Peak Dwight Howard or Peak Moses Malone

[Rocketswin2013]

Dwight Howard pre-injury, and Malone while in his prime during the early 80's (stretches of their best years)
Regular Season:

http://i59.tinypic.com/30cymn7.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/if5o3d.jpg

I put Per 36 because Moses played way more minutes and at a much faster pace than Dwight. So offensively, it's close impact wise.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2vl013a.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/szuasp.jpg

Playoffs:

http://i61.tinypic.com/20u3amf.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/2mg8dwy.jpg

http://i59.tinypic.com/zixgsp.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/1jotjb.jpg

Dwight was miles a better defender while Moses was only a slighty better offensive player.

I honestly give Dwight the edge considering everything. Moses was on some pretty stacked teams with great defenders Bobby Jones and Mo Cheeks and DR.J as a great #2 option. No to mention Andrew Toney who was an all-star on that title team.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Moses by a mile

And since when did playing more minutes become a negative :lol

Maybe if Dwight didnt constantly pick up dumb fouls he would play longer.


Moses 83 playoffs: 25/16/2/2 and a FMVP

26/18/2/2/2 in the finals against KAJ & Magics lakers

[Xsatyr]

You're going to get ridiculed for using per 36 as well you should. The fact that Moses played more minutes and was effective says a lot about him and his impact. The answer is Malone.

[KG215]

Is this even debatable?

[dr.hee]

:coleman: Not really. They just played a more reckless brand back then.


No way they do that now. And realistcally everybody played tons of minutes so his impact is still relative to Dwight because nobody plays over 36 minutes these days.

:roll:

Ever heard of a thing called "playoffs"?

[imdaman99]

Never watched Moses play but I have heard he was no good at defense.

Not a Dwight fan, but I'll go with him.

[Demitri98]

..

[Dro]

Yet to see somebody explain why Moses was better at basketball. I'd love to see it.
Like you would even listen?:lol

It doesn't need to be explained...If you have a brain, you know Moses was better....:confusedshrug:

[dankok8]

In the 5-year period from '79 to '83, an average team was grabbing 45.2, 44.9, 43.5, 43.5, and 44.5 rebounds per game, respectively. That's virtually identical to today. The pace inflation argument is unfounded.

The gap in rebounding isn't big but Moses was a better offensive rebounder. Malone had way superior footwork in the post, a very reliable hook shot, and had good range. Moses could make 10-12 foot jumpers and shot free throws at close to 80%. And he played with such zeal and determination that he couldn't be beat or taken out of his game. He wasn't smiling and goofing around like Howard. Moses was just unstoppable, a relentless machine of destruction that was dominating HOF centers like aging Kareem, Gilmore etc. like it was nothing.

Not even close.

[SHAQisGOAT]

:biggums: :biggums:

What's with these stupid-ass threads, lately??? :facepalm :facepalm Just GTFOH with that ignorant stuff, son.

Moses was winning MVPs (3 of them) with Kareem, Bird, Erving and Magic in the league, he was taking teams to the Finals that had no business being there (you know nothing about that though :rolleyes:), in 1983 finally paired up with some great teammates he/they just destroyed the whole league, dude was outplaying Kareem and such, playing in great bigmen era and doing those sorts of things.... Only thing going against him is that he stopped trying/caring like before, after 1983, and while really good still, was never the same again, declining way too soon. Great longevity still though.

Only thing that prime Dwight has better is defense and, don't kid yourself, peak Moses could play pretty good D, he didn't make all-defensive 1st while 2nd in DWS and 3rd in DRtg for nothing, he could block some shots, create some to's, play m2m, physical as hell... Rebounding and passing is close yea but Moses was just considerably a better scorer and easily more versatile, not even close in that department, plus dude was more relentless, got the job done way more times, clutcher and just a better player.
.....
You don't even know what you're talking about yet you go ahead and say ignorant things like "I honestly give Dwight the edge" or "Dwight was miles a better defender while Moses was only a slighty better offensive player" :roll: Bringing up per36 and whatnot :oldlol: Just stop it :facepalm

[SHAQisGOAT]

In the 5-year period from '79 to '83, an average team was grabbing 45.2, 44.9, 43.5, 43.5, and 44.5 rebounds per game, respectively. That's virtually identical to today. The pace inflation argument is unfounded.

The gap in rebounding isn't big but Moses was a better offensive rebounder. Malone had way superior footwork in the post, a very reliable hook shot, and had good range. Moses could make 10-12 foot jumpers and shot free throws at close to 80%. And he played with such zeal and determination that he couldn't be beat or taken out of his game. He wasn't smiling and goofing around like Howard. Moses was just unstoppable, a relentless machine of destruction that was dominating HOF centers like aging Kareem, Gilmore etc. like it was nothing.

Not even close.

:applause:

[BlackVVaves]

We get you are a Dwight fan now that he's employed by your favorite team OP, but are you ****ing serious right now??????? :biggums:

[SHAQisGOAT]

If I listed all the things Chandler Parsons could do, it would sound like he's a 20+ PPG scorer and maybe even a 25-5-5 guy.

What you just did is fade the argument into a, "I'll take his game over his game" thing. That's not what this is, this is who was better on both ends and more productive. Moses may have been able to attack a team in more ways than Dwight, but his production was marginally better at best offensively.


On the other hand, Dwight was doing more with less, while Moses did good with one title, it came while he was on some incredible teams. So I'm not even that impressed with that.

Stop embarrassing yourself, child :facepalm Moses played in great bigmen era and was winning MVPs (3 while Dwight doesn't even have one lmfao) with Kareem, Bird, Erving or Magic in the league, he was outplaying centers that would humilitate Dwight... --> In 1981 he took the Rockets to the Finals when they had no business being there, his best teammates were old Calvin Murphy who got injured in the post-season, Robert Reid, Billy Paultz and Mike Dunleavy... Yet you wanna talk about doing more with less, you don't even what you're talking about :rolleyes: In 1983 with the proper help, he did more than he had to really, just steamrolled through the whole league (better league). Dwight has gotten more help for himself throughout the years, what can he show for? :oldlol:
Yet you wanna talk about per36 or pace, which is different by like 10%, not even close to considerable, shit Moses would've been putting up better stats today against this bigmen :lol Keep dropping ignorant stuff and embarrassing yourself though :facepalm Trolling-ass, ignorant-ass, dumb kids :facepalm

[BlackVVaves]

Nothing you said can be backed up. You're easily the most nostalgic ISH poster I've ever seen. Makes pretty much everything you say on this topic invalid.

Howard got robbed of MVP in 2011 and was never had a truly great cast like Malone.

Malone is BARELY better offensively all things considered. Howard is BY FAR better defensively in his peak.

Cheeks, and Bobby Jones will songlehandedly make a team top half in DRTG in any era. Malone was no question one of the weaker defensive links on his own team. And that was for ONE YEAR he was even adequate defensively.

All other years he was piss poor.

Find us one reputable, non-biased source from 2011 that cited Dwight had a better case for MVP than Rose or Bron.

For someone to get robbed, there must have been exorbitant noise highlighting how much better Dwight was largely considered than Rose or Bron. Find that source.

Unless...your opinion is utterly subjective and just jargon released from numerous posters you've seen here saying Dwight was the "true MVP" in 2011. Which I'm betting is the case.

If Bron got MVP this year, THAT would be robbery. KD would have been robbed. Dwight wasn't robbed. He was top 3 in 2011, and had a legit case for MVP. But he wasn't the unanimous best player in the league in 2011. Stop with the revisionist nonsense, I see that rhetoric about 2011 all the time.

[SCdac]

In the 5-year period from '79 to '83, an average team was grabbing 45.2, 44.9, 43.5, 43.5, and 44.5 rebounds per game, respectively. That's virtually identical to today. The pace inflation argument is unfounded.

The gap in rebounding isn't big but Moses was a better offensive rebounder. Malone had way superior footwork in the post, a very reliable hook shot, and had good range. Moses could make 10-12 foot jumpers and shot free throws at close to 80%. And he played with such zeal and determination that he couldn't be beat or taken out of his game. He wasn't smiling and goofing around like Howard. Moses was just unstoppable, a relentless machine of destruction that was dominating HOF centers like aging Kareem, Gilmore etc. like it was nothing.

Not even close.

This.

What's with Houston homers becoming so intoxicated with raw stats? :facepalm

Making the rest of Rockets fans on ISH look bad, but there's some good posters from there.

Moses was a much better player and offensive player. He'd be the best big man in today's game.

[Deuce Bigalow]

In the playoffs, Dwert or Wilt doe?

Wilt: 47.2 mpg, 22.5 ppg, 52.4 TS%, 21.9 TRB%*, 12.9 AST%
Dwert: 38.8 mpg, 20.5 ppg, 61.4 TS%, 22.0 TRB%, 6.8 AST%

Scoring Per 36
Wilt: 17.2 ppg
Dwert: 18.7 ppg

*According to this http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305971

[oarabbus]

In the playoffs, Dwert or Wilt doe?

Wilt: 47.2 mpg, 22.5 ppg, 52.4 TS%, 21.9 TRB%*, 12.9 AST%
Dwert: 38.8 mpg, 20.5 ppg, 61.4 TS%, 22.0 TRB%, 6.8 AST%

Scoring Per 36
Wilt: 17.2 ppg
Dwert: 18.7 ppg

*According to this http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305971


Lol wilt.

At least he wasn't in foul trouble doe.

[dankok8]

If I listed all the things Chandler Parsons could do, it would sound like he's a 20+ PPG scorer and maybe even a 25-5-5 guy.

What you just did is fade the argument into a, "I'll take his game over his game" thing. That's not what this is, this is who was better on both ends and more productive. Moses may have been able to attack a team in more ways than Dwight, but his production was marginally better at best offensively.

On the other hand, Dwight was doing more with less, while Moses did good with one title, it came while he was on some incredible teams. So I'm not even that impressed with that.

Moses is easily the more productive player. He had seasons of 25/17, 26/15, 28/15, 31/15, and 25/15 all at 57-60 %TS all against a tough cast of opposing centers... Kareem, Sikma, Parish, Gilmore. He was a very good defender. He won 3 MVP's in an era that featured Kareem, Magic, Bird, Erving, and Gervin all in their primes. And his Houston teams were nowhere near good. Once he got to Philly he romped to a title and anchored one of the most dominant teams ever.

[ArbitraryWater]

The Per 36 ruined any kind of logical discussion we could have about this....


and dankok, Moses a very good defender? Not sure.. I once asked this question, the responses were around 'good at his peak', and otherwise meh...

[Rocketswin2013]

The Per 36 ruined any kind of logical discussion we could have about this....


and dankok, Moses a very good defender? Not sure.. I once asked this question, the responses were around 'good at his peak', and otherwise meh...
If I don't bring up per 36, they'll just flaunt raw volume stats in an era where players played alot more and had alot more posessions.


To me, the advanced stats are most telling. And it either means Malone was overrated, or people need to give Dwight some respect and he's underrated.


Obviously though, people have an extremely hard time coping with either.

[KevinNYC]

If I don't bring up per 36, they'll just flaunt raw volume stats in an era where players played alot more and had alot more posessions.


To me, the advanced stats are most telling. And it either means Malone was overrated, or people need to give Dwight some respect and he's underrated.


Obviously though, people have an extremely hard time coping with either.

Moses's peak is probably top 8 in league history.

[KevinNYC]

Moses was winning MVPs (3 of them) with Kareem, Bird, Erving and Magic in the league, he was taking teams to the Finals that had no business being there (you know nothing about that though :rolleyes:), in 1983 finally paired up with some great teammates he/they just destroyed the whole league, dude was outplaying Kareem and such, playing in great bigmen era and doing those sorts of things....

Dude won 3 MVPS and was the best player on a team that went 12-1 in the playoffs, sweeping a Kareem/Magic Laker team.

One of his MVPs was before Bird and Magic entered the NBA however.
1978-79 NBA MVP
1981-82 NBA MVP
1982-83 NBA MVP
1982-83 NBA Finals MVP

He's massively underrated because he's not a highlight film player, he's was just a hustle-work-hustle-work last man standing player.

[Odinn]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272312

It is not even up to debate.

Let me know when Dwight wins MVPs like Moses did, or carries mediocre cast to the finals while scoring 31.3 ppg against an all-time great like KAJ / like Moses did in 1981, or scores bunch points to make it to the playoffs like Moses did in 1982, or dominates the entire playoffs like Moses did in 1983.

[VIntageNOvel]

bump

[Stringer Bell]

Mo, Mo, Mo

[Magic 32]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PP4RT-vv-o&t=0m8s

[NBAGOAT]

this is Moses, he's definitely worse than Dwight on defense but just too good on offense. His peak is 31/15 58ts%. Also one of Dwight's advantages over other centers is his rebounding but it's not there vs Dwight and Moses has an obvious edge offensive rebounding at least.. Moses has a good case over someone like peak Ewing too who most people have clearly over Dwight. Dwight's always going get that Alonzo comparison level of play wise.

[Round Mound]

Moses get real...:confusedshrug:

[Jasper]

Moses by a mile

And since when did playing more minutes become a negative :lol

Maybe if Dwight didnt constantly pick up dumb fouls he would play longer.


Moses 83 playoffs: 25/16/2/2 and a FMVP

26/18/2/2/2 in the finals against KAJ & Magics lakers
Moses Malone had the work ethic before Jordan

Moses busted his balls for everyone

[LAZERUSS]

Moses had about a five year run in which he was the most dominant player in the league (78-79 thru '82-83.) And he just crushed his opposing centers in that span, including Kareem.

BTW, for those that use post-season W-L records in their GOAT arguments...Moses went 6-1 against KAJ, including beating him with a 40-42 team, and then sweeping him in the Finals.

Dwight has never come close to the dominance of a prime Moses.

[HurricaneKid]

Too many damn kids in here.

I tend to think Dwight's career has been woefully underrated given the hatred he gets. But he is no Moses. Not even close.

Moses won 3 MVPs, was the leader of the fo-fo-fo 82-83 Sixers who were one of the best teams ever. He won MVP and FMVP (when they SWEPT the Magic/Kareem Lakers) for an all time team.

Barely better offensively? Moses scored more points than Shaq. He is top 7/8 (depending if you allow for ABA points) all time.

GTFO with this question. And GTFO to all the people spewing the wrong answer.

[West-Side]

Howard is the better defender. Moses is way better at basically everything else.
This is actually disrespectful ass **** towards a player who is just on the cusp of being one of the ten best players ever.

Moses has the edge in rebounding and playmaking. He is way less foul prone but most importantly, he was a far better scorer and had WAY more ways to score.

[Micku]

Based upon feats and skills, you have to give the edge to Moses Malone because he faced up against Kareem and he is more successful in his era. Moses had better footwork and offensive skills. Moses Malone was also more versatile. With this, he had the ability to work with different teams.

Peak Dwight was no slouch, but he always had trouble with fouls. You could actually give him the ball in the post and let him work, but not too much. After his injury, he never been the same.

Moses Malone is better tho due to his versatility and feats imo.

[SexSymbol]

Moses Malone has a good case for being top 10.
Dwight doesn't have a case for top 50.

now if we're judging peaks.
Moses has a case for top 15-20 peak
Dwight doesn't have a case for top 50.

See how it goes?