Has John Wall surpassed Kyrie Irving?

[chris02jammers]

With all the hype that we are hearing about Kyrie that he got the sickest handles in the league but it never translate to something more productive. Cavs are in the lottery again. John Wall is under the radar for most of the people but look where are they now... Second Round of the Play Offs.

John Wall >>>>>>>>> Kyrie Irving

[plowking]

He always was better.

[chris02jammers]

but people and fans are always talking about Kyrie, like he was super clutch in the 4th. and last All Star Game more accolades and praises for Kyrie... He did nothing extra ordinary other than having sick handles

[CelticBaller]

I always believed in wall

[Wally450]

Kyrie on the Wizards would be sick. I'm a Kyrie stan.

[Yankstar]

Kyrie on the Wizards would be sick. I'm a Kyrie stan.

Sick of not making the playoffs or first round exists? :roll:

[chris02jammers]

Sick of not making the playoffs or first round exists? :roll:
lol hahahaha :roll: :roll: :roll:

:applause: :applause:

[LosBulls]

Will be bumping this thread in the future.

Kyrie > Wall

[UtahJazzFan88]

Kyrie has flash but who's team is in the 2nd round of the playoffs...

[Yankstar]

Will be bumping this thread in the future.

Kyrie > Wall

Wall = young wade, I'm calling it :rockon:

[alexd]

With all the hype that we are hearing about Kyrie that he got the sickest handles in the league but it never translate to something more productive. Cavs are in the lottery again. John Wall is under the radar for most of the people but look where are they now... Second Round of the Play Offs.

John Wall >>>>>>>>> Kyrie Irving
kyrie has that streetball handles.what I mean by that,he dribbles mainly left and right.its more dazzling that way but not always affective.wall has that explosion and dribbles front and back which is the right way to dribble
sure kyrie is a better and more skilled scorer,but wall is much more athletic,a better point guard and a better defender by a huge margin

[scott0326]

Will be bumping this thread in the future.

Kyrie > Wall
Good bump. Let's compare Irving and Walls playoff stats... Oh wait

[Relinquish]

Wall has been pretty awful shooting the ball this postseason, but his assist to turnover ratio has been fantastic. Hopefully the hero ball choke is behind him and he can have a great game in two nights. :applause:

[Yankstar]

Wall has been pretty awful shooting the ball this postseason, but his assist to turnover ratio has been fantastic. Hopefully the hero ball choke is behind him and he can have a great game in two nights. :applause:

He needs to be a slasher like wade and practice the mid range J. He is basically young wade anyways :applause:

[Kingwillball]

Irving a WAAAY better offensive player.

[kc16]

He always was better.
Agreed with this since the comparison started, nothing against Irving but he is nothing but a flashy player.

[Solid Snake]

I'd take Kyrie 10 times out of 10. Wall has terrible basketball IQ, and I appreciate "non-hood" and "non-thuggish" players more than gutter trash.

[Yankstar]

I'd take Kyrie 10 times out of 10. Wall has terrible basketball IQ, and I appreciate "non-hood" and "non-thuggish" players more than gutter trash.

Borderline racist :facepalm

[hawksdogsbraves]

I'd take Kyrie 10 times out of 10. Wall has terrible basketball IQ, and I appreciate "non-hood" and "non-thuggish" players more than gutter trash.

Wall definitely has a much lower real life IQ than Irving, but I'd argue that his basketball IQ is better. He's a much better passer and has much better court vision.

[Kingwillball]

Put a healthy/ motivated Irving on a Playoff team and his star would rise. He is one of the top 3 all around offensive PG's in the league.

[Relinquish]

I'd take Kyrie 10 times out of 10. Wall has terrible basketball IQ, and I appreciate "non-hood" and "non-thuggish" players more than gutter trash.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Relinquish]

Wall definitely has a much lower real life IQ than Irving, but I'd argue that his basketball IQ is better. He's a much better passer and has much better court vision.

Are you dumb? Wall had a 3.8 GPA in high school and a 3.7 in college. :biggums:

[Yankstar]

Are you dumb? Wall had a 3.8 GPA in high school and a 3.7 in college. :biggums:

Guys, guys lets just all agree they are both way smarter then D rose :roll:

[MC Gusto]

When was Kyrie ever ahead of John Wall in the first place?

[MC Gusto]

Sick of not making the playoffs or first round exists? :roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[MC Gusto]

Put a healthy/ motivated Irving on a Playoff team and his star would rise. He is one of the top 3 all around offensive PG's in the league.
If it were that easy, or if he were that good, his own team would be a playoff team.

[Relinquish]

Guys, guys lets just all agree they are both way smarter then D rose :roll:

D Rose has worn a suit and tie at least 150 times now to games and still can't even tie his tie properly :roll:

[SwishSquared]

Wall's defense makes him better in my book, right now at least. Irving can shoot better off the dribble & has more range, but Wall's made some huge strides (his elbow J has improved a lot since he first entered the league). Although Irving's supporting cast is much worse, I feel Wall is more of a natural play-maker. He generated the most corner 3 opportunities in the league this year amongst PGs, I believe.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Are you dumb? Wall had a 3.8 GPA in high school and a 3.7 in college. :biggums:

Hey I love Wall and am a Kentucky supporter, but have you heard an interview with the dude? I don't care what kind of grades he got taking the 'sports sciences' classes they let the basketball players take at UK. In fact most of those kids get good grades and I assure you not all of them are the sharpest guys around. It's in UK and Cal's best interest to have them get good grades.

[DoodleDa]

Why do people bring up Kyrie as if he's still relevant? Talented scorer, but way too ball-dominant and plays absolutely no defense.

I don't even consider Kyrie a top 10 PG anymore.

[dc_chilling]

I'd take Kyrie 10 times out of 10. Wall has terrible basketball IQ, and I appreciate "non-hood" and "non-thuggish" players more than gutter trash.

Kyrie can't figure out how to get a squad of top lottery picks to play as a team and Wall has a terrible basketball IQ?

The Cavs had two 1st picks and two 6th picks in the last three drafts, recieved Luol Deng from Chicago, and are back in the lottery again.

Walls team, on the other hand, could easily be playing in the ECF in a couple weeks.

[RedBlackAttack]

It seems there is no middle ground for Kyrie. He went from completely underrated in the first few months of his rookie year when very few people were recognizing how good he was right out of the gates, to overrated after his second season/Olympics/etc., to back to being completely underrated again.

Barely average? :oldlol:

I watched teams, every night, designing their entire defensive gameplan around trying to slow him down offensively this past season. He regressed in a couple areas (scoring efficiency), improved in others (turnovers, playmaking, defense). And, the Cavs increased their win total from the year before by +11 games, even with the first half of the season wasted on trying to build an offense around Andrew Bynum.

He still just turned 22 and is playing on the second youngest roster in the league. Also, compare Wall's third season in the league to Kyrie's third season.

Why do people act as if these guys are on the same level in terms of experience in the league and age? They're not.

[andremiller07]

Isaiah Thomas is a better guy to match up Irving with Wall is on another level it's not close atm.

[RedBlackAttack]

Isaiah Thomas is a better guy to match up Irving with Wall is on another level it's not close atm.
You are out of your gord. :oldlol:

It's apparent every time they match up with one another that Irving and Wall are incredibly close. The Cavs and Wizards played four times this season and split, 2-2.


Nov. 16 - Cavs win
Kyrie Irving - 41 points (14-28 FG, 9-9 FT, 4-7 3PT), 5 assists, 4 rebounds
John Wall - 9 points (3-13 FG, 3-3 FT, 0-3 3PT), 12 assists, 2 rebounds

Nov. 20 - Wiz win
Kyrie Irving - 28 points (9-14 FG, 7-7 FT, 3-4 3PT), 6 assists, 0 rebounds
John Wall - 15 points (6-16 FG, 3-3 FT, 0-1 3PT), 10 assists, 4 rebounds

Feb. 7 - Cavs win
Kyrie Irving - 23 points (5-11 FG, 13-13 FT, 0-2 3PT), 12 assists, 3 rebounds
John Wall - 32 points (10-19 FG, 10-12 FT, 2-4 3PT), 10 assists, 5 rebounds

Feb. 22 - Wiz win
Kyrie Irving - 15 points (6-17 FG, 2-2 FT, 1-5 3PT), 5 assists, 5 rebounds
John Wall - 21 points (8-18 FG, 2-4 FT, 3-6 3PT), 9 assists, 3 rebounds


It's amazing how a team finally coming together and figuring out how to win at a decent clip can alter perception of two players. As always, the perceived "franchise player" gets too much praise when things are going well and too much blame when they aren't. The pendalum will swing back the other way when Kyrie and the Cavs start figuring it out.

The Wizards had more of a naturally cohesive, veteran team and that, along with Wall being in his 4th season, is why that team is where they are right now and the Cavs are where they are.

I'd be interested in seeing how Wall would perform on a team that relies on so many young players. Four of the top seven guys in the Cavs' rotation were under 23 this year, and Kyrie was just 21... that includes three starters who were 22 or under.

Meanwhile, Wall has one of the better veteran frontcourts in the league, and a great fit SF in veteran Webster.

Completely different circumstances.

[andremiller07]

You are out of your gord. :oldlol:

It's apparent every time they match up with one another that Irving and Wall are incredibly close. The Cavs and Wizards played four times this season and split, 2-2.


Nov. 16 - Cavs win
Kyrie Irving - 41 points (14-28 FG, 9-9 FT, 4-7 3PT), 5 assists, 4 rebounds
John Wall - 9 points (3-13 FG, 3-3 FT, 0-3 3PT), 12 assists, 2 rebounds

Nov. 20 - Wiz win
Kyrie Irving - 28 points (9-14 FG, 7-7 FT, 3-4 3PT), 6 assists, 0 rebounds
John Wall - 15 points (6-16 FG, 3-3 FT, 0-1 3PT), 10 assists, 4 rebounds

Feb. 7 - Cavs win
Kyrie Irving - 23 points (5-11 FG, 13-13 FT, 0-2 3PT), 12 assists, 3 rebounds
John Wall - 32 points (10-19 FG, 10-12 FT, 2-4 3PT), 10 assists, 5 rebounds

Feb. 22 - Wiz win
Kyrie Irving - 15 points (6-17 FG, 2-2 FT, 1-5 3PT), 5 assists, 5 rebounds
John Wall - 21 points (8-18 FG, 2-4 FT, 3-6 3PT), 9 assists, 3 rebounds


It's amazing how a team finally coming together and figuring out how to win at a decent clip can alter perception of two players. As always, the perceived "franchise player" always gets too much praise when things are going well and too much blame when they aren't.

The Wizards had more of a naturally cohesive, veteran team and that, along with Wall being in his 4th season, is why that team is where they are right now and the Cavs are where they are.

I'd be interested in seeing how Wall would perform on a team that relies on so many young players. Four of the top seven guys in the Cavs' rotation were under 23 this year, and Kyrie was just 21... that includes three starters who were 22 or under.

Completely different circumstances.
Isaia Thomas owns John Wall and Irving most the time in the last two seasons as well statistically but does not make him a better player than either.

[RedBlackAttack]

Isaia Thomas owns John Wall and Irving most the time in the last two seasons as well statistically but does not make him a better player than either.
Isaiah Thomas is an excellent young player and probably shouldn't take a backseat to anyone, though I would challenge you on the fact that defenses' 1st goal any time they play the Cavaliers is to contain Irving. Teams trapped him all over the floor and tried to filter him to the areas of the floor he's least efficient/effective. Everyone else on the floor was a secondary concern, to say the least.

I doubt that's the case with Thomas, who has a monster in the middle of the floor teams have to deal with first and foremost. But, yeah... Thomas had a really good season.

And, despite the defensive attention, Irving still averaged 21 points per game and had his best Assist/TO ratio of his career (and also best team record so far).


As for the Wizards in 2013-14...

Gortat and Nene are absolutely pivotal to the Wizards' success this season. Meanwhile, the Cavs have guys all over the floor and all over the bench trying to figure it out as they go along. Really, their only veterans on the team were Varejao, Deng and Jack -- and only Andy was really a good fit.

The Wiz are just way ahead of the Cavs in terms of their development.


Starters this past season (age):

Cavs
PG - Kyrie Irving (21)
SG - Dion Waiters (22)
SF - Alonzo Gee (25); Luol Deng (28)
PF - Tristan Thompson (22)
C - Spencer Hawes (25); Andrew Bynum (25); Anderson Varejao (29)


Wizards
PG - John Wall (23)
SG - Brad Beal (20)
SF - Martell Webster (27)
PF - Marcin Gortat (30)
C - Nene (31)


The Wiz are older and more experienced at just about every position outside of SG, and both of those guys are/were in their second seasons. It's easy to put all of the blame for the Cavs "just" improving by 11 games on Kyrie when he's being asked to lead a team this young.

[Leftimage]

With all the hype that we are hearing about Kyrie that he got the sickest handles in the league but it never translate to something more productive. Cavs are in the lottery again. John Wall is under the radar for most of the people but look where are they now... Second Round of the Play Offs.

John Wall >>>>>>>>> Kyrie Irving

John Wall is a beast. Longer to develop but higher ceiling imo. BBIQ is where it's at.

[andremiller07]

Isaiah Thomas is an excellent young player and probably shouldn't take a backseat to anyone, though I would challenge you on the fact that defenses' 1st goal any time they play the Cavaliers is to contain Irving. Teams trapped him all over the floor and tried to filter him to the areas of the floor he's least efficient/effective.

I doubt that's the case with Thomas, who has a monster in the middle of the floor teams have to deal with first and foremost.

But, yeah... Thomas had a really good season.


Gortat and Nene are absolutely pivotal to the Wizards' success this season. Meanwhile, the Cavs have guys all over the floor and all over the bench trying to figure it out as they go along. Really, their only veterans on the team were Varejao, Deng and Jack -- and only Andy was really a good fit.

The Wiz are just way ahead of the Cavs in terms of their development.


Starters this past season:

Cavs
PG - Kyrie Irving (21)
SG - Dion Waiters (22)
SF - Alonzo Gee (25); Luol Deng (28)
PF - Tristan Thompson (22)
C - Andrew Bynum (25); Anderson Varejao (29)


Wizards
PG - John Wall (23)
SG - Brad Beal (20)
SF - Martell Webster (27)
PF - Marcin Gortat (30)
C - Nene (31)


The Wiz are more older and more experienced at just about every position outside of SG, and both of those guys are/were in their second seasons. It's easy to put all of the blame for the Cavs "just" improving by 11 games on Kyrie when he's being asked to lead a team this young.
I understand that the Wizards are a better team but to me Thomas/Irivng are both in that same mold (AT this point in time) of talented scorer and nothing else really and while both had good season's I just don't feel like they impact the game all that much. Not saying Irving can't get better but as a all round player John Wall right now is well ahead to me.

I like more complete PG's so maybe I'm bias in that sense

[RedBlackAttack]

I understand that the Wizards are a better team but to me Thomas/Irivng are both in that same mold (AT this point in time) of talented scorer and nothing else really and while both had good season's I just don't feel like they impact the game all that much. Not saying Irving can't get better but as a all round player John Wall right now is well ahead to me.

I like more complete PG's so maybe I'm bias in that sense
Wall averages more assists, but also far more turnovers per game than Irving. You'd probably be surprised at how close they are in terms of A/TO ratio. Irving took the first and a really big step to becoming a more consistent playmaker this season, and that was to cut out the careless turnovers. It's still something that Wall struggles with.

He also has a severe lack of shooters surrounding him. In his first 10 games with Spencer Hawes in the lineup, Kyrie's assists shot through the roof. A lack of outside shooting (outside of Irving) was a real problem for the Cavs this past season. When you're kicking the ball out to Alonzo Gee, Earl Clark and even Luol Deng, the results normally will not be pretty. Tristan Thompson can't make a shot outside of five feet.

Thomas is a nice player, but again... I'd be interested in seeing his numbers if he got the kind of defensive attention which became the ordinary with Irving this past season.

But, I mean... Thomas had a really good season. I think you're overrating Wall and underrating the guys around him.

[HomieWeMajor]

Bumped for this season.

[Milbuck]

Wall was better last season and he is better this season so far. He just impacts the game in so many more ways outside of scoring. And even then the scoring difference really isn't that great.

[tpols]

Wall >>

[Bigsmoke]

Wall always been better

[bizil]

For what I look for in a PG, YES!! Curry and Wall are really stepping u there passing and floor general game from the other young score first PG's. I think u could actually say now that Wall is a pass first PG. Who can also dominate a game scoring and be an alpha dog. Wall to me has the potential to be a freak athletic version of Gary Payton. Because I think he will evolve into a lockdown defender at PG.

In terms of scoring, scoring skillset, handles, and passing as a package, I think Kyrie is the in top three PG's along with Curry and Lillard. And he's still among the top 6-7 PG's in the world. But I just dig pass first PG's who can dominate scoring as my PG.

[turret]

Wall = pass

Kyrie= screw them I'm getting mine


Wall is the total package.
Different John Wall from his rookie out of control style.
Even the refs know who's better



Wall drives...... gets the harden calls

Kyrie left on ground lying with the cameramen as opponent is dunking

[ROCSteady]

Yes. Well-rounded. Much better for face of franchise too, even though LeBron took that mantle back.

The only thing Irving has on John is jumper. Crucial but not as crucial as being a facilitator

[Artillery]

Wall is better but I'm not impressed by him all that much either especially after watching him choke in the playoffs last year.

Kyrie's an empty stats player - puts up numbers on crap teams. Doesn't know how to run a competent offense. Nice fantasy player I guess.

[ROCSteady]

Wall does need to prove himself in the playoffs.

I still don't trust him to shoot at the end of a tight game. He hasn't done enough to prove his worth in that regard.

I'd still rather have him than Kyrie "Shoot the three or force the drive" Irving

[andremiller07]

Wall does need to prove himself in the playoffs.

I still don't trust him to shoot at the end of a tight game. He hasn't done enough to prove his worth in that regard.

I'd still rather have him than Kyrie "Shoot the three or force the drive" Irving
The game would never get to that point with Kyrie (since it would already be lost) nor would you make the playoffs.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I mean, give me the guy who can actually run an offense and play some defense.

[stalkerforlife]

I never knew Irving was ahead.