Myth about pre-Lakers Pau Gasol

[iBandwagon]

Myth: Pau Gasol was a loser before joining Lakers.

Reality: Gasol was playing with shit for help on the Grizzlies.

People (Kobe stans mostly) point to him not having won a playoff game before joining the Lakers, but Gasol dragged some shitty as players into the playoffs.

The 2006 Grizzlies playoff team had Mike Miller as the 2nd highest scorer at 13.7ppg. The rest of their core consisted of old washed up Damon Stoudamire, old washed up Eddie Jones, perennial role player Shane Battier, and Chucky Atkins. Notice that none of those are bigs. The 2nd best big on that team was Lorenzen ****ing Wright, who only played 21mpg. That means Pau Gasol carried a bunch of midget ass chumps to the playoffs. That was also the first year of his prime.

Even before he hit his prime, he still carried scrubs to the playoffs. In 2005, he again carried Mike Miller (13.4ppg being the 2nd highest on the team), Shane Battier, Lorenzen ****ing Wright, washed up Bonzi Wells, washed up Jason Williams, and Stomile Swift to the playoffs.

2004, James Posey (his 13.7 being 2nd highest on team), then the rest of the scrubby bunch mentioned in 2005.

[Myth]

Myth: Pau Gasol was a loser before joining Lakers.



I have never said that you liar.

[Mr. Jabbar]

damn, you put it in such a way i think the heat should get him :applause:

[IMObjective]

I thought he was good enough to make me ecstatic when the Lakers acquired him. Lakers were already on a tear with Bynum coming up, and I (along with probably most other people) knew the impact would be huge. Championship cruise!

but I still think that kobe helped spark his career peak play.

[-Lebron23-]

Myth: Pau Gasol was a loser before joining Lakers.

Reality: Gasol was playing with shit for help on the Grizzlies.

People (Kobe stans mostly) point to him not having won a playoff game before joining the Lakers, but Gasol dragged some shitty as players into the playoffs.

The 2006 Grizzlies playoff team had Mike Miller as the 2nd highest scorer at 13.7ppg. The rest of their core consisted of old washed up Damon Stoudamire, old washed up Eddie Jones, perennial role player Shane Battier, and Chucky Atkins. Notice that none of those are bigs. The 2nd best big on that team was Lorenzen ****ing Wright, who only played 21mpg. That means Pau Gasol carried a bunch of midget ass chumps to the playoffs. That was also the first year of his prime.

Even before he hit his prime, he still carried scrubs to the playoffs. In 2005, he again carried Mike Miller (13.4ppg being the 2nd highest on the team), Shane Battier, Lorenzen ****ing Wright, washed up Bonzi Wells, washed up Jason Williams, and Stomile Swift to the playoffs.

2004, James Posey (his 13.7 being 2nd highest on team), then the rest of the scrubby bunch mentioned in 2005.
Of course you weren't watching but Hubie Brown did a hell of a job with those Grizzlies rosters.

Not to forget James Posey played excellent basketball and was considered by Hubie the MVP of the team at one point. Yes, James fvcking Posey over Pau, from his coach's mouth.

Those teams were deep but lacked reliable perimeter scoring (Miller heavily underperformed in the playoffs pretty much every year, as did their point guards) and toughness, which is usually a recipe for regular season succes and playoff failure.

Hubie was the right coach for the personnel they had there, imposing an unusual style in which no one would ideally play more than 30-32 minutes, ball movement was key and iso ball was almost non-existent.

Pau was by far their best player but let's not act like he was this superstar that willed his team to the playoffs every year.

Memphis did fail to pair Pau with a strong center that would compliment his game, even though he made this requested very clearly often times but the philosopy and style of those teams were clearly not good for playoff basketball.

[AussieG]

I don't approve of this topic, it's full of BS with some sort of agenda that I couldn't even be bothered to understand or try to decode.

You never even payed attention to the Grizzlies during the seasons Pau was with them.. just admit it.

Hubie's Grizzlies had a 10 man rotation and focused on fresh legs, team play and depth. Pau didn't lead them to anything, he was just the best player on the team. And he wilted in the playoffs, it didn't help he was carrying injuries, but he showed nothing.

That was solved when paired with Kobe, because he didn't have to carry all of that pressure alone. Kobe was a perfect fit because he has all that Pau lacks.. balls.

[AussieG]

Of course you weren't watching but Hubie Brown did a hell of a job with those Grizzlies rosters.

Not to forget James Posey played excellent basketball and was considered by Hubie the MVP of the team at one point. Yes, James fvcking Posey over Pau, from his coach's mouth.

Those teams were deep but lacked reliable perimeter scoring (Miller heavily underperformed in the playoffs pretty much every year, as did their point guards) and toughness, which is usually a recipe for regular season succes and playoff failure.

Hubie was the right coach for the personnel they had there, imposing an unusual style in which no one would ideally play more than 30-32 minutes, ball movement was key and iso ball was almost non-existent.

Pau was by far their best player but let's not act like he was this superstar that willed his team to the playoffs every year.

Memphis did fail to pair Pau with a strong center that would compliment his game, even though he made this requested very clearly often times but the philosopy and style of those teams were clearly not good for playoff basketball.

You are a rare poster on here, in that you understand those Grizz teams. Posey was the MVP in a similar way to how Marc Gasol is the MVP now. Pau needed a better PG and a better C. J-Will and Lorenzen Wright were average.. and J-Will especially would get torched defensively, but at that time, it was a big thing even to get into the playoffs at all. Pau didn't carry any scrubs into anything.. that's a weird way of looking at it.

[-Lebron23-]

You are a rare poster on here, in that you understand those Grizz teams. Posey was the MVP in a similar way to how Marc Gasol is the MVP now. Pau needed a better PG and a better C. J-Will and Lorenzen Wright were average.. and J-Will especially would get torched defensively, but at that time, it was a big thing even to get into the playoffs at all. Pau didn't carry any scrubs into anything.. that's a weird way of looking at it.
:cheers:

Yep, I agree on your points about Posey and the problems at the PG and C.

I try to watch as much Grizzlies basketball as I can to be honest. They fly under the radar since they don't have superstars but they've played some damn good basketball both during Hubie's tenure and the last 3-4 years.

That team was fun to watch but you could tell they were no match for the top teams in the West. Many here either were too young to watch them or flat out didn't bother watching them so threads like this will keep coming up from time to time.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The 06 Grizzlies had the 2nd most efficient defense in the league.


That's all Pau?!?

:roll:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Anybody telling you Pau was a loser is an insecure Kobe stan.


In any case, he was a borderline superstar.

That must be a huge border.

One time all star = superstar.

Traded for an expiring contract= superstar

:facepalm

[Milbuck]

I have never said that you liar.
:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Taking a hit on his stats for the sake of the team but still averaging 19/10/3/2 53/00/80 shooting = borderline superstar.

Why would he be taking a hit on his stats for the sake of the team if he was a borderline superstar surrounded with no help on the Grizzlies? If anything his point totals were inflated.

Try to maintain some sort of coherent viewpoint.

[chocolatethunder]

Myth: Pau Gasol was a loser before joining Lakers.

Reality: Gasol was playing with shit for help on the Grizzlies.

People (Kobe stans mostly) point to him not having won a playoff game before joining the Lakers, but Gasol dragged some shitty as players into the playoffs.

The 2006 Grizzlies playoff team had Mike Miller as the 2nd highest scorer at 13.7ppg. The rest of their core consisted of old washed up Damon Stoudamire, old washed up Eddie Jones, perennial role player Shane Battier, and Chucky Atkins. Notice that none of those are bigs. The 2nd best big on that team was Lorenzen ****ing Wright, who only played 21mpg. That means Pau Gasol carried a bunch of midget ass chumps to the playoffs. That was also the first year of his prime.

Even before he hit his prime, he still carried scrubs to the playoffs. In 2005, he again carried Mike Miller (13.4ppg being the 2nd highest on the team), Shane Battier, Lorenzen ****ing Wright, washed up Bonzi Wells, washed up Jason Williams, and Stomile Swift to the playoffs.

2004, James Posey (his 13.7 being 2nd highest on team), then the rest of the scrubby bunch mentioned in 2005.
Where did this purported " myth" come from? Sounds more like a guy who's making something up in order to create some bullshit argument. Dude was a stud before the Lakers and was great. He went to a better team and won more. What's wrong with that and what's so hard to figure out?

[KD35Brah]

Pau has NEVER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER had a peak of 24 and 11 like Bosh.

Bosh didn't win playoffs games either and he was in the shitty East, yet Pau is an all time great when he had as much success as Bosh when he was alone.:lol

Bosh is a 3rd option for Miami. Talk about STACKED.

[mehyaM24]

OT, but gasol's 2010 season is pretty underrated. by all objective measures, he was arguably the lakers best player and had the most impact.

PER:
gasol-22.9
kobe-21.9

Win Shares:
gasol-11.0
kobe-9.4

Offensive Win Shares:
gasol-6.8
kobe-5.4

Defensive Win shares(not the greatest stat,but still very telling):
gasol-4.2
kobe-4.0

sidenote: also had 40 double-doubles to kobe's 7 :eek:

[Hey Yo]

That must be a huge border.

One time all star = superstar.

Traded for an expiring contract= superstar

:facepalm
Kind of hard to get the votes needed for PF/C position with the likes of Yao, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Amare in the mix.

[GimmeThat]

The triangle offense got to fully showcase his skill set.

But that's also because the Lakers had Bynum/Odom combo
Which really allowed him to play PF/C

He's an under-weight Center with Power Forward skills.
his skill sets are way too valuable for him to not play back to the basket.
beyond his facing the basket skills.

[AnaheimLakers24]

people acting like the qould watch grizzlie games. only two people in this thread sound like they did

[VIP2000]

Pau has NEVER IN HIS ENTIRE CAREER had a peak of 24 and 11 like Bosh.

Bosh didn't win playoffs games either and he was in the shitty East, yet Pau is an all time great when he had as much success as Bosh when he was alone.:lol

Bosh is a 3rd option for Miami. Talk about STACKED.

Bosh averaged 24 and 11 only for one year, and that was on a non-playoff team. Whereas Gasol's Grizzlies teams were fairly deep and didn't need anyone scoring that many points. I would say both of their careers were comparable for the most part before they joined the Lakers/Heat, although Bosh was never considered a top 10 player (whereas Gasol was for a 2-3 year stretch).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Kind of hard to get the votes needed for PF/C position with the likes of Yao, Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Amare in the mix.

I agree its hard to get all star votes when there are legitimate stars and superstars better than you hogging them all.

:facepalm

[navy]

OT, but gasol's 2010 season is pretty underrated. by all objective measures, he was arguably the lakers best player and had the most impact.

PER:
gasol-22.9
kobe-21.9

Win Shares:
gasol-11.0
kobe-9.4

Offensive Win Shares:
gasol-6.8
kobe-5.4

Defensive Win shares(not the greatest stat,but still very telling):
gasol-4.2
kobe-4.0

sidenote: also had 40 double-doubles to kobe's 7 :eek:
:biggums:

[Rocketswin2013]

Why would he be taking a hit on his stats for the sake of the team if he was a borderline superstar surrounded with no help on the Grizzlies? If anything his point totals were inflated.

Try to maintain some sort of coherent viewpoint.
Oh we're talking the Grizzlies Gasol? Even then he was still borderline superstar. But with LA he averaged some ridiculous statlines everytime Bynum was out. Sharing the paint with Bynum held him back while he was in his peak.

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Pau was a loser before he came to the Lakers. So was Kevin Garnett (Before the Celtics), Tracy McGrady, and Carmelo Anthony. They all couldn't get out of the 1st round.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Oh we're talking the Grizzlies Gasol? Even then he was still borderline superstar. But with LA he averaged some ridiculous statlines everytime Bynum was out. Sharing the paint with Bynum held him back while he was in his peak.

He wasn't even a borderline star let alone superstar. A healthy Bynum was a rarity with the Lakers. Your memory is terrible.

[Rocketswin2013]

He wasn't even a borderline star let alone superstar. A healthy Bynum was a rarity with the Lakers. Your memory is terrible.
In what season? I'm talking 2010. ESPN mentioned it way back then and I still remember it now.

Gasol's PPG/RPG and maybe even efficency went up without him in the lineup.

[Rocketswin2013]

Lol looking at it now. Gasol averaged 24/13/5/2 just 2.6 TOV and 61% shooting without Bynum in the lineup for a full month in 2010.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Lol looking at it now. Gasol averaged 24/13/5/2 just 2.6 TOV and 61% shooting without Bynum in the lineup for a full month in 2010.

Solid logic.

A player has a good month in 2010 therefore he was a "borderline superstar" in 2007.

[iBandwagon]

Where did this purported " myth" come from? Sounds more like a guy who's making something up in order to create some bullshit argument. Dude was a stud before the Lakers and was great. He went to a better team and won more. What's wrong with that and what's so hard to figure out?

The myth is mostly pushed by Kobe stans, who try to essentially suggest he was a scrub that was nothing without Kobe. If you don't think that such a myth exists, why do you think there is so much debate in this thread? Btw, Your last 3 sentences actually go along exactly with what I am saying. :confusedshrug:

[iBandwagon]

I don't approve of this topic, it's full of BS with some sort of agenda that I couldn't even be bothered to understand or try to decode.


This thread was actually made immediately after I saw a Kobe fan spewing bullshit about Pau in another thread regarding how he was shitty on the Grizzlies and only looked good once Kobe carried him. So if anything, my "agenda" was to respond to Kobe stans undervaluing his teammates to prop him up.

[TheMagicMan]

The myth is mostly pushed by Kobe stans, who try to essentially suggest he was a scrub that was nothing without Kobe. If you don't think that such a myth exists, why do you think there is so much debate in this thread? Btw, Your last 3 sentences actually go along exactly with what I am saying. :confusedshrug:

Either way you still got owned in the first page of your post.

[bdreason]

Everyone knows Pau was an elite bigman before joining the Lakers. That's why people, including Kobe homers, couldn't believe he was traded for Kwame and an unproven draft prospect (Marc).

[iBandwagon]

Everyone knows Pau was an elite bigman before joining the Lakers. That's why people, including Kobe homers, couldn't believe he was traded for Kwame and an unproven draft prospect (Marc).

Right, but they have put a revisionist twist.

[iBandwagon]

Either way you still got owned in the first page of your post.

Whatever, brah. Doesn't matter how good his coach was (which Hubie is awesome, no denying), he still kicked ass as the only real post presence on those teams, and did it well enough to get them to the playoffs in the competitive west.

[ILLsmak]

I have never said that you liar.

u muddafugga lol

-Smak

[uber]

Pau was a loser before he came to the Lakers. So was Kevin Garnett (Before the Celtics), Tracy McGrady, and Carmelo Anthony. They all couldn't get out of the 1st round.

So how did he manage to play in the WCF 2009 :confusedshrug:

[SwayDizzle]

All Lakers fans appreciate what Gasol has done for the team. We held him to such a high standard, most non-Lakers fans will not be able to understand. When we saw him dip because of his mental fragility/personal issues in 2011, we were so disappointed. You can only be this disappointed when you have incredibly high expectations for a player. This was all based on his performance from 08-10, when he was an undeniable superstar. The only time Laker fans use the rebuttal of Gasol being useless prior to joining Kobe and the Lakers, is when Kobe haters bring up that Gasol carried the team during those championship runs. This statement is so full of bias, it should be ignored. People love to discredit what Kobe has done throughout his career by marking him as a second fiddle. When in reality he was more alpha than Shaq (who is damn alpha on his own account), and definitely more alpha than Gasol.

[ShackEelOKneel]

All Lakers fans appreciate what Gasol has done for the team. We held him to such a high standard, most non-Lakers fans will not be able to understand. When we saw him dip because of his mental fragility/personal issues in 2011, we were so disappointed. You can only be this disappointed when you have incredibly high expectations for a player. This was all based on his performance from 08-10, when he was an undeniable superstar. The only time Laker fans use the rebuttal of Gasol being useless prior to joining Kobe and the Lakers, is when Kobe haters bring up that Gasol carried the team during those championship runs. This statement is so full of bias, it should be ignored. People love to discredit what Kobe has done throughout his career by marking him as a second fiddle. When in reality he was more alpha than Shaq (who is damn alpha on his own account), and definitely more alpha than Gasol.

I was with you until you started talking about the "alpha" bullshit.

[SwayDizzle]

I was with you until you started talking about the "alpha" bullshit.
I see 'alpha' as an antonym to being a 'second fiddle'.

[SpecialQue]

Grizzlies fans and people who actually watched those Pau-led teams post facts in this thread, which are then ignored for agenda reasons.

ISH, everybody. :facepalm

[Hey Yo]

I agree its hard to get all star votes when there are legitimate stars and superstars better than you hogging them all.

:facepalm
Just because you weren't voted / chosen for the all-star game, doesn't mean you didn't deserve to be there.

Any fan who's watched the NBA should know this.

[AnaheimLakers24]

gasol surpassed shaq as my 2nd favorite player of all tim

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Just because you weren't voted / chosen for the all-star game, doesn't mean you didn't deserve to be there.

Any fan who's watched the NBA should know this.

Who should he have replaced and why?

[VIP2000]

Who should he have replaced and why?

The West was stacked with forwards...Dirk, Amare, Webber, Duncan, KG, Brand, Boozer, Melo. Gasol was putting up about 18ppg and 8ppg on 32 mpg, he would have made it had Memphis played in the East. And when his mgp peaked, he did get one all-star selection. I'm sure he got some votes by the coaches, it's not like he was a role player.

Heck, even Melo had a hard time getting in averaging 25ppg on a playoff-bound team.

[Solefade]

pau never got out of the first round before kobe? kobe never got out of the first round without shaq/pau :confusedshrug:

[mehyaM24]

pau never got out of the first round before kobe? kobe never got out of the first round without shaq/pau :confusedshrug:

exactly,but as others said, teams win rings,not individuals :cheers:

[BlkMambaGOAT]

pau never got out of the first round before kobe? kobe never got out of the first round without shaq/pau :confusedshrug:


Kobe - Gasol = 3 rings

Gasol - Kobe = 0 rings

In comparison

Wade - Lebron = 1 ring

Lebron - Wade = 0 rings


Alpha of their respective teams: Wade, Kobe

Beta/choker/statpadder/crybaby/flopper: Gasol, Bron Bron.

The truth hurts
http://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/nets2.jpg

[TheMarkMadsen]

Of course you weren't watching but Hubie Brown did a hell of a job with those Grizzlies rosters.

Not to forget James Posey played excellent basketball and was considered by Hubie the MVP of the team at one point. Yes, James fvcking Posey over Pau, from his coach's mouth.

Those teams were deep but lacked reliable perimeter scoring (Miller heavily underperformed in the playoffs pretty much every year, as did their point guards) and toughness, which is usually a recipe for regular season succes and playoff failure.

Hubie was the right coach for the personnel they had there, imposing an unusual style in which no one would ideally play more than 30-32 minutes, ball movement was key and iso ball was almost non-existent.

Pau was by far their best player but let's not act like he was this superstar that willed his team to the playoffs every year.

Memphis did fail to pair Pau with a strong center that would compliment his game, even though he made this requested very clearly often times but the philosopy and style of those teams were clearly not good for playoff basketball.

Done & done

[Solefade]

Kobe - Gasol = 3 rings

Gasol - Kobe = 0 rings

In comparison

Wade - Lebron = 1 ring

Lebron - Wade = 0 rings


Alpha of their respective teams: Wade, Kobe

Beta/choker/statpadder/crybaby/flopper: Gasol, Bron Bron.



boiled down:

Kobe w/o the best front court that season = 0 rings :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

lebron >>>>>>> kobe


the truth hurts