Landing Spots for Deng and Hayward?

[sammichoffate]

I think they'll be two of the biggest game changers if they leave their respective teams this season. Where do you think they'll end up and for how much?

[JohnFreeman]

Hayward to SAC, Deng to Knicks

[Cocaine80s]

hayward to the bulls if they dont get carmelo

[andremiller07]

Hayward to SAC, Deng to Knicks
:applause:

[Castor Troy]

Which championship calibre team has the most cap space?
Around how much will Deng need to be paid?

I have always liked his game and could help a team get over the hump.

[buddha]

Deng to the Grizz

[sammichoffate]

Deng to the Grizz:cheers:

[Yankstar]

Deng really? :facepalm
He isn't changing s**t for the salary he will get paid. Is is the Joe Johnson of contracts :confusedshrug:

[Xiao Yao You]

Hayward likely staying in Utah.

[JohnMax]

Utah Jazz players are underrated. Al Jefferson and Paul Milsapp were better than people thought.

[Akrazotile]

Both to the Heat along with Gasol

[Haymaker]

Hayward to Boston, Deng to OKC.

[-Lebron23-]

I thought it was common knowledge that Hayward was staying in Utah. He fits Wiggins and Parker's games pretty well so even if they get one of those two, they will most likely keep him IMO.

As for Deng, the trade screwed his value big time. He reportedly walked away from 10mill per year in Chicago IIRC and I don't think he is worth any more than that to be honest.

He will try to find a team stupid enough to give 5 years to an unathletic, injury prone wing with no post game who has averaged nearly 39mpg for the last 4-5 seasons. Atlanta, Charlotte and Dallas are all good fits for him.

I personally hope he goes to the Mavs, his game compliments Dirk's extremely well.

[D-FENS]

Deng to Lakers for MLE type money
Hayward to stay in Utah

[SilkkTheShocker]

Deng is going to get a least 12-15 million a year from someone.

[-Lebron23-]

Deng is going to get a least 12-15 million a year from someone.
I can definitely see Atlanta, Charlotte or Phoenix offering that.

[DukeDelonte13]

Deng is going to get a least 12-15 million a year from someone.


that would be a huge waste. i don't think he's worth more than 10 mill a year. I don't think he's gonna get a 30 million dollar deal like what the bulls offered him.

His performance this year for the cavs was good, i don't think he declined as much as people think he did (obviously he wasn't getting the touches he did in Chicago with no rose) but aside from defense, intelligence, and a good locker room presence he isn't going to add much.


He's a poor shooter and he has a ton of miles logged on that body. Supposedly his achilles injury was a lot worse than people thought.

[SilkkTheShocker]

that would be a huge waste. i don't think he's worth more than 10 mill a year. I don't think he's gonna get a 30 million dollar deal like what the bulls offered him.

His performance this year for the cavs was good, i don't think he declined as much as people think he did (obviously he wasn't getting the touches he did in Chicago with no rose) but aside from defense, intelligence, and a good locker room presence he isn't going to add much.


He's a poor shooter and he has a ton of miles logged on that body. Supposedly his achilles injury was a lot worse than people thought.

Agreed. I always liked his game, but he seemed like a different player away from Chicago after the trade. Any word on Cleveland looking to keep him?

[-Lebron23-]

that would be a huge waste. i don't think he's worth more than 10 mill a year. I don't think he's gonna get a 30 million dollar deal like what the bulls offered him.

His performance this year for the cavs was good, i don't think he declined as much as people think he did (obviously he wasn't getting the touches he did in Chicago with no rose) but aside from defense, intelligence, and a good locker room presence he isn't going to add much.


He's a poor shooter and he has a ton of miles logged on that body. Supposedly his achilles injury was a lot worse than people thought.
Good post, I agree with your view but still think someone will pay him big money if they don't find anyone else to throw it to. He is a good guy to have around young guys developing so he won't be difficult to have in your locker room as he ages.

[DukeDelonte13]

Agreed. I always liked his game, but he seemed like a different player away from Chicago after the trade. Any word on Cleveland looking to keep him?


Literally NOTHING has come out of Cleveland into any of their plans. Nothing on coaching, GM, Deng, Hawes, etc. I highly doubt they want to keep Deng, they need wings than can space the floor and they shouldn't invest too much in Loul.

Personally i like him as a player but his asking price won't be worth it to the cavs. IMO he was really brought in a kind of a pseudo-panic move, Cavs didn't have to take him on, they could have just cut Bynum, but i think they wanted more of a leadership presence in the locker room.

I think he was more or less the same, he just wasn't asked to do as much as he was in chicago.

[BurningHammer]

Raptors need an impact SF. both Deng and Hayward would be a nice fit for another playoff push.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Hayward likely staying in Utah.


Utah never let their white players go.

[Xiao Yao You]

Utah Jazz players are underrated. Al Jefferson and Paul Milsapp were better than people thought.

Jefferson's been getting overrated around here lately. Millsap certainly is.

[pegasus]

If we don't land Melo, I'd want Stephenson, Hayward, or Lowry. No Deng please.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Utah Jazz players are underrated. Al Jefferson and Paul Milsapp were better than people thought.

Other than D-Will obviously

[ProfessorMurder]

Hayward to Boston, Deng to OKC.

I think Boston goes after one of them, not sure which one. Maybe sign and trade involving Jeff Green.

[ralph_i_el]

hayward to boston
Deng back to Chitown

possibly either to the knicks

[DMAVS41]

I'd love Deng on the Mavs, but not at over 10 million. 3 years 27 to 30 million would be the highest we should go.

[beastee]

hayward to boston
Deng back to Chitown

possibly either to the knicks
No way does deng go back to the bulls. He doesn't fit into their needs at all. They would be better off with Heyward if Melo doesnt come. If they cant get either...wait for Love next year.

[Levity]

I like the idea of Hayward on the suns.

1.hes worked with hornacek in the past, and horny really likes him
2. this would give the suns 3 playmakers in the starting line up. each of who can bring up the ball and initiate the offense from anywhere on the court
3. hes not only a good shooter, hes plenty athletic which would fit in great with the suns run and gun offense

[SwishSquared]

I think Hayward personally has Phoenix and Boston as his top two choices. He really likes Hornacek & Stephens and didn't sign an extension b/c he wants to play for either of those 2 teams. I think he does some sort of a S&T.I expect BOS to fully use their treasure trove of picks to do a quick rebuild and Phoenix is looking for more "star" type players.

As far as Deng goes, as previously mentioned, I see Dallas kicking the tires. Potentially Washington if Ariza leaves. Also can see ATL, Charlotte, or Phoenix at the right price. I think his value has tumbled. If he gets 3 years/$30M guaranteed (what CHI offered him), I'd actually be shocked. He has a TON of wear/tear on his body. I see somebody offering 2 years with additional season(s) as team option(s).

[Xiao Yao You]

I like the idea of Hayward on the suns.

1.hes worked with hornacek in the past, and horny really likes him
2. this would give the suns 3 playmakers in the starting line up. each of who can bring up the ball and initiate the offense from anywhere on the court
3. hes not only a good shooter, hes plenty athletic which would fit in great with the suns run and gun offense

He's not really a good shooter though. Streaky at best.


didn't sign an extension b/c he wants to play for either of those 2 teams

Sounds like it was more about him thinking he's worth a lot more money than they offered which was supposedly substantial. I think he had 2nd thoughts about the way he shot this year.


I think he does some sort of a S&T.I expect BOS to fully use their treasure trove of picks to do a quick rebuild and Phoenix is looking for more "star" type players.

If he doesn't want to be in Utah I hope they do trade him. Only way I'd want to overpay him is on a front loaded contract where they give him a lot next year when they have money to spend. Other teams might want to back load it to try and get him.

[SwishSquared]

He's not really a good shooter though. Streaky at best.
I think Hayward shot >= 40% from deep last year and apparently has pretty good mid-range game. He struggled quite a lot this year being more responsible for playmaking duties. That's not really his game now, and Corbin did not do him any favors as they tanked. I think he'll bounce back next season on a more talented team with a better offensive scheme. He also admitted the looming RFA weighed on him this year, I think.


Sounds like it was more about him thinking he's worth a lot more money than they offered which was supposedly substantial. I think he had 2nd thoughts about the way he shot this year.
This was my thought for a good amount of this season, but after thinking about him praise Hornacek in an interview and the fact he still loves Stephens as a coach, I think he gambled he could play his way out of Utah's price range or find a suitable S&T situation that makes sense.

EDIT: Granted I don't think he's ever publicly stated he wants to leave Utah and he has great fan support, but it's uncommon for a young player to give up a big extension. Anyways, I think Utah would rather have an attractive pick and/or young guy than pay him around $12M+/yr (which I think is close to what Utah offered him).

[Relinquish]

If we don't land Melo, I'd want Stephenson, Hayward, or Lowry. No Deng please.

If I were you, I would only want Lowry out of that group. :confusedshrug:

[Genaro]

As a Laker fan I would like Mitch to try to get Monroe or Bledsoe even though I think they're not leaving their teams.
Hayward would be a good sign, Deng no way. He will be overpayed somewhere though.

[RichieW]

I really like Deng to Atlanta. Great coach and Horford coming back gives them

Teague
Korver
Deng
Millsap
Horford

Lacking some defence, but if they only spend

[Quizno]

hayward's probably gonna stay on the jazz but i'd love for the charlotte bobcats i mean HORNETS to get him as their starting SF

[Xiao Yao You]

I think Hayward shot >= 40% from deep last year and apparently has pretty good mid-range game. He struggled quite a lot this year being more responsible for playmaking duties.

He struggled from being a go to guy and the delusion he apparently has that he can be a go to guy. He's fine as a playmaker. Yes he did shoot good from deep last year and if you look at his career he has been up and down from deep. Streaky like I said.


That's not really his game now, and Corbin did not do him any favors as they tanked.

Not Corbin's decision.


I think he'll bounce back next season on a more talented team with a better offensive scheme. He also admitted the looming RFA weighed on him this year, I think.

It did because he was probably regretting the money he gave up.


This was my thought for a good amount of this season, but after thinking about him praise Hornacek in an interview and the fact he still loves Stephens as a coach, I think he gambled he could play his way out of Utah's price range or find a suitable S&T situation that makes sense.

He played himself down if anything. He's close with Jeremy Evans and makes a lot of sense in Utah. They can match any offer.


EDIT: Granted I don't think he's ever publicly stated he wants to leave Utah and he has great fan support, but it's uncommon for a young player to give up a big extension. Anyways, I think Utah would rather have an attractive pick and/or young guy than pay him around $12M+/yr (which I think is close to what Utah offered him).

First we don't know how much the extension was for and I don't think it's that uncommon not to sign an extension. Utah has plenty of picks and young guys. They need to keep him unless he says he wants out or someone gives him a Batum like deal. I certainly hope they don't overpay for him unless it is just the first year.

[SwishSquared]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html
If you look @ his 3PT%, it's more down than up. He only took 74 his rookie year, then shot 34.6% on like 80 more attempts his 2nd year, then 41.5% last season while increasing 3PA by 87. He again went down this year while slightly increasing attempts. Inconsistent, as you said, but his volume is increasing quite a lot.

He struggled from being a go to guy and the delusion he apparently has that he can be a go to guy. He's fine as a playmaker. Yes he did shoot good from deep last year and if you look at his career he has been up and down from deep. Streaky like I said.

I honestly think the mental fatigue from contract year and increased duties as primary ballhandler (including playmaking abilities) hurt his shooting. He actually admitted this. I don't think it's his fault in becoming this first option. Keep in mind he had a low-post beast in Jefferson last year and a solid PF in Millsap attracting attention. When surrounded by talent that created space, he shot well from 3. Burke, Burcs, Williams, Jefferson, Kanter, and Favors don't exactly command the offensive attention those other 2 guys did.

Not Corbin's decision.
Sure, but he also made Hayward the #1 option. Both guys played the cards their were dealt, but Corbin didn't do much to help maximize his little talent.

First we don't know how much the extension was for and I don't think it's that uncommon not to sign an extension. Utah has plenty of picks and young guys. They need to keep him unless he says he wants out or someone gives him a Batum like deal. I certainly hope they don't overpay for him unless it is just the first year.
sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--jazz--gordon-hayward-far-apart-in-extension-talks-202627935.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--after-failing-to-reach-deal-with-jazz--gordon-hayward-will-become-restricted-free-agent-next-summer-203525904.html
Had $40M/4 years offered and he was asking for at least $50M/4 years.
He's considered one of the best players of his draft class and it's pretty uncommon for that caliber of playing to turn down a guaranteed 8-figure annual salary. Lesser players don't get that type of extension.

He played himself down if anything. He's close with Jeremy Evans and makes a lot of sense in Utah. They can match any offer.
That may be true, but you're speaking with hindsight. Last summer, he probably thought he could play himself above $10M/yr. It was a miscalculation. Not comparing him to James Harden, but he got traded an hour after refusing OKC's final contract offer. I know Utah wants to keep Hayward, but it's not often a guy gambles like that and the team is fine heading to RFA. They do retain the right to match, but he's def not worth the $$$ he's been demanding. I wouldn't be surprised if Utah would rather have a S&T to not tie up its finances in Hayward/Favors, guys most people would say aren't true franchise players.

I think he wants to be on a team that wins instead of still rebuilding. I'm just guessing he wants out. Could totally be wrong.

[SamuraiSWISH]

We gave away Deng for literally nothing. Not that I liked him or anything. But when managment refuses to package him for Kobe in 2007, Melo in 2011, and countless other potential franchise caliber players it really pisses me off. Same thing with Noah now. Our franchise never learns. If it wasn't for Jesus in Nikes being drafted by Rod Thorn, our franchise would've been shit for decades.

[Xiao Yao You]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/haywago01.html
If you look @ his 3PT%, it's more down than up. He only took 74 his rookie year, then shot 34.6% on like 80 more attempts his 2nd year, then 41.5% last season while increasing 3PA by 87. He again went down this year while slightly increasing attempts. Inconsistent, as you said, but his volume is increasing quite a lot.

I honestly think the mental fatigue from contract year and increased duties as primary ballhandler (including playmaking abilities) hurt his shooting. He actually admitted this.

While being quoted on at least a couple occasions of saying he can be a go to guy. Either he's talking himself up or he's delusional.


I don't think it's his fault in becoming this first option. Keep in mind he had a low-post beast in Jefferson last year and a solid PF in Millsap attracting attention. When surrounded by talent that created space, he shot well from 3. Burke, Burcs, Williams, Jefferson, Kanter, and Favors don't exactly command the offensive attention those other 2 guys did.

No but Burks, Kanter and Burke are scorers. Hayward can score but it should come naturally not forced as it was this year.


Sure, but he also made Hayward the #1 option. Both guys played the cards their were dealt, but Corbin didn't do much to help maximize his little talent.

Hard to do with no NBA caliber starting pg and only one rotation caliber pg.


I wouldn't be surprised if Utah would rather have a S&T to not tie up its finances in Hayward/Favors, guys most people would say aren't true franchise players.

Favors isn't being paid as a franchise player. He is currently their franchise player because of his deal but it's not a max deal. They'll keep Hayward unless he wants out or gets a ridiculous offer(which I'm afraid they might match).


I think he wants to be on a team that wins instead of still rebuilding. I'm just guessing he wants out. Could totally be wrong.

Like those big winners in Boston and Phoenix? He says he's a go to guy and thinks he should be getting paid like one. He isn't getting that on a contender.

[SwishSquared]

Like those big winners in Boston and Phoenix? He says he's a go to guy and thinks he should be getting paid like one. He isn't getting that on a contender.
Phoenix is quite a lot better than Utah and should be right in the hunt for playoffs once more. Prior to Bledsoe injury, they were #6 seed. PJ Tucker, although a solid 3&D guy, is also a RFA and not the offensive threat Hayward is; Hayward would improve Phoenix offensively. They'd play 3 capable passers at once and he'd play for a coach he likes. Sounds better than Utah to me. Not to mention either very low or no state income taxes (believe it is the latter).

Boston will either trade Rondo and truly blow it up or use their multitude of picks to acquire talent and build a winner. A few posts back I mentioned BOS using their plethora of picks this summer to facilitate a quick rebuild. I think they go that route and Hayward can be part of that. Playing on a good team in a weaker conference with your favorite coach? Not a bad situation.

It's all conjecture, mate- he either stays via Utah matching or by signing whatever offer the Jazz give them or he wants out. I'm guessing he wants out, that's all. I said I thought he thought could play himself out of Utah's price range or could leave via S&T. He gambled, which happens.

Hard to do with no NBA caliber starting pg and only one rotation caliber pg.I get it, you think he couldn't coach without talent (I respect this opinion). That to an extent is true. But if you have the 3 scorers you mentioned, Hayward should in theory be able to play off the ball? Coaches draw up sets to get guys open looks off the ball. I said he was a good option as a shooter. If there's no movement whatsoever and you have up to 4 guys capable of scoring on the floor at once (Corbin did play Burke-Burcs-GH-Kanter together), then the coach needs to make sets to get a guy open. I mean Brad Stephens made Jordan Crawford (with Phil Pressey as his back-up while Rondo still rehabbed) look like a starting-caliber NBA point guard enough this season to get draft picks for the guy in a trade. It's doable.

Favors isn't being paid as a franchise player. He is currently their franchise player because of his deal but it's not a max deal. They'll keep Hayward unless he wants out or gets a ridiculous offer(which I'm afraid they might match).
I think Favors' deal is the largest extension in terms of per-year salary they've given to a player since DWill & Booz. Those guys were their franchise cornerstones. I wouldn't tie up nearly $25M/yr in Favors/Hayward without a true #1 in place. A guy like J. Parker can be that after this draft, but that's paying a lot while waiting for the rookie to develop.

Good convo :cheers:

[Mass Debator]

Deng's going to reunite with his bro in Minny.

[Xiao Yao You]

Phoenix is quite a lot better than Utah and should be right in the hunt for playoffs once more. Prior to Bledsoe injury, they were #6 seed. PJ Tucker, although a solid 3&D guy, is also a RFA and not the offensive threat Hayward is; Hayward would improve Phoenix offensively. They'd play 3 capable passers at once and he'd play for a coach he likes. Sounds better than Utah to me. Not to mention either very low or no state income taxes (believe it is the latter).

Utah was basically a .500 team in the middle of the year. They could just be an off-season away from being Phoenix not to mention the fact that Bledsoe is also a RFA that could be gone. Hayward would improve any team I'd imagine. He played for a coach he liked in Utah as far as I know.


Boston will either trade Rondo and truly blow it up or use their multitude of picks to acquire talent and build a winner. A few posts back I mentioned BOS using their plethora of picks this summer to facilitate a quick rebuild. I think they go that route and Hayward can be part of that. Playing on a good team in a weaker conference with your favorite coach? Not a bad situation.

Jazz have 3 of the first 35 picks themselves. Obviously being in the west makes things a bit tougher but the Jazz young Jazz players have actually been part of wining already in their short careers.


It's all conjecture, mate- he either stays via Utah matching or by signing whatever offer the Jazz give them or he wants out. I'm guessing he wants out, that's all. I said I thought he thought could play himself out of Utah's price range or could leave via S&T. He gambled, which happens.
I get it, you think he couldn't coach without talent (I respect this opinion). That to an extent is true. But if you have the 3 scorers you mentioned, Hayward should in theory be able to play off the ball?

He's the best play maker of them.


Coaches draw up sets to get guys open looks off the ball. I said he was a good option as a shooter. If there's no movement whatsoever and you have up to 4 guys capable of scoring on the floor at once (Corbin did play Burke-Burcs-GH-Kanter together)

Not much


, then the coach needs to make sets to get a guy open. I mean Brad Stephens made Jordan Crawford (with Phil Pressey as his back-up while Rondo still rehabbed) look like a starting-caliber NBA point guard enough this season to get draft picks for the guy in a trade. It's doable.

in the east it is anyway


I think Favors' deal is the largest extension in terms of per-year salary they've given to a player since DWill & Booz. Those guys were their franchise cornerstones. I wouldn't tie up nearly $25M/yr in Favors/Hayward without a true #1 in place. A guy like J. Parker can be that after this draft, but that's paying a lot while waiting for the rookie to develop.

Good convo :cheers:

I'd rather have Favors than Boozer any day. Boozer signed as a free agent not an extension.

[SwishSquared]

Utah was basically a .500 team in the middle of the year. They could just be an off-season away from being Phoenix not to mention the fact that Bledsoe is also a RFA that could be gone. Hayward would improve any team I'd imagine. He played for a coach he liked in Utah as far as I know.

It would be great for Utah to accomplish this. I unfortunately don't think they'll be in play-off hunt next season, simply because they don't have as many quality pieces as Phoenix currently does. Don't forget, Phoenix has 3 of the first 27 picks and has cap space to improve. Bledsoe is RFA, but they publicly have said they'll match any offer (I expect they'll even match the max). Would take some wiggling, but I think even if that (Bled getting max) occurs, they can still get Hayward on a pretty good deal. I can't really comment on Utah playing .500 ball simply b/c I honestly thought they weren't good all year. I looked at their schedule this year and saw roughly .500 ball in 2 week stretch in December through Febr. That's great, but in November and March-April they were pitiful.

Not much
Those 4 guys played all at once in the 6th most used lineup Utah trotted out (out of 20) . I personally don't think Kanter is a starting-caliber big, and the Burke-Burcs-Hayward lineup was used in their 3rd most used lineup. Both lineups were mostly net negative offensively according to http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2014/lineups/

I'd rather have Favors than Boozer any day. Boozer signed as a free agent not an extension.
Good point, my bad on the Boozer contract. Still, is nearly making prime Boozer money, who was one of a handful of 20/10 big men in the NBA at time. Prime Booz was a great scorer with post moves and nice touch, until he tore his quad (then he only shot Js). Favors is better defensive player no question, but Favors isn't a great offensive threat. Favors is nearly making Ibaka $$$, which makes him overpaid imo. Ibaka led league in mid range FG% last season.

in the east it is anyway
Did you see Boston's roster? They were #3 seed at one point in East. Stephens > Corbin. I'm sorry, but if you think that was not a good coaching job and are slighting Stephens for being in the East, that's a little ridic. Crawford was on way out of the league and Pressey is not really an NBA rotation PG. Corbin simply decided not to do much with what he had. They had a nice stretch for about 2.5 months, but offensively it's not like he did much to put team in position to compete. You said yourself he had little to work with, so that's why there weren't great O sets

[Xiao Yao You]

It would be great for Utah to accomplish this. I unfortunately don't think they'll be in play-off hunt next season, simply because they don't have as many quality pieces as Phoenix currently does. Don't forget, Phoenix has 3 of the first 27 picks and has cap space to improve.

And Jazz 3 of the top 35 with one more likely higher than any Phoenix has.


Bledsoe is RFA, but they publicly have said they'll match any offer (I expect they'll even match the max).

Jazz have said the same about Hayward. Doesn't mean it will happen or should. The fact that they already have Dragic they'd have to think long and hard about giving him the max.


Would take some wiggling, but I think even if that (Bled getting max) occurs, they can still get Hayward on a pretty good deal. I can't really comment on Utah playing .500 ball simply b/c I honestly thought they weren't good all year. I looked at their schedule this year and saw roughly .500 ball in 2 week stretch in December through Febr. That's great, but in November and March-April they were pitiful.

They were hurt to start the year and sucked to end the year with a tougher schedule.


Those 4 guys played all at once in the 6th most used lineup Utah trotted out (out of 20) . I personally don't think Kanter is a starting-caliber big

Remains to be seen. Offensively he certainly is.


, and the Burke-Burcs-Hayward lineup was used in their 3rd most used lineup. Both lineups were mostly net negative offensively according to http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2014/lineups/

Good point, my bad on the Boozer contract. Still, is nearly making prime Boozer money, who was one of a handful of 20/10 big men in the NBA at time. Prime Booz was a great scorer with post moves and nice touch, until he tore his quad (then he only shot Js).

He always loved the J. Problem with him was lack of D and always being hurt.


Favors is better defensive player no question, but Favors isn't a great offensive threat. Favors is nearly making Ibaka $$$, which makes him overpaid imo. Ibaka led league in mid range FG% last season.

He hasn't been paid yet! We'll see how much better he gets with a new coach and some more pieces around him. He's looked great at times.


Did you see Boston's roster? They were #3 seed at one point in East.

In the east says it all. Jazz would have won a lot more games playing in that conference too.


Stephens > Corbin. I'm sorry, but if you think that was not a good coaching job and are slighting Stephens for being in the East, that's a little ridic.

Wasn't paying that much attention. I think the Jazz have overachieved under Corbin personally. Playoffs in the west with a team revolving around Al? Just missed it the next year. One NBA pg this year and not a starting caliber one at that. They were very competitive in the middle of the year with a squad that was built to tank.


Crawford was on way out of the league and Pressey is not really an NBA rotation PG. Corbin simply decided not to do much with what he had. They had a nice stretch for about 2.5 months, but offensively it's not like he did much to put team in position to compete. You said yourself he had little to work with, so that's why there weren't great O sets

[SwishSquared]

And Jazz 3 of the top 35 with one more likely higher than any Phoenix has.
Yes, the Jazz lotto pick is top 4 guaranteed and Phoenix's best pick is likely going to be #14. However, Phoenix has 4 picks in top 40. Two are "worse" than Utah's and two are "better." My argument has been that Phoenix is likely to package picks to trade for an impact player. That just makes the franchise more attractive to FAs or trade targets if they add more talent. Utah's likely to keep its lotto pick and be less aggressive with trades (aka traditional rebuild as we both know).


Jazz have said the same about Hayward. Doesn't mean it will happen or should. The fact that they already have Dragic they'd have to think long and hard about giving him the max
Credible sources have reported Utah doesn't want to match max. Phoenix will match any offer short of a "godfather S&T scenario." Bledsoe is top 10 PG and a top 5 defensive guard that had an All-Star caliber year in his first season as a starter. He'll get paid with the season he had.

They were hurt to start the year and sucked to end the year with a tougher schedule.

This team went into the tank starting last FA period, so it was expected they'd be bad. Don't really buy the injury thing b/c wasn't Burke the only injured starter? You said he's not starting-quality and his back-up was bad. Sure it hurts, but if you're relying on a rookie to lead the ship right off the bat from a historically weak draft, the coach has to do something creative. Stephens made a chucker into a tradeworthy asset as a PG. My contention has been they weren't competitive for most of season. At least some other tanking teams stayed somewhat competitive in games (like Boston did). Building a culture of losing is potentially toxic (see Cleveland post-LBJ).

He always loved the J. Problem with him was lack of D and always being hurt.
In 6 seasons in Utah he played in 74+ games 3 seasons, 51 games in 1 season, and less than half twice. Injury-riddled, but mostly healthy for 4 years. Nearly averaged 20/10 in his healthy campaigns. They made a WCF playing Boozer-Okur heavy minutes together. His D is bad, but was ok prior to his quad/thigh injuries. He scored in post those days, dove to rim in PnRs, and was more aggressive in paint. He only started shootings those mid range Js a majority of time after that injury.

He hasn't been paid yet! We'll see how much better he gets with a new coach and some more pieces around him. He's looked great at times.
Link I posted a couple posts back showed his extension, which he signed in October. Was for 4 years and up to $47M. Ibaka got $50M/4 years. Boozer's Utah deal was for $11.33M/yr. Favors has been worse than both of those guys concerning overall production and will need immense offensive improvements to match Ibaka's 2-way impact. Certainly possible, though improbably imo.

In the east says it all. Jazz would have won a lot more games playing in that conference too.

You said Favors would improve with new scheme/coach. I am guessing that means you believe Corbin will be replaced? Switch Corbin and Stephens this season, and Boston never gets to #3 seed at any point, Crawford doesn't get traded, and Boston would probably challenge Philly for #2 in tank-rank. I don't think anymore of Corbin now than I did when he was hired. He didn't do anything significant playoffs-related (swept badly at hands of Spurs just once). I also don't believe it's an accident that Millsap and Big Al both had career years for first-time head coaches this past season after leaving. You can argue their usage rate increased, but Big Al is an All-NBA C this year and Millsap blitzed teams playing in Coach Bud's Spurs-lite system.

Remains to be seen. Offensively he certainly is.
Kanter is a poor-man's Pek and that's essentially his ceiling due to his lack of athletic ability. He can score down low but is terrible defensively. Lineups that got statistically significant minutes this season featuring Kanter would lead league in worst points differential. He can't play with Favors until one of them develops a consistent jumper. That could be either of them, but even so, that combo defensively has not worked for most part.

EDIT: We can keep this up, but it's almost fruitless, mate. All I did was originally say Hayward may want out lol. No offense, but you didn't realize Favors' contract, Bledsoe vs. Hayward alleged contract details, brushed off clear indications Corbin was subpar, vaguely ignored stats, slighted Stephens' abilities, and blamed Hayward for being #1 option when the coach made him "the guy" and didn't help him strategically. There's a lot of stuff I can regurgitate, but this is getting long. Good convo, hope everything works out for your team!
:cheers:

[nightprowler10]

Deng to Lakers for MLE type money
Hayward to stay in Utah
This NBA 2K hath predicted so many years ago.