Harden without 10+ fts a night is just another guy

[konex]

He is getting exposed

[The_Yearning]

Harden for 40 next game.

[imdaman99]

konex curse is in :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Angel Face]

Harden without his fts is a glorified scrub.

[konex]

bump

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

fringe top5 SG
top25-30 player

[Smook A.]

He was just off tonight. Both Klay and Harden had off nights.

[Real Men Wear Green]

He's a product of the league. He saw a way to score and takes advantage of it. Scorers have always abused the FT rules, he's just taking it to a higher level.

[Im Still Ballin]

Let Harden have his season numbers. We all saw what happened come playoffs.

[dontgetchoked]

He was just off tonight. Both Klay and Harden had off nights.
not hating, but.. he's been shooting under 40% for most of his games this season, just missed his 3s and didnt get to the line. if he would have had 15 freethrows, would that have made it a good night? thats the problem with harden, i need to see him convert his fg attempts at a higher rate. that being said, i think he is a better overall player than klay, better ball handler, passer and rebounder. klay cant run the pick and roll nearly as well as harden, but his shot is so lethal just being on the court makes the defense work.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Let Harden have his season numbers. We all saw what happened come playoffs.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[jrong]

not hating, but.. he's been shooting under 40% for most of his games this season, just missed his 3s and didnt get to the line. if he would have had 15 freethrows, would that have made it a good night? thats the problem with harden, i need to see him convert his fg attempts at a higher rate. that being said, i think he is a better overall player than klay, better ball handler, passer and rebounder. klay cant run the pick and roll nearly as well as harden, but his shot is so lethal just being on the court makes the defense work.

Exactly. Harden is just another high volume, low efficiency chucker. Can you imagine how good a team with Dwight Howard would be if he was paired with a high-efficiency superstar? They'd never lose.

[ralph_i_el]

:facepalm if they werent fouling him to send him to the line he'd be finishing way more layups. He'd have a higher FG% and you morons would keep your mouths shut.

They may be "free" throws up you still have to earn them.

[el_locoteee]

Exactly. Harden is just another high volume, low efficiency chucker.

Wrong thread. We are talking about Harden not Kobe.

[Milbuck]

:facepalm if they werent fouling him to send him to the line he'd be finishing way more layups. He'd have a higher FG% and you morons would keep your mouths shut.

They may be "free" throws up you still have to earn them.
Except that he doesn't entirely. He does have the ability to initiate and finish through contact...but that's only a part of it. A huge chunk of his free throws are a combination of his bullshit exploitation of the rules and the pussified era of basketball that's upon us. Harden would be a CJ McCollum level player in the 90s.

I would kill to see him play a 7 game series against the 90s Knicks at their best with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, etc. Or against the Bad Boys. Dude would get DESTROYED. The defensive schemes may have been less complex but the physicality would've made him want to quit playing basketball. He thinks it's hard to shoot 40% in the playoffs now? :roll:

[Dubs510]

Wrong thread. We are talking about Harden not Kobe.

have to bring up kobe to feel better bout themselves :(

[NuggetsFan]

Exactly. Harden is just another high volume, low efficiency chucker. Can you imagine how good a team with Dwight Howard would be if he was paired with a high-efficiency superstar? They'd never lose.

Harden is pretty efficient because the FT's and the 3 ball. Makes him inconsistent at times but for the entire season he's an efficient scorer. Up until tonight he wasn't even averaging 16 shots to get 26 points. Almost 12 FT's a game and shooting 91%. Making 2+ 3's a game. He's been over 60% TS the past 3 seasons.

The fact that he's relies so heavily on something like FT's needs to be took into account, especially in the playoffs. All tho he does seem to still get to the line there, just one of many players who performs worse due to the defense.

[NuggetsFan]

Except that he doesn't entirely. He does have the ability to initiate and finish through contact...but that's only a part of it. A huge chunk of his free throws are a combination of his bullshit exploitation of the rules and the pussified era of basketball that's upon us. Harden would be a CJ McCollum level player in the 90s.

I would kill to see him play a 7 game series against the 90s Knicks at their best with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, etc. Or against the Bad Boys. Dude would get DESTROYED. The defensive schemes may have been less complex but the physicality would've made him want to quit playing basketball. He thinks it's hard to shoot 40% in the playoffs now? :roll:

It's everybody. Durant/Westbrook are brutal for that. Durant exploited the rip move to the point where the NBA stepped in. Westbrook will drive into players looking for nothing more than 2 shots at the line. Harden is just as brutal.

It's just using smart tactics and being efficient. Physical play has been removed on guards/swingmen. You don't think coaches are in these guys ears to make them yell something out or exaggerate contact? Lawson/Gallo do it. Faried does it. So even players are aren't superstars try to pull that off.

Every NBA superstar would have to adjust his game to play those teams. I mean today's NBA is annoying but why would a player not use every advantage? Sucks watching guys flop but it is what it is.

[dontgetchoked]

:facepalm if they werent fouling him to send him to the line he'd be finishing way more layups. He'd have a higher FG% and you morons would keep your mouths shut.

They may be "free" throws up you still have to earn them.
Uh you do realize that when you get fouled it doesn't count as a field goal attempt? So wouldn't that increase his fg%? I'm not a hating on harden he's good at what he does, But his biggest offensive weapons are getting to the line and step back jumpers and that won't cut it in the playoffs. Or the end of games when the refs swallow their whistles.

[ralph_i_el]

Uh you do realize that when you get fouled it doesn't count as a field goal attempt? So wouldn't that increase his fg%? I'm not a hating on harden he's good at what he does, But his biggest offensive weapons are getting to the line and step back jumpers and that won't cut it in the playoffs. Or the end of games when the refs swallow their whistles.


Most fouls happen around the rim yes? Stands to reason that if he was taking less fouls at the rim, he would instead be finishing those plays with layups at a 50-60% clip?

[jrong]

Harden is pretty efficient because the FT's and the 3 ball. Makes him inconsistent at times but for the entire season he's an efficient scorer. Up until tonight he wasn't even averaging 16 shots to get 26 points. Almost 12 FT's a game and shooting 91%. Making 2+ 3's a game. He's been over 60% TS the past 3 seasons.

The fact that he's relies so heavily on something like FT's needs to be took into account, especially in the playoffs. All tho he does seem to still get to the line there, just one of many players who performs worse due to the defense.

I think linking FTs and FGAs presents an incomplete picture of efficiency. You always hear people talk about a player scored X total points on Y total shots. What that ignores is that FTs may not count as FGAs but going to the line still uses the same amount of possessions as a taking a shot.

TS type stats measure efficiency in the sense of pure conversion rate, but good old fashioned FG% tells me a lot more, like BB IQ, willingness to pass, etc. (obviously we're talking about comparing players of the same position type and role).

And wings, for instance, with 50+% shooting are generally more capable of dominating because they build those percentages on the backs of 60+% games. They're also a lot less likely to shoot you out of games because they know when it's not their night. They'll go 4/13 instead of 8/26 and find other ways to contribute (which goes back to BB IQ).

[tpols]

Except that he doesn't entirely. He does have the ability to initiate and finish through contact...but that's only a part of it. A huge chunk of his free throws are a combination of his bullshit exploitation of the rules and the pussified era of basketball that's upon us. Harden would be a CJ McCollum level player in the 90s.

I would kill to see him play a 7 game series against the 90s Knicks at their best with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, etc. Or against the Bad Boys. Dude would get DESTROYED. The defensive schemes may have been less complex but the physicality would've made him want to quit playing basketball. He thinks it's hard to shoot 40% in the playoffs now? :roll:

"The Harden Rules"

http://www.toledoblade.com/image/2011/04/02/800x_b1_cCM_z_cT/36b2c97c-a263-4401-ac24-4c9de5f730d2.jpg

[kenny817]

Exactly. Harden is just another high volume, low efficiency chucker. Can you imagine how good a team with Dwight Howard would be if he was paired with a high-efficiency superstar? They'd never lose.

*cough cough* Dirk Nowitzki

[Phenith]

It's everybody. Durant/Westbrook are brutal for that. Durant exploited the rip move to the point where the NBA stepped in. Westbrook will drive into players looking for nothing more than 2 shots at the line. Harden is just as brutal.

It's just using smart tactics and being efficient. Physical play has been removed on guards/swingmen. You don't think coaches are in these guys ears to make them yell something out or exaggerate contact? Lawson/Gallo do it. Faried does it. So even players are aren't superstars try to pull that off.

Every NBA superstar would have to adjust his game to play those teams. I mean today's NBA is annoying but why would a player not use every advantage? Sucks watching guys flop but it is what it is.

Very true, it's not the 90s, it's 2014 and the players have their games adjusted to the current rules, not the old rules.
Part of what makes Harden quite possibly the best SG in the game is his ability to get to the line in today's rules.
BS calls are ridiculous argument as it happens league wide, not for just 1 player, it happens for every player that put himself in a position to get those calls, which in itself is a skill that almost all star players have and use to their advantage.

[j3lademaster]

Harden without his free throws is just what we see in the playoffs already. He's still a 20 ppg guy and a decent creator. But you have to play to his strengths and not force him into something he's not. Houston wants him to be that 26 ppg superstar and the sole playmaker/scorer in the clutch and that's too much to ask of him and if nothing changes Houston will continue to struggle in the playoffs because of this.

[1manfastbreak]

He was just off tonight. Both Klay and Harden had off nights.

Crazy, Klay hit one 3-pointer last season in 3 games against houston.

[Mr Exlax]

Sooooooo is there anybody saying that he isn't getting fouled though? The best way to stop him from shooting free throws is to stop fukcing fouling him. Then you same hoes wanna say it's ok to do the Hack-A-Howard smh. Just shut that agenda driven shit up already.

[UK2K]

not hating, but.. he's been shooting under 40% for most of his games this season, just missed his 3s and didnt get to the line. if he would have had 15 freethrows, would that have made it a good night? thats the problem with harden, i need to see him convert his fg attempts at a higher rate. that being said, i think he is a better overall player than klay, better ball handler, passer and rebounder. klay cant run the pick and roll nearly as well as harden, but his shot is so lethal just being on the court makes the defense work.

Last season, he shot 46% and 37% from deep. This season he's shooting 40% and 32% from deep.

If he was shooting at last years percentages, he'd be averaging well over 30-7-7 per game.

That's MVP numbers.

[Dro]

I don't understand why teams play him so close honestly......I would let him chuck 3 pointers and long step back jumpers all day and just challenge the shot.......Don't let him drive by you and he doesn't have a chance to exaggerate contact......Then lets see how many free throws he gets and how high his shooting % is....

Having said that, I dont think he's as good as he averages but I do like watching him play...I think he has nice form on his shot, he has good handles, and his eurostep is nasty...

[UK2K]

I don't understand why teams play him so close honestly......I would let him chuck 3 pointers and long step back jumpers all day and just challenge the shot.......Don't let him drive by you and he doesn't have a chance to exaggerate contact......Then lets see how many free throws he gets and how high his shooting % is....

Having said that, I dont think he's as good as he averages but I do like watching him play...I think he has nice form on his shot, he has good handles, and his eurostep is nasty...

And last year Harden shot 46% from 10-16 feet and 41% from 16 feet out to the three point line, a better percentage than LaMarcus Aldridge from the same long jumpshot range, and shot 37% from the three point line. Sounds like your plan is flawed.

Granted this year hes cold, but I think last year's season averages are more indicative of his game then 7 games this season.

[Dro]

And last year Harden shot 46% from 10-16 feet and 41% from 16 feet out to the three point line, a better percentage than LaMarcus Aldridge from the same long jumpshot range, and shot 37% from the three point line. Sounds like your plan is flawed.

Granted this year hes cold, but I think last year's season averages are more indicative of his game then 7 games this season.
Oh, I'm with you....I didn't mean to imply that would not be able to shoot a good % doing that, as you just pointed out, he did it last year...

I would just make him do it again.....But its really no different than any other player......You try to stop him from going to his strengths and make him beat you in other ways.....

Like take MJ for example..teams tried to stop him from driving....so he learned to shoot midrange and fadeaways....Then whey tried to stop him from shooting fadeaways by either double teaming him for putting a taller defender on him, he learned to fake it and then go baseline or go around them....And then after they tried to adjust to that, he developed outstanding footwork and learned to do 2-3 fakes in one sequence so eventually had no clue whether he try a fadeaway, baseline spin, jab step and then jumpshot, or a jab step, pump fake, then drive.......etc, etc.....He had to keep improving his offensive game BECAUSE of the era that he played in, they really played defense and took away your strengths........One could actually argue that MJ may have never become the GOAT if he weren't forced to continue to improve because the defenses that he faced...

The way the rules are Harden's ability to take advantage of them and rely so heavily upon is kind've doing a disservice to himself because its preventing from the needing to continue to improve his offensive game...Instead, he's allowed to rely on the same style of play when he could actually become even better(and he's already very good) to the point of becoming one the best SG's the game as ever seen....He has all around ability it seems and even has the ability to be a good defender......

I guess its not really anything thats his fault, its just a sign of the times and the way the game is played today...As pointed out, Durant plays a similar way........

I would make Harden prove he can beat me in other ways consistently instead of allowing him to use his strengths......

I don't see him developing a fadeaway or anything like that but should be able to have a great mid-range game with step backs from midrange(not long range), floaters, tear-drops, especially him being a lefty...

[Vragrant]

I would kill to see him play a 7 game series against the 90s Knicks at their best with Ewing, Oakley, Mason, etc. Or against the Bad Boys. Dude would get DESTROYED. The defensive schemes may have been less complex but the physicality would've made him want to quit playing basketball. He thinks it's hard to shoot 40% in the playoffs now? :roll:

You don't need so see that, because you already saw him get embarrassed in the playoffs against a neophyte Blazer team last year. If he played the 90's Knicks he'd retire from basketball before the end of the series.

[konex]

Like clockwork in the playoffs

[Jameerthefear]

Now that the curse has been lifted Konex is Nostadamus

[SpecialQue]

He is getting exposed

No shit.

[KG215]

Now that he's actually playing against a team that defends and doesn't have all kinds of cancerous shit going on in the locker room, it'll be interesting to see if game one is the norm, or if he bounces back and looks like the MVP runner-up.

[Batz]

Like clockwork in the playoffs
blow it up.

[Cold soul]

No shit.

Yup this is another Harden playoff type performance. He is such a fraud exposed once again.

[konex]

*bump*

[konex]

Garbage

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Garbage
He has 10+ FTs doe

[TheBigVeto]

Harden is like the second coming of DWhistle - without the refs he's not good.

[konex]

bump