Stop saying "Bosh is a 20/10 player on his own team"

[Connor B]

Just stop. I'm tired of hearing this argument to rationalize why Bosh is a star. It doesn't matter what he would be, his reality now is being a third option on a Heat team and somehow averaging less rebounds than Lebron. He currently does 14/7, about the same numbers Ibaka does, who also plays with two other all-star options.

If Bosh we're really a 20/10 all star, you'd think he would get slightly beter stats since he does get a fair amount of touches and is their tallest player who consistently plays center (so where's the rebounds?)

Stop trying to say Bosh is an all-star. In the west he isn't, in the east its already questionable. This guy is no where near 3rd team all NBA.

[Jameerthefear]

Maybe a year or two ago, but it's pretty obvious Bosh isn't capable of putting up 20/10 anymore. Just my opinion.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Bosh on his own team won 3 playoff games in 7 seasons. His impact on winning games has always been overrated. No matter how s.hitty he plays, he always get excuses it seems.

[kurple]

heat are so ****ing stacked its sickening

[fpliii]

He probably is, but the numbers don't mean all that much. A (pretty much) finished Gasol put up 17/10 this year.

Bost is obviously not a superstar, though.

[TheMarkMadsen]

True. He's a 24/10 guy who led his team to the playoffs the year before joining wade.

24/10. Get it right people

[Jameerthefear]

I mean Bosh has only 9 games this season with 10+ rebounds. I think he's more like 18/7 on around 46-47% on his own team imo.

[buddha]

how many plays are run for Bosh?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Playing with LeBron/Wade doesn't give you an excuse for getting shitted on by opposing centers and not rebounding.

[SilkkTheShocker]

True. He's a 24/10 guy who led his team to the playoffs the year before joining wade.

24/10. Get it right people

3 playoff wins before Miami. Another Kobe stan sugarcoating Bosh's struggles

[Legends66NBA7]

True. He's a 24/10 guy who led his team to the playoffs the year before joining wade.

Um, no he didn't.

[Trollsmasher]

:applause:

I especially don't get how somebody can claim that Bosh would miraculously average 3 more rebounds just because he would be the 1st option:hammerhead:

Takes a special level of idiocy

[TMT]

If you center an offense around him like they did in Toronto, he's a 20ppg player at least. But he isn't put in the same situations as he was in Toronto and has resorted to becoming mostly Lebron's jumpshooting puppet. There's no explanation for the rebounding though.

[imdaman99]

3 playoff wins before Miami. Another Kobe stan sugarcoating Bosh's struggles
3 playoff wins? That's 3 more than Pau Gasol :roll:

[T_L_P]

Playing with LeBron/Wade doesn't give you an excuse for getting shitted on by opposing centers and not rebounding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhm0wcwn0c

When your star player is a regular season stat padder, you do have an excuse.

I imagine LeBron sat Bosh down before the 2011 season and told him, "Those rebounds. They're going to me."

[SilkkTheShocker]

Apparently if you center your offense around him, the Heat will suddenly be good enough to win 3 playoff games in 7 years :applause:

Why hasn't Spo thought of this yet?

[SilkkTheShocker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhm0wcwn0c

When your star player is a regular season stat padder, you do have an excuse.

I imagine LeBron sat Bosh down before the 2011 season and told him, "Those rebounds. They're going to me."

Still bitter from last summer I see. Let it go, dude.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Um, no he didn't.

Three not the :cheers:

and they would have made the playoff in 10 if Bosh is healthy for 10 extra games imo

[oarabbus]

This topic brought to you by Connor B, from the BuzzFeed & ViralNova school of thread titles

[TMT]

Apparently if you center your offense around him, the Heat will suddenly be good enough to win 3 playoff games in 7 years :applause:

Why hasn't Spo thought of this yet?

Obviously it isn't a successful formula. But the dude can get his when he's not just sitting on the perimeter waiting to catch and shoot. Lebron has had a habit of changing his teammates into "wait, watch and shoot if he passes to me" kind of players throughout his career and that's no different with Bosh. Wade has probably been the only guy who this hasn't happened to. :lol

[kennethgriffin]

how quickly people forget




there were 3 guys on that wwe stage.. remember.. the not 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 thing was said with bosh 2 feet away

why are they called the big 3?




it wasnt the duo.. it wasnt the combo... it wasnt the 1/2 punch


chris bosh in his last 5 years in toronto was putting up 22-23ppg+ with 10rpg


him and wade turning themselves into kick stand's to prop up lebrons legacy made this whole thing possible.. they envited themselves to become pippens. they wanted to throw away their careers willfully to get absolutely no credit and just help lebrons all time ranking


if bosh continued his pace and never won a ring. had a career average of 22ppg/10+rpg with 10 allstar starts and maybe a few 1st team all nba's... he might have cracked the top 30 all time...

but since he wanted tag along rings. hes now going to go down as maybe top 80-90 all time...


sometimes rings are only worth selling out for if you already establish yourself as a dominant force in the league for many years. bosh was maybe 3-4 years away from that.. so was wade... they sold out way to fast and both are paying for it


now people think bosh is a scrub... so was it worth it? hell no. chris bosh is a moron

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron James Pre-2010 - Finals appearance, 2 ECF appearances, multiple 2nd round appearances.

Wade Pre-2010 - ECF appearance, 06 Finals Championship

Bosh pre-2010- 3 Playoffs wins


Clearly, the offense should be run through Bosh

[Myth]

I don't think Bosh is a 20/10 player anymore just because of rebounds. His rebounds have continued to decrease since his first season in Miami, and he was barely a 10rpg guy in the first place. I do think he would still average over 20 ppg though.

[Trollsmasher]

Lebron James Pre-2010 - Finals appearance, 2 ECF appearances, multiple 2nd round appearances.

Wade Pre-2010 - ECF appearance, 06 Finals Championship

Bosh pre-2010- 3 Playoffs wins


Clearly, the offense should be run through Bosh
rebounding should be run through Bosh too:lol

[kennethgriffin]

Lebron James Pre-2010 - Finals appearance, 2 ECF appearances, multiple 2nd round appearances.

Wade Pre-2010 - ECF appearance, 06 Finals Championship

Bosh pre-2010- 3 Playoffs wins


Clearly, the offense should be run through Bosh

how many 50 win teams did lebron beat in the playoffs by 2010?


kobe beat 4 just that year alone... lol

[TMT]

Lebron James Pre-2010 - Finals appearance, 2 ECF appearances, multiple 2nd round appearances.

Wade Pre-2010 - ECF appearance, 06 Finals Championship

Bosh pre-2010- 3 Playoffs wins


Clearly, the offense should be run through Bosh

Next this guy is going to say that Lebron had a worse supporting cast in Cleveland than Bosh did in Toronto. :oldlol:

[kurple]

Playing with LeBron/Wade doesn't give you an excuse for getting shitted on by opposing centers and not rebounding.
well bosh is forced to shoot 3's more and more to open the floor for his belowed teammates. when he is one of the most skiller bigmen in the league

i'm sure standing at the 3pt line spreading the floor affect his rebounding

[Trollsmasher]

well bosh is forced to shoot 3's more and more to open the floor for his belowed teammates. when he is one of the most skiller bigmen in the league

i'm sure standing at the 3pt line spreading the floor affect his rebounding
nobody wants him to get 3 offensive rebounds per game

floor spreading (which also comes from his own initiative most of the time, because he is a bitch) does not explain how the guy grabbed 3 defensive boards per game last year against Indy

[Clyde]

well bosh is forced to shoot 3's more and more to open the floor for his belowed teammates. when he is one of the most skiller bigmen in the league

i'm sure standing at the 3pt line spreading the floor affect his rebounding

agreed. he doesn't get to be as close to the paint as he once was.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Obviously it isn't a successful formula. But the dude can get his when he's not just sitting on the perimeter waiting to catch and shoot. Lebron has had a habit of changing his teammates into "wait, watch and shoot if he passes to me" kind of players throughout his career and that's no different with Bosh. Wade has probably been the only guy who this hasn't happened to. :lol

Which players that played with LeBron in Cleveland suddenly got a lot better? Boozer became an all-star player. But even his numbers improved from the year before, playing in the one season LeBron was there. Danny Green is a nice role player, but problem was Brown never played him in Cleveland. Bosh put up his Shareef Abdur-Rahim esque stat lines on mediocre teams. You can blame talent, but Wade and LeBron both carried some crap squads to the playoffs. Especially LeBron in 06-08 and Wade in 09-10.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Next this guy is going to say that Lebron had a worse supporting cast in Cleveland than Bosh did in Toronto. :oldlol:

LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland was terrible. They literally lost 26 straight games when he left.

[20Four]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhm0wcwn0c

All lebron is, is a STAT whore...I remember this game too....you already won the game....and that nikka still want's a Triple Double :roll: :roll:

[TMT]

Which players that played with LeBron in Cleveland suddenly got a lot better? Boozer became an all-star player. But even his numbers improved from the year before, playing in the one season LeBron was there. Danny Green is a nice role player, but problem was Brown never played him in Cleveland. Bosh put up his Shareef Abdur-Rahim esque stat lines on mediocre teams. You can blame talent, but Wade and LeBron both carried some crap squads to the playoffs. Especially LeBron in 06-08 and Wade in 09-10.

You are literally just strengthening my argument. :confusedshrug:

[SilkkTheShocker]

how many 50 win teams did lebron beat in the playoffs by 2010?


kobe beat 4 just that year alone... lol

Who is talking about Kobe? LeBron is a better player than he ever was. Dude has the same amount of Finals MVPs in several less seasons. With 3 more MVPs. Your favorite player was first round fodder unless he had the most stacked frontcourt in the league and the best coach ever. How do you miss the playoffs with Lamar Odom and Caron Butler?

[TMT]

LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland was terrible. They literally lost 26 straight games when he left.

Please don't tell me you think what Lebron had was worse than what Bosh had. :oldlol:

[SilkkTheShocker]

You are literally just strengthening my argument. :confusedshrug:

How? You realize that most of the players LeBron played with in Cleveland were veterans, right? Which young players went on to do big things without LeBron? Gibson, Pavlovic, and Hickson are the only ones I can think of. And two of the 3 fell of the face of the planet. And Hickson was considered future all-star at one point playing with LeBron.Your boy Danny Green was their a year, but Brown didn't play him much.

[Solefade]

Please don't tell me you think what Lebron had was worse than what Bosh had. :oldlol:


Bosh did have better than what lebron had...:rolleyes:


at least bosh had prime anthony parker :oldlol:

[TMT]

How? You realize that most of the players LeBron played with in Cleveland were veterans, right? Which young players went on to do big things without LeBron? Gibson, Pavlovic, and Hickson are the only ones I can think of. Your boy Danny Green was their a year, but Brown didn't play him much.

So your argument is that unless Lebron is playing with youth that have a promising future, he can't make them better? :lol

[Sarcastic]

Just about every player that has played with Lebron has seen his stats decrease, except for Mo Williams.

[K Xerxes]

He'd be a 20-25ppg player on a bad team easily. Playing with Wade and James has clearly affected his ppg since he's camped on the perimeter a lot of the time, gets less touches and develops no rhythm.

His defensive rebounds per game have dropped since coming to Miami, and it makes for worse viewing in the playoffs (especially last year... 3drpg wtf?). That's really inexplicable since he's not camped out in the perimeter on defense. Since he plays as a 5 more now, you'd think they might even go up, but that's not the case. So either he's lost his ability to rebound or he's doing a hell of a job boxing out... which also clearly isn't the case because he continues to get raped by the opposition bigs on the glass.

In his defence, his ORPG has dropped since coming to Miami, which makes sense. But his DRPG should not be dropping.

[SilkkTheShocker]

So your argument is that unless Lebron is playing with youth that have a promising future, he can't make them better? :lol

I am saying that most of the players LeBron played with in Cleveland were veterans. Who were either past their prime or were simply 3 pt. specialists. In other words, LIMITED players.

[DMAVS41]

Just stop. I'm tired of hearing this argument to rationalize why Bosh is a star. It doesn't matter what he would be, his reality now is being a third option on a Heat team and somehow averaging less rebounds than Lebron. He currently does 14/7, about the same numbers Ibaka does, who also plays with two other all-star options.

If Bosh we're really a 20/10 all star, you'd think he would get slightly beter stats since he does get a fair amount of touches and is their tallest player who consistently plays center (so where's the rebounds?)

Stop trying to say Bosh is an all-star. In the west he isn't, in the east its already questionable. This guy is no where near 3rd team all NBA.

If you put current Bosh on the Lakers this year...or any number of bad teams or even average ones.

He could easily be a 22/9/3 player.

The dude averaged like 16/7/2 this year playing like only 32 minutes a game and not being featured at all.

I don't even think Bosh is that good...and that opinion of mine started way back and has been backed up since the whole Heat thing, but he's not some complete scrub.

Acting like he couldn't do something around 22/9/3 on his own team is absurd. Now, doing that and actually winning games and all that other stuff...that is the issue. But Bosh could do 22/9/3 in his ****ing sleep playing 36 minutes a game as the best player on a team.

[TMT]

I am saying that most of the players LeBron played with in Cleveland were veterans. Who were either past their prime or were simply 3 pt. specialists. In other words, LIMITED players.

Bosh has essentially turned into a player that you have just described. Think by any chance this could be an effect of playing next to Lebron? :confusedshrug:

Like I said before, Lebron has made guys stationary sit and wait players throughout his career and Bosh is just falling into that category. Like someone posted earlier, Mo Williams and Wade are probably the only two who didn't get cast under this spell. Coincidence? Doubtful, seems to me it has become more of a trend caused by Lebron's style of play.

[Legends66NBA7]

Do people believe Bosh is an elite scorer or defender ? If so, what reasons ?

[#number6ix#]

Bosh obviously has talent to be a 20 point scorer but he lacks the motor and off ball movement to be an effective rebounder... Just look at birdman he comes of f the bench and can grab10 boards off hustle alone and he can score 10-14 points off.of running hard and cuts to the basket but some how it's LeBron fault Bosh isn't more productive

[DMAVS41]

Bosh has essentially turned into a player that you have just described. Think by any chance this could be an effect of playing next to Lebron? :confusedshrug:

Like I said before, Lebron has made guys stationary sit and wait players throughout his career and Bosh is just falling into that category. Like someone posted earlier, Mo Williams and Wade are probably the only two who didn't get cast under this spell. Coincidence? Doubtful, seems to me it has become more of a trend caused by Lebron's style of play.

lebron's style certainly does this, but the problem is that those Cavs teams did not have individually good players either.

They didn't even have people producing like Bosh really offensively either.

I'm not saying you are doing it, but I'm getting sick of hearing on here how it's either the worst thing ever or the best. It's either Mark Cuban is a bad team builder or a brilliant one.

There are varying degrees of shit.

Those Cavs teams were not the worst supporting casts ever, but they were fundamentally flawed and winning tough series in the playoffs with them was going to be damn near impossible for Lebron.

Bosh isn't a scrub, he's very good, he just isn't some beat of a player. He was never a "superstar" that some people (most Lebron haters) called him.

Still good...just not great.

[PJR]

Sure, he can put up 22/9 on a bad team.

But who cares? Alot of guys can do numbers on a bad team.

Journeyman point guard Mike James went to Toronto, got a high usage, and dropped 20/6 on 56 TS%.

The Raptors went to the playoffs twice in 7 seasons with Bosh as the featured player. In the Eastern Conference.

Bosh is a very good player. An all star. But this notion that he's being underutilized in Miami is rubbish. He's casted in the EXACT role that he's should be casted in(if the goal is to win titles). And that's being a third option/complimentary player to two all time great wing players.

[#number6ix#]

LeBron drives birdman cuts hard on the baseline for a easy layup
LeBron drives Bosh steps back for a 17 foot jumper

[navy]

lebron's style certainly does this, but the problem is that those Cavs teams did not have individually good players either.


I dont know what Heat you guys are watching, but anyone who watches each and everyone one of their games knows that Bosh as no business not doing anything but catching and shooting. He's too tall to dribble outside of an isolation move or two and he turnovers the ball repeatedly in the post. S

Show me a toronto game where Bosh's game was different from what he does on the Heat. He plays the same exact way. Just less shot attempts.

Which quality players has Lebron limited to jumpshooters that were better off attempting to create for themselves?

[DMAVS41]

I dont know what Heat you guys are watching, but anyone who watches each and everyone of their games knows that Bosh as no business not doing anything but catching and shooting. He's too tall to dribble outside of an isolation move or two and he turnovers the ball repeatedly in the post.

Which quality players has Lebron limited to jumpshooters that were better off attempting to create for themselves?

God...shut up.

Lebron's style absolutely turns his teammates more into shooters. It's not even a criticism...they should be...that is how they play their best. Lebron is an amazing passer and a great finisher. So he's going to score if you don't shift the defense...and if you do...he's going to find the right player for an open shot at an impressive rate.

I'm not going to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Bosh does not suck. He is not some scrub. He could easily...and I mean easily...get you 20/9/3 playing 36 plus minutes a game on a team with him as the man.

And I don't even like bosh...LOL

[navy]

God...shut up.

Lebron's style absolutely turns his teammates more into shooters. It's not even a criticism...they should be...that is how they play their best. Lebron is an amazing passer and a great finisher. So he's going to score if you don't shift the defense...and if you do...he's going to find the right player for an open shot at an impressive rate.

I'm not going to argue just for the sake of arguing.

Bosh does not suck. He is not some scrub. He could easily...and I mean easily...get you 20/9/3 playing 36 plus minutes a game on a team with him as the man.

And I don't even like bosh...LOL
Dont change the subject. I never claimed Bosh was a scrub.

Lebon's style doesnt turn Wade into a jumpshooter. Lebron pretty much plays point guard and his job is to get the offense the best shots, if the people around him are best at shooting that's what they will do. Wade has the ball less so he slashes more on offense, he doesnt turn into a jumpshooter. Chris Anderson cant shoot, so he rolls to the rim.

What does this have to with Lebron's style? Which players game on the Heat would change if Lebron was gone? No ones except Wade who would have the ball more for the high pick and roll. Which is not really his thing anymore as he isnt as fast.

Nobody ever said Bosh was a scrub. He is a star player who gets less shots because he is clearly the third best player on the team. Sometimes he struggles with his shot like anyone else and his rebounding is terrible.

He is a great non isolation defender as well. He is who he is.

On a different team he could average 25/7 as a first option.

[DMAVS41]

Lebon's style doesnt turn Wade into a jumpshooter. Lebron pretty much plays point guard and his job is to get the offense the best shots, if the people around him are best at shooting that's what they will do. Wade has the ball less so the slashes more on offense, he doesnt turn into a jumpshooter. Chris Anderson cant shoot, so he rolls to the rim.

What does this have to with Lebron's style? Which players game on the Heat would change if Lebron was gone? No ones except Wade who would have the ball more.

Nobody ever said Bosh was a scrub. He is a star player who gets less shots because he is clearly the third best player on the team. Sometimes he struggles with his shot like anyone else and his rebounding is terrible.

He is a great non isolation defender as well.

I never claimed Bosh was a scrub.

What people mean when they say that is that Lebron needs space to do that stuff.

And that means surrounding him with as much shooting as possible.

They don't mean he "actually turns a guy that can't shoot into just a shooter"

It's about the spacing. You aren't going to play Lebron off the ball that much. It's just who he is as a player. And again, there is nothing wrong with that...he's amazing.

They've made it work with Wade, but it's hardly ideal. Prime Wade is way better than Ray Allen ever was, but offensively speaking...Ray Allen fits way better around lebron at sg than Wade does. Bosh's skill set fits, like you said, to begin with.

Although I really think Bosh would have the ball way more in his hands playing on different teams. That seems to be all we disagree on.

[Trollsmasher]

LeBron drives birdman cuts hard on the baseline for a easy layup
LeBron drives Bosh steps back for a 17 foot jumper
Unlike Birdman, Bosh can't finish in traffic

too soft

The notion about LeBron needing some ridiculous floorspreading and him turning players into jumpshooter is just a pure lie. The Heat are better offensively with Birdman in Bosh's place and the guy has hit 10 jumpshots in his career.

As somebody said earlier, Bosh at this point of his career is not capable of anything else than shooting. Whenever he tries to drive by someone or goes into the post against a solid defender, it ends up in an embarassment for him.

[navy]

What people mean when they say that is that Lebron needs space to do that stuff.

And that means surrounding him with as much shooting as possible.

They don't mean he "actually turns a guy that can't shoot into just a shooter"

It's about the spacing.

They've made it work with Wade, but it's hardly ideal. Prime Wade is way better than Ray Allen ever was, but offensively speaking...Ray Allen fits way better around lebron at sg than Wade does. Bosh's skill set fits, like you said, to begin with.

Although I really think Bosh would have the ball way more in his hands playing on different teams. That seems to be all we disagree on.

Every team works best by having spacing. Just watch the Grizzles vs Spurs last year. Post players and perimeter players need space to operate because players are now allowed to set up their players in any spot they want outside of the 3 in the paint. Can you imagine if teams were not allowed to help on Lebron like back in the 80s and 90s?

Wade and Lebron were destroying the playoffs when we've seen both at the top of their game. 2011, before the finals and flashes in 2012 even without Bosh. Those were the best Heat teams, it didnt matter who the other scrubs on the court were nor what play style the team tried to run.

No, I agree Bosh's numbers would go up, but it would only be because he got more shots. However his looks would be very similar to they are now.

[Kingwillball]

Bosh is at Best a 17 and 9 guy..

[DMAVS41]

Unlike Birdman, Bosh can't finish in traffic

too soft

The notion about LeBron needing some ridiculous floorspreading and him turning players into jumpshooter is just a pure lie. The Heat are better offensively with Birdman in Bosh's place and the guy has hit 10 jumpshots in his career.

As somebody said earlier, Bosh at this point of his career is not capable of anything else than shooting. Whenever he tries to drive by someone or goes into the post against a solid defender, it ends up in an embarassment for him.

Some of this is true, but it's going way too far.

Didn't bosh go nuts at Portland this year when Lebron sat out the game?

Offense is very rhythm based for a scorer like Bosh...and seeing the ball less means less of that.

What Lebron does to an offense is a great thing, but as a result of a guy like Lebron...you are going to see less than optimal play out of scores like Wade and Bosh. Better for the team overall, but it's not optimal.

And you really sell Bosh short...and again..I don't even like Bosh. I've been called a Bosh hater here for years. But he is a capable offensive player in his own right.

[DMAVS41]

Every team works best by having spacing. Just watch the Grizzles vs Spurs last year. Post players and perimeter players need space to operate because players are now allowed to set up their players in any spot they want outside of the 3 in the paint. Can you imagine if teams were not allowed to help on Lebron like back in the 80s and 90s?

Wade and Lebron were destroying the playoffs when we've seen both at the top of their game. 2011, before the finals and flashes in 2012 even without Bosh. Those were the best Heat teams, it didnt matter who the other scrubs on the court were nor what play style the team tried to run.

No, I agree Bosh's numbers would go up, but it would only be because he got more shots. However his looks would be very similar to they are now.

You do realize we agree on 99% of this.

Our differences is that I think Bosh is a slightly better offensive player in his own right and would do better getting into a better rhythm with the ball in his hands more often and being featured in an offense more often.

The rest I completely agree on....especially the parts about 11 and 12 (when healthy) clearly being better than the 13 and current Heat.

[Ronaldinho]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZhm0wcwn0c

When your star player is a regular season stat padder, you do have an excuse.

I imagine LeBron sat Bosh down before the 2011 season and told him, "Those rebounds. They're going to me."
Great vid :applause:

[navy]

You do realize we agree on 99% of this.

Our differences is that I think Bosh is a slightly better offensive player in his own right and would do better getting into a better rhythm with the ball in his hands more often and being featured in an offense more often.

The rest I completely agree on....especially the parts about 11 and 12 (when healthy) clearly being better than the 13 and current Heat.

Better volume. His efficiency is through the roof...well it was until his recently bad play. Seems like a fair trade off. :confusedshrug:

[Kingwillball]

How many games did Wade miss this year and how many times did Bosh come up up small. The answer a lot. As the #2 option he still had plenty of 10-15 point games that the Heat lost when they need 20-25 out of Bosh. If Bosh averaged 20,10 while Wade was out I would buy the argument He could be a 20,10 guy on his own team.

[navy]

How many games did Wade miss this year and how many times did Bosh come up up small. The answer a lot. As the #2 option he still had plenty of 10-15 point games that the Heat lost when they need 20-25 out of Bosh. If Bosh averaged 20,10 while Wade was out I would buy the argument He could be a 20,10 guy on his own team.
He isnt a ten rebound guy anymore. 20 points is easy for a first option star.

[Fudge]

Bosh is a 20/10 player on his own team.

[Kingwillball]

He isnt a ten rebound guy anymore. 20 points is easy for a first option star.


He just isn't a first option star though. He is a solid #2 option at best IMO in the right situation. Look at all the Playoff teams not many of them he would be the #1 guy MAYBE the bulls.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Bosh on his own team won 3 playoff games in 7 seasons.

but pau gasol on his own team record of zero games won is not his fault right? :applause: :applause:

[DMAVS41]

Better volume. His efficiency is through the roof...well it was until his recently bad play. Seems like a fair trade off. :confusedshrug:

Of course it is.

You seem to be arguing with someone else.

[Trollsmasher]

Some of this is true, but it's going way too far.

Didn't bosh go nuts at Portland this year when Lebron sat out the game?

Offense is very rhythm based for a scorer like Bosh...and seeing the ball less means less of that.

What Lebron does to an offense is a great thing, but as a result of a guy like Lebron...you are going to see less than optimal play out of scores like Wade and Bosh. Better for the team overall, but it's not optimal.

And you really sell Bosh short...and again..I don't even like Bosh. I've been called a Bosh hater here for years. But he is a capable offensive player in his own right.
Yes, Bosh is a very rhythm based guy. We always say that you can tell what kind of game he is going to have by looking at his 1st 3 shots. But when his rhythm seems to fall apart for the playoffs again, you really have to start questioning his toughness.

I am a "Bosh hater" from a perspective of him being a 20 million guy, that, for his salary, could provide things the Heat don't need from him and, on the contrary, can't provide things that the Heat are actually in a need of. The things that could be provided by a 10 mil, real center instead and the rest of Bosh's salary could be used on other glaring weaknesses, especially after this season with Miami being over the cap with just Big 3 + Haslem and Cole signed for the next season.

Nothing more, nothing less. I like Bosh, he is a great and hilarious person. I don't even think it's his fault most of the time, because the Heat can't really do anything else with this personnel (I tend to question the longterm outlook of the whole organization in this before the Big 3 assembled), but if he once again has 12/6 playoffs on 52% TS, he will be receiving a well deserved criticism.

[DMAVS41]

Yes, Bosh is a very rhythm based guy. We always say that you can tell what kind of game he is going to have by looking at his 1st 3 shots. But when his rhythm seems to fall apart for the playoffs again, you really have to start questioning his toughness.

I am a "Bosh hater" from a perspective of him being a 20 million guy, that, for his salary, could provide things the Heat don't need from him and, on the contrary, can't provide things that the Heat are actually in a need of. The things that could be provided by a 10 mil, real center instead and the rest of Bosh's salary could be used on other glaring weaknesses, especially after this season with Miami being over the cap with just Big 3 + Haslem and Cole signed for the next season.

Nothing more, nothing less. I like Bosh, he is a great and hilarious person. I don't even think it's his fault most of the time, because the Heat can't really do anything else with this personnel (I tend to question the longterm outlook of the whole organization in this before the Big 3 assembled), but if he once again has 12/6 playoffs on 52% TS, he will be receiving a well deserved criticism.

Yes. I've been saying this for years.

He was never a "superstar" and he isn't close to worth the max.

The problem is, a guy like Chandler makes 15 million per year....so his value is hard to actually gauge monetarily.

What we all know, of course, is that the 20 million spent on Bosh...for this Heat team...would be much better suited in other areas.

[Sarcastic]

Yes. I've been saying this for years.

He was never a "superstar" and he isn't close to worth the max.

The problem is, a guy like Chandler makes 15 million per year....so his value is hard to actually gauge monetarily.

What we all know, of course, is that the 20 million spent on Bosh...for this Heat team...would be much better suited in other areas.

It's a salary cap league. It's impossible to properly gauge a player's value with that kind of distortion of the market. Some guys get ridiculously overpaid, and some get ridiculously underpaid.

The Heat overpay Bosh, but they underpay LeBron and Wade.

[DMAVS41]

It's a salary cap league. It's impossible to properly gauge a player's value with that kind of distortion of the market. Some guys get ridiculously overpaid, and some get ridiculously underpaid.

The Heat overpay Bosh, but they underpay LeBron and Wade.

Of course.

That is why I said that for the Heat...I think it's obvious they would be better spreading Bosh's salary to address the needs of the team than having Bosh.

[r0drig0lac]

If you center an offense around him like they did in Toronto, he's a 20ppg player at least. But he isn't put in the same situations as he was in Toronto and has resorted to becoming mostly Lebron's jumpshooting puppet. There's no explanation for the rebounding though.
everything had to be said

[97 bulls]

Most of the reasoning in this forum is warped. Just about any player in the NBA could avg 20 ppg if they were on a team that featured him. Would that team win? Thats a different argument.

On the flip side, and I can't stress this enough, NO PLAYER WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS ON THEIR OWN. Give Chris Bosh two more players on his level and they probably win a championship. Penalizing Bosh for not winning in Toronto is utterly rediculous.

[B4llin]

He isnt a ten rebound guy anymore. 20 points is easy for a first option star.

Nobody is a 10 rebound guy playing with Lebron. People need to understand that a team can only have so many rebounds and so many assists. Playing with Lebron your job is to box out so your king can get the rebound. Playing with Lebron your job is to give him the ball and take the shots when he passes to you.

Every system Lebron has ever played in has been built to give him stats. It was a losing formula and thats why he needed to team up with 2 other superstars who can still strive in that kind of system.

[SilkkTheShocker]

These Spurs fans on here are getting bitter and bitter :oldlol:

[Rocketswin2013]

:cheers:
Obviously it isn't a successful formula. But the dude can get his when he's not just sitting on the perimeter waiting to catch and shoot. Lebron has had a habit of changing his teammates into "wait, watch and shoot if he passes to me" kind of players throughout his career and that's no different with Bosh. Wade has probably been the only guy who this hasn't happened to. :lol

[AintNoSunshine]

He could come close to 20ppg on meh%, but let's not kidd ourselves with that 10rpg:facepalm