Ginobili is carrying the Spurs

[robert_shaww]

"Old ass 37 years Ginobili" with 20pts 50% FG 4,0 Reb 4,3 Ast 1,5 Stl in 28min

Parker dissappeared this series, Danny Green 2.8 Pts/game, Marco Belinelli with 3,5 Pt/Game, Patty Mills with 5 points per game, And kawhi Leonard with just 9,5 per game.....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Still, they are 2-2 playing the worst basketball in Popovich era. And they also have Scrubs like Bonner and Splitter in the team. Duncan looks old and tired, last night with just 14 points in 38 minutes (Leonard 7 points in also 38 minutes!!!)

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: is going ON ???


Pd: Manu is a great player, but he is 37!!! Mavs should win this....

[SCdac]

Seems like all the Spurs have made key plays though, Parker, Manu, Duncan, Diaw, etc. Kawhi was superb in Game 3 but they couldn't pull out the win. Duncan's defense and shot blocking doesn't really make for ESPN top-10 highlights but it's necessary for SA. They really play as a team more than anything. Manu has definitely been sick though, much props.

[D-FENS]

"Old ass 37 years Ginobili" with 20pts 50% FG 4,0 Reb 4,3 Ast 1,5 Stl in 28min

Parker dissappeared this series, Danny Green 2.8 Pts/game, Marco Belinelli with 3,5 Pt/Game, Patty Mills with 5 points per game, And kawhi Leonard with just 9,5 per game.....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Still, they are 2-2 playing the worst basketball in Popovich era. And they also have Scrubs like Bonner and Splitter in the team. Duncan looks old and tired, last night with just 14 points in 38 minutes (Leonard 7 points in also 38 minutes!!!)

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: is going ON ???


Pd: Manu is a great player, but he is 37!!! Mavs should win this....

Manu per 36:
25 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg, 24.6 PER

Great numbers at his advantaged age. Does anyone ever wonder what Manu's numbers would like like if he was given his own team and 36-38 mpg?

[robert_shaww]

Seems like all the Spurs have made key plays though, Parker, Manu, Duncan, Diaw, etc. Kawhi was superb in Game 3 but they couldn't pull out the win. Duncan's defense and shot blocking doesn't really make for ESPN top-10 highlights but it's necessary for SA. They really play as a team more than anything. Manu has definitely been sick though, much props.

They are NOT playing as a team in this series at all...just depending on Manu

[DMAVS41]

Scrub Splitter?

His defense is winning the Spurs this series. He's holding Dirk down below his averages and the Spurs defense overall is considerably better when he's on the court.

The Spurs have a 96.7 drtg when he's on the court...and a 125.5 drtg when he goes to the bench.

LOL...he's been the Spurs 2nd best player in this series.

Duncan has also played well, despite what everyone is saying.

[SCdac]

Manu per 36:
25 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg, 2 spg, 24.6 PER

Great numbers at his advantaged age. Does anyone ever wonder what Manu's numbers would like like if he was given his own team and 36-38 mpg?

Without guessing exact numbers, he probably puts up production in the range of Michael Redd, James Harden, Joe Johnson, Cuttino Mobley, Ben Gordon, etc. Somewhere in between them. In other words, good numbers, probably lead a playoff team (8th seed, 7th seed, etc.) but likely not a championship team. Would have been awesome, though I like his career in SA because he's been integral to a ton of wins. Better numbers but less success on his own team probably.

[D-FENS]

Without guessing exact numbers, he probably puts up production in the range of Michael Redd, James Harden, Joe Johnson, Cuttino Mobley, Ben Gordon, etc. Somewhere in between them. In other words, good numbers, probably lead a playoff team (8th seed, 7th seed, etc.) but likely not a championship team. Would have been awesome, though I like his career in SA because he's been integral to a ton of wins. Better numbers but less success on his own team probably.

I could really see him maxing out as a 28-29 ppg guy in his prime. He's certainly an elite shooting guard in history, just a touch below a guy like Drexler.

Tier 1:
Jordan

Tier 2:
Bryant
West
Robertson

Tier 3:
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Gervin

Tier 4:
Ginobili
Carter
McGrady
Jones

Tier 5:
Allen
Miller

[Frozen1]

Splitter is not a scrub. His role is rebound and play defense, and he is doing it. Maybe if they went to him more in the offense he would average more points. He is the 7th option in the offense.

[robert_shaww]

I could really see him maxing out as a 28-29 ppg guy in his prime. He's certainly an elite shooting guard in history, just a touch below a guy like Drexler.

Tier 1:
Jordan

Tier 2:
Bryant
West
Robertson

Tier 3:
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Gervin

Tier 4:
Ginobili
Carter
McGrady
Jones

Tier 5:
Allen
Miller

Prime Manu is Tier 3.

[robert_shaww]

Scrub Splitter?

His defense is winning the Spurs this series. He's holding Dirk down below his averages and the Spurs defense overall is considerably better when he's on the court.

The Spurs have a 96.7 drtg when he's on the court...and a 125.5 drtg when he goes to the bench.

LOL...he's been the Spurs 2nd best player in this series.

Duncan has also played well, despite what everyone is saying.

did you see Splitter Hook Shot?

[Milbuck]

I could really see him maxing out as a 28-29 ppg guy in his prime. He's certainly an elite shooting guard in history, just a touch below a guy like Drexler.

Tier 1:
Jordan

Tier 2:
Bryant
West
Robertson

Tier 3:
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Gervin

Tier 4:
Ginobili
Carter
McGrady
Jones

Tier 5:
Allen
Miller
May I ask why exactly Wade is an entire TIER below West and Oscar?

[tragicbronson]

I've been saying that playoff is a place where rotations are shortened and now you can see what is a difference between regular season and playoffs. Players like Belinelli Mills and maybe Diaw(great three though) who had looked great are now nothing more than players who fill in rotation. It's all been on their oldest and most experienced players + Leonard and they are just too old to carry team on their backs. Ginobili is as you said, playing the best among them but Duncan is still very valuable. It makes me angry to see these players who were producing and playing big minutes in regular season playing really scared and poor now. I hope Pop comes up with something to fix it.

[kennethgriffin]

I could really see him maxing out as a 28-29 ppg guy in his prime. He's certainly an elite shooting guard in history, just a touch below a guy like Drexler.

Tier 1:
Jordan

Tier 2:
Bryant
West
Robertson

Tier 3:
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Gervin

Tier 4:
Ginobili
Carter
McGrady
Jones

Tier 5:
Allen
Miller


kobe is closer to jordan all time than west is to kobe


6 to 5 .................to 1

#1-#2 all time ...to #5-6 all time........to #13-14 all time



common

either put jordan and kobe in tier 1 or put kobe alone in tier 2




and btw ginobili is a really good player but yall overrating him the f*ck out.. hes on the level of reggie miller maybe at best. and thats if you dont look at his stats too closely

[DMAVS41]

I've been saying that playoff is a place where rotations are shortened and now you can see what is a difference between regular season and playoffs. Players like Belinelli Mills and maybe Diaw(great three though) who had looked great are now nothing more than players who fill in rotation. It's all been on their oldest and most experienced players + Leonard and they are just too old to carry team on their backs. Ginobili is as you said, playing the best among them but Duncan is still very valuable. It makes me angry to see these players who were producing and playing big minutes in regular season playing really scared and poor now. I hope Pop comes up with something to fix it.

Depth has been and always will be the most over-rated thing in the playoffs.

You win off stars and a solid rotation of 7 guys.

Going 9 or 10 deep really just doesn't matter...and honestly it can hurt you at times.

[robert_shaww]

Depth has been and always will be the most over-rated thing in the playoffs.

You win off stars and a solid rotation of 7 guys.

Going 9 or 10 deep really just doesn't matter...and honestly it can hurt you at times.

So TRUE. Thats spurs problem for ever. Pop is overrated, and im serious.

[SCdac]

I could really see him maxing out as a 28-29 ppg guy in his prime. He's certainly an elite shooting guard in history, just a touch below a guy like Drexler.

Tier 1:
Jordan

Tier 2:
Bryant
West
Robertson

Tier 3:
Wade
Drexler
Iverson
Gervin

Tier 4:
Ginobili
Carter
McGrady
Jones

Tier 5:
Allen
Miller

As far as Manu, seems about right.

I think he's a top 20 shooting guard of all time definitely.

So much of rankings is subjective and always will be. The more multiple eras are combined the more murky it gets IMO, but having said that Manu has certainly proven himself in his era .

Not a stretch to say he'd lead a team to 40-50 wins while putting up 20+, especially in the Eastern Conference. He lead the Spurs in PPG a handful of seasons back and that's 'competing' with Duncan and Parker for shots.

[SCdac]

As far as depth, yeah it can be overrated (see the LA Clippers), but it's absolutely necessary for a team with no super stars. If anything, the Spurs bench is slowly coming to life. And SA is lucky to have a player like Manu willing to come off the bench. Some of it is not necessarily that "depth is overrated" but rather player like Patty and Marco are not rich in playoff experience (ie. playoff jitters), let alone for a tough coach like Pop.

[robert_shaww]

As far as Manu, seems about right.

I think he's a top 20 shooting guard of all time definitely.

So much of rankings is subjective and always will be. The more multiple eras are combined the more murky it gets IMO, but having said that Manu has certainly proven himself in his era .

Not a stretch to say he'd lead a team to 40-50 wins while putting up 20+, especially in the Eastern Conference. He lead the Spurs in PPG a handful of seasons back and that's 'competing' with Duncan and Parker for shots.

I believe Duncan is overrated, Parker was the best player in 07 and Manu in 05 (not only in the finals, also conference finals, semis and 1st round).

Manu saved duncan in the clutch in MULTIPLE playoffs games in the past...and still playing better than him in 2014 (27min vs 38min)

Duncan is a legend, of course, but he is not top 10, probably top 20.

(im not talking about ray allen shot saving lebron, paxton saving jordan, horry saving shaq/kobe etc..., im talking about carrying his team...not 1 shot)

[thefatmiral]

splitter has been great and essential. duncan and gino got us our first win. i doubted splitter before this. kawhi belli and diaw are missing. parker is attacking and making his jumpers, good enough.

[tragicbronson]

Depth has been and always will be the most over-rated thing in the playoffs.

You win off stars and a solid rotation of 7 guys.

Going 9 or 10 deep really just doesn't matter...and honestly it can hurt you at times.

Nuggets come first to my mind, i mean the nuggets from last year, actually a 12 player rotation that couldn't go past the first round. Depth can be a key in the regular season but it's not nearly that effective in the playoffs where you need your best players to perform.

[SCdac]

I believe Duncan is overrated, Parker was the best player in 07 and Manu in 05 (not only in the finals, also conference finals, semis and 1st round).

Manu saved duncan in the clutch in MULTIPLE playoffs games in the past...and still playing better than him in 2014 (27min vs 38min)

Duncan is a legend, of course, but he is not top 10, probably top 20.

(im not talking about ray allen shot saving lebron, paxton saving jordan, horry saving shaq/kobe etc..., im talking about carrying his team...not 1 shot)

Top 20 what? most entertaining players ever? ... might agree with that, might ...

But if you're talking about player rankings I disagree. No doubt he's one of the best players to ever play in the NBA (top-10). Groundhog Day, the Big Fundamental... whatever you want to call him, he's a legend... One of the only players to lead a team in taking down Shaq's Lakers at the height of their success.

I don't think Duncan is overrated at all... If anything I think he's going to become underrated to the newer generations of fans who didn't watch him in his prime (he was an elite and dominant scorer when need be).

[robert_shaww]

Top 20 what? most entertaining players ever? ... might agree with that, might ...

But if you're talking about player rankings I disagree. No doubt he's one of the best players to ever play in the NBA (top-10). Groundhog Day, the Big Fundamental... whatever you want to call him, he's a legend... One of the only players to lead a team in taking down Shaq's Lakers at the height of their success.

I don't think Duncan is overrated at all... If anything I think he's going to become underrated to the newer generations of fans who didn't watch him in his prime (he was an elite and dominant scorer when need be).


I love Duncan, dont get me wrong, im a spurs fan, but i cant understand why Gino with 37 years old has to still carry this team...its too much, he is not Jordan. Still, Manu is playing great, but Ducan and Parker must step up. If Duncan is top 5 ever, then Manu is top 50, dont forget the 2005 playoffs, please.

[oarabbus]

So TRUE. Thats spurs problem for ever. Pop is overrated, and im serious.

:biggums:

You don't know basketball

[SCdac]

I love Duncan, dont get me wrong, im a spurs fan, but i cant understand why Gino with 37 years old has to still carry this team...its too much, he is not Jordan. Still, Manu is playing great, but Ducan and Parker must step up. If Duncan is top 5 ever, then Manu is top 50, dont forget the 2005 playoffs, please.

Oh, I haven't forgotten. Ginobili is my favorite player all time.

But he's not on Duncan's tier of amazingness (and that's not an insult, 99% of players aren't on Duncan's level).

Duncan has alot of mileage, keep in mind (roughly 3 seasons worth of playoff games played). He was winning his first ring when alot of people on this board were in elementary school.

You should understand that every great player receives/received help. It's not a knock on Tim or any of those players.

[DMAVS41]

As far as depth, yeah it can be overrated (see the LA Clippers), but it's absolutely necessary for a team with no super stars. If anything, the Spurs bench is slowly coming to life. And SA is lucky to have a player like Manu willing to come off the bench. Some of it is not necessarily that "depth is overrated" but rather player like Patty and Marco are not rich in playoff experience (ie. playoff jitters), let alone for a tough coach like Pop.

Oh of course...but this is why teams with no superstars hardly ever win.

But yes, of course, a team with no super stars better be deep or they just have no chance.

[T_L_P]

I believe Duncan is overrated, Parker was the best player in 07 and Manu in 05 (not only in the finals, also conference finals, semis and 1st round).

Manu saved duncan in the clutch in MULTIPLE playoffs games in the past...and still playing better than him in 2014 (27min vs 38min)

Duncan is a legend, of course, but he is not top 10, probably top 20.

(im not talking about ray allen shot saving lebron, paxton saving jordan, horry saving shaq/kobe etc..., im talking about carrying his team...not 1 shot)

Please, make your case for Manu and Parker being better than Duncan in '05 and '07.

[robert_shaww]

Please, make your case for Manu and Parker being better than Duncan in '05 and '07.

Manu per 36 in 2005 playoffs:

52% FG
7,1 Reb
6,2 Ast
23,1 Pts


Duncan per 36 in 2005 Playoffs:

47% FG
11.8 Reb
2.9 Ast
21.9 Pts


Manu killed Denver on the road in the 1st round (George karl mas mad as hell) destroyed seattle in the semis, also scoring 39 pts in pivotal game 5 with the series 2-2, and played a terific series vs the 1st seed Suns (same series duncan was demolished by Amare)
In the Finals, well, he won the series, and was the best player in the court in games 1, 2 6 and 7 at home. (Ben Wallace was the MVP killing Duncan in the paint).

[T_L_P]

Manu per 36 in 2005 playoffs:

52% FG
7,1 Reb
6,2 Ast
23,1 Pts


Duncan per 36 in 2005 Playoffs:

47% FG
11.8 Reb
2.9 Ast
21.9 Pts


Manu killed Denver on the road in the 1st round (George karl mas mad as hell) destroyed seattle in the semis, also scoring 39 pts in pivotal game 5 with the series 2-2, and played a terific series vs the 1st seed Suns (same series duncan was demolished by Amare)
In the Finals, well, he won the series, and was the best player in the court in games 1, 2 6 and 7 at home. (Ben Wallace was the MVP killing Duncan in the paint).

How did I know it would come down to something as stupid as Per 36 numbers.

If Manu was the clear MVP of the Spurs, why wasn't he playing more minutes? Maybe because he couldn't, as he's never been a big minute guy for the Spurs (for whatever reason).

Duncan was the main focus of the opponents defense. He was still commanding doubles and anchoring one of the best defenses in the league. Larry Brown and Gregg Popovich both said Duncan is what got them to the promised land.

Also, what about 2007? Did you look up the Per 36 number and realise Parker actually played more minutes than Duncan in the Playoffs, and his production was still not close to Tim's?

You're a joke. You also said he wasn't the best player on that '06 team, when he had a case for the best player in the post-season. :roll:

[robert_shaww]

How did I know it would come down to something as stupid as Per 36 numbers.

If Manu was the clear MVP of the Spurs, why wasn't he playing more minutes? Maybe because he couldn't, as he's never been a big minute guy for the Spurs (for whatever reason).

Duncan was the main focus of the opponents defense. He was still commanding doubles and anchoring one of the best defenses in the league. Larry Brown and Gregg Popovich both said Duncan is what got them to the promised land.

Also, what about 2007? Did you look up the Per 36 number and realise Parker actually played more minutes than Duncan in the Playoffs, and his production was still not close to Tim's?

You're a joke. You also said he wasn't the best player on that '06 team, when he had a case for the best player in the post-season. :roll:

Per 36 is a perfect objetive stat. you just say: "duncan was the best...we got to promise land with him..." fine...

if you want we can talk about any playoffs series. 08 vs hornets...11 vs memphis...12 vs OKC....05 vs suns....

[robert_shaww]

You're a joke. You also said he wasn't the best player on that '06 team, when he had a case for the best player in the post-season.


copy paste that please.

[T_L_P]

You're a joke. You also said he wasn't the best player on that '06 team, when he had a case for the best player in the post-season.


copy paste that please.

"he wasnt the best player in the spurs from 2005 to 2014."

That's every year in between, surely? So, 2006, who was the best player. 2007, who was the best player?

[TMT]

Of course this would turn into a Duncan vs. Ginobili debate. :oldlol:

Guy has been our only consistent play maker in this series. It seems like Spurs have always relied on Manu in times of desperation the last 5 years or so, but all those times we've been underwhelming in the playoffs. For whatever reason Belli and Green have been completely ineffective. Diaw had a big confidence building game though, and Patty (in his first true postseason run) started to see his shot fall last night.

Manu might as well be subbing in for Tony at PG in the rotation though because TP is a complete waste of a body whenever he's off the ball. The rotation might need some minor tweaks.

[T_L_P]

Of course this would turn into a Duncan vs. Ginobili debate. :oldlol:

Guy has been our only consistent play maker in this series. It seems like Spurs have always relied on Manu in times of desperation the last 5 years or so, but all those times we've been underwhelming in the playoffs. For whatever reason Belli and Green have been completely ineffective. Diaw had a big confidence building game though, and Patty (in his first true postseason run) started to see his shot fall last night.

Manu might as well be subbing in for Tony at PG in the rotation though because TP is a complete waste of a body whenever he's off the ball. The rotation might need some minor tweaks.

The overreactions on this board get a little frustrating.

Of course Manu has been the best Spur in this series. He's playing incredible for a guy his age. But it seems more and more like people have never watched a Spurs game, aside from the ones this postseason, and they make their minds up about these players from there.

[TMT]

The overreactions on this board get a little frustrating.

Of course Manu has been the best Spur in this series. He's playing incredible for a guy his age. But it seems more and more like people have never watched a Spurs game, aside from the ones this postseason, and they make their minds up about these players from there.

Typical ISH. Everything gets blown out of proportion here. People are acting like Donald Sterling pulled a George Zimmerman or something. :lol

[robert_shaww]

"he wasnt the best player in the spurs from 2005 to 2014."

That's every year in between, surely? So, 2006, who was the best player. 2007, who was the best player?

Duncan was only the absolutely best Spurs player from 1999 to 2003. IMO. In 2004 its close, from 2005 to 2008 Manu.

From 2008 to 2014 its a tie between Duncan/manu and Parker during the regular season, and a tie between Duncan/Manu in the playoffs.

[T_L_P]

Duncan was only the absolutely best Spurs player from 1999 to 2003. IMO. In 2004 its close, from 2005 to 2008 Manu.

From 2008 to 2014 its a tie between Duncan/manu and Parker during the regular season, and a tie between Duncan/Manu in the playoffs.

You're obvious trolling now. Like I said, nobody came close to Duncan in 2006. Parker was better than Manu in the regular season, but Duncan was better than both, and he was way better than either of them in the Playoffs. The same applies for 2007.

In the 2006 Playoffs Duncan put up 26/11/3/1/2 on .573 shooting. What did Manu do to beat that? :oldlol:

Duncan was the best Spur from 1997 to 2007, then again at certain other points (2013, for example). He's been the second option on offense since about '08, but he's always been the defensive anchor, which is a pretty huge thing, you know?

Are you really a Spurs fan though? You seriously think the greatest Spur of all-time, by far, was the best player on his team for just 4 years? :facepalm

[robert_shaww]

You're obvious trolling now. Like I said, nobody came close to Duncan in 2006. Parker was better than Manu in the regular season, but Duncan was better than both, and he was way better than either of them in the Playoffs. The same applies for 2007.

In the 2006 Playoffs Duncan put up 26/11/3/1/2 on .573 shooting. What did Manu do to beat that? :oldlol:

Duncan was the best Spur from 1997 to 2007, then again at certain other points (2013, for example). He's been the second option on offense since about '08, but he's always been the defensive anchor, which is a pretty huge thing, you know?

Are you really a Spurs fan though? You seriously think the greatest Spur of all-time, by far, was the best player on his team for just 4 years? :facepalm

he was THE best player for 4 years, but tied at first with 2 teammates for lots of years. At the end of the day, of course he is the best spur ever. But i remember every damm series from the last 10 years. all of them, and many times, lots of times, Manu saved him/us.

[T_L_P]

he was THE best player for 4 years, but tied at first with 2 teammates for lots of years. At the end of the day, of course he is the best spur ever. But i remember every damm series from the last 10 years. all of them, and many times, lots of times, Manu saved him/us.

People seriously overrate clutch play. If it weren't for Duncan's all-time great defense and consistency Manu wouldn't have even been in a position to "carry us".

You know how hard it is to anchor a top 3 defense year-in, year-out whilst still putting up good scoring numbers? Was Kobe better than Shaq throughout the three-peat, because he was their clutch player?

[robert_shaww]

[QUOTE=T_L_P].

In the 2006 Playoffs Duncan put up 26/11/3/1/2 on .573 shooting. What did Manu do to beat that? :oldlol:
/QUOTE]


Ginobili 2006 Playoffs per 36:

21.3 pts
5,2 reb
4,0 ast

Duncan 2006 Playoffs per 36

23,9 pts
9,9 reb
2,9 ast


:applause:

[robert_shaww]

People seriously overrate clutch play. If it weren't for Duncan's all-time great defense and consistency Manu wouldn't have even been in a position to "carry us".

You know how hard it is to anchor a top 3 defense year-in, year-out whilst still putting up good scoring numbers? Was Kobe better than Shaq throughout the three-peat, because he was their clutch player?

So clutch is underrated for you...i remember many series we won because of Manu, and tim wasnt playing good at all. Give Ginobili any average PF (lets say Rasheed Wallace) from 2004 to 2008 and he is winning same rings.

[Just2McFly]

in what world is manu a tier above ray allen? :wtf:

[robert_shaww]

in what world is manu a tier above ray allen? :wtf:

Planet Earth. (go watch 2005 WCSF both in their prime).

[T_L_P]

[QUOTE=T_L_P].

In the 2006 Playoffs Duncan put up 26/11/3/1/2 on .573 shooting. What did Manu do to beat that? :oldlol:
/QUOTE]


Ginobili 2006 Playoffs per 36:

21.3 pts
5,2 reb
4,0 ast

Duncan 2006 Playoffs per 36

23,9 pts
9,9 reb
2,9 ast


:applause:

Stop with this Per 36 bullshit. If Manu could play more he would have. He's not the most durable of stars.

And either way, Duncan's Per 36 numbers are still far superior, and Duncan did it with better shooter percentages, better defense, and more focus from the opposing defense.

Good job, idiot!

[T_L_P]

So clutch is underrated for you...i remember many series we won because of Manu, and tim wasnt playing good at all. Give Ginobili any average PF (lets say Rasheed Wallace) from 2004 to 2008 and he is winning same rings.

:facepalm

[robert_shaww]

[QUOTE=robert_shaww]

Stop with this Per 36 bullshit. If Manu could play more he would have. He's not the most durable of stars.

And either way, Duncan's Per 36 numbers are still far superior, and Duncan did it with better shooter percentages, better defense, and more focus from the opposing defense.

Good job, idiot!

Im just debating about the sport i love, and by the way, i love both, manu and tim. Dont get mad, and edit the "idiot".

[DMAVS41]

The ignorance here is just astounding...

I can't believe die hard fans that post on message boards are so stupid.

LOL at Manu and Rasheed Wallace winning two titles together as the two best players on the team.

Duncan was clearly the best and most valuable player on the Spurs from 98 thrugh 2010. And then he was clearly the best in 13 as well.

[T_L_P]

[QUOTE=T_L_P]

Im just debating about the sport i love, and by the way, i love both, manu and tim. Dont get mad, and edit the "idiot".

So let me get this straight: Manu, who's been the best overall Spur from 2004-2014, was only getting 30-33 MPG in his prime, yet you want to use Per 36 numbers to prove why he was so great?

Tell me: if he really was the best Spur, why didn't his minutes increase? Maybe it was because he couldn't play big minutes (a trait of a superstar), or was it because Pop didn't like something about his play?

A 37-year-old Duncan got about as many Playoff minutes last year as Manu did in his prime. :oldlol: And this is a Duncan who played twice as many minutes as Manu throughout his career.

[robert_shaww]

The ignorance here is just astounding...

I can't believe die hard fans that post on message boards are so stupid.

LOL at Manu and Rasheed Wallace winning two titles together as the two best players on the team.

Duncan was clearly the best and most valuable player on the Spurs from 98 thrugh 2010. And then he was clearly the best in 13 as well.

So 2005 Spurs without Duncan (lets say he is injured) and with Rasheed Wallace (great pistons player at the moment and NBA defending champ) dont wing the title in 05 or 06 or 07 ???

[robert_shaww]

[QUOTE=robert_shaww]


Tell me: if he really was the best Spur, why didn't his minutes increase? Maybe it was because he couldn't play big minutes (a trait of a superstar), or was it because Pop didn't like something about his play?

.

Manu is a little fragile, Pop was always afraid of injuries (he knew that without Manu there is no playoff run for the spurs, as in 2009) so he limited his minutes, thats it.

[DMAVS41]

So 2005 Spurs without Duncan (lets say he is injured) and with Rasheed Wallace (great pistons player at the moment and NBA defending champ) dont wing the title in 05 or 06 or 07 ???

LOL...hell no.

They have no chance to win in 05 or 06...it's not even debatable.

You could maybe...maybe argue 07, but it's still doubtful...

[robert_shaww]

[QUOTE=robert_shaww]

So let me get this straight: Manu, who's been the best overall Spur from 2004-2014, was only getting 30-33 MPG in his prime, yet you want to use Per 36 numbers to prove why he was so great?

Tell me: if he really was the best Spur, why didn't his minutes increase? Maybe it was because he couldn't play big minutes (a trait of a superstar), or was it because Pop didn't like something about his play?

A 37-year-old Duncan got about as many Playoff minutes last year as Manu did in his prime. :oldlol: And this is a Duncan who played twice as many minutes as Manu throughout his career.

tell me what you remember about the 2009 playoffs. No short answer please...

[robert_shaww]

LOL...hell no.

They have no chance to win in 05 or 06...it's not even debatable.

You could maybe...maybe argue 07, but it's still doubtful...

who is winning in 2005? the suns? :roll:

[DMAVS41]

who is winning in 2005? the suns? :roll:

Uhhh...why not?

I'd say the Pistons though...

[robert_shaww]

Uhhh...why not?

I'd say the Pistons though...

Pistons without Wallace?

[DMAVS41]

Pistons without Wallace?

Why would they be without Wallace? You can't remove a player from a team in the league to make this comparison.

Do you not get that?

You can't talk about Manu not needing Duncan and then remove a key player from the competition.

ROFL...you are a clown.

[robert_shaww]

Why would they be without Wallace? You can't remove a player from a team in the league to make this comparison.

Do you not get that?

You can't talk about Manu not needing Duncan and then remove a key player from the competition.

ROFL...you are a clown.

ok.

ben wallace
rasheed wallace
prince
hamilton
billups

vs

horry
rasheed wallace
bowen
ginobili
parker


Spurs in 6 or 7

[DMAVS41]

ok.

ben wallace
rasheed wallace
prince
hamilton
billups

vs

horry
rasheed wallace
bowen
ginobili
parker


Spurs in 6 or 7

It took the Spurs 7 in 05 with Duncan...now they are better with Wallace over Duncan????????

What????????

[robert_shaww]

It took the Spurs 7 in 05 with Duncan...now they are better with Wallace over Duncan????????

What????????

Not better, pretty much same result.

DONT YOU REMEMBER THAT SERIES??

MANU BEST PLAYER GAMES 1 AND 2
HORRY BEST PLAYER GAME 5
MANU BEST PLAYER GAMES 6 AND 7.

SPURS WON GAMES 1, 2, 5 AND 7.

THREAD/

[DMAVS41]

Not better, pretty much same result.

DONT YOU REMEMBER THAT SERIES??

MANU BEST PLAYER GAMES 1 AND 2
HORRY BEST PLAYER GAME 5
MANU BEST PLAYER GAMES 6 AND 7.

SPURS WON GAMES 1, 2, 5 AND 7.

THREAD/

First of all...they'd have to get to the Finals. And I don't think they would have to begin with, but just no...just no.

You have no clue how good Duncan was back then...this is sick. Just sick.

LOL @ end thread....:facepalm

[T_L_P]

First of all...they'd have to get to the Finals. And I don't think they would have to begin with, but just no...just no.

You have no clue how good Duncan was back then...this is sick. Just sick.

LOL @ end thread....:facepalm

Popovich and Brown both said game 7 was won because of Duncan, because of his ability to find the open man. How many big men in 2005 would have received as much attention as Duncan did? Lol at Sheed and Manu ever winning a ring together. The Spurs have four rings in their entire history, and they were all won with Duncan being the best player on the court. Now this guy thinks taking him away would lead to almost equal success?

And this guy calls himself a Spurs fan. :oldlol:

[Anaximandro1]

OP, you need to step up your trolling.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WY4D7-H6dIo/U2Bbop-uHYI/AAAAAAAACxU/E2cR9bIcKzk/s1600/14.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xzWYa-9QmcQ/U2BboicslxI/AAAAAAAACxQ/m7Loub0VOSg/s1600/15.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mnHABVN7iFs/U2BboZaYYvI/AAAAAAAACxY/BGaQNuqbSR8/s1600/13.jpg

[davehos]

"Old ass 37 years Ginobili" with 20pts 50% FG 4,0 Reb 4,3 Ast 1,5 Stl in 28min

Parker dissappeared this series, Danny Green 2.8 Pts/game, Marco Belinelli with 3,5 Pt/Game, Patty Mills with 5 points per game, And kawhi Leonard with just 9,5 per game.....:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Still, they are 2-2 playing the worst basketball in Popovich era. And they also have Scrubs like Bonner and Splitter in the team. Duncan looks old and tired, last night with just 14 points in 38 minutes (Leonard 7 points in also 38 minutes!!!)

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf: is going ON ???


Pd: Manu is a great player, but he is 37!!! Mavs should win this....

...... Splitter protects the rim and his inside threat frees up Duncan do to pick and roll at the top of the key to open up the shooters.

It's about stepping up and so far the Spurs have had people make big shots: Manu, Diaw, etc.

If not for some crazy 3 at the end of game 2 the Spurs would be up 3-1.

Dallas isn't a bunch of scrubs. They're a 50 win team ... they'd be the 3rd seed in the East. The west is stacked and it's wide open.

[robert_shaww]

OP, you need to step up your trolling.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WY4D7-H6dIo/U2Bbop-uHYI/AAAAAAAACxU/E2cR9bIcKzk/s1600/14.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xzWYa-9QmcQ/U2BboicslxI/AAAAAAAACxQ/m7Loub0VOSg/s1600/15.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mnHABVN7iFs/U2BboZaYYvI/AAAAAAAACxY/BGaQNuqbSR8/s1600/13.jpg

thats not per 36, cant debate in that terms.

[T_L_P]

OP, you need to step up your trolling.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WY4D7-H6dIo/U2Bbop-uHYI/AAAAAAAACxU/E2cR9bIcKzk/s1600/14.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xzWYa-9QmcQ/U2BboicslxI/AAAAAAAACxQ/m7Loub0VOSg/s1600/15.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mnHABVN7iFs/U2BboZaYYvI/AAAAAAAACxY/BGaQNuqbSR8/s1600/13.jpg

Anaximandro1 cleaning up the mess of this thread. :applause:

[robert_shaww]

Popovich and Brown both said game 7 was won because of Duncan, because of his ability to find the open man. How many big men in 2005 would have received as much attention as Duncan did? Lol at Sheed and Manu ever winning a ring together. The Spurs have four rings in their entire history, and they were all won with Duncan being the best player on the court. Now this guy thinks taking him away would lead to almost equal success?

And this guy calls himself a Spurs fan. :oldlol:


I didnt want to do it, but ok....

Spurs-Pistons 2005 Finals Game 7

Tim Duncan:

43min
10-27 FG
11 Reb
3 Ast
5 TO
25 PTS

Manu Ginobili

34min
8-13 FG
6 Reb
4 Ast
2 TO
23 PTS

:rolleyes:



PD: Parker 3-12 (8 points) :facepalm

[robert_shaww]

Game 1 2005 NBA FINALS

Duncan
9-22 (24pts)

Ginobili
10-16 (26 pts)

:rolleyes:


Game 2 NBA 2005 NBA FINALS

Duncan 18 points 1 ast (38min)

Manu 27 points 7 ast 3 stl (31 min)

:facepalm

[T_L_P]

I didnt want to do it, but ok....

Spurs-Pistons 2005 Finals Game 7

Tim Duncan:

43min
10-27 FG
11 Reb
3 Ast
5 TO
25 PTS

Manu Ginobili

34min
8-13 FG
6 Reb
4 Ast
2 TO
23 PTS

:rolleyes:



PD: Parker 3-12 (8 points) :facepalm



OP, you need to step up your trolling.


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WY4D7-H6dIo/U2Bbop-uHYI/AAAAAAAACxU/E2cR9bIcKzk/s1600/14.jpg


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xzWYa-9QmcQ/U2BboicslxI/AAAAAAAACxQ/m7Loub0VOSg/s1600/15.jpg


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-mnHABVN7iFs/U2BboZaYYvI/AAAAAAAACxY/BGaQNuqbSR8/s1600/13.jpg
..

[robert_shaww]

..

NO FG%...:applause: :applause: :applause:

People mad at kobe for his 6-25 in 2010 Game 7 NBA FINALS

Duncan with 10-27 in 2005 Game 7 NBA FINALS

:rolleyes:

[robert_shaww]

i will tell you more, in 2005 NBA finals, you trade Hamilton or Billups for Ginobili and Pistons wins in 5.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

i will tell you more, in 2005 NBA finals, you trade Hamilton or Billups for Ginobili and Pistons wins in 5.
Hamilton yes, unsure about billups though, him on Parker was a good matchup for Detroit

[rmt]

I didnt want to do it, but ok....

Spurs-Pistons 2005 Finals Game 7

Tim Duncan:

43min
10-27 FG
11 Reb
3 Ast
5 TO
25 PTS

Manu Ginobili

34min
8-13 FG
6 Reb
4 Ast
2 TO
23 PTS

:rolleyes:

PD: Parker 3-12 (8 points) :facepalm

This is what happens when one goes by box score instead of watching the game. Here's the opinion of Parker, Ben Wallace, Larry Brown and Pop:

He was the fulcrum of virtually every key play down the stretch.

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

"Rasheed was strapped all game," Brown said. "If you don't have your big people with the ability to play aggressively on Duncan, you've got no shot."

http://web.archive.org/web/20090219212308/http://www.nba.com/games/20050623/DETSAS/recap.html

[rmt]

I believe Duncan is overrated, Parker was the best player in 07 and Manu in 05 (not only in the finals, also conference finals, semis and 1st round).

Manu saved duncan in the clutch in MULTIPLE playoffs games in the past...and still playing better than him in 2014 (27min vs 38min)

Duncan is a legend, of course, but he is not top 10, probably top 20.

(im not talking about ray allen shot saving lebron, paxton saving jordan, horry saving shaq/kobe etc..., im talking about carrying his team...not 1 shot)

2007 Regular Season

Duncan 20 pts / 10.6 rebs / 3.4 assts / 2.4 blks 54.6%FG all-nba 1st team, all-defense 1st team
Parker 18.6 pts / 5.5 asst 52%

2007 Playoffs

Duncan 22.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 3.3 assts / 52.1%
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.8 assts 48.9%

Using PER 36 stats is ridiculous. Manu could never maintain his stats playing those minutes. He's fragile, gets injured often, and takes forever to regain his rhythm. Can't believe that a Spur fan (one who watches the games) could ever be saying some of the stuff robert shaww is saying like Duncan top 20? He needs to watch some 03 and 2nd year Duncan.

Manu is not even on the level of Parker. At least Parker can carry a team night in, night out throughout seasons. Manu is not on Ray Allen's level either - Ray was the franchise player for Seattle. Don't get me wrong - Manu's playing well this series, but he can't do it night in, night out, year after year.

[robert_shaww]

2007 Regular Season

Duncan 20 pts / 10.6 rebs / 3.4 assts / 2.4 blks 54.6%FG all-nba 1st team, all-defense 1st team
Parker 18.6 pts / 5.5 asst 52%

2007 Playoffs

Duncan 22.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 3.3 assts / 52.1%
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.8 assts 48.9%

Using PER 36 stats is ridiculous. Manu could never maintain his stats playing those minutes. He's fragile, gets injured often, and takes forever to regain his rhythm. Can't believe that a Spur fan (one who watches the games) could ever be saying some of the stuff robert shaww is saying like Duncan top 20? He needs to watch some 03 and 2nd year Duncan.

Manu is not even on the level of Parker. At least Parker can carry a team night in, night out throughout seasons. Manu is not on Ray Allen's level either - Ray was the franchise player for Seattle. Don't get me wrong - Manu's playing well this series, but he can't do it night in, night out, year after year.

:facepalm