To start your team, Howard or Marc Gasol?

[Dr.J4ever]

I'm taking Gasol. He is every bit as good defensively than Howard, and offensively, he is more well rounded. He can pass, shoot from mid range, post up, play tough, and makes his teammates play better.

[Smook A.]

I'm taking Gasol. He is every bit as good defensively than Howard, and offensively, he is more well rounded. He can pass, shoot from mid range, post up, play tough, and makes his teammates play better.
Nope

[SilkkTheShocker]

Howard easily. Call me Gasol leads a team to the Finals

[Dr.J4ever]

Howard easily. Call me Gasol leads a team to the Finals
Howard easily? In a close game, and with your team down by 2 points, is Howard an option for you offensively? Meanwhile, with Gasol, he is definitely a go to option for me in the high post or even the low post where he can shoot or pass very well. Free throws? No problem.

Not so with Howard.

[Real14]

Howard, then melo

[tpols]

howard gets buckets here and there off putbacks/setups and a few post ups in between turning the ball over, and bricking FTs. In the clutch he's a liability. Marc can facilitate an offense for the whole game, catching and passing to 3 pt shooters and z-bo and tony allen cuts.. giving the team great spacing. Theyre not far off defense and rebounding wise.. I'd want marc over dwight since he does all the little things offensively throughout the game that contribute to a nice flowing offense(even if memphis doesnt have a lot of offensive star power).. dwight has no rythym passing the ball or control on offense.

[Mr Exlax]

Marc might be better late in the 4th quarter of a close game. Dwoght puts you so far ahead tgat it doesn't matter come that time. Something like that.

[Rocketswin2013]

Marc barely notches block and gets like 6 Reb a game........... Shoots under 50%................

[Dr.J4ever]

howard gets buckets here and there off putbacks/setups and a few post ups in between turning the ball over, and bricking FTs. In the clutch he's a liability. Marc can facilitate an offense for the whole game, catching and passing to 3 pt shooters and z-bo and tony allen cuts.. giving the team great spacing. Theyre not far off defense and rebounding wise.. I'd want marc over dwight since he does all the little things offensively throughout the game that contribute to a nice flowing offense(even if memphis doesnt have a lot of offensive star power).. dwight has no rythym passing the ball or control on offense.
Exactly. Howard is easily one of the more hyped players here in ISH. I mean he's obviously a great athlete, and very strong, but is he a player that can lead a team?

I say no.

[Im Still Ballin]

I donno about this one. Who's the better player? Dwight. That being said, he has some critical flaws that always seem to come back into the spotlight, and are exposed in critical situations. Rarely can we say that about Gasol, he is very well rounded and very versatile on both ends.

Hard to say, to start a team i'd say Howard, just because i know i can throw shooters around him and the team would be half decent. Dont know if you can say the same about Gasol?

[kentatm]

Howard easily? In a close game, and with your team down by 2 points, is Howard an option for you offensively? Meanwhile, with Gasol, he is definitely a go to option for me in the high post or even the low post where he can shoot or pass very well. Free throws? No problem.

Not so with Howard.


winner

:cheers:

[Rocketswin2013]

It's really not even close on either end.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Exactly. Howard is easily one of the more hyped players here in ISH. I mean he's obviously a great athlete, and very strong, but is he a player that can lead a team?

I say no.

He did, to the NBA Finals as the best player.

[Rocketswin2013]

People really think Gasol is even in Howard's tier defensively? He has better defenders on his team, he wins that. But as a player it's not close. AT ALL.

[Dr.J4ever]

He did, to the NBA Finals as the best player.
Hedo had a lot to do with that, especially in late game situations.

[Dr.J4ever]

People really think Gasol is even in Howard's tier defensively? Heh as better defenders on his team, he wins that. But as a player it's not close. AT ALL.
Was it last year that Gasol was DPOY?

[SCdac]

Since NBA is a team game I'd probably roll with Gasol then save money for other areas, point guard, small forward, etc. I'd accept the drop off in alley oops and put back dunks from Howard for Gasol's nice midrange game and 3-4+ assists in the post. It's not like Dwight was taking LA anywhere without Kobe or the Magic back to the Finals based on his offense alone. His atheltic offense is great relative to his era of bigmen but it's largely overrated IMO.

[tpols]

He did, to the NBA Finals as the best player.

Howard's perimeter gave him enormous help in that run.. they were absolutely on fire from 3 and Howard back then actually had a dominant inside game and was more active/mobile. He was flat out better and in a perfect system full of snipers to make doubling as costly as possible.

I thought we were talking about current howard.. and in that case I'll have to see how marcs game goes with age. Gut tells me his skill will transition nicely for years to come where as howard will soon be a shell. Ill take the better long term investment in that case

[Dr.J4ever]

Howard's perimeter gave him enormous help in that run.. they were absolutely on fire from 3 and Howard back then actually had a dominant inside game and was more active/mobile. He was flat out better and in a perfect system full of snipers to make doubling as costly as possible.

I thought we were talking about current howard.. and in that case I'll have to see how marcs game goes with age. Gut tells me his skill will transition nicely for years to come where as howard will soon be a shell. Ill take the better long term investment in that case
Good assessment. The thing about Howard is yes, he piles up the stats more than Gasol. This is the perfect example of the saying in basketball that you have to watch the games. Watching both playoff series', you will see which team values their center more.

Gasol just does more things for his team. This is pretty much undeniable.

[-Lebron23-]

Was it last year that Gasol was DPOY?
Watch Gortat get it next year :facepalm

[atljonesbro]

Is this even a thread? Man the disrespect toward Howard is unreal. Gasol isn't even close to Howard :oldlol:

[Xiao Yao You]

Gasol

[Dr.J4ever]

Is this even a thread? Man the disrespect toward Howard is unreal. Gasol isn't even close to Howard :oldlol:
Really? Howard is teamed up with Harden and a Rocket team supposedly challenging for the title, but down 3-1 against a 1st round underdog.

Meanwhile, Gasol has his underdog Memphis putting OKC, an even bigger favorite for the NBA title, on the ropes. Ask Memphis how central a role Gasol plays for them.

[iznogood]

I'm taking Gasol. He's a more versatile player in my opinion and probably a better teammate, therefore easier to build around.

[atljonesbro]

Really? Howard is teamed up with Harden and a Rocket team supposedly challenging for the title, but down 3-1 against a 1st round underdog.

Meanwhile, Gasol has his underdog Memphis putting OKC, an even bigger favorite for the NBA title, on the ropes. Ask Memphis how central a role Gasol plays for them?
Yeah, Gasol is doing it all by himself. His legendary 16 ppg on 41% at 7'1 and 9 rpg WOW this guy is really putting the team on his back. All time great numbers, crazy performance. We probably won't see anything like this for years.

Meanwhile Howard is putting up a lowly 27/14 and completely anchoring this defense. He's definitely the reason they're losing. Harden is playing incredible right now, if only Howard would stop shitting the bed.

[Rocketswin2013]

Howard's perimeter gave him enormous help in that run.. they were absolutely on fire from 3 and Howard back then actually had a dominant inside game and was more active/mobile. He was flat out better and in a perfect system full of snipers to make doubling as costly as possible.

I thought we were talking about current howard.. and in that case I'll have to see how marcs game goes with age. Gut tells me his skill will transition nicely for years to come where as howard will soon be a shell. Ill take the better long term investment in that case
The rage........



Dwight's perimeter was getting their asses CARRIED. None, and I MEAN NONE could play defense.

The differencen now is the coach. SVG created a system where Turkolough could LOOK like an elite defender.


Olrando was all SVG and DWIGHT. Dwight Howard is a GREAT defnder and when engaged a top 5 NBA player. Dude just neeeds motivation and taht's something shit coaches like D'antoni and McHale can't give him in the regular season. But in the playoff there are probably only 4 or 5 players better.

[Rocketswin2013]

Since NBA is a team game I'd probably roll with Gasol then save money for other areas, point guard, small forward, etc. I'd accept the drop off in alley oops and put back dunks from Howard for Gasol's nice midrange game and 3-4+ assists in the post. It's not like Dwight was taking LA anywhere without Kobe or the Magic back to the Finals based on his offense alone. His atheltic offense is great relative to his era of bigmen but it's largely overrated IMO.
You're a clown. Nothing you just said can even be backed up and you're really one of those idiots who would take more productive players over the other because you don't like them personally and obviously cannot even come close to being unbiased.

[SilkkTheShocker]

People picking Gasol are smoking crack or have an agenda. Maybe both :oldlol:

[tpols]

Yeah, Gasol is doing it all by himself. His legendary 16 ppg on 41% at 7'1 and 9 rpg WOW this guy is really putting the team on his back. All time great numbers, crazy performance. We probably won't see anything like this for years.

Meanwhile Howard is putting up a lowly 27/14. He's definitely the reason they're losing. Harden is playing incredible right now, if only Howard would stop shitting the bed.

this is why stats suck:facepalm

Howard can get his 27 points in 15 or so possesions.. but on all of the other possessions he does little else to contribute to an effective offense. Houston just isos and tries to get out running for cheap buckets but they have no chemistry between their backcourt and Howard.

Gasol on the other hand is a decision maker in damn near every play and facilitates the offense.. which isnt star studded btw. It's slow and methodical and ugly, but it breaks teams down and allows memphis to always have their defense set. Can you imagine memphis with Howard on it?:roll: They would lose all control and rythym..

[Rocketswin2013]

It's one thing to block shots. But it's another ot do that AND rebound.


Gasol would struggle to get 6 rebounds on this stupid team. Memphis plays for his niche and Houston doesn't for Howard..........

But even through all of that guess who's still more impactful....


Jesus christ I can't wait for us to get a new coach. This non-existent system and terribly ran team is giving idiots more and more ammo.

[Rocketswin2013]

this is why stats suck:facepalm

Howard can get his 27 points in 15 or so possesions.. but on all of the other possessions he does little else to contribute to an effective offense. Houston just isos and tries to get out running for cheap buckets but they have no chemistry between their backcourt and Howard.

Gasol on the other hand is a decision maker in damn near every play and facilitates the offense.. which isnt star studded btw. It's ugly but can you imagine memphis with Howard on it?:roll: They would lose all control and rythym.
What can he do? Harden loves to waive off picks and McHale lets him do it.


In any case, McHale makes it HARDER for him to suceed than anything.

[atljonesbro]

this is why stats suck:facepalm

Howard can get his 27 points in 15 or so possesions.. but on all of the other possessions he does little else to contribute to an effective offense. Houston just isos and tries to get out running for cheap buckets but they have no chemistry between their backcourt and Howard.

Gasol on the other hand is a decision maker in damn near every play and facilitates the offense.. which isnt star studded btw. It's slow and methodical and ugly, but it breaks teams down and allows memphis to always have their defense set. Can you imagine memphis with Howard on it?:roll: They would lose all control and rythym..
Lol another typical case of facts not fitting someones argument and them instantly discrediting it. Give it up, Gasol can't compare to Howard on basically any level of basketball except passing. You wanna talk about impact off the stat sheet? Howard defensive impact far surpasses anything Gasol could ever achieve. Look at his perimeter defenders compared to Gasol's... lol. He accounts for much more.

[zizozain]

Marc Gasol














-

[tpols]

Lol another typical case of facts not fitting someones argument and them instantly discrediting it. Give it up, Gasol can't compare to Howard on basically any level of basketball except passing. You wanna talk about impact off the stat sheet? Howard defensive impact far surpasses anything Gasol could ever achieve. Look at his perimeter defenders compared to Gasol's... lol. He accounts for much more.

so hes better at running a team offense and is also a former DPOY.. not as good as dwight on defense but his overall game is more well rounded. Thats why I would take Gasol

[atljonesbro]

so hes better at running a team offense and is also a former DPOY.. not as good as dwight on defense but his overall game is more well rounded. Thats why I would take Gasol
By more well rounded you mean:

Worse scorer, worse defender, worse rebounder, but better passer?

Delusional lmao. His "ability run an offense" still doesn't put him anywhere near Howard's level.

[Rocketswin2013]

After a certain point...............

You notice the influx of people choosing Gasol is just people who want to go against what has been the norm for the past 6 years and choose somebody else to be controversial..........


No way people actually think this dude is better at basketball.........

[atljonesbro]

After a certain point...............

You notice the influx of people choosing Gasol is just people who want to go against what has been the norm for the past 6 years and choose somebody else to be controversial..........


No way people actually think this dude is better at basketball.........
True. It's super common for people on this forum to go against the grain just so they can stand out. Giving the illusion they're seeing something that we don't when they actually just look clueless.

[SCdac]

Yeah, Gasol is doing it all by himself. His legendary 16 ppg on 41% at 7'1 and 9 rpg WOW this guy is really putting the team on his back. All time great numbers, crazy performance. We probably won't see anything like this for years.

Meanwhile Howard is putting up a lowly 27/14 and completely anchoring this defense. He's definitely the reason they're losing. Harden is playing incredible right now, if only Howard would stop shitting the bed.

As far as the raw stats, as others have said the Grizzlies average 96.8 ppg in this series and play at a much slower pace (slowest pace in the league in the RS). Howard is scoring his 27 ppg for a team putting up 116.5 ppg and the defense he's anchoring is laughably bad. Attribute that to him or not, obviously it's not all on him, but it's not like he's out there ordering his fellow defenders around or keeping teammates in check like a KG would. At least Gasol can create for others and utilize his range while also being a top notch defender. So many people on ISH fall in love stats without looking at the context in which they come

[SilkkTheShocker]

After a certain point...............

You notice the influx of people choosing Gasol is just people who want to go against what has been the norm for the past 6 years and choose somebody else to be controversial..........


No way people actually think this dude is better at basketball.........

This. Gun to their heads to pick, none of them are taking Gasol over Dwight.

[atljonesbro]

As far as the raw stats, as others have said the Grizzlies average 96.8 ppg in this series and play at a much slower pace (slowest pace in the league in the RS). Howard is scoring his 27 ppg for a team putting up 116.5 ppg and the defense he's anchoring is laughably bad. Attribute that to him or not, obviously it's not all on him, but it's not like he's out there ordering his fellow defenders around or keeping teammates in check like a KG would. At least Gasol can create for others and utilize his range while also being a top notch defender. So many people on ISH fall in love stats without looking at the context in which they come
And what does that 41% have to do with the low scoring? Him getting more looks in the Rockets offense would likely lead to a lower FG%, which more attempts usually does. Guy would be under 40% at 7'1, essentially useless out there when it comes to scoring. He still is an awful rebounder for his size and concerning the defense, again, look at his perimeter defenders compared to Gasol. If Howard wasn't in that lineup who knows how much worse that defense would be. The numbers really do tell the story when they are so much in Howard's favor.

[tpols]

By more well rounded you mean:

Worse scorer, worse defender, worse rebounder, but better passer?

Delusional lmao. His "ability run an offense" still doesn't put him anywhere near Howard's level.


slightly worse on defense and rebounding, but better offensive package.. if gasol was a slouch defensively you'd have a point but hes a former DPOY last I checked.

Howard may have better scoring numbers but he's strictly an individual offensive player. He doesnt create or set up for his teammates. Marc's value offensively is higher because he operates on a totally different level of control.. and he gets the whole team involved. His offensive impact goes far beyond the boxscore

[rhowen4]

If Dwight ran more pick and rolls he might take that step towards being elite on offense

But when I choose Marc, I do so knowing Dwight is a better player but with less plugability/versatility than Marc

[atljonesbro]

slightly worse on defense and rebounding, but better offensive package.. if gasol was a slouch defensively you'd have a point but hes a former DPOY last I checked.

Howard may have better scoring numbers but he's strictly an individual offensive player. He doesn't create or set up for his teammates. Marc's value offensively is higher because he operates on a totally different level of control.. and he gets the whole team involved. His offensive impact goes far beyond the boxscore
"Slightly worse rebounder"

Gasol Regular Season: 7 rpg,
Howard Regular Season: 12 rpg

Gasol Post Season: 9 rpg
Howard Post Season: 14 rpg

And again, Howard has far more defensive impact because he doesn't have guys like Conley and Allen playing the defense they are out on the perimeter. He has to do much more. And the guy is a pretty bad scorer. At 7'1 you shouldn't be shooting 41%.

[SCdac]

And what does that 41% have to do with the low scoring? Him getting more looks in the Rockets offense would likely lead to a lower FG%, which more attempts usually does. Guy would be under 40% at 7'1, essentially useless out there when it comes to scoring. He still is an awful rebounder for his size and concerning the defense, again, look at his perimeter defenders compared to Gasol. If Howard wasn't in that lineup who knows how much worse that defense would be. The numbers really do tell the story when they are so much in Howard's favor.

Would it though? Houston's offense makes good (but not necessarily great) players like Parsons look like All Stars. Freaking Omer Asik averaged double figures in their fast pace offense and he's flat out pedestrian on offense. But the whole run-and-gun system doesn't really work in the playoffs anyways, at least not in the last 20 years. Inflates stats but isn't reliable. Dwight is better suited for a half court team, but even then, I'd say his offense is overrated and he's too turnover prone/foul prone. Dude lead the league amongst big men in turnovers for like 4-5 years straight, and after 10 seasons in the league teams know his rigid post game game by now, which is why he see's so much single coverage.

[tpols]

"Slightly worse rebounder"

Gasol Regular Season: 7 rpg,
Howard Regular Season: 12 rpg

Gasol Post Season: 9 rpg
Howard Post Season: 14 rpg

And again, Howard has far more defensive impact because he doesn't have guys like Conley and Allen playing the defense they are out on the perimeter. He has to do much more. And the guy is a pretty bad scorer. At 7'1 you shouldn't be shooting 41%.

who cares? Gasol isnt out there playing for stats. Tony Allen is a tenacious rebounder.. is grabbing 9 rpg in the playoffs for a SG. Thats insane. Z-Bo is a great rebounder. Gasol is the defensive anchor on an elite defensive team full of great rebounders and his job is to protect the rim with his length and put a body on someone so that memphis can get a gang rebound.

Howard's playing next to a tiny jones and is the only competent rebounder in his whole starting lineup playing run and gun small ball. It's apples and oranges.

Gasol isnt out there for a statline.. he just fills the voids that need to be filled in whatever area. Boxing out, rim protection, hedging, outlet passing, posting, jumpshooting, finding cutters, screen setting.. his game is far more well rounded than howards.

[KD35Brah]

Gasol would NEVER be able to get the two blocks that Howard got in the OT game in 4.

Hoawrd>Gasol and it's not even close.

[Dr.J4ever]

who cares? Gasol isnt out there playing for stats. Tony Allen is a tenacious rebounder.. is grabbing 9 rpg in the playoffs for a SG. Thats insane. Z-Bo is a great rebounder. Gasol is the defensive anchor on an elite defensive team full of great rebounders and his job is to protect the rim with his length and put a body on someone so that memphis can get a gang rebound.

Howard's playing next to a tiny jones and is the only competent rebounder in his whole starting lineup playing run and gun small ball. It's apples and oranges.

Gasol isnt out there for a statline.. he just fills the voids that need to be filled in whatever area. Boxing out, rim protection, hedging, outlet passing, posting, jumpshooting, finding cutters, screen setting.. his game is far more well rounded than howards.
It's amazing how many people on this board love their stats. Stats to them reinforce the fantasy of their idols. They believe the hype from the league on who the stars are supposed to be. There are even some who amazingly love stats, but don't even watch the games very closely, or even some who watch the game to watch the stats, but don't really care to watch the biggest stat of all, winning and losing.

Yes, Gasol is not as talented as Howard. This is why, in most games, Howard will out rebound Gasol and get more dunks, but it has not been disputed here that Gasol is every bit the defender that Howard is, maybe more, just because of his size.

Offensively, Gasol is really clearly better. Many Howard points these days are specifically created by the Houston offense for him. In fact, Harden is struggling to incorporate Howard into their offense. Houston was a big scoring team BEFORE Howard got there.

Meanwhile, Gasol is not just the defensive anchor on a very good Memphis defense, but he is also CENTRAL to it's offense.

Does anyone get the feeling here that Houston would still be down 3-1 without Howard? Meaning, Howard has so far not made a difference. With Memphis, where would Memphis be vs. maybe the best team in the NBA in OKC? Maybe swept by now.

[IncarceratedBob]

I'm taking Marc

[Jameerthefear]

Like healthy Howard? It's Dwight and isn't even close.

[atljonesbro]

It's amazing how many people on this board love their stats. Stats to them reinforce the fantasy of their idols. They believe the hype from the league on who the stars are supposed to be. There are even some who amazingly love stats, but don't even watch the games very closely, or even some who watch the game to watch the stats, but don't really care to watch the biggest stat of all, winning and losing.

Yes, Gasol is not as talented as Howard. This is why, in most games, Howard will out rebound Gasol and get more dunks, but it has not been disputed here that Gasol is every bit the defender that Howard is, maybe more, just because of his size.

Offensively, Gasol is really clearly better. Many Howard points these days are specifically created by the Houston offense for him. In fact, Harden is struggling to incorporate Howard into their offense. Houston was a big scoring team BEFORE Howard got there.

Meanwhile, Gasol is not just the defensive anchor on a very good Memphis defense, but he is also CENTRAL to it's offense.

Does anyone get the feeling here that Houston would still be down 3-1 without Howard? Meaning, Howard has so far not made a difference. With Memphis, where would Memphis be vs. maybe the best team in the NBA in OKC? Maybe swept by now.
It's amazing how many people on this board love their eye test. Eye test to them reinforces their ego. They believe the since they disregard stats and claim they "watch the game" they are smarter than people who use stats. There are even some who amazingly love eye test, but dont even regard stats AT ALL, or even some who watch the game to watch tip outs and rotations, but don't really care to watch the points, rebounding, and percentages.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It's amazing how many people on this board love their eye test. Eye test to them reinforces their ego. They believe the since they disregard stats and claim they "watch the game" they are smarter than people who use stats. There are even some who amazingly love eye test, but dont even regard stats AT ALL, or even some who watch the game to watch tip outs and rotations, but don't really care to watch the points, rebounding, and percentages.

If you watch a game from tip to tip and need to check the stat sheet afterwards to determine who played the best then you weren't watching the game

[Dr.J4ever]

It's amazing how many people on this board love their eye test. Eye test to them reinforces their ego. They believe the since they disregard stats and claim they "watch the game" they are smarter than people who use stats. There are even some who amazingly love eye test, but dont even regard stats AT ALL, or even some who watch the game to watch tip outs and rotations, but don't really care to watch the points, rebounding, and percentages.
I hope you don't feel alluded to. I wasn't necessarily alluding to you.

I watch the biggest stat of all, wins and losses. Also, the player or players that that contributed most to making this happen.

[Dr.J4ever]

You have to give credit to Howard tonight. He paced the Rockets to a win. It's not over yet and the story is not done yet.

[Dr.J4ever]

You have to give credit to Howard tonight. He paced the Rockets to a win. It's not over yet and the story is not done yet.
Additionally, this is the type of game Howard should be playing.Again, forget about the stats, Howard keyed the Rockets tonight on both ends.

Wow LA didn't show up .Looks like he took a game off.

We will see if Howard can sustain his success tonight.

[Jameerthefear]

Pretty much one of the reasons Dwight is so much better than Gasol. Impact wise Gasol isn't close.

[VIntageNOvel]

anyone taking dwight howard is racist and need to be banned from any NBA related activity (yes including posting in messageboard)

[Dr.J4ever]

Pretty much one of the reasons Dwight is so much better than Gasol. Impact wise Gasol isn't close.
Moving forward we will see. I've seen Gasol have huge playoff games on both ends too. Howard has to get back to playing on the defensive end first, the boards at number 2, and his offense, if he makes his FTs will follow. This is the way he played with Orlando.