Why is Lebron psychologically shackled within the "flow of the game"?

[CavaliersFTW]

Why can't he ever break free and take a game over? He get's his $tats but they are always only ever earned within the flow of the game, he can never actually control the game himself it seems, that job is left to his teammates. Physically he's more than capable of "taking over" a game a-la Kobe or Jordan, so what mechanism is psychologically holding him back?

[Cocaine80s]

Same reason Wilt choked in the post season.

[ThatCoolKid]

Don't even gotta respond. Respect the PER, nerd.

[Yankstar]

Don't even gotta respond. Respect the PER, nerd.
Cool story bro. Regular season warrior

[coin24]

SDS

[moe94]

Cool story bro. Regular season warrior

His stats don't dip in the regular season. He's back2back champ. All of that means nothing because of one game. Also, you're repping the Clips. Ironic? :roll:

[imnew09]

OP still mad. :roll:

[DaSeba5]

Cool story bro. Regular season warrior

Huh? :biggums:

[Swaggin916]

Why can't he ever break free and take a game over? He get's his $tats but they are always only ever earned within the flow of the game, he can never actually control the game himself it seems, that job is left to his teammates. Physically he's more than capable of "taking over" a game a-la Kobe or Jordan, so what mechanism is psychologically holding him back?

He will only do it out of desperation... and Game 1 down by quite a bit with the Pacers playing great basketball isn't a desperate time. He took over Game 6 last year down the stretch in the finals leading up the Allen 3 to tie it... He can easily do it. It's much more beneficial to just play within the offense though and get others involved while scoring crazy efficiently 9/10 times though.

[poido123]

Why can't he ever break free and take a game over? He get's his $tats but they are always only ever earned within the flow of the game, he can never actually control the game himself it seems, that job is left to his teammates. Physically he's more than capable of "taking over" a game a-la Kobe or Jordan, so what mechanism is psychologically holding him back?


I saw him do exactly what your saying in 2 games of note. The game 6 against Boston in 2012, and Game 7 last year Spurs.

Other than that, I can see he has this tendency.

[ImKobe]

Lebron looks pretty unstoppable to me. He grabs the defensive rebound and just sprints to the other end of the floor and finishes over 2-3 defenders like it's nothing, he's averaging what, 30 ppg on 56% shooting in the POs? When was the last time someone did that? Shaq?

I think he's been good in the Playoffs this year and has done his job, rest of the team has to step up as well.

[DaSeba5]

I guess he doesn't. I must be imagining it all. Silly me. :eek:

[sekachu]

Why can't he ever break free and take a game over? He get's his $tats but they are always only ever earned within the flow of the game, he can never actually control the game himself it seems, that job is left to his teammates. Physically he's more than capable of "taking over" a game a-la Kobe or Jordan, so what mechanism is psychologically holding him back?




It is not fair for him to compare MJ or kobe when you talk about psychological. He just isn't the same class with them. Case in point. Have you ever seen him able to make 2 ft when the game is on the line while MJ and kobe always make them. Can't blame him, it calls psychological dyslexia

[Solid Snake]

I wish Lebron would just shoot 28 times a game. He should be an unstoppable beast. I'm not saying he has to go full Kobe mode, but god damn, when your team needs it, demand the ball and score at will like you should be able to.

[Im so nba'd out]

Why can't he ever break free and take a game over? He get's his $tats but they are always only ever earned within the flow of the game, he can never actually control the game himself it seems, that job is left to his teammates. Physically he's more than capable of "taking over" a game a-la Kobe or Jordan, so what mechanism is psychologically holding him back?
its been 4 years..you have to let it go

[bdreason]

LeBron can and will dominate games. I agree that he doesn't seem to be able to turn it on and off though. Actually, I think it's his approach to the game that constantly keeps him in "team mode", even when people think he should be more selfish. I think LeBron truly believes that the best way to win any game is to keep the entire team involved, and for the most part, he's right.

[bigkingsfan]

He just scored 49 a few games ago.

[sekachu]

LeBron can and will dominate games. I agree that he doesn't seem to be able to turn it on and off though. Actually, I think it's his approach to the game that constantly keeps him in "team mode", even when people think he should be more selfish. I think LeBron truly believes that the best way to win any game is to keep the entire team involved, and for the most part, he's right.


It is a sense of responsibility to be more selfish to take over as a best player and being the leader on his team when his team couldn't get it going.

[AirTupac]

He just scored 49 a few games ago.

Within the flow of the game.

OP is right. The fact that he's a cavs fan makes him very knowledgable about Lestat's tendencies. Anyone who disagrees with OP is dumb and should be banned for life from using Mazilla / Chrome and only be resorted to using IE.

[plowking]

OP still mad. :roll:

Damn, even Laker fans going in on OP in a Lebron thread.

You know you're a big time loser when Heat and Laker fans are coming together to call you a f@ggot.

Congrats OP. You're the biggest loser of your time on ISH. Generational talent. Your kids will more than likely post here and be known as f@gs too.

[BoutPractice]

The premise of the thread is wrong, as he's brute forced his way through many games in the past, especially the desperate ones (see G6 last year as a perfect example). So it doesn't really require any explanation...

[TheMilkyBarKid]

It is not fair for him to compare MJ or kobe when you talk about psychological. He just isn't the same class with them. Case in point. Have you ever seen him able to make 2 ft when the game is on the line while MJ and kobe always make them. Can't blame him, it calls psychological dyslexia
He made 4 fts so seal the win for the championship last year.

[East_Stone_Ya]

stop feeding the troll :rant

[buddha]

this is no troll

[Yankstar]

He just scored 49 a few games ago.

That was regular season Lebron. His true form "Finals Bran" is starting to show.
:bowdown:

[TheMilkyBarKid]

That was regular season Lebron. His true form "Finals Bran" is starting to show.
:bowdown:
What do 'Finals Clippers' look like? Does anyone know??

[navy]

What do 'Finals Clippers' look like? Does anyone know??
:lebronamazed:

[nathanjizzle]

Lebron has self esteem issues

[ralph_i_el]

playing in the flow of the game is the best way to win games in the long run. However, dumbasses will shit on you when you lose because you didn't try to take every shot to win.

Lebron plays ball the RIGHT way and that's lead to 2 championships and tons of regular season success. Nobody wins every game.



The best example I can think of to describe this is Chris Paul when he was on the hornets. They didn't panic or try to play hero ball at the end of games, Paul would just run the offense like normal and they had consistently amazing records in close games. You design your offense to score in the most efficient way possible; I don't understand why you would want to abandon that for hero ball when the going gets tough. You're more likely to shoot your team OUT of a game completely than to shoot them back into it if you abandon your offensive concepts. Kobe does it all the time (when his leg works and he can play).



tl;dr we have some dumb ****ing trolls who don't know/care about basketball and only watch for the stars.


btw: all you "RANGZ" fans. MJ had 2 at Bron's age. Kobe had 3 as the second best player on his team. I think bron is a cheesy asshole and that dwade is a punk bitch, but you have to give credit where it's due.

[dc_chilling]

LeBron can and will dominate games. I agree that he doesn't seem to be able to turn it on and off though. Actually, I think it's his approach to the game that constantly keeps him in "team mode", even when people think he should be more selfish. I think LeBron truly believes that the best way to win any game is to keep the entire team involved, and for the most part, he's right.

This.

I think he recognizes that there are games that are essentially "less important" (Game 1s, Game 5 vs Brooklyn,etc.) if you will, and in those games he really focuses on getting him teammates involved. He wants his teammates to feel happy with their role on the team and he tries not to dominate the ball too much in these types of games.

When his back is against the wall though (Game 6 in Boston, Game 7's in general), he usually goes off and wills his team to wins. Other than that, I feel like he would much rather win games as a collective unit, rather than a one man show. I don't see why that is a bad thing either.

[AirFederer]

http://media.giphy.com/media/orjr6OEwbbRV6/giphy.gif

This guy would take over all games in today`s NBA and would toss peak Shaq like a rag doll

Also mad ballhandling skillz as seen

:bowdown:

[SpaceJammeR]

he did it against brooklyn. so now he can't? he did it in game 6 against boston. he did it against the spurs in game 6 when they were down and lebron was the reason why they got back in the game. wtf u smoking?? ohhh wait you just a hater

[pauk]

Thats the part which i like the most about Lebron actually, he plays a team game and doesnt force anything (unless he is on fire / heatchecking) except for that its mostly him doing anything offensively accordingly the way opponents defend/play him/his team.... just trying to make the right plays all the time.... just does whatever necessary to win.... and he has been doing that better than anybody lately considering the results....

As far as taking over games scoring, he does it when its time... if not, then they could lose, perhaps, maybe, who knows... you cant just score a basket at 100% rate anytime you wish when you ABSOLUTELY need it, nobody ever could do that, thats a crazy thought..... and even when you DO, sometimes its not enough to win anyways if the opponents are able to retaliate.... then you are just trading baskets due to the awesome defense your teammates play.... its a team game remember?

I do think he has been taking over games pretty good so far though in playoffs and whatever he is doing WORKS... Its only his 2nd loss of the playoffs...

:confusedshrug:

[coin24]

Thats the part which i like the most about Lebron actually, he plays a team game and doesnt force anything (unless he is on fire / heatchecking) except for that its mostly him doing anything offensively accordingly the way opponents defend/play him/his team.... just trying to make the right plays all the time.... just does whatever necessary to win.... and he has been doing that better than anybody lately considering the results....

As far as taking over games scoring, he does it when its time... if not, then they could lose, perhaps, maybe, who knows... you cant just score a basket at 100% rate anytime you wish when you ABSOLUTELY need it, nobody ever could do that, thats a crazy thought..... and even when you DO, sometimes its not enough to win anyways if the opponents are able to retaliate.... then you are just trading baskets due to the awesome defense your teammates play.... its a team game remember?

I do think he has been taking over games pretty good so far though in playoffs and whatever he is doing WORKS... Its only his 2nd loss of the playoffs...

:confusedshrug:

Probably has something to do with playing on a stacked team and facing 40 win teams:lol

[NZStreetBaller]

I dont like Lebron but some of his stans are right in the fact that he does try and get his team mates involved.... Lebron will always be criticized regardless of what he does.
Shoots more and tries to be agressive = selfish ball hog
Shoots less and passes to his team mates and only shoots open shots = stat padder.
Passes to an open player for the final shot = mentally weak choker
Wears a sweat band = because he has an receding hairling
but i think he understands that the most important thing that people cannot argue with regardless of all the hate simply is to win. (even though every victory is now apparently decided by referees) no matter what it takes.

[ralph_i_el]

I dont like Lebron but some of his stans are right in the fact that he does try and get his team mates involved.... Lebron will always be criticized regardless of what he does.
Shoots more and tries to be agressive = selfish ball hog
Shoots less and passes to his team mates and only shoots open shots = stat padder.
Passes to an open player for the final shot = mentally weak choker
Wears a sweat band = because he has an receding hairling
but i think he understands that the most important thing that people cannot argue with regardless of all the hate simply is to win. (even though every victory is now apparently decided by referees) no matter what it takes.

yup. Some people can't separate their hate for lebron from what he does on the court. Respect the game even if you hate the man

[red1]

shut the f*ck up cavsfortheloss

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Lebron looks pretty unstoppable to me. He grabs the defensive rebound and just sprints to the other end of the floor and finishes over 2-3 defenders like it's nothing, he's averaging what, 30 ppg on 56% shooting in the POs? When was the last time someone did that? Shaq?

I think he's been good in the Playoffs this year and has done his job, rest of the team has to step up as well.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :applause:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

While OP is a fakkit of gigantic proportions i hate this about lebron too.
hes a game one loser.
dont get me wrong he played right yesterday and if his team didnt suck so hard the heat would have won the game but at some point you have to say" okay i passed to you guys 20 times and 17 times shit was the result. no screw you guys im taking over". especially since the Pacers have no one to stop him.
he just ALLWAYS plays hot potatoe in game ones and tries to get everyone going even if they lose. he then takes over in the games after that if neccesary.
its lame, but its better than KD the game 1 warrior:coleman:

[nathanjizzle]

just does whatever necessary to win

but he doesnt, if he were a kobe or rose type, the heat would win more games. rose shot 44 percent his mvp season, but he willed his team to the best record in the league by playing aggressively. playing passive, or "what comes to you" are for role players, not leaders or game changers. he could have had 3 championships by now if he didnt allow the mavs to manipulate him.

[red1]

but he doesnt, if he were a kobe or rose type, the heat would win more games. rose shot 44 percent his mvp season, but he willed his team to the best record in the league by playing aggressively. playing passive, or "what comes to you" are for role players, not leaders or game changers. he could have had 3 championships by now if he didnt allow the mavs to manipulate him.
:roll:



you mean this type?

http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/DerrickRose.jpg

[tmacattack33]

:oldlol:

Miami loses one game, in which defense and interior play was their problem, and OP makes a thread like this.

Calm down man, I'll see you Tuesday after game 2.

[Carbine]

Kobe Bryant has one finals games (he played 37) where he scored 40 points or more. That's it.

He has 13 such games in 220 playoff games (which is most likely done) which is 5.9 percent.


LeBron has 12 such games in 148 playoff games. 8.1 percent of the time.

If LeBron is incapable of taking over a game, than Kobe is even more so incapable.

[ralph_i_el]

but he doesnt, if he were a kobe or rose type, the heat would win more games. rose shot 44 percent his mvp season, but he willed his team to the best record in the league by playing aggressively. playing passive, or "what comes to you" are for role players, not leaders or game changers. he could have had 3 championships by now if he didnt allow the mavs to manipulate him.

Rose didn't will his team to shit. He just happened to be a great scorer on an epic defensive team. The Bulls that year had a shit offense and Rose only won the MVP because of their record.

[ralph_i_el]

Kobe Bryant has one finals games (he played 37) where he scored 40 points or more. That's it.

He has 13 such games in 220 playoff games (which is most likely done) which is 5.9 percent.


LeBron has 12 such games in 148 playoff games. 8.1 percent of the time.

If LeBron is incapable of taking over a game, than Kobe is even more so incapable.
:milton

[Dresta]

Within the flow of the game.

OP is right. The fact that he's a cavs fan makes him very knowledgable about Lestat's tendencies. Anyone who disagrees with OP is dumb and should be banned for life from using Mazilla / Chrome and only be resorted to using IE.
Except Lebron didn't play within the flow of the game in his Cleveland days: he completely dominated the offense. He plays more in the flow with Miami because it is conducive to winning, and why they have such a great offense.

[moe94]

CavsFTW is psychologically shackled by this moment.


http://thecryptojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-decision.jpg

Exactly. :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

Except Lebron didn't play within the flow of the game in his Cleveland days: he completely dominated the offense. He plays more in the flow with Miami because it is conducive to winning, and why they have such a great offense.

This,

Tho, sometimes it's on Spo, who messes up the flow, and Lebron doesn't know, should he stop or go. I like it when its a no Spo show and Lebron rolls with what he knows.

[funnystuff]

Cavs fans still upset. :rockon:

[Carbine]

:milton

LeBron also has a higher rate of 35+ point games in the playoffs.

Kobe 17.27 percent

LeBron 18.9

[Nikola_]

LeGameManager

[tpols]

LeBron also has a higher rate of 35+ point games in the playoffs.

Kobe 17.27 percent

LeBron 18.9

Not related to just kobe or lebron, but if one player scores 35 points in a game, but scores 10 in the first quarter, 9 in the second, 8 in the third, and 7 in the fourth, and another scores 35 as well, but scores 4, 6, 20, and 5 in each consecutive quarter which one would be considered the higher impact as far as taking the game over/swinging momentum goes?

[Solefade]

What do 'Finals Clippers' look like? Does anyone know??


i'm guessing it looks something similar to "Finals CP3" :oldlol:

[AirTupac]

You know Bran stans are shook when the only response they have is "LOL CAVS MAD"

[Wally450]

LeBron took over the biggest game to that point 2 years ago against the Celtics in game 6. Dude literally pushed everyone out of the way and did it all. 45 points and 15 boards in an elimination game on the road is no joke.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'm split about this.. I do feel he's way too passive at times, which bugs me... none the less, in the end, it's always worked, yet... He's had HUGE performances in series deciding games... He always brought it, when the team needed it most.

[Mr. Incredible]

You know Bran stans are shook when the only response they have is "LOL CAVS MAD"
This guy ends to come up with new material :sleeping

[FKAri]

I think it just appears that way because he impacts so many aspects of the game. For him to take over and just start ballhogging means less energy on rebounding, defense and playmaking. He is the team's primary contributor in those areas as well. He can't just start putting up shots and leave those other jobs to his teammates because his teammates are better at scoring than they are at any of those other things.

[StrongLurk]

CavsFTW is psychologically shackled by this moment.


http://thecryptojournalist.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-decision.jpg

:pimp:

[YouGotServed]

It's been 4 years, let it go. Your grudge and your inability to move on is a female trait. Beta mentality.

[boozehound]

this is a bunch of horseshit (and I am not even a lebron supporter/fan). He has dominated tons of playoff games down the stretch (against the pistons when he scored 27?of 29 of the last points, against celtics, etc).

[knicksman]

he never is confident with his self. Hes not used to shooting tough shots because it ruins his FG% so when the going gets tough like finals, he gets exposed.

[OldSchoolBBall]

He took over Game 6 last year down the stretch in the finals leading up the Allen 3 to tie it... He can easily do it..

Really? Was it his two bricked shots or his two TO's, all in the final 90 seconds, that constituted "taking over"?

Nice revisionist history. :oldlol:

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Really? Was it his two bricked shots or his two TO's, all in the final 90 seconds, that constituted "taking over"?

Nice revisionist history. :oldlol:

No, it was probably the 16 points he scored in the 4th quarter to help overcome the 10-point lead by the Spurs. Now go back to jerking off to Jordan highlights.

[Roundball_Rock]

How does jacking up a ton of shots fare in the win-loss column? Let's look at the best scoring season for the following players.

Wilt, 1962: 49-31, lost in the ECF.
Jordan, 1987: 40-42, lost in the first round.
R. Barry, 1967: 44-37, lost in the NBA finals.
Bryant, 2006: 45-37, lost in the first round.
Kareem, 1972: 63-19, lost in the WCF.
Baylor, 1962: 54-26, lost in the NBA finals.
McAdoo, 1975: 49-33, lost in the ECSF.
Archibald, 1973: 36-46, missed the playoffs.
Gervin, 1980: 41-41, lost in the first round.
Iverson, 2006: 38-44, missed the playoffs.

It is no coincidence none of these individuals won championships during their top scoring year.

[Young X]

How does jacking up a ton of shots fare in the win-loss column? Let's look at the best scoring season for the following players.

Wilt, 1962: 49-31, lost in the ECF.
Jordan, 1987: 40-42, lost in the first round.
R. Barry, 1967: 44-37, lost in the NBA finals.
Bryant, 2006: 45-37, lost in the first round.
Kareem, 1972: 63-19, lost in the WCF.
Baylor, 1962: 54-26, lost in the NBA finals.
McAdoo, 1975: 49-33, lost in the ECSF.
Archibald, 1973: 36-46, missed the playoffs.
Gervin, 1980: 41-41, lost in the first round.
Iverson, 2006: 38-44, missed the playoffs.

It is no coincidence none of these individuals won championships during their top scoring year.Stupid post. Alot of those players had NO chance of winning a championship because of their weak supporting casts, NOT because of their shooting/scoring. Those guys weren't hurting their teams, they HAD to score to keep their teams competitive. Comparing those situations with Lebron and this Miami team is a joke. You can't be that stupid.