a better relationship with him, which showed with their chemistry on the court.

[SamuraiSWISH]

there is reason avery doesn't have a job anymore...
Stan Van Gundy, Doug Collins, and JVG are bad coaches as well? You just compared them to 2x of the absolute best coaches ever. The best, definitively in the modern era (PJ, Pop, and Riley) ... of course he looks bad. But he was far from a horrendous coach. You think the 2006 Mavericks lost the Finals because of their coaching? And the point stands, no Mark Cuban roster has ever been average. Guy is a brillaint GM, willing to do, or spend whatever it takes to win. Because he actually cares about the product on the floor.

[BlackVVaves]

Stan Van Gundy, Doug Collins, and JVG are bad coaches as well? You just compared them to 2x of the absolute best coaches ever. The best, definitively in the modern era (PJ, Pop, and Riley) ... of course he looks bad. But he was far from a horrendous coach. You think the 2006 Mavericks lost the Finals because of their coaching? And the point stands, no Mark Cuban roster has ever been average. Guy is a brillaint GM, willing to do, or spend whatever it takes to win. Because he actually cares about the product on the floor.

Mark Cuban isn't the Mavs GM, he's the owner :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Stan Van Gundy, Doug Collins, and JVG are bad coaches as well? You just compared them to 2x of the absolute best coaches ever. The best, definitively in the modern era (PJ, Pop, and Riley) ... of course he looks bad. But he was far from a horrendous coach. You think the 2006 Mavericks lost the Finals because of their coaching? And the point stands, no Mark Cuban roster has ever been average. Guy is a brillaint GM, willing to do, or spend whatever it takes to win. Because he actually cares about the product on the floor.

Yes, I do think we lost in 06 because of his coaching. It was not good...certainly not Riley level. I said compared to championship coaches...which is the standard you are judging the Mavs on.

The 13 Mavs were average...nothing currently special about this roster the Mavs currently have either.

Cuban is not even the GM...LOL

And he is far from brilliant...he just spent a lot of money. He and Nellie JR. built flawed teams consistently post 03...LOL

You are so ignorant about the Mavs...you really need to get educated or stop talking about them.

[Heavincent]

Mark Cuban isn't the Mavs GM, he's the owner :confusedshrug:

I'm pretty sure he has a major impact on personnel decisions though. He's not just a clueless owner drinking wine in the press box. It's almost like the Jerry Jones situation, except Cuban is actually good at it and isn't an insufferable asshole.

Cuban is about as hands-on as it gets for an owner.

[clutchinho]

Probably another ring at least.

Kobe with some help on the offensive end would probably put up less ppg, but on better efficiency.

Thing is though, I think it took those seasons of playing with pure garbage to inject insight into Kobe's mind. I think those years of being first round fodder with no help taught him how to better himself as a teammate and leader, so that once Pau came, he was able to cultivate a better relationship with him, which showed with their chemistry on the court.

Good point, but I think 2004, Colorado and the Rudy T season would have taught him plenty about humility anyway, losing 4 years of your prime playing with scrubs in the stronger conference was way too big a price to pay for some perspective.

[DMAVS41]

I'm pretty sure he has a major impact on personnel decisions though. He's not just a clueless owner drinking wine in the press box. It's almost like the Jerry Jones situation, except Cuban is actually good at it and isn't an insufferable asshole.

Cuban is about as hands-on as it gets for an owner.

Wait...you guys are calling Cuban a "brilliant" team builder?

Holy ****ing shit...the ignorance on here. It's reaching all time levels.

Cuban just cut checks...that's all he did. He didn't build elite teams nor did he hire the right coach until Carlisle.

The rosters we had are so over-rated here post 2003....it's just laughable.

He didn't get a 2nd star or quality center from 04 through 10. 7 ****ing years without the two things you would want to win a title...and even worse, Avery, a bad coach, was at the helm of the peak Mavs. He lucked into Chandler in 11...and still has yet to get a legit championship 2nd option since the 03 season.

[guy]

No Mark Cuban team has ever been AVERAGE around Dirk Nowitzki, that's absurd and Avery Johnson wasn't a horrible coach either.

I wouldn't say the West was totally wide open. There was a lot of quality teams, just no dominant power houses like early 2000s Lakers, Kings, Mavs, Blazers, and Spurs.

Anyway to answer OP, Lakers in 2006, and 2007 w/ Gasol actually probably win the title. I don't think they'd win in 2008. Who knows if they would've then had the gas to win in 2009, and 2010 though.

2006 Finals v.s. Miami: Shaq / Wade v.s. Kobe / Gasol
2007 Finals v.s. Cleveland: LeBron v.s. Kobe / Gasol

Would've been absolutely EPIC to watch. I really wish we would've got to see that honestly.

I really doubt they get past the 06 Heat or the 07 Spurs. Those Lakers still don't have the depth and experience as those teams had. On top of that, in 06 Kobe wasn't that much better then Wade and Shaq would've been way more motivated to just kill the Lakers and 07 was probably Duncan's last great year and Parker would've killed them.

[SamuraiSWISH]

The rosters we had are so over-rated here post 2003....it's just laughable.
:biggums:

[Jameerthefear]

Kobe doesn't lead his team to championships. Probably no rings.

[Heavincent]

Wait...you guys are calling Cuban a "brilliant" team builder?

Holy ****ing shit...the ignorance on here. It's reaching all time levels.

Cuban just cut checks...that's all he did. He didn't build elite teams nor did he hire the right coach until Carlisle.

The rosters we had are so over-rated here post 2003....it's just laughable.

The Mavs have been a perennial playoff team for over a decade now, with 2 Finals appearances and a ring. I'd say Cuban and the front office did alright :confusedshrug:

Why are you so mad that someone complimented your favorite team's front office stability and sustained success? :lol

[Ca$H]

I really doubt they get past the 06 Heat or the 07 Spurs. Those Lakers still don't have the depth and experience as those teams had. On top of that, in 06 Kobe wasn't that much better then Wade and Shaq would've been way more motivated to just kill the Lakers and 07 was probably Duncan's last great year and Parker would've killed them.

Shaq was terrible in the finals plus I don't think the refs favor wade over Kobe in the finals. Kobe(with ref help) + Gasol over Wade(no ref help) + declining Shaq. The Lakers beat the Spurs in 2008 with Duncan playing very well actually. The combo of Kobe and Phil has actually dominated the combo of Duncan and Pop in the playoffs. I don't see how 2007 would be any different from the norm.:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

:biggums:

Great response.

No all nba teammates for Dirk. No legit championship 2nd option like all the other title teams have. And poor center play....

This is the dude that signed Haywood to the big contract. Signed Dampier over Nash. Went with Avery at the time of Dirk's athletic prime....

Those are horrible decisions.

Take a look at the 2nd best player and coaches of all the teams winning titles.

99 - Pop and Robinson
00/01/02 - PJ and Kobe
03 - Pop and Parker (yes...too bad Dirk wasn't as good as peak Duncan)
04 - Larry Brown Hamilton/Billups
05 - Pop and Manu
06 - Riley and Shaq
07 - Pop and Parker
08 - Rivers and Pierce
09/10 - PJ and Gasol
12/13 - Spo and Wade


The Mavs do not compare to that shit. You need a 2nd level star and at least quality coaching. All those coaches besides Spo are proven greats...and Spo is a quality coach in his own right, but even better with Riley in his ear all the time. And he had Wade/Bosh around a top 8 GOAT in his prime.

You tell me how Cuban is a brilliant team builder? All he did was make some big mistakes and cover it up with cutting checks. He spent a lot of money...that is what he did.

RC Buford is brilliant...GTFO with this Cuban shit.

He never once post 03 (the 03 team was great though) gave Dirk the kind of rosters that other franchises were winning with around their stars until 2011...and even then it's only because we won. Nobody thought that was a championship roster until we won and got hot...

[DMAVS41]

The Mavs have been a perennial playoff team for over a decade now, with 2 Finals appearances and a ring. I'd say Cuban and the front office did alright :confusedshrug:

Why are you so mad that someone complimented your favorite team's front office stability and sustained success? :lol

Mad?

He is holding the Mavs to a championship standard...LOL

I love Cuban...he's helped turn around my team. But he also made a lot of mistakes and he's not a brilliant team builder. He just was willing to spend a lot of money.

And, when you have Dirk...you put just about any roster around him and you are going to get to around 50 wins. Shit..how much more evidence do we need. He's done it playing different styles with different players and coaches for like 14 years now.

It depends on the standard. If you are just saying that Cuban built playoff caliber rosters most years. Yes...absolutely. If you are talking about holding the Mavs to title level standards...Cuban absolutely did not build those types of teams after the 03 season. And really 03 was the only year he did it.

That is the difference. You can't bemoan the Mavs not winning..and then turn around and call Cuban and Nellie Jr. brilliant team builders. Just no. Now, if you are saying that they put 50 or so win talent on the teams? Absolutely...they did a great job of that.

But that wasn't the goal...the goal was to win. And you don't win many titles with the kind of teams and coaches they put around Dirk.

[BBallZen83]

Trolololol. Either Kobe doesn't win crap and he sucks, or he rivals 60's Celtics and cements GOAT. At least there is a sprinkling of reasonable comments as usual.

Personally, I think Kobe could have beasted on the 07 Spurs as in the past and definitely handled the Cavs in the finals. So 07 is a possibility. Only other Chip I see.

[Heavincent]

And, when you have Dirk...you put just about any roster around him and you are going to get to around 50 wins. Shit..how much more evidence do we need. He's done it playing different styles with different players and coaches for like 14 years now.

Knew this would come up. Plenty of teams throughout history have had a superstar and have jack shit to show for it. Magic had Shaq, Wolves had KG, Cavs had Lebron, etc. Cuban was good enough to keep Dirk around for his entire career and put enough talent around him to get 2 Finals appearances and a ring out of it.

[BBallZen83]

...And 3 chips as the help and 3 chips as the man definitely gives him an argument for top 5 IMO.

[robert de niro]

Too bad. Kobe didn't have at least an all-star level teammate for every single year of his 17 year career. Poor guy.
:lol

[DMAVS41]

Knew this would come up. Plenty of teams throughout history have had a superstar and have jack shit to show for it. Magic had Shaq, Wolves had KG, Cavs had Lebron, etc. Cuban was good enough to keep Dirk around for his entire career and put enough talent around him to get 2 Finals appearances and a ring out of it.

agreed.

you guys...and this site overall...really need to learn that there are differences in stuff. there are varying degrees.

Cuban is neither poor nor brilliant. Overall he did a good job putting talent around Dirk...he just didn't do a good job putting championship level talent and coaching around Dirk for much of his career post the 03 season.

[PickernRoller]

Don't see them winning in 06. Mavs and Spurs would have still been better...and the Heat in the finals would have been no joke either.

07 would have been a real possibility. It would depend on how the seedings broke down...the Mavs not having to play the Warriors could have changed everything.

The 07 Spurs are also a bit under-rated here. But there were only two teams as good as the Lakers would have been in the whole league and they might have only had to play one of them...so a title in 07 was a real possibility.

06 would have been a lot tougher though...

Lol please the same Mavs that Kobe dropped 61 in three quarters sending the fake MVP packing.... I don't see any of those clowns in that team stopping him w/ Pau. The Suns couldn't stop him either....Suns just outscore the Lakers as a whole at every turn. It's a team sport after all. I mean the series with the Suns boiled down to a single f'cking rebound....which Pau could have gotten.

I'll give the Spurs a chance but given the precedent of the past - Kobe feasts on any version of the Spurs.

2 more rings, 2 more FMVPs, least 1 more League MVP.

I remember the league crying when Pau went to the Lakers. GM's comments after the trade were disgusting and cowardly....they knew what was coming.

[DMAVS41]

Lol please the same Mavs that Kobe dropped 61 in three quarters and sending the fake MVP packing....

I'll give you the Spurs having a chance but giving the precedent of the past - Kobe feasts on the Spurs.

2 more rings, 2 more FMVPs, least 1 more League MVP.

It's not just the Mavs.

The Spurs in 06 were better than the Mavs...and certainly would match up better against the Lakers than the Mavs would have.

And the Heat were no joke. Shaq was better than Gasol...and they were coached by Riley. The Lakers might have had to beat 3 teams en route to the title they would be roughly even with. That is really really hard....

07 is a much better chance. They might only have to play 1 team they are even with...I just think the Spurs would have been better in 07...and the Spurs actually had a player in Manu that could make Kobe work. And Duncan would have abused Gasol...

[BBallZen83]

agreed.

you guys...and this site overall...really need to learn that there are differences in stuff. there are varying degrees.

Cuban is neither poor nor brilliant. Overall he did a good job putting talent around Dirk...he just didn't do a good job putting championship level talent and coaching around Dirk for much of his career post the 03 season.

You mean everything isn't black and white and extreme hyperbole?
:cheers:

[PickernRoller]

It's not just the Mavs.

The Spurs in 06 were better than the Mavs...and certainly would match up better against the Lakers than the Mavs would have.

And the Heat were no joke. Shaq was better than Gasol...and they were coached by Riley. The Lakers might have had to beat 3 teams en route to the title they would be roughly even with. That is really really hard....

07 is a much better chance. They might only have to play 1 team they are even with...I just think the Spurs would have been better in 07...and the Spurs actually had a player in Manu that could make Kobe work. And Duncan would have abused Gasol...

Ohh I can see how 07 would be easier I agree. I just don't think competition in 06 would have prevented a Kobe/Gasol combo from trashing the West.

The Mavs/Heat series came down to Wade's FT's which was disgusting so I am not sure he would have been a problem. Moreso when Wade is Kobe's pigeon - that is, Kobe locks him up if he really wants to.

Actually Bowen would be guarding Kobe , most of the time. Reason being that Manu was half the defender Bowen was....so that idea is flawed. Bowen couldn't stop him, much less Manu.

Duncan abused Gasol in 08 per say....didn't change the outcome of the series now did it?

[ImKobe]

It's not just the Mavs.

The Spurs in 06 were better than the Mavs...and certainly would match up better against the Lakers than the Mavs would have.

And the Heat were no joke. Shaq was better than Gasol...and they were coached by Riley. The Lakers might have had to beat 3 teams en route to the title they would be roughly even with. That is really really hard....

07 is a much better chance. They might only have to play 1 team they are even with...I just think the Spurs would have been better in 07...and the Spurs actually had a player in Manu that could make Kobe work. And Duncan would have abused Gasol...

Duncan did abuse Gasol in 08, he put up some monster numbers on LA's front court (I believe something along the lines of 22 ppg 17 rpg 5 apg), Manu I think had the best regular season of his career and was decent up until the WCF, where Kobe shut his ass down. Manu probably had the worst PO series in his prime in that series.

[Ca$H]

It's not just the Mavs.

The Spurs in 06 were better than the Mavs...and certainly would match up better against the Lakers than the Mavs would have.

And the Heat were no joke. Shaq was better than Gasol...and they were coached by Riley. The Lakers might have had to beat 3 teams en route to the title they would be roughly even with. That is really really hard....

07 is a much better chance. They might only have to play 1 team they are even with...I just think the Spurs would have been better in 07...and the Spurs actually had a player in Manu that could make Kobe work. And Duncan would have abused Gasol...

He did in the 2008 WCF and the Lakers still won in five games. Gasol 13.2 and 9.6. Duncan 22.4 and 17.4. Duncan actually got more help from Parker and Ginobilli than Kobe did from pau and odom since they outperformed Gasol and Odom.

[Milbuck]

It's not just the Mavs.

The Spurs in 06 were better than the Mavs...and certainly would match up better against the Lakers than the Mavs would have.

And the Heat were no joke. Shaq was better than Gasol...and they were coached by Riley. The Lakers might have had to beat 3 teams en route to the title they would be roughly even with. That is really really hard....

07 is a much better chance. They might only have to play 1 team they are even with...I just think the Spurs would have been better in 07...and the Spurs actually had a player in Manu that could make Kobe work. And Duncan would have abused Gasol...
In 2006-07 Gasol averaged 20/5/3 against TD, TD averaged 16/9/3 against Gasol. Pau also put up 21/10/3/2/1 on 54/27/75 shooting (59% TS) with 24.1 PER in 06-07. It's no certainty that he'd get "abused"...

[DMAVS41]

Duncan did abuse Gasol in 08, he put up some monster numbers on LA's front court (I believe something along the lines of 22 ppg 17 rpg 5 apg), Manu I think had the best regular season of his career and was decent up until the WCF, where Kobe shut his ass down. Manu probably had the worst PO series in his prime in that series.

Manu was hurt in the 08 WCF...and the Spurs were just a worse team overall that year in the playoffs that year in my opinion.

But you can't ignore Manu being hobbled in the WCF...

[Ca$H]

Duncan did abuse Gasol in 08, he put up some monster numbers on LA's front court (I believe something along the lines of 22 ppg 17 rpg 5 apg), Manu I think had the best regular season of his career and was decent up until the WCF, where Kobe shut his ass down. Manu probably had the worst PO series in his prime in that series.

LOL. I pretty much posted the same thing. Duncan mythologists/Kobe haters just refuse to accept the facts. Kobe beats Duncan's A$$ in the playoffs.

[DMAVS41]

In 2006-07 Gasol averaged 20/5/3 against TD, TD averaged 16/9/3 against Gasol. Pau also put up 21/10/3/2/1 on 54/27/75 shooting (59% TS) with 24.1 PER in 06-07. I find it hard to believe that coached under PJax and playing in the triangle, Pau would get "abused" by Duncan..

Actually, part of the reason would be the triangle and PJ...they asked a lot of Gasol in that system and playing with kobe...going against Duncan.

I think the 08 playoffs is a much better indication of how they would play against each other considering they had similar teams and Gasol was playing the role he would have in 07

Gasol - 13/10/4

Duncan - 22/17/5

Don't you think that series is more relevant here than what they did against each other in 07 with Gasol on a different team entirely?

[DMAVS41]

He did in the 2008 WCF and the Lakers still won in five games. Gasol 13.2 and 9.6. Duncan 22.4 and 17.4. Duncan actually got more help from Parker and Ginobilli than Kobe did from pau and odom since they outperformed Gasol and Odom.

Did you guys start watching ball in 2011 or something? Do you guys realize that Manu was hurt in that series?

They were playing the corpses of Brent Barry and Michael Finley like 40 minutes per game.

[Ca$H]

Manu was hurt in the 08 WCF...and the Spurs were just a worse team overall that year in the playoffs that year in my opinion.

But you can't ignore Manu being hobbled in the WCF...

You can't ignore that the combo of Parker and Ginobilli outperformed Gasol and Odom in the 2008 WCF but the Lakers still won in five games. Kobe and Phil just owns Duncan and POP in the playoffs. Just accept that fact. BTW Gino played 160 min. while Odom played 168 min.

[Jlamb47]

You can't ignore that the combo of Parker and Ginobilli outperformed Gasol and Odom in the 2008 WCF but the Lakers still won in five games. Kobe and Phil just owns Duncan and POP in the playoffs. Just accept that fact.

They dont own duncan and Pop
if so they wouldnt have won 4 rings together

[DMAVS41]

You can't ignore that the combo of Parker and Ginobilli outperformed Gasol and Odom in the 2008 WCF but the Lakers still won in five games. Kobe and Phil just owns Duncan and POP in the playoffs. Just accept that fact.

Can't ignore it? If Manu had been healthy...it would have been by much more. That is the point.

You make it sound like I'm saying the Lakers couldn't win. I just merely said I would favor the 07 Spurs. They were healthy and just better in 07 than they were in 08.

Also, the Lakers won the majority of their series against the Spurs with Shaq.

Kobe is 18-12 against Duncan in the playoffs for his career. And 25 of those games came with Shaq...and in the 5 without him...Manu was injured.

I don't think that is honestly enough information to just assume the Lakers win...

[PickernRoller]

Can't ignore it? If Manu had been healthy...it would have been by much more. That is the point.

You make it sound like I'm saying the Lakers couldn't win. I just merely said I would favor the 07 Spurs. They were healthy and just better in 07 than they were in 08.

Also, the Lakers won the majority of their series against the Spurs with Shaq.

Kobe is 18-12 against Duncan in the playoffs for his career. And 25 of those games came with Shaq...and in the 5 without him...Manu was injured.

I don't think that is honestly enough information to just assume the Lakers win...

Obviously we are talking hypotheticals here.

I will still take Kobe, Pau, Odom and Fisher from 06-10 over Duncan, Manu, Parker and Bowen any day of the week.

Specially when you consider we are talking about 06-07 Kobe here. The human torch.

[DMAVS41]

Obviously we are talking hypotheticals here.

I will still take Kobe, Pau, Odom and Fisher from 06-10 over Duncan, Manu, Parker and Bowen any day of the week.

Specially when you consider we are talking about 06-07 Kobe here. The human torch.

Well, I'd definitely take them from 08 through 10.

Absolutely not in 06. The Spurs were great in 06...the 06 Lakers with Gasol are still not on the caliber of the 06 Spurs. That doesn't mean they couldn't upset them or win, but it would have been damn tough.

They have a much better chance in 07...I totally agree with you there.

[PickernRoller]

Well, I'd definitely take them from 08 through 10.

Absolutely not in 06. The Spurs were great in 06...the 06 Lakers with Gasol are still not on the caliber of the 06 Spurs. That doesn't mean they couldn't upset them or win, but it would have been damn tough.

They have a much better chance in 07...I totally agree with you there.

It's a big hypothetical, no right or wrong answer other than informed speculation.

It would have depended on playoff seeding too. For a second imagine the Mavs and the Spurs in the same bracket. If we go by what happened in the West that year the Mavs beat the Spurs. Lakers beating the Mavs would of been an easier task given the match ups.

A lot of "If"

[DMAVS41]

It's a big hypothetical, no right or wrong answer other than informed speculation.

It would have depended on playoff seeding too. For a second imagine the Mavs and the Spurs in the same bracket. If we go by what happened in the West that year the Mavs beat the Spurs. Lakers beating the Mavs would of been an easier task given the match ups.

A lot of "If"

Yea, but even then, you have to beat the Heat in the finals. And I'm not willing to just grant a for sure win over the Mavs either...

Both are not impossible or for sure, but the road in 07 was most likely going to be far easier.

[tpols]

so basically competition on par with 08-10.. slightly harder western conference but easier Finals (C's>cavs and heat), except kobe is peaking instead of being at the end of his prime.. nothing short of championships would be a failure.

Its the same team.. Kobe/Pau/Odom + shooters except Kobe is better in those years and pau wouldve been about the same in that second option role.

[BlackVVaves]

A more interesting and realistic hypothetical, as it was rumored at the time, is what if the Lakers would have bit the bullet for trading him within the same conference, and had sent Shaq to Dallas for Dirk?

[PickernRoller]

A more interesting and realistic hypothetical, as it was rumored at the time, is what if the Lakers would have bit the bullet for trading him within the same conference, and had sent Shaq to Dallas for Dirk?

06-10 sweep without a question.

[BlackVVaves]

06-10 sweep without a question.

LoL, don't know about a 5 peat brother, but definitely dominates that time frame. More importantly, 2011 would have also possibly ended different for the Lakers.

Say Dirk gets 3-4 rings playing alongside Kobe. Is he Top 8?

[DMAVS41]

so basically competition on par with 08-10.. slightly harder western conference but easier Finals (C's>cavs and heat), except kobe is peaking instead of being at the end of his prime.. nothing short of championships would be a failure.

Its the same team.. Kobe/Pau/Odom + shooters except Kobe is better in those years and pau wouldve been about the same in that second option role.

Well yea...but we are only talking about two years here...06 and 07.

06 is certainly harder than 07.

Also, the 06 Heat were better than the 09 Magic...considerably better in my opinion.

06 would be something like a 30% chance depending on the road. Could easily have to beat the Mavs, Spurs, and then the Heat. That is one of the toughest roads ever.

07 would be easier, but there were still 3 solid teams in the conference in the Mavs, Suns, and Spurs. But you are obviously right about the finals being a joke.

So it would depend on the seedings and road to get through the conference in 06. If they have to beat the Mavs, Spurs, and Heat...I don't give them a great chance.

Better chance in 07, but if they'd still have to beat a 07 Spurs team that was just better than the 08 team. The 07 Spurs played better defense and offense than the 08 team. It's hardly a sure thing.

The 07 Spurs, in my opinion, have become a bit undervalued here. And I think it's mainly because of the weak competition in the finals and with the Mavs getting upset.

They had an expected record of 64-18 and had the 5th best offense and 2nd best defense in the league. And they were healthy pretty much start to finish iirc. That team was better than a lot remember...

[DMAVS41]

06-10 sweep without a question.

Nah, they could have still lost to the 06/07 Spurs and the 08 Celtics.

They win at least 3 titles from 06 through 10 though...with the potential of 4.

If you did it from 06 through 11...I think they win 4.

Kobe is top 3 all time and Dirk would be top 8...LOL at how different NBA history would be.

[K Xerxes]

Nice hypothetical. I can think of an even better one. Garnett doesn't get injured and the Celtics 3 peat. Kobe's legacy ends with no FMVPs and Garnett is probably seen as all time better.

In all seriousness though, statements like 'they would have won easily every year' is just absurd. Best case scenario is they win 06 and 07. They're not beating the Boston Big 3 in 2008, but they still make the finals. You're looking at them making 5 straight finals in the 06-10 period and that's a lot to ask. Just look at how tired the Heat look in their quest for a 4th straight final.

[DMAVS41]

Nice hypothetical. I can think of an even better one. Garnett doesn't get injured and the Celtics 3 peat. Kobe's legacy ends with no FMVPs and Garnett is probably seen as all time better.

In all seriousness though, statements like 'they would have won easily every year' is just absurd. Best case scenario is they win 06 and 07. They're not beating the Boston Big 3 in 2008, but they still make the finals. You're looking at them making 5 straight finals in the 06-10 period and that's a lot to ask. Just look at how tired the Heat look in their quest for a 4th straight final.

For sure about KG. Shit, they were up 3-2 on the Magic without him.

One thing is for sure, the Finals in 09 would have been legendary either way with a healthy KG. It would have either been Lebron vs Kobe...or the rematch Lakers vs Celtics.

We really got robbed of a historic finals in 09 with the KG injury...

[TheMarkMadsen]

Kobe & Dirk from 06-11 is 4 titles. 06 & 07, 09, 10. Possibly 11 but by then they both would have been pretty fatigued.

Good luck closing out a team that has dirk and Kobe in crunch time.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe & Dirk from 06-11 is 4 titles. 06 & 07, 09, 10. Possibly 11 but by then they both would have been pretty fatigued.

Good luck closing out a team that has dirk and Kobe in crunch time.


Could you imagine? Imagine all the wide open shots Dirk would get playing with Kobe.

And conversely, imagine how much space Kobe would have to work with...with Dirk drawing a big 25 feet from the basket.

Imagine the pick and roll!

So sick...

[BlackVVaves]

Nah, they could have still lost to the 06/07 Spurs and the 08 Celtics.

They win at least 3 titles from 06 through 10 though...with the potential of 4.

If you did it from 06 through 11...I think they win 4.

Kobe is top 3 all time and Dirk would be top 8...LOL at how different NBA history would be.

This is what I think as well. Spurs and Celtics would still qualify as formidable opponents.

Man, shit would have changed NBA history. Kind of like if Barkley had gone to LA in the late 80s like it was rumored back then.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Could you imagine? Imagine all the wide open shots Dirk would get playing with Kobe.

And conversely, imagine how much space Kobe would have to work with...with Dirk drawing a big 25 feet from the basket.

Imagine the pick and roll!

So sick...

It would have been incredible. And unlike the super teams of today, I don't see Dirk or Kobe having to sacrifice their individual success to be able to work together.

Obviously Kobe doesn't average 35ppg but I could see Kobe averaging 27-30 while Dirk averages 25-27 for some of those years and possibly splitting MVPS in 06 & 07

[DMAVS41]

It would have been incredible. And unlike the super teams of today, I don't see Dirk or Kobe having to sacrifice their individual success to be able to work together.

Obviously Kobe doesn't average 35ppg but I could see Kobe averaging 27-30 while Dirk averages 25-27 for some of those years and possibly splitting MVPS in 06 & 07

Their averages, especially in the playoffs...would have actually just been better because the efficiency would have been sick.

I don't think Dirk could ever win MVP on Kobe led team though. This pairing would have done more for Kobe's legacy than Dirk's in the regard of MVP's and regular season stuff in my opinion.

Dirk only shoots like 17 or 18 shots a game in the playoffs to begin with...he could easily get 15 or 16 with Kobe. Gasol was getting like 13 a game in the playoffs next to Kobe playing only inside.

Dirk is getting at least 3 or 4 threes a game playing on those Lakers teams...

From 06 through 12...Dirk was a 27/10/3 60% TS player (18 shots per game) in the playoffs If he plays with Kobe during that time...I think 24/11/3 65% TS is about what he would have done.

[Ca$H]

GOAT status. What could have been :bowdown:

Definitely. Kobe would have 3 MVPs, 7 rings, and 4 FMVPs. Timing is everything. Kobe having to play with Smush Parker, Kwame Brown, and Luke Walton as starters during his absolute peak is a travesty.

[feyki]

Mvp's wouldn't change . LA could have been 07 championship .

No big changes , maybe one more ring and fmvp for Kobe ( and against Lebron , bonus for Kobe fans ) .