If Dirk won the title in 2006, where would he rank all-time?

[Black and White]

That would give him 2 rings and 2 FMVPs.

Where would you rank him all-time?

[Black and White]

Probably Top 15, maybe borderline top 10. He would've had to play better though because I remember he didn't really play well that series besides 2/3 games.

I would say he ranks behind Hakeem, and yea, I think he was averaging around the same points as Terry, context is important though, as he was the main source of offense.

[creepingdeath]

If he had won the title in 2006, 2011 would not have happened. On the other hand, neither would the GSW desaster in 2007, so who knows how things had turned out...

[~primetime~]

but he DID win the title in 06

[Cone]

in my books he has 2 rings. so around top 15.

[$LakerGold]

Not in order:

Kobe
Timmy
x
Dirk

Or

Kobe
Timmy
x
y
Dirk.

[SCdac]

He'd be ranked higher, for sure. Top-15 securely. But would he have that same "hunger" and desperation to win in 2011 I wonder.

Conversely, if Lebron doesn't get punked by Shawn Marion and Stevenson, where does Dirk rank with no rings and being 0-2 in the Finals?

Lots of "what ifs" could be created, for sure.

[aj1987]

Dude was never good defensively. He was amazing offensively, but that's a huge issue, when ranking players. Top 15 if you're being liberal.

We have Wade, who's not even on some people's top 20, while being top 10 in DPOY rankings a couple of times and having 3 rings and an FMVP.

[ArbitraryWater]

If he had won the title in 2006, 2011 would not have happened. On the other hand, neither would the GSW desaster in 2007, so who knows how things had turned out...

Why wouldnt 2011 have happened?

In fact, I think they would have won in 2007 as well..

[Black and White]

Dude was never good defensively. He was amazing offensively, but that's a huge issue, when ranking players. Top 15 if you're being liberal.

Hey aj, how have you been, haven't seen you around bro.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron joins Dirk instead of Wade.

Wade, Bosh & Melo embarrass Dallas in 11

Dirk is heard mumbling what are thought to be racist remarks towards Lebron in game 4. This is used as the excuse for Lebrons poor play.

Dirk is blackballed from the league while Lebron is praised for overcoming racism & is given the option by stern to leave the Mavs and join another team of his choosing regardless of the salary cap.

Bran joins Miami. The rest is history.

It's a good thing they didnt win.

[SCdac]

Lebron joins Dirk instead of Wade.

Wade, Bosh & Melo embarrass Dallas in 11

Dirk is heard mumbling what are though to be racist remarks towards Lebron in game 4. This is used as the excuse for Lebrons poor play.

Dirk is blackballed from the league while Lebron is praised for overcoming racism & is given the option by stern to leave the Mavs and join another team of his choosing regardless of the salary cap.

Bran joins Miami. The rest is history.

It's a good thing they didnt win.

But didn't Dirk marry a Black girl? ... that makes no sense lol

[~primetime~]

Dude was never good defensively. He was amazing offensively, but that's a huge issue, when ranking players. Top 15 if you're being liberal.
Dirk was never elite defensively but also never pure garbage on D like some around here would have you believe

he probably qualifies as "average" on D

[SilkkTheShocker]

Lebron joins Dirk instead of Wade.

Wade, Bosh & Melo embarrass Dallas in 11

Dirk is heard mumbling what are thought to be racist remarks towards Lebron in game 4. This is used as the excuse for Lebrons poor play.

Dirk is blackballed from the league while Lebron is praised for overcoming racism & is given the option by stern to leave the Mavs and join another team of his choosing regardless of the salary cap.

Bran joins Miami. The rest is history.

It's a good thing they didnt win.

LeBron>>>>Kobe all-time. Let it go, Corky.

[the mesiah]

Top 15 sounds bout rite ,

[aj1987]

Hey aj, how have you been, haven't seen you around bro.
Good. Have been traveling a bit.


Dirk was never elite defensively but also never pure garbage on D like some around here would have you believe

he probably qualifies as "average" on D

I didn't say he was garbage, but he was average at best though.


But didn't Dirk marry a Black girl? ... that makes no sense lol

TheMarkMadsen not making sense? That's a shocker!

[Black and White]

Lebron joins Dirk instead of Wade.

Wade, Bosh & Melo embarrass Dallas in 11

Dirk is heard mumbling what are thought to be racist remarks towards Lebron in game 4. This is used as the excuse for Lebrons poor play.

Dirk is blackballed from the league while Lebron is praised for overcoming racism & is given the option by stern to leave the Mavs and join another team of his choosing regardless of the salary cap.

Bran joins Miami. The rest is history.

It's a good thing they didnt win.

LOL, interesting story you have there.

[DMAVS41]

Honestly probably around the same.

Somewhere in the top 20.

The thing holding Dirk back from top 10 or so all time is not resume in my opinion, it's level of play.

He simply wasn't as good as a guy like Hakeem or Duncan or Lebron or Shaq...etc.

He would have to have a "Kobe type" resume to get in the top 10. And it wouldn't be a lock with that either as Kobe is likely out of the top 10 on a lot of lists now anyway.

[aj1987]

Honestly probably around the same.

Somewhere in the top 20.

The thing holding Dirk back from top 10 or so all time is not resume in my opinion, it's level of play.

He simply wasn't as good as a guy like Hakeem or Duncan or Lebron or Shaq...etc.

He would have to have a "Kobe type" resume to get in the top 10. And it wouldn't be a lock with that either as Kobe is likely out of the top 10 on a lot of lists now anyway.
IMO, with a couple of All-D teams, he'd be in the top 12 range with 2 rings and 2 FMVP's.

[TheMarkMadsen]

But didn't Dirk marry a Black girl? ... that makes no sense lol


Dirk is never given a chance to clear it up himself as the media whole heartedly supports Lebron and his battles with racism.

Rumors are spread that Dirk only married his wife because he gets off on dominating black women, their marriage struggles amist all the rumors, feeling pressure from her family she decide to divorce Dirk.

She writes a tell all book and completely slanders Dirks name, all of what she says is false of course but by this time the media hates Dirk so much that nobody cares to fact check.. Book is becomes a NY times best seller. She makes
millions..

In a landmark court case Dirk is ordered to pay reparations to his now former wife and her entire immediate family..

Dirk heads back to Germany and is never seen or heard from again until Espn does a 30 for 30 on him 20 years later.


Dirk really dodged a bullet by losing in 06.

[Black and White]

Honestly probably around the same.

Somewhere in the top 20.

The thing holding Dirk back from top 10 or so all time is not resume in my opinion, it's level of play.

He simply wasn't as good as a guy like Hakeem or Duncan or Lebron or Shaq...etc.

He would have to have a "Kobe type" resume to get in the top 10. And it wouldn't be a lock with that either as Kobe is likely out of the top 10 on a lot of lists now anyway.

I don't think 12-15 is a strech with 2 FMVPs and a decent resume, he has won an MVP, has plenty of career accolades and his longevity has to count for something.

[DMAVS41]

IMO, with a couple of All-D teams, he'd be in the top 12 range with 2 rings and 2 FMVP's.

Dirk could never and should never have made an all Defensive team though.

Ultimately, even with great resumes, players tend to get ranked properly in my opinion...especially as time passes.

You see it with Kobe now. He's dropping out of the top 10 as Lebron improves his resume to go along with just being a better basketball player (imo)...

Think about how great Kobe was...and a 5 titles and 2 finals mvps, regular season mvp, great longevity, great numbers, all defense selections...

And he'll be most likely out of the top 10 in a handful of years.

So I just don't see Dirk ever getting that status with a worse resume than a guy like Kobe.

Dirk is right where he should be all time in the rankings and an extra title in 06 would not move the needle either way much at all.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think 12-15 is a strech with 2 FMVPs and a decent resume, he has won an MVP, has plenty of career accolades and his longevity has to count for something.

I didn't say it was a stretch. You could argue that right now though. An extra title in 06 doesn't change much at all.

Like I said, he's somewhere in the top 20. Definitely not top 11 in my opinion...after that...meh...really just personal preference with so many of the guys populating those lists like Hondo, Pettit, Dr. J, West, Moses, Oscar, Baylor, Malone, Barkley, KG,...etc.

Dirk is on that level in my opinion. Some guys were better, some guys were worse....

[T_L_P]

10: Kobe
11: Moses
12: West
13: Wilt
14: Dirk

Assuming he won in '06 and '11.

[Black and White]

I didn't say it was a stretch. You could argue that right now though. An extra title in 06 doesn't change much at all.

Like I said, he's somewhere in the top 20. Definitely not top 11 in my opinion...after that...meh...really just personal preference with so many of the guys populating those lists like Hondo, Pettit, Dr. J, West, Moses, Oscar, Baylor, Malone, Barkley, KG,...etc.

Dirk is on that level in my opinion. Some guys were better, some guys were worse....

Yea you are right, I guess it just comes down to personal preference in that tier, some may weigh rings heavier, so Dirk will be ranked higher than guys like Barkley, KG etc, but then people that put stock into level of play will rank him lower etc, its all subjective, I would think that our views on Dirk would change a little though.

[BasedTom]

These "If ______ happened, where would ____ rank" threads are stupid because there's a million different variables. If Dirk wins in 2006, how likely is it that 2011 happens exactly the same way as well?

If Brian Scalabrine scored 101 pts in a game, where would he rank all time? If Charles Barkely came out of retirement and signed with the Heat and won a ring where would he rank all time? If Len Bias got HIV and Magic overdosed after being drafted, how many rings do the Celtics have?

[aj1987]

Dirk could never and should never have made an all Defensive team though.
I know that, but if he was good defensively, and made a couple of All-D teams, he would definitely be in my top 12 (with 2 rings and FMVP's, of course).

[T_L_P]

These "If ______ happened, where would ____ rank" threads are stupid because there's a million different variables. If Dirk wins in 2006, how likely is it that 2011 happens exactly the same way as well?

If Brian Scalabrine scored 101 pts in a game, where would he rank all time? If Charles Barkely came out of retirement and signed with the Heat and won a ring where would he rank all time?

Make some threads on them bro. Would love to see the responses. :cheers:

[SCdac]

These "If ______ happened, where would ____ rank" threads are stupid because there's a million different variables. If Dirk wins in 2006, how likely is it that 2011 happens exactly the same way as well?

If Brian Scalabrine scored 101 pts in a game, where would he rank all time? If Charles Barkely came out of retirement and signed with the Heat and won a ring where would he rank all time? If Len Bias got HIV and Magic overdosed after being drafted, how many rings do the Celtics have?

They're definitely dumb. You can make any player seem greater/worse than they are. There seems to be alot of denial in these threads too "Dirk actually did win 2 championships according to me" or "Sacramento Kings were the real winner against the Lakers", etc. But, it's always fun to imagine how things would have been had x, y, and z happened.

[Black and White]

These "If ______ happened, where would ____ rank" threads are stupid because there's a million different variables. If Dirk wins in 2006, how likely is it that 2011 happens exactly the same way as well?

If Brian Scalabrine scored 101 pts in a game, where would he rank all time? If Charles Barkely came out of retirement and signed with the Heat and won a ring where would he rank all time? If Len Bias got HIV and Magic overdosed after being drafted, how many rings do the Celtics have?

The scenario I put forth could have happened, its not like I changed a whole lot of things, its actually pretty realistic, its like saying if the Spurs won the title last year, because that could have easy happened if one shot didnt fall....

[BasedTom]

The scenario I put forth could have happened, its not like I changed a whole lot of things, its actually pretty realistic, its like saying if the Spurs won the title last year, because that could have easy happened if one shot didnt fall....
Many things could have "easily happened" if certain knees didn't explode, if a shot were released a milisecond earlier, or if a player had been in a slightly different position.

You can't just crown Dirk a two time champion so easy. There's a 5 year gap in between the two titles. Would the 2011 Mavs and Heat rosters looked the same way it did if the Mavs won in 06? Would the teams drafted different players in between or made different trades or hired different coaches?

If KG wins a title with the Wolves, how many rings and FMVPs does Paul Pierce finish with? You probably can see why these kind of what ifs are worthless.

[Black and White]

Many things could have "easily happened" if certain knees didn't explode, if a shot were released a milisecond earlier, or if a player had been in a slightly different position.

You can't just crown Dirk a two time champion so easy. There's a 5 year gap in between the two titles. Would the 2011 Mavs and Heat rosters looked the same way it did if the Mavs won in 06? Would the teams drafted different players in between or made different trades or hired different coaches?

If KG wins a title with the Wolves, how many rings and FMVPs does Paul Pierce finish with? You probably can see why these kind of what ifs are worthless.

This one is a little more simple than a what if LeBron 4-peats thread if you get what I mean, but I see your point, I just thought it was a good topic to debate on rather than the usual LeBron/Durant/Kobe stuff.

[TheBigVeto]

Top 5.

[SexSymbol]

Above Wilt that's for sure.
Below Kobe Duncan
top 8-10 range

[CeilingFan#1]

Wade would then be ranked lower, which would maybe make LeBron's Cleveland bail not look "as" bad.

[goldcrow]

These "If ______ happened, where would ____ rank" threads are stupid because there's a million different variables. If Dirk wins in 2006, how likely is it that 2011 happens exactly the same way as well?

If Brian Scalabrine scored 101 pts in a game, where would he rank all time? If Charles Barkely came out of retirement and signed with the Heat and won a ring where would he rank all time? If Len Bias got HIV and Magic overdosed after being drafted, how many rings do the Celtics have?

Word. :cheers: People tend to forget Dirk played on video-game mode in 2011 because time was running out for him to get that ring. If he did win it all in 2006, he most likely will not play at the same level as in 2011 since the pressure for him to win isn't as great anymore. :confusedshrug:

To answer the question though, he'll be ranked within the top 10-15 range, 2nd best PF of all time. Currently, he's on the 15-20 for me. This is coming from a Dirk stan btw.