tim duncan has been a role player on offense for the last 7 years

[kennethgriffin]

Ever since 2008 (since tony parkers finals run ) tim duncan has been a 15-17ppg role player.. on offense hes resembled the output of maybe a 1998 6th man kobe bryant


If kobe was on a stacked team averaging 15 points with 2 other guys running the offense 90% of the time. I wouldnt put much weight into his ring if he were to win one

People need to stop talking about duncans legacy. Its already set in stone. There isnt anything he can do to climb any higher.


Top 6.7.8 at best.. top 7.8.9 at worst.. around kobe and shaq. All ranked differently by those who love or hate someone more than someone else

He could retire tomorrow and this team would still be amazing. If they win it this year and he retired. I doubt it would be hard to find another top 40 player in the nba to step in for them

[SilkkTheShocker]

He was a top 10 player last season and would have been the Finals MVP had the Spurs not choked.

[ninephive]

Ever since 2008 (since tony parkers finals run ) tim duncan has been a 15-17ppg role player.. on offense hes resembled the output of maybe a 1998 6th man kobe bryant


If kobe was on a stacked team averaging 15 points with 2 other guys running the offense 90% of the time. I wouldnt put much weight into his ring if he were to win one

People need to stop talking about duncans legacy. Its already set in stone. There isnt anything he can do to climb any higher.


Top 6.7.8 at best.. top 7.8.9 at worst.. around kobe and shaq. All ranked differently by those who love or hate someone more than someone else

He could retire tomorrow and this team would still be amazing. If they win it this year and he retired. I doubt it would be hard to find another top 40 player in the nba to step in for them
Lol, hedging already. He's not the best player on the Spurs anymore, but he's a close second. He's not a role player. If he is, all the Spurs are role players.

[fpliii]

He was a top 10 player last season and would have been the Finals MVP had the Spurs not choked.
:applause:

[Inferno]

2013 Finals:

Tim Duncan: 20/12/2? How about Parker and Manu?

[ninephive]

He was a top 10 player last season and would have been the Finals MVP had the Spurs not choked.
I think it would have been Parker if Spurs close it in 6, but Duncan gets it if they win G7.

[ShackEelOKneel]

I think it would have been Parker if Spurs close it in 6, but Duncan gets it if they win G7.

I think it would have been Duncan either way.

[Smoke117]

Tim Duncan 2013: All Defensive First Team, All Nba First Team in his 16th year in the season leading his team to the NBA Finals...what a piece of shit? :biggums:

[DuMa]

if that is true then Kobe has been a d-league player on defense the past 7 years

[SilkkTheShocker]

I think it would have been Parker if Spurs close it in 6, but Duncan gets it if they win G7.

His game 6 at the end was great. Especially the two clutch shots he hit over Bron. But Duncan was their horse that series offensively/defensively. I honestly thought Leonard was better than Parker. Aside from that missed foul shot, he played almost perfectly.

[kennethgriffin]

He was a top 10 player last season and would have been the Finals MVP had the Spurs not choked.
Oh come on

He made that all nba team cause theres like 3 good centers in the nba and one of them was recovering from back surgery

Without that weak position and the spurs record duncan wouldnt have made 3rd team.. change his position to forward or guard. See if his 15 or 16 points and skipping every back to back game makes it

[fpliii]

Oh come on

He made that all nba team cause theres like 3 good centers in the nba and one of them was recovering from back surgery

Without that weak position and the spurs record duncan wouldnt have made 3rd team.. change his position to forward or guard. See if his 15 or 16 points and skipping every back to back game makes it
Defense is half the game...

[SilkkTheShocker]

:applause:

Yep. He absolutely took Bosh to the woodshed and made it hard for Bron to get to the rim at times. If Duncan was just a role player San Antonio doesn't take it to 7

[fpliii]

Yep. He absolutely took Bosh to the woodshed and made it hard for Bron to get to the rim at times. If Duncan was just a role player San Antonio doesn't take it to 7
Dude dropped 25 in the first half of G6.

BTW is Oden out for the playoffs? I guess he's not needed, but he'd be useful against Nene/Duncan/Hibbert.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Oh come on

He made that all nba team cause theres like 3 good centers in the nba and one of them was recovering from back surgery

Without that weak position and the spurs record duncan wouldnt have made 3rd team.. change his position to forward or guard. See if his 15 or 16 points and skipping every back to back game makes it

I have no horse in this debate. Could really care less. But calling TD a role player is beyond dumb. He put the team on his back. Parker was quiet for long chunks of time and Ginobili was playing awful basketball.

[Beastmode88]

in before robert_shaww shits on tim duncan.

[toxicxr6]

Even this year Duncan finished 12th in MVP voting

Role player?

[ShackEelOKneel]

Allow me translate for OP: If I discredit Duncan and the Spurs, it discredits LeBron, so I can make Kobe look better.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Kobe Stan Logic: Duncan = Role Player, Bosh = Superstar

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dude dropped 25 in the first half of G6.

BTW is Oden out for the playoffs? I guess he's not needed, but he'd be useful against Nene/Duncan/Hibbert.

I think just resting him. But he would definitely come in handy vs. Indy or Washington. And SA if they make it to the Finals. Don't expect anything special, but 6 well used fouls. Than again, they may be asking him a lot to be on the court that long :oldlol: :cheers:

[fpliii]

I think just resting him. But he would definitely come in handy vs. Indy or Washington. And SA if they make it to the Finals. Don't expect anything special, but 6 well used fouls. Than again, they may be asking him a lot to be on the court that long :oldlol: :cheers:
lol true. :cheers:

[kennethgriffin]

I have no horse in this debate. Could really care less. But calling TD a role player is beyond dumb. He put the team on his back. Parker was quiet for long chunks of time and Ginobili was playing awful basketball.


He had a good finals but blew it when he missed the wide open layup. Asside from that I didnt see much. And there was arguably 2 guys who outperformed him in the spurs 3 wins in the finaks. Green and parker were in line for finals mvp.

And the reason I said "offensively hes a role player" is so people couldnt jump in the defensive excuse like fpliii is trying

Yea defensively hes still solid cause the position is trash. He can body up with all those undersized guys in the nba that only touch the ball 5 times a game. If duncan had to play all 82 games against guys who average 25 a game things might be different

I think the games speak for themselves. I say for the last 7 years. Then people only judge duncan based on 7 cherry picked games


Whatever ... I say hes a role player offensively. Hes the 3rd most important player offensively and hes putting up average role player scoring numbers.. rebounds and defense are another discussion

[fpliii]

He had a good finals but blew it when he missed the wide open layup. Asside from that I didnt see much. And there was arguably 2 guys who outperformed him in the spurs 3 wins in the finaks. Green and parker were in line for finals mvp.

And the reason I said "offensively hes a role player" is so people couldnt jump in the defensive excuse like fpliii is trying

Yea defensively hes still solid cause the position is trash. He can body up with all those undersized guys in the nba that only touch the ball 5 times a game. If duncan had to play all 82 games against guys who average 25 a game things might be different

I think the games speak for themselves. I say for the last 7 years. Then people only judge duncan based on 7 cherry picked games


Whatever ... I say hes a role player offensively. Hes the 3rd most important player offensively and hes putting up average role player scoring numbers.. rebounds and defense are another discussion
Dude, I know you said offense in the title but in the OP, you mentioned:

Ever since 2008 (since tony parkers finals run ) tim duncan has been a 15-17ppg role player.. on offense hes resembled the output of maybe a 1998 6th man kobe bryant


If kobe was on a stacked team averaging 15 points with 2 other guys running the offense 90% of the time. I wouldnt put much weight into his ring if he were to win one

People need to stop talking about duncans legacy. Its already set in stone. There isnt anything he can do to climb any higher.


Top 6.7.8 at best.. top 7.8.9 at worst.. around kobe and shaq. All ranked differently by those who love or hate someone more than someone else

He could retire tomorrow and this team would still be amazing. If they win it this year and he retired. I doubt it would be hard to find another top 40 player in the nba to step in for them
How does that make any sense? Plenty of offense-only role players have moved up with late-career accomplishments. I don't get what you're going for dude. :confusedshrug:

[moe94]

Kobe Stan Logic: Duncan = Role Player, Bosh = Superstar
:roll:

[robert_shaww]

in before robert_shaww shits on tim duncan.

IM JUST SAYING THE TRUTH..

Duncan is around 15

[hitmanyr2k]

Roleplayer, star, whatever. Duncan doesn't have the "me-me-me" complex. The Spurs team as a whole is great and their youngsters develop because Duncan isn't some aging star blowing up chemistry and chucking his team out of games trying to pathetically hold on to past glory.

[kennethgriffin]

Dude, I know you said offense in the title but in the OP, you mentioned:

How does that make any sense? Plenty of offense-only role players have moved up with late-career accomplishments. I don't get what you're going for dude. :confusedshrug:


Ya role players who win role player rings can rank up over other role players. But a legendary player already top 10 isnt getting much prestige. Not nearly enough to 1 up anybody left in his path.

And being good defensively as a center when there arent any centers leading teams to titles offensively for him to matchup with. It makes things a big simpler

I'd say tony parker is by far the most important guy on the spurs. Then manu is arguably 2nd.

The spurs are not a 3 headed monster like they once were. Its a full team rotation and this team winning it all would be like the pistons in 2004.

[DMAVS41]

Ya role players who win role player rings can rank up over other role players. But a legendary player already top 10 isnt getting much prestige. Not nearly enough to 1 up anybody left in his path.

And being good defensively as a center when there arent any centers leading teams to titles offensively for him to matchup with. It makes things a big simpler

I'd say tony parker is by far the most important guy on the spurs. Then manu is arguably 2nd.

The spurs are not a 3 headed monster like they once were. Its a full team rotation and this team winning it all would be like the pistons in 2004.

As long as you only count Kobe with 4 rings...then I think everyone would be cool with it.

Because current Duncan is a better player than 00 Kobe overall...and no way could the Spurs win a title with Duncan playing like Kobe did in the 00 finals.

So do you admit Kobe should only be credited with 4 titles and that 00 means nothing?

Oh...and just for fun;

13 Duncan in finals - 19/12/1 55% TS 112 ortg 104 drtg

00 Kobe in finals - 16/5/4 41% TS 96 ortg 116 drtg

Kobe wins and Duncan loses....ROFL

[thefatmiral]

glad everyone can see the light, without manu taking a shit on the court timmy would have been holding a finals and fmvp above his head at 37

[Duggrr]

Never disrespect the legend. :no:

[fpliii]

Ya role players who win role player rings can rank up over other role players. But a legendary player already top 10 isnt getting much prestige. Not nearly enough to 1 up anybody left in his path.

And being good defensively as a center when there arent any centers leading teams to titles offensively for him to matchup with. It makes things a big simpler

I'd say tony parker is by far the most important guy on the spurs. Then manu is arguably 2nd.

The spurs are not a 3 headed monster like they once were. Its a full team rotation and this team winning it all would be like the pistons in 2004.
Eh, I think Timmy is still the most important but I can see where you're coming from. Manu and Parker wet the bed last Finals, and if one of them shows up, they probably win. So in that regard they're important.

Frankly though I don't think this Spurs team will win it all this year, but I guess they could. Blake Griffin looks like he's taken his game to another level, so the Clippers could figure into the mix.

[ShackEelOKneel]

Frankly though I don't think this Spurs team will win it all this year, but I guess they could. DeAndre Jordan looks like he's taken his game to another level, so the Clippers could figure into the mix.

Fixed.

[davehos]

Fixed.

Seconded.

I hear Kia is casting for a new commercial.

[Carbine]

Kareem wasn't even the second best player for his 5th ring. He was a role player his 6th title. All that will be remembered is winning.

[Warfan]

As long as you only count Kobe with 4 rings...then I think everyone would be cool with it.

Because current Duncan is a better player than 00 Kobe overall...and no way could the Spurs win a title with Duncan playing like Kobe did in the 00 finals.

So do you admit Kobe should only be credited with 4 titles and that 00 means nothing?

You sure about that?

[DMAVS41]

You sure about that?

Yea...Duncan is under-rated here. He's till playing great defense and knows how to win.

The experience factor puts him over the top. 00 Kobe was a year away from putting it all together.

And regardless of that...the point is that there is no ****ing way Duncan can play like Kobe did in the 00 finals and still win. And if he did and they won...then you have to give Duncan just as much credit as people do 00 Kobe.

And I find it funny...I don't see many people list Kobe as a player with 4 rings. So obviously playing like complete shit in the finals and winning still is a good thing.

So I see no reason why it would be different for Duncan...whether it was last year or this year.

[Kblaze8855]

He scored exactly the same per minutes last year as in 2003. And actually got more rebounds. I suppose he was a role player who played 40 minutes then?

He wasnt shooting any more for the time he was on the floor. He just played more minutes.

That the difference between elite and a role player?

He was all nba first team at 37. What he does will still count towards his final standing. He isnt Mitch Richmond on the Lakers. Hes closer to Drexler on the Rockets, Shaq on the Heat, or Moses Malone on the Bullets or Hawks the last few years.

Shaq put up like 18/9 winning his last ring...but he gets credit for 4. Similar deal.

Duncan is getting credit for anything he wins.

People credit Willis Reed for a ring he won as an 11ppg shadow who had a few good games at the right time.

Still said that Reed won 2 rings.

[tragicbronson]

Ever since 2008 (since tony parkers finals run ) tim duncan has been a 15-17ppg role player.. on offense hes resembled the output of maybe a 1998 6th man kobe bryant


If kobe was on a stacked team averaging 15 points with 2 other guys running the offense 90% of the time. I wouldnt put much weight into his ring if he were to win one

People need to stop talking about duncans legacy. Its already set in stone. There isnt anything he can do to climb any higher.


Top 6.7.8 at best.. top 7.8.9 at worst.. around kobe and shaq. All ranked differently by those who love or hate someone more than someone else

He could retire tomorrow and this team would still be amazing. If they win it this year and he retired. I doubt it would be hard to find another top 40 player in the nba to step in for them

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1503/15037917/2424917-0006340250-eShz7.gif

[Black Mamba's B]

Good post op.
Duncan is a legend and still plays at a high level but its not like he's carrying his team. Parker has arguably been the best player on the team for at least the last three years

[CavaliersFTW]

He was a top 10 player last season and would have been the Finals MVP had the Spurs not choked.
You mean had it not been for Ray Allen?

[kennethgriffin]

some dude in this thread said 39 year old tim duncan is better than this guy



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J90qsQo5dg4 ( playoff game winner )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNN920v6ss ( saves game 7 wcf )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFHqwat3Wm8 ( coming off injury )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmRk15I7g4 ( saves shaq again )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gbinYzvNbQ ( 40 point near TD )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yftIjaZumaU ( some highlights )


1st team all defense, 2nd team all nba ( behind only 2 hall of fame legends )

23ppg ( his lowest output season for a title equaling duncans highest )










i dont even care to look at his name anymore. forget the quote. no need to give whoever that was anymore attention

[5 rings fan]

According to Deuce Bigalow, even Wilt is better than Tim Duncan...

[Artillery]

As long as you only count Kobe with 4 rings...then I think everyone would be cool with it.

Because current Duncan is a better player than 00 Kobe overall...and no way could the Spurs win a title with Duncan playing like Kobe did in the 00 finals.

So do you admit Kobe should only be credited with 4 titles and that 00 means nothing?

Oh...and just for fun;

13 Duncan in finals - 19/12/1 55% TS 112 ortg 104 drtg

00 Kobe in finals - 16/5/4 41% TS 96 ortg 116 drtg

Kobe wins and Duncan loses....ROFL

:oldlol: at those horrible numbers. amazing what playing next to prime Shaq can do for your legacy

[Paul George 24]

some dude in this thread said 39 year old tim duncan is better than this guy



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J90qsQo5dg4 ( playoff game winner )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhNN920v6ss ( saves game 7 wcf )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFHqwat3Wm8 ( coming off injury )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzmRk15I7g4 ( saves shaq again )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gbinYzvNbQ ( 40 point near TD )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yftIjaZumaU ( some highlights )


1st team all defense, 2nd team all nba ( behind only 2 hall of fame legends )

23ppg ( his lowest output season for a title equaling duncans highest )










i dont even care to look at his name anymore. forget the quote. no need to give whoever that was anymore attention



duncan is not a ball hog like ko"me"be :no:

[rmt]

Ever since 2008 (since tony parkers finals run ) tim duncan has been a 15-17ppg role player.. on offense hes resembled the output of maybe a 1998 6th man kobe bryant


If kobe was on a stacked team averaging 15 points with 2 other guys running the offense 90% of the time. I wouldnt put much weight into his ring if he were to win one

People need to stop talking about duncans legacy. Its already set in stone. There isnt anything he can do to climb any higher.


Top 6.7.8 at best.. top 7.8.9 at worst.. around kobe and shaq. All ranked differently by those who love or hate someone more than someone else

He could retire tomorrow and this team would still be amazing. If they win it this year and he retired. I doubt it would be hard to find another top 40 player in the nba to step in for them

Well, seeing as Parker averaged only 16.7 points this whole year, I guess Parker is a role player too. In case you haven't noticed, Parker runs almost all his pick and rolls with Duncan, and Duncan is still the backbone of the Spurs' defense.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

i would take current duncan over nearly any version of kobe in the playoffs and i am only half trolling:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Anaximandro1]

Tim Duncan has been the best player on the Spurs for the last 7 years ... unfortunately.

It's hard to win titles when the best player is an old man. Parker has improved a lot, but it's not enough. That said, recent performances by Tiago and Kawhi give me hope... Tiago has been spectacular on the defensive end and Kawhi is a good young player ... he just keeps getting better and better.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uPpFEqrD1jQ/U2zDuhNFeiI/AAAAAAAAC1E/UoYThcsN5wk/s1600/6.jpg


Remember ... Shaq won his last title as the best player when he was 30 years old.

Bird was 29, Magic 28, Kobe 31, Dirk 32, Hakeem 32, Moses Malone 28 ...

[SilkkTheShocker]

You mean had it not been for Ray Allen?

It went to Game 7 and he missed a point blank layup. But how would you know? You don't watch any NBA games that took place before 1973

[dr.hee]

It went to Game 7 and he missed a point blank layup. But how would you know? You don't watch any NBA games that took place before 1973

The Heat vs Spurs finals were more than 40 years ago? Damn, feels like it has only been a year to me. Luckily, I watch NBA games that took place before 1973, otherwise I would've missed the point blank layup. Lucky me.

[rmt]

Tim Duncan has been the best player on the Spurs for the last 7 years ... unfortunately.

It's hard to win titles when the best player is an old man. Parker has improved a lot, but it's not enough. That said, recent performances by Tiago and Kawhi give me hope... Tiago has been spectacular on the defensive end and Kawhi is a good young player ... he just keeps getting better and better.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uPpFEqrD1jQ/U2zDuhNFeiI/AAAAAAAAC1E/UoYThcsN5wk/s1600/6.jpg


Remember ... Shaq won his last title as the best player when he was 30 years old.

Bird was 29, Magic 28, Kobe 31, Dirk 32, Hakeem 32, Moses Malone 28 ...

Nice to see the data in black and white. What's impressive to me is that an old Duncan has played almost 40 games MORE than Parker in that time frame and he's getting these numbers in LESS minutes than a prime Parker. Just so durable and consistent.

[mehyaM24]

and yet, is glorified here like kareem,jordan,shaq,magic...

its a joke. even his 2003 squad is underrated

43-15 run with Duncan scoring 2 ****ing points (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4caOwS6jI)

[SCdac]

and yet, is glorified here like kareem,jordan,shaq,magic...

its a joke. even his 2003 squad is underrated

43-15 run with Duncan scoring 2 ****ing points (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4caOwS6jI)

:facepalm watch the video though, Duncan is getting double and triple teamed through out the whole thing, often times before he even caught the ball. They're hovering around him and he played virtually the whole game (45 minutes).

Duncan was unstoppable in 2003, lead the Spurs both in assists and scoring. And if you think Duncan doesn't haven an impact when he's not scoring you haven't been watching basketball the last 10+ years

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/6bf9d8bc-1752-4493-8dcf-b5f2b6c313b1.jpg

[GimmeThat]

I think I'm ontop Pop

He has his 3 best players taking the best shot possible, and let the "role players" take the average NBA shots. But because out of 90 shots taken a game, we have about 50-60 taking at the best percentage possible. The rest of the shots even when being made at the NBA average level, still makes the Spurs the better team compared to others.


That and the fact the Duncan is NOT a role player on the defensive end.



He's the best power forward to ever play the game.

[DMAVS41]

and yet, is glorified here like kareem,jordan,shaq,magic...

its a joke. even his 2003 squad is underrated

43-15 run with Duncan scoring 2 ****ing points (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO4caOwS6jI)

His 03 squad is not under-rated...everyone knows it was good...but it was not great...

And my god...Duncan put up 25/15/5 while playing all time great defense.

He is absolutely on the Kareem/Magic/Shaq level of a player...and acting like he isn't is absurd. He's done everything they have and he's done it in a way that very few, if any, superstars have done as a team first guy.

I want people to get this through their head. Duncan was elite in 98 as a rookie. He made first team all defense and first team all nba...and he deserved it. Then, 16 years later....he made first team all defense and first team all nba...and he deserved that.

Shit like that is insane...absolutely insane given the burden he had to carry from 98 through 08 as well. He didn't have the kind of superstar help others did and certainly didn't ever get to rest on defense the way so many other superstars do when they get older.

He's as good as anyone I've ever seen as a basketball player other than Michael Jordan...(I did not see Russell or Wilt...and missed Kareem pre 77).

The dude is still probably a 3rd team all nba type player....

This is Kareem and Malone type longevity shit...and he's just a far better player overall than Malone was.

[mehyaM24]

His 03 squad is not under-rated...everyone knows it was good...but it was not great...

And my god...Duncan put up 25/15/5 while playing all time great defense.

He is absolutely on the Kareem/Magic/Shaq level of a player...and acting like he isn't is absurd. He's done everything they have and he's done it in a way that very few, if any, superstars have done as a team first guy.

I want people to get this through their head. Duncan was elite in 98 as a rookie. He made first team all defense and first team all nba...and he deserved it. Then, 16 years later....he made first team all defense and first team all nba...and he deserved that.

Shit like that is insane...absolutely insane given the burden he had to carry from 98 through 08 as well. He didn't have the kind of superstar help others did and certainly didn't ever get to rest on defense the way so many other superstars do when they get older.

He's as good as anyone I've ever seen as a basketball player other than Michael Jordan...(I did not see Russell or Wilt...and missed Kareem pre 77).

The dude is still probably a 3rd team all nba type player....

This is Kareem and Malone type longevity shit...and he's just a far better player overall than Malone was.

i honestly cant believe what im reading. duncan truly is the most overrated "star" ever.

he's a good offensive player and elite defensively......meanwhile guys like kareem,jordan,shaq were elite on both ends and had higher player efficiency ratings and winshares in their primes(kareem WOULD be higher had they recorded blocks and steals his first 4 seasons, and shaq if he stayed healthy).

i will give you magic though, even if i feel his impact offensively is probably second to none.

also get sick of hearing about his lack of a supporting cast. please STFU with your propaganda. dude has been contending for titles since his rookie year. has manu and parker,two of the greatest international players ever along with arguably the GOAT coach.

duncan is great but highly ****ing overrated....

[DMAVS41]

i honestly cant believe what im reading. duncan truly is the most overrated "star" ever.

he's a good offensive player and elite defensively......meanwhile guys like kareem,jordan,shaq were elite on both ends and had higher player efficiency ratings and winshares in their primes(kareem WOULD be higher had they recorded blocks and steals his first 4 seasons, and shaq if he stayed healthy).

i will give you magic though, even if i feel his impact offensively is probably second to none.

also get sick of hearing about his lack of a supporting cast. please STFU with your propaganda. dude has been contending for titles since his rookie year. has manu and parker,two of the greatest international players ever along with arguably the GOAT coach.

duncan is great but highly ****ing overrated....

You show your ignorance. Shaq was not elite defensively...sorry.

I didn't say he had a lacking supporting cast...he just didn't have a Magic Johnson or Kobe type player like Kareem and Shaq did.

And I don't know why you keep bringing up Jordan....I've never seen anyone rank Duncan over him. Not once...

Duncan seems like he could be ranked anywhere from like 3rd all time to 8th all time....

I personally have him 4th. :confusedshrug:

He's just definitely in that Bird/Magic/Shaq/Wilt range as a player....again, why wouldn't he be? He had a true 12 year prime as an elite force, an epic two way peak, and his maintained a level of longevity that maybe like a handful of guys in NBA history have. He's a 2 time MVP and 4 time champion (each title won without another superstar)...

Only year he didn't win over 50 regular season agmes...(the 99 lockout in which they were on a 60 plus win pace). He has the best win percentage, by far, of the era.

I really don't care where he falls in the all time rankings....but acting like he's a class below Magic/Shaq???? No, just no. He's right up there...

I could see people putting him clearly behind Jordan/Russell/Kareem...but again, I can't speak to Russell or pre 77 Kareem. And neither can you...you didn't see those guys play either. And I doubt you saw Magic or Bird in their primes either.

[VengefulAngel]

You show your ignorance. Shaq was not elite defensively...sorry.

I didn't say he had a lacking supporting cast...he just didn't have a Magic Johnson or Kobe type player like Kareem and Shaq did.

And I don't know why you keep bringing up Jordan....I've never seen anyone rank Duncan over him. Not once...

Duncan seems like he could be ranked anywhere from like 3rd all time to 8th all time....

I personally have him 4th. :confusedshrug:

Hey DMavs, I was wondering what is your top 10? Really curious.

[mehyaM24]

You show your ignorance. Shaq was not elite defensively...sorry.

I didn't say he had a lacking supporting cast...he just didn't have a Magic Johnson or Kobe type player like Kareem and Shaq did.

And I don't know why you keep bringing up Jordan....I've never seen anyone rank Duncan over him. Not once...

Duncan seems like he could be ranked anywhere from like 3rd all time to 8th all time....

I personally have him 4th. :confusedshrug:

wrong. shaq was definitely elite in 1998,2000,2001,2002,and 2003. some say no to 2005, and while i wouldnt necessarily disagree,he changed the culture of that heat team defensively....

and i bring up jordan because kareem and shaq are right there with him in terms of impact in their peaks and primes.

[VengefulAngel]

wrong. shaq was definitely elite in 1998,2000,2001,2002,and 2003. some say no to 2005, and while i wouldnt necessarily disagree,he changed the culture of that heat team defensively....

and i bring up jordan because kareem and shaq are right there with him in terms of impact in their peaks and primes.

Sorry but Shaq was never an elite defender, he was a terrible pick and roll player and a decent man to man defender. But never elite. May I ask who do you think is better defensively Roy Hibbert or Shaq?

[20Four]

It went to Game 7 and he missed a point blank layup. But how would you know? You don't watch any NBA games that took place before 1973

silk the shocker is prolly one of the most negative posters on this board. all he does is say negative things. nikka just comes off as a really negative person. seems like the kind of nikka who's really overweight and works a job he's unsatisfied with and never really accomplished any of his goals. Sad :cry:

[DMAVS41]

Hey DMavs, I was wondering what is your top 10? Really curious.

sure...right now;

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Lebron/Kobe

3 through 5 are interchangeable to me.

Again, I didn't see Wilt or Russell play, but from what I've read (extensively) I feel comfortable with where I have them.

[DMAVS41]

wrong. shaq was definitely elite in 1998,2000,2001,2002,and 2003. some say no to 2005, and while i wouldnt necessarily disagree,he changed the culture of that heat team defensively....

and i bring up jordan because kareem and shaq are right there with him in terms of impact in their peaks and primes.

You and I have different definitions for the word "elite"..which is fine, but Shaq was never on the Duncan level as a defensive force

I wouldn't put Shaq with MJ in terms of prime performance. Kareem...sure.

Peak/Prime is not the only thing that factors into my rankings. What kind of teammate you were, effort level, problems on and off the court, ability to play different roles, leadership, longevity....etc.

A lot goes into my rankings other than you peak and win shares...etc.

Especially when no stat is going to fully capture the Duncan impact that you are using. Duncan was a better defender than he was offensive player. And so comparing a guy like Shaq to Duncan on mostly offensive stats won't do much good in my opinion.

[mehyaM24]

Sorry but Shaq was never an elite defender, he was a terrible pick and roll player and a decent man to man defender. But never elite. May I ask who do you think is better defensively Roy Hibbert or Shaq?

you and dmavs are braindead.

shaq was elite in certain aspects of defense....especially in the post (in his prime),even after the trade to Phoenix,he shut down "timmay" in 2 regular season games(i will post a gamefrom youtube if its still up, from 2000 season where "timmay" was just 2-14 with shaq on him....shaq was also VG at blocking shots when guys tried to post him).

great protector in the paint too. you can see it in his blocks and rebound numbers which are BOTH elite....if you tried to dunk on Shaq, he'd either foul you hard or intmidate you with mass. players were legit afraid to attack the basket vs the behemoth that is shaq.

overall, i think he made a great impact defensively.he was definitely "elite"

[mehyaM24]

duncan over kareem? lmfao

[SwayDizzle]

Magic, Duncan, Hakeen, Bird, Lebron, Shaq over Kobe? lol

[VengefulAngel]

you and dmavs are braindead.

shaq was elite in certain aspects of defense....especially in the post (in his prime),even after the trade to Phoenix,he shut down "timmay" in 2 regular season games(i will post a gamefrom youtube if its still up, from 2000 season where "timmay" was just 2-14 with shaq on him....shaq was also VG at blocking shots when guys tried to post him).

great protector in the paint too. you can see it in his blocks and rebound numbers which are BOTH elite....if you tried to dunk on Shaq, he'd either foul you hard or intmidate you with mass. players were legit afraid to attack the basket vs the behemoth that is shaq.

overall, i think he made a great impact defensively.he was definitely "elite"

Agreed with this actually, Shaq was an intimidating figure on defense, but I don't think that he was an 'elite' defender all time.

[mehyaM24]

Agreed with this actually, Shaq was an intimidating figure on defense, but I don't think that he was an 'elite' defender all time.

well then you never watched him play. i just explained to you what he did defensively....if that isnt "elite" i dont know what is.

[VengefulAngel]

well then you never watched him play. i just explained to you what he did defensively....if that isnt "elite" i dont know what is.


I think we have different definitions of 'Elite', you can't always share the same opinions so lets just agree to disagree.

[robert_shaww]

sure...right now;

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Lebron/Kobe

3 through 5 are interchangeable to me.

Again, I didn't see Wilt or Russell play, but from what I've read (extensively) I feel comfortable with where I have them.


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2372295/kansasmelting.gif

[KG215]

And Kobe's defense has been, at best, role player level since about 2008.

Call it a draw?

[navy]

Guard defense is overrated. Over rated as in not as necessary or essential as post defense.

[ArbitraryWater]

You guys forget that Shaq used to be a great intimidator back in the day... especially 2000, where he was voted 2nd on DPOY.


sure...right now;

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Lebron/Kobe

3 through 5 are interchangeable to me.

Again, I didn't see Wilt or Russell play, but from what I've read (extensively) I feel comfortable with where I have them.

I don't see how Russell or Duncan could be > Kareem... In fact, I dont see how anyone besides Jordan could be. Those 2 are up and away the GOAT's.

[T_L_P]

18 PPG in the Playoffs since '08. I guess Shaq was a role player in '06 then, and Parker pretty much his whole career.

[TheMarkMadsen]

And Kobe's defense has been, at best, role player level since about 2008.

Call it a draw?


Still an elite defender in 09, WCF proved that. Was still a very good defender in 2010.

[TheMarkMadsen]

18 PPG in the Playoffs since '08. I guess Shaq was a role player in '06 then, and Parker pretty much his whole career.

By that logic Gasol too

[ArbitraryWater]

By that logic Gasol too

Well it's OP's Logic, news flash: OP is wrong.

Stop focusing on Numbers only. Gasol was a star in the back to back run, Duncan isn't a star anymore but that's no problem atm.

[T_L_P]

By that logic Gasol too

I'm not sure what he expects a past-his-prime PF to do.

Imagine if Duncan had all the freedom in the world to shoot, and he didn't have to hustle back on defense. He'd be a 20+ PPG scorer for sure.

Then kenneth would make a thread saying it's only because he doesn't play D and his team sucks. :roll:

[T_L_P]

Well it's OP's Logic, news flash: OP is wrong.

Stop focusing on Numbers only. Gasol was a star in the back to back run, Duncan isn't a star anymore but that's no problem atm.

Duncan was a star for some seasons in the last 7 years though.