Lets Be Real: Miami's Big 3 Joining Together

[SilkkTheShocker]

Was one of the best things to ever happen for the NBA.

Whether they win or lose, they're going to always be the talk of the NBA. Even when they aren't playing, it's all Heat talk. Love them or hate them, feel proud you get to tell people that you got to watch them play. Most iconic team in NBA history.

[JohnFreeman]

It definitely added some spice to the NBA.

[Real14]

It was tha worst thing dat happen to tha Nba.

[20Four]

Was one of the best things to ever happen for the NBA.

Whether they win or lose, they're going to always be the talk of the NBA. Even when they aren't playing, it's all Heat talk. Love them or hate them, feel proud you get to tell people that you got to watch them play. Most iconic team in NBA history.
Your a Ph^ggot....stfu already....nobody cares for them...they're in the east....weak $hit....

Edit:

Lets be real: Your a ph^ggot....make sure you wipe lebrons jizz ph^ggot fvck....just die

[TheMagicMan]

Worst thing to happen to the NBA since they decided to legitimize Wilt as a top 10 player of all time :facepalm

[SilkkTheShocker]

It was that worst thing dat happen to tha Nba.

Anytime the Spurs are in the Finals it's terrible for the NBA. Like I said, that team could cure insomnia.

[Springsteen]

If it wasn't for the Big Three we probably would've never gotten the Lebron App.

Thank you LeGod :lebronamazed:

[west_tip]

The problem for the Heat is that the Eastern conference is historically weak and when all is said and done I'm just not sure people are gonna give much of a care about their accomplishments.

They colluded to join forces and dominate the junior varsity conference when the real competition was out west.

[Real14]

Anytime the Spurs are in the Finals it's terrible for the NBA. Like I said, that team could cure insomnia.
Tha spurs are tied for 2nd worse thing to happen to tha nba.

[nathanjizzle]

its pretty entertaining, they turned the nba to a wwe story line.

also, get a life op, loser.

[Smook A.]

It definitely added some spice to the NBA.
:kobe:

Adding "spice" :lol
You really wanna see the same team in the finals over and over again?

[Smook A.]

I'd like to see a different team in the Finals. That'd be great.

[JBrizzy]

The Spurs brand of basketball is amazing to watch. They play beautiful basketball. Last year's final series was an awesome series. The only thing boring about them is the monochrome uniform or maybe the fact that they don't have a hyped up star.

[SpecialQue]

Anytime the Spurs are in the Finals it's terrible for the NBA. Like I said, that team could cure insomnia.

Spurs vs. Heat was the worst finals in NBA history.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

The problem for the Heat is that the Eastern conference is historically weak and when all is said and done I'm just not sure people are gonna give much of a care about their accomplishments.

They colluded to join forces and dominate the junior varsity conference when the real competition was out west.

Wait, people here actually believe this. Some of you guys are more delusional than I thought.

[sd3035]

The eastern conference is boring

[Le Shaqtus]

Heat aren't even fun to watch.

[SpecialQue]

Heat aren't even fun to watch.

Exactly. I don't know why the fvck so many people watch that shit. Dull basketball. It reminds me of that scene in American Psycho where he's banging that chick but staring at himself flexing in the mirror the entire time.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Heat aren't even fun to watch.

Most exciting team in the league by far.

[Black and White]

In an already watered down East, futher diluting it by having the 2 best eastern conference players on the same team is horrible along with another all star.

[Black and White]

Most exciting team in the league by far.

Disagree, excitement wise, D'antonis run n gun Lakers > Heat.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Spurs vs. Heat was the worst finals in NBA history.

Are you for reals? :facepalm

[navy]

The problem for the Heat is that the Eastern conference is historically weak and when all is said and done I'm just not sure people are gonna give much of a care about their accomplishments.

They colluded to join forces and dominate the junior varsity conference when the real competition was out west.

Only retards think that conferences have never been this weak before....

[stalkerforlife]

Cowardly beta males colluding did not help the NBA for me.

It made me sick.

[Le Shaqtus]

Exactly. I don't know why the fvck so many people watch that shit. Dull basketball. It reminds me of that scene in American Psycho where he's banging that chick but staring at himself flexing in the mirror the entire time.

:roll:

What an accurate description.

[west_tip]

The eastern conference is boring

Seriously. The current Eastern conference is the worst thing to happen to the NBA, ever.

Sub .500 teams making the postseason is a ****ing joke. Even then the overall #1 seed in the East goes to 7 games v the 8th seed.

Before anyone says the Spurs just went 7 with the Mavs, yeah thats the Mavs who are three years removed from winning a championship who feature a future HOFer not the Charlotte Bobcats.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Cowardly beta males colluding did not help the NBA for me.

It made me sick.

Do you feel better now?

[moe94]

Disagree, excitement wise, D'antonis run n gun Lakers > Heat.

What? Lakers were trash in every sense of the word. What was exciting about them? :roll:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Only retards think that conferences have never been this weak before....

Never hear a peep about some Magic's playoff runs in the weak west :oldlol:

[Beastmode88]

CP3 couldn't join the lakers but LBJ was able to join DWade. LEAGUE IS RIGGED. :coleman:

[Jameerthefear]

Honestly if MIA wasn't out East the West would be just kicking the shit out of them. We'd be seeing like Pacers-Spurs or some shit in the finals. Gross. Miami vs. any of the remaining teams in the west will all be good playoffs series though. Miami-Clippers, Miami-Spurs, Miami-OKC, Miami-Blazers. All would be fun as f*ck.

[SilkkTheShocker]

CP3 couldn't join the lakers but LBJ was able to join DWade. LEAGUE IS RIGGED. :coleman:

That trade was beyond awful. Stern had every right to veto that shit deal. Pelicans GM bent over and let Kupchak stick it right in his ass.

[Black and White]

What? Lakers were trash in every sense of the word. What was exciting about them? :roll:

Just fun to watch, I would put the Suns up there too, along with the Raptors.

[JohnFreeman]

Miami v Clippers would be the most "fun" scenario

[SpecialQue]

What? Lakers were trash in every sense of the word. What was exciting about them? :roll:

They ran around really fast.

[SpecialQue]

Miami v Clippers would be the most "fun" scenario

If you like flopping and freethrows, you'll be in hog heaven.

[SilkkTheShocker]

If you like flopping and freethrows, you'll be in hog heaven.

Freethrows? That's Oklahomo City.

[west_tip]

In an already watered down East, futher diluting it by having the 2 best eastern conference players on the same team is horrible along with another all star.

This. Call me old fashioned but Im from the school that prefers to see the best v the best rather than all stars joining up to beat outmatched opposition.

Rivalries >>>>>> collusion

[Black and White]

Freethrows? That's Oklahomo City.

The Clips are just as bad if not worse, you have 2 top 5 floppers on that squad.

[Mr. Jabbar]

well if by best you mean worse then yes :applause:

[JohnFreeman]

I did like LeBron on Cavs, Wade on Miami and Melo at Denver.

[stalkerforlife]

Do you feel better now?

Maybe.

Sean Penn was epic in Carlito's Way. :rockon:

[Black and White]

I did like LeBron on Cavs, Wade on Miami and Melo at Denver.

Yep, I feel its much better (and more competitive) that way.

[Le Shaqtus]

The Clips are just as bad if not worse, you have 2 top 5 floppers on that squad.

4 of the 5 including the Heat if they go to the finals.

Bron, Wade, Griff and CP Tornado

[Black and White]

4 of the 5

Bron, Wade, Griff and CP Tornado

Refs would run out of air blowing that many whistles.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Maybe.

Sean Penn was epic in Carlito's Way. :rockon:

:cheers:

Penn acting circles around Pacino :bowdown: :bowdown:

[CelticBaller]

Agreed

[SpecialQue]

Freethrows? That's Oklahomo City.

:durantunimpressed:

[JT123]

Sure was. You had the Boston big 3 ganging up on the little guys in Bron and Wade who were trying to win without stacking the deck. The Celtics had taken all the competition out of the East, but then Bron and Wade restored it by joining forces and taking out the evil Boston empire! :rockon: Competitive balance in the East was officially restored, although Pierce and Garnett have done their best to ruin it by jumping ship to Brooklyn and colluding with 2 other future Hall of Famers! :mad:

[Black and White]

Sure was. You had the Boston big 3 ganging up on the little guys in Bron and Wade who were trying to win without stacking the deck. The Celtics had taken all the competition out of the East, but then Bron and Wade restored it by taking out the evil Boston empire! :rockon: Competitive balance in the East was officially restored, although Pierce and Garnett have done their best to ruin it by jumping ship to Brooklyn and colluding with 2 other future Hall of Famers! :mad:

How old are you? :facepalm

[kamil]

Was one of the best things to ever happen for the NBA.

Sure if you like collusion and throwing integrity out the window. :rolleyes:

[JT123]

How old are you? :facepalm
What does that matter? Can you name one thing I said that was untrue? :confusedshrug: Boston had 4 future hall of famers on their roster, while no other EC team had more than one. Do you seriously think that was fair? :no:

[JT123]

Sure if you like collusion and throwing integrity out the window. :rolleyes:
Like what Noah is doing right now? :oldlol: Little bitch started texting Melo the day after being eliminated. :facepalm

[livinglegend]

Obviously it was great for the NBA.
What does the NBA want? Money, ratings, hype, fans...
Since the formation of the big 3, each year, 10/11 of the 15 most watched games during the regular season involve Miami Heat. During the playoffs, the best ratings involve Miami Heat.
Even Miami Heat and Spurs gave great ratings. :roll: People actually started to watch Spurs games because of Miami Heat.

Then, when you go trough social media, you ll see that Heat is the most talked team.

Obviously, it was great for the NBA. But it wasnt great for Lebron haters. :oldlol:

[Black and White]

What does that matter? Can you name one thing I said that was untrue? :confusedshrug: Boston had 4 future hall of famers on their roster, while no other EC team had more than one. Do you seriously think that was fair? :no:

The big 3 were all past their prime, and Rondo wasn't even close to his prime in the title run.

The heat big 3 on the other hand.....

[SilkkTheShocker]

What does that matter? Can you name one thing I said that was untrue? :confusedshrug: Boston had 4 future hall of famers on their roster, while no other EC team had more than one. Do you seriously think that was fair? :no:

It's only fair when LeBron gets to play with Mo Williams. Honestly, people are just mad he took matters in his own hand and wouldn't stay in Cleveland to play with TRASH.

[JT123]

It's only fair when LeBron gets to play with Mo Williams. Honestly, people are just mad he took matters in his own hand and wouldn't stay in Cleveland to play with TRASH.
This. Apparently Lebron is so good that playing with anyone capable of averaging more than 14 ppg is considered unfair for the rest of the league. :lol These fools don't even realize that they are inadvertently calling Lebron the GOAT! :bowdown:

[Straight_Ballin]

If it wasn't for the Big Three we probably would've never gotten the Lebron App.

Thank you LeGod :lebronamazed:

I hope your joking. That's all the world needs is a bunch of kids following lebron 24/7 wishing they could be there to wipe his ass when he shits.

[SilkkTheShocker]

This. Apparently Lebron is so good that playing with anyone capable of averaging more than 14 ppg is considered unfair for the rest of the league. :lol These fools don't even realize that they are inadvertently calling Lebron the GOAT! :bowdown:

:cheers:

[JT123]

The big 3 were all past their prime, and Rondo wasn't even close to his prime in the title run.

The heat big 3 on the other hand.....
Miami's big 3 are now past their primes as well, yet people are still crying about them playing together. :coleman:

[Black and White]

Miami's big 3 are now past their primes as well, yet people are still crying about them playing together. :coleman:

LeBron James is NOT past his prime, that has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard :facepalm

[SpecialQue]

LeBron James is NOT past his prime, that has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard :facepalm

They are REALLY pushing the "underdog" angle this season. It's fvcking retarded.

[Rake2204]

In an already watered down East, futher diluting it by having the 2 best eastern conference players on the same team is horrible along with another all star.I admit, I was caught wondering to myself these playoffs what the Eastern Conference would look like if three of its top stars were still heading their own competitive squads. For a moment, watching the Raptors do so well, I thought, "You know who I bet could help this squad? Chris Bosh."

It just kind of feels like a couple of teams in the East emptied the cupboards of every other team in the East, mostly funneling everything to two or three clubs, one of which includes the best player we've seen since Michael Jordan teamed up with another surefire Hall of Famer who remains deadlier than most others - even when injured, and another all-star on top of that.

As someone else said though, I think there's an argument to be made that the Miami situation likely piqued the interest of many who may have otherwise not cared. I bet the super team has helped the league financially. I'm just not sure if everyone's on board with what they did for the league competitively.

[SilkkTheShocker]

They are REALLY pushing the "underdog" angle this season. It's fvcking retarded.

No one believes in us

[hahaitme]

What

[Roundball_Rock]

Seriously. The current Eastern conference is the worst thing to happen to the NBA, ever.

Sub .500 teams making the postseason is a ****ing joke.

How about the East in, say, 1986? The 6th seed was 39-43 and the 8th seed was 30-52. How did the West look that year? Only one team won more than 51 games and only two won more than 47. The 5th seed was 42-40 while the 8th seed got in with 35 wins.

It is true the East is weaker than the West but that won't diminish Lebron's all-time standing any more than the Lakers getting a free trip to the Finals for practically an entire decade has diminished Kareem and Magic.

It also is true the Heat faced 7 game conference finals in both 2012 and 2013--so it isn't exactly as if they have been coasting through the playoffs.

With respect to the collusion issue, it is true Miami's stars colluded to create their super team. However, did that confer upon Lebron a unique advantage compared to past legends? This clearly is not the case. Jordan did not need to collude with free agents because Chicago acquired Pippen (the 5th pick by Seattle) as a rookie and drafted Horace Grant with a top 10 pick that very year. In the mid-90's they acquired the best rebounder of the era for a scrub center (Will Perdue). This was significant because rebounding was by far the biggest deficiency with the 1995 Bulls (Grant, their longtime power forward had left after the 1994 season). Once they had Rodman the league was done.

Shaq did not need to collude because his teams got him a rookie Kobe and Miami already had Wade when Shaq arrived. Similarly, the Lakers drafted Magic for Kareem and the Celtics McHale for Boston. The list goes on and on.

Even in modern times the facts created by the Heat's big 3 are not unusual, even though the method by which it was achieved is. The Celtics had their own big 3, OKC had Durant-Westbrook-Harden, Houston has Howard-Harden, the Lakers had three all-stars in Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the current Nets have Williams, Johnson, Pierce and Lopez. The Spurs have long featured stars alongside Duncan, whether it was Robinson at first or Parker and Ginobli later.

What Lebron did was break with a poor organization. Had he went to, say, the Bulls his results would have been similar. People would not be complaining about "collusion" but he would have had Rose, Noah, Deng (6th man?) and Boozer around him. That team would have won 3 rings, not 2.

The fact is Lebron + scrubs is enough to make a team a legitimate contender. We saw that in Cleveland several times. How many all-time greats could lift scrubs that much? If you put Lebron with another all-star you get multiple championships. This is a testament to how good Lebron is. Regardless of whether Lebron went the results would have been similar so long as the team was capable of acquiring a second all-star alongside him. Cleveland repeatedly failed to do so.

[PJR]

It's not even a question.

Ten Million people tuned in for "The Decision". Enough said. The Heat have been breaking regular season cable records left and right. Such a polarizing team that has generated so much interest. It's done wonders for the league.

[JT123]

LeBron James is NOT past his prime, that has to be one of the dumbest things I have heard :facepalm
Lebron peaked last season. He's still the best in the league, but he was clearly not the same this year. People think he's only 29 so he must still be in his prime, but that is not true. He has 11 seasons under his belt now, probably closer to 12 when you add up all his playoff games the last 3 years. When has a player with that many seasons under their belt ever been considered "in their prime?" :coleman:

[livinglegend]

How about the East in, say, 1986? The 6th seed was 39-43 and the 8th seed was 30-52. How did the West look that year? Only one team won more than 51 games and only two won more than 47. The 5th seed was 42-40 while the 8th seed got in with 35 wins.

It is true the East is weaker than the West but that won't diminish Lebron's all-time standing any more than the Lakers getting a free trip to the Finals for practically an entire decade has diminished Kareem and Magic.

It also is true the Heat faced 7 game conference finals in both 2012 and 2013--so it isn't exactly as if they have been coasting through the playoffs.

With respect to the collusion issue, it is true Miami's stars colluded to create their super team. However, did that confer upon Lebron a unique advantage compared to past legends? This clearly is not the case. Jordan did not need to collude with free agents because Chicago acquired Pippen (the 5th pick by Seattle) as a rookie and drafted Horace Grant with a top 10 pick that very year. In the mid-90's they acquired the best rebounder of the era for a scrub center (Will Perdue). This was significant because rebounding was by far the biggest deficiency with the 1995 Bulls (Grant, their longtime power forward had left after the 1994 season). Once they had Rodman the league was done.

Shaq did not need to collude because his teams got him a rookie Kobe and Miami already had Wade when Shaq arrived. Similarly, the Lakers drafted Magic for Kareem and the Celtics McHale for Boston. The list goes on and on.

Even in modern times the facts created by the Heat's big 3 are not unusual, even though the method by which it was achieved is. The Celtics had their own big 3, OKC had Durant-Westbrook-Harden, Houston has Howard-Harden, the Lakers had three all-stars in Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the current Nets have Williams, Johnson, Pierce and Lopez. The Spurs have long featured stars alongside Duncan, whether it was Robinson at first or Parker and Ginobli later.

What Lebron did was break with a poor organization. Had he went to, say, the Bulls his results would have been similar. People would not be complaining about "collusion" but he would have had Rose, Noah, Deng (6th man?) and Boozer around him. That team would have won 3 rings, not 2.

The fact is Lebron + scrubs is enough to make a team a legitimate contender. We saw that in Cleveland several times. How many all-time greats could lift scrubs that much? If you put Lebron with another all-star you get multiple championships. This is a testament to how good Lebron is. Regardless of whether Lebron went the results would have been similar so long as the team was capable of acquiring a second all-star alongside him. Cleveland repeatedly failed to do so.

:applause: :applause:
Is that really a Bulls fans? :biggums:

:applause:

[FLDFSU]

Yep, I feel its much better (and more competitive) that way.

Yep. And I feel that it is much better when we don't have Pierce, KG, Allen, and Rondo on one team either...East is much more competitive that way...

[FLDFSU]

Sure was. You had the Boston big 3 ganging up on the little guys in Bron and Wade who were trying to win without stacking the deck. The Celtics had taken all the competition out of the East, but then Bron and Wade restored it by joining forces and taking out the evil Boston empire! :rockon: Competitive balance in the East was officially restored, although Pierce and Garnett have done their best to ruin it by jumping ship to Brooklyn and colluding with 2 other future Hall of Famers! :mad:

:applause: :applause:

[houston]

this true indeed

[JohnFreeman]

How about the East in, say, 1986? The 6th seed was 39-43 and the 8th seed was 30-52. How did the West look that year? Only one team won more than 51 games and only two won more than 47. The 5th seed was 42-40 while the 8th seed got in with 35 wins.

It is true the East is weaker than the West but that won't diminish Lebron's all-time standing any more than the Lakers getting a free trip to the Finals for practically an entire decade has diminished Kareem and Magic.

It also is true the Heat faced 7 game conference finals in both 2012 and 2013--so it isn't exactly as if they have been coasting through the playoffs.

With respect to the collusion issue, it is true Miami's stars colluded to create their super team. However, did that confer upon Lebron a unique advantage compared to past legends? This clearly is not the case. Jordan did not need to collude with free agents because Chicago acquired Pippen (the 5th pick by Seattle) as a rookie and drafted Horace Grant with a top 10 pick that very year. In the mid-90's they acquired the best rebounder of the era for a scrub center (Will Perdue). This was significant because rebounding was by far the biggest deficiency with the 1995 Bulls (Grant, their longtime power forward had left after the 1994 season). Once they had Rodman the league was done.

Shaq did not need to collude because his teams got him a rookie Kobe and Miami already had Wade when Shaq arrived. Similarly, the Lakers drafted Magic for Kareem and the Celtics McHale for Boston. The list goes on and on.

Even in modern times the facts created by the Heat's big 3 are not unusual, even though the method by which it was achieved is. The Celtics had their own big 3, OKC had Durant-Westbrook-Harden, Houston has Howard-Harden, the Lakers had three all-stars in Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the current Nets have Williams, Johnson, Pierce and Lopez. The Spurs have long featured stars alongside Duncan, whether it was Robinson at first or Parker and Ginobli later.

What Lebron did was break with a poor organization. Had he went to, say, the Bulls his results would have been similar. People would not be complaining about "collusion" but he would have had Rose, Noah, Deng (6th man?) and Boozer around him. That team would have won 3 rings, not 2.

The fact is Lebron + scrubs is enough to make a team a legitimate contender. We saw that in Cleveland several times. How many all-time greats could lift scrubs that much? If you put Lebron with another all-star you get multiple championships. This is a testament to how good Lebron is. Regardless of whether Lebron went the results would have been similar so long as the team was capable of acquiring a second all-star alongside him. Cleveland repeatedly failed to do so.
:applause:

[JT123]

No one believes in us
QFT. At the beginning of the season just about every ESPN expert was picking "the field" to win it all this year instead of Miami. Even on this forum 90 percent of the posters are saying the Heat wouldn't make it out of the first round if they played in the West. :confusedshrug:

[JT123]

How about the East in, say, 1986? The 6th seed was 39-43 and the 8th seed was 30-52. How did the West look that year? Only one team won more than 51 games and only two won more than 47. The 5th seed was 42-40 while the 8th seed got in with 35 wins.

It is true the East is weaker than the West but that won't diminish Lebron's all-time standing any more than the Lakers getting a free trip to the Finals for practically an entire decade has diminished Kareem and Magic.

It also is true the Heat faced 7 game conference finals in both 2012 and 2013--so it isn't exactly as if they have been coasting through the playoffs.

With respect to the collusion issue, it is true Miami's stars colluded to create their super team. However, did that confer upon Lebron a unique advantage compared to past legends? This clearly is not the case. Jordan did not need to collude with free agents because Chicago acquired Pippen (the 5th pick by Seattle) as a rookie and drafted Horace Grant with a top 10 pick that very year. In the mid-90's they acquired the best rebounder of the era for a scrub center (Will Perdue). This was significant because rebounding was by far the biggest deficiency with the 1995 Bulls (Grant, their longtime power forward had left after the 1994 season). Once they had Rodman the league was done.

Shaq did not need to collude because his teams got him a rookie Kobe and Miami already had Wade when Shaq arrived. Similarly, the Lakers drafted Magic for Kareem and the Celtics McHale for Boston. The list goes on and on.

Even in modern times the facts created by the Heat's big 3 are not unusual, even though the method by which it was achieved is. The Celtics had their own big 3, OKC had Durant-Westbrook-Harden, Houston has Howard-Harden, the Lakers had three all-stars in Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the current Nets have Williams, Johnson, Pierce and Lopez. The Spurs have long featured stars alongside Duncan, whether it was Robinson at first or Parker and Ginobli later.

What Lebron did was break with a poor organization. Had he went to, say, the Bulls his results would have been similar. People would not be complaining about "collusion" but he would have had Rose, Noah, Deng (6th man?) and Boozer around him. That team would have won 3 rings, not 2.

The fact is Lebron + scrubs is enough to make a team a legitimate contender. We saw that in Cleveland several times. How many all-time greats could lift scrubs that much? If you put Lebron with another all-star you get multiple championships. This is a testament to how good Lebron is. Regardless of whether Lebron went the results would have been similar so long as the team was capable of acquiring a second all-star alongside him. Cleveland repeatedly failed to do so.
:applause: That was beautiful. You have got to be the only respectable Bulls fan on this forum. :cheers:

[SilkkTheShocker]

QFT. At the beginning of the season just about every ESPN expert was picking "the field" to win it all this year instead of Miami. Even on this forum 90 percent of the posters are saying the Heat wouldn't make it out of the first round if they played in the West. :confusedshrug:

Exactly. I also love how people constantly bitch how stacked Miami is, but in every hypothetical matchup, they were either losing or picked to win in 7 at best. Make up your mind, people!!:lol

[moe94]

How about the East in, say, 1986? The 6th seed was 39-43 and the 8th seed was 30-52. How did the West look that year? Only one team won more than 51 games and only two won more than 47. The 5th seed was 42-40 while the 8th seed got in with 35 wins.

It is true the East is weaker than the West but that won't diminish Lebron's all-time standing any more than the Lakers getting a free trip to the Finals for practically an entire decade has diminished Kareem and Magic.

It also is true the Heat faced 7 game conference finals in both 2012 and 2013--so it isn't exactly as if they have been coasting through the playoffs.

With respect to the collusion issue, it is true Miami's stars colluded to create their super team. However, did that confer upon Lebron a unique advantage compared to past legends? This clearly is not the case. Jordan did not need to collude with free agents because Chicago acquired Pippen (the 5th pick by Seattle) as a rookie and drafted Horace Grant with a top 10 pick that very year. In the mid-90's they acquired the best rebounder of the era for a scrub center (Will Perdue). This was significant because rebounding was by far the biggest deficiency with the 1995 Bulls (Grant, their longtime power forward had left after the 1994 season). Once they had Rodman the league was done.

Shaq did not need to collude because his teams got him a rookie Kobe and Miami already had Wade when Shaq arrived. Similarly, the Lakers drafted Magic for Kareem and the Celtics McHale for Boston. The list goes on and on.

Even in modern times the facts created by the Heat's big 3 are not unusual, even though the method by which it was achieved is. The Celtics had their own big 3, OKC had Durant-Westbrook-Harden, Houston has Howard-Harden, the Lakers had three all-stars in Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the current Nets have Williams, Johnson, Pierce and Lopez. The Spurs have long featured stars alongside Duncan, whether it was Robinson at first or Parker and Ginobli later.

What Lebron did was break with a poor organization. Had he went to, say, the Bulls his results would have been similar. People would not be complaining about "collusion" but he would have had Rose, Noah, Deng (6th man?) and Boozer around him. That team would have won 3 rings, not 2.

The fact is Lebron + scrubs is enough to make a team a legitimate contender. We saw that in Cleveland several times. How many all-time greats could lift scrubs that much? If you put Lebron with another all-star you get multiple championships. This is a testament to how good Lebron is. Regardless of whether Lebron went the results would have been similar so long as the team was capable of acquiring a second all-star alongside him. Cleveland repeatedly failed to do so.
http://www.cinemablend.com/images/sections/60060/_1382477641.gif

[ThePhantomCreep]

Sure if you like collusion and throwing integrity out the window. :rolleyes:

The excuses are hilarious too. Bosh and Wade had 11 combined all-stars appearances under their belt (and they were only 26 and 28 respectively) BEFORE they joined forces with LeBron in Miami. Iow, they didn't blossom into stars a'la Parker and Ginobili, they were already finished product franchise players. Nah, that isn't stacking the deck massively in your favor. Not at all. These homers are delusional.

[Number24]

Was one of the best things to ever happen for the NBA.

Whether they win or lose, they're going to always be the talk of the NBA. Even when they aren't playing, it's all Heat talk. Love them or hate them, feel proud you get to tell people that you got to watch them play. Most iconic team in NBA history.
Best for the Heat and the league. :cheers:
Worst for LeBron... :rolleyes:

[Black and White]

Lebron peaked last season. He's still the best in the league, but he was clearly not the same this year. People think he's only 29 so he must still be in his prime, but that is not true. He has 11 seasons under his belt now, probably closer to 12 when you add up all his playoff games the last 3 years. When has a player with that many seasons under their belt ever been considered "in their prime?" :coleman:

There is a difference between peak and prime, LeBron may not be at his peak anymore, but he is most definitely still in his prime, to say otherwise is straight up dumb :facepalm

Wade is an example of a player that is past his prime.

[west_tip]

How about the East in, say, 1986? The 6th seed was 39-43 and the 8th seed was 30-52. How did the West look that year? Only one team won more than 51 games and only two won more than 47. The 5th seed was 42-40 while the 8th seed got in with 35 wins.

It is true the East is weaker than the West but that won't diminish Lebron's all-time standing any more than the Lakers getting a free trip to the Finals for practically an entire decade has diminished Kareem and Magic.

It also is true the Heat faced 7 game conference finals in both 2012 and 2013--so it isn't exactly as if they have been coasting through the playoffs.

With respect to the collusion issue, it is true Miami's stars colluded to create their super team. However, did that confer upon Lebron a unique advantage compared to past legends? This clearly is not the case. Jordan did not need to collude with free agents because Chicago acquired Pippen (the 5th pick by Seattle) as a rookie and drafted Horace Grant with a top 10 pick that very year. In the mid-90's they acquired the best rebounder of the era for a scrub center (Will Perdue). This was significant because rebounding was by far the biggest deficiency with the 1995 Bulls (Grant, their longtime power forward had left after the 1994 season). Once they had Rodman the league was done.

Shaq did not need to collude because his teams got him a rookie Kobe and Miami already had Wade when Shaq arrived. Similarly, the Lakers drafted Magic for Kareem and the Celtics McHale for Boston. The list goes on and on.

Even in modern times the facts created by the Heat's big 3 are not unusual, even though the method by which it was achieved is. The Celtics had their own big 3, OKC had Durant-Westbrook-Harden, Houston has Howard-Harden, the Lakers had three all-stars in Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the current Nets have Williams, Johnson, Pierce and Lopez. The Spurs have long featured stars alongside Duncan, whether it was Robinson at first or Parker and Ginobli later.

What Lebron did was break with a poor organization. Had he went to, say, the Bulls his results would have been similar. People would not be complaining about "collusion" but he would have had Rose, Noah, Deng (6th man?) and Boozer around him. That team would have won 3 rings, not 2.

The fact is Lebron + scrubs is enough to make a team a legitimate contender. We saw that in Cleveland several times. How many all-time greats could lift scrubs that much? If you put Lebron with another all-star you get multiple championships. This is a testament to how good Lebron is. Regardless of whether Lebron went the results would have been similar so long as the team was capable of acquiring a second all-star alongside him. Cleveland repeatedly failed to do so.

Regarding the bold: Of course stars playing alongside other stars is not unprecedented in the NBA, that much is obvious.

As you point out what is unprecedented is three all star, franchise players in the prime of their careers conspiring to play with one another and frankly I find it incredibly disingenuous that you would compare their situation to that of OKC and the Spurs who drafted their best players and had to develop them. Ditto Pippen joining the Bulls, he was a walk on in college and Krause took a gamble on him which reaped rich dividends. In fact most of the examples you gave are pretty much in no way comparable to the Heat, for instance Shaq didn't join the Lakers in order to play with a teenage Kobe Bryant, there was significant risk in the Bulls acquiring the emotionally volatile Rodman, the Nets mortgaged their future (in terms of future picks) in order to put their current roster together.

What Lebron et al. did was in no way illegal or unethical, they were just exercising their rights as free agents and I can understand why they did what they did but as a fan I don't have to like it.

The simple fact is I'd rather see the best players facing each other rather than joining forces and watering down the competitiveness of the Eastern conference thus making it predictable and frankly boring.

[Roundball_Rock]

As you point out what is unprecedented is three all star, franchise players in the prime of their careers conspiring to play with one another

That is true--but does it matter? That is the real question. What is the definition of "conspiracy" anyway? Was it a conspiracy when Jordan demanded that the Bulls retain Pippen and Jackson or that he would retire? It certainly was blackmail. Speaking of Jordan, when he was thinking about leaving the Bulls early in his career the place he was considering going to was the New York Knicks with superstar Patrick Ewing...


Ditto Pippen joining the Bulls, he was a walk on in college and Krause took a gamble on him which reaped rich dividends

He was the 5th pick in the draft. That put him ahead of Kenny Smith (6th), Kevin Johnson (7th), Horace Grant (10th), Reggie Miller (11th), Muggsy Bogue (12th), Mark Jackson (18th), and Reggie Lewis (22nd).


there was significant risk in the Bulls acquiring the emotionally volatile Rodman

There was risk in that he could disrupt the team but they got him for nothing and were desperate. They got the greatest rebounder of the era for a career 5/5/1 player. It isn't as if they traded away real value in exchange for a risky player. Rodman's addition was very significant because the biggest weakness the 1995 team had was a lack of rebounding. Adding Rodman was the major difference between 72-10 and losing in the second round.


the Nets mortgaged their future (in terms of future picks) in order to put their current roster together

The same could be said about the Heat, who spend so much on 3 players they are left with a roster of scrubs.


for instance Shaq didn't join the Lakers in order to play with a teenage Kobe Bryant

No, but he derived the benefit of having a player like Kobe alongside him for many years. He also had Penny in Orlando, Wade in Miami, prime Amare and prime Nash in Phoenix, Lebron in Cleveland and KG/Pierce/Rondo in Boston. Granted, he was out of his prime by the time for the entirety of his tenure at those final three stops--but Shaq's career is exhibit A that a player can spend his entire career playing with elite talent.

What made Lebron's situation different from Duncan, Shaq, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, et al. is his franchise was uniquely inept and failed to get him a second all-star. He had to leave to achieve what the others got handed to them on a silver platter.

Would it have been any different if Lebron went to the Bulls instead of the Heat? He would have had a stacked team around him but would be playing with only one "superstar"--who would have been hurt for the last 2 seasons and last 3 playoffs anyway. I don't think it would have been different, other than Lebron winning 3 rings, not 2 during the past 3 years.


The simple fact is I'd rather see the best players facing each other rather than joining forces and watering down the competitiveness of the Eastern conference thus making it predictable and frankly boring.

That is understandable. I obviously would have preferred that Lebron went to the Bulls and that Wade remain on a different team.

Speaking of Wade, it is important to note Wade is 32 and past his prime. People act as if Lebron had peak Wade during most of his time in Miami. Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh averaged 12/7/2. Is Lebron getting an unusual amount of help? In 2012 Bosh posted 14/8/1. These are Horace Grant numbers--minus the elite defense.

If Carmelo colludes with Noah to join him, Rose and the second best coach in the league will those who ripped Lebron do the same with Carmelo?

The 90's Bulls' ECF's, in their title years, went 5, 6, 6, 4, 5, and 7 games. The Heat's ECF's have went 5, 7, 7. The 80's Lakers were not exactly sweating their way through the West either.

The Heat clearly are the best team in the East and have benefited immensely from the injuries to Rose, which eliminated their top rival from title contention. However, it is a myth that the Heat have coasted through the East. As I noted, they have had two 7 game ECF's in three years and have been the top seed only once in four years. Again, as a comparison off the top of my head, the 90's Bulls were the top seed in five of six championships seasons, and were a 57-25 #2 seed in the other.

What is lost regarding the Heat is their roster is very weak outside of three players, and Wade and Bosh are not what they were in 2010.

[Rose'sACL]

Yep, I feel its much better (and more competitive) that way.
i hope you do realize that you are a celtics fan. pretty much more than half your titles came with the most stacked team of all time compared to the league. Lakers and celtics fans should be the last to complain about things like these.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

The problem for the Heat is that the Eastern conference is historically weak and when all is said and done I'm just not sure people are gonna give much of a care about their accomplishments.

They colluded to join forces and dominate the junior varsity conference when the real competition was out west.
the east was strong enough in the alst two years.
this year there are two VERY stacked teams in the east outside of the heat.
its not the heats fault they cant get their sh1t together.
your argument is shit anyways since the Heat have to beat the best team of the west in a seven game series:facepalm :facepalm

[HiphopRelated]

That is true--but does it matter? That is the real question. What is the definition of "conspiracy" anyway? Was it a conspiracy when Jordan demanded that the Bulls retain Pippen and Jackson or that he would retire? It certainly was blackmail. Speaking of Jordan, when he was thinking about leaving the Bulls early in his career the place he was considering going to was the New York Knicks with superstar Patrick Ewing...



He was the 5th pick in the draft. That put him ahead of Kenny Smith (6th), Kevin Johnson (7th), Horace Grant (10th), Reggie Miller (11th), Muggsy Bogue (12th), Mark Jackson (18th), and Reggie Lewis (22nd).



There was risk in that he could disrupt the team but they got him for nothing and were desperate. They got the greatest rebounder of the era for a career 5/5/1 player. It isn't as if they traded away real value in exchange for a risky player. Rodman's addition was very significant because the biggest weakness the 1995 team had was a lack of rebounding. Adding Rodman was the major difference between 72-10 and losing in the second round.



The same could be said about the Heat, who spend so much on 3 players they are left with a roster of scrubs.



No, but he derived the benefit of having a player like Kobe alongside him for many years. He also had Penny in Orlando, Wade in Miami, prime Amare and prime Nash in Phoenix, Lebron in Cleveland and KG/Pierce/Rondo in Boston. Granted, he was out of his prime by the time for the entirety of his tenure at those final three stops--but Shaq's career is exhibit A that a player can spend his entire career playing with elite talent.

What made Lebron's situation different from Duncan, Shaq, Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird, et al. is his franchise was uniquely inept and failed to get him a second all-star. He had to leave to achieve what the others got handed to them on a silver platter.

Would it have been any different if Lebron went to the Bulls instead of the Heat? He would have had a stacked team around him but would be playing with only one "superstar"--who would have been hurt for the last 2 seasons and last 3 playoffs anyway. I don't think it would have been different, other than Lebron winning 3 rings, not 2 during the past 3 years.



That is understandable. I obviously would have preferred that Lebron went to the Bulls and that Wade remain on a different team.

Speaking of Wade, it is important to note Wade is 32 and past his prime. People act as if Lebron had peak Wade during most of his time in Miami. Wade averaged 16/5/5 and Bosh averaged 12/7/2. Is Lebron getting an unusual amount of help? In 2012 Bosh posted 14/8/1. These are Horace Grant numbers--minus the elite defense.

If Carmelo colludes with Noah to join him, Rose and the second best coach in the league will those who ripped Lebron do the same with Carmelo?

The 90's Bulls' ECF's, in their title years, went 5, 6, 6, 4, 5, and 7 games. The Heat's ECF's have went 5, 7, 7. The 80's Lakers were not exactly sweating their way through the West either.

The Heat clearly are the best team in the East and have benefited immensely from the injuries to Rose, which eliminated their top rival from title contention. However, it is a myth that the Heat have coasted through the East. As I noted, they have had two 7 game ECF's in three years and have been the top seed only once in four years. Again, as a comparison off the top of my head, the 90's Bulls were the top seed in five of six championships seasons, and were a 57-25 #2 seed in the other.

What is lost regarding the Heat is their roster is very weak outside of three players, and Wade and Bosh are not what they were in 2010.
You are severely overrating Rose

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Yep, I feel its much better (and more competitive) that way.
the only thing that feels better about that is for you to still shit talk lebron ebcause he would have NEVER won in Cleveland.
him sticking out with that shit franchise and wasting 7 years of his career is beyond loyal. probably the most loyal palyer in nba history tbh.
look at Kobe. forced the team that drafted him to trade him to the GOAT franchise. what an epic frontrunner.
also lebron teaming up with those guys was forced by the Celtic forming BIG four of Rondo, Garnett, Pierce and Allen.
somehow when Miami does it( and leaves huge flaws in the roster, like for example, not having a freaking Center) its something criminal:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

There is a difference between peak and prime, LeBron may not be at his peak anymore, but he is most definitely still in his prime, to say otherwise is straight up dumb :facepalm

Wade is an example of a player that is past his prime.
LMFAO LeBron is better than ever. also more athletic since he ever was since joining Miami.
Lebron not in his peak anymore yet got his head over the rim and outran everyone everytime he tried this season:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Rake2204]

Regarding the bold: Of course stars playing alongside other stars is not unprecedented in the NBA, that much is obvious.

As you point out what is unprecedented is three all star, franchise players in the prime of their careers conspiring to play with one another and frankly I find it incredibly disingenuous that you would compare their situation to that of OKC and the Spurs who drafted their best players and had to develop them. Ditto Pippen joining the Bulls, he was a walk on in college and Krause took a gamble on him which reaped rich dividends. In fact most of the examples you gave are pretty much in no way comparable to the Heat, for instance Shaq didn't join the Lakers in order to play with a teenage Kobe Bryant, there was significant risk in the Bulls acquiring the emotionally volatile Rodman, the Nets mortgaged their future (in terms of future picks) in order to put their current roster together.

What Lebron et al. did was in no way illegal or unethical, they were just exercising their rights as free agents and I can understand why they did what they did but as a fan I don't have to like it.

The simple fact is I'd rather see the best players facing each other rather than joining forces and watering down the competitiveness of the Eastern conference thus making it predictable and frankly boring.Well stated, particularly the bolded. I do not dispute those players' rights to make the moves they did. I just did not (and do not) favor those transactions. For me, it does matter how a team is created.

In the past, great teams always seemed to necessitate much savvy, risk, and luck. Having a championship team being as simple as a Dream Team trio joining up on a random franchise and filling in their roster's blank spots with their choice of role players took a lot of the fun and competition out of things. It seems slanted enough now that even two of those three playing at a fraction of their prime is still good enough for them to be better than 99% of the league.

That said, I bet Heat fans love it, and I cannot blame them. For many others though, it can complicate things, leaving one to wonder if franchises will all have fair opportunities to build and win, or whether it's just going to be about which prime stars opt to create championships from scratch.

I blame society (ha). I think some players have bought into the media logic that they're not good enough unless they win championship rings at any cost, even if it means Dream Teaming through lessers. As someone who believed LeBron James would have been one of the single greatest players of all-flippin'-time regardless of how many championship rings the team for which he played was able to earn, I think it may help one understand why the stacking situation kind of bummed me out.

[west_tip]

the west was strong enough in the alst two years.
this year there are two VERY stacked teams in the east outside of the heat.
its not the heats fault they cant get their sh1t together.
your argument is shit anyways since the Heat have to beat the best team of the west in a seven game series:facepalm :facepalm

Your post fails to account for how much easier the Heats path to the Finals is compared to the winner of the Western Conference, let me explain.

This is the top 10 teams in the league by regular season record (Eastern Conference teams bolded):

1. Spurs
2. Thunder
3. Clippers
4. Pacers
5. Heat
6. Rockets
7. Trailblazers
8. Warriors
9. Grizzlies
10. Mavericks

What this proves is that for a team to advance to the Finals from the Western conference they have to win THREE series against a top 10 team. To get to the Finals from the East you have to win only ONE series against a top 10 team as there are only two top 10 teams in the East.

As things stand right now Miami just beat the 15th overall seed, now they are gonna play the 14th. If the Pacers get upset by the Wizards they could make the Finals by beating the 15th, 14th and 13th seeds. Before you say thats implausible consider that the Pacers just got taken to 7 games by the worst team in the playoffs. Even if the Pacers win their series the Heat will play 15th-14th-4th seeds, that is a far easier road to the Finals than anyone out West will have and has a meaningful impact on their chances of winning because they can get to the Finals without breaking too much of a sweat and by playing only one tough series.

Contract the East already Silver. There are too many moribund franchises in that conference which devalue and dilute the quality of the NBA product and give the top seeds in the East an easy ride to the Finals.

Seriously I'm just so sick of the junior varsity nature of the Eastern conference.

[PJR]

I have NEVER seen so many arbitrary rules made up on the fly for a player and team like I have seen for LeBron James and the Miami Heat. :oldlol:

You can't do this. You're not suppose to do that. :oldlol:

[PJR]

Contract the East already Silver. There are too many moribund franchises in that conference which devalue and dilute the quality of the NBA product and give the top seeds in the East an easy ride to the Finals.

Seriously I'm just so sick of the junior varsity nature of the Eastern conference.

My god, quit your bitching of the Eastern Conference already. You sound like a broken record.

Did you call for a contracting of the Western Conference in the mid to late 80's, when the Lakers were mowing thru that paltry competition?

This shit runs in cycles.

[Boarder Patrol]

It adds to the drama, like any dynasty does. Will someone beat them finally? It's going to be huge when they're finally stopped.

At the same time it took an already lame East and kicked it in the gut. 3 of the conferences top players are on the same team.

[kamil]

Like what Noah is doing right now? :oldlol: Little bitch started texting Melo the day after being eliminated. :facepalm

That to you is the same as everything that happened with LeBron?

GTFO.

[Funnyfuka]

heat destroy everyone based on sheer athleticism, even skilled teams like the spurs. Spurs could barely beat mavs, you think they stand a chance against ****ing stacked young heat.

[sportjames23]

Most exciting team in the league by far.


Warriors, Clippers and Blazers say hi.

[sportjames23]

:cheers:

Penn acting circles around Pacino :bowdown: :bowdown:


Luis Guzman >>>>>> Penn and Pacino. :pimp:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Luis Guzman >>>>>> Penn and Pacino. :pimp:

I like Guzman also. Dude was a boss when he was on Oz :bowdown:

[oh the horror]

heat destroy everyone based on sheer athleticism, even skilled teams like the spurs. Spurs could barely beat mavs, you think they stand a chance against ****ing stacked young heat.



heat aren't that young dude.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

heat destroy everyone based on sheer athleticism, even skilled teams like the spurs. Spurs could barely beat mavs, you think they stand a chance against ****ing stacked young heat.
http://i.imgur.com/KLyJGLZ.gif

[SilkkTheShocker]

heat destroy everyone based on sheer athleticism, even skilled teams like the spurs. Spurs could barely beat mavs, you think they stand a chance against ****ing stacked young heat.

Why is your avatar of that garbage shoe? That was the shoe people bought if they couldn't afford the Kobe 1 :oldlol:

[pegasus]

Yeah, three superstar cowards all from the same conference joining forces to further deplete the conference is exactly what the league needed.

[Kukoc]

Most weak ass loser thing.

But hey LeBron just proved that he aint no MJ and never will be

[ArbitraryWater]

How about the East in, say, 1986? The 6th seed was 39-43 and the 8th seed was 30-52. How did the West look that year? Only one team won more than 51 games and only two won more than 47. The 5th seed was 42-40 while the 8th seed got in with 35 wins.

It is true the East is weaker than the West but that won't diminish Lebron's all-time standing any more than the Lakers getting a free trip to the Finals for practically an entire decade has diminished Kareem and Magic.

It also is true the Heat faced 7 game conference finals in both 2012 and 2013--so it isn't exactly as if they have been coasting through the playoffs.

With respect to the collusion issue, it is true Miami's stars colluded to create their super team. However, did that confer upon Lebron a unique advantage compared to past legends? This clearly is not the case. Jordan did not need to collude with free agents because Chicago acquired Pippen (the 5th pick by Seattle) as a rookie and drafted Horace Grant with a top 10 pick that very year. In the mid-90's they acquired the best rebounder of the era for a scrub center (Will Perdue). This was significant because rebounding was by far the biggest deficiency with the 1995 Bulls (Grant, their longtime power forward had left after the 1994 season). Once they had Rodman the league was done.

Shaq did not need to collude because his teams got him a rookie Kobe and Miami already had Wade when Shaq arrived. Similarly, the Lakers drafted Magic for Kareem and the Celtics McHale for Boston. The list goes on and on.

Even in modern times the facts created by the Heat's big 3 are not unusual, even though the method by which it was achieved is. The Celtics had their own big 3, OKC had Durant-Westbrook-Harden, Houston has Howard-Harden, the Lakers had three all-stars in Kobe, Gasol, Bynum and the current Nets have Williams, Johnson, Pierce and Lopez. The Spurs have long featured stars alongside Duncan, whether it was Robinson at first or Parker and Ginobli later.

What Lebron did was break with a poor organization. Had he went to, say, the Bulls his results would have been similar. People would not be complaining about "collusion" but he would have had Rose, Noah, Deng (6th man?) and Boozer around him. That team would have won 3 rings, not 2.

The fact is Lebron + scrubs is enough to make a team a legitimate contender. We saw that in Cleveland several times. How many all-time greats could lift scrubs that much? If you put Lebron with another all-star you get multiple championships. This is a testament to how good Lebron is. Regardless of whether Lebron went the results would have been similar so long as the team was capable of acquiring a second all-star alongside him. Cleveland repeatedly failed to do so.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/37/377c0ef2bf3e70b360f60208d2bb304a3538d8d2fcf6139fe6 abd0298deeb140.jpg

[Roundball_Rock]

You are severely overrating Rose

It isn't just Rose. Yes, Wade was better than Rose in 2011 but the Bulls as a whole, with Lebron, would be better in 2011 than the Heat were with him. Who did the 2011 Heat have besides Wade and Bosh? The Bulls had a solid starting 5 and arguably the best bench in the league. This is a team that managed to finish 4th and 5th respectively without Rose--and this year's finish was without Deng for the final part of the season as well. The Bulls won a series last over a team with Joe Johnson, Brook Lopez and Deron Williams (incidentally, three all-star players). Add Lebron to that? Championship.

Take Lebron off the Heat and what do the Heat do?

[FLDFSU]

Regarding the bold: Of course stars playing alongside other stars is not unprecedented in the NBA, that much is obvious.

As you point out what is unprecedented is three all star, franchise players in the prime of their careers conspiring to play with one another and frankly I find it incredibly disingenuous that you would compare their situation to that of OKC and the Spurs who drafted their best players and had to develop them. Ditto Pippen joining the Bulls, he was a walk on in college and Krause took a gamble on him which reaped rich dividends. In fact most of the examples you gave are pretty much in no way comparable to the Heat, for instance Shaq didn't join the Lakers in order to play with a teenage Kobe Bryant, there was significant risk in the Bulls acquiring the emotionally volatile Rodman, the Nets mortgaged their future (in terms of future picks) in order to put their current roster together.

What Lebron et al. did was in no way illegal or unethical, they were just exercising their rights as free agents and I can understand why they did what they did but as a fan I don't have to like it.

The simple fact is I'd rather see the best players facing each other rather than joining forces and watering down the competitiveness of the Eastern conference thus making it predictable and frankly boring.

Once again, just trying to compete with Boston...

Love how Heat haters just ignore the fact that Boston-3 HOF, an all-star PG, and a HOF coach-all decided to join up and basically gang up on Wade, Lebron, and Howard (and Bosh).

Heat haters never want to talk about Boston because they know it blows their argument up.

[red1]

I love how people are still crying about it to this day. Legit makes me laugh.

[red1]

Yeah, three superstar cowards all from the same conference joining forces to further deplete the conference is exactly what the league needed.
:roll: You poor bulls fan.

[Solefade]

so many whiny bitches in this thread :lol

[pegasus]

Once again, just trying to compete with Boston...

Love how Heat haters just ignore the fact that Boston-3 HOF, an all-star PG, and a HOF coach-all decided to join up and basically gang up on Wade, Lebron, and Howard (and Bosh).

Heat haters never want to talk about Boston because they know it blows their argument up.

Boston's big 3 were past their prime, Rondo had just finished his rookie year, and Rivers was considered a bust as a coach until 2008. So, what's being blown up exactly? Just look what happened in 2009. Old Garnett got injured and their season was done. And they made it back to the Finals in 2010 only because Lebron quit.

[pegasus]

:roll: You poor bulls fan.

And you poor "Raptors" fan with Lebron's dick in your mouth:roll:

[sd3035]

Boston's big 3 were past their prime, Rondo had just finished his rookie year, and Rivers was considered a bust as a coach until 2008. So, what's being blown up exactly? Just look what happened in 2009. Old Garnett got injured and their season was done. And they made it back to the Finals in 2010 only because Lebron quit.

Another Lebron choke job often overshadowed by the epic 2011 finals meltdown

[Roundball_Rock]

Boston's big 3 were past their prime, Rondo had just finished his rookie year, and Rivers was considered a bust as a coach until 2008. So, what's being blown up exactly? Just look what happened in 2009. Old Garnett got injured and their season was done. And they made it back to the Finals in 2010 only because Lebron quit.

That is true but a bit misleading. They were technically past their prime but still damn good. When the big 3 were formed everyone instantly pegged them as title favorites and as reviving Boston. KG was 31, Allen 32 and Pierce 30 in 2008 so they were not exactly ancient. That team won 66 games; KG was 3rd in MVP voting, won the DPOY, made all-NBA 1st team; Piece was all-NBA 3rd team in 2008 and on the 2nd team the following year. All three made the all-star team.

Regarding 2009, the Celtics pushed the eventual Eastern conference champion Magic to 7 games in the second round. It isn't as if they collapsed like, say, the Bulls did in 2012 when Rose went down. In 2010 the Celtics took the Lakers to 7 in the NBA finals. By then the big 3 had declined but Rondo had emerged to pick up much of the slack.

How about the 1990's? Was it "fair" that the Bulls were the only team to have 3 HOF players--along with a HOF coach (plus the best 6th man and the best three point shooter)? No one ever holds that against MJ yet we are going to hold Wade, Bosh and Spolestra against Lebron?

I don't like what Lebron and Bosh did but I also don't think it is fair to hold Lebron to an arbitrary standard simply due to how his team was formed.

[Kukoc]

Sure if you cant win alone, be a chicken and join the other chickens

[west_tip]

Once again, just trying to compete with Boston...

Love how Heat haters just ignore the fact that Boston-3 HOF, an all-star PG, and a HOF coach-all decided to join up and basically gang up on Wade, Lebron, and Howard (and Bosh).

Heat haters never want to talk about Boston because they know it blows their argument up.

That comparison only works if we accept that Rondo was an all star in 07 (he wasn't) and if you think that Boston acquiring two 30 something 10+ year veterans via TRADE is in any way comparable to three all star free agents colluding to play together the best of which was 25/26 at that time.

[red1]

And you poor "Raptors" fan with Lebron's dick in your mouth:roll:
Except you post about him more than me.

[red1]

It's no wonder why this guy is so hurt. :roll:

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mcqqri8pRy1rp3ypz.jpg

[KingBeasley08]

Another great thread by Silk. Love em or hate em, the Heat have been fun as hell the past couple years

[HoopsFanNumero1]

It's the greatest thing to have happened to the league in this century.

[HiphopRelated]

It isn't just Rose. Yes, Wade was better than Rose in 2011 but the Bulls as a whole, with Lebron, would be better in 2011 than the Heat were with him. Who did the 2011 Heat have besides Wade and Bosh? The Bulls had a solid starting 5 and arguably the best bench in the league. This is a team that managed to finish 4th and 5th respectively without Rose--and this year's finish was without Deng for the final part of the season as well. The Bulls won a series last over a team with Joe Johnson, Brook Lopez and Deron Williams (incidentally, three all-star players). Add Lebron to that? Championship.

Take Lebron off the Heat and what do the Heat do?
The Bulls have shown themselves to be a team with no 2nd gear. No the Bulls would not have been better in 2011, and damn sure not better with Rose injured.

The regular season means nothing to Miami.

The Heat were 5th seeds with Beasley as the 2nd best player. They're not suddenly fighting for HC because Lebron isn't on the team.

[FLDFSU]

Boston's big 3 were past their prime, Rondo had just finished his rookie year, and Rivers was considered a bust as a coach until 2008. So, what's being blown up exactly? Just look what happened in 2009. Old Garnett got injured and their season was done. And they made it back to the Finals in 2010 only because Lebron quit.

Yet, Every starter of that Boston team is still starting and contributing to a playoff team with the exception of Rondo and Allen. And Allen is the 6th man for the Miami Heat and still is on the floor at the end of games. And Rondo is now considered a franchise player. And their coach was so valuable that Boston was able to trade him.

This is CURRENTLY. How much past your prime can they have been if almost a decade later they are all heavy contributors to championship teams (except Rondo).

Like I said, Boston would have gone to 5 straight finals if not for a KG injury and the formation of the Heat's big three.

[FLDFSU]

And also when the Heat's big three formed, guess what team led the league in all-stars in 2010? Boston: Rondo, Pierce, Allen, KG all-stars AFTER the formation of the Heat big three.

[FLDFSU]

That comparison only works if we accept that Rondo was an all star in 07 (he wasn't) and if you think that Boston acquiring two 30 something 10+ year veterans via TRADE is in any way comparable to three all star free agents colluding to play together the best of which was 25/26 at that time.


Players CANNOT collude...teams collude...

Omer Asik, JR Smith, and DJ Augustin can all agree to sign with the Heat this summer. Pat Riley can sign all or none of them.

Again, players CANNOT collude. It doesn't exist.

[PJR]

These Heat hating idiots hurling out the word "Collusion" clearly don't even know what the word means. :oldlol:

[Black and White]

Players CANNOT collude...teams collude...

Omer Asik, JR Smith, and DJ Augustin can all agree to sign with the Heat this summer. Pat Riley can sign all or none of them.

Again, players CANNOT collude. It doesn't exist.

So you are saying that LeBron didn't actively speak to Wade and Bosh about playing togther??

The team facilitates, its up to the players to decide whether they play together or not.

[FLDFSU]

So you are saying that LeBron didn't actively speak to Wade and Bosh about playing togther??

The team facilitates, its up to the players to decide whether they play together or not.

So what? Amare can actively speak to Chris Paul about playing together in LA. That is NOT collusion. They cannot force that to happen.

Players do not have the ability to collude. It doesn't exist.

The Knicks and the Celtics...they can collude. Wade and James cannot.

[Black and White]

So what? Amare can actively speak to Chris Paul about playing together in LA. That is NOT collusion. They cannot force that to happen.

Players do not have the ability to collude. It doesn't exist.

The Knicks and the Celtics...they can collude. Wade and James cannot.

The team is what made it possible yes, but you don't think 3 all stars in their prime deciding to play together is unsportsmanlike??? I'm not saying they did the wrong thing, but in the intrest of competitivness its not a good thing.

[FLDFSU]

The team is what made it possible yes, but you don't think 3 all stars in their prime deciding to play together is unsportsmanlike??? I'm not saying they did the wrong thing, but in the intrest of competitivness its not a good thing.

Good. Now that we got that "collusion" out of the way...No, I don't think it was unsportsmanlike considering what Boston did.

Boston, the team you root for, the year prior to the Heat's formation...ganged up on Wade, then Lebron, then Howard, and ALMOST beat Kobe. If not for the Heat YOUR team would have gone to 5 straight Finals...

YOUR team AFTER the Heat formed STILL had the MOST all-stars in the league in 2011.

That was unfair. The only thing Miami did was try to even things out.

If Boston hadn't form...then MAYBE I'll agree with you. But Boston did form, then proceed to kick the East's ass.

Tough luck.

[Black and White]

Good. Now that we got that "collusion" out of the way...No, I don't think it was unsportsmanlike considering what Boston did.

Boston, the team you root for, the year prior to the Heat's formation...ganged up on Wade, then Lebron, then Howard, and ALMOST beat Kobe. If not for the Heat YOUR team would have gone to 5 straight Finals...

YOUR team AFTER the Heat formed STILL had the MOST all-stars in the league in 2011.

That was unfair. The only thing Miami did was try to even things out.

If Boston hadn't form...then MAYBE I'll agree with you. But Boston did form, then proceed to kick the East's ass.

Tough luck.


Like I said before, the Boston big three were past their primes, its different,

and to the bolded, no, that is not true, due to their age, we were plagued with injuries, and we wouldnt have made the finals 5 straight years, thats an overreaction, 3 finals at the most.

[PJR]

Like I said before, the Boston big three were past their primes, its different,


It's really NOT different.

Are you telling me there is some sort of arbitrary set age that you need to meet before you can choose to play with other great players, if the opportunity itself?

And if you are, do you realize how stupid that sounds? :oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

B&W getting decimated in this thread :oldlol:

[FLDFSU]

Like I said before, the Boston big three were past their primes, its different,

and to the bolded, no, that is not true, due to their age, we were plagued with injuries, and we wouldnt have made the finals 5 straight years, thats an overreaction, 3 finals at the most.

1. Finals
2. KG Injury
3. Finals
4. Stopped by Heat in round 2
5. Stopped by Heat in ECF (still took the Heat to 7 games)

And like I said, how far past their primes can they be if ALL three of them are heavy contributors to playoffs teams TODAY?

How far past their primes can they be if they were ALL all-stars AFTER the formation of the Heat's big three? (2011)

And that doesn't even include the fact that Rondo is now a franchise player, and Rivers was so valuable that he was traded.

To close out a close game, Allen, Pierce, and KG are on the floor for their respective playoff teams TODAY.

[Rake2204]

Good. Now that we got that "collusion" out of the way...No, I don't think it was unsportsmanlike considering what Boston did.

Boston, the team you root for, the year prior to the Heat's formation...ganged up on Wade, then Lebron, then Howard, and ALMOST beat Kobe. If not for the Heat YOUR team would have gone to 5 straight Finals...

YOUR team AFTER the Heat formed STILL had the MOST all-stars in the league in 2011.

That was unfair. The only thing Miami did was try to even things out.

If Boston hadn't form...then MAYBE I'll agree with you. But Boston did form, then proceed to kick the East's ass.

Tough luck.Detroit fan here. My squad hasn't been competitive since before the current Miami Heat team was formed. While again, as always, acknowledging it was well within their right to join forces in the manner they did, I felt the James/Wade/Bosh prime team-up was not good for the sake of competition. I was displeased due to overkill.

While James was in Cleveland, even when he was battling my Pistons, I thought he was incredible and it was enjoyable to watch him play. I thought he was a great enough player that I believed his surrounding cast for his last years in Cleveland would be good enough to win a championship - because I felt James could evoke more out of his teammates than anyone I'd seen in my lifetime. He seemed like a total, "We're gonna do this together because I know and believe in your abilities" ball player.

I thought maybe an additional skilled sidekick would have been a wise pickup for Cleveland - like a Chris Bosh or maybe even someone a little less prominent. But James and the Heat went so far in the opposite direction that it seems they didn't just teeter on the line of "Hmm, they could be good enough to win now." Instead, they instantly became NBA Championship foregone conclusions, and that's not really fulfilling for anyone except Miami Heat fans (and again, I cannot blame you guys for enjoying it).

With Kevin Garnett and company in Boston, they always felt beatable and never really gave off an invincible "This isn't even fair" vibe. It could have been due to age. More likely, it was because none of Boston's Big 3 were LeBron James. My thought was, "Alright, LeBron almost led a Mo Williams Cleveland team to 70 wins and a championship. Did he really need to team up with two Dream Teamers and the likes of Shane Battier and Mike Miller?" 'Twas like bringing a rocket launcher to a knife fight.

[Black and White]

It's really NOT different.

Are you telling me there is some sort of arbitrary set age that you need to meet before you can choose to play with other great players, if the opportunity itself?

And if you are, do you realize how stupid that sounds? :oldlol:

As I have said earlier in this thread, I never said the Heat 3 did the wrong thing (I have said many times on this forum that LeBron did the right thing for himself and his brand), however my issue is that if Wade, Bosh and Bron were on seperate teams, it would make the Eastern conference very interesting for the last 3 years, thats all, there is no set age btw.

[PJR]

As I have said earlier in this thread, I never said the Heat 3 did the wrong thing (I have said many times on this forum that LeBron did the right thing for himself and his brand), however my issue is that if Wade, Bosh and Bron were on seperate teams, it would make the Eastern conference very interesting for the last 3 years, thats all, there is no set age btw.

If you weren't concerned about the strength of the conference back in the 2008, you have no reason to do so now.

Stop fronting like you care about the "competitiveness" of the Eastern Conference. You only care because Miami is winning. *shrugs*

[Black and White]

1. Finals
2. KG Injury
3. Finals
4. Stopped by Heat in round 2
5. Stopped by Heat in ECF (still took the Heat to 7 games)

And like I said, how far past their primes can they be if ALL three of them are heavy contributors to playoffs teams TODAY?

How far past their primes can they be if they were ALL all-stars AFTER the formation of the Heat's big three? (2011)

And that doesn't even include the fact that Rondo is now a franchise player, and Rivers was so valuable that he was traded.

To close out a close game, Allen, Pierce, and KG are on the floor for their respective playoff teams TODAY.


With the big 3, you have a Tim Duncan/Dirk situation, they are past their primes (well past their primes) but are so talented that they are still able to produce solid numbers and have adapted well.

Once Rondo became the franchise player, the big 3 struggled to stay healthy to make a real go of things, KGs knees were a constant issue and they spent hours working on him before games.

The Celtics were never considered unbeatable, all series they played were tough (they were down 3-2 to the Hawks for goodness sake), it just so happens that their experience managed to get them that far.

I am not saying the Heat 3 did the wrong thing tho, let me get that clear.

[Black and White]

If you weren't concerned about the strength of the conference back in the 2008, you have no reason to do so now.

Stop fronting like you care about the "competitiveness" of the Eastern Conference. You only care because Miami is winning. *shrugs*

KG, PP and Allen being on seperate teams wouldn't make the league much more competitve than if Bron and Wade stayed on seperate teams and were surrounded by good role players, thats a fact.

[PJR]

With Kevin Garnett and company in Boston, they always felt beatable and never really gave off an invincible "This isn't even fair" vibe.

I beg to differ. As a Heat fan, who's team was on the decline, and had Wade coming off a couple of surgeries, and had Old Shaq's 20 million on on the books, as soon as the Celtics made the trade with T'Wovles for KG, I was like "yea they're going to win pretty easily this year".

[PJR]

KG, PP and Allen being on seperate teams wouldn't make the league much more competitve than if Bron and Wade stayed on seperate teams and were surrounded by good role players, thats a fact.

It's really not a fact at all.

And being surrounding by "Good role players" doesn't win titles. That gets you first round exits, or semi finals exits.

They wanted more.

[Black and White]

It's really not a fact at all.

And being surrounding by "Good role players" doesn't win titles. That gets you first round exits, or semi finals exits.

They wanted more.

Yea, I'm saying it makes the league more competitive, btw, Dirk was surrounded by good role players in 2011, he got the job done :confusedshrug:

[JellyBean]

Was one of the best things to ever happen for the NBA.

Whether they win or lose, they're going to always be the talk of the NBA. Even when they aren't playing, it's all Heat talk. Love them or hate them, feel proud you get to tell people that you got to watch them play. Most iconic team in NBA history.

I do say I agree with you. If LeBron would have stayed in Cleveland or went to some other team and that team never advanced to the NBA Finals, we would have had non-stop talk about how "LeBron could not win the big one" Now he has won two, gone to the NBA Finals three years in a row (with a possible 4th trip in the making), been named NBA Finals twice, and a host of other positive news. By joining with Wade and Bosh, James has kept the NBA moving forward and set in motion the next phase of the NBA after the great Kobe Bryant. So I agree. Joining the Big 3 has been a good thing.

[PJR]

btw, Dirk was surrounded by good role players in 2011, he got the job done :confusedshrug:

That's called an outlier.

Every once in a while, you get one. The 2011 Mavs were that. So were the 94 Rockets.

But more often than not, title winning teams have had multiple transcendent superstar talents spearheading the team.

LeBron didn't want to scrap and claw just to be some One Hit wonder. He wanted to compete for multiple years. So he made the move accordingly in order to do that.

I applaud him for it.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Yea, I'm saying it makes the league more competitive, btw, Dirk was surrounded by good role players in 2011, he got the job done :confusedshrug:
only because terry played like an allstar and chandler played like and borderline allstar.
that and a bunch of role palyers playing out of their minds( jkidd for example was mad udnerrated in that title run) = contender

[russwest0]

The Heat are the "talk of the NBA?"

Then why haven't heard shit about the Heat in the playoffs this year because it seems like no one cares.

[Rake2204]

I have a question that will sound ridiculous and it's clearly hypothetical, but perhaps worthwhile: what is your limit to team forming? If the stars somehow aligned in 2010 to where LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh all signed like they did, but then they also decided to cut their own deals far enough (already being millionaires many times over) to accommodate an addition of Dwight Howard and Rajon Rondo at other points shortly down the line, alongside their worthy role player add-ons such as Mike Miller and Shane Battier, would that have been too much? Five players all arguably the best or near the best at their respective positions on one team?

If not, do you have a limit at all? For me, I think my limit on artificial team forming (i.e. players all getting up and deciding to meet in one lucky location somewhere) just happened to be surpassed when the greatest player of our time joined two fellow Dream Teamers.

[Black and White]

That's called an outlier.

Every once in a while, you get one. The 2011 Mavs were that. So were the 94 Rockets.

But more often than not, title winning teams have had multiple transcendent superstar talents spearheading the team.

LeBron didn't want to scrap and claw just to be some One Hit wonder. He wanted to compete for multiple years. So he made the move accordingly in order to do that.

I applaud him for it.

Yea I agree, if you want to win multiple titles, you have to have the right team, he did the right thing for himself, I just look at it from the perspective that the 2 best players in the east on the same team makes it less competitive, it would have been cool if Wade and Bosh teamed up and LeBron teamed up with Melo or Tyson Chandler/role players or something, then you have like 3 teams at least that are going to fight it out.

[Black and White]

only because terry played like an allstar and chandler played like and borderline allstar.
that and a bunch of role palyers playing out of their minds( jkidd for example was mad udnerrated in that title run) = contender

The Mavs winning was more attributed to team chemistry, they played as a unit, and yes the role players did their jobs, all that means is it is possible given the right players on the team, not necessarily superstar talent. Chemistry is underrated.

[FLDFSU]

Detroit fan here. My squad hasn't been competitive since before the current Miami Heat team was formed. While again, as always, acknowledging it was well within their right to join forces in the manner they did, I felt the James/Wade/Bosh prime team-up was not good for the sake of competition. I was displeased due to overkill.

While James was in Cleveland, even when he was battling my Pistons, I thought he was incredible and it was enjoyable to watch him play. I thought he was a great enough player that I believed his surrounding cast for his last years in Cleveland would be good enough to win a championship - because I felt James could evoke more out of his teammates than anyone I'd seen in my lifetime. He seemed like a total, "We're gonna do this together because I know and believe in your abilities" ball player.

I thought maybe an additional skilled sidekick would have been a wise pickup for Cleveland - like a Chris Bosh or maybe even someone a little less prominent. But James and the Heat went so far in the opposite direction that it seems they didn't just teeter on the line of "Hmm, they could be good enough to win now." Instead, they instantly became NBA Championship foregone conclusions, and that's not really fulfilling for anyone except Miami Heat fans (and again, I cannot blame you guys for enjoying it).

With Kevin Garnett and company in Boston, they always felt beatable and never really gave off an invincible "This isn't even fair" vibe. It could have been due to age. More likely, it was because none of Boston's Big 3 were LeBron James. My thought was, "Alright, LeBron almost led a Mo Williams Cleveland team to 70 wins and a championship. Did he really need to team up with two Dream Teamers and the likes of Shane Battier and Mike Miller?" 'Twas like bringing a rocket launcher to a knife fight.

It may have been overkill, but once BOSTON went there and proceeded to take out the East's three best players one-by-one...Wade, then Lebron, the Howard...ALL bets were off.

What should of happen was Wade, Lebron, and Howard should have joined up and see how much Boston liked getting bounced out of the playoffs by the overkill team. That Boston team was completely unfair to the rest of the East. Can't blame Riley for trying to restore some balance in the Conference.

And once again, BOSTON destroyed the competitiveness of our conference-not Miami.

And it is not fair to James (or Wade or Howard) to ask them to go against a team stacked with HOF and another all-star PG. You are asking Lebron to beat a team 4 times when the next 4 best players on the court is playing for Boston. That is completely unfair.

And about your next point-Lebron's potential sidekick. People were saying that Lebron had a stacked team in Cleveland so even if they had added Chris Bosh (Bosh has said repeatedly that he was NEVER going to sign long term to play in Cleveland), we would have the same exact complains we have today: "Cleveland is the most stacked team of all time with Mo Williams, Chris Bosh, Lebron James, and Anderson. Thank you Lebron for killing the East's competition." Again, people thought that Lebron's Cavs were stacked already.

Now to your next point. I have repeatedly provided links that showed the Heat were NOT even favored to win the Championship in 2011. The Lakers were. The Heat was not even favored to get past Boston when the playoffs started. Stop this false tale that it was a foregone conclusion we would win. The Lakers were favored, and the Heat, a majority, had not even getting to the ECF.

And Boston may not have given off that vibe, but that doesn't excuse their complete and utter dominance of the East, and the rest of the stars in the East. And again, Lebron (and Company) are in the business of winning rings. So yes, they will do WHATEVER it takes to improve their team. There is not some imaginary line with regards to talent they won't past.

If the Heat can get Melo or Durant or Howard--you bet your ass we will try to. And NOBODY on Miami (well except the scrubs that will be replace) will or should have a problem with it. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.

And lastly, let me repeat: Boston, AFTER the formation of the Heat's big three STILL had the MOST all-stars!

Lebron, Wade, and the Heat were completely justified in what they did.

[Roundball_Rock]

Is it wrong for 3 all-stars to play together?

http://cdnimg.visualizeus.com/thumbs/96/07/michael,jordan,photography,pippen,rodman,scottie,p ippen-9607e5fbd55f2f20a4f7395bc071ea61_h.jpg


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-qnOAiwB3tYw/T776sS3JALI/AAAAAAAAADs/CqXrgi-UFw8/s1600/duncan,+parker,+and+ginobili.jpg

http://basket-infos.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/kareem-magic-and-worthy-on-the-sidelines.jpg


http://www.basketballphoto.com/Photos/Big-3-Bird-Parish-Mchale.jpg


The fact is 10 years from now no one will care how Lebron's team was formed. Look at Jordan.

Jordan had:

*The only team with 2 MVP caliber players (Pippen was a MVP contender his one full prime season without MJ. If the NBA allocated MVP's like baseball does Pippen would have been the Eastern conference MVP in 1994. Even in 1996 Pippen was 5th in MVP voting, narrowly behind Hakeem).
*The only team with 3 HOF'ers in/near their prime.
*The GOAT coach.
*The GOAT perimeter defender.
*The best perimeter player of his era outside of MJ.
*The best 6th man.
*The best three point shooter of his era.
*The best rebounder of his era.

Yet people today act as if MJ won it all by himself. :lol The same will happen with Lebron.

How about the 80's Lakers? You had two GOAT candidates on the same team along with another HOF'er in Worthy and other all-star caliber players like Byron Scott.

The 80's Celtics? Bird, McHale, Parish, Johnson, Ainge and Walton?

No one holds their "supporting casts" against Jordan, Kareem and Bird. I see no reason why, once passions have cooled, that people in hindsight will apply a unique standard against Jordan.

[FLDFSU]

As I have said earlier in this thread, I never said the Heat 3 did the wrong thing (I have said many times on this forum that LeBron did the right thing for himself and his brand), however my issue is that if Wade, Bosh and Bron were on seperate teams, it would make the Eastern conference very interesting for the last 3 years, thats all, there is no set age btw.

And if KG, Allen, and Pierce were on separate teams, the East would be even better. The East would have had like 7 competitive teams!

Instead, those bastards tried to take out the competition by joining together and paving the way to the finals.

[Black and White]

And if KG, Allen, and Pierce were on separate teams, the East would be even better. The East would have had like 7 competitive teams!

Instead, those bastards tried to take out the competition by joining together and paving the way to the finals.

They came together as a last hoorah, they didn't expect their careers to last this long, in fact KG was ready to retire, Ray Allens career is still going due to his conditioning and playing a lesser role, at a point in their careers players aren't able to carry the loads they can normally do, PP could not lead his team without another guy at that stage.

[FLDFSU]

With the big 3, you have a Tim Duncan/Dirk situation, they are past their primes (well past their primes) but are so talented that they are still able to produce solid numbers and have adapted well.

Once Rondo became the franchise player, the big 3 struggled to stay healthy to make a real go of things, KGs knees were a constant issue and they spent hours working on him before games.

The Celtics were never considered unbeatable, all series they played were tough (they were down 3-2 to the Hawks for goodness sake), it just so happens that their experience managed to get them that far.

I am not saying the Heat 3 did the wrong thing tho, let me get that clear.

So what's the problem. Wade can't stay healthy either. He couldn't even participate in the Olympics after winning in 2012 because knees were about to explode.

So we are even.

And the Heat weren't viewed as unbeatable too:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/04/13/experts.picks.playoffs/

Will you look at that!! The SAME Boston team is FAVORED to win EVEN with the Heat's big three!

[FLDFSU]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/basketball/nba/04/13/experts.picks.playoffs/

^^^ Link proving the Heat are not viewed as "unbeatable."

The same Boston team you guys have been arguing are past their primes were FAVORED to beat Miami and had 4 all-stars on that team.

This all AFTER Miami formed.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

With the exception of 2011, nobody should care about the "big 3" or "collusion!!1" BS.. LeBron has done all the heavy-lifting for this Miami squad, while Wade and Bosh, who are still very formidable, have fallen off considerably.. Last years postseason, they looked like role players.

[Rake2204]

It may have been overkill, but once BOSTON went there and proceeded to take out the East's three best players one-by-one...Wade, then Lebron, the Howard...ALL bets were off.

What should of happen was Wade, Lebron, and Howard should have joined up and see how much Boston liked getting bounced out of the playoffs by the overkill team. That Boston team was completely unfair to the rest of the East. Can't blame Riley for trying to restore some balance in the Conference.I think we'll just have to agree to disagree there. Three aging all-stars all 30 years or older can still be pretty daunting, but I would not say it was scary enough to precipitate an "all-bets-are-off lets team up one of the top 10 players of all-time with one of the greatest shooting guards of all-time and another Dream Teamer on top of that, who are all either in their direct primes or still very close to it" response.

Like I said, I guess there's not a lot we can do besides say, "Yes they were" and "No they weren't" back and forth. As a Pistons fan, I thought Detroit had a great chance of taking Boston down in the '08 conference finals. I actually thought LeBron was going to take them down a round earlier (while I admit I was a little surprised at Atlanta pushing them to 7 in round 1).

I hate to go back to it, but I think Boston felt more vulnerable than Superfriends Miami because... well... Boston wasn't two current Dream Teamers teamed up with the prime version of one of the greatest five to ten basketball players of all-time.

I do not think Pat Riley restored balance to the Eastern Conference at all. In fact, I think he did the complete opposite. By the time Riley did such a great job of building Mega Team, those Celtics were in their mid-30's and declining. The Heat were incredibly top heavy with legendary talent. The rest of the Eastern Conference, was not. A lot of the issue has been the manner with which they've provided imbalance.


And once again, BOSTON destroyed the competitiveness of our conference-not Miami.Again, I respectfully disagree. I'm not sure I think competitiveness is altogether destroyed (because teams still try very hard to defeat Miami), it's just no one can match the fire power of a full-strength LeBron James, a 60% Dwyane Wade, and Chris Bosh.

For those times you are having this discussion with a Boston fan, I'm not sure the "two wrongs make a right" approach is going to be the most efficient angle to take in this discussion.


And it is not fair to James (or Wade or Howard) to ask them to go against a team stacked with HOF and another all-star PG. You are asking Lebron to beat a team 4 times when the next 4 best players on the court is playing for Boston. That is completely unfair.I actually found those contests much more competitively balanced than most of what I've seen during the Heat run these past few years.


And about your next point-Lebron's potential sidekick. People were saying that Lebron had a stacked team in Cleveland so even if they had added Chris Bosh (Bosh has said repeatedly that he was NEVER going to sign long term to play in Cleveland), we would have the same exact complains we have today: "Cleveland is the most stacked team of all time with Mo Williams, Chris Bosh, Lebron James, and Anderson. Thank you Lebron for killing the East's competition." Again, people thought that Lebron's Cavs were stacked already.I suppose I can only speak for myself on most of this stuff. "People" say everything. Some people may have thought LeBron James had a stacked team then, but it seems "people" now believe that LeBron James had to leave Cleveland because his team was so unbelievably bad.

You're right about Chris Bosh though. He surely seemed to have no interest in coming to Cleveland, though I wonder if that's because the Heat plan was in place over the long term.

Also, I'd have to once again disagree that we'd be hearing the same complaints if Chris Bosh would have come to Cleveland. "Cleveland is the most stacked team of all time with Mo Williams, Chris Bosh, and LeBron James" somehow doesn't have the same ring as "Miami is the most stacked team of all-time with Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and LeBron James". One is not like the other, though I am certain Mo would appreciate the shout out.


Now to your next point. I have repeatedly provided links that showed the Heat were NOT even favored to win the Championship in 2011. The Lakers were. The Heat was not even favored to get past Boston when the playoffs started. Stop this false tale that it was a foregone conclusion we would win. The Lakers were favored, and the Heat, a majority, had not even getting to the ECF.Once again, I can really only speak for myself. I viewed their dominance as a foregone conclusion, and it was. They rolled, even while playing together quite poorly. I'd like to take credit for being right, but figuring that one out wasn't exactly rocket science.

If I recall correctly, the Heat didn't really know how to play off one another their first year. It was just stars trying to awkwardly take turns dominating during games. I would bet that played a good-sized role as to why they were no longer on the media's good side prior to that year's playoffs.

And in truth, I think that might help explain their lopsided power. Those fellers really had no idea how to utilize and execute their system that year. They weren't quite chickens running around with their heads chopped off, but I'm not sure they ever figured out how to play the right way that season either.

Yet, even with all the disjointedness, that club was likely one miraculous Dirk Nowitzki game 2 comeback away from easing to a championship ring off of sheer talent alone. That was kind of my problem. They didn't even have to play particularly well. They just had to exist and it was almost good enough to take everyone down.


If the Heat can get Melo or Durant or Howard--you bet your ass we will try to. And NOBODY on Miami (well except the scrubs that will be replace) will or should have a problem with it. YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAME.That actually raises an interesting point. Is winning truly the only reason we play the game? Is winning the only reason we watch? Is there any point where winning no longer holds the same meaning? I'd venture to say that's where we disagree once again.

For me, winning is not universal. For instance, to play an extreme, I don't roam around looking for teams of fifth graders to defeat in pickup games because "you play to win the game." That's because winning would have no meaning. Me and my fellow basketball playing adults would be stomping out inferior competition. The talent chasm is not that wide in the NBA, but I believe a self-made Dream Team would nearly make it so. If Rondo, Wade, James, Durant, Bosh, and Dwight Howard teamed up, I do not believe winning would hold the same weight. I like when winning is a sign of battle, duking it out against a worthy competitor and emerging on top. At some point of team stacking, that no longer remains so. Where that point is, remains up for discussion.


And lastly, let me repeat: Boston, AFTER the formation of the Heat's big three STILL had the MOST all-stars! I do not believe a team's number of all-stars flatly reflects how dangerous that team may be. For instance, the '98 Lakers had four all-stars, but I do not believe they were better than their own two all-star squad from two year later.

In this case, I find a prime LeBron James (aka a top 10 player of all-time), a near prime Dwyane Wade (one of the greatest shooting guards of all-time) and prime Chris Bosh (perennial 20 & 10 all-star) much more potent than three post-prime all-stars in their mid-30's alongside an upstart all-star point guard. But again, it's all a matter of opinion.

As I said at the start, I think we're just going to be on opposite ends here, and that's okay. It's been a fun discussion.