Do the Heat get better with Westbrook

[Mass Debator]

instead of an old Wade?

[BrainDead]

Yes....without question

[Rocketswin2013]

Hell no. Epescially considering they both missed a ton of games.

[Threethrows]

Probably.

People don't give Westbrook enough credit on the Thunder. Yeah he has his bad nights, and his stupid what were you thinking moments but he's an extremely difficult player for defenses to deal with.

[rhowen4]

Yes

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Westbrook would be the best SG in the league if he played the position (which he could).

[buddha]

Westbrook would turn into a spot up shooter who averages 18 ppg so no.

[Trollsmasher]

Yes

Unlike beta Durant, LeBron would be able to control Westbrook and set him on the right path to greatness

[GODbe]

Westbrook would turn into a spot up shooter who averages 18 ppg so no.
This. Westbrooks stats would only take a huge falloff and people would already be talking about his "decline" just like they are for Wade.

[navy]

Probably. Depends if Westbrook chucks or not.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

westbrook for me is better than urant.
hes very good at offense and defense and we all know what happens when he cant play well. the thunder always lose.
he is opening the game up for durant so much its crazy.
if lebron had such a guy i cant even begin to imagine his individual stats.
he would probably shoot 65%:applause:

[Threethrows]

This. Westbrooks stats would only take a huge falloff and people would already be talking about his "decline" just like they are for Wade.

Wade has declined. Injuries man. Then all of a sudden Wade has a vintage game and people claim he's back. A week later his back, shoulder, and knee explode. Then we spent months talking about how Wade has declined. Out of nowhere he has a stretch of 5 really good games and Wade is back and all the shit talkers are eating crow :rockon: . Then he gets injured again.

The bottom line is Wade is a REALLY good player even when he's clearly not a super star. He definitely still has the potential to go off on any given night but it's not something he can sustain anymore.

Wade will never be back, he has declined. Occasional out bursts don't change that.

Westbrook would be better for this team.

[nba_55]

Westbrook would turn into a spot up shooter who averages 18 ppg so no.

Wade is a spot up shooter in Miami :biggums:
:roll: :roll:

[leMVP]

Imagine two freak of natures playing on the same team and you're asking defense to deal with them? that' nightmare.

Also, Westbrook can actually shoot so he will create more spacing which will allow him and Lebron to co-exist.

Also If Westbrook would just do one of his stupid things, Lebron will eat him alive unlike Durbeta who's afraid of confronting Westbrook.

[Micku]

I think so, but I think LBJ change up Westbrook game. He won't have the ball as much as he used to since LBJ operate as the point guard a lot of the time. Westbrook probably won't average 21.5 FGA like he is right now in the playoffs.

[navy]

I think so, but I think LBJ change up Westbrook game. He won't have the ball as much as he used to since LBJ operate as the point guard a lot of the time. Westbrook probably won't average 21.5 FGA like he is right now in the playoffs.

Lebron hasnt been the point guard in this series. Wade has. :confusedshrug:

[Yankstar]

Yes. Wade can't play more then 20 a game consistently and rests on back to backs. He is done :cry:

[Frozen1]

Westbrook is one of the dumbest players in NBA, has a very low IQ.

People forget that Miami Heat play as a team, it

[Dresta]

Not at all. Losing Wade would destroy Miami's stifling perimeter defense that is a massive part of the team's identity. They would also lose a better passer/decision maker on offense, which is important considering this teams offensive success is predicated around ball movement.

Brook would be a terrible fit alongside Lebron.

[USABall]

Westbrook is getting better at adjusting to finish at the rim, and in the past few games, has shown a semblance of adaptation to offensive flow, two of his greatest weaknesses in the past.

Still, he doesn't realize how often he leaves Durant out of the motions.

I don't think the Heat is the right place for him, Wade is awesome, and what Westbrook does well is not needed there.

[Micku]

Lebron hasnt been the point guard in this series. Wade has. :confusedshrug:

No. They have a balance with LeBron having the ball in his hand the most.

Like in the playoffs, Westbrook has a 8.6 time of possession. This is per game in minutes. This is only second to Mike Conley in the playoffs. Westbrook holds the more than Chris Paul, Step Curry, and Tony Parker.

LeBron hold ToP is 5.1. And Wade is only 3.4. KD is only 3.1.

So, KD holds the ball less than LeBron or Wade.

You can check the stats here:
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingTouches.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=50&sortField=TOP&sortOrder=DES

I think you can safely assume that Westbrook is going to change his game playing with LeBron because unlike Durant, LeBron needs the ball in his hands to operate more. This will probably limit Westbrook apg and force Westbrook to play off the ball a bit more.

[Graviton]

No. They have a balance with LeBron having the ball in his hand the most.

Like in the playoffs, Westbrook has a 8.6 time of possession. This is per game in minutes. This is only second to Mike Conley in the playoffs. Westbrook holds the more than Chris Paul, Step Curry, and Tony Parker.

LeBron hold ToP is 5.1. And Wade is only 3.4. KD is only 3.1.

So, KD holds the ball less than LeBron or Wade.

You can check the stats here:
http://stats.nba.com/playerTrackingTouches.html?pageNo=1&rowsPerPage=50&sortField=TOP&sortOrder=DES

I think you can safely assume that Westbrook is going to change his game playing with LeBron because unlike Durant, LeBron needs the ball in his hands to operate more. This will probably limit Westbrook apg and force Westbrook to play off the ball a bit more.
Have you not seen Westbrook in the Olympics/Fiba? He focuses more on defense and off-ball cuts to the basket, he worked well with Rose/Durant then Lebron/Paul/Durant in 2012. He changes his role depending on what the team needs. People call him selfish but Russ above all cares about WINNING.

If he had someone like Spo(who yells at players and demands good defense and team ball movement) coaching him he would change his game accordingly. You forgot to mention Durant doesn't hold the ball because he can't handle the ball or pass like Lebron, he turns it over too often under pressure. Westbrook with Bosh/Lebron would have more options than Durant/Ibaka.

It's idiotic to assume a star player wouldn't change his game to suit the team's needs, especially one like Westbrook who has proven otherwise. Hell right now he has adapted from the 1st round series, instead of 24 shots he is taking 16, he is getting more assists and playing patiently. Lebron would only help his game.

[Solefade]

if westbrook had structure and more leadership around him he would clearly be the best point guard today

[Micku]

Have you not seen Westbrook in the Olympics/Fiba? He focuses more on defense and off-ball cuts to the basket, he worked well with Rose/Durant then Lebron/Paul/Durant in 2012. He changes his role depending on what the team needs. People call him selfish but Russ above all cares about WINNING.

If he had someone like Spo(who yells at players and demands good defense and team ball movement) coaching him he would change his game accordingly. You forgot to mention Durant doesn't hold the ball because he can't handle the ball or pass like Lebron, he turns it over too often under pressure. Westbrook with Bosh/Lebron would have more options than Durant/Ibaka.

It's idiotic to assume a star player wouldn't change his game to suit the team's needs, especially one like Westbrook who has proven otherwise. Hell right now he has adapted from the 1st round series, instead of 24 shots he is taking 16, he is getting more assists and playing patiently. Lebron would only help his game.

You got me there because I did not watch the Olympics/Fiba when he was on the team. But even with the Olympics, almost everyone perimeter player change their game a bit since they have to share the ball. It's different than the 82 long NBA season with the playoffs. Case in point, when the big 3 first got together. Wade and LeBron both needed the ball to be effective. It was a bit awkward, and it took them a while to figure out how to play well together. Even in the playoffs, they just played iso ball a lot, and beat teams on their talent.

With Westbrook, he holds the more more than LeBron and Wade. He won't get that many assists by playing with LBJ and his stats probably won't have a lot of volume, but maybe more efficient.

[Smoke117]

No. Lebron is the primary ball handler and Westbrook is one of the bigget ball hogs there is. Wade and Lebron work because Lebron is the main ball handler while Wade plays off the ball. When Lebron goes out Wade takes over the ball handling duties, but Westbricks ego would never let him play off the ball and not dominant the ball even with Lebron out there. It would be a complete mess.

Durant is more of an off the ball type player...which Lebron isn't. Lebron and Brick would be a ****ing travesty.

[iznogood]

I think Wade is better when it comes to moving without the ball, which is perfectly suited for LeBron's game. He's also smarter. If Westbrook improved his spot up shooting he'd be amazing on the Heat. I think he would fit very well in Miami's defense and he's a monster on the breakaway.

[Smoke117]

Westbrook is a poor mans prime Dwyane wade. Dwade aka 'flash' basically did whatever he wanted WHILE BEING IN CONTROL. Westbrook is more athletic than Wade, but he's a ****ing arrogant **** bastard. 'Flash' was fully in control and crazy with his ball handling, length, and finishing ability...in other words he played with intelligence and didnt' shoot 30 or so 3pters because his ego was out of control. Westbrook is nothing compared to Wade in his prime.
\

[J Shuttlesworth]

I think Westbrook would be better than current Dwade. We could really use that offensive rebounding he brings, and his fearlessness/drive is great. Also, Westbrook isn't a traditional PG and he could play well off ball while LeBron is running as PG.

[Graviton]

Westbrook is a poor mans prime Dwyane wade. Dwade aka 'flash' basically did whatever he wanted WHILE BEING IN CONTROL. Westbrook is more athletic than Wade, but he's a ****ing arrogant **** bastard. 'Flash' was fully in control and crazy with his ball handling, length, and finishing ability...in other words he played with intelligence and didnt' shoot 30 or so 3pters because his ego was out of control. Westbrook is nothing compared to Wade in his prime.
\
Sounds like you are making judgments based on your emotional feelings rather than actual logic. You seem to know a lot about Westbrook's ego and personality without actually ever meeting or talking to him or even studying his gameplay, or what coaches and teammates have to say about him. Armchair Nostradamus we got here. :oldlol:

Just in this 2nd round series Westbrook has played more in control and has talked about being patient post game, running their sets and waiting for the plays. He is not jacking up 3s like vs Memphis, he is only taking 16 shots. 16 ****ING SHOTS after taking 24 vs Grizzlies. His assists are up, turnovers down. Field Goal % way up. Last 3 games is the very definition of "Controlled Aggression".

If Westbrook played under Pop you would see a different beast. Playstyle isn't all on the player, there are 4 other players on the court that indirectly affect your game. The fact he shoots so much and plays out of control is a lot of times partly due to the team/coach standing around and not providing him the spacing or support to execute. Or the defense being too tight but your team not adjusting properly. You see the Spurs system? Bunch of scrubs and role players scoring open shots because Pop puts them in such position, he gets the most out of his players. Brooks on the other hand basically relies on Westbrook/Durant to create shit out of nothing. You can't just blindly blame the players alone. Look at how Miami played in 2011 compared to 2012/2013, look at how OKC played in 1st round compared to 2nd. Players change, gameplans change, Westbrook is out there trying to win not just hunt for glory and play for his ego. You need to stop living in 2011 and regurgitating bullshit from ESPN.

[Mure]

:biggums: Not sure if serious, of course they do lol.

[RightToCensor]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BnT_kGhIUAAiCCy.png

[sd3035]

It would be a brilliant move for the Heat's future but OKC would never do that

Wade is leaving his prime, Westbrook is entering his, they are at a crossroads right now with the sun setting for wheelchair Wade and rising for Westbrook

[Micku]

Sounds like you are making judgments based on your emotional feelings rather than actual logic. You seem to know a lot about Westbrook's ego and personality without actually ever meeting or talking to him or even studying his gameplay, or what coaches and teammates have to say about him. Armchair Nostradamus we got here. :oldlol:

Just in this 2nd round series Westbrook has played more in control and has talked about being patient post game, running their sets and waiting for the plays. He is not jacking up 3s like vs Memphis, he is only taking 16 shots. 16 ****ING SHOTS after taking 24 vs Grizzlies. His assists are up, turnovers down. Field Goal % way up. Last 3 games is the very definition of "Controlled Aggression".

If Westbrook played under Pop you would see a different beast. Playstyle isn't all on the player, there are 4 other players on the court that indirectly affect your game. The fact he shoots so much and plays out of control is a lot of times partly due to the team/coach standing around and not providing him the spacing or support to execute. Or the defense being too tight but your team not adjusting properly. You see the Spurs system? Bunch of scrubs and role players scoring open shots because Pop puts them in such position, he gets the most out of his players. Brooks on the other hand basically relies on Westbrook/Durant to create shit out of nothing. You can't just blindly blame the players alone. Look at how Miami played in 2011 compared to 2012/2013, look at how OKC played in 1st round compared to 2nd. Players change, gameplans change, Westbrook is out there trying to win not just hunt for glory and play for his ego. You need to stop living in 2011 and regurgitating bullshit from ESPN.

This has been a problem with Westbrook game for a while. It was like this in the Memphis series and throughout the year when he played. He shoot too much and he isn't efficient enough to take that a lot of shots. And it's mostly because he plays a lot of control with poor shot selection. In the Clippers series he is playing very well tho. But will he be consistent enough to do that if they get pass the Clippers? I don't know.

[Graviton]

This has been a problem with Westbrook game for a while. It was like this in the Memphis series and throughout the year when he played. He shoot too much and he isn't efficient enough to take that a lot of shots. And it's mostly because he plays a lot of control with poor shot selection. In the Clippers series he is playing very well tho. But will he be consistent enough to do that if they get pass the Clippers? I don't know.
He shot so much because Durant was getting murdered by Allen and couldn't even get free for passes. Westbrook also had issues with Conley/Gasol defense on the pick n roll, a lot of times the team was playing hot potato with the ball and he ended up jacking up 3s with like 5 seconds on the shotclock. Some of them were rushed shots, some were bailouts, some were the only thing left when Grizzlie's defense locked everyone down. Durant was bricking just as many 3s as Westbrook, Memphis just executed perfectly. Though Brooks finally made some adjustments and in Game 6/7 both stars stepped up.

It's on Brooks to keep making adjustments and running new plays, you are trying to put the focus on the driver. Scott is the mechanic responsible for the car, he needs to stay consistent above all. Westbrook/Durant are out there doing what HE tells them. In an ideal situation I would love to see Westbrook/Durant play for Pop just so people witness how much a real coach helps players get over the hump.

[Rocketswin2013]

Why do people think Westbrook is even a better player? Wade is not the athlete but much more sound defensively and a better defender. I don't think people realize it, but any die hard, realistic, OKC fan will tell you, Westbrook has fell off of a cliff defensively since 2012 and finds himself just gambling a hell of alot.


Wade is in control a ton and plays at different speeds now. But even NOW, still a better overrall player. Westbrook is just having a field day on a terrible perimeter defense and people are living in the moment.

[Graviton]

Why do people think Westbrook is even a better player? Wade is not the athlete but much more sound defensively and a better defender. I don't think people realize it, but any die hard, realistic, OKC fan will tell you, Westbrook has fell off of a cliff defensively since 2012 and finds himself just gambling a hell of alot.


Wade is in control a ton and plays at different speeds now. But even NOW, still a better overrall player. Westbrook is just having a field day on a terrible perimeter defense and people are living in the moment.
Westbrook is having a field day with a terrible perimeter defense but Wade is out there dominating defensive juggernauts like Bobcats and a perimeter defense consisting of the corpses of Deron Williams, JJ and Paul Pierce. :applause:

"Falling off a cliff defensively" would be James Harden in the 2014 playoffs good sir. Westbrook at worst is still playing good defense, fighting over screens, sticking to people and rebounding to secure possessions.

[Micku]

He shot so much because Durant was getting murdered by Allen and couldn't even get free for passes. Westbrook also had issues with Conley/Gasol defense on the pick n roll, a lot of times the team was playing hot potato with the ball and he ended up jacking up 3s with like 5 seconds on the shotclock. Some of them were rushed shots, some were bailouts, some were the only thing left when Grizzlie's defense locked everyone down. Durant was bricking just as many 3s as Westbrook, Memphis just executed perfectly. Though Brooks finally made some adjustments and in Game 6/7 both stars stepped up.

Westbrook also attempted some stupid shots. There were times where he would run down the court and just jack up a contested 3. There were times where OKC would happen to get the offensive rebound, pass it back to Westbrook and he'll shoot some crazy contested 3 with 20 secs on the shot clock. Obviously it missed. The dude average 6 3PAs and only average 23.8% What the hell is that?

And it's not like he is a great 3pt shooter anyway. But he always had this problem. He average 4.7 3PA for the season and only makes 31.8%. He takes very poor shots. There are times where he just waste a possession. Sometimes he forgets to be a playmaker like a point guard. Granted, KD wasn't shooting that well from the field either, but you would rather have KD shoot than Westbrook. I think Conley even said that they prefer Westbrook to shoot than KD for obvious reasons.


It's on Brooks to keep making adjustments and running new plays, you are trying to put the focus on the driver. Scott is the mechanic responsible for the car, he needs to stay consistent above all. Westbrook/Durant are out there doing what HE tells them. In an ideal situation I would love to see Westbrook/Durant play for Pop just so people witness how much a real coach helps players get over the hump.

I think so too. But Pop is the best coach in the league. You probably say insert random player A and random player B to Pop and they'll get better.

Westbrook has a lot of potential. He could be better than what he is if he was coached better or had a better b-ball IQ.

[Rocketswin2013]

Westbrook is having a field day with a terrible perimeter defense but Wade is out there dominating defensive juggernauts like Bobcats and a perimeter defense consisting of the corpses of Deron Williams, JJ and Paul Pierce. :applause:

"Falling off a cliff defensively" would be James Harden in the 2014 playoffs good sir. Westbrook at worst is still playing good defense, fighting over screens, sticking to people and rebounding to secure possessions.
LOL Yikes. CP3 is having a field day on this dude on PNR's. And come on now, Westbrook's off ball D is just cringe worthy to say the least. He can't conistently stay in front of anybody either.

But you do have it right, his weakside rebounding to finish posessions is something else. Realistically, I'd give him a C- thru B on D at best. Dude is not what people make him out to be. And he has been reaching all series on the best ballhandler in the world(0 TO's last game) taking himself out of plays and letting them swing the ball. Both teams have been terrible defensively IMO.

Only in this case, Westbrook has been doing ALL YEAR.

http://dailythunder.com/2014/03/practice-report-russell-westbrook-gets-honest-about-defense/

He even said it himself. Wade on the other hand is underrated in this regard and still all around good if not great.

All this said, Westbrook is still a great on ball defender when engaged but we haven't seen that yet. Overrated though without question.

[Graviton]

I think so too. But Pop is the best coach in the league. You probably say insert random player A and random player B to Pop and they'll get better.

Westbrook has a lot of potential. He could be better than what he is if he was coached better or had a better b-ball IQ.
But you saw what Pop turned Tony Parker into, and Parker isn't even that amazing individually but Pop makes him a Top 5 PG.

Now imagine that amazing coach with Prime Durant and Westbrook, that's is the best combo for Pop to work with in the current league. You have Durant's calm coldness and quiet student attitude with Westbrook's fire and relentless dirve. Pop would harness those 2 forces and channel their talents in a positive manner, creating an unstoppable offensive system but also applying their skills into defense as well. Spurs FO is also even better than OKC with drafting and free agent signing, they could create a dynasty with Pop and Westbrook+Durant.

[IGOTGAME]

Westbrook is on an entirely different level than Wade right now. Guy is right there with KD.

[Budadiiii]

Not at all. Losing Wade would destroy Miami's stifling perimeter defense that is a massive part of the team's identity. They would also lose a better passer/decision maker on offense, which is important considering this teams offensive success is predicated around ball movement.

Brook would be a terrible fit alongside Lebron.
*Slow clap*

[Graviton]

LOL Yikes. CP3 is having a field day on this dude on PNR's. And come on now, Westbrook's off ball D is just cringe worthy to say the least. He can't conistently stay in front of anybody either.

But you do have it right, his weakside rebounding to finish posessions is something else. Realistically, I'd give him a C- thru B on D at best. Dude is not what people make him out to be. And he has been reaching all series on the best ballhandler in the world(0 TO's last game) taking himself out of plays and letting them swing the ball. Both teams have been terrible defensively IMO.

Only in this case, Westbrook has been doing ALL YEAR.

http://dailythunder.com/2014/03/practice-report-russell-westbrook-gets-honest-about-defense/

He even said it himself. Wade on the other hand is underrated in this regard and still all around good if not great.

All this said, Westbrook is still a great on ball defender when engaged but we haven't seen that yet. Overrated though without question.

I agree he has been reaching a lot, but him fighting over screens has gotten OKC lot of offensive foul calls. He also "lets" Paul blow by him just so he can recover and come from behind for a block. Plenty of times I saw Paul get past Westbrook but as soon as he got near the rim he saw Westbrook right behind him and passed instead of trying to lay it in.

But then again Paul uses shitload of screens to get free, hard to stick to Paul forever. But when 1v1, Paul struggles vs Westbrook's length but on the other end Russ blows by Paul at will or posts his ass up. Usually both of them use screens to get switches, but Westbrook so far has the edge because he forces more fouls and double teams.

Now you gotta take into account both of them have to spend most their energy on offense and carry a huge load, they can't waste as much on defense. In the Olympics you saw Westbrook basically come off the bench and terrorize guards with his pressure defense, that was an engaged Westbrook. I don't think he can be that for 4 quarters, maybe for a stretch in the 4th though.

[K Xerxes]

I think a major point everyone is overlooking is that Westbrook actually gets a fairly competent coach now. Now, I'm definitely not saying Spo sets the world on fire with his genius offensive sets, but he at least calls more plays than Brooks and encourages ball movement. I believe Westbrook's chucking is partly down to Brooks' abuse of iso ball. Spo has a better chance of instilling some discipline into him.

Westbrook needs a good coach. His potential is scary (top 3 IMO) as he is unstoppable when his head is right. Just needs to play more controlled.

[Budadiiii]

I think a major point everyone is overlooking is that Westbrook actually gets a fairly competent coach now. Now, I'm definitely not saying Spo sets the world on fire with his genius offensive sets, but he at least calls more plays than Brooks and encourages ball movement. I believe Westbrook's chucking is partly down to Brooks' abuse of iso ball. Spo has a better chance of instilling some discipline into him.

Westbrook needs a good coach. His potential is scary (top 3 IMO) as he is unstoppable when his head is right. Just needs to play more controlled.
Westbrook will never be a consistently efficient scorer. That's his biggest issue. He's just not that talented of a scorer. Obviously he makes up for it with insane athleticism and drive, but still, his ball handling, jump shooting, passing, and finishing all comes down to genetic talent that he'll never have.

[DaSeba5]

Westbrook would turn into a spot up shooter who averages 18 ppg so no.

:facepalm

Yah because that's what Wade is