Replace Bran with prime Bird on the Cavs

[yarrak]

Honestly, I can't see him carrying those scrubs to the finals and deep playoff runs. We know what LeBron can do with scrubs. What do you think Bird would do without a stacked team?

LeBron James,.. 2009 playoffs: 35.3ppg 51%fg 9reb 7ast:bowdown:
38/8/8 against Orlando in the ECF (best defensive team in the league that year):bowdown:

That's some GOAT type of playoff run right there. Can't see Bird doing that with scrubs.

Discuss how you think Bird would perform on those Cavs teams from 06-10.

[ArbitraryWater]

not this again... the way you typed it all out is to bait.

yea, bird wouldnt win shit with those teams... the extra attention on offense, and 08-10 defense by lbj, he couldnt give you that...

[pastis]

bird would'nt win anything. that is clear. bird always had good teams around him, not like lebron at the cavs, were his secon best player was some1 called "mo".

[Hey Yo]

Honestly, I can't see him carrying those scrubs to the finals and deep playoff runs. We know what LeBron can do with scrubs. What do you think Bird would do without a stacked team?

LeBron James,.. 2009 playoffs: 35.3ppg 51%fg 9reb 7ast:bowdown:
38/8/8 against Orlando in the ECF (best defensive team in the league that year):bowdown:

That's some GOAT type of playoff run right there. Can't see Bird doing that with scrubs.

Discuss how you think Bird would perform on those Cavs teams from 06-10.
The year before Birds rookie year, the Celtics went 29-53. His rookie year they went 61-21.

The roster wasn't much different in both years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1979.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1980.html

His impact would have been the same if not more.

[outbreak]

The year before Birds rookie year, the Celtics went 29-53. His rookie year they went 61-21.

The roster wasn't much different in both years.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1979.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/1980.html

His impact would have been the same if not more.

Bird was so much better than people give him credit for. I'm guessing most of the posters who will act like he would do nothing haven't really watched him play. You can't just take a player from a different era though, you need to take into account that they grew up learning different skills and the game was totally different.

[iTare]

lebron > bird

[SuperCereal]

Bird was so much better than people give him credit for. I'm guessing most of the posters who will act like he would do nothing haven't really watched him play. You can't just take a player from a different era though, you need to take into account that they grew up learning different skills and the game was totally different.
+1

[yarrak]

Bird was so much better than people give him credit for. I'm guessing most of the posters who will act like he would do nothing haven't really watched him play. You can't just take a player from a different era though, you need to take into account that they grew up learning different skills and the game was totally different.

I'm not saying he would do nothing. Obviously he was an amazing passer and a great shooter. You can't take everything away from great players but I really don't think he would be able to perform the way LeBron did.

[SHAQisGOAT]

-In 1980, Celtics went from 29W-53L (2nd worst record) to 61W-21L (best record) and the ECF, when Bird got there, with pretty much the same roster. And no tanking (teams didn't even do it to today's level) because Larry was already drafted.. Attendances at an all-time low, internal problems, management problems, Red almost leaving, also..
He was ROY, all-nba 1st, 4th in MVP voting, all-star, 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg... Just so you understand his impact. No Parish or McHale for that matter lmao.

-In 1981, Cowens was gone and they added Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as much at all with the Warriors, and Bird led them to a championship while outplaying MVP Julius Erving coming back from a 3-1 deficit in the "real" Finals, the ECF... Then, only player to average 15+/15+/7+ in a Finals series and frankly should've been named FMVP.

-In the 1984 Playoffs, most of Bird's teammates were playing below their (RS) standards while he was tearing shit up and leading them to a title... Led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% (!!!!), just for you to see what he was doing and how his teammates were coming up short... In the Finals against the Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis or Scott, it was more of the same.

.............

Just some examples but people rather look at names (plenty that Bird "made) and neglect all of the rest.. Also, the fact that he was playing in arguably the GOAT decade in the GOAT conference.

--> If Lebron got to the Finals (in the weak-ass East lol), least Bird would've done would be not to get swept by the Spurs... And he'd sure as hell would be winning in 2011. Also, given the superstar competition, he'd be racking up them MVPs.

Silly ass kids that never saw much from Bird apart from 3 min highlight vids, ignorant children that know nothing and don't even know what he was capable of, what he was doing, his crazy impact... Then dropping some ignorant phrases and acting like they know anything, like those are facts or something :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
If you're gonna make this type of threads at least stop making stupid-ass comments based off of nothing.

[AnaheimLakers24]

chip in 07

[CelticBaller]

sweep the spurs

[RoundMoundOfReb]

LeBron skillset is more tuned to carry a shitty team than Bird's is. On the current Heat I think Bird would make them better but on the Cavs LeBron would.

[Akrazotile]

Prime Bird = Luke Walton with a wet jumper.


Amirite??

[oarabbus]

Honestly, I can't see him carrying those scrubs to the finals and deep playoff runs. We know what LeBron can do with scrubs. What do you think Bird would do without a stacked team?

LeBron James,.. 2009 playoffs: 35.3ppg 51%fg 9reb 7ast:bowdown:
38/8/8 against Orlando in the ECF (best defensive team in the league that year):bowdown:

That's some GOAT type of playoff run right there. Can't see Bird doing that with scrubs.

Discuss how you think Bird would perform on those Cavs teams from 06-10.


3-peat, 3x FMVP :confusedshrug:

Bird is just better than Lebron.

[Trollsmasher]

Bird would not sniff playoffs once

[TheReal Kendall]

2 different type of players with different skill sets.

IMO Bird is the better player but those Cavs teams were built for Lebron's skills.

I don't think Bird would have much success with them.

[Verticality]

Bird may not put up the same stats (although he could have as well), but the one thing I'm confident on is that he would not have mentally collapsed during important games in the playoffs. No way Bird quits on the team like LeBron did in the Magic series of 2010.

[livinglegend]

2 different type of players with different skill sets.

IMO Bird is the better player but those Cavs teams were built for Lebron's skills.

I don't think Bird would have much success with them.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bAa7Ue5l_-E/UV_luxvsHXI/AAAAAAAALLo/HJmQMGbZQQM/s1600/goodfellas-laughing.gif

[SHAQisGOAT]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-bAa7Ue5l_-E/UV_luxvsHXI/AAAAAAAALLo/HJmQMGbZQQM/s1600/goodfellas-laughing.gif

Great movie..

And yea, Bird has the edge as far as peaks.. Just a living legend

[JellyBean]

"Discuss how you think Bird would perform on those Cavs teams from 06-10."

Bird would have put up decent numbers and had the Cavs competitive. But playoff ready? Nope.

[yarrak]

Bird may not put up the same stats (although he could have as well), but the one thing I'm confident on is that he would not have mentally collapsed during important games in the playoffs. No way Bird quits on the team like LeBron did in the Magic series of 2010.

He averaged 38/8/8 against the Magic.:facepalm :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

Bron fans are the only fan group that try and prop up a 5 game series in which their player lost as a GOAT series

[Lebron23]

Zero rings.

[Fire Colangelo]

-In 1980, Celtics went from 29W-53L (2nd worst record) to 61W-21L (best record) and the ECF, when Bird got there, with pretty much the same roster. And no tanking (teams didn't even do it to today's level) because Larry was already drafted.. Attendances at an all-time low, internal problems, management problems, Red almost leaving, also..
He was ROY, all-nba 1st, 4th in MVP voting, all-star, 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg... Just so you understand his impact. No Parish or McHale for that matter lmao.

-In 1981, Cowens was gone and they added Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as much at all with the Warriors, and Bird led them to a championship while outplaying MVP Julius Erving coming back from a 3-1 deficit in the "real" Finals, the ECF... Then, only player to average 15+/7+/7+ in a Finals series and frankly should've been named FMVP.

-In the 1984 Playoffs, most of Bird's teammates were playing below their (RS) standards while he was tearing shit up and leading them to a title... Led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% (!!!!), just for you to see what he was doing and how his teammates were coming up short... In the Finals against the Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis or Scott, it was more of the same.

.............

Just some examples but people rather look at names (plenty that Bird "made) and neglect all of the rest.. Also, the fact that he was playing in arguably the GOAT decade in the GOAT conference.

--> If Lebron got to the Finals (in the weak-ass East lol), least Bird would've done would be not to get swept by the Spurs... And he'd sure as hell would be winning in 2011. Also, given the superstar competition, he'd be racking up them MVPs.

Silly ass kids that never saw much from Bird apart from 3 min highlight vids, ignorant children that know nothing and don't even know what he was capable of, what he was doing, his crazy impact... Then dropping some ignorant phrases and acting like they know anything, like those are facts or something :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
If you're gonna make this type of threads at least stop making stupid-ass comments based off of nothing.

I'm not gonna compare rookie Bird to a rookie LeBron. Rookie LeBron was only 19 years old, and he obviously wasn't as polished as a 23 year old Bird. However, I do think 23 year old LeBron (the one that averaged like 30/8/7) impacts the game just as much, if not more than 23 year old Bird.

You act like Parish was some scrub before joining the Celtics. He was a 17/10 player with the Warriors, and that's what he was with the Celtics. Bird didn't make Parish a better player when he became a Celtic, as you've said already, Parish was already 27 years old. Bird did indeed outplay Doc in the 1981 ECF, but the Celtics were expected to sweep the Rockets, and Bird played below his standards (not that 15/15/7 is bad, just he couldn't get his shot).

Anyways, we hear about Bird's runs in 84, 86 and 81 (did not impress me). Why do we never hear about his sub 40% FG series in 82 ECF? What about when his team got swept in the 2nd round in 83?

Bird was an amazing player, he's had amazing performances in the playoffs but he's also had very mediocre ones. Larry had series when he wasn't even the best player on his team. The difference between LeBron and Bird? When Bird has a bad series, the Celtics still has a winning chance because someone else steps up. When LeBron has a bad series, the Cavs/Heat lose. And no, this really has nothing to do with "player x makes his team better" BS. Bird had the better teammates, period.

When Larry Bird puts up 20/7/6 on 42% against the the 76ers in the 1985 ECF, McHale puts up 21/11/2 on 54%. When Bird 24/9/5 gets 45% against the Lakers in the 1985 Finals, McHale averages 26/10 on 60% (they lost the series, which they would've won had Bird performed to his usual standards).

What about 88 ECF when Bird shot like 35%?

LeBron didn't have a McHale/Parish/DJ kind of player that he could rely on when he struggled until he had Wade in Miami. And what happened when he got to Miami? Back to back champs.

When LeBron left the Cavs, the Cavs won like 20 games. So there's that similar impact that Bird had on the Celtics.

I've read your posts before, and I know you're probably an old timer who thinks 80s era > this era, and that's fine. I still think Bird > LeBron, but don't act like it isn't even close. It's pretty close.

[Pushxx]

I don't know, but if you were to replace LeBron with any player to better that team, Bird is one of the best couple choices.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

lebron > bird
:applause: :applause:

[SHAQisGOAT]

I'm not gonna compare rookie Bird to a rookie LeBron. Rookie LeBron was only 19 years old, and he obviously wasn't as polished as a 23 year old Bird. However, I do think 23 year old LeBron (the one that averaged like 30/8/7) impacts the game just as much, if not more than 23 year old Bird.

You act like Parish was some scrub before joining the Celtics. He was a 17/10 player with the Warriors, and that's what he was with the Celtics. Bird didn't make Parish a better player when he became a Celtic, as you've said already, Parish was already 27 years old. Bird did indeed outplay Doc in the 1981 ECF, but the Celtics were expected to sweep the Rockets, and Bird played below his standards (not that 15/15/7 is bad, just he couldn't get his shot).

Anyways, we hear about Bird's runs in 84, 86 and 81 (did not impress me). Why do we never hear about his sub 40% FG series in 82 ECF? What about when his team got swept in the 2nd round in 83?

Bird was an amazing player, he's had amazing performances in the playoffs but he's also had very mediocre ones. Larry had series when he wasn't even the best player on his team. The difference between LeBron and Bird? When Bird has a bad series, the Celtics still has a winning chance because someone else steps up. When LeBron has a bad series, the Cavs/Heat lose. And no, this really has nothing to do with "player x makes his team better" BS. Bird had the better teammates, period.

When Larry Bird puts up 20/7/6 on 42% against the the 76ers in the 1985 ECF, McHale puts up 21/11/2 on 54%. When Bird 24/9/5 gets 45% against the Lakers in the 1985 Finals, McHale averages 26/10 on 60% (they lost the series, which they would've won had Bird performed to his usual standards).

What about 88 ECF when Bird shot like 35%?

LeBron didn't have a McHale/Parish/DJ kind of player that he could rely on when he struggled until he had Wade in Miami. And what happened when he got to Miami? Back to back champs.

When LeBron left the Cavs, the Cavs won like 20 games. So there's that similar impact that Bird had on the Celtics.

I've read your posts before, and I know you're probably an old timer who thinks 80s era > this era, and that's fine. I still think Bird > LeBron, but don't act like it isn't even close. It's pretty close.


All good to mention things like youngest to reach a certain amount of points, all good to talk about longevity or number of seasons.... But then in this situation we can't compare rookie Lebron to rookie Bird :oldlol:
Make all the comparisons you want but at the end of the day people who know their stuff and aren't biased will tell you that Bird has the edge over Lebron as far as peaks/primes, and that Larry had higher impact, just how it is.

I acted like he was a scrub? When? All I said was that he wasn't viewed as much and that's the truth, go check everything you want. Tbh Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he kept on playing for the Warriors, people then say things like Bird played with x amount of HoF'ers, and so on, lmao, Bird "expert" at "making" names. Chief went from averaging 17 ppg on 51% to 19 ppg on 55%, in less minutes, though, while making the jump to all-star, making all-nba teams, getting MVP votes, so on.. No improvement at all :rolleyes: Guess that's all just coincidence, just like Bird turning the team from one of the worst to one of the best with the same roster, being always amongst the top in DWS or DRtg, so on.. just coincidences :rolleyes:

Celtics were expected to sweep the Rockets? Yea maybe (because of Larry), they still won though. Guess they were also expected to improve from 29W to 61W with Bird and the "same" players then win in the next year, expected to get past established powerhouse 76ers, come back from a 3-1 deficit, guess Larry was expected to outplay the MVP... Bird "made" people expect that and even when it wasn't expected he turned it around, that's what was so great about him.
You say he played below his standards in the 1981 Finals because that's how amazing Bird was.. Yea he was struggling with his shot but he still had some great performances and got the job done, was the 3rd best scorer in the series, almost outrebounded Moses, by far the best playmaker, played some great defense, got most attention too and got Cornbread some really easy looks, in the decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20 and 4/5, clutch af in the 4th.. Simply put he got the job done, led them there, biggest factor in their win.. Go look at Lebron's first Finals, better yet go look at Lebron's 2011 Finals with much more help than Bird.. shit Larry had a better Finals series (winning also counts) in his sophomore season with less help and we're discussion this?? :oldlol: Also watch the games and don't just look at stats, Legend didn't statpad his way through like Lebron, he did his job then just "stepped back" when the win was assured or just moved to the next one when loss was inevitable.

Yea he played below his standards in 1982 but everything he did before and after "cleans" that up, easily. Know why they got swept in 1983 (Bird didn't play one game so he technically didn't)? Because Bird was injured, just for you to see how important he was lol.

Again everyone has bad games, Bird's best stuff "cleans" that up though, easily.
You keep saying Bird had the better teammates, and I'll say it again, Bird led them from 2nd worst record to best and the ECF with the same roster (no McHale or Parish for that matter), and by his sophomore season he was leading them to titles with the main addition of Parish (guess he's the big factor here :rolleyes:).. when they played below their standards (like in 1984), Bird pulled them through and led them to many wins, show me the other way around for his teammates though.... You talk about help, what about 2011? Lebron had all the help, with top established players in the league (one top3/5), and Wade more than stepped up, please tell me what happened? And you're gonna continue to talk that ignorant shit? Gimme a break :lol

Yea they lost in 1985, wanna know why? Because Bird had an injured elbow and an injured hand... Had he been healthy they most likely would've won, like proven in 1984.. But you're the one saying that Bird didn't need to play well in order for them to win, then basically going against yourself :facepalm Oh and Bird didn't play in a weak-ass conference, but I guess he wasn't the best player on the team at times :oldlol: GTFOH, Bird was always the one with more impact, don't kid yourself, he was an all-around beast, he was always their leader, best and most impactful player.

What about 1987 when he destroyed the Pistons and made some really clutch plays, with a team that had literally no bench and everybody just breaking down? Keep talking about 1988 though, keep talking about a series just immediately before Bird had to get back surgery and surgery on both heels.. Lebron wouldn't even be playing, shit :oldlol:

What happened when he got to Miami? Well, he didn't get the job done in the Finals, with teammates stepping up and against a worse team... sweeping that under the rug huh? :roll:
Most of those players you've mentioned you only know their name because of Larry, they were major many times but mostly he was the one stepping up for them not the other way around, and not one of them was an established top player in the league on the same level as Wade or Bosh relatively to the rest of the competition, shit McHale was drafted and only hitting his prime around 1985. Bird was injured in 1989, and they dropped like 15W, getting swept in the 1st round, and with Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. where were those dudes stepping up and winning? Lol.

When Lebron left the Cavs the team just broke apart, not denying Lebron's impact but team wasn't really the same (as before, excluding Lebron of). But yea he had tremendous impact of, not denying that.

I might be an old-timer to you who are probably a teen. And yes I'd argue that the 80s are the GOAT era. I said it isn't close? Where? I'd even say peak/prime Bird has the EDGE over Lebron, that means it's pretty darn close, extremely close.

[Demitri98]

He makes the Finals in 07 just like Bron and maybe beats Orlando in '09 but loses in the Finals.
then he teams up with Wade and Bosh because he wants to win chips

[DMAVS41]

All good to mention things like youngest to reach a certain amount of points, all good to talk about longevity or number of seasons.... But then in this situation we can't compare rookie Lebron to rookie Bird :oldlol:
Make all the comparisons you want but at the end of the day people who know their stuff and aren't biased will tell you that Bird has the edge over Lebron as far as peaks/primes, and that Larry had higher impact, just how it is.

I acted like he was a scrub? When? All I said was that he wasn't viewed as much and that's the truth, go check everything you want. Tbh Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he kept on playing for the Warriors, people then say things like Bird played with x amount of HoF'ers, and so on, lmao, Bird "expert" at "making" names. Chief went from averaging 17 ppg on 51% to 19 ppg on 55%, in less minutes, though, while making the jump to all-star, making all-nba teams, getting MVP votes, so on.. No improvement at all :rolleyes: Guess that's all just coincidence, just like Bird turning the team from one of the worst to one of the best with the same roster, being always amongst the top in DWS or DRtg, so on.. just coincidences :rolleyes:

Celtics were expected to sweep the Rockets? Yea maybe (because of Larry), they still won though. Guess they were also expected to improve from 29W to 61W with Bird and the "same" players then win in the next year, expected to get past established powerhouse 76ers, come back from a 3-1 deficit, guess Larry was expected to outplay the MVP... Bird "made" people expect that and even when it wasn't expected he turned it around, that's what was so great about him.
You say he played below his standards in the 1981 Finals because that's how amazing Bird was.. Yea he was struggling with his shot but he still had some great performances and got the job done, was the 3rd best scorer in the series, almost outrebounded Moses, by far the best playmaker, played some great defense, got most attention too and got Cornbread some really easy looks, in the decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20 and 4/5, clutch af in the 4th.. Simply put he got the job done, led them there, biggest factor in their win.. Go look at Lebron's first Finals, better yet go look at Lebron's 2011 Finals with much more help than Bird.. shit Larry had a better Finals series (winning also counts) in his sophomore season with less help and we're discussion this?? :oldlol: Also watch the games and don't just look at stats, Legend didn't statpad his way through like Lebron, he did his job then just "stepped back" when the win was assured or just moved to the next one when loss was inevitable.

Yea he played below his standards in 1982 but everything he did before and after "cleans" that up, easily. Know why they got swept in 1983 (Bird didn't play one game so he technically didn't)? Because Bird was injured, just for you to see how important he was lol.

Again everyone has bad games, Bird's best stuff "cleans" that up though, easily.
You keep saying Bird had the better teammates, and I'll say it again, Bird led them from 2nd worst record to best and the ECF with the same roster (no McHale or Parish for that matter), and by his sophomore season he was leading them to titles with the main addition of Parish (guess he's the big factor here :rolleyes:).. when they played below their standards (like in 1984), Bird pulled them through and led them to many wins, show me the other way around for his teammates though.... You talk about help, what about 2011? Lebron had all the help, with top established players in the league (one top3/5), and Wade more than stepped up, please tell me what happened? And you're gonna continue to talk that ignorant shit? Gimme a break :lol

Yea they lost in 1985, wanna know why? Because Bird had an injured elbow and an injured hand... Had he been healthy they most likely would've won, like proven in 1984.. But you're the one saying that Bird didn't need to play well in order for them to win, then basically going against yourself :facepalm Oh and Bird didn't play in a weak-ass conference, but I guess he wasn't the best player on the team at times :oldlol: GTFOH, Bird was always the one with more impact, don't kid yourself, he was an all-around beast, he was always their leader, best and most impactful player.

What about 1987 when he destroyed the Pistons and made some really clutch plays, with a team that had literally no bench and everybody just breaking down? Keep talking about 1988 though, keep talking about a series just immediately before Bird had to get back surgery and surgery on both heels.. Lebron wouldn't even be playing, shit :oldlol:

What happened when he got to Miami? Well, he didn't get the job done in the Finals, with teammates stepping up and against a worse team... sweeping that under the rug huh? :roll:
Most of those players you've mentioned you only know their name because of Larry, they were major many times but mostly he was the one stepping up for them not the other way around, and not one of them was an established top player in the league on the same level as Wade or Bosh relatively to the rest of the competition, shit McHale was drafted and only hitting his prime around 1985. Bird was injured in 1989, and they dropped like 15W, getting swept in the 1st round, and with Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. where were those dudes stepping up and winning? Lol.

When Lebron left the Cavs the team just broke apart, not denying Lebron's impact but team wasn't really the same (as before, excluding Lebron of). But yea he had tremendous impact of, not denying that.

I might be an old-timer to you who are probably a teen. And yes I'd argue that the 80s are the GOAT era. I said it isn't close? Where? I'd even say peak/prime Bird has the EDGE over Lebron, that means it's pretty darn close, extremely close.



I have peak Bird over peak Lebron, but no...not everyone would agree with that. Acting like anyone that knows the game would give Bird the EDGE peak vs peak....just no. It is absolutely close enough that one could legitimately argue Lebron over Bird in terms of peak play....and certainly prime play.

[D.J.]

I think you would see Bird in more of a point forward role with those Cavs. Not that he didn't play point forward in Boston, but it wasn't the norm for him. I think that would be his primary position in Cleveland.

The thing to remember is that Bird was LeBron's equal in passing, could playmake right up there with him, was a significantly better shooter, and was also a better rebounder. I remember there was an article during the 1989-90 season about Bird playing point forward, which he did a good amount that year. He only averaged 24.3 PPG/9.5 RPG/7.5 APG. In '90 and '91, he was averaging over 7 APG.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He makes the Finals in 07 just like Bron and maybe beats Orlando in '09 but loses in the Finals.
then he teams up with Wade and Bosh because he wants to win chips
Is Bird going to guard Dwight and shut him down?

[Fire Colangelo]

All good to mention things like youngest to reach a certain amount of points, all good to talk about longevity or number of seasons.... But then in this situation we can't compare rookie Lebron to rookie Bird :oldlol:
Make all the comparisons you want but at the end of the day people who know their stuff and aren't biased will tell you that Bird has the edge over Lebron as far as peaks/primes, and that Larry had higher impact, just how it is.

Agreed, I think Larry has the edge over LeBron as far as peaks as well. Impact is a wash.


I acted like he was a scrub? When? All I said was that he wasn't viewed as much and that's the truth, go check everything you want. Tbh Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he kept on playing for the Warriors, people then say things like Bird played with x amount of HoF'ers, and so on, lmao, Bird "expert" at "making" names. Chief went from averaging 17 ppg on 51% to 19 ppg on 55%, in less minutes, though, while making the jump to all-star, making all-nba teams, getting MVP votes, so on.. No improvement at all :rolleyes: Guess that's all just coincidence, just like Bird turning the team from one of the worst to one of the best with the same roster, being always amongst the top in DWS or DRtg, so on.. just coincidences :rolleyes:

Disagree, he was a 17/10 type of guy before he joined the Celtics, and he was a 17/10 type of guy after he joined the Celtics. His role on the Celtics was to anchor the defines, and Larry Bird did not teach him how to play defense. The Chief was one of the leaders in DWS before he joined the Celtics.

Well yeah, winning gets you in the all star games, and puts you in the HoF. The fact that the Warriors sucked didn't help Parish in that aspect when he was there. Similar to Tyson Chandler with the Mavs in 11, all of a sudden he was making all defensive teams and getting DPoY mentions. Did Dirk make him a better defensive player? No, the Cats just didn't utilize Chandler correctly, he was the same player on the Mavs as he was on the Cats.


Celtics were expected to sweep the Rockets? Yea maybe (because of Larry), they still won though. Guess they were also expected to improve from 29W to 61W with Bird and the "same" players then win in the next year, expected to get past established powerhouse 76ers, come back from a 3-1 deficit, guess Larry was expected to outplay the MVP... Bird "made" people expect that and even when it wasn't expected he turned it around, that's what was so great about him.
You say he played below his standards in the 1981 Finals because that's how amazing Bird was.. Yea he was struggling with his shot but he still had some great performances and got the job done, was the 3rd best scorer in the series, almost outrebounded Moses, by far the best playmaker, played some great defense, got most attention too and got Cornbread some really easy looks, in the decisive game 6 he put up 27/13/5 on 11/20 and 4/5, clutch af in the 4th.. Simply put he got the job done, led them there, biggest factor in their win.. Go look at Lebron's first Finals, better yet go look at Lebron's 2011 Finals with much more help than Bird.. shit Larry had a better Finals series (winning also counts) in his sophomore season with less help and we're discussion this?? :oldlol: Also watch the games and don't just look at stats, Legend didn't statpad his way through like Lebron, he did his job then just "stepped back" when the win was assured or just moved to the next one when loss was inevitable.

Well yeah, they swept the Rockets the year before, and they were expected to sweep them in 81 with the addition of Parish (who did a fine job on Moses). It should've been a sweep had Larry played to his usual standards. But like I said, props to him contributing in other aspects when his shot was not falling. I do think he deserved FMVP over Maxwell


Yea he played below his standards in 1982 but everything he did before and after "cleans" that up, easily. Know why they got swept in 1983 (Bird didn't play one game so he technically didn't)? Because Bird was injured, just for you to see how important he was lol.

Well there you go, LeBron played shitty in 11 and he cleaned it up in 12, just like Bird did.


Again everyone has bad games, Bird's best stuff "cleans" that up though, easily.
You keep saying Bird had the better teammates, and I'll say it again, Bird led them from 2nd worst record to best and the ECF with the same roster (no McHale or Parish for that matter), and by his sophomore season he was leading them to titles with the main addition of Parish (guess he's the big factor here :rolleyes:).. when they played below their standards (like in 1984), Bird pulled them through and led them to many wins, show me the other way around for his teammates though.... You talk about help, what about 2011? Lebron had all the help, with top established players in the league (one top3/5), and Wade more than stepped up, please tell me what happened? And you're gonna continue to talk that ignorant shit? Gimme a break :lol

Again you talk about 2011, did LeBron's performance in 2012 not clean up whatever he did (or didn't do in that matter) in 2011? What about in 2013 when Bosh and Wade played way below their standards and LeBron carried them throughout? Does that not "cleanup" whatever mess he made in 11?


Yea they lost in 1985, wanna know why? Because Bird had an injured elbow and an injured hand... Had he been healthy they most likely would've won, like proven in 1984.. But you're the one saying that Bird didn't need to play well in order for them to win, then basically going against yourself :facepalm Oh and Bird didn't play in a weak-ass conference, but I guess he wasn't the best player on the team at times :oldlol: GTFOH, Bird was always the one with more impact, don't kid yourself, he was an all-around beast, he was always their leader, best and most impactful player.

Could've, would've, should've. All I got from this paragraph is that Bird is injure prone. Mind you, durability is one of the ways we access a player, there is a reason why Bill Walton isn't top 10 all time. All I'm saying is Bird had someone like McHale that could carry the team when his shot isn't falling, which is absolutely true. LeBron had no one who could do that outside of 2011-2013, in which he won two chips in a row.

I mean, who the hell stepped up on the Cavs when the Spurs defense focused on LeBron? That 1980 Celtics roster is nowhere bad as you make it sound. Tiny, Cowens, Maxwell were very serviceable players, better than what LeBron had in Cleveland anyways.


What about 1987 when he destroyed the Pistons and made some really clutch plays, with a team that had literally no bench and everybody just breaking down? Keep talking about 1988 though, keep talking about a series just immediately before Bird had to get back surgery and surgery on both heels.. Lebron wouldn't even be playing, shit :oldlol:

Okay, so Bird got injured again in 88. That's the 3rd time in 8 years.


What happened when he got to Miami? Well, he didn't get the job done in the Finals, with teammates stepping up and against a worse team... sweeping that under the rug huh? :roll:

What happened after that? Two straight rings was it? Not to mention 2013 when Bosh and Wade played WAY below their standards in the playoffs.


Most of those players you've mentioned you only know their name because of Larry, they were major many times but mostly he was the one stepping up for them not the other way around, and not one of them was an established top player in the league on the same level as Wade or Bosh relatively to the rest of the competition, shit McHale was drafted and only hitting his prime around 1985. Bird was injured in 1989, and they dropped like 15W, getting swept in the 1st round, and with Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. where were those dudes stepping up and winning? Lol.

Bird didn't teach Parish how to play defense, Bird didn't teach McHale post moves. So what if they weren't established players like Wade or Bosh? Celtics built through drafting and the Heat built through FA, how is this relevant? McHale turned out to be a better player than Bosh, and Bird had little to do with that, unless you're suggesting he taught McHale his post moves. Do you think Bosh would have a chance at the HoF if not for LeBron? Do you think Wade would have 3 rings right now with the chance at his 4th ring this year if not for LeBron?



When Lebron left the Cavs the team just broke apart, not denying Lebron's impact but team wasn't really the same (as before, excluding Lebron of). But yea he had tremendous impact of, not denying that.

I might be an old-timer to you who are probably a teen. And yes I'd argue that the 80s are the GOAT era. I said it isn't close? Where? I'd even say peak/prime Bird has the EDGE over Lebron, that means it's pretty darn close, extremely close.


Well, we're on the same page then. I do think Bird is a little ahead of LeBron in terms of peak play. But their overall careers? I would say LeBron has a good case for being the GOAT SF.

[bizil]

I think the results would be pretty much the same. I put Bron and Bird on the same level frankly. Bron was a much better one on one defender than Bird. While Bird was a more complete scorer and better rebounder. Passing to me was even. Scoring by the numbers is a wash.

[Bodhi]

I think the results would be pretty much the same. I put Bron and Bird on the same level frankly. Bron was a much better one on one defender than Bird. While Bird was a more complete scorer and better rebounder. Passing to me was even. Scoring by the numbers is a wash.
Bird was a flat out better passer, he just played a less ball dominant role than LeBron in Cleveland

If Mo Williams had been Larry Bird's pg, you would have seen different assist numbers

[Wally450]

bird would'nt win anything. that is clear. bird always had good teams around him, not like lebron at the cavs, were his secon best player was some1 called "mo".

I actually agree with is as a Boston fan. Bird was dirty, but I don't think even he could bring that Cleveland team to a chip.

[mr4speed]

-In 1980, Celtics went from 29W-53L (2nd worst record) to 61W-21L (best record) and the ECF, when Bird got there, with pretty much the same roster. And no tanking (teams didn't even do it to today's level) because Larry was already drafted.. Attendances at an all-time low, internal problems, management problems, Red almost leaving, also..
He was ROY, all-nba 1st, 4th in MVP voting, all-star, 1st in DWS, 6th in DRtg... Just so you understand his impact. No Parish or McHale for that matter lmao.

-In 1981, Cowens was gone and they added Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as much at all with the Warriors, and Bird led them to a championship while outplaying MVP Julius Erving coming back from a 3-1 deficit in the "real" Finals, the ECF... Then, only player to average 15+/7+/7+ in a Finals series and frankly should've been named FMVP.

-In the 1984 Playoffs, most of Bird's teammates were playing below their (RS) standards while he was tearing shit up and leading them to a title... Led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT% (!!!!), just for you to see what he was doing and how his teammates were coming up short... In the Finals against the Lakers with Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Cooper, Rambis or Scott, it was more of the same.

.............

Just some examples but people rather look at names (plenty that Bird "made) and neglect all of the rest.. Also, the fact that he was playing in arguably the GOAT decade in the GOAT conference.

--> If Lebron got to the Finals (in the weak-ass East lol), least Bird would've done would be not to get swept by the Spurs... And he'd sure as hell would be winning in 2011. Also, given the superstar competition, he'd be racking up them MVPs.

Silly ass kids that never saw much from Bird apart from 3 min highlight vids, ignorant children that know nothing and don't even know what he was capable of, what he was doing, his crazy impact... Then dropping some ignorant phrases and acting like they know anything, like those are facts or something :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
If you're gonna make this type of threads at least stop making stupid-ass comments based off of nothing.

Well said. FYI Bird in the 81 finals was 15.3 pts per game, 15.3 rebounds per game and 7.0 assists per game and put the game away (game 6) in 4th quarter. Maxwell in 81 finals was 17.7 pts per game, 9.5 rebounds per game and 2.8 assists per game. Bird was robbed of FMVP. Maxwell was more liked by the press, seen as a free spirit and more colorful. Bird was not a good interview, didn't like or trust the press. I remember the identical 15.3 number and you can bet Bird was feeding Maxwell when he was in the post.