Mavs fans, still think Cuban dismantling the championship team was a good idea?

[TheMagicMan]

Only 3 playoff wins since 2011 :confusedshrug:

[SilkkTheShocker]

there was absolutely no way that team was repeating.

[Smook A.]

Mark Cuban was breaking up the team because he wanted to get cap space for guys like Deron Williams and Dwight Howard.

Didn't work out :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

Not even I thought they would have re-peated...

You think Terry/Kidd/Chandler would make a fkn difference??

It was Dirk going ape shit that's it... that was the difference.

Of course his role players stepped up. Mavs were hot.

[Kidbasketball20]

Dwight should've gone to Dallas. They would've been incredible.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Cuban broke a potential dynasty. Cuban is the reason people will view Dirk as a top 20 player rather than up there with MJ, Russell, Wilt, and KAJ.

[DMAVS41]

Absolutely.

12 we probably win a couple playoff games, but that's about it.

Our team this year would have been much worse and our future would have been much worse.

Have you guys seen what Terry, Barea, Butler, Stevenson, and Chandler have done?

The Mavs were about trying to win the title...that was the only goal. And we weren't doing that with those guys coming back...and now we have 45 million in cap to improve a 50 win team in one of the toughest conferences ever.

It was absolutely the right thing to dismantle. Cuban has made mistakes though. The Odom fiasco, the OJ Mayo/Kaman fiasco, and failing to trade Marion at the deadline were 3 pretty bad mistakes imo....

But he has another chance this summer. He and Nelson better come through...

[creepingdeath]

Not even I thought they would have re-peated...

You think Terry/Kidd/Chandler would make a fkn difference??

It was Dirk going ape shit that's it... that was the difference.

Of course his role players stepped up. Mavs were hot.
Nope. I realize that DMAVS41 disagrees on this topic, but we choked away the first two games against OKC in 2012 and lost the elimination game by 5 points.

There is no way we don't play significantly better with Chandler out there. Yes, defensively Haywood was just as good as Tyson, and our DRTG corroborates that. But on the offensive end, someone who can at least finish easy lay-ups makes all the difference in games that are lost by a combined 9 points.

Anyway, I would have re-signed Chandler and let the rest go their way... I'm pretty sure if the Mavs had given TC the money he wanted, Kidd would have signed, too. Him leaving Dallas was a real surprise since he promised Cuban to come back for another season.

[TheMagicMan]

Nope. I realize that DMAVS41 disagrees on this topic, but we choked away the first two games against OKC in 2012 and lost the elimination game by 5 points.

There is no way we don't play significantly better with Chandler out there. Yes, defensively Haywood was just as good as Tyson, and our DRTG corroborates that. But on the offensive end, someone who can at least finish easy lay-ups makes all the difference in games that are lost by a combined 9 points.

Anyway, I would have re-signed Chandler and let the rest go their way... I'm pretty sure if the Mavs had given TC the money he wanted, Kidd would have signed, too. Him leaving Dallas was a real surprise since he promised Cuban to come back for another season.

This. Should've re-signed Chandler at the very least.

[It's A VC3!!!]

Mavericks are wise to make a run at Lowry. The problem with the Mavs since the break-up was that they only had these one-year contract players. It's hard to win with a roster with uncertainties like that. The Monta and Lowry combination would take a while to work but I can see R. Carlisle making it work. Anyways, the Mavericks had a good season this year. I wonder the contract Dirk will get from the Mavs this summer.

[nathanjizzle]

should have kept chandler

[Lebronxrings]

dirk choked

[DMAVS41]

Nope. I realize that DMAVS41 disagrees on this topic, but we choked away the first two games against OKC in 2012 and lost the elimination game by 5 points.

There is no way we don't play significantly better with Chandler out there. Yes, defensively Haywood was just as good as Tyson, and our DRTG corroborates that. But on the offensive end, someone who can at least finish easy lay-ups makes all the difference in games that are lost by a combined 9 points.

Anyway, I would have re-signed Chandler and let the rest go their way... I'm pretty sure if the Mavs had given TC the money he wanted, Kidd would have signed, too. Him leaving Dallas was a real surprise since he promised Cuban to come back for another season.

No. I agree with this...I just don't think we could have won the title in 12. I of course agree we could have potentially taken the Thunder to the brink or even beat them...as it's a good matchup for us.

I just don't think repeating was possible in 12...obviously I don't know for sure.

And then clearly 13 and 14 would have had no chance and we'd just have a much worse future.

But that is just my opinion, if we actually would have had a legit chance in 12 to repeat...then it would have been worth it. I just really don't think we did...

To me, it was the right plan, it's just that Odom ****ed us. I just saw it as getting like 10% worse in 12 while having a better future...so if Odom didn't kill us...we would have had another 20 to 1 chance to make a run like in 11. Obviously didn't work out...

So I'd say Cuban/Nellie deserve more blame for going after Odom (I agreed with it, but it's their job to know if he's locked in or not) than blowing up the team.

But I actually agree about the Thunder series and wouldn't have "hated' Chandler coming back...but damn...it's just hard to win in this CBA with Chandler making 15 million a year.

[chocolatethunder]

should have kept chandler
Nah. He's not worth the money and there was no way they were going to win it again. It sucks that the team was dismantled but they had no shot of repeating again. They weren't a young team assembled through the draft, they were a team who had a very short window to win and they took advantage of that window. Terry played great that year and never played that well after. Chandler worked for that team but he wasn't worth the money. Although his stats are similar in NY he has hardly had a huge impact on that team. Not getting D will was lucky for them because he's awful. And not getting howard was ok because I dunno if he's the right fit. Having Ellis there is good for them. They could possibpe be better next year with a good offseason. They could be worse too that's for sure. Either way, keeping that team together wouldn't have gotten you another championship.

[Akrazotile]

Cuban broke a potential dynasty. Cuban is the reason people will view Dirk as a top 20 player rather than up there with MJ, Russell, Wilt, and KAJ.



Take notes, all you wannabe-trollers out there. This is how its supposed to look if youre doing it right.

[SuperCereal]

Captain Hindsight strikes again!

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Mavs probably would not have repeated during the lockout year. But Kidd and Terry KNEW it was over after Cuban broke up the team. Both guys did not play with any heart during the 2011-2012 season. Terry was saying that "CTC" crap all year. And Kidd just didn't care. As soon as he got to New York Kidd cared again until his body couldn't do it anymore.

So yes, the Mavs could have had a chance. And I would have rather the Mavs gone out that way than what I witness the last three years.

(And you know what? It didn't even save the Mavs money because doing the rent a player vs signing the contracts... the players they would have signed would have been up this year.....)

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

Oh, and this year for the Mavs was entertaining. I knew they were "lucky" to get in the playoffs and push the Spurs to 7. This season was enjoyable. I am talking about the 2011-2012 and the 2012-2013 seasons that were pretty painful to watch.

[DMAVS41]

Mavs probably would not have repeated during the lockout year. But Kidd and Terry KNEW it was over after Cuban broke up the team. Both guys did not play with any heart during the 2011-2012 season. Terry was saying that "CTC" crap all year. And Kidd just didn't care. As soon as he got to New York Kidd cared again until his body couldn't do it anymore.

So yes, the Mavs could have had a chance. And I would have rather the Mavs gone out that way than what I witness the last three years.

(And you know what? It didn't even save the Mavs money because doing the rent a player vs signing the contracts... the players they would have signed would have been up this year.....)

Well, you are forgetting that we have a much better team this year and far better looking future because we didn't bring them all back. Also, Chandler wouldn't have expired until after next season.

It all hinges on 2012. Because there is no way anything is happening in 13 and 14 in terms of title winning bringing them all back.

If winning again in 12 was a real possibility, then I'm wrong and it would have been worth it, but I'll still say it wasn't a real possibility and it's just far more likely we bow out in round 1 or round 2.

And now we honestly are a couple players away from being back to real contender status.

[JohnMax]

Is everyone going ignore the fact that Dirk Nowitzki and Dwyane Wade have not been the same since 2011?

That was the last year they were superstars.

[DMAVS41]

Is everyone going ignore the fact that Dirk Nowitzki and Dwyane Wade have not been the same since 2011?

That was the last year they were superstars.

Dirk was still about on that level in 12 actually...but yes, the natural decline of guys like Dirk isn't being talked about here.

Also, Terry and Marion and Kidd had completely fallen off by 13. And Chandler has been injured and straight up terrible in the playoffs since NYK.

It was unfortunately a no win situation in my opinion. Keep them and you aren't winning....let them go and you aren't getting any big name free agents that you sorely need.

[Locked_Up_Tonight]

And keep Kidd and Terry and let them RETIRE as Mavericks, because both of their jerseys will be hanging in the rafters.

Quite frankly, if Cuban was smart he should have given Kidd a coaching gig as an assistant the minute he retired as well. Let him be Carlisle's understudy.

As soon as Kidd got the NY gig... he immediately called Carlisle to get advice. During their playoff run in '11... Kidd was keeping a journal of all the ins and outs of it.

That is what Cuban should have done. But Cuban doesn't roll that way. Instead he wanted to waste time on a damn cartoon. That's a right, a cartoon. That cartoon was supposedly going to entice Howard.

[mr.big35]

they got lucky against spurs or else it would been over in 5 games. cuban is a bad gm slash owner

[jzek]

Of course. It's always a good idea to break up any team after winning the championship. It makes perfect sense. Why would you want to contend again when you've already won it? :facepalm

[robert_shaww]

there was absolutely no way that team was repeating.

:facepalm

[chocolatethunder]

And keep Kidd and Terry and let them RETIRE as Mavericks, because both of their jerseys will be hanging in the rafters.

Quite frankly, if Cuban was smart he should have given Kidd a coaching gig as an assistant the minute he retired as well. Let him be Carlisle's understudy.

As soon as Kidd got the NY gig... he immediately called Carlisle to get advice. During their playoff run in '11... Kidd was keeping a journal of all the ins and outs of it.

That is what Cuban should have done. But Cuban doesn't roll that way. Instead he wanted to waste time on a damn cartoon. That's a right, a cartoon. That cartoon was supposedly going to entice Howard.
That cartoon shit was about as stupid as stupid could be. That being said, nothing was going to get that team back to the finals whether it remained in tact or not. Who cares about Kidd and Terry staying. You can't keep players around for sentimental reasons. I don't really care about keeping Kidd as a coach. They don't need another assistant and Carlisle isn't going anywhere. Cuban took a risk and it didn't pay off but the risk of keeping that team together was too great an would never had worked. So he instead gambled on something that had a low chance of working but still greater than had the team remained in tact. It's very difficult to win a championship and it's even more difficult to repeat. People take it for granted and think that every team who wins has to repeat and every player needs one to be considered great. That's just not realistic.

[JohnFreeman]

Was a great move.

[DMAVS41]

That cartoon shit was about as stupid as stupid could be. That being said, nothing was going to get that team back to the finals whether it remained in tact or not. Who cares about Kidd and Terry staying. You can't keep players around for sentimental reasons. I don't really care about keeping Kidd as a coach. They don't need another assistant and Carlisle isn't going anywhere. Cuban took a risk and it didn't pay off but the risk of keeping that team together was too great an would never had worked. So he instead gambled on something that had a low chance of working but still greater than had the team remained in tact. It's very difficult to win a championship and it's even more difficult to repeat. People take it for granted and think that every team who wins has to repeat and every player needs one to be considered great. That's just not realistic.

Yea, this sums it up as well for me.

We also aren't even talking about the lockout season that Cuban genuinely didn't think was gonna happen and he didn't even know what rules he would need to play by in the future.

It was just an odd timing combined with winning a title as a huge underdog with aging players.

Now, like I said above, I think we did make some big mistakes. Here they are imo;

1. Letting Corey Brewer go. I liked him and really think an aging group could have used his energy.

2. The Odom trade. I liked it a lot at the time, but I also didn't realize the guy was a trainwreck off the court. Cuban/Nellie are responsible for not knowing that shit.

3. Not trading Marion at the deadline. He is still a good player and had an expiring 9.5 million dollar deal. Teams would have jumped at that and we could have at least gotten something back.

There are a few other things I didn't love, but those are the main 3.

[The-Legend-24]

That would be like breaking up the Lakers after 09.

Fvcking idiotic.

[G-train]

This. Should've re-signed Chandler at the very least.

For 60m?

[goldcrow]

I feel not signing Chandler is a good thing considering how he currently plays with the Knicks. They tried to copy that Mavs roster of 2011 but with Melo instead of Dirk last year. This year, they didn't even make the playoffs.

The risk of trying to get Howard was worth it since now Mavs have capspace moving forward with Dirk re-signing (hopefully) for way less.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Looks bad now, but D-Will and Dwight was a very realistic possibility. I think both come to Dallas if dumbass Dwight didnt opt-in.

For now, we just gotta build around Dirk and Monta. My dream off-season would be something like:

lowry
ellis
deng
dirk
sanders

Contenders right there. All the Mavs weaknesses are solved with that line-up.

[chocolatethunder]

Yea, this sums it up as well for me.

We also aren't even talking about the lockout season that Cuban genuinely didn't think was gonna happen and he didn't even know what rules he would need to play by in the future.

It was just an odd timing combined with winning a title as a huge underdog with aging players.

Now, like I said above, I think we did make some big mistakes. Here they are imo;

1. Letting Corey Brewer go. I liked him and really think an aging group could have used his energy.

2. The Odom trade. I liked it a lot at the time, but I also didn't realize the guy was a trainwreck off the court. Cuban/Nellie are responsible for not knowing that shit.

3. Not trading Marion at the deadline. He is still a good player and had an expiring 9.5 million dollar deal. Teams would have jumped at that and we could have at least gotten something back.

There are a few other things I didn't love, but those are the main 3.
I'm ok with not trading Marion. I'm not sure what you get in return would be as valuable as he is to the team even in the future. The dude is just a guy who's been a really good player for a long time. Can still play good D and still make plays. He's the kind of guy that San Antonio normally has on their team. Getting rid of him or keeping him is a wash to me. Odom? Yeah that shit is on them. Bonehead move for a bonehead who completely disrupted the team. If Dirk is talking bad about you, you must be fvcking up.

[DMAVS41]

That would be like breaking up the Lakers after 09.

Fvcking idiotic.

Not really, but even the Lakers replaced Ariza and had some new faces.

It all just boils down to this;

Is Tyson Chandler good enough to the clear cut 2nd best player on a championship team. If the answer to that is yes...then Cuban/Nellie made a big mistake.

If the answer to that is no...then they did the right thing.

I'm in the camp that Chandler is absolutely not good enough to be the clear cut 2nd best guy on a title winning team. And I think the last 3 years have proven that personally, but obviously it's hard to prove something like that with any certainty....

[DMAVS41]

I'm ok with not trading Marion. I'm not sure what you get in return would be as valuable as he is to the team even in the future. The dude is just a guy who's been a really good player for a long time. Can still play good D and still make plays. He's the kind of guy that San Antonio normally has on their team. Getting rid of him or keeping him is a wash to me. Odom? Yeah that shit is on them. Bonehead move for a bonehead who completely disrupted the team. If Dirk is talking bad about you, you must be fvcking up.

Well, we could have gotten something for his expiring 9 million dollar deal...let alone he is still a decent player.

You ask what we could have gotten? Why not Gortat at the beginning of the year? The Wizards got him for Okafor's deal alone...the Suns could have traded him to us and then moved Marion for even more at the deadline if they wanted to get even more.

I actually came up with that idea here and then literally days later Gortat was traded to the Wizards.

[The-Legend-24]

Not really, but even the Lakers replaced Ariza and had some new faces.

It all just boils down to this;

Is Tyson Chandler good enough to the clear cut 2nd best player on a championship team. If the answer to that is yes...then Cuban/Nellie made a big mistake.

If the answer to that is no...then they did the right thing.

I'm in the camp that Chandler is absolutely not good enough to be the clear cut 2nd best guy on a title winning team. And I think the last 3 years have proven that personally, but obviously it's hard to prove something like that with any certainty....
Didn't the Mavs have a completely different roster after they won?

I think u tweak the roster, and not overhaul the entire team in hopes of getting players you had no chance of getting.

[houston]

Cuban did the right thing. Tyson Chandler is sooooooo overrated. That Mavs team was old and caught lighting in a bottle during that run.

[The-Legend-24]

Looks bad now, but D-Will and Dwight was a very realistic possibility. I think both come to Dallas if dumbass Dwight didnt opt-in.

For now, we just gotta build around Dirk and Monta. My dream off-season would be something like:

lowry
ellis
deng
dirk
sanders

Contenders right there. All the Mavs weaknesses are solved with that line-up.
Now that I remember, wasn't D-Will actually gonna sign with the Mavs? But Cuban had to do that Shark Tank show and didn't show up to the meeting. :oldlol:

[DirkNowitzki41]

Now that I remember, wasn't D-Will actually gonna sign with the Mavs? But Cuban had to do that Shark Tank show and didn't show up to the meeting. :oldlol:

lmao, yeah. thats why i cant get mad at dwill re-signing with the nets. owner not showing up is a slap to the face:oldlol:

[Lebron23]

Randy Orton needs to RKO him again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnCXFzap63c

[paperstreet]

lmao, yeah. thats why i cant get mad at dwill re-signing with the nets. owner not showing up is a slap to the face:oldlol:


As I recall, they also didn't want to offer him the max.


Gortat, Okafor, Ariza, Lowry, Deng, and Monroe are the players I see cubes going after.

I'd like to see Calderon traded or reduced to 6th man.

Melo could be possible, but I think he'd cripple the team with his huge contract.

[DMAVS41]

Didn't the Mavs have a completely different roster after they won?

I think u tweak the roster, and not overhaul the entire team in hopes of getting players you had no chance of getting.

Kind of.

We still had Dirk/Marion/Kidd/Terry...still had Haywood and Mahinmi as well.

We lost 3 guys in our top 9 rotation with any chance of coming back;

1. Chandler
2. Barea
3. Stevenson

That is all we actually lost that stayed in the league. Peja and Cardinal retired. Stevenson essentially was done...he's out of the league now after playing two irrelevant years in Brooklyn iirc.

So it really was just Chandler and Barea. Barea fetched a 4 year deal worth like 18 million. That is simply too much...and it's not like we didn't replace him. We added Carter and Delonte West...which was actually just a better combo than what Barea provided.

So it really just came down to Chandler. And I get why a lot of Mavs fans, most even, are pissed about it. But I just don't see how Chandler can be your 2nd best player clearly and you win the title in this CBA. It seems impossible to me. Again, take a look at the Knicks the last 3 years now with Chandler as the 2nd best player playing with a superstar in his prime...the results have been awful. 2 trips to the playoffs...horrid playoff play from Chandler to date...often injured...I mean...really looks like a terrible move for the Knicks. You can't spend 15 million a year in this CBA on a guy that gives you 6/8/1 in the playoffs like Chandler has for the Kicks since going there.

To me, and it's just my opinion, we actually would have had a slightly better team in 12 if Odom wasn't a scumbag quitter. If we had made that move for a different player at that value and price we got Odom for...we definitely could have made some noise in the playoffs. I know it's bad luck to an extent, but Cuban and Nellie Jr have to know better than that. They have to know if he's worth it. We had to hit with that move...giving up our exception and a draft pick...

We get a real player in that spot and we are dangerous.

So, actually...not really. It's kind of overblown what Cuban did. Barea/Stevenson was replaced by Carter/West (again, just better combined)...Peja and Cardinal retired.

The only change that wasn't inevitable was Chandler. And I know he's good, but he's not THAT good. And we did offer him a 1 year 21 million dollar deal or whatever it was. He could have taken it and rolled his way into even more money if he was confident he was worth it. He wasn't, and I don't blame him...and he ended up being irrelevant for the last 3 years now in the grand scheme of things...and actually made less money by going to the Knicks....as he would have gotten his 21 million...plus a max deal starting in 13.

So, like I said, it boils down to whether or not Chandler can be the clear cut 2nd best guy on a champion. I emphatically say he can't...so I support what Cuban did there.

What I don't support is the Odom shit, the jokes we brought in for 13, and not doing something with Marion this year.

[west_tip]

Kind of.

We still had Dirk/Marion/Kidd/Terry...still had Haywood and Mahinmi as well.

We lost 3 guys in our top 9 rotation with any chance of coming back;

1. Chandler
2. Barea
3. Stevenson

That is all we actually lost that stayed in the league. Peja and Cardinal retired. Stevenson essentially was done...he's out of the league now after playing two irrelevant years in Brooklyn iirc.

I know he didn't play a single minute in the 2011 playoffs but you guys also lost Caron Butler right?

[DMAVS41]

I know he didn't play a single minute in the 2011 playoffs but you guys also lost Caron Butler right?

Yea, but he missed most of the year and didn't play the playoffs. Not relevant to the team that won the title.

And just another case of an overpaid player from the group. He got like 3 years 25 million from the Clippers.

[Kukoc]

Cuban is an idiot

Dirk and Dallas could have won one more chip

[MavsSuperFan]

That 2011 team probably would have lost if:
1. Dirk didnt go crazy

or

2. in the finals lebron played to 70% of his capabilities.

We werent winning anything after 2011. Trying to get dwight and deron was the right move

[MavsSuperFan]

Cuban broke a potential dynasty. Cuban is the reason people will view Dirk as a top 20 player rather than up there with MJ, Russell, Wilt, and KAJ.
:coleman: potential dynasty? come on thats ridiculous

[MavsSuperFan]

That would be like breaking up the Lakers after 09.

Fvcking idiotic.
The lakers were clearly the best team after 09.

Mavs winning in 2011 was a combo of dirks incredible play to get us to the finals, and 4th quarter heroics in the finals and lebron choking in the finals.

[DMAVS41]

That 2011 team probably would have lost if:
1. Dirk didnt go crazy

or

2. in the finals lebron played to 70% of his capabilities.

We werent winning anything after 2011. Trying to get dwight and deron was the right move

Yea, this seems to be what most fans don't realize. People actually think that the playoffs was our normal level.

Now, I could have definitely seen Dirk play at or near that level again overall...

But it was the other guys I would be worried about. Terry, Kidd, Marion....getting those guys to play like they did again....I just don't see that happening.

Anyone really think Terry could have gone for 18 ppg on 60% TS again? I sure as hell don't...

[Bandito]

Yea, but he missed most of the year and didn't play the playoffs. Not relevant to the team that won the title.

And just another case of an overpaid player from the group. He got like 3 years 25 million from the Clippers.
I dont even know how he got that contract when he was out for most of the year for an ACL and didnt even play that year. He couldve been another derrick Rose

[mr.big35]

cuban being cheap if they go this route again they will be barely make playoffs without any progress.

[mr.big35]

i dont think cuban cares about mavs winning anymore

[DirkNowitzki41]

Yea, this seems to be what most fans don't realize. People actually think that the playoffs was our normal level.

Now, I could have definitely seen Dirk play at or near that level again overall...

But it was the other guys I would be worried about. Terry, Kidd, Marion....getting those guys to play like they did again....I just don't see that happening.

Anyone really think Terry could have gone for 18 ppg on 60% TS again? I sure as hell don't...

Agreed.

Dirk was amazing in 2011 (one of the goat playoff runs) but it really isnt that much different then what he did in other playoff series. It's just this time his supporting cast finally showed up. Terry usually disappeared come playoff time. Kidd too for a couple of years.