Why do teams "owe" long time veterans anthing?

[Akrazotile]

I always hear people say if the Heat traded Wade or if they don't re-sign him, Heat fans will go nuts. But the truth is they could probably find a better fit beside Lebron at this point. People say the Lakers "owe it" to Kobe to consult him on coach hirings or whether they should rebuild or to make sure he stays with the team.

I mean players don't play for these teams as a favor. They're in the league because it's their career, their source of income. It's nice when they develop a long relationship with a team and community, but the benefits go both ways. Players get pampered and adored throughout their careers not to mention the millions they make in exchange for their hard work and production. I'm not sure why fans think some players are owed something beyond that as they start to reach the end of the line.

Guys like Marcus Camby and Mike Miller do plenty of charity work etc. in the community and nobody riots when those guys get shipped out. "It's a business" is always the response from the team and the fans. Guys like Derek Fisher work just as hard in practice and in the games as Kobe, and nobody shrieks and cries when the team lets him go.


So why do fans insist on handicapping their own teams in order to give a former star "one last contract" or some sort of untouchability as far as being moved or let go? Is it just an irrational sentiment? Because there doesn't seem to be a lot of logic to it. When the CBA is up and teams and players both dig their toes in to get as much for themselves as possible, there's never any talk about how one side "owes" the other side anything. So why is it different with an aging star??

[Black and White]

You make this thread while Wade is beasting??? Bad timing bro

[Akrazotile]

You make this thread while Wade is beasting??? Bad timing bro

Wade is beasting because Lebron is letting him take a turn getting some shine. The fact is they really don't need Wade at this point. They could find a better compliment to Bran for the money Wade is making.

[Rasheed1]

Fans flip flop more than Mitt Romney on this subject..

One minute they claim it's a business, and the next they call Ray Allen a traitor for treating it like a business..

I don't think teams owe a player anything, but I also don't think players owe the team (or the fans) anything

[Black and White]

Wade is beasting because Lebron is letting him take a turn getting some shine. The fact is they really don't need Wade at this point. They could find a better compliment to Bran for the money Wade is making.

Only a LeBron stan would want to move Wade and keep Bron, Wade has done so much for that franchise, HE has 3 rings, not Bron, and whether you like it or not, he is the heart and soul of Miami.

[secund2nun]

Teams don't owe anything to long time veterans...they have paid them 10s of millions of dollars and in some cases 100s of millions of dollars. With that said players don't owe their teams any loyalty either. Lebron and Ray Allen made the right decision leaving their teams.

[Random_Guy]

Only a LeBron stan would want to move Wade and keep Bron, Wade has done so much for that franchise, HE has 3 rings, not Bron, and whether you like it or not, he is the heart and soul of Miami.
So?
Basically what the op is getting at is it doesn't matter what a player has done. The fo should do what is best for the team. In the lakers case it's basically sign Kobe for cheap or just drop him.

[Black and White]

So?
Basically what the op is getting at is it doesn't matter what a player has done. The fo should do what is best for the team. In the lakers case it's basically sign Kobe for cheap or just drop him.

It doesn't apply in all cases, but for certain franchises (and players) they have an unwritten rule of loyalty, (Dirk and Tim Duncan for example), so the franchise definitely makes sure those players are looked after, in Wades case, the Heat wont let him go, but they may restructure a deal thats more suitable, 12-14 mil maybe??? Similar to Tim Duncan.

[Random_Guy]

It doesn't apply in all cases, but for certain franchises (and players) they have an unwritten rule of loyalty, (Dirk and Tim Duncan for example), so the franchise definitely makes sure those players are looked after, in Wades case, the Heat wont let him go, but they may restructure a deal thats more suitable, 12-14 mil maybe??? Similar to Tim Duncan.
This I can agree with. Timmy is on a really good deal tbh. But I still think it's stupid for a franchise to cripple their future just for loyalty(Kobe) a mil or two more? Sure.

[Black and White]

This I can agree with. Timmy is on a really good deal tbh. But I still think it's stupid for a franchise to cripple their future just for loyalty(Kobe) a mil or two more? Sure.

Kobes contract is way too excessive and contracts of that magnitude say more about the management than the player, Kobe wouldn't have expected that much money, but when they offered it, did you expect someone like him to turn it down?

[Akrazotile]

It doesn't apply in all cases, but for certain franchises (and players) they have an unwritten rule of loyalty, (Dirk and Tim Duncan for example), so the franchise definitely makes sure those players are looked after, in Wades case, the Heat wont let him go, but they may restructure a deal thats more suitable, 12-14 mil maybe??? Similar to Tim Duncan.


Well Dirk and Duncan are better than Kobe and Wade right now AND make less $$. So in that case the team and player are on the same page. Those guys are still very important pieces of their team.

The Lakers are paying Kobe $24,000,000/yr to be annoying on twitter and scare away free agents. Thats it. And Laker fans somehow think he deserves every penny. And Wade can still play but going forward for the Heat theyd probably be better off the next few years paying him less and maybe even bringing him off the bench. But apparently the team fans will trip out if they dare "insult" Wade like that.

[navy]

From a business perspective teams dont owe players anything, but business are run by people who have emotions such as loyalty, pride and compassion.

[Trentknicks]

Weren't you going to leave ISH for good? :facepalm

[Jailblazers7]

It wouldn't be a big deal. Look at Boston and Pierce. Everyone realized it was for the best. If they let Wade walk because it was a good decision? Fans would be fine.

However, if Wade left by choice to another team the fans would prob resent him.

[Mure]

I'd love to see Miami get rid of Wade for someone who actually plays every game and doesn't vanish for 8 games in the playoffs. Please make this happen Riley.

[sick_brah07]

From a business perspective teams don't owe players anything, but business are run by people who have emotions such as loyalty, pride and compassion.


i don't agree

although Kobe's contract no doubt cripples the Lakers ability in the next two years its a great investment for the Lakers long term and they can say thank you to Kobe. Like him or not the day he walked into the franchise in 96 the Lakers franchise began to make more money and he propelled them along with Shaq to the elite status (calm down i mean in terms of marketing and attention they brought to the Lakers even when they struggled) and kept them there for roughly 17 years and still going strong

kobe gets a "thank you sir for lifting us as a franchise to an even higher standard than before this is your retirement bonus"

Lakers get to show that they will take care of players and not be cheap hence drawing more elite players to Laker land .... YOU HAVE TO SPEND MONEY TO MAKE MONEY. Long term this contract will draw guys like Wall, George, Love, Westbrook away from there small time teams because they know when push comes to shove there franchise will trade them else where to save a few bucks


In regards to veterans, it is a business and it happens in all business' people are rewarded for loyalty and professionalism (in basketball case accepting being a role player and being happy and helping create good atmosphere even though you are not the best or the focal point)... if a business shows that they are cutting everyone who is past there prime... People in there prime will no doubt start questioning if they want to be there because like most successful people in terms of money they don't think from week to week they plan for there future.

For the franchise rewarding loyalty it creates the ability to draw free agents easier and creates less turnover hence creating a better work in environment

Just remember when people say its a business, it is a business and that involves A LOT more than just basketball, when you work somewhere you want peace of mind and to feel like you are in control of your situation and any intelligent manager or boss understands loyalty and creating that calm environment is a very important part of a successful BUSINESS


I HOPE THIS ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE

i fully understand and expect younger posters to say that's bullshit basketball is about winning, but sadly it is not about winning it is a large business which involves money and any successful money maker understands consistent growth is what you want not a spike in growth then costing yourself a lot of money in 5-10 years time

[sick_brah07]

beautiful

this is why ISH has gone to crap

you put in effort to actually explain your opinion and be reasonable and no one actually wants to discuss or respond to a legit topic

anyway doesnt matter

michael jordan is better than lebron and kobe is better than lebron to

TS % is stupid and **** the knicks nets and lakers

[SexSymbol]

I always hear people say if the Heat traded Wade or if they don't re-sign him, Heat fans will go nuts. But the truth is they could probably find a better fit beside Lebron at this point. People say the Lakers "owe it" to Kobe to consult him on coach hirings or whether they should rebuild or to make sure he stays with the team.

I mean players don't play for these teams as a favor. They're in the league because it's their career, their source of income. It's nice when they develop a long relationship with a team and community, but the benefits go both ways. Players get pampered and adored throughout their careers not to mention the millions they make in exchange for their hard work and production. I'm not sure why fans think some players are owed something beyond that as they start to reach the end of the line.

Guys like Marcus Camby and Mike Miller do plenty of charity work etc. in the community and nobody riots when those guys get shipped out. "It's a business" is always the response from the team and the fans. Guys like Derek Fisher work just as hard in practice and in the games as Kobe, and nobody shrieks and cries when the team lets him go.


So why do fans insist on handicapping their own teams in order to give a former star "one last contract" or some sort of untouchability as far as being moved or let go? Is it just an irrational sentiment? Because there doesn't seem to be a lot of logic to it. When the CBA is up and teams and players both dig their toes in to get as much for themselves as possible, there's never any talk about how one side "owes" the other side anything. So why is it different with an aging star??
Because you don't have any self respect and don't understand the importance of loyalty.
You'd probably cheat on your wife with a hooker that looks somewhat better and in your mind it would justify the actions, because in a slight way, the hooker had one or two advantages on your wife, no matter that she was loyal to you and never even thought about cheating

[Akrazotile]

Because you don't have any self respect and don't understand the importance of loyalty.
You'd probably cheat on your wife with a hooker that looks somewhat better and in your mind it would justify the actions, because in a slight way, the hooker had one or two advantages on your wife, no matter that she was loyal to you and never even thought about cheating



http://i.imgur.com/mH4nxIP.png

[BasedTom]

I fundamentally disagree. The best teams are the ones that are stable. Look at the Spurs and Heat and compare them to the Knicks. Or those teams that seem to go through a ton of coaches and try to reinvent themselves every year.

Obviously you don't want to cripple your chances of contending by horribly overpaying a guy. But keeping long time players and showing loyalty has its benefits.

I think this article might explain it better: http://www.miamiherald.com/2014/04/13/4056367/dan-le-batard-family-plan-is-a.html

[BasedTom]

beautiful

this is why ISH has gone to crap

you put in effort to actually explain your opinion and be reasonable and no one actually wants to discuss or respond to a legit topic

anyway doesnt matter

michael jordan is better than lebron and kobe is better than lebron to

TS % is stupid and **** the knicks nets and lakers
It's past midnight/early morning in the civilised world. Maybe that's why your excellent post didn't get much immediate attention.

[sick_brah07]

Because you don't have any self respect and don't understand the importance of loyalty.
You'd probably cheat on your wife with a hooker that looks somewhat better and in your mind it would justify the actions, because in a slight way, the hooker had one or two advantages on your wife, no matter that she was loyal to you and never even thought about cheating


Lmao

[sick_brah07]

It's past midnight/early morning in the civilised world. Maybe that's why your excellent post didn't get much immediate attention.


My mistake I forgot that I am actually on the other side of the planet to most ish posters (aus)

Im not sure if your disagreeing with me or the op because I was essentially trying to make the same point as you, stable growth is the best and rewarding loyalty is a key to a successful business ie miami and san antonio

Im sure you can also understand me expecting people to ignore my post :oldlol:

[iamgine]

Yes it's a 100% business.

In any business, do you just ship out your veteran guy? Do you just sack your senior people in favor of younger guys?

The answer is no. It's bad business practice in the long run. Business and loyalty goes hand in hand. If you're not loyal to your guys (to a reasonable extent), especially the ones that has contributed so much, how do you expect anyone to be loyal to you?

[sick_brah07]

Yes it's a 100% business.

In any business, do you just ship out your veteran guy? Do you just sack your senior people in favor of younger guys?

The answer is no. It's bad business practice in the long run. Business and loyalty goes hand in hand. If you're not loyal to your guys (to a reasonable extent), especially the ones that has contributed so much, how do you expect anyone to be loyal to you?

:cheers:

[roffie]

From a business perspective teams dont owe players anything, but business are run by people who have emotions such as loyalty, pride and compassion.

this.

[gts]

Yes it's a 100% business.

In any business, do you just ship out your veteran guy? Do you just sack your senior people in favor of younger guys?

The answer is no. It's bad business practice in the long run. Business and loyalty goes hand in hand. If you're not loyal to your guys (to a reasonable extent), especially the ones that has contributed so much, how do you expect anyone to be loyal to you?


good thoughts.. I'll add that team loyalty to it's players also has an effect on how free agents and other prospective players view the franchise... you can't expect to be successful in the off season if the players and their agents have a preconceived view that the franchise won't take care of you in the long run even if you perform.

That being said there's no franchise that can be successful and loyal to every player that puts on the jersey, trades/moves have to be made and the CBA makes it so teams sometimes have to make tough decisions but I think most players and their agents are able to separate the true business decisions and the garbage moves...

[Dresta]

Well Dirk and Duncan are better than Kobe and Wade right now AND make less $$. So in that case the team and player are on the same page. Those guys are still very important pieces of their team.

The Lakers are paying Kobe $24,000,000/yr to be annoying on twitter and scare away free agents. Thats it. And Laker fans somehow think he deserves every penny. And Wade can still play but going forward for the Heat theyd probably be better off the next few years paying him less and maybe even bringing him off the bench. But apparently the team fans will trip out if they dare "insult" Wade like that.
Wade is still the 2nd most important piece on his team, and has been the second most important piece for the last 2 championship runs.



Wade is beasting because Lebron is letting him take a turn getting some shine. The fact is they really don't need Wade at this point. They could find a better compliment to Bran for the money Wade is making.
The way Miami have adjusted to play makes Wade a good compliment for Lebron: their offense is predicated around having 2 great perimeter playmakers who can pass from the low/mid/high post, pick and roll, great entry passes etc. This is why the Heat has great ball movement. Their defense is also dependant on the Wade/Lebron combo wrecking havoc on the perimeter, trapping PG's, providing occasional rim protection etc.

If you can't see Wade's value to this team you haven't been watching them properly. If he gets injured they have zero chance of winning the title.

[riseagainst]

another lebrontard bringing down his teammates to prop up lebron.
There needs to be a Purge.