is Shaq even close to Kobe all time?

[NauruDude]

are we gonna act like all of shaqs real success as a leader came with an all nba 1st-2nd team legendary top 5-6 player all time KOBE BEAN BRYANT


what kobe did without shaq is 100 times better than what shaq did without kobe

this should tell you who the better player is all time

shaq without kobe in 11 years has
0 titles as lead dog,
0 mvps,
0 finals wins as lead dog,
2 all nba 1st teams
0 all defensive teams period



kobe since 2005 has

2 titles as lead dog
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
7 first team all NBA's
6 first team all defenses
1 second team all defense




shaq had 1992-93, 1993-94, 1994-95, 1995-96, 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11

and if you throw in kobes first 2 years on the bench ( since nobody would count kobe if shaq won then )

thats 1996-97, 1997-98 as part of the years shaq failed with eddie jones/van exel as his running mates


thats 13 years!

and please dont say shaq didnt peak until kobe was great

1993 = 23/14 on 56%
1994 = 29/13 on 60%
1995 = 29/11 on 58%
1996 = 26/11 on 56%
1997 = 26/12 on 57%
1998 = 28/11 on 58%
2005 = 23/10 on 60% ( top player on miami )
2009 = 18/8 on 59% ( top player on phoenix )


he had great numbers.. but never got the job done

he had 8 legit years out of those 13 as lead dog of his team and never got it done

compare those 7 years to kobes since leaving shaq

[VengefulAngel]

Why are there so many insecure Kobe stans, Give it up.

[deja vu]

shut up Theoo :facepalm

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Not really. Shaq's a bit higher.

[Mr. Jabbar]

kobe haters avoiding real arguments like the plague :roll:

[deja vu]

kobe haters avoiding real arguments like the plague :roll:
How is it even an argument.

Shaq carried Kobe to 3 titles.

Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

[Mr. Jabbar]

How is it even an argument.

Shaq carried Kobe to 3 titles.

Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

shaq has a better case of winning only with elite sg's than kobe with elite centers, as proved by gasols not so good looking 16-playoff games played, 16 playoff games lost kobe-less record

[Ball So Harden]

Nope. There is a large gap for Kobe to need to close to be near Shaq's level.

[iamgine]

Kobe = better career

Shaq = better player

That's all there is to it.

[Real14]

http://media.giphy.com/media/vLdryXPiZuewE/giphy.gif

[Ball So Harden]

Kobe = better career

Shaq = better player

That's all there is to it.

Agreed.

[pauk]

Well Shaq is about two steps above... so yea.... they are kindof close... :confusedshrug:

[Real14]

Well Shaq is about two steps above... so yea.... they are kindof close... :confusedshrug:
yea right:lol

[ImKobe]

Also forgot to mention that in those years Shaq played without Kobe, he had prime Penny, Prime Grant, prime Wade, prime Lebron, still a great Nash, he even went to the Celtics one year.

Kobe had Pau, Odom and out of prime Ron Artest, Bynum was an all-star one year, but Pau played like crap & we had lost Odom. 2013 obviously doesn't count because Kobe led a team to the Playoffs and suffered a severe injury. Shaq got swept in the 1st round with HCA while being the defending champions.

Shaq had so many opportunities to win more rings, but he couldn't succeed anywhere as well as he succeeded with Kobe.

[VIntageNOvel]

theoo :applause:

[Cold soul]

Kobe = better career

Shaq = better player

That's all there is to it.

I agree. Shaq just had the greater peak.

[ArbitraryWater]

So Pippen > Jordan, right?

Pippen without Jordan:

Led Team to 55 Wins to only be screwed in the ECSF (Otherwise Title)
ECF with Blazers
Playoff Appearances every Year


Jordan without Pippen:
5 Years - 5 loosing Records. 3 1st Round Exits, 2 times not making Playoffs.



Doesn't work that way, homie.

[Calabis]

Also forgot to mention that in those years Shaq played without Kobe, he had prime Penny, Prime Grant, prime Wade, prime Lebron, still a great Nash, he even went to the Celtics one year.

Kobe had Pau, Odom and out of prime Ron Artest, Bynum was an all-star one year, but Pau played like crap & we had lost Odom. 2013 obviously doesn't count because Kobe led a team to the Playoffs and suffered a severe injury. Shaq got swept in the 1st round with HCA while being the defending champions.

Shaq had so many opportunities to win more rings, but he couldn't succeed anywhere as well as he succeeded with Kobe.

:facepalm

He went to the finals with a young Magic team and lost to Rockets who were back to back champs. Then Jordan came back with a dynasty team and that was that.

Are we going to act like Kobe didn't have the best front court in the league when he won? Highest payroll as well? We going to act like Kobe didnt lose in playoffs or get swept after Shaq? Are we going to act like Shaq final performances and playoff runs dont just shit all over Kobe's? Post their finals performances please

[AirFederer]

Shaq is at least to tiers above so not close, sorry :rockon:

[ImKobe]

:facepalm

He went to the finals with a young Magic team and lost to Rockets who were back to back champs. Then Jordan came back with a dynasty team and that was that.

Are we going to act like Kobe didn't have the best front court in the league when he won? Highest payroll as well? We going to act like Kobe didnt lose in playoffs or get swept after Shaq? Are we going to act like Shaq final performances and playoff runs dont just shit all over Kobe's? Post their finals performances please

Kobe didn't get swept in the 1st round, especially not with HCA. 2011 sweep was due to Kobe not being healthy and Pau playing like crap & Phil having cancer, not to mention the fatigue from 3 straight Finals runs and running into a red hot Mavs team, who just killed us from 3 with Dirk making every jumper.

Shaq Finals performances shit on Kobe's? Name me some iconic Shaq moments that were so big from the 3-peat era, he put up some godly stats, but Kobe was the man that closed the games and had the ball in his hands in the 4th. How many Finals games did Shaq close? Where was Shaq's godly stats in Game 7 of the 2000 WCF, when the Lakers were down 13 points in the 4th quarter? Why was Kobe the one that outperformed Shaq against the toughest opponents?

Are we gonna act like Kobe wasn't the best player in every series in the 2001 Western Conference Playoffs?

Kobe: 5

Shaq: 4

Kobe: 1x MVP, 2x NBA Champ, 2x Finals MVP without Shaq
Shaq: 0x MVP, 1x NBA Champ, 0x Finals MVP without Kobe

[dubeta]

OP is right Shaq isnt close to kobe because he is so far ahead its not even funny :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

Shaq is consensus TOP 6 , while kobe is anywhere from 10-15

And the argument that Shaq didnt do much without kobe doesnt hold much water since kobe used up all the peak years of Shaq, while kobe peaked after Shaq left

Shaq was a 38/17 per game in finals while kobe is a 6-24

Shaqs prime = 3 peat

Kobe's prime = lottery
/thread

[T_L_P]

Kobe may have done more without Shaq than Shaq did without Kobe, but I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned '04.

If Kobe doesn't throw that series, Shaq sits on four Finals MVPs and this thread doesn't even happen.

Also, how many times will Kobe stans bring up injuries? '03 Kobe tore his shoulder, otherwise they beat the Spurs. '04 he injured something else and had that rape thing, '05 he was injured, '09 and '10 were deceivingly great because the warrior played through a number of ailments, a hobbled Kobe couldn't keep up with the Mavs in '11. Get a ****ing grip.

[navy]

Kobe = better career

Shaq = better player

That's all there is to it.
/thread

[kennethgriffin]

are we gonna act like all of shaqs real success as a leader came with an all nba 1st-2nd team legendary top 5-6 player all time KOBE BEAN BRYANT


what kobe did without shaq is 100 times better than what shaq did without kobe

this should tell you who the better player is all time

shaq without kobe in 11 years has
0 titles as lead dog,
0 mvps,
0 finals wins as lead dog,
2 all nba 1st teams
0 all defensive teams period



kobe since 2005 has

2 titles as lead dog
1 mvp
2 finals mvps
7 first team all NBA's
6 first team all defenses
1 second team all defense




shaq had 1992-93, 1993-94, 1994-95, 1995-96, 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11

and if you throw in kobes first 2 years on the bench ( since nobody would count kobe if shaq won then )

thats 1996-97, 1997-98 as part of the years shaq failed with eddie jones/van exel as his running mates


thats 13 years!

and please dont say shaq didnt peak until kobe was great

1993 = 23/14 on 56%
1994 = 29/13 on 60%
1995 = 29/11 on 58%
1996 = 26/11 on 56%
1997 = 26/12 on 57%
1998 = 28/11 on 58%
2005 = 23/10 on 60% ( top player on miami )
2009 = 18/8 on 59% ( top player on phoenix )


he had great numbers.. but never got the job done

he had 8 legit years out of those 13 as lead dog of his team and never got it done

compare those 7 years to kobes since leaving shaq


dude i swear this is one of my posts and you copy and pasted it lol

[kennethgriffin]

/thread



bird = better career

tmac = better player


? seriously who cares if for 1 or 2 years a guy is better than another guy was for any 1 or 2 years.


so the top 5 players all time now are

#1 wilt
#2 oscar
#3 baylor
#4 shaq
#5 hakeem
?


jordan wouldnt be close to #1 all time if it werent for careers over peaks

people just cherry pick criteria to battle kobe fans lol

[LAZERUSS]

The bigger the stage...the more he puked...


99-00
Regular season 22.5 ppg .468 FG%
Finals 15.6 ppg .367 FG%
Last Game of Series .296 FG%

00-01
Regular season 28.5 ppg .464 FG%
Finals 24.6 ppg .415 FG%
Last Game of Series .389 FG%

01-02
Regular season 25.2 ppg .469
Finals 26.8 ppg .514 FG%
Last Game of Series .438 FG%

03-04
Regular season 24.0 ppg .438 FG%
Finals 22.6 ppg .381 FG%
Last Game of Series .333 FG%

07-08
Regular season 28.3 ppg .459 FG%
Finals 25.7 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .318 FG%

08-09
Regular season 26.8 ppg .467 FG%
Finals 32.4 ppg .430 FG%
Last Game of Series .435 FG%

09-10
Regular season 27.0 ppg .456 FG%
Finals 28.6 ppg .405 FG%
Last Game of Series .250 FG%


Other noteables:


97-98
Swept by Utah 4-0.
Kobe averages 10.0 ppg on a .367 FG%

98-99
Swept by San Antonio 4-0
Last game of the series : Kobe 16 points on a .438 FG%

02-03
Lose to Spurs in WCF's, 4-2.
Last game loss by a score of 110-82 (Kobe with 20 points in a season in which he averaged 30 ppg)

03-04 Finals
Heavily favored Lakers lose to Pistons, 4-1.
In the clinching game five loss Kobe shoots .333 in a 100-87 loss (and LA was down 23 going into 4th quarter)

04-05
Team goes 34-48 and misses playoffs

05-06
Regular season 35.4 ppg .450
Playoffs 27.9 ppg .497
Last game (7) 24 points in a 121-90 loss (after blowing a 3-1 series lead)

06-07
Team goes 42-40
Loses in first round to Suns, 4-1.
Last game of that series, Kobe shoots .394 from the floor

07-08
Lakers are blown out by Celts in Finals.
In game four the Lakers blow a 23 point lead, and lose, in a game in which Kobe shot .316 from the field.
In the clinching game six loss, the Lakers lose by a Finals record margin of 131-92. Kobe shoots .318 from the floor.

10-11
Lakers with HCA are swept by the Mavs, 4-0.
In the clinching game four loss, LA loses 122-86. Kobe shoots .389 from the field.

[SpecialQue]

Kobe had a better career and is a better player than Shaq ever was. Sorry, but Kobe winning with Gasol is more impressive than Shaq "winning" with Wade.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Are you that stupid? Its the opposite. Kobe is not close to Shaq.
:facepalm

[Lebronxrings]

kobe stans are the worst. Kobe wouldn't have had a great career without shaq and the stacked lakers.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

stfu Nauruprude

[fpliii]

:cry:

[ArbitraryWater]

dude i swear this is one of my posts and you copy and pasted it lol

lmfaoo this is exactly what i thought... LOOKED ALOT like your writing haha

[inclinerator]

bird = better career

tmac = better player


? seriously who cares if for 1 or 2 years a guy is better than another guy was for any 1 or 2 years.


so the top 5 players all time now are

#1 wilt
#2 oscar
#3 baylor
#4 shaq
#5 hakeem
?


jordan wouldnt be close to #1 all time if it werent for careers over peaks

people just cherry pick criteria to battle kobe fans lol
bird was twice the player mcgrady is

[Dresta]

Might have something to do with Shaq being a whole 6 years older than Kobe. Tell us plz, what exactly did Kobe accomplish in his first 4 seasons other than being dragged to a single title by prime Shaq? And how many titles is Kobe gonna win in his last 4-5 seasons? 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 - nada.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe had a better career and is a better player than Shaq ever was. Sorry, but Kobe winning with Gasol is more impressive than Shaq "winning" with Wade.

You don't really think that, do you? :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

You know whats funny, Kenneth?

You talk about how it doesnt matter if one is better for a few years, CAREER matters.

The first year Kobe was better than Shaq, was 2005/2006, Kobe's 11th Year in the League... and this is an undisputable fact.

[HOoopCityJones]

Career wise, yeah , I approve.

But people have to realize the career wise means Shaq needed Kobe more than Kobe needed Shaq.

[Dresta]

Career wise, yeah , I approve.

But people have to realize the career wise means Shaq needed Kobe more than Kobe needed Shaq.
Shaq would've won 2-3 titles in LA with Aaron Afflalo in Kobes place.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Shaq would've won 2-3 titles in LA with Aaron Afflalo in Kobes place.

Must be why Shaq lost with 1st team all nba Penny Hardaway

Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel..were all all stars the same year, they all played with Shaq that year, they still lost

1999 Lakers get swepted by Duncan/Spurs.. Shaq produces his regular numbers in that series..

2000 Duncan is hurt LA wins.. Shaq produces his regular numbers in that series...

2001 Duncan is healthy, LA sweeps.. Shaq produces his regular numbers numbers in that series.. Kobe puts up 33/7/7/2/1

hmm what was the difference? Shaq would not have gotten past a healthy Spurs team w/o peak/prime (w/e you wanna call it) Kobe..

[DonDadda59]

:kobe:

Are we going to make pretend that the '5 rangz' argument you clowns love so much isn't due in large part to the Diesel playing some of the most dominant ball ever while carrying Bean's James Harden lite looking ass to 3 rangz?

[canary]

Prime Shaq was a pleasure to watch :bowdown: