Whatever happened to wing players with huge hands and incredible hang-time?

[CavaliersFTW]

Elgin Baylor, Connie Hawkins, Julius Erving, James Worthy, Michael Jordan are the top tier ones that immediately come to mind but there were more, I'm talking the guys with a combination of style, supreme body control, and huge hands that allowed them to seemingly hang in the air and make every layup and put any combination of spin on the ball imaginable. Back court players that would whip the ball around with one hand like a center, hesitate, and move their body around mid-flight like they had air-brakes before deciding to finally release the shot. Hang-time masters that palmed the ball effortlessly right off the dribble. What happened to them?

Did the basketball change and become less grippy? Were all those incredible layups from the 1960's-1990's just a stylistic trend that was phased out in favor of a dunk or less stylized layup? Have players bulked up too much? Or do all the top tier guards and forwards on big-market teams currently just have smaller hands? I know Kawhi has huge hands but he has no style he doesn't try to do any of the moves I'm talking about. Kobe and Melo like to use hang time but don't seem to have big enough hands to do any palming off the dribble, Durant and Lebron don't seem to either but it's hard to tell because I rarely see them try and hang-in-the-air to begin with.

Just watch some of Worthy to see what I mean: http://youtu.be/iryoXduEUqg?t=41s

:wtf: he and the others I mentioned made it look easy, surely there's got to be some players with the right tools in the league today, so why don't we see it today!?

[Kblaze8855]

Walter Herrmann.

I have nothing else to add.

[SexSymbol]

Deng LeBron Durant all have great hands.
I'm not even talking bout one rookie

[oarabbus]

Palming violations?

IIRC Greg Smith of the Rockets has the largest hands on record, since they've kept track of that. These guys are still out there but they use their mitts for PnR or other types of play rather than the hesitations and fakes now.

That's my speculation at least.

[D-FENS]

Kawhi Leonard?

And the "hangtime" is over-stated. We glorify old highlight videos of Dr J and MJ, flying through the air in slow-mo. Those guys have serious hangtime, but so did Vince/Kobe, and now we have guys a bunch of athletic guys doing the same things.

I think the difference you're noticing is that wings these days are garbage outside of LeBron and KD. Also, I feel that players nowadays want to either score immediately or draw a foul, so you get less in air artistry than in the past. Well, Wade still contorts in the air, but he's looking for fouls and his game is hella ugly.

[Rocketswin2013]

It doesn't matter....Like at all...If you're trying to make some half assed point about this era being weaker than ones in the past then you failed and your theory is false.

[iznogood]

I don't know about the rest, but I've been thinking about less players palming the ball today as well. I think it has to be the type of the basketball that's used, I don't think genetics of an average basketball player could change that fast.

[CavaliersFTW]

It doesn't matter....Like at all...If you're trying to make some half assed point about this era being weaker than ones in the past then you failed and your theory is false.
Not everything I post is agenda driven, I made an observation and am curious if anyone else sees the same thing, and if not or if so, to at least elaborate. Pull the stick out of your ass. We obviously have incredible leapers in the league not to mention players today are as powerful through training with weights and such as they ever have been, so it's not like I'm suggesting athleticism has dropped to prop up some other era, I'm simply stating I don't see the hang-time layups that one can find quite quickly and easily if they watch some of the big-name players from different times. Is it highlight bias? Is it a different ball? Is it all in my head? Perhaps, I don't know, I just can't think of big-name wing players right now that do the kinds of layups and have the big hands and hang time like I'm describing, thus the thread and potential for a discussion.

[oarabbus]

The hangtime is there, I think. DeRozan, Terrence Ross, Gerald Green, Griffin, Westbrook, many other players have amazing hangtime and get to throw down some wild dunks. Damian Lillard had a wonderful off the glass layup where he hung in the air and spun the ball off the glass while on the way down just yesterday.

[JohnMax]

Lebron seems to get alot and-1 layups.

[russwest0]

Giannis

[CavaliersFTW]

Giannis
He did come to mind actually, too bad he plays for a team that gets no publicity. I'm surprised Durant doesn't seem to play the way I'm describing, I wonder if he doesn't have hands big enough to palm the ball off the dribble. Or maybe he just doesn't want to play that way.

[oarabbus]

He did come to mind actually, too bad he plays for a team that gets no publicity. I'm surprised Durant doesn't seem to play the way I'm describing, I wonder if he doesn't have hands big enough to palm the ball off the dribble. Or maybe he just doesn't want to play that way.


Isn't that a palming violation? Or do you mean on your steps?

[CavaliersFTW]

Isn't that a palming violation? Or do you mean on your steps?
No, I'm talking about the moment you've picked up the dribble or on lift off, guys like Jordan, Worthy, etc could literally palm the ball with their one dribbling hand the moment it came up off it's last dribble without having to secure it with the other hand, and thus transition right into waving the ball around in the air for a fake or two before actually laying it in (or dunking it), it looks awesome and I just don't see it by any of the current big name wing players in the league. Most can jump extraordinarily high, it's the palming part that seems to be missing.

[lefthook00]

Lance Stevenson does the fake shot thing by the palming the ball.

[Rake2204]

Walter Herrmann.

I have nothing else to add.Came in to mention the same person. Can't believe the Palace didn't sell his jersey during his time here.

http://www.fiba.com/images/web/News/players_head_shots/arg/walter_herrmann/_original/arg_03_walter_herrmann_o.jpg

[oarabbus]

Let's not forget Rondo's behind the back palming fake layup move.

[Rake2204]

Let's not forget Rondo's behind the back palming fake layup move.I always thought that was more of a cuff, though I'm sure his hand size helps in such a maneuver.

[CavaliersFTW]

Lance Stevenson does the fake shot thing by the palming the ball.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieBY5Nxukp0

:applause:

Watching a few games here and there I never paid close attention to him, he doesn't get a huge share of touches, but definitely he's doing a lot of what I'm talking about, wow you know his finishing and driving highlights really remind me of Elgin Baylor. Power and grace, and he does seem to have the giant right hand capable of palming the ball like I'm talking about. It might just be me but it seems none of the current crop of superstars have the necessary tools for these kinds of finishes while driving.

[Natureland]

Where can you even find guys' hand measurements? Draft sites?

I feel like offensive stars looking for fouls and knowing that they get the benefit of the doubt probably has to do with players spending less time contorting and more time trying to go at or through a defender. Less time trying to work around a player at the basket, and more time trying to work through him. I wouldn't be surprised if they're coached that, as well.

But you're onto something about KD and palming the ball, or I have a funny idea of what you mean. I'd love to see KD work in the post and stretch out his arm and palm the ball while searching for a cutting teammate like Kareem, Wilt, or other older centers seemed to do. It seems like with that combo of size and wrist control dropping off a pass that way would be much easier. But I don't even know if KD has the hand size to do that...

[Rocketswin2013]

Maybe you're right OP. Stephenson is definitely one..........Maybe Rondo? I mean he's in no way a wing but he fits the hands requirement and I've seen him finish with grace.

Wow, come to think of it, there are more PG's that do this than SG/SF.

[CavaliersFTW]

Where can you even find guys' hand measurements? Draft sites?

I feel like offensive stars looking for fouls and knowing that they get the benefit of the doubt probably has to do with players spending less time contorting and more time trying to go at or through a defender. Less time trying to work around a player at the basket, and more time trying to work through him. I wouldn't be surprised if they're coached that, as well.

But you're onto something about KD and palming the ball, or I have a funny idea of what you mean. I'd love to see KD work in the post and stretch out his arm and palm the ball while searching for a cutting teammate like Kareem, Wilt, or other older centers seemed to do. It seems like with that combo of size and wrist control dropping off a pass that way would be much easier. But I don't even know if KD has the hand size to do that...
Recently the draft has started measuring player hand size, but for any player say, 5 years in the league or more (plus any/all retired players) you'll be hard pressed to find actual citeable measurements of hand size. It's usually obvious who the players are with the biggest hands though, they're the ones that can wave the ball around like a grapefruit and don't need the off hand to secure the ball.

[CavaliersFTW]

Maybe you're right OP. Stephenson is definitely one..........Maybe Rondo? I mean he's in no way a wing but he fits the hands requirement and I've seen him finish with grace.

Wow, come to think of it, there are more PG's that do this than SG/SF.
By wing player I really mean all non-centers or traditional pivot playing bigs (bigs usually/should have big hands), so point guards fall under who I'm describing. Any forward or guard who slashes to the hole and has an opportunity to fake once or twice while gliding before actually releasing the shot with one hand. It seems like there always used to be a few all-stars and superstars at any given time in the league capable of slashing to the bucket while giving you a couple of very impressive fakes with great hang-time and ability to palm the ball along the way. They make for great highlight plays. Rondo is one of them I forgot about him actually, he's the biggest name player that can do it routinely in the current league that I can think of off the top of my head.

[russwest0]

To answer OP's question in the form of a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-2L7SR-1Ng

[Pointguard]

Well if you shrunk Nene two inches he's Larry Kenon.

Blake would definitely do it if his hands were longer. Infact he would be a wing player if he just had bigger hands.

Yeah Giannis is the only one. But he doesn't have the confidence yet to try it.

[kshutts1]

I honestly think it's every player wants to Youtube the defender in front of them. Instead of doing something fancy, they just want to jam it down their throat.

Players go for the slam, all the time, every time, instead of maneuvering to get a neat shot.

[CavaliersFTW]

To answer OP's question in the form of a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-2L7SR-1Ng
Durant doesn't palm the ball on the play... That's just a standard baseline reverse layup. The Dr. J layup looked insane because of the way Dr. J palmed the ball straight off the dribble then held the ball away from his body out of bounds faking the shot then eventually finishing the shot all with one hand once he cleared the backboard. I don't see Durant palming the ball at all on that play, in fact he uses both hands to do the fake, then protect and secure the ball, then finally switches to one hand to finish the layup but he never palms it, he just puts his hand under the ball and lets gravity do the rest.

[Kblaze8855]

Lance just had a nice series of moves leading to a pretty(missed) finger roll. Im just posting this to remind myself to gif it later. Around 7 minutes left in the second quarter.

[SexSymbol]

Lance just had a nice series of moves leading to a pretty(missed) finger roll. Im just posting this to remind myself to gif it later. Around 7 minutes left in the second quarter.
That was seriously incredible, something I hadn't seen in a while, maybe even ever

[QuebecBaller]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-r8hiyboclew/UmZ0YBhx5eI/AAAAAAAAABA/PzYRa9LOkOw/s1600/qmeme_1382355040544_217.jpg

[CavaliersFTW]

Lance just had a nice series of moves leading to a pretty(missed) finger roll. Im just posting this to remind myself to gif it later. Around 7 minutes left in the second quarter.
damn I missed it, ill be waiting for that gif :applause:

[AintNoSunshine]

:roll: :roll: Yes the league was better because they had bigger hands and bigger d!cks, today's athletes are slower, shorter, can't even palm the ball and have no skills. Damn, you are one sad muthafukka, fixated on what happened 40 years ago. Don't watch, go to youtube and watch black and white footages.

[CavaliersFTW]

:roll: :roll: Yes the league was better because they had bigger hands and bigger d!cks, today's athletes are slower, shorter, can't even palm the ball and have no skills. Damn, you are one sad muthafukka, fixated on what happened 40 years ago. Don't watch, go to youtube and watch black and white footages.
I have to admit the overreactions to my posts are always hilarious :oldlol: