So Tim Duncan has now made it to the Conference Finals more times than Kobe Bryant

[RagaZ]

Tim Duncan(9): 1999, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2007, 2008, 2012, 2013, 2014

Kobe Bryant(8): 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2008, 2009, 2010

Best player of his generation.

http://lifefromthenosebleeds.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/tim-duncan-deal-with-it.jpg

[SHABBA]

Kobe is his generation's Drexler unfortunately.

[kennethgriffin]

Lol so.. just means duncans lost more of them since kobes been to 7 finals

[robert_shaww]

they faced each other in 2001 and 2008.....:rolleyes:

[Rocketswin2013]

More FMVP's, longevity, impact on both ends, playoff dominance, MVP's and a better peak.



Better player.

[kennethgriffin]

Lol@ no repeat titles or finals appearances

Kobe = 2000-2001-2002, 2008-2009-2010

Basically kobe won 3 straight wcf's twice... duncans never even won 2 in a row once

[SCdac]

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/06/04/060413-NBA-You-Lose-Kobe-PI-AA_20130604235246227_660_320.JPG

[T_L_P]

Lol@ no repeat titles or finals appearances

Kobe = 2000-2001-2002, 2008-2009-2010

Basically kobe won 3 straight wcf's twice... duncans never even won 2 in a row once

Winning in 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008 and 2010 is literally no better than winning in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 and 2015 (assuming they don't manage to win it anytime in the next 5 years).

Did Bird ever win back-to-back?

[kennethgriffin]

More FMVP's, longevity, impact on both ends, playoff dominance, MVP's and a better peak.



Better player.

Kobe =

TnT player of the decade

Dime magazine player of the decade

Sporting news player of the decade

Sports illustrated top 10 athlete of the decade (all sports) kobe was the only nba player in the top 10

Magic - "if you can win a 5th title. You will arguably be right there with him all time".... (blows layup to win title)

:lol

[tjgoHAM]

4 titles as lead dog > 2 titles as lead dog

[T_L_P]

Kobe =

TnT player of the decade

Dime magazine player of the decade

Sporting news player of the decade

Sports illustrated top 10 athlete of the decade (all sports) kobe was the only nba player in the top 10

Magic - "if you can win a 5th title. You will arguably be right there with him all time".... (blows layup to win title)

:lol

SI named Duncan player of the decade. Athlete of the decade can mean a lot of different things. They outright named Duncan the best player of the 2000s. :confusedshrug:

Still, why not actually debate the guy's post instead of bringing up fan polls? I'm sure if in 10 years TNT proclaims LeBron the best player since MJ you'll debate it, no?

[robert_shaww]

4 titles as lead dog > 2 titles as lead dog

:no: 20005 manu 2007 tony

[kennethgriffin]

Would kobe let tony parker take over his team?


Lol duncans been a role player offensively since tony parker won fmvp


Duncan for the most part over the last half decade is putting up scoring averages on the level of 1998 6th man kobe bryant lmao

[kennethgriffin]

Lol@ kobe having more 40 point games in his career than duncan has 30 point games

And lol@ kobe having a higher half time record than duncan has single game record (55)

[T_L_P]

Would kobe let tony parker take over his team?


Lol duncans been a role player offensively since tony parker won fmvp


Duncan for the most part over the last half decade is putting up scoring averages on the level of 1998 6th man kobe bryant lmao

Nope, but that's a good trait for Duncan.

Kobe wouldn't let Dwight take over, and look what happened. Kobe wouldn't let Shaq win another Finals MVP, and look what happened.

Kobe for the most part over the last decade has been a scrub on defense.

You bring up such arbitrary things to suit your agenda.

4 rings, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs is worth a whole lot more than one 80+ point game. Tell me when Kobe was doing all of this shit in the Playoffs (where his production noticeably decreases)?

[Andrei89]

Duncan > Kobe

we all knew this

Lebron > Kobe

We all know this as well.

[T_L_P]

:no: 20005 manu 2007 tony

1999: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2007: Duncan

Deal with it :banana:

[kennethgriffin]

Lol@ kobe having more 1st team all defensive awards even with duncan having 2 forward spots and a center to get votes

Ditto for first team all nbas

Kobe never got the advantage of being a forward/guard on the ballot


And lol at this 7 foot center trying to pass himself off as a forward. He hasnt been one since robinson was there

[SilkkTheShocker]

I feel like Kobe fans on here have the weirdest logic on here. Hate to break it you guys, but Kobe's days of winning titles are done as long as thinks he is still a #1 option. All he is doing now is scaring away major free agents and making himself look like an ass.

[kennethgriffin]

1999: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2007: Duncan

Deal with it :banana:


Lol kobe did more as second banana in the 2001 and 2002 playoffs than duncan did for any of his titles. Regardless of who won fmvp


Duncans never sniffed a 30ppg playoff average. Kobes done it a bunch of times

[Keno]

Duncan > Kobe

we all knew this

Lebron > Kobe

We all know this as well.

this.

[robert_shaww]

Nope, but that's a good trait for Duncan.

Kobe wouldn't let Dwight take over, and look what happened. Kobe wouldn't let Shaq win another Finals MVP, and look what happened.

Kobe for the most part over the last decade has been a scrub on defense.

You bring up such arbitrary things to suit your agenda.

4 rings, 3 Finals MVPs, 2 MVPs is worth a whole lot more than one 80+ point game.

http://replygif.net/i/750.gif

[kennethgriffin]

I feel like Kobe fans on here have the weirdest logic on here. Hate to break it you guys, but Kobe's days of winning titles are done as long as thinks he is still a #1 option. All he is doing now is scaring away major free agents and making himself look like an ass.

better to go down shooting and trying to be alpha than accepting a beta role while hopping on some other guy or multiple guys tomtag along for an easy ride. People laugh at the heat. They laughed at boston. And we're giving very little credit to any title won by duncan... all for good reason. Kobe knows what will boost his legacy. And it isnt him jumping on the heat or thunder.

[T_L_P]

http://replygif.net/i/750.gif

"Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

People only praise.duncan on here out of spite for kobe. If it was kobe in sanantionio averaging 15 as tony parker and manus b*tch.. nobody....














And I mean noooooooobody.... would give him an ounce of credit. So everyone drp the gimmick... lmao

[T_L_P]

Lol kobe did more as second banana in the 2001 and 2002 playoffs than duncan did for any of his titles. Regardless of who won fmvp


Duncans never sniffed a 30ppg playoff average. Kobes done it a bunch of times

2001 Kobe: 29.4 / 7.3 / 6.1 / 1.6 / 0.8 / .555 TS% / 25.0 PER / 116 ORtg / 99 DRtg

2003 Duncan: 24.7 / 15.4 / 5.3 / 0.6 / 3.3 / .577 TS% / 28.4 PER / 116 ORtg / 92 DRtg

And this was playing at a much slower pace, with more attention from the opposing teams and playing the best defense in the league.

Yeah, of course.

[kennethgriffin]

People only praise.duncan on here out of spite for kobe. If it was kobe in sanantionio averaging 15 as tony parker and manus b*tch.. nobody....
















And I mean noooooooobody.... would give him an ounce of credit. So everyone drp the gimmick... lmao







This is such undeniable truth I felt a beed to quote myself

[robert_shaww]

Better player:

1999: Duncan
2000: Bryant
2001: Bryant
2002: Bryant
2003: Duncan
2004: Bryant
2005: Bryant
2006: Bryant
2007: Bryant
2008: Bryant
2009: Bryant
2010: Bryant
2011: Bryant
2012: Bryant
2013: Duncan
2014: Duncan

Result:

Bryant: 12
Duncan: 4


PD: A Couple of Duncan wins with Bryant Injured, Bryant has more rings and won more times against Duncan in the Playoffs.

Thread.

[T_L_P]

People only praise.duncan on here out of spite for kobe. If it was kobe in sanantionio averaging 15 as tony parker and manus b*tch.. nobody....










And I mean noooooooobody.... would give him an ounce of credit. So everyone drp the gimmick... lmao


Kobe is a scorer. Duncan is not. Why are you just comparing that facet of the game?

I guess T-Mac > Russell then seeing as he was a better scorer :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

Better player:

1999: Duncan
2000: Bryant
2001: Bryant
2002: Bryant
2003: Duncan
2004: Bryant
2005: Bryant
2006: Bryant
2007: Bryant
2008: Bryant
2009: Bryant
2010: Bryant
2011: Bryant
2012: Bryant
2013: Duncan
2014: Duncan

Result:

Bryant: 12
Duncan: 4


PD: A Couple of Duncan wins with Bryant Injured, Bryant has more rings and won more times against Duncan in the Playoffs.

Thread.


I dont even know about 2003


That was the year kobe averaged 30/6/5 and had 2.entire months of 40ppg and 9 straight 40+ in a row. Then the 12.threes in 1 game.

[robert_shaww]

Kobe is a scorer. Duncan is not. Why are you just comparing that facet of the game?

I guess T-Mac > Russell then seeing as he was a better scorer :facepalm

kobe is a better scorer, winner and cluth player than duncan, in the NBA and in the Olympics.

Give me Bryant every day.

[T_L_P]

Better player:

1999: Duncan
2000: Bryant
2001: Bryant
2002: Bryant
2003: Duncan
2004: Bryant
2005: Bryant
2006: Bryant
2007: Bryant
2008: Bryant
2009: Bryant
2010: Bryant
2011: Bryant
2012: Bryant
2013: Duncan
2014: Duncan

Result:

Bryant: 12
Duncan: 4


PD: A Couple of Duncan wins with Bryant Injured, Bryant has more rings and won more times against Duncan in the Playoffs.

Thread.

You've gotta be shitting me with 2005? Kobe missed like 20 games and his team didn't even make the Playoffs.

The 100+ games Duncan played were worth way more than the 65 Kobe played. That's a fact. :facepalm

I don't even think Kenneth would argue that. Well, I'm sure he'd say Kobe would be the best in the league if not for the injuries.

Also, Kobe 2006 Playoffs: 19.9 PER
Duncan 2006 Playoffs: 30.4 PER

[robert_shaww]

You've gotta be shitting me with 2005? Kobe missed like 20 games and his team didn't even make the Playoffs.

The 100+ games Duncan played were worth way more than the 65 Kobe played. That's a fact. :facepalm

I don't even think Kenneth would argue that. Well, I'm sure he'd say Kobe would be the best in the league if not for the injuries.

Also, Kobe 2006 Playoffs: 19.9 PER
Duncan 2006 Playoffs: 30.4 PER

you are right, im giving you 2005.

[robert_shaww]

but i wont even talk about 2006....you know why...

[SilkkTheShocker]

better to go down shooting and trying to be alpha than accepting a beta role while hopping on some other guy or multiple guys tomtag along for an easy ride. People laugh at the heat. They laughed at boston. And we're giving very little credit to any title won by duncan... all for good reason. Kobe knows what will boost his legacy. And it isnt him jumping on the heat or thunder.

He isn't boosting himself on the all-time ranking by doing that. I think rings are overrated in these debates. 6 rings, won't make him a better player than Jordan ever was. But he won't even sniff a ring or move up the all time by not making more deep playoff runs. His body is breaking down and players don't want to play with him.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is a scorer. Duncan is not. Why are you just comparing that facet of the game?

I guess T-Mac > Russell then seeing as he was a better scorer :facepalm


So lets compare rebounding... oops duncans a big man...kobe isnt... na lets compare play making... oops kobes a guard. Duncan isnt... na lets compare defense... well duncans an elite all league big man defender. Kobes an all league guard defender. Both do different things but are great at all of them... so whats left????












SCORING

its the only tie breaker. And kobe sh*ts up and down duncans face in that department

[DMAVS41]

Would kobe let tony parker take over his team?


Lol duncans been a role player offensively since tony parker won fmvp


Duncan for the most part over the last half decade is putting up scoring averages on the level of 1998 6th man kobe bryant lmao

It's not hard.

It was the Shaq/Duncan era from 99 through 07.

Then Kobe did his work for a couple years...and it's been all Lebron/Durant.

Also, if Kobe was willing to play more team ball...maybe he'd have more success.

[dawsey6]

Lol@ kobe having more 40 point games in his career than duncan has 30 point games

And lol@ kobe having a higher half time record than duncan has single game record (55)

So, Kobe's a better scorer than Duncan, and thus is a better player? Great angle.

Be a pity, though, if Duncan just happened to be better many other major statistical categories...

[T_L_P]

you are right, im giving you 2005.

And you might as well give me 2002 as well.

Kobe won the ring, but Duncan was the better player. Won the MVP, lead the league in Playoff PER again (28/14/5/1/4 in the Playoffs vs. Kobe's 27/6/5/1/1).

I'd like see '02 Kobe beat Duncan/Shaq with rookie Tony Parker and Steve Smith.

[robert_shaww]

So lets compare rebounding... oops duncans a big man...kobe isnt... na lets compare play making... oops kobes a guard. Duncan isnt... na lets compare defense... well duncans an elite all league big man defender. Kobes an all league guard defender. Both do different things but are great at all of them... so whats left????

SCORING

its the only tie breaker. And kobe sh*ts up and down duncans face in that department


http://clippers.topbuzz.com/images/nba/kobe-bryant-3.jpg

[robert_shaww]

And you might as well give me 2002 as well.

Kobe won the ring, but Duncan was the better player. Won the MVP, lead the league in Playoff PER again (28/14/5/1/4 in the Playoffs vs. Kobe's 27/6/5/1/1).

I'd like see '02 Kobe beat Duncan/Shaq with rookie Tony Parker and Steve Smith.

its debatable, but kobe was great that year, not only against the kings...a tie maybe...

[Cold soul]

Kobe had the more impressive career and is the better player. Duncan ain't too far off who is an all-time great himself.

[T_L_P]

its debatable, but kobe was great that year, not only against the kings...a tie maybe...

Also, why Kobe in '04? Duncan had a sub-par season, but he still wins.

Duncan reg. season: 22/13/3/1/3, 27.1 PER
Kobe reg. season: 24/6/5/2, 23.7 PER

Duncan Playoffs: 22/11/3/1/2, 24.1 PER
Kobe Playoffs: 25/5/6/2, 21.0 PER

So, the reality is it looks more like this:

1999: Duncan
2000: Kobe (Duncan missed Playoffs)
2001: tie, I'll give Kobe the edge because he won the 'ship
2002: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2004: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2006: Kobe (Duncan crushes him come Playoff time)
2007: tie, I'll give Duncan the edge because he won the 'ship
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe
2012: Kobe
2013: Duncan
2014: Duncan

And then there's '97 and '98, though Kobe obviously wasn't in his prime.

[LONGTIME]

Boiled down:

Kobe: 5

Tammy: 4

[T_L_P]

Boiled down:

Kobe: 5

Tammy: 4

Boiled down:

Hondo: 8

Kobe: 5

[LONGTIME]

Boiled down:

Hondo: 8

Kobe: 5

Kobe: 5

The big cuck: 4

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe: 5

The big cuck: 4
You have a ST account?

[T_L_P]

Kobe: 5

The big cuck: 4

I did laugh at that one. :applause:

[tanner892]

5>4

[kennethgriffin]

Also, why Kobe in '04? Duncan had a sub-par season, but he still wins.

Duncan reg. season: 22/13/3/1/3, 27.1 PER
Kobe reg. season: 24/6/5/2, 23.7 PER

Duncan Playoffs: 22/11/3/1/2, 24.1 PER
Kobe Playoffs: 25/5/6/2, 21.0 PER

So, the reality is it looks more like this:

1999: Duncan
2000: Kobe (Duncan missed Playoffs)
2001: tie, I'll give Kobe the edge because he won the 'ship
2002: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2004: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2006: Kobe (Duncan crushes him come Playoff time)
2007: tie, I'll give Duncan the edge because he won the 'ship
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe
2012: Kobe
2013: Duncan
2014: Duncan

And then there's '97 and '98, though Kobe obviously wasn't in his prime.
Lol

Kobe was 28/6/5 in 2013 and played the whole season before his injury a few games before the playoffs. Kobe was arguably a top 3 player. Duncan was no where near that level. He had a good finals along with green and parker but common lmao

And 2014 kobe was basically retired from a career ending injury

And lol@ 2007. Kobe was a 32/6/5 player while parker was finals mvp.. you think parker woulda done that if kobe won a title with him?

[T_L_P]

Lol

Kobe was 28/6/5 in 2013 and played the whole season before his injury a few games before the playoffs. Kobe was arguably a top 3 player. Duncan was no where near that level. He had a good finals along with green and parker but common lmao

And 2014 kobe was basically retired from a career ending injury

And lol@ 2007. Kobe was a 32/6/5 player while parker was finals mvp.. you think parker woulda done that if kobe won a title with him?

Again, Duncan played in the Playoffs. His season was worth more than Kobe's because of that. I put Kobe ahead of Duncan in 2000 for the exact same reason.

And in the '07 Playoffs Duncan was better than Kobe. I put Kobe ahead of Duncan in 2001 for the exact same reason.

I don't think I'm being unfair here. :confusedshrug:

[Straight_Ballin]

Kobe stans getting ethered like its nothing up in here.

Duncan > Kobe

[robert_shaww]

Also, why Kobe in '04? Duncan had a sub-par season, but he still wins.

Duncan reg. season: 22/13/3/1/3, 27.1 PER
Kobe reg. season: 24/6/5/2, 23.7 PER

Duncan Playoffs: 22/11/3/1/2, 24.1 PER
Kobe Playoffs: 25/5/6/2, 21.0 PER

So, the reality is it looks more like this:

1999: Duncan
2000: Kobe (Duncan missed Playoffs)
2001: tie, I'll give Kobe the edge because he won the 'ship
2002: Duncan
2003: Duncan
2004: Duncan
2005: Duncan
2006: Kobe (Duncan crushes him come Playoff time)
2007: tie, I'll give Duncan the edge because he won the 'ship
2008: Kobe
2009: Kobe
2010: Kobe
2011: Kobe
2012: Kobe
2013: Duncan
2014: Duncan

And then there's '97 and '98, though Kobe obviously wasn't in his prime.


http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/887/8879413/2514645-5009314532-giphy.gif

[T_L_P]

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/887/8879413/2514645-5009314532-giphy.gif

You highlight '05 yet admitted in an earlier post that Duncan was in fact better. Fail. :facepalm

Why was Kobe ahead of Duncan in '04?

Do you really think Kobe performed better in the '06 Playoffs than Duncan?

I'd like to see you actually answer these questions.

[IllegalD]

Durant hasn't won shit, why is he even in the conversation?

2000-2010 was Kobe's era. 50 years from now that's the player people will remember the most. That's the player with the most memorable moments and performances in those years: Alley-oop to Shaq, 81 Points, Game Winner vs Suns, 50 Point Streak, 40 Point Streak, Take-over in gold medal game, etc., etc.

Just face it, haters.

Kobe is Top 5 All Time and the best player of his era.

Shaq has 1 less ring even though he tried to merc like a pathetic b*tch towards the tailend of his career. Shaq has had the most help of any GOAT candidate throughout his career, yet has less rings than Kobe? Why is that if he's supposed to be the MDE (Most Dominant Ever)? :confusedshrug:

Shaq played with every relevant superstar/team in the post-Jordan era except for Duncan/Spurs. He played with Penny in Orlando, had a stacked team in LA with Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel. Then had Kobe. Then he had Wade. Then he had Amare/Nash, then he had LeBron, then he played with the Celtics Big 4. Shameless MERCing, jumping from team to team, ring-chasing and still 1 less ring than Kobe to show for it.

And don't give me any bs about Shaq's decline, since that falls squarely on his lazy-ass shoulders.

Also, Shaq never proved that he could win AS THE MAN WITHOUT Kobe, while Kobe did it TWICE.

Duncan hasn't been the man on a championship team in nearly a decade (2005, remember T. Parker was the Finals MVP in 2007), and has an asterisk lockout season ring.

Duncan also has no "memorable/sexy" moments in the NBA Finals or the playoffs for that matter that people will remember years from now like Kobe's alley-oop to Shaq and his game winner against the Suns.

In fact, this will be Duncan's most memorable moment in the playoffs/Finals for future generations:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818167/duncanmiss.gif

[T_L_P]

Durant hasn't won shit, why is he even in the conversation?

2000-2010 was Kobe's era. 50 years from now that's the player people will remember the most. That's the player with the most memorable moments and performances in those years: Alley-oop to Shaq, 81 Points, Game Winner vs Suns, 50 Point Streak, 40 Point Streak, Take-over in gold medal game, etc., etc.

Just face it, haters.

Kobe is Top 5 All Time and the best player of his era.

Shaq has 1 less ring even though he tried to merc like a pathetic b*tch towards the tailend of his career. Shaq has had the most help of any GOAT candidate throughout his career, yet has less rings than Kobe? Why is that if he's supposed to be the MDE (Most Dominant Ever)? :confusedshrug:

Shaq played with every relevant superstar/team in the post-Jordan era except for Duncan/Spurs. He played with Penny in Orlando, had a stacked team in LA with Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel. Then had Kobe. Then he had Wade. Then he had Amare/Nash, then he had LeBron, then he played with the Celtics Big 4. Shameless MERCing, jumping from team to team, ring-chasing and still 1 less ring than Kobe to show for it.

And don't give me any bs about Shaq's decline, since that falls squarely on his lazy-ass shoulders.

Also, Shaq never proved that he could win AS THE MAN WITHOUT Kobe, while Kobe did it TWICE.

Duncan hasn't been the man on a championship team in nearly a decade (2005, remember T. Parker was the Finals MVP in 2007), and has an asterisk lockout season ring.

Duncan also has no "memorable/sexy" moments in the NBA Finals or the playoffs for that matter that people will remember years from now like Kobe's alley-oop to Shaq and his game winner against the Suns.

In fact, this will be Duncan's most memorable moment in the playoffs/Finals for future generations:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2818167/duncanmiss.gif

Most of what you said has nothing to do with the debate. Sexy plays and fanfare is not basketball discussion. We're talking about which player impacted the game more.

Also, Duncan was clearly "the man" in 2007. I'm interested to know if you watched the NBA then, because nobody called it Tony's team. Duncan's Playoff production was clearly better than Parker's, and in the real Finals, the Phoenix series, he dropped 27/14/4.

Also, shutup with this 2000-2010 nonsense. I watched those years, and Shaq/Duncan dominated the early 2000s. It wasn't even Kobe's team until Shaq left, let alone his league. Also, real basketball heads remember this:

http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0419/nba_g_duncan5_580.jpg

Which again makes me question if you were watching Duncan play?

[IllegalD]

Most of what you said has nothing to do with the debate. Sexy plays and fanfare is not basketball discussion. We're talking about which player impacted the game more.

Also, Duncan was clearly "the man" in 2007. I'm interested to know if you watched the NBA then, because nobody called it Tony's team. Duncan's Playoff production was clearly better than Parker's, and in the real Finals, the Phoenix series, he dropped 27/14/4.

Also, shutup with this 2000-2010 nonsense. Again, I watched those years, and Shaq/Duncan dominated the early 2000s. It wasn't even Kobe's team until Shaq left, let alone his league.

Yes it does.

Are you serious? It's for the same reasons that people will have Magic and Bird on their "Mt Rushmore" of bball even though neither of them was an elite defensive player like other GOAT candidates.

Besides, wasn't that one of the same excuses Kobe haters spew as to why Kobe "isn't a top 10 player". Because he "has no memorable moments". Funny how when the tables are turned on your favorite player "its not basketball discussion". Also you discredit Kobe's first 3 rings on the basis of Shaq winning the Finals MVP, thus it's only fair to assume the same for Duncan's 2007 ring, unless you're just a butt-hurt hypocrite.

[IllegalD]

So now we're counting plays/moments that "real basketball heads" would know?

:roll:

I love how the criteria keeps changing when the haters are exposed and backed into a corner.

Dude, that Duncan shot won't be making any "All-Time" or "Most Memorable" lists any time soon...or EVER. :lol

[T_L_P]

Yes it does.

Are you serious? It's for the same reasons that people will have Magic and Bird on their "Mt Rushmore" of bball even though neither of them was an elite defensive player like other GOAT candidates.

Besides, wasn't that one of the same excuses Kobe haters spew as to why Kobe "isn't a top 10 player". Because he "has no memorable moments". Funny how when the tables are turned on your favorite player "its not basketball discussion". Also you discredit Kobe's first 3 rings on the basis of Shaq winning the Finals MVP, thus it's only fair to assume the same for Duncan's 2007 ring, unless you're just a butt-hurt hypocrite.

When did I say any of this? Kobe's not in the top ten for me because I think there are ten better players to build a team around. Not because he didn't have a sexy play.

And when did I discredit Kobe's first three rings? I said he was the second best player on his team, but definitely not an irrelevant piece. The fact is though the early Lakers were Shaq's team. It's plain revisionism if you say otherwise -- just like saying the Spurs were Parker's team in '07. And that is why I said it's stupid to say the league was Kobe's from 2000-2010, because, in 2000 he wasn't a superstar, in 2001 and 2002 he was second best on his team to Shaq, and in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007 he came up short. It was Kobe's league for either: 2006, because of the statistical dominance (though he under-performed badly in the Playoffs). Or it was his league in '09-'10. You can't have both (otherwise it was LeBron's league in '09 and '10; he was playing better basketball but not winning, much like Kobe post-Shaq / pre-Gasol).

[IllegalD]

When did I say any of this? Kobe's not in the top ten for me because I think there are ten better players to build a team around. Not because he didn't have a sexy play.

And when did I discredit Kobe's first three rings? I said he was the second best player on his team, but definitely not an irrelevant piece. The fact is though the early Lakers were Shaq's team. It's plain revisionism if you say otherwise -- just like saying the Spurs were Parker's team in '07.

Finals MVP don't lie, bra...:coleman:

[IllegalD]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336601


:applause:

[T_L_P]

Finals MVP don't lie, bra...:coleman:

How very droll.

If they don't lie, how could the league have been Kobe's at any point before '09, like you claim? :facepalm

[IllegalD]

How very droll.

If they don't lie, how could the league have been Kobe's at any point before '09, like you claim? :facepalm

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy/double standard people like you use when judging players in order to fit your biased agenda.

[T_L_P]

I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy/double standard people like you use when judging players in order to fit your biased agenda.

2000-2002 Lakers were Shaq's team, you've done nothing to prove otherwise.

2007 Spurs:

Duncan, 20/11/3/1/2 in the regular season, 4th in MVP voting. Parker, 19/3/6/1/0, 15T in MVP voting.

Duncan, 22/12/3/1/3 in the Playoffs. Parker, 21/3/6/1.

It was still Duncan's team.

[Straight_Ballin]

TLP with dat ether!

[PsychoBe]

2000-2002 Lakers were Shaq's team, you've done nothing to prove otherwise.

2007 Spurs:

Duncan, 20/11/3/1/2 in the regular season, 4th in MVP voting. Parker, 19/3/6/1/0, 15T in MVP voting.

Duncan, 22/12/3/1/3 in the Playoffs. Parker, 21/3/6/1.

It was still Duncan's team.

2000-2002 lakers was shaq's and kobe's team.

[onhcetum]

:no: 20005 manu 2007 tony

cmon man... don't troll. you really believe that shit?

manu and tony are role players who have been all stars and allnba + all defensive less then Duncan COMBINED...

yes, parker won finals mvp, but who was the alpha, all star, all nba, and all defensive?

[robert_shaww]

cmon man... don't troll. you really believe that shit?

manu and tony are role players who have been all stars and allnba + all defensive less then Duncan COMBINED...

yes, parker won finals mvp, but who was the alpha, all star, all nba, and all defensive?

never troll, I believe that and more, can prove it.

[chris02jammers]

LeBron has been to Conference Finals 6 times... few more years and he will surpass Kobe

[T_L_P]

never troll, I believe that and more, can prove it.

You can't though. Prove why Parker was the best player on the Spurs in '07.

Duncan got more MVP votes, much better Playoff stats, and he significantly outperformed Parker in the Phoenix series.

[ImKobe]

more Conference Finals than Kobe, but how many Finals appearances, championships? Has Duncan ever went to Finals in consecutive years, or won b2b titles, let alone a three-peat, hmmm?

Duncan: 9 Conference Finals - 5 Finals appearances - 4 titles
Kobe: 8 Conference Finals - 7 Finals appearances - 5 titles

[Carbine]

If people thought Kobe was a top 3 player last year, make a mental note of who these people are and disregard that person from now on.

What a crock of sh!t.

[robert_shaww]

You can't though. Prove why Parker was the best player on the Spurs in '07.

Duncan got more MVP votes, much better Playoff stats, and he significantly outperformed Parker in the Phoenix series.


OK, lets forget the finals MVP of 06-07.....

2006-2007 COMPLETE SEASON AND PLAYOFFS STATS:

Parker:

Per: 21.4
TS%: .572
eFG%: .527

per 36:

20.6 PPG
3.6 REB
6.1 AST



Ginobili:

Per: 24.1
TS%: 609
eFG%: .539

per36min:

21.7PPG
5.7 REB
4.6 AST



Duncan

Per: 25.9
TS%: .579
eFG%: .547

per 36miin:

21.1 PPG
11.2 REB
3.6 AST


Is Duncan carrying the Spurs? :rolleyes:

[Carbine]

Duncan was 4th in MVP voting with 286 voting points, Parker got a single 5th place vote and that was it, for 1 point total.

Anyone who watched the 2007 Spurs run with any basketball intellect and non-bias will tell you Duncan was the clear best player in the playoffs.

[kennethgriffin]

honestly.. duncans only chance to get notoriety is on a meaningless message board among a few hardcore fans


cause in reality nobody gives a sh*t about duncan. nore do most people know he exists

so while kobe and duncan is a great conversation/debate among a small group. in reality. it doesnt fly. and kobe comes out on top for a reason.


1 guy flew under the radar his whole career

the other guy actually faced media scrutiny and pressure from the fans/critics

while everyone who faces kobe trys their best and tells all their friends theyre gonna be on tv and theyre going up against kobe.

at the same time duncans playing on a close circut station not being noticed. and the few times he ends up on national tv his coach benches him to save his legs or nobody watches anyway

this is the end all be all fact. that no matter how much debating we go through. itel never mean a damn thing. kobe is mentioned with guys like jordan.... kobe is a legend. duncan isnt


career wise duncans a legend

resume wise duncans a legend


but he isnt a legend to the world.

now go to bed all you duncan fans on ISH... and by all you duncan fans i mean the 1 or 2 guys ive seen and the rest who are made up of lebron/jordan fans that just talk about the guy to get under kobe fans skin

[T_L_P]

OK, lets forget the finals MVP of 06-07.....

2006-2007 COMPLETE SEASON AND PLAYOFFS STATS:

Parker:

Per: 21.4
TS%: .572
eFG%: .527

per 36:

20.6 PPG
3.6 REB
6.1 AST



Ginobili:

Per: 24.1
TS%: 609
eFG%: .539

per36min:

21.7PPG
5.7 REB
4.6 AST



Duncan

Per: 25.9
TS%: .579
eFG%: .547

per 36miin:

21.1 PPG
11.2 REB
3.6 AST


Is Duncan carrying the Spurs? :rolleyes:

What is your obsession with carrying? You said Parker was the best player on the team in '07. Your stats indicate otherwise.

Parker 07 Playoffs: 21/3/6/1, .523 TS%
Duncan 07 Playoffs: 22/12/3/3, .556 TS%

I love how you choose to go with the regular season stats instead of the vastly more important Playoff ones. Fool. :oldlol:

Playoff PER: Duncan 27.4, Parker 18.7, Manu 21.9.

[T_L_P]

Duncan was 4th in MVP voting with 286 voting points, Parker got a single 5th place vote and that was it, for 1 point total.

Anyone who watched the 2007 Spurs run with any basketball intellect and non-bias will tell you Duncan was the clear best player in the playoffs.

Thankyou :applause: