ISH Brahs, what if Duncan won a 5th ring last year, and a 6th one this year?

[TheMagicMan]

Where would he rank all time then?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Top 5 for sure, arguably top 3.

[DaSeba5]

Top 3

[DFish24]

Depends, does he win FMVP? Or does he get carried by Parker and Ginobili like '05 and 07?

[TheMagicMan]

Depends, does he win FMVP? Or does he get carried by Parker and Ginobili like '05 and 07?

He probably would've won FMVP in '13 if they won Game 6. Dunno about this year tho. I mean, if he averaged around 18/8 on solid efficiency at age 38 in the Finals, I wouldn't blame him if he didn't win FMVP.

[ArbitraryWater]

Depends on FMVP and his actual play....

I'd say Top 5.

Not sure about Top 3. Cant move him past Jordan/Kareem, no go. After that? Ehhh, why not... IMO would between him and Wilt.

None the less, these hypotheticals, we could do them with most players I guess... although Duncan was pretty damn fkn close to winning last year :lol

[TheMagicMan]

Depends on FMVP and his actual play....

I'd say Top 5.

Not sure about Top 3. Cant move him past Jordan/Kareem, no go. After that? Ehhh, why not... IMO would between him and Wilt.

None the less, these hypotheticals, we could do them with most players I guess... although Duncan was pretty damn fkn close to winning last year :lol

Yeah, that's why I asked it. I don't do hypotheticals much, but Duncan's situation was crazy enough for me to ponder what if?

[DFish24]

Depends on FMVP and his actual play....

I'd say Top 5.

Not sure about Top 3. Cant move him past Jordan/Kareem, no go. After that? Ehhh, why not... IMO would between him and Wilt.

None the less, these hypotheticals, we could do them with most players I guess... although Duncan was pretty damn fkn close to winning last year :lol

:no: Don't compare Duncan to the GOAT playoff choker.

[robert_shaww]

let me see...05 carried by manu...07 caried by parker...mmm....top 10.

[mehyaM24]

duncan was great last year....how ISH ranks players, somewhere in the 5-6 range :confusedshrug:

[robert_shaww]

http://a.espncdn.com/media/nba/2005/0623/photo/g_manu_360.jpg

[Marchesk]

Why do rings matter so much to rankings? So because Ray Allen hit a shot and Pop left Duncan out of the game, he won't rate as high as he could on the GOAT list. Does that make any sense to anyone?

It's a bad argument.

[robert_shaww]

Why do rings matter so much to rankings? So because Ray Allen hit a shot and Pop left Duncan out of the game, he won't rate as high as he could on the GOAT list. Does that make any sense to anyone?

It's a bad argument.


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RaOrchOImw8/S28WPxCTH9I/AAAAAAAAdIY/vdiMVQ9PGmI/s400/Robert+Horry+1.jpg

[TheMagicMan]

Why do rings matter so much to rankings? So because Ray Allen hit a shot and Pop left Duncan out of the game, he won't rate as high as he could on the GOAT list. Does that make any sense to anyone?

It's a bad argument.

Wilt fan^

[T_L_P]

He'd be top 3 in my opinion. Second most Finals MVPs ever is hard to deny. I already have him 4th though.

[AnaheimLakers24]

what if derrick rose won 5 in a row?

[AnaheimLakers24]

what if shaq only won 1 but had 10 mvps

what if bird was black

what if jordan beat the pistons

what if op wasnt a fgt?

[Marchesk]

Wilt fan^

Russell > Hondo > Jordan/Kareem/Pippen > Magic/Kobe > Duncan/Shaq > Wade/Bird > Lebron/Hakeem/Wilt > Dirk/West/Oscar > Malone/Bakley/Durant

Yeah, the ring argument is basically dumb. Because Ray Allen hit a shot while Duncan was on the bench ...

Note: I only incuded top 30 players all-time, not guys like Horry, so the my point stands. Durant will be top 30.

[robert_shaww]

He'd be top 3 in my opinion. Second most Finals MVPs ever is hard to deny. I already have him 4th though.

http://i.imgur.com/xzHLE6u.gif

[DaSeba5]

He'd be top 3 in my opinion. Second most Finals MVPs ever is hard to deny. I already have him 4th though.

I have him at 7 atm.

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Duncan

[T_L_P]

http://i.imgur.com/xzHLE6u.gif

Keep making up those per 36 numbers to fit your agenda bro.

[fpliii]

Depends, how much did Kareem move up from winning in 87 or 88?

[T_L_P]

I have him at 7 atm.

Jordan
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Duncan

I personally have Duncan over Bird because of longevity. I find it hard to rank Russell and Wilt because I haven't seen much of them, but I think Duncan's intangibles as a leader and team player is what puts him ahead of Wilt. Russell is right next to him.

The only ones that I'd put firmly ahead of Duncan are Jordan and Kareem, with Magic taking the 3rd spot. Then a case can be made for Russell, Shaq and Bird.

[TheMagicMan]

what if shaq only won 1 but had 10 mvps

what if bird was black

what if jordan beat the pistons

what if op wasnt a fgt?

What if your mom swallowed?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Top 2 all-time.

[DaSeba5]

I personally have Duncan over Bird because of longevity. I find it hard to rank Russell and Wilt because I haven't seen much of them, but I think Duncan's intangibles as a leader and team player is what puts him ahead of Wilt. Russell is right next to him.

The only ones that I'd put firmly ahead of Duncan are Jordan and Kareem, with Magic taking the 3rd spot. Then a case can be made for Russell, Shaq and Bird.

That's fair. It's all subjective.

[ArbitraryWater]

Depends, how much did Kareem move up from winning in 87 or 88?

Nothing... Id say Duncan was more impactful last year though.

[robert_shaww]

I personally have Duncan over Bird because of longevity. I find it hard to rank Russell and Wilt because I haven't seen much of them, but I think Duncan's intangibles as a leader and team player is what puts him ahead of Wilt. Russell is right next to him.

The only ones that I'd put firmly ahead of Duncan are Jordan and Kareem, with Magic taking the 3rd spot. Then a case can be made for Russell, Shaq and Bird.


http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7p9y7jpg81qbhly4.gif

[TheMagicMan]

Russell > Hondo > Jordan/Kareem/Pippen > Magic/Kobe > Duncan/Shaq > Wade/Bird > Lebron/Hakeem/Wilt > Dirk/West/Oscar > Malone/Bakley/Durant

Yeah, the ring argument is basically dumb. Because Ray Allen hit a shot while Duncan was on the bench ...

Note: I only incuded top 30 players all-time, not guys like Horry, so the my point stands. Durant will be top 30.

The ring argument isn't dumb for superstars. Sit this one out.

[mehyaM24]

^duncan over bird,shaq,russell and lebron? give me a ****ing break man :facepalm

[Marchesk]

Top 2 all-time.

Is your list:

Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Dirk

[SilkkTheShocker]

^duncan over bird? give me a ****ing break man :facepalm

Bird gets overrated on here. I don't even like Duncan, but he was a top 10 player in the league last season. As was Parker. If Spurs don't have that epic choke, Duncan has 4 finals MVPs and 5 wins. That alone is top 3 imo. Especially considering I don't put any weight in anything Russell or Wilt did in that garbage era.

[D-FENS]

Depends, does he win FMVP? Or does he get carried by Parker and Ginobili like '05 and 07?

05? He was FMVP

[mehyaM24]

Bird gets overrated on here. I don't even like Duncan, but he was a top 10 player in the league last season. As was Parker. If Spurs don't have that epic choke, Duncan has 4 finals MVPs and 5 wins. That alone is top 3 imo. Especially considering I don't put any weight in anything Russell or Wilt did in that garbage era.

i agree that he does, but that TLP clown also ranks duncan over bird,shaq and lebron....RIGHT NOW. logic fail

[SilkkTheShocker]

Is your list:

Kobe
Duncan
Wade
Lebron
Dirk

Dirk and Wade are somewhere from 15-20. You can't tell me there were 20 other players in the league that were better than them. Duncan is probably 5-6 on my list. Not a Kobe fan, but he is def top 10.

[DaSeba5]

Dirk and Wade are somewhere from 15-20. You can't tell me there were 20 other players in the league that were better than them. Duncan is probably 5-6 on my list. Not a Kobe fan, but he is def top 10.

Agreed.

[SilkkTheShocker]

i agree that he does, but that TLP clown also ranks duncan over bird,shaq and lebron....RIGHT NOW. logic fail

I can't outright say Duncan is a better player than Shaq or LeBron ever were. That is the problem here. He thinks that, more power to him. But there are a few names that could be argued taking over LeBron/Shaq and TD isn't one of them imo.

[TheMagicMan]

Bird gets overrated on here. I don't even like Duncan, but he was a top 10 player in the league last season. As was Parker. If Spurs don't have that epic choke, Duncan has 4 finals MVPs and 5 wins. That alone is top 3 imo. Especially considering I don't put any weight in anything Russell or Wilt did in that garbage era.

Are you kidding me? These guys would dominate in today's era without question :lol

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2009/0529/espndb_1948nbachamp_576.jpg

[T_L_P]

i agree that he does, but that TLP clown also ranks duncan over bird,shaq and lebron....RIGHT NOW. logic fail

Shaq: 4 rings with Penny, Kobe, Wade, LeBron, Nash.

Duncan: 4 rings with a past-his-prime David Robinson, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili. Better leader, better teammate, consummate pro.

LeBron after 10 years: 2 rings, 2 Finals MVPs, 4 MVPs, shitty competition

Duncan after 10 years: 4 rings, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs, elite competition

Yeah, Duncan > them both

Oh, and by the time LeBron retires he'll more than likely be ahead of TD. Just Duncan's 17 years are worth more than LeBron's 10/11. Just the way it is.

[SilkkTheShocker]

05? He was FMVP

And saying he was "carried" is a f.ucking joke. He was their best player in 05 and in the NBA. Even Larry Brown said Duncan was the reason they won. As for 07, Duncan along with Bowen shut LeBron down for the whole series. Parker beat up on a rookie 2nd round pick. Carried me ass :oldlol:

[JUDGE WITNESS]

well he would be ahead of jordan for sure. not sure about scottie or lebron or kaj tho

[robert_shaww]

And saying he was "carried" is a f.ucking joke. He was their best player in 05 and in the NBA. Even Larry Brown said Duncan was the reason they won. As for 07, Duncan along with Bowen shut LeBron down for the whole series. Parker beat up on a rookie 2nd round pick. Carried me ass :oldlol:

Larry Brown my ass.

In Game 1 and game 2 Ginobili was the best player in the court, and they won both games.

In game 5, Horry saved him, no dicussion.

In games 6 and 7, Manu was again the best player.

[robert_shaww]

by the way, put Duncan in the 90

[T_L_P]

Larry Brown my ass.

In Game 1 and game 2 Ginobili was the best player in the court, and they won both games.

In game 5, Horry saved him, no dicussion.

In games 6 and 7, Manu was again the best player.

Except, Larry Brow and Pop said Duncan was. So no, he wasn't.

[SilkkTheShocker]

[QUOTE=robert_shaww]by the way, put Duncan in the 90

[TheMagicMan]

[QUOTE=robert_shaww]by the way, put Duncan in the 90

[dreamwarrior]

Then I'd put him all time top 5 right behind Robert Horry

[SilkkTheShocker]

:facepalm

Seriously. Best SG and PF on the same team ever is 9-10 championships right there. Who the **** would beat them?

[robert_shaww]

Replace Duncan with Pippen, and the Bulls get past Detroit their first year together and win.

Pippen was more important for the Bulls than Jordan. (Im serious)

[aj1987]

Idiot Wilt stans and Kobetards trying to ruin another thread. :facepalm

If Timmy wins a FMVP, he moves into the top 5. Still not above MJ, Magic, Kareem, and Russell though.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Pippen was more important for the Bulls than Jordan. (Im serious)

More important meaning that they needed him and Grant to mature into players in order to get past Detroit and win titles. Duncan was the most polished prospect out of college maybe ever.

[robert_shaww]

More important meaning that they needed him and Grant to mature into players in order to get past Detroit and win titles. Duncan was the most polished prospect out of college maybe ever.

So we agree...wow.

[Pointguard]

Why do rings matter so much to rankings? So because Ray Allen hit a shot and Pop left Duncan out of the game, he won't rate as high as he could on the GOAT list. Does that make any sense to anyone?

It's a bad argument.
This pretty much.

It can get out of hand.

I didn't see too many SA games after Feb., about three games in the playoffs. And TD looked really bad, like Garnett, like he aged very quickly. Once you aren't a top ten player in a current situation you aren't moving up in my GOAT situation. Especially if the team is the same and the coach the same.

So he isn't moving up the ladder now. SA success is seriously making me upping Pop's coaching. And in a very weird, and ironic way, SA's continued success could possibly cost Duncan a spot.

[navy]

The ring argument isn't dumb for superstars. Sit this one out.
It is actually.

[SilkkTheShocker]

So we agree...wow.

But do you really feel MJ/Pippen would have still been more successful than MJ/Duncan?

[TheMagicMan]

It is actually.

Comparing Horry's rings to Duncan's is.

[TheMagicMan]

Seriously. Best SG and PF on the same team ever is 9-10 championships right there. Who the **** would beat them?

Also, check Pippen's playoff numbers during the 2nd three-peat: 17/7/5 on 40% FG, 29% 3PT, 70% FT. But yeah, MJ and Duncan would've only won 2 rings max :rolleyes:

[Marchesk]

Especially considering I don't put any weight in anything Russell or Wilt did in that garbage era.

Yeah because it this stacked era you have all-star centers going for 0/0/1.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Marchesk]

f Timmy wins a FMVP, he moves into the top 5. Still not above MJ, Magic, Kareem, and Russell though.

Explain to me how Tim's legacy is greater than Wilt's.

[Marchesk]

Comparing Horry's rings to Duncan's is.

So substitute Hondo for Horry.

[TheMagicMan]

So substitute Hondo for Horry.

Quote me on the part where I said rings are the end all be all :facepalm

[Marchesk]

Quote me on the part where I said rings are the end all be all :facepalm

You didn't, but the OP is basically asking whether Duncan moves up the list if Ray Allen doesn't hit that shot.

And this is ISH.

[Rocketswin2013]

Wilt isn't in the discussion for being over Duncan IMHO.

He was a stat padder, bottom line, and adjust his stats to pace and let's say knock his minutes down to 40 MPG, and this dude doesn't even rival Peak Shaq. On top of that he had EPIC playoff blunders.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Wilts remind of what Kobe stans would be in their 70s :lol

[TheMagicMan]

You didn't, but the OP is basically asking whether Duncan moves up the list if Ray Allen doesn't hit that shot.

And this is ISH.

Yes, along with his numerous accolades a 5th/6th ring would boost his position on the all-time list.

[Marchesk]

Yes, along with his numerous accolades a 5th/6th ring would boost his position on the all-time list.

How does Ray Allen missing a shot have anything to do with Duncan's ranking? Is Duncan all of a sudden better? That's absurd.

[Marchesk]

Wilts remind of what Kobe stans would be in their 70s :lol

Don't worry, Lebron will be Oscar in 40 years.

[TheMagicMan]

How does Ray Allen missing a shot have anything to do with Duncan's ranking? Is Duncan all of a sudden better? That's absurd.

If Spurs make those FTs there would've been no need for Ray Allen's shot :facepalm

[dannysc305]

ISH brahs, what if we all stopped speaking in hypotheticals all the time???

[Marchesk]

Wilt isn't in the discussion for being over Duncan IMHO.

He was a stat padder, bottom line, and adjust his stats to pace and let's say knock his minutes down to 40 MPG, and this dude doesn't even rival Peak Shaq. On top of that he had EPIC playoff blunders.

Yeah because Shaq had all those scoring and rebounding titles to go with all his records.

[ArbitraryWater]

How does Ray Allen missing a shot have anything to do with Duncan's ranking? Is Duncan all of a sudden better? That's absurd.

No, no its not.... otherwise accomplishments would play ZERO ROLE, as we could play that game ALL THE TIME.

Why is Jordan a better player because of his 6 Rings? Because Lakers scored less points in 1991, because Blazers choked 1992 G6, because of Kerr's Game Winner, because Stockton missed the winning 3?

Is Jordan all of a sudden better? That's absurd.

[Marchesk]

ISH brahs, what if we all stopped speaking in hypotheticals all the time???

What if rookie Duncan time traveled to 2048 and was drafted by the Athena Titans? Where would he end up ranked?

[TheMagicMan]

No, no its not.... otherwise accomplishments would play ZERO ROLE, as we could play that game ALL THE TIME.

Why is Jordan a better player because of his 6 Rings? Because Lakers scored less points in 1991, because Blazers choked 1992 G6, because of Kerr's Game Winner, because Stockton missed the winning 3?

Is Jordan all of a sudden better? That's absurd.

Also, what makes LeBron so better that the Spurs choked at the FT line right? :lol

[Marchesk]

Is Jordan all of a sudden better? That's absurd.

No, Jordan's not. He's better because his overall playoff and finals performances, and play in the clutch. I think Jerry West doesn't get enough credit because his Lakers teams were losing all those close finals to the GOAT dynasty. West performed. The ring argument is not irrelevant, but it needs to be taken into context. It's used too often to rank players. I'm saying it's a tad overrated.

[rmt]

Larry Brown my ass.

In Game 1 and game 2 Ginobili was the best player in the court, and they won both games.

In game 5, Horry saved him, no dicussion.

In games 6 and 7, Manu was again the best player.

You fail to mention the eggs that Manu laid in games 3 and 4 - 7 pts, 6 tovs/12 pts while Duncan was consistent throughout the series. I won't even mention his far greater impact on Spurs' defense (you know, half of the game) than Manu's. As far as your statement that Manu was the best player in game 7 - not according to Parker, Ben Wallace, Popovich and Larry Brown.


was the fulcrum of virtually every key play down the stretch.

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

"Rasheed was strapped all game," Brown said. "If you don't have your big people with the ability to play aggressively on Duncan, you've got no shot."

[aj1987]

Explain to me how Tim's legacy is greater than Wilt's.
Is Wilt even top 10 at this point? Hard to say. Duncan would have 5 rings and 4 FMVP's to Wilt's 2 and 1.

[5 rings fan]

Is Wilt even top 10 at this point? Hard to say. Duncan would have 5 rings and 4 FMVP's to Wilt's 2 and 1.
well we will have to give 67 wilt an fmvp
just because the award wasn't there doesn't mean he wasn't the FMVP
Do you agree?

[Relinquish]

Keep making up those per 36 numbers to fit your agenda bro.

I understand that you are a Spurs fan, but 4th is just stretching it a bit too far.

[aj1987]

well we will have to give 67 wilt an fmvp
just because the award wasn't there doesn't mean he wasn't the FMVP
Do you agree?
Agreed. Chet Walker deserves and HM though.

[iBandwagon]

Depends on FMVP and his actual play....

I'd say Top 5.



Let's say FMVP this year, while Parker takes it this year while Duncan puts up 17/9/2 blocks.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

He'd be top 3 in my opinion. Second most Finals MVPs ever is hard to deny. I already have him 4th though.

:bowdown:

[5 rings fan]

If ray allen didn't hit that shot Duncan would have a chance to be 6/6 in final..

[inclinerator]

top 5 without
top 3 possibly 2 with 2 finals mvp

[Manila]

like how bruno samartino is ranked in wwe

[sportjames23]

what if shaq only won 1 but had 10 mvps

what if bird was black

what if jordan beat the pistons

what if op wasnt a fgt?


Um, 1991 ring a bell? :biggums:

[sportjames23]

well he would be ahead of jordan for sure. not sure about scottie or lebron or kaj tho


Weak troll attempt.

2.2

negged

reported

[sportjames23]

Pippen was more important for the Bulls than Jordan. (Im a fakkit)



I see