Elgin Baylor was JUST AS SKILLED a passer as Lebron James and Larry Bird

[CavaliersFTW]

Since nobody pays attention to the non-hyperbole thread titles anymore, discuss :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsNZMuNl6ko

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wb-EHpwbufM/U3g3o0O9RPI/AAAAAAAAFHo/trMpYJRdVHM/s640/elginbaylorpassingpic2.jpg

[5 rings fan]

Elgin Baylor had a 12 inch vertical

Even I could be a hall of famer back in that weak era, using my idol Kobe's skills, I would break his ankle to death.

[inclinerator]

even with a cool title it took 3 hrs for someone to respond

[no pun intended]

Impressive.

[PHILA]

Without a doubt, especially considering his hand size. Another standout passer is Oscar Robertson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09xvhy9paR0&t=2m30s

[elementally morale]

I learned something today. Thank you.

[Round Mound]

:applause:

[finchyyy]

Lebron maybe, but no chance he's as good as Bird.

[VengefulAngel]

Lebron maybe, but no chance he's as good as Bird.

Well done you've won the most idiotic post of the month, your reward is in the mail, don't post until you get it.

[julizaver]

Since nobody pays attention to the non-hyperbole thread titles anymore, discuss :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsNZMuNl6ko

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Wb-EHpwbufM/U3g3o0O9RPI/AAAAAAAAFHo/trMpYJRdVHM/s640/elginbaylorpassingpic2.jpg

Amazing video. :applause:

[tobethdope]

Lebron maybe, but no chance he's as good as Bird.
this

lebron isnt even a better passer than the average point guard in the nba

[pauk]

this

lebron isnt even a better passer than the average point guard in the nba

Do you mean to say this is average point guard passing/vision: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-zhe-5ORA

?

[BoutPractice]

OP understandably doesn't like LeBron, but Baylor is probably the closest precursor as a strong, quick forward who could lead the break, and was able to put together seasons where he was top 10 in points, rebounds and assists per game at the same time.

[red1]

cavsfortheloss

[Harison]

Bird >>

[JohnFreeman]

Weak era, LeBron and Bird play against people who can actually reach the ball

[finchyyy]

Well done you've won the most idiotic post of the month, your reward is in the mail, don't post until you get it.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that LBJ is not as good as a passer as Larry Bird?

[fpliii]

:applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

All those from at best, maybe 2% of his career existing on film? His wind up full court pass is my favorite one I think. Very powerful and accurate passer, and with a touch of flair. :applause:

[gts]

Baylor was one of the original high fly, swiss army knife players that are so coveted today

edit nice video btw thanks.. love the Baylor to Wilt lob and the length of the court windup and pass...

[jongib369]

cissy strut was perfect for this, good job :applause:

[ThePhantomCreep]

Considering Russell averaged more assists, I'm going to say no, he was not.

[CavaliersFTW]

even with a cool title it took 3 hrs for someone to respond
Not enough jimmies were rustled. I should have said "Elgin was THE best passing forward of all time" then the Lebron stans and Bird fans would be here in full force :lol

[SHAQisGOAT]

Good shit yet again man, great vid. I see some of his direct/indirect influence (here in terms of passing) on various players, like Erving, Magic, Pressey, Jordan, Lebron.... From what I've seen, I def wouldn't call him a better passer than someone like Bird though, and up there with Lebron but I'd still give the edge to James.

[CavaliersFTW]

Good shit yet again man, great vid. I see some of his direct/indirect influence (here in terms of passing) on various players, like Erving, Magic, Pressey, Jordan, Lebron.... From what I've seen, I def wouldn't call him a better passer than someone like Bird though, and up there with Lebron but I'd still give the edge to James.

Your opinion is very reasonable, my thread title was just a bit of hyperbole to generate more discussion.

It is important to note also, that at best a random collection of maybe 2% of his basketball plays exists on film, so considering that, the quality and creativity of those passes IMO is extremely impressive so he's definitely a top tier all-time player in terms of his passing vision, and skill even if he didn't look to pass as much as say, Lebron or Larry Bird.

[TylerOO]

what the heck is a elgin baylor

[CavaliersFTW]

Inefficient rebounding tweener.
Another way to describe him would be a 3/4 sized Lebron James but with superior rebounding ability, and a more versatile, creative and difficult to guard scoring skillset (at the cost of average field goal percentage... but he's just plain harder to slow down from the other teams perspective, period), oh and a score first take the last shot mentality.

[1987_Lakers]

Thread title is ridiculous.:oldlol:

[CavaliersFTW]

Thread title is ridiculous.:oldlol:
Are you a Lakers fan or no?

[1987_Lakers]

Are you a Lakers fan or no?
why does that matter?

[CavaliersFTW]

why does that matter?
I would think a genuine Lakers fan who sees an underrated Laker like Baylor getting some recognition where he deserves it (he was a GREAT passer) would have a different reaction.

[1987_Lakers]

I would think a genuine Lakers fan who sees an underrated Laker like Baylor getting some recognition where he deserves it (he was a GREAT passer) would have a different reaction.

Not saying he wasn't a skilled passer, he was, but not on Bird and LeBron's level. Just think the thread title is a bit too extreme.

[CavaliersFTW]

Not saying he wasn't a skilled passer, he was, but not on Bird and LeBron's level. Just think the thread title is a bit too extreme.
Skill wise, I honestly think he could be, at least given that so little of his career exists on film yet so many outstanding examples of passing are available to watch. I mean, who else in basketball history has duplicated a full-court wind-up pass like that? And we're just getting a small glimpse of what he was capable of, with maybe 2% of his career plays existing on film. He's original, creative, and accurate with his passes. Volume wise and how often he actually looked to pass, obviously he isn't a Lebron James or a Larry Bird, both of those players look to pass a little more and score a little less than Elgin. Skill wise and raw ability (like touch, anticipation, and peripheral court vision) though, Elgin is up there all-time with any forward from what I can see.

[fpliii]

Skill wise, I honestly think he could be, at least given that so little of his career exists on film yet so many outstanding examples of passing are available to watch. I mean, who else in basketball history has duplicated a full-court wind-up pass like that? And we're just getting a small glimpse of what he was capable of, with maybe 2% of his career plays existing on film. He's original, creative, and accurate with his passes. Volume wise and how often he actually looked to pass, obviously he isn't a Lebron James or a Larry Bird, both of those players look to pass a little more and score a little less than Elgin. Skill wise and raw ability (like touch, anticipation, and peripheral court vision) though, Elgin is up there all-time with any forward from what I can see.
What about Barry?

[CavaliersFTW]

What about Barry?
Have not seen enough all at once to tell, but there are at least several "wtf" type passes that I can recall from him right off the top of my head so he might be up there with this class of passer too.

[fpliii]

Have not seen enough all at once to tell, but there are at least several "wtf" type passes that I can recall from him right off the top of my head so he might be up there with this class of passer too.
Cool.

Do any other forwards come to mind?

[jongib369]

This is unrelated to the thread but have you seen any instances or read anything about Gus Johnson guarding Oscar ?

[jongib369]

All I've found is this

"Another convert on the Royals was Oscar Robertson. Over the years, Gus was assigned to guard the Big O, and no one in the NBA did a better job. Robertson thrived on backing defenders into places that would maximize his shooting and passing options. Gus simply refused to let him reach those spots. Like Gus, Robertson was an expert at using his strong hands when guarding his opponents. Their battles produced a lot of bruises."

[cuad]

When you edit your videos in Sony Vegas, do you make sure to disable smart resample on all the clips? If not, start doing so.

[CavaliersFTW]

When you edit your videos in Sony Vegas, do you make sure to disable smart resample on all the clips? If not, start doing so.
I use Adobe Premiere Pro, what is "smart resample" and what does it do? It sounds like something negative.

[Marchesk]

Cavs,

Any chance you would do a Gus Johnson highlight video at some point?

[CavaliersFTW]

Cavs,

Any chance you would do a Gus Johnson highlight video at some point?
Sure there's a pretty good chance

[CavaliersFTW]

As tweeted by the legend himself https://twitter.com/elginbaylor/status/469248950613323776

:bowdown:

[bizil]

I would give Baylor props for being a very good passing SF no doubt. I think he and Dr. J's all around game gets underrated. However, Bird and LeBron are among the best passers of all time and are certainly the top two passing forwards ever. They have the vision of the elite passing PG's. It's simply a different level of passing. Also among SF's, Barry, Hondo, Pippen, and Hill are also clearly better passers.

[CavaliersFTW]

I would give Baylor props for being a very good passing SF no doubt. I think he and Dr. J's all around game gets underrated. However, Bird and LeBron are among the best passers of all time and are certainly the top two passing forwards ever. They have the vision of the elite passing PG's. It's simply a different level of passing. Also among SF's, Barry, Hondo, Pippen, and Hill are also clearly better passers.
I've seen as much footage of Hondo as I have of Elgin, he definitely is not better than Baylor. Baylor may not have been racking up assists like those other guys, for whatever reasons (assists being credited differently, looking for assists, teammates accuracy, w/e, who knows why the numbers are different) but he certainly appears worthy enough on film in my eyes given the limited amount of it available to be jockeying for no less than the third most talented looking passing SF ever. By talented I mean, the touch and ball control to hit teammates, the peripheral vision to see them, and the IQ and timing to make the right decisions of when to set them up.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Stop with these absurd titles. it's like when you said Gus Johnson was as athletic as MJ.

[CavaliersFTW]

Stop with these absurd titles. it's like when you said Gus Johnson was as athletic as MJ.
no

[bizil]

I've seen as much footage of Hondo as I have of Elgin, he definitely is not better than Baylor. Baylor may not have been racking up assists like those other guys, for whatever reasons (assists being credited differently, looking for assists, teammates accuracy, w/e, who knows why the numbers are different) but he certainly appears worthy enough on film in my eyes given the limited amount of it available to be jockeying for no less than the third most talented looking passing SF ever. By talented I mean, the touch and ball control to hit teammates, the peripheral vision to see them, and the IQ and timing to make the right decisions of when to set them up.

But the thing is Baylor was a score first player who was also a very good passer. Hondo in my book was more along the lines of a Pippen, but more alpha than Pip. Which means Hondo was more of a point forward type than Baylor. For me that swings it in Hondo's favor. U can't ignore the assist numbers Hondo DID put up. Not saying it's the be all end all though.

[Cocaine80s]

except he wasn't...

[CavaliersFTW]

But the thing is Baylor was a score first player who was also a very good passer. Hondo in my book was more along the lines of a Pippen, but more alpha than Pip. Which means Hondo was more of a point forward type than Baylor. For me that swings it in Hondo's favor. U can't ignore the assist numbers Hondo DID put up. Not saying it's the be all end all though.
Right, I'm not saying passing talent or skill is the only variable for greatness when it comes to passing at the forward position either. You're right, Baylor may not have hunted for an assist as often as a few other forwards. But from strictly observing his talent though, with his physical and mental tools, his passing talent is way up there, higher than several players who may have generated more assists.

[CavaliersFTW]

Is it just a ploy to get people to click on the thread or do you genuinely believe he was a better passer than James/Bird?
:wtf: who are you talking to? :confusedshrug:

[RoundMoundOfReb]

:wtf: who are you talking too? :confusedshrug:
Well i've heard you say Bird was a better passer than LeBron before (which i agree with) so if he's as skilled as Bird he'd be better than LeBron.

[CavaliersFTW]

Well i've heard you say Bird was a better passer than LeBron before (which i agree with) so if he's as skilled as Bird he'd be better than LeBron.
The OP uses the word hyperbole, if hyperbole bothers you, maybe you shouldn't post on ISH.

[bizil]

Right, I'm not saying passing talent or skill is the only variable for greatness when it comes to passing at the forward position either. You're right, Baylor may not have hunted for an assist as often as a few other forwards. But from strictly observing his talent though, with his physical and mental tools, his passing talent is way up there, higher than several players who may have generated more assists.

I for sure agree with that! Plus Baylor did play with Jerry West who was a great passer. So Elgin didn't have to really focus on passing first. His main job was to dominate scoring and rebounding!

[5 rings fan]

good vids, Kobe would be impressed

[MiseryCityTexas]

Prime Elgin would beast in today's league. I still think Lebron would be better though.......

[MiseryCityTexas]

Elgin Baylor had a 12 inch vertical

Even I could be a hall of famer back in that weak era, using my idol Kobe's skills, I would break his ankle to death.

Elgin Baylor still dunked all over Bill Russell with ease.

[pauk]

Well, never saw him play as much as Bird & Lebron, actually i dont think i have even seen a full game with prime Elgin at all... nevertheless i think its safer for me to say i dont think Elgin was as skilled of a passer as them, thats very doubtful considering ive seen only Magic Johnson make a higher magnitude of creative & difficult passes at great consistency than Bird & Lebron.... and i think you CavsFTW is the first i ever heard/seen talk about Elgins passing, better yet praise it to that level...

[-Lebron23-]

good vids, Kobe would be impressed
:applause: