Swap Prime Rose and current Westbrook..Who's better?

[Solefade]

Been hearing a lot about how WB isn't that good, he's holding KD back and that prime Rose (2011) is way better and this bothers me.

Say prime Rose and Westbrook swapped places. Westbrook who can pretty much do anything Rose can with maybe a few more turn overs playing in a jungle ball system with KD but pretty much hasthe same driving/shooting/play making ability...wouldn't the bulls be way better? He comes into a system where even Jon Lucas 3 and CJ Watson are successful enough to maintain a number 1 seed for them (a la 2012)...

WB with a structured offense and a coach with a stronger personality would turn him into the best PG in the league.

[Rik Smits' Hair]

What was Rose's prime :oldlol:

[Demitri98]

Rose has much, much better control than Westbrook has. Rose would be more willing to give it to KD on the wing, I think Rose + Durant would've beat the Heat in 2012.

[Solefade]

2011? :confusedshrug:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

It's close. Westbrook has been the Thunder's best player this post season easily and this is coming from someone who was really high on KD during the regular season.

[BasedTom]

Didn't Westbrook only miss like 1 game ever in his career until Patrick Beverley injured him last year? Or am I thinking of someone else.

[inclinerator]

d rose defense is 100x worse

[JohnMax]

Rose was shutdown by Heat defense. I'd be scared he goes James Harden on me.

[russwest0]

Westbrook even put up better numbers than Rose during 2011 when Rose won the MVP.

This one isn't close.

[ForeverHeat]

Westbrook has become better than Rose ever was skills wise. Rose is more intelligent at running an offense though.

[ImKobe]

current Westbrook is literally better at everything than 2011 Rose, the only thing you could dispute is Rose's finishing ability, but Westbrook is a better rebounder, passer and a scorer. On the defensive end, Rose doesn't even come close.

Westbrook putting up 26/9/8/2 in this year's Playoffs, after coming off multiple knee surgeries this season...Rose is a bitch

[pegasus]

People are forgetting how automatic Rose's midrange was before he tried to incorporate the 3-ball into his game. At that point he was better than WB has ever been, because he's always been the better slasher/attacker/finisher at the rim. WB can get to the rim whenever he wants but he is not as good at finishing. Plus, Rose has always been in much more control.

[SCdac]

People are forgetting how automatic Rose's midrange was before he tried to incorporate the 3-ball into his game. At that point he was better than WB has ever been, because he's always been the better slasher/attacker/finisher at the rim. WB can get to the rim whenever he wants but he is not as good at finishing. Plus, Rose has always been in much more control.

People are also forgetting that in 2011 Derrick Rose shot .355 % from three point line in the Bulls' 62 wins and was clutch as hell.

Rose was amazing in his MVP season and was doing it with the defenses focusing solely on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t_bSn2bh9Q

Personally, i think they're extremely close in rankings, but WB also gets to play with Durant so it's a factor.

[Jameerthefear]

Westbrook. Rose is the worst MVP of alltime.

[Pointguard]

I think its real close now. Rose could control a game way better than Westbrook does now. Westbrook is wild and gets carried away in the moment. Rose team had the best record in the league and he didn't have another dependable offensive player on his team and a team that was inferior to this OKC team. OKC could probably have the best record in the league without Westbrook. But this Westbrook could function very well with that "11 Bulls team. Probably in identical fashion as Rose did. Having one of the best scorers ever on the team is very different than not knowing who is going to score night to night.

[aj1987]

Westbrook even put up better numbers than Rose during 2011 when Rose won the MVP.

This one isn't close.
Making shit up again? You do know that it takes people like a minute to look up their stats, right?

Westbrick - 22/5/8/2 on 54% TS
Rose - 25/4/8/1/1 on 55% TS

Yeah, not even close. :oldlol:

[red1]

mvp rose was no better than current westbrook

[Jlamb47]

Westbrook now is top 3 nba player IMO behind KD and Bron
Dude does everything on the court. Only thing Rose had was a little better control but other then that WR does everything.

[russwest0]

Making shit up again? You do know that it takes people like a minute to look up their stats, right?

Westbrick - 22/5/8/2 on 54% TS
Rose - 25/4/8/1/1 on 55% TS

Yeah, not even close. :oldlol:

so a few more points and 1 higher TS% yet being worse at almost everything else means you are better and it's not even close?

damn, not only was KD the best player this season, he was also the best last season and it wasn't even close :bowdown:

[aj1987]

so a few more points and 1 higher TS% yet being worse at almost everything else means you are better and it's not even close?

damn, not only was KD the best player this season, he was also the best last season and it wasn't even close :bowdown:
God, you're retarded. Rose averaged 3 points more on a team which was the #1 seed in the NBA. Only averaged 1 rebound and 1 steal fewer than Westbrick. To say that Westbrick had the better stats "and it's not even close" is just asinine. You honestly can't believe that Westbrick would've lead that team to the #1 seed.

Last seasons KD and Bron's numbers:

Durant: 28/8/5/1/1 on 65% TS
LeBron: 27/8/7/2/1 on 64% TS

The only think that Durant did better was score one point more on 1% better efficiency. LeBron was/is and will always be a better offensive player though.

This season, KD had significantly better numbers and that's pretty obvious. I've given him props for this season.

OKHicks are dumb as ****.

[Graviton]

I have watched both of them for years, they are my 2 favorite NBA players. I can list what each has over the other.

Rose had better body control and could get in the paint and make an acrobatic layup with 4 guys around him. He had one of the best floaters in the league, his signature "Push shot" he could get off over anyone. I remember a game at Washington when he came down the court and splashed those mid range floaters in John Wall's face over and over, their announcers were going nuts. Rose was just the better overall offensive player.

Now defensively people shit on Rose but he was a good man to man defender, you never heard of any PGs going off against him because he was strong enough to stop their drives and contest shots without fouling. All the advanced stats in 2011 showed that Rose was the best defender at the PG position, and the best shot blocking PG too. You may say "Oh but he is on the best defensive team in the league and his stats are skewed", but his stats sure as hell weren't skewed when you checked his defensive numbers on defending Isolations. And I never heard people saying "Oh Rondo was in 2008 Celtics with KG/Perkins his defense isn't good".



Now Westbrook is more of a relentless force and WILL attack the basket and try to dunk on your soul, so he draws more contact and gets bigs in foul trouble. He has a smooth mid range pullup when he takes it in rhythm instead of rushing. He can post up PGs and shoot over them, or get straight to the rim. He is more dynamic on the fastbreak as well.

Defensively Westbrook is just a hound, his pressure on the perimeter when he is engaged is second to none. His rebounding is also key to ending possessions, he can sky over bigs to grab important offensive boards or secure them on defense.


I think Rose was slightly better, but they are basically twins body/talent wise. Now mentally it's a whole different story.

[Heatles201]

Rose has much, much better control than Westbrook has. Rose would be more willing to give it to KD on the wing, I think Rose + Durant would've beat the Heat in 2012.

doubt it. Rose was pretty much shut down by the Heat in 2011 ECF and by shut down i mean he was not playing to his "MVP" level, Westbrook had a few iffy moments in final but his game 4 Performance was a ALL TIME great

[nathanjizzle]

so a few more points and 1 higher TS% yet being worse at almost everything else means you are better and it's not even close?

damn, not only was KD the best player this season, he was also the best last season and it wasn't even close :bowdown:

brew, rose averaged 28.5 points and 7 assists against the top 8 teams in the league that season. westbrook was below 20 points and 6 assist. huge difference, and their still is a huge difference, only low basketball iq people cant tell.

[LongLiveTheKing]

Westbrook is better in the playoffs.

[SillyRabbit]

Making shit up again? You do know that it takes people like a minute to look up their stats, right?

Westbrick - 22/5/8/2 on 54% TS
Rose - 25/4/8/1/1 on 55% TS

Yeah, not even close. :oldlol:

Lol @ calling him out for not looking up the stats when you literally just made yours up.

CURRENT Westbrook means PLAYOFF Westbrook.

The legitimate stats from NBA.com (anything under 0.5 is rounded down, anything over 0.5 is rounded up):

Westbrook: 26/8/9/2 on 53% TS
Rose: 25/8/4/1 on 55% TS

Westbrook 1 more PPG, same RPG, 4 more APG, 1 more SPG, on 2% less TS.

Current Westbrook is undoubtedly better than prime Derrick Rose.

[Milbuck]

Lol @ calling him out for not looking up the stats when you literally just made yours up.

CURRENT Westbrook means PLAYOFF Westbrook.

The legitimate stats from NBA.com (anything under 0.5 is rounded down, anything over 0.5 is rounded up):

Westbrook: 26/8/9/2 on 53% TS
Rose: 25/8/4/1 on 55% TS

Westbrook 1 more PPG, same RPG, 4 more APG, 1 more SPG, on 2% less TS.

Current Westbrook is undoubtedly better than prime Derrick Rose.
1) You just jumped in the middle of the argument with no context. He was responding to the argument that 2011 Westbrook outplayed MVP, 2011, Rose. Hence, him using RW and Rose's 2011 stats.

2) If you're gonna use Russ's playoff stats, why not Rose's playoff stats? Why the inconsistency? Rose put up 27/4/8/1 on 50% TS. And this is when Rose is the singular focal point of the opposing defense every. single. night. While Westbrook is allowed to take 22+ shots with the comfort of having Durant there to make things substantially easier. This is including the Miami series, when Rose was literally the only competent scoring option against one of the most vicious perimeter trapping defenses we've ever seen. While Westbrook has one of the greatest scorers of all-time on his team to take the pressure off.

For even more consistency, why don't we compare Rose and Westbrook through the first 2 rounds? If current information is what you want, we have to keep it consistent, don't we? Rose through the first 2 rounds, which is where current Westbrook is at, averaged 29/5/8/2/1 on 53% TS.

I'd probably take current Westbrook, but people acting like it isn't even close are blatantly forgetting just how ****ing good MVP Rose was. He wasn't quite a Durant-Lebron caliber player, but as a point guard, he was absurdly good.

[russwest0]

God, you're retarded. Rose averaged 3 points more on a team which was the #1 seed in the NBA. Only averaged 1 rebound and 1 steal fewer than Westbrick. To say that Westbrick had the better stats "and it's not even close" is just asinine. You honestly can't believe that Westbrick would've lead that team to the #1 seed.

Last seasons KD and Bron's numbers:

Durant: 28/8/5/1/1 on 65% TS
LeBron: 27/8/7/2/1 on 64% TS

The only think that Durant did better was score one point more on 1% better efficiency. LeBron was/is and will always be a better offensive player though.

This season, KD had significantly better numbers and that's pretty obvious. I've given him props for this season.

OKHicks are dumb as ****.

Where did I say Westbrook had better numbers and it wasn't even close? You are the only who said "it isn't even close" and that was in regards to your opinion that Rose had better numbers.

I said Westbrook had better numbers but it's about as close as you can get and the stats you posted show that. I think their PER's were almost identical that year.

And if you want to bring up intangibles like playing for the #1 seed (in the East and for a coach that runs his rotation like it's game 7 of the finals all the time) then you might as well bring up Westbrook being a noticeably better defender, rebounder, and leader as well.

[LoneyROY7]

Easily Rose.

[JohnFreeman]

People forgetting how good Rose was.

[JohnMax]

Derrick Rose was shutdown by Miami Heat defense.

Westbrook has not. The Durant excuse does not count since that didn't help James Harden.

[imdaman99]

Westbrook is unguardable. Can't say samething about Rose.

He's closer to James Harden and can be shutdown (see 2011 Miami Heat defense).
The only person that can guard Westbrook.... is Westbrook :oldlol:

[SCdac]

How good would prime Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose be? .. Could see them making the Finals for sure.

[JohnFreeman]

Difference is, you have to defend Rose. Westbrook you can leave open because he will shoot his team out the game.

[Milbuck]

Derrick Rose was shutdown by Miami Heat defense.

Westbrook has not. The Durant excuse does not count since that didn't help James Harden.
How the hell is that an excuse? Westbrook has a guy who, barring injury, is probably going to be top 5 all-time in scoring. And that's shooting low with a prediction as well. That takes an enormous amount of pressure off. Teams, specifically Miami, trapped the shit out of Rose because they knew he was the only player on that team who, offensively, was worth a damn. They can never do that with Westbrook. James Harden not benefiting from Durant says nothing about Durant or Westbrook...all it does is confirm what I've been saying all along - James Harden sucks ass, period.

How good would prime Kevin Durant and Derrick Rose be? .. Could see them making the Finals for sure.
Anyone who thinks that OKC wouldn't make the finals in 2012 if you swapped MVP Rose for Westbrook is out of their mind.

2011 Rose was a flat out nightmare for the opposition.

[Inferno]

Rose.

[aj1987]

Where did I say Westbrook had better numbers and it wasn't even close? You are the only who said "it isn't even close" and that was in regards to your opinion that Rose had better numbers.

I said Westbrook had better numbers but it's about as close as you can get and the stats you posted show that. I think their PER's were almost identical that year.
Misread that part. My bad.

Still, Rose scored 3 points more on better efficiency with fewer turnovers, while averaging only 1 steal and 1 rebound less than Westboook. No, Westbrook didn't have better numbers.


And if you want to bring up intangibles like playing for the #1 seed (in the East and for a coach that runs his rotation like it's game 7 of the finals all the time) then you might as well bring up Westbrook being a noticeably better defender, rebounder, and leader as well.
:oldlol:

Westbrook had KD, who was 2nd in the MVP voting, Ibaka, who was 2nd in DPOY voting, and 6th man of the year in Harden.


Lol @ calling him out for not looking up the stats when you literally just made yours up.
I'm not gonna make fun of you, since I misread Russ's post as well. Anyways, we were talking about their '11 stats.


Westbrook: 26/8/9/2 on 53% TS
Rose: 25/8/4/1 on 55% TS

Westbrook 1 more PPG, same RPG, 4 more APG, 1 more SPG, on 2% less TS.
You do know that Rose averaged 8 ASSISTS and 4 REBOUNDS, right?


Current Westbrook is undoubtedly better than prime Derrick Rose.
Not really, in the first two rounds of the '11 playoffs, Rose averaged 29/5/8/2/1 on 53% TS.

[Graviton]

Rose seems to be some 60s player here, people already forgot how good he was in 2011. :(

[iBandwagon]

I'd take Rose. Thunder would have won game 4.

[TheMilkyBarKid]

Give me rose, I would bet he would average over 10 apg with a scorer like durant for a teammate

[shallehalle]

Rose seems to be some 60s player here, people already forgot how good he was in 2011. :(
:oldlol:

[Alan Ogg]

I hate Rose and like Westbrook, but prime Rose is definitely better than current Westbrook.

[JohnMax]

I hate Rose and like Westbrook, but prime Rose is definitely better than current Westbrook.

Says a Heat fan who's team shutdown Rose.

[aj1987]

Rose seems to be some 60s player here, people already forgot how good he was in 2011. :(
I hate Rose and the Bulls, but dude was (and still might be) a HOF level player. Dude was a beast.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

There isnt a huge difference but Rose is better b/c hes smarter on offense and defense

[Mure]

Westbrook has been the best player for OKC these playoffs. Westbrook > Rose.

[aj1987]

Westbrook has been the best player for OKC these playoffs. Westbrook > Rose.
Rose was the focal point of most defenses, as the dude was the only offensive threat on the Bulls. Westbrook has another great offensive player in KD to take some off the defensive pressure off of him.

You guys do realize that he won an MVP (although I still don't believe that he truly deserved it), right?

[97 bulls]

I dont think we've seen Roses prime.

Based on what we have seen, heres the difference. Rose is in control much more often tha Westbrook. Rose also draws the other teams best player on defense. I shutter to think what would've happened if Tony Allen defended Westbrook. Thats a luxury that Rose never had.