Are the Spurs about to end "hero ball" ?

[Dr.J4ever]

From Jordan, to Kobe, to Lebron, and now to KD, the era of "hero ball" reigns in the NBA. You need multiple superstars to win a title.

If the Spurs win the title this year, a whole generation of young NBA fans will know that a great team will always endure over a team of great individuals. Yes, the Spurs have 1 superstar in Parker(does anyone still consider Duncan or Manu superstars), but they are defined by their depth and team play more than anything else.

There have been exceptions in NBA history, perhaps when Dirk led a good Mavs team over the "hero ball" offense of the Heat. So a resounding Spurs win this year will solidify team ball over "hero ball" once again. Remember also the Spurs should have won the title last year, if not for a a fluke play by the Heat.

Is the NBA about to make another key turn in it's history?

[BlazerRed]

Not really. The Thunder would have beaten the Spurs with Ibaka.

[VIntageNOvel]

the last time non-hero ball win was in 2004, so no

[DukeDelonte13]

good defensive teams can always interrupt offensive flow. When plays break down teams need a guy that can isolate and create offense individually.

The spurs got guys that can all go to work when needed, but they are smart enough to know to use it as a last ditch effort or when an immediate opportunity arises.

[Spaulding]

Not really. The Thunder would have beaten the Spurs with Ibaka.

You don't know that. :no:

[Perfect]

Dirk beat the heat with Hero Ball of his own though

[plowking]

Spurs probably have the best and most talented team in the league. They aren't doing anything new by winning a title with the best team

[D-FENS]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson

[MiseryCityTexas]

Not really. The Thunder would have beaten the Spurs with Ibaka.

No Tiago Splitter wants his revenge on Lebron, and Tiago would have destroyed Ibaka.

[Random_Guy]

no, for one, spurs havent won shit yet(not saying they wont). Then there is the bit about "hero ball", any team needs great players to bail them out, spurs just happen to have three of them. True they are not the mega stars they were, but they still what it takes to score in crucnh time.

[TheMan]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
Ether

It's easier to win with an elite player than with a bunch of good players.

[All Net]

Doesn't end it, would be just a small bump in the road for it. More times than not superstars will win you titles.

[DCL]

spurs got so many damn weapons. even if they're not "superstars" they still gonna bust you up.

[T_L_P]

No, they don't have a superstar. Duncan has been our best player over the past two years. If there is one it's him (though, again, he's not a superstar, neither is Parker).

Hero ball will never die though.

[livinglegend]

Hero ball is a myth. You cant win without a great team around you. Defensively which is 50% of the game you cant play ''hero ball''. Offensively, no team has won by running isos for one player the whole game.

[sportjames23]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson


Good list, but I'd say those Lakers, Celtics and Sixers teams played team ball. Even as dominant as Moses was, the Sixers still played team ball. Same goes for LA and Boston re: Magic and Bird.

[livinglegend]

what a bad display of basketball knowledge by members on this thread! They are saying some teams won without playing team ball. :oldlol:

[Victoire]

No, they don't have a superstar. Duncan has been our best player over the past two years. If there is one it's him (though, again, he's not a superstar, neither is Parker).

Hero ball will never die though.

Stop it englishman, Parker was spurs best player last year, no question about it.

[Akrazotile]

No, they don't have a superstar. Duncan has been our best player over the past two years. If there is one it's him (though, again, he's not a superstar, neither is Parker).

Hero ball will never die though.


Everyday fans really dont LIKE concepts that cant be attached to a face (preferably a handsome one) and treated as the heroic work of one legendary individual. Its just not the way most people are wired. People like a clearly defined leader, whether its really important in that particular instance or not.

Lebron is by far the best player in the league and has been for some time. But hes been on two championship teams. What gives? I thought superstars win titles so why doesnt he have more? No, teams win titles, and that CREATES superstars. In many cases. If Kobe played his career on the bobcats hed have zero rings and be tracy mcgrady. Thats reality. If Jason Kidd or Ray Allen played on those Laker teams, theyd be considered what Magic and Kobe are today. Circumstances rule men, but fans dont like that narrative. They simply love stars and heroes, so in the absence of any they will create them.

Tony Parkers game is tremendously effective in the circumstances hes in but he does not just go to any team and make them an immediate contender. Only Lebron and maybe Duncan and Durant do that. There are no other "real" superstars in the game, just media-concocted ones based on the fan priorities of high volume point totals and dazzling displays of athleticism. Its not related to basketball impact.

[Dresta]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
All those teams played great team ball. Even Kobe's Lakers played great team ball when they were good; when Kobe played hero ball they sucked. From what i've seen of the 80s Celtics/Lakers they played great team ball too - not 'hero' ball at all.

Funnily enough, one of your best examples of 'hero' ball in Wade of 06 i see you've bitterly named 'referees' - moron.

[VengefulAngel]

Superstars win games, Teams win Championships.

[MavsSuperFan]

Not really. The Thunder would have beaten the Spurs with Ibaka.
ibaka is worth a 17 point differential?

[D-FENS]

Good list, but I'd say those Lakers, Celtics and Sixers teams played team ball. Even as dominant as Moses was, the Sixers still played team ball. Same goes for LA and Boston re: Magic and Bird.

What you and I consider TEAM ball are two different things. I consider it a team of players that has no clear individual leader. Yes, a lot of those teams played excellent team basketball with superstars on the team, but to me, you take the superstar off the team and they ain't winning shit. And as much as the 80's Celtics and Lakers were showing off deft passing and teamwork, Magic and Larry were the guys that were dictating the flow of the game and how the game was played.

[Dr.J4ever]

good defensive teams can always interrupt offensive flow. When plays break down teams need a guy that can isolate and create offense individually.

The spurs got guys that can all go to work when needed, but they are smart enough to know to use it as a last ditch effort or when an immediate opportunity arises.
I agree. I'm not saying you can't isolate your best player as part of a larger offense predicated on team ball. The "hero ball" mentality happens when there is a large disparity between superstar stats, and the role players on a particular team. Case in point: last night's Okc-Spurs. Just from memory from what Charles said,3 of OKC's starters had 5 points. They were content for Westbrook and Durant to just keep on "chucking" it.

The result: KD and Brook worn down in the clutch, and no OKC player in the end had the confidence to shoot.

[The Iron Sheik]

all teams who win championships play team ball.

just because a team has a superstar or two, doesn't mean that that team doesn't play as a unit and exclusively resorts to "hero ball". the saying should go "no team wins a title unless role players step up". guys like ray allen, derek fisher, danny green, etc. these are the guys who help put teams over the top.

[Akrazotile]

What you and I consider TEAM ball are two different things. I consider it a team of players that has no clear individual leader. Yes, a lot of those teams played excellent team basketball with superstars on the team, but to me, you take the superstar off the team and they ain't winning shit. And as much as the 80's Celtics and Lakers were showing off deft passing and teamwork, Magic and Larry were the guys that were dictating the flow of the game and how the game was played.


You could say this about guys like Fisher and Posey who played integral roles on multiple title teams.

"Superstars" outside of guys like Lebron, Shaq, MJ, Duncan etc are more replaceable than you and most people think.

Kobe? Durant? Parker? Pierce? Dirk? Wade? These are second tier guys who were elevated to first tier by being on championship-caliber teams in a given year and being the primary ball shooter on them. It was perception associated with making the finals that elevated them, not reality. You could replace them with a lot of similar guys in that role and still be likely to win.

[imdaman99]

Neither series is over. Wow, home teams won their Game 1s easily :facepalm

[Dr.J4ever]

Spurs offense looking fluid, as usual. Balanced scoring all the way to a 2-0 lead?

[jcsrplumply]

Not really. The Thunder would have beaten the Spurs with Ibaka.
with Ibaka, Harden, and the refs.

[Euroleague]

good defensive teams can always interrupt offensive flow. When plays break down teams need a guy that can isolate and create offense individually.

The spurs got guys that can all go to work when needed, but they are smart enough to know to use it as a last ditch effort or when an immediate opportunity arises.

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

The Spurs have not played defense in years.

:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[NumberSix]

The Heat are the complete opposite of hero ball.

[Smoke117]

If this was the case they would have ended it long ago...yet you see wesbrook 25 shots 25 points, durant 25 shots 28 points. Hero ball will never change. Coaches clearly don't have enough control over players being paid millions to actually make them play basketball the right way.

[Milbuck]

Well not really, they're just about to end the Thunder's season.

They got torched pretty frequently in the 2000s by Kobe and Shaq. Frobe especially used to trash the Spurs a while back.

[Chizdog]

The Heat are the complete opposite of hero ball.

This. Heat have the best teamwork I've ever seen. Second is the Spurs.

[Euroleague]

From Jordan, to Kobe, to Lebron, and now to KD, the era of "hero ball" reigns in the NBA. You need multiple superstars to win a title.

If the Spurs win the title this year, a whole generation of young NBA fans will know that a great team will always endure over a team of great individuals. Yes, the Spurs have 1 superstar in Parker(does anyone still consider Duncan or Manu superstars), but they are defined by their depth and team play more than anything else.

There have been exceptions in NBA history, perhaps when Dirk led a good Mavs team over the "hero ball" offense of the Heat. So a resounding Spurs win this year will solidify team ball over "hero ball" once again. Remember also the Spurs should have won the title last year, if not for a a fluke play by the Heat.

Is the NBA about to make another key turn in it's history?

Spanoulis was double and triple teamed by every team (despite being injured) at EuroBasket, and Parker was single covered at the same tournament....and you are calling him a "superstar", when you say Spanoulis could be nothing more than a backup on a playoff team in the NBA.

Seriously, PUT DOWN THE FREAKING CRACK PIPE.

Parker is no superstar. Teams in Europe don't even adjust their defense for him. WTF is wrong with you?

[Milbuck]

Spanoulis was double and triple teamed by every team (despite being injured) at EuroBasket, and Parker was single covered at the same tournament....and you are calling him a "superstar", when you say Spanoulis could be nothing more than a backup on a playoff team in the NBA.

Seriously, PUT DOWN THE FREAKING CRACK PIPE.

Parker is no superstar. Teams in Europe don't even adjust their defense for him. WTF is wrong with you?
He's not just saying it you ****ing dimwit, it's the blatant truth.

http://i.imgur.com/ub2k1jS.png

The guy is just not a good basketball player. Of course he's going to shine in that amateur shithole Euroleage...and get exposed for the unathletic, clumsy, unskilled scrub he truly is in the NBA.

[Ne 1]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Dwayne Wade
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal/Kobe Bryant
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal/Kobe Bryant
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson/Kareem Abdul Jabbar
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Kareem Abdul Jabbar
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Kareem Abdul Jabbar
Fixed that for you.

[Euroleague]

He's not just saying it you ****ing dimwit, it's the blatant truth.

http://i.imgur.com/ub2k1jS.png

The guy is just not a good basketball player. Of course he's going to shine in that amateur shithole Euroleage...and get exposed for the unathletic, clumsy, unskilled scrub he truly is in the NBA.

The league that Bucks rotation players Antetokounmpo and Raduljica were not good enough to make.

And the point was idiot, that no teams in Europe even game plan for Parker, and he's calling him a superstar. It's an absolute joke.

[Black and White]

The league that Bucks rotation players Antetokounmpo and Raduljica were not good enough to make.

And the point was idiot, that no teams in Europe even game plan for Parker, and he's calling him a superstar. It's an absolute joke.

If Vassilis is so good, why didn't he win Euroleague MVP? I believe it was won by an ex NBA role player/bench warmer AGAIN

[Micku]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson

I disagree with your apparent definition of team ball.

All the 80s team played team ball imo. For example in playoffs in Celtics 86, nearly 70% of their FG come by assists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4).

Even the 90s Bulls played team ball. MJ played within the team offense, and he attacked pretty quickly. He didn't hold the ball as much as some stars do today. The Bulls were also top 3-5 in assists most of the time, despite playing slow pace compared to the rest of the league. And they played the triangle which encourage ball movement. Assists itself don't mind team ball either. Pistons 04 weren't top 10 in assists. The Spurs 07 weren't either.

Just because your team has a superstar, it doesn't mean that the team don't play team ball. It seems your definition of team ball relies is solely a team that don't have a top 3 talent.

[Euroleague]

The Heat are the complete opposite of hero ball.

True. LeBron is like the anti Harden. He's afraid to touch the ball and shoot it, when the loss is coming....

Wade does not want the ball when the pressure is on and the ball is heavy...

Bosh is super inconsistent...

It's certainly not hero ball that the Heat are usually playing...it's more like a game of hot potato.

[Euroleague]

If Vassilis is so good, why didn't he win Euroleague MVP? I believe it was won by an ex NBA role player/bench warmer AGAIN

If LeBron is so good, why didn't he win MVP?

Ignore list for having the IQ of a rock.

[plowking]

Well not really, they're just about to end the Thunder's season.

They got torched pretty frequently in the 2000s by Kobe and Shaq. Frobe especially used to trash the Spurs a while back.

Current Spurs are better. This is seriously one of the best teams I've seen since the 2000 Lakers.

[Black and White]

I LeBron is so good, why didn't he win MVP?

Ignore list for having the IQ of a rock.

Instant loss for you :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


The NBA is better than Euroleague, another ex NBA player goes over there and takes a dump on that d-league level tournament.

[Euroleague]

I disagree with your apparent definition of team ball.

All the 80s team played team ball imo. For example in playoffs in Celtics 86, nearly 70% of their FG come by assists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4).

Even the 90s Bulls played team ball. MJ played within the team offense, and he attacked pretty quickly. He didn't hold the ball as much as some stars do today. The Bulls were also top 3-5 in assists most of the time, despite playing slow pace compared to the rest of the league. And they played the triangle which encourage ball movement.

Just because your team has a superstar, it doesn't mean that the team don't play team ball. It seems your definition of team ball relies is solely a team that don't have a top 3 talent.

True that those teams played as a team. However, running a triangle offense and having assists on field goals (especially how the NBA counts assists) really has nothing to do with whether or not you are playing as a team.

[Black and White]

Current Spurs are better. This is seriously one of the best teams I've seen since the 2000 Lakers.

The balance on this team is incredible, they have essentially the perfect system, the right role players, its going to be incredibly tough for whoever comes out of the East to find holes in this squad.

[Micku]

True that those teams played as a team. However, running a triangle offense and having assists on field goals (especially how the NBA counts assists) really has nothing to do with whether or not you are playing as a team.

Yeah, I mentioned that in my edit. I didn't post that in my original post.

Ball movement and players knowing their role shows team ball imo. It doesn't matter if you have a superstar.

[Euroleague]

Instant loss for you :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:


The NBA is better than Euroleague, another ex NBA player goes over there and takes a dump on that d-league level tournament.

You mean like the hundreds of NBA rotation players that have been scrubs in Euroleague?

You mean like the dozens of scrubs from Europe that have been starters and 6th men and rotation players in the NBA?

And "instantly"......how is playing for years in the league and then winning one MVP, "instantly"?

IGNORE LIST FOR BEING A LIAR

[Dr.J4ever]

Current Spurs are better. This is seriously one of the best teams I've seen since the 2000 Lakers.
A lot of simplistic fans will just count...hmmm OKC has the 2 best stars in the series so OKC>Spurs....but Spurs work as a team to a degree I haven't seen in years.

This is just a blitz what's going on right now. The lead is up to 30 over a good defensive club in OKC. Ibaka's presence obviously looming large. A lot of fans here on this board didn't think it would matter too much. Even the guys in "the starters" were split 2-2 on who would take the series, even with Ibaka out.

[AintNoSunshine]

It's not like every team has their own Coach Mt. Rushmore Pop/GOAT PF Duncan/Superstar PG Parker/Great wildcard Ginobili/Great Scouting team

[Black and White]

You mean like the hundreds of NBA rotation players that have been scrubs in Euroleague?

You mean like the dozens of scrubs from Europe that have been starters and 6th men and rotation players in the NBA?

And "instantly"......how is playing for years in the league and then winning one MVP, "instantly"?

IGNORE LIST FOR BEING A LIAR

Whats the list of these hundreds of NBA starters that went to EL?

[Smoke117]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson

You're a ****ing idiot. If the reason the Bulls won 6 championships was Michael Jordan why didn't they win the first 6 seasons of his career? I mean they won because of him, so why did it take so long? The Bulls played some of the best team basketball ever and that was because they had Jordan and Pippen...Scottie who got the others involved and made them matter while scoring 20 himself while Jordan did his 30+ thing that didn't work for more than half a decade. You're a genius, go kill yourself.

[Dr.J4ever]

27 assist to 12 turnovers for SA..Good defense too by the Spurs! When OKC rallied 2 years ago from a 0-2 deficit, they had Harden, who went "bananas" according to Steve Kerr.

I expect the Spurs to win the 3rd game again, lose the 4th, and then close out the series in game 5 at home.

[Gotterdammerung]

Everyday fans really dont LIKE concepts that cant be attached to a face (preferably a handsome one) and treated as the heroic work of one legendary individual. Its just not the way most people are wired. People like a clearly defined leader, whether its really important in that particular instance or not.

Lebron is by far the best player in the league and has been for some time. But hes been on two championship teams. What gives? I thought superstars win titles so why doesnt he have more? No, teams win titles, and that CREATES superstars. In many cases. If Kobe played his career on the bobcats hed have zero rings and be tracy mcgrady. Thats reality. If Jason Kidd or Ray Allen played on those Laker teams, theyd be considered what Magic and Kobe are today. Circumstances rule men, but fans dont like that narrative. They simply love stars and heroes, so in the absence of any they will create them.

Tony Parkers game is tremendously effective in the circumstances hes in but he does not just go to any team and make them an immediate contender. Only Lebron and maybe Duncan and Durant do that. There are no other "real" superstars in the game, just media-concocted ones based on the fan priorities of high volume point totals and dazzling displays of athleticism. Its not related to basketball impact.

Best post I've read in months.
:applause:

[J Shuttlesworth]

Even though Heat have wade/lebron, I wouldn't really call them hero ball. Even last night, their clutch buckets were made off playmaking, not pure talent.

[dreamwarrior]

Parker isn't a superstar. Nobody is out there buying up Tony Parker jerseys. But he's probably the best PG in the NBA at least when it comes to the eye test. His stats other than scoring seem average and even his ws this post season is just .70 half of his reg season total yet he's totally breaking down his opponents.

[Micku]

Even though Heat have wade/lebron, I wouldn't really call them hero ball. Even last night, their clutch buckets were made off playmaking, not pure talent.

Yeah, the Heat do have ball movement as well. Not as much as the Spurs, and they do have their hero ballish sometimes, but they aren't 2011 Heat anymore with iso almost every play.

[aboss4real24]

Heat in 7

Pacers in 6

[RoseCity07]

You still need stars. Tony parker, Tim Duncan, and Manu. They don't win without them.

[Dr.J4ever]

From Balls Don't Lie:

"Duncan contributed a double-double (12 points, 14 rebounds and two blocks) in just 28 minutes, but it was his screening, his movement and his presence that made all the difference. This seems like silly, intangible-obsessed fawning, but the Thunder were obviously making a point to crowd the Spurs big man and take him away from the 21-point first half he offered in San Antonio's Game 1 win. As a result, Duncan decided to stick his rear end out and open up shots for his teammates, and Green owes him dinner tonight."

When people ask--what more is there beyond individual stats? There is a LOT more.

[Euroleague]

Whats the list of these hundreds of NBA starters that went to EL?

It's been posted here over and over and over.

STOP TROLLING.

[Euroleague]

27 assist to 12 turnovers for SA..Good defense too by the Spurs! When OKC rallied 2 years ago from a 0-2 deficit, they had Harden, who went "bananas" according to Steve Kerr.

I expect the Spurs to win the 3rd game again, lose the 4th, and then close out the series in game 5 at home.

Is this guy serious? Other than Diaw, Leonard, and Splitter their team is atrocious at defense.

[nightprowler10]

How the **** was 2013 heroball by LeBron?

[Euroleague]

How the **** was 2013 heroball by LeBron?

It wasn't. Like I said, it was more like a game of hot potato, with a lucky bounce into Ray Allen's hands.

Hero ball would be what happens in Houston or OKC.

[deja vu]

Spurs are more the exception than the rule.

[Dr.J4ever]

From Balls Don't Lie:

"Duncan contributed a double-double (12 points, 14 rebounds and two blocks) in just 28 minutes, but it was his screening, his movement and his presence that made all the difference. This seems like silly, intangible-obsessed fawning, but the Thunder were obviously making a point to crowd the Spurs big man and take him away from the 21-point first half he offered in San Antonio's Game 1 win. As a result, Duncan decided to stick his rear end out and open up shots for his teammates, and Green owes him dinner tonight."

When people ask--what more is there beyond individual stats? There is a LOT more.
The intangibles of the game..Many younger fans wouldn't know it if it stared at them in the face. Sixers coach Brett Brown is from the Spurs coaching tree. Hope we can inherit this great Spurs dynasty.

[Darius]

Hero ball is a myth. You cant win without a great team around you. Defensively which is 50% of the game you cant play ''hero ball''. Offensively, no team has won by running isos for one player the whole game.

Most teams run ISOs for their stars in the last 2-3 minutes of a game.

Spurs keep running their regular pass happy offense which is unprecedented.

[Dr.J4ever]

Great adjustment by Poppovich, and another great team effort! This series will, in all probability, still go to 7. If the Spurs move on to the Finals, I believe they have the better chance vs. the Heat than OKC would have.

OKC will just try to out-"hero ball" the Heat, and we know Lebron is the best "hero ball" guy in the NBA.

[Random_Guy]

Great adjustment by Poppovich, and another great team effort! This series will, in all probability, still go to 7. If the Spurs move on to the Finals, I believe they have the better chance vs. the Heat than OKC would have.

OKC will just try to out-"hero ball" the Heat, and we know Lebron is the best "hero ball" guy in the NBA.
lebron will bully kd in the post.

[Dr.J4ever]

lebron will bully kd in the post.
I agree. Lebron has a bigger effect on making his teammates better than KD. Westbrook can be off and on, and a lot of his perimeter shooting can be "fool's gold".

[Dr.J4ever]

Without their superstar, and anchored on Tim Duncan, the Spurs defeat a powerful OKC team led by 2 of the best superstars in the NBA!!:rockon: :cheers:

[Dr.J4ever]

Without their superstar, and anchored on Tim Duncan, the Spurs defeat a powerful OKC team led by 2 of the best superstars in the NBA!!:rockon: :cheers:
Really, even Game 5 only saw Tony Parker contribute like 12 points if I'm not mistaken.

[Dr.J4ever]

Picked this up from a local San Antonio paper..No team in 50 years has displayed this kind of balance:

"Depth has been a key factor all season long for the Spurs, who proved that star power isn

[La Frescobaldi]

[QUOTE=Dr.J4ever]Picked this up from a local San Antonio paper..No team in 50 years has displayed this kind of balance:

"Depth has been a key factor all season long for the Spurs, who proved that star power isn

[Mr.Kite]

Bran is anything but Hero ball.

[Dr.J4ever]

reminds you all the more that, of all the teams since, the Spurs play most like those old Celtics teams.
They say the Spurs also play like the early 70's Knicks of Bradley, Reed, Frazier, etc..

[La Frescobaldi]

They say the Spurs also play like the early 70's Knicks of Bradley, Reed, Frazier, etc..

Less so than the Celtics maybe.... but yeah you can see that to a certain extent, especially later on when Earl the Pearl showed up because Parker has a similar style of flash and spin and drives.

But there's nobody that does what Clyde did. I'm not thinking of anybody right now in the NBA that plays like Frazier really.
Walt Frazier was flawless in every aspect of a guard. Defense was as great as his offense, free throws, clutch, sweetest jumper from all the way around the court, no weak spot..... grand theft right there on the court in front of everybody..... he had everything going on.
Different too because you would be saying Jerry Lucas had Tim D's role and while he was in no way the full package that Duncan is - Timmy is maybe the best PF ever to play basketball - Lucas was a better rebounder and also had downtown locked up. Ain't for nothing they used to call his 25 footer a Lucas Layup.
Dude was way-outside money like Danny Green but yet a PF who could play defense for real on Wilt Chamberlain or Bob Lanier. Jerry Lucas reminds a lot of older guys of Kevin Love.... if you could just ever picture Kevin Love being able to be putting the stops on Pau Gasol or earlier days Kevin Garnett. Is it true Love is going to freaking Boston?

Let's see... then there was Dave DeBusschere and that'd be Kawhi Leonard lol now THERE's two monsters. Of course Dave did it over seasons and a full decade of the very top of the league while Leonard has what, 3 years so far? He's playing great ball but he's not like that dude. DeBusschere was so weird unothodox in his playing style but powerful strong and could finish fine or shoot from outside... all round a great player really. That freaking Knicks squad was stacked, man. I'm thinking about their bench!! lol they were great like Cazzie Russell, Dean Meminger - who actually did start sometimes over Earl Monroe - P Jax... great great teams.

I saw DeBusschere drive up to a playground one afternoon, it was one of those old flat nose vans of the hippie days you know, curtains, painted all different kinds of ways. Drove right up over the curb and up to the fence lol.

Well he got out with about 12 other dudes and he went to the corner. Of course all 4 courts just stopped and everybody was watching, hoping to get some of that game. But he just waved for the ball and dropped it in bang! He made 8 in a row from right there in the corner, went over to that van and took off. That was late 60s probly, seems like he was a Knick already
But the Spurs have nothing to compare to Willis Reed though. Now there was a basketball player right there.

But as far as those Knicks and playing like these Spurs? yeah maybe so. Ball moves fast and smooth like that, there's going to be some similarities to a point.

[Dr.J4ever]

A balanced offensive and defensive effort led by the Spurs supposed non-stars . What other team in NBA Finals history would go with their bench to close out the game?

Great team effort!:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Buzissa]

I can't even rank my favorite players in this Spurs team, I love them all. Amazing team!:applause:

[knicksman]

nah. NBA is too stupid to think solo games(tennis, golf) are better than team games(NFL, soccer).

[Dr.J4ever]

nah. NBA is too stupid to think solo games(tennis, golf) are better than team games(NFL, soccer).

I agree with you about the NFL, and the team game. The appeal of the NFL is because of the interdependence of each player to team success, things can easily change from game to game, and season to season. It gives the games an air of unpredictability.

Thus it's appeal. Hopefully a Spurs win can change that.

[knicksman]

I agree with you about the NFL, and the team game. The appeal of the NFL is because of the interdependence of each player to team success, things can easily change from game to game, and season to season. It gives the games an air of unpredictability.

Thus it's appeal. Hopefully a Spurs win can change that.

Meh.. Silver is worse than stern when it comes to rigging so I doubt theyll let the spurs win.

[Dr.J4ever]

The gap is getting larger and larger. A real team may be about to beat a superstar centered team for one of the few times in NBA Finals history. It really happened last year, except for a few lucky plays for Miami.

I still submit, depending on the final results, and how Miami will lose, this could still turn out to be a watershed event. Not that you won't need superstars to win, but more teams will try to duplicate the Spurs all- inclusive attack, both offensively and defensively.:bowdown:

[Jacks3]

lol @ people acting like the Spurs aren't one of the most talented teams in the league.

[1987_Lakers]

lol @ people acting like the Spurs aren't one of the most talented teams in the league.

San Antonio would have been eliminated in the first round if they were coached by Mike Brown.

[houston]

Man the Spurs still have a championship core they still plays at an effective level with All-NBA/all-star guard with a 6th man all-star/all-nba quality guard plus of course tim duncan.

[Jacks3]

San Antonio would have been eliminated in the first round if they were coached by Mike Brown.
That's because Mike Brown is one of the worst coaches ever.

The Spurs have about 4 different players who are top 5-10 at their positions and the best bench in the league. People act like they're a bunch of scrubs. :oldlol:

[Dr.J4ever]

Zach Lowe breaks down why the Heat lost game 4.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we-went-there-scene-of-the-game-4-crime/

[deja vu]

The Spurs are a great passing team but not all teams can duplicate their philosophy. Teams who want to replicate the Spurs ways would also need a tactical genius like Pop, and they're rare.

"Hero ball" is still viable and is still the best and quickest way to win championships. Outside the Spurs, most championships were won by superstar players with "hero ball" mentality like Jordan and Kobe. Sure they relied on "hero ball" but their teams were still fundamentally and tactically sound.

[Jacks3]

The teams led by Jordan and Kobe were all great passing teams.

[Rocketswin2013]

The teams led by Jordan and Kobe were all great passing teams.
Teams led by Jordan and Kobe were tougher to beat than teams led by possibly Danny Green and Boris Diaw nightly. just the truth. "Hero ball" (:facepalm what a terrible term) will always dominate this league because the greatest players can impact games at a level an entire team can't at times. Hence Kobe scoring more than Dallas in 3 quarters....Hell, even Duncan in his prime drawing double team after double team for wide open 3's. Shaq, Jordan, etc.....

[Jacks3]

Also we've seen teams like the Spurs before.

Ensemble teams like the 79 Sonics, 89/90 Pistons, 2004 Pistons...none of them ended "hero ball" and neither will the Spurs. The superstars will always rule this league. Always.

[GimmeThat]

the Detroit Pistons may have existed a little bit longer than the San Antonio Spurs.

[lakerstekkenn]

The heat don't have a system just a bunch of super stars super star ball that's there problem but the spurs have a system tri plus prince and read react ofence
same thing read react plus great D its a team game not a one man show simple basketball pat should no this

funny thing mike brown knew this but Laker fans where inpatient so was management that's why we failed

[305Baller]

From Jordan, to Kobe, to Lebron, and now to KD, the era of "hero ball" reigns in the NBA. You need multiple superstars to win a title.

If the Spurs win the title this year, a whole generation of young NBA fans will know that a great team will always endure over a team of great individuals. Yes, the Spurs have 1 superstar in Parker(does anyone still consider Duncan or Manu superstars), but they are defined by their depth and team play more than anything else.

There have been exceptions in NBA history, perhaps when Dirk led a good Mavs team over the "hero ball" offense of the Heat. So a resounding Spurs win this year will solidify team ball over "hero ball" once again. Remember also the Spurs should have won the title last year, if not for a a fluke play by the Heat.

Is the NBA about to make another key turn in it's history?


Maybe.

[La Frescobaldi]

the Detroit Pistons may have existed a little bit longer than the San Antonio Spurs.

yeah but they stank for decades at a time tho

brandon jennings is a typical detroit piston.

[GimmeThat]

yeah but they stank for decades at a time tho

brandon jennings is a typical detroit piston.

I guess it's not nessecarily easy to find the will/ability to win in journeymens

how Chauncy Billups was passed up by many teams, Ben Wallace was undrafted etc.


I don't know about Brandon Jennings being a typical Detroit Pistons

Is he a typical sixers though, THAT, is the question

[FKAri]

Teams led by Jordan and Kobe were tougher to beat than teams led by possibly Danny Green and Boris Diaw nightly. just the truth. "Hero ball" (:facepalm what a terrible term) will always dominate this league because the greatest players can impact games at a level an entire team can't at times. Hence Kobe scoring more than Dallas in 3 quarters....Hell, even Duncan in his prime drawing double team after double team for wide open 3's. Shaq, Jordan, etc.....

Theoretically hero ball should actually perform much worse than team ball but in the NBA it doesn't mainly because you don't have team cores that have stayed together long enough to establish the level of cohesive they would need to maximize their synergy.

[FKAri]

Zach Lowe breaks down why the Heat lost game 4.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/we-went-there-scene-of-the-game-4-crime/

that's pretty awesome.

I especially liked this:
[quote]https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/spursd2.png

Look at Danny Green in that photo. He should in theory rotate to Wade, but he

[STATUTORY]

if Spurs is ending it then Kobe will be reviving it next season when he's back and healthy and murking Duncan's spurs again

Hero ball works as long as you are not miscasting betas in the role of heroes

[Beastmode88]

if Spurs is ending it then Kobe will be reviving it next season when he's back and healthy and murking Duncan's spurs again

Hero ball works as long as you are not miscasting betas in the role of heroes

Yeah right, lakers probably gonna miss the playoffs again at this rate. They have done jack shit to add to their roster. #kobeisdone

[Straight_Ballin]

Also we've seen teams like the Spurs before.

Ensemble teams like the 79 Sonics, 89/90 Pistons, 2004 Pistons...none of them ended "hero ball" and neither will the Spurs. The superstars will always rule this league. Always.

Superstars always rule the leauge but yet on the biggest stage, a role player named Leonard is out playing the league's self proclaimed "best player" ?!?

Lebron hugging the alpha who dominated him in the last 2 games.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/gazettetimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/85/385549d7-f3d5-594b-bea1-ba8007df03b7/51c3db929dda6.preview-620.jpg

[Beastmode88]

Superstars always rule the leauge but yet on the biggest stage, a role player named Leonard is out playing the league's self proclaimed "best player" ?!?

Lebron hugging the alpha who dominated him in the last 2 games.

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/gazettetimes.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/3/85/385549d7-f3d5-594b-bea1-ba8007df03b7/51c3db929dda6.preview-620.jpg

He's whispering.. "I'll take a paycut if you come to Miami." :applause: :applause:

[haji_d_robertas]

For the record, if you are playing in the triangle offence, you are playing team ball.

[Bigsmoke]

Unless this Spurs team wins the next 3 championships, I wouldn't entertain the idea that superstar led teams are dead.

In the last 34 years we have seen exactly 5 teams win championships without having what I consider to be a top 3 player in the league. The team may still be stacked like the 08 Celtics, or the back to back Pistons, but there is no top 3 player for that season on the team.

Great players almost always win championships. That's why teams tank for loaded lottery classes. They're hoping for transcendent talent. They're hoping to draft the next Magic, Duncan or Jordan. They want a guy that will stick around for the next 15 years with that franchise that players will come to play with.

2013 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2012 - Miami Heat - LeBron James
2011 - Dallas Mavericks - Dirk Nowitzki
2010 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2009 - LA Lakers - Kobe Bryant
2008 - Boston Celtics - TEAM Ball
2007 - San Antonio Spurs - TEAM Ball
2006 - Miami Heat - Referees
2005 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2004 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
2003 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
2002 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2001 - LA Lakers - Shaquille O'Neal
2000 - LA Lakers - Shaquilles O'Neal
1999 - San Antonio Spurs - Tim Duncan
1998 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1997 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1996 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1995 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1994 - Houston Rockets - Hakeem Olajuwon
1993 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1992 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1991 - Chicago Bulls - Michael Jordan
1990 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1989 - Detroit Pistons - TEAM Ball
1988 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1987 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1986 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1985 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1984 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1983 - Philadelphia 76ers - Moses Malone
1982 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson
1981 - Boston Celtics - Larry Bird
1980 - LA Lakers - Magic Johnson

The 08 Celtics played team ball with hero players tho. They have 3 of the best 4 players on the court most nights including the best player when not playing against the Lakers, Hornets, or Cavs

[Dr.J4ever]

Wow:bowdown:

[Dr.J4ever]

Nothing punctuates my point more than this championship clincher. Parker starts cold in the 1st half, but his backup, Mills, goes berserk.

Team ball SA are WORLD CHAMPIONS AGAIN!!!!:cheers: :banana:

[NBASTATMAN]

From Jordan, to Kobe, to Lebron, and now to KD, the era of "hero ball" reigns in the NBA. You need multiple superstars to win a title.

If the Spurs win the title this year, a whole generation of young NBA fans will know that a great team will always endure over a team of great individuals. Yes, the Spurs have 1 superstar in Parker(does anyone still consider Duncan or Manu superstars), but they are defined by their depth and team play more than anything else.

There have been exceptions in NBA history, perhaps when Dirk led a good Mavs team over the "hero ball" offense of the Heat. So a resounding Spurs win this year will solidify team ball over "hero ball" once again. Remember also the Spurs should have won the title last year, if not for a a fluke play by the Heat.

Is the NBA about to make another key turn in it's history?


Now that sTERN has left I hope no more SuperStars getting preferential treatment...

[Dr.J4ever]

From ESPN's Insider:

Hyper-efficient offense

We start where the Spurs' victory began: at the offensive end of the floor. With its ball movement and outside shooting, San Antonio put on a clinic at times, particularly in the first half of Game 3. The Spurs ended up with a 124.0 offensive rating for the series, the best by any team in a Finals dating back to 1978 (the first year for which Basketball-Reference.com has turnovers by series).

San Antonio's .528 shooting percentage was an NBA Finals record, but that doesn't tell the whole story of how well the Spurs shot the ball. They made 55 3-pointers -- more than any team has ever made in a Finals of fewer than seven games -- and shot them at a 46.6 percent clip.

Effective field goal percentage, which accounts for the additional value of 3s by treating them as 1.5 field goals, does a better job of capturing San Antonio's efficient shooting. The Spurs' 60.4 percent mark blew away the previous record (55.5 percent by the 2002 Lakers).

My take:

It is undeniable. This SA team in the Finals is the best offensive team I've ever seen, and I've been watching the NBA since 1980. Lots of good offensive teams in 80s too, but many of those offenses would struggle against today's defensive rule changes. Different times, different eras.

Let's focus on the Spurs. Have the Spurs blazed the trail and shown the light that 5 MAN TEAM BASKETBALL on OFFENSE can work? For years, NBA teams have always believed you need 2 or 3 guys to score and do most of the work on offense. You make a couple of passes or no passes, and you're main guy takes the shot. It doesn't matter if it's contested, as long as you're "hero" takes the shot. The "alpha guy" should take the shot, no matter what.

The Spurs have shown teams that rely on "hero ball", or superstar oriented team basketball, will be less efficient than a team that plays 5 man offense.
After all, the Spurs have shown that an open shot by Danny Greeen or Patty Mills will be a more efficient shot than a contested 3 by James or a contested drive by Wade. It is counter intuitive to most NBA fans, but Coach Pop has adjusted and has kept the Spurs relevant by having an international oriented offensive game plan.

The Spurs passing game is the best I've ever seen also. It's not just total assist, but the number of passes per possession, "hockey assists" or passes that lead to assist passes that really tell the tale when it comes to team basketball.

I believe there are many NBA teams that can duplicate the Spurs system, contrary to what others might think. I've always believed that most NBA players can play good basketball if given the right opportunity in the right system. When people say, "we don't have a bench" or "our players surrounding our superstar suck", it's because these players aren't given the right opportunity to shine. I mean, Diaw was trash until Pop signed him and discovered what he can do.

In sports. whether it's the NFL or the NBA, people are looking for trends. Have the Spurs set the latest trend? Real team basketball where 5 players on offense can each take the best shot possible at anytime?

We will still need the superstars, but hopefully our collective basketball IQs get better and recognize that a real team working in concert will always beat a team of talented individuals who aren't as harmonious.

[Dr.J4ever]

From ESPN's Insider:

Hyper-efficient offense

We start where the Spurs' victory began: at the offensive end of the floor. With its ball movement and outside shooting, San Antonio put on a clinic at times, particularly in the first half of Game 3. The Spurs ended up with a 124.0 offensive rating for the series, the best by any team in a Finals dating back to 1978 (the first year for which Basketball-Reference.com has turnovers by series).

San Antonio's .528 shooting percentage was an NBA Finals record, but that doesn't tell the whole story of how well the Spurs shot the ball. They made 55 3-pointers -- more than any team has ever made in a Finals of fewer than seven games -- and shot them at a 46.6 percent clip.

Effective field goal percentage, which accounts for the additional value of 3s by treating them as 1.5 field goals, does a better job of capturing San Antonio's efficient shooting. The Spurs' 60.4 percent mark blew away the previous record (55.5 percent by the 2002 Lakers).

My take:

It is undeniable. This SA team in the Finals is the best offensive team I've ever seen, and I've been watching the NBA since 1980. Lots of good offensive teams in 80s too, but many of those offenses would struggle against today's defensive rule changes. Different times, different eras.

Let's focus on the Spurs. Have the Spurs blazed the trail and shown the light that 5 MAN TEAM BASKETBALL on OFFENSE can work? For years, NBA teams have always believed you need 2 or 3 guys to score and do most of the work on offense. You make a couple of passes or no passes, and you're main guy takes the shot. It doesn't matter if it's contested, as long as you're "hero" takes the shot. The "alpha guy" should take the shot, no matter what.

The Spurs have shown teams that rely on "hero ball", or superstar oriented team basketball, will be less efficient than a team that plays 5 man offense.
After all, the Spurs have shown that an open shot by Danny Greeen or Patty Mills will be a more efficient shot than a contested 3 by James or a contested drive by Wade. It is counter intuitive to most NBA fans, but Coach Pop has adjusted and has kept the Spurs relevant by having an international oriented offensive game plan.

The Spurs passing game is the best I've ever seen also. It's not just total assist, but the number of passes per possession, "hockey assists" or passes that lead to assist passes that really tell the tale when it comes to team basketball.

I believe there are many NBA teams that can duplicate the Spurs system, contrary to what others might think. I've always believed that most NBA players can play good basketball if given the right opportunity in the right system. When people say, "we don't have a bench" or "our players surrounding our superstar suck", it's because these players aren't given the right opportunity to shine. I mean, Diaw was trash until Pop signed him and discovered what he can do.

In sports. whether it's the NFL or the NBA, people are looking for trends. Have the Spurs set the latest trend? Real team basketball where 5 players on offense can each take the best shot possible at anytime?

We will still need the superstars, but hopefully our collective basketball IQs get better and recognize that a real team working in concert will always beat a team of talented individuals who aren't as harmonious.

Other writers like the SI.com's Michael Rosenberg has an article very similar to what I am saying in this thread:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140616/san-antonio-spurs-nba-title-whats-next/

For years, people talk about "fundamental basketball", and then do the exact opposite on the court. People like to give it lip service, but deep down no one really believed that a team playing in a "democratic" system, not the superstar oriented "hero ball" concept, could really win an NBA Title.

Sure, equal opportunity offenses could win in the NCAA or highschool, but not in the pros. We all believed that. Along with Detroit in 2004, and now the Spurs, basically in back to back years(they really won last year save a lucky play by Miami), the Spurs have proven that 5 man team basketball beats superstar oriented ball led by the Heat.

Some posts here mistakenly think it's about assists or just passing. Superstar oriented teams pass it too, but "hero ball" or "alpha beta" mentality is deeply ingrained in their offenses, in reality. That is not real team ball. We now know what real team ball looks like, if you watched the Finals.

The Spurs have just dominated maybe the greatest superstar oriented team of our generation. I submit, in sports, we know league's copy what works best. You will start to see more and more teams use the Spurs formula.

I will be watching for it.

[DonDadda59]

The Atlanta Hawks.

[Dr.J4ever]

The Atlanta Hawks.

Almost forgot about this thread:lol ...Anyway what a performance by James tonight. We are witnessing one of the great players in history and if you aren't impressed, then you're not a true fan. :applause:

Yep, watching these playoffs will show that "hero ball" is not dead, but it's evolving, to be sure. You're right about the Hawks, and Magic just mentioned on Twitter that Atlanta is the only team left standing without a superstar, and it showed.

We are actually having this debate in Philly right now. As you know, Hinkie is rebuilding, and we are hoping to build around what our CEO recently mentioned, on "Ferraris in our garage" right now. Embiid, Noel, Saric, and our #3 pick(Russel or Mudiay). I fully support this.

However, others have commented that our tanking wasn't really worth it pointing to teams like Atlanta that has just won 60 games. After all, the Hawks have assembled a team with borderline stars/average but smart players/scrubs and good coaching. The "pro-plan" people like me have countered that Atlanta isn't likely to win a title without a superstar.

So yes, I see the NBA evolving, but I do still see the necessity of stars or superstar players to win a title. I realize it's easy to sit back and analyze that "hero ball" is completely dead, but push comes to shove and if it's my team we're talking about, I want those superstars on my team.

[DonDadda59]

Well, it was a fun hero-less era while it lasted.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-zh2OxPk99CY/T_NL1oeaKwI/AAAAAAAAHY0/puePLJ1hWSY/s1600/hero.png