Who is held to the third highest standard behind Durant and LeBron?

[Budadiiii]

Is it Chris Paul? Paul George? Dwight? Harden? Tim Duncan?

I mean, who would take more heat for losing in the first round? Dwight/Harden already did and no one really cares. So I question who the third best player is... or who the people care about most because best player wouldn't be as accurate I guess. Not everyone has the same supporting cast and guys like Melo and Love don't even have a chance to be in this conversation because of that. And we all know D-Rose and Kobe are out so the league may be lacking those other guys who would be held to a different standard and kinda put under the microscope. I feel like Durant/LeBron are the only ones this year. Everyone has a similar supporting cast too...

Everybody talks about Griffin having a break out year but he ever gets held to any sort of standard and he's rarely looked at as being 'the man'... Chris Paul is still in that position. People won't be saying Blake failed, they'll be saying Paul did.

And Aldridge is never really talked about anyway even though less than a week ago people were saying he was the best PF in the game and > Griffin.

Dirk has done enough I guess to not getting any attention drawn to him in that regard, or people just write him off because they think his supporting cast stinks, which in comparison to everyone else I mentioned... it kinda does.


So who really is the third guy behind Durant and LeBron?

[PhutureDynasty]

I'd say Melo even though he didn't make the playoffs at all this year. Especially since he plays in the huge market NYC.

[tpols]

its a weak era for superstardom.. got some great well rounded teams though

[Cocaine80s]

tony allen

[Budadiiii]

I'd say Melo even though he didn't make the playoffs at all this year. Especially since he plays in the huge market NYC.
I probably agree with this.

If Carmelo goes to Chicago, I see him being that third guy and he'd no longer have an excuse. Hell, he'd be the favorite.

[Im Still Ballin]

It goes
1. Lebron
2. KD
3. CP3
4. Melo

[Budadiiii]

It goes
1. Lebron
2. KD
3. CP3
4. Melo
Something like that.

Duncan at 5?

[bdreason]

Cp3.

[Im Still Ballin]

yeah probably Duncan or even Howard?

[Carter_17]

Monta Ellis obviously

[ArbitraryWater]

Is it Chris Paul? Paul George? Dwight? Harden? Tim Duncan?

I mean, who would take more heat for losing in the first round? Dwight/Harden already did and no one really cares. So I question who the third best player is... or who the people care about most because best player wouldn't be as accurate I guess. Not everyone has the same supporting cast and guys like Melo and Love don't even have a chance to be in this conversation because of that. And we all know D-Rose and Kobe are out so the league may be lacking those other guys who would be held to a different standard and kinda put under the microscope. I feel like Durant/LeBron are the only ones this year. Everyone has a similar supporting cast too...

Everybody talks about Griffin having a break out year but he ever gets held to any sort of standard and he's rarely looked at as being 'the man'... Chris Paul is still in that position. People won't be saying Blake failed, they'll be saying Paul did.

And Aldridge is never really talked about anyway even though less than a week ago people were saying he was the best PF in the game and > Griffin.

Dirk has done enough I guess to not getting any attention drawn to him in that regard, or people just write him off because they think his supporting cast stinks, which in comparison to everyone else I mentioned... it kinda does.


So who really is the third guy behind Durant and LeBron?

Is this you trolling aside, for the first time being honest? :lol

I mean, you even admitted Dirk has the weakest support in contrast to all the others... Harden/Howard, Paul/Griffin, Aldridge/Lillard, etc.

[DMAVS41]

I have no idea, but it seems like nobody is really expected to do much outside of KD and Lebron.

They might be the only 2 superstars in the game now.

People expect an awful lot out of Kobe and Dirk still....

Put it this way...if Kobe was on the Rockets instead of Harden he'd be held to a higher standards

And if Dirk had a team as loaded as the Clippers instead of Paul/Griffin...he'd be held to a higher standard.

So I'd probably say Kobe third and Dirk 4th right now...

Maybe Melo above both of them if he had a loaded team...not sure what people actually think about Melo.

[Duggrr]

CP3 and Melo because of the markets they play in.

[Carter_17]

Is this you trolling aside, for the first time being honest? :lol

I mean, you even admitted Dirk has the weakest support in contrast to all the others... Harden/Howard, Paul/Griffin, Aldridge/Lillard, etc.

:biggums: :biggums:

[DMAVS41]

:biggums: :biggums:

The Rockets, Clippers, Warriors, and Blazers all have objectively more talented rosters. It's not even debatable...

[houston]

CP3 and Melo because of the markets they play in.


yup indeed

[215Philly]

Kobe still :hammerhead:

[kkb_12]

The Rockets, Clippers, Warriors, and Blazers all have objectively more talented rosters. It's not even debatable...

Key Dallas players might be past their primes, and might not be contenders for that reason only, but talent wise, they are top 5 team...

[DMAVS41]

Key Dallas players might be past their primes, and might not be contenders for that reason only, but talent wise, they are top 5 team...

Just no...

What are you talking about? Spurs, Clippers, Warriors, Rockets, Thunder, Blazers, and Heat absolutely have more talented rosters.

That is 7 for sure.

I'd also say the Grizzlies have a more talented roster as well. Could definitely argue that the Timberwolves and Wizards have as much or more.

****ing top 5 roster in the league...my ass. The Mavs over-achieved this year in the regular season and playoffs...they are not a top 5 roster.

But this does make my point that Dirk/Kobe still have extremely high expectations despite their age.

[tpols]

Just no...

What are you talking about? Spurs, Clippers, Warriors, Rockets, Thunder, Blazers, and Heat absolutely have more talented rosters.

That is 7 for sure.

I'd also say the Grizzlies have a more talented roster as well. Could definitely argue that the Timberwolves and Wizards have as much or more.

****ing top 5 roster in the league...my ass. The Mavs over-achieved this year in the regular season and playoffs...they are not a top 5 roster.

Dirks averaging 20/9 in the playoffs and his team is taking the 1 seed to a game 7... Duncan's been just as impactful as Dirk thus far yet the score is tied. That wouldnt be possible if mavs supporting cast was playing that much worse.

This is another issue of help playing above expectations.. on paper the mavs aint shit but with carlisle at the helm, monta balling out, blair coming to life down low, and everything running smoothly passing and ball movement wise, the mavs are a great overall team and are giving dirk just as much help as anybody.. it probably wont last though but who knows

[inclinerator]

cp3

[kkb_12]

Just no...

What are you talking about? Spurs, Clippers, Warriors, Rockets, Thunder, Blazers, and Heat absolutely have more talented rosters.

That is 7 for sure.

I'd also say the Grizzlies have a more talented roster as well. Could definitely argue that the Timberwolves and Wizards have as much or more.

****ing top 5 roster in the league...my ass. The Mavs over-achieved this year in the regular season and playoffs...they are not a top 5 roster.

As I said - talent wise they are top 5, but overall roster is around 10th place in the league due to the fact that they cannot keep up with younger teams.... It is roster with 3 hall of famers: Nowitzki, Carter and Calderon as international player.

[DMAVS41]

Dirks averaging 20/9 in the playoffs and his team is taking the 1 seed to a game 7... Duncan's been just as impactful as Dirk thus far yet the score is tied. That wouldnt be possible if mavs supporting cast was playing that much worse.

This is another issue of help playing above expectations.. on paper the mavs aint shit but with carlisle at the helm, monta balling out, blair coming to life down low, and everything running smoothly passing and ball movement wise, the mavs are a great overall team and are giving dirk just as much help as anybody.. it probably wont last though but who knows

That has nothing to do with the talent level on the team.

Are you telling me you think the Mavs have a top 5 roster in the league?

I mean...for sure if it was prime Dirk..or even the Dirk of the last 2 games, but that he can't do it night in night out anymore. That is what makes him a lesser player...the 26/12/3 games on 50% shooting just come less frequently. So sure...if you hold Dirk to a prime superstar level standards...I could see this team being a top 5 roster in the league. Unfortunately that isn't the Dirk we run out there every night...if it was, we would have been the 2 seed not the 8th seed.

And man...I don't know about Duncan. He's an afterthought on offense and while he's played some good defense at the rim...Splitter has easily been their highest impact defender.

Really hard to compare the two...that isn't to say Duncan has been worse, but it's just hard to compare two guys playing completely different roles.

And it's not just Dirk's 18/8 a game or whatever he's at...it's what he does to a defense;

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/steve-nash-george-karl-and-others-on-dirk-nowitzki-and-the-unguardable-play/

That is a really good in depth article about what just having Dirk on the floor does to the opposing team. Now, unfortunately his impact is not what it once was and he's far easier to stop in some of those situations than he used to be, but the same basic problem exists and when you surround him with decent offensive players you are going to get pretty good results consistently.

I agree Ellis is playing well overall, but I don't know about balling out. He's been the 2nd thought of the Spurs and he's shooting alright across the board, but he's not creating many scoring plays for teammates either. His assists are down 3 per game so far in this series. But he is playing great at the end of games and I'd say he's been slightly our best player so far in this series because of that.

If anyone is "balling out" on our team it's Carter. He's been amazing.

Forget even looking at it from the Dirk perspective. From any perspective I don't see this Mavs team as a top 5 roster in the league. We have a terrible defensive backcourt and front court. Dirk struggles at times hugely on the pick and roll...and his backup (Wright) is even worse. Dalembert can't do anything on offense...and Blair is basically playing a midget at center.

Ugh...I don't know man...top 5 roster in the league that plays 22nd best defense in the league and is weak on the ball and in rim protection. Usually that is just not good enough regardless of how good the offense is.

I just don't think a top 5 roster is -1000 going into their first round series...against anyone.

And it's not about Dirk. I actually think he's played poorly overall...certainly until the last 2 games in my opinion. It's about the team...it's a team missing key pieces and it's honestly smoke and mirrors getting it done at this point. Spurs just haven't been able to get going.

I think these things are too up and down. If the Mavs come out and get murked tomorrow everyone will say...oh yea, but look at their roster...its' flawed. Conversely if they win...it will be...oh yea...they are a great team.

Just like the WB/Durant stuff...one minute they have a flawed roster and can't win...next thing you know they are blowing out a quality Memphis team on the road without even playing all that great in an elimination game.

If anyone deserves the most credit for what the Mavs have done so far it's Carlisle...he's easily been our most valuable asset in this series...like, it's not close.

[DMAVS41]

As I said - talent wise they are top 5, but overall roster is around 10th place in the league due to the fact that they cannot keep up with younger teams.... It is roster with 3 hall of famers: Nowitzki, Carter and Calderon as international player.

I don't know what that means...but sure

[russwest0]

a healthy kobe. no question.

[sd3035]

I'd say Melo even though he didn't make the playoffs at all this year. Especially since he plays in the huge market NYC.

nobody cares about melo

[TheMagicMan]

This is who 'Bran teamed up with to win in a historically weak Eastern Conference:

http://media.nj.com/nets_impact/photo/lebron-james-chris-bosh-dwyane-wade-introduced-in-miami-7821fbe30df9302c_large.jpg

You think he gives a **** about high standards?

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Spurs are better than they were last year and Mavs are doing as well as the Heat did in the finals vs. them (7 games).

Championship or bust for Dirk.

[AintNoSunshine]

Choke year after year, such high standard for the servant:oldlol:

[LoneyROY7]

Probably CP3 and Melo right now. BG is just coming up, but he will be the 3rd next season.

[SillyRabbit]

The drop-off after LeBron and Durant is huge.

CP3, Melo, or whoever else you wanna put at 3rd doesn't get held to nearly the standard that LeBron or Durant do.

[VengefulAngel]

The drop-off after LeBron and Durant is huge.

CP3, Melo, or whoever else you wanna put at 3rd doesn't get held to nearly the standard that LeBron or Durant do.

That's due to the fact no other team is expected win like OKC and Miami. The Spurs collectively have achieved so much that they no longer get held to the same standard.

[BoutPractice]

I'd say CP3 and Dwight. CP3 in particular gets a ton of hate based on the idea that he should be leading his team deeper in the playoffs. Also, they've been established superstars for quite a while now, but are still in their prime, so the pressure is bigger.

[dubeta]

Definitely not Kobe, he's choked his last 3 playoff series (2010 6-24, 2011 choke against dallas, 2012 choked last min of every game), and he has missed the last 2 playoffs yet his stans still worship him like a god. :roll:

[Hoopz2332]

1. LBJ










2. Durant

3. Cp3
4. Melo

[Real14]

Durant. Melo should be number 1 next year.

[ArbitraryWater]

Key Dallas players might be past their primes, and might not be contenders for that reason only, but talent wise, they are top 5 team...

Is this really the 2nd alt popping up for this topic? Just show your face goddammit

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Durant isn't held to much of a standard. He could have lost in the 1st round and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Inferior players come with inferior expectations.

[VengefulAngel]

Durant isn't held to much of a standard. He could have lost in the 1st round and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Inferior players come with inferior expectations.

He would of had some critics and criticism. But that is a credit to how great Lebron actually is.

[Pointguard]

Lebron is held to a different standard than Durant is. And that's with Ibaka and Westbrook playing much better ball than Bosh and Wade. There was even backlash for Durant being criticized when they were on the brink.

CP3 would have been if his owner wasn't part crazy.

Next season, if Durant doesn't win it all this year, Dwight Howard will most likely take the 2 spot away from him and challenge Lebron as best player, despite looking like a better player but not knowing how to handle the winning nuances of the game.

Standard is based on players being in their prime and on a solid team. Except if your name is Deron Williams, who rarely plays hard.

[Hoopz2332]

Durant isn't held to much of a standard. He could have lost in the 1st round and it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Inferior players come with inferior expectations.



He would of had some critics and criticism. But that is a credit to how great Lebron actually is.

:applause:

[pastis]

wow, now on ish mavs have stacked and talented team:lol :lol

nobody wanted, carter, marion, ellis, blair, we also have dalambert, crowder, harris:lol :lol :lol :lol

i would change immediatly whole mavs roster (except dirk) for blazers roster (without lma), whole clippers roster (without griffin), whole okc roster (without kd), whole spurs roster (without dunca) etc. pp etc. pp etc. pp

[Johnni Gade]

What about Aldridge?