Prime Manu or current Harden, you do you got?

[fandarko]

I've stumbled upon this interesting video comparing them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgoOS1FGcmw

How do you think Manu would have fared in an alpha dog role like Harden in Houston?

Who do you think is a better player in their prime?

I'd give a slight edge to Manu because of his illustrious international career. Skills wise it's very close, with Manu having a slight edge on passing, defense and team play and Harden perhaps being a tad abler shooter.

Discuss

[oarabbus]

Prime Manu by a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG shot. Manu is not a massively negative defender.

[DCL]

manu.

next question.

[Milbuck]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[navy]

Prime Manu is underrated. I honestly think he is the top 7 shooting guards of all time.

[Carter_17]

I've stumbled upon this interesting video comparing them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgoOS1FGcmw

How do you think Manu would have fared in an alpha dog role like Harden in Houston?

Who do you think is a better player in their prime?

I'd give a slight edge to Manu because of his illustrious international career. Skills wise it's very close, with Manu having a slight edge on passing, defense and team play and Harden perhaps being a tad abler shooter.

Discuss


Manu had an alpha spot in his national team and in Kinder with which he won the Euroleague and the Italian League. He can have an alpha spot in an NBA team although that team won't make past the first round playoffs with only him hero ball. Replace currend Harden with prime manu in Rockets though and you got a championship team.

[AirFederer]

Lol.

BBIQ>>>>FT's

[fiddy]

hahhaah

[Mr Exlax]

Is this for real? Gimme Manu all day and tomorrow. Harden won't really blossom until we get a coach that's gonna make him work.

[strifed169]

This shouldn't be a question, Harden is the worst black hole in league history vs one of the goat 6th men

[fiddy]

Is this for real? Gimme Manu all day and tomorrow. Harden won't really blossom until we get a coach that's gonna make him work.
:whatever:

[Smook A.]

:kobe:

Why would you ask a dull-witted question like that? James Harden is probably the most hated basketball player in all of America. People on here would pick a pencil over him. You already know everyone here is picking Manu Ginobili. Personally i'd pick Manu too because he plays great in the playoffs.

[Uncle Drew]

:kobe:

Why would you ask a dull-witted question like that? James Harden is probably the most hated basketball player in all of America. People on here would pick a pencil over him. You already know everyone here is picking Manu Ginobili. Personally i'd pick Manu too because he plays great in the playoffs.
Everyone's picking Manu because Manu is the far superior player (let alone prime Manu). Has nothing to do with Harden being the most hated player on the planet. 2005 Manu is a basketball God.

[Smook A.]

Everyone's picking Manu because Manu is the far superior player (let alone prime Manu). Has nothing to do with Harden being the most hated player on the planet. 2005 Manu is a basketball God.
Can't disagree with that.

If prime Manu Ginobili had the role current Harden has then I think he'd average 26/5/5. One of the GOAT international players with Dirk.

[dannywpt]

Prime Manu by a a bazillion miles

[JimmyMcAdocious]

2013 Finals Manu or 2012 Finals Harden?

[fiddy]

2013 Finals Manu or 2012 Finals Harden?
beard

[Just2McFly]

Prime Manu is underrated. I honestly think he is the top 7 shooting guards of all time.
Like....where are people getting this shit from? Did I watch another Manu?

[Trollsmasher]

fkin fakkit OP:facepalm

[VengefulAngel]

2013 Manu had one of the world plus minuses in NBA finals history, I still go with 2013 Manu over Prime Harden though :P.:lol

[fiddy]

2013 Manu had one of the world plus minuses in NBA finals history, I still go with 2013 Manu over Prime Harden though :P.:lol
Manu was garbage in the finals, too sloppy.

[Smook A.]

Prime Manu is underrated. I honestly think he is the top 7 shooting guards of all time.
You're overrating him now.

Prime Manu was very very good but I don't think he's a top 7 SG of all time. Not even close.

[oarabbus]

2013 Finals Manu or 2012 Finals Harden?


2013 Finals Manu.

But I take 2012 Finals Harden over 2013 Game 7 Finals Manu.

[Milbuck]

You're overrating him now.

Prime Manu was very very good but I don't think he's a top 7 SG of all time. Not even close.
Not even close my ass. "Not even close" to 7 would imply that there's like 15 or more better than him.

Name 15 shooting guards who were better than peak Manu.

[MrC1991]

Manu, easily.

[SCdac]

one of the first times Manu played without Duncan and Parker (November, 2003)

33 points , 12 rebounds , 7 assists , 11/13 FT , 4/7 three pointers... in a Double OT thriller

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8zhDrzorXs


On the Lakers' first possession of the second half, Bryant abandoned any semblance of a set offense and went to work one-on-one against defensive specialist Bruce Bowen.

Dribbling and changing directions rapidly, Bryant freed himself for a 20-foot jumper that dropped through. But while he backpedalled downcourt and waved his finger back and forth in a gesture to the crowd, Bryant's feet got tangled up and he tripped and fell on his backside. He uprighted himself with a backward somersault.

"He [Kobe] played hard, but right now he's not quick enough to guard Ginobili," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "I thought he got better as the game went on."

Would have been awesome to see Ginobili with his "own" team. Personally I think he's a top-15 SG all time, with respect to many of the guards who've played the game. But rankings are circumstantial. He's definitely a top-5 SG of the last 10 years. I'd take prime Manu over current Harden. Manu could play committed D, take charges, and do all the little things that make him such a winner. He was the MVP for his Argentinian teams so it's not beyond him to lead.

[navy]

Well okay top 7 is cutting it close

Jordan
Kobe
Wade
West
Gervin
Clyde
(not in order)

I guess it also depends on what you think of Ray and Reggie.

[Just2McFly]

Well okay top 7 is cutting it close

Jordan
Kobe
Wade
West
Gervin
Clyde
(not in order)

I guess it also depends on what you think of Ray and Reggie.

Obviously Ray is better.

[navy]

2013 Finals Manu or 2012 Finals Harden?

2012 Harden.

2013 Manu was literally throwing away games. 2012 Harden was just your typical scrub. Like a current Sefolosha. But worse.

[Black and White]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

This is one of the most one-sided questions ever

[navy]

Obviously Ray is better.
Maybe. I would take Ray, but i think a team led by Manu would win more games then a team led by Ray. :confusedshrug:

[Threethrows]

I would take current Manu over Harden.

[Cold soul]

Manu by landslide. Harden sucks bad and is manufactured superstar by the refs.

[f0und]

alpha role manu beat team usa to win gold

[Paul George 24]

Obviously Ray is better.
ray ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:roll:

[BasedTom]

Manu. Without a doubt.

even in 2013 he had that one great game in the Finals (though he sucked ass in the rest of them) 2012 Harden played well against the Spurs but was a complete non-factor in the Finals.

[Springsteen]

Is this for real? Gimme Manu all day and tomorrow. Harden won't really blossom until we get a coach that's gonna make him work.

A coach can't make someone who's a black hole on defense into a suddenly positive player on that end.

[Sakkreth]

Wait, op you actually were serious with ur question ?

[Milbuck]

LOL at Rockets fans shamelessly blaming McHale for all of Harden's bullshit.


B-b-b-but if they had a good coach Harden will be a good defender and won't disappear in the playoffs!

[Rubio2Gasol]

Current Manu > Current Harden lmao

[Smook A.]

LOL at Rockets fans shamelessly blaming McHale for all of Harden's bullshit.


B-b-b-but if they had a good coach Harden will be a good defender and won't disappear in the playoffs!
You do know how important a coach is, right?

We're not fully blaming McHale for all of Harden's problems but he definitely deserves SOME of the blame. A good coach would realize their players' weaknesses right away. McHale needs to get in Harden's face and tell him to play defense. If he doesn't then McHale needs to bench him as a punishment. He should also tell Harden to start taking smarter shots.

A good coach DISCIPLINES his players. Harden doesn't have the right attitude and that's partly Kevin McHale's fault. When Harden does something dumb, our coach doesn't yell in his face. Instead he just pats him on the back and tells him to do better. There are times where you need to take a step further and that's was McHale needs to do.

[Akrazotile]

OP seems to think that if Manu doesnt score as many points as Harden does in Hardens role then he isnt as effective overall.

This is the moronic thinking that unfortunately plagues most fans. Luckily it seems that at least so far the people in this thread have some sense about them on this particular issue.

[wordsRweapons]

2013 Finals Manu.

But I take 2012 Finals Harden over 2013 Game 7 Finals Manu.


You mean game 6? bar a few turnovers, manu had a good game 7

18/3/5 on 50% +6

[iznogood]

Prime Manu was a better defender and a great leader as well, won golden medal at the olympics as Argentina's best player and was the MVP of the Euroleague F4.

[Milbuck]

You do know how important a coach is, right?

We're not fully blaming McHale for all of Harden's problems but he definitely deserves SOME of the blame. A good coach would realize their players' weaknesses right away. McHale needs to get in Harden's face and tell him to play defense. If he doesn't then McHale needs to bench him as a punishment. He should also tell Harden to start taking smarter shots.

A good coach DISCIPLINES his players. Harden doesn't have the right attitude and that's partly Kevin McHale's fault. When Harden does something dumb, our coach doesn't yell in his face. Instead he just pats him on the back and tells him to do better. There are times where you need to take a step further and that's was McHale needs to do.
Or, if Harden was actually the star player you guys think he is, he'd sack the **** up and work on his game without needing to be babied by coaches.

Stars don't need to be constantly berated to give 100% effort on the court. Stars don't need defensive advice/teaching handed to them on a silver platter to improve. Stars don't need every single ****ing whistle just to have an efficient game. Stars don't need to be benched to learn how to not be self-obsessed, arrogant turds on the court. If he was a real star, he'd find a way on his own.

Allen Iverson was notorious for having a piss poor attitude and doing shit his own way...but he still had the balls to show up when it mattered, and put in every ounce of effort and heart he had into the game. And this is without even considering the fact that he was a borderline 6 foot tall, 160-170 pound tiny player navigating through mountains just to get a layup night after night after night. The dude's probably been beaten up and bruised and had more nagging injuries in one week than that fat **** Harden's had his whole career. Yet he comes back and produces.

Don't give me this "he needs an elite coach to fix his attitude" shit. Countless players have produced despite bad attitudes and bad habits. All it takes is heart and intelligence. Neither of which James Harden will ever have.

[Springsteen]

Allen Iverson was notorious for having a piss poor attitude and doing shit his own way...but he still had the balls to show up when it mattered, and put in every ounce of effort and heart he had into the game. And this is without even considering the fact that he was a borderline 6 foot tall, 160-170 pound tiny player navigating through mountains just to get a layup night after night after night. The dude's probably been beaten up and bruised and had more nagging injuries in one week than that fat **** Harden's had his whole career. Yet he comes back and produces.


couldn't have said it any better :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Mr Exlax]

A coach can't make someone who's a black hole on defense into a suddenly positive player on that end.

Yes a coach can. It's called benching. If you've ever played organized ball, you've seen a player or two get benched for screwing up or not giving enough effort.

[Black and White]

True star players know their weaknesses and take it upon themselves to make it better,

Did Kobe NEED to work with Hakeem? No, that was a choice, this was AFTER he had won championships,

Did LeBron have to work with him? No, he CHOSE to.

Hardens lack of defense is not on McHale, its on Harden, if you are getting paid max dollars, you need take it as seriously as the other max players do, Harden is a joke.

[Milbuck]

Yes a coach can. It's called benching. If you've ever played organized ball, you've seen a player or two get benched for screwing up or not giving enough effort.
There are also players who have the balls to take responsibility for their mistakes and flaws, and work to improve on them. There are players who don't need to be ripped apart and benched to learn not to be a retard on the court. I guess Harden isn't one of those guys.

[Thunderfan86]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
:lol :lol :lol

[DoodleDa]

The problem is that people don't understand that Harden simply isn't a superstar. Rockets fans who deflect blame to McHale have to realize that if Harden was as good as they claim him to be, McHale wouldn't have to do any of the shit that you want him to do (bench him, discipline him, etc). As Milbuck said, great players get it done without having being told to do so. Harden giving absolutely zero shits about the ideas of defense and ball movement goes far deeper than simply a mediocre coach.

Now, if we consider Harden simply as an all star, which is all he is, then those arguments would be valid since he shouldn't have the expectations of a superstar.

That being said, Manu >>>>>>>> Harden.

[BlackVVaves]

Or, if Harden was actually the star player you guys think he is, he'd sack the **** up and work on his game without needing to be babied by coaches.

Stars don't need to be constantly berated to give 100% effort on the court. Stars don't need defensive advice/teaching handed to them on a silver platter to improve. Stars don't need every single ****ing whistle just to have an efficient game. Stars don't need to be benched to learn how to not be self-obsessed, arrogant turds on the court. If he was a real star, he'd find a way on his own.

Allen Iverson was notorious for having a piss poor attitude and doing shit his own way...but he still had the balls to show up when it mattered, and put in every ounce of effort and heart he had into the game. And this is without even considering the fact that he was a borderline 6 foot tall, 160-170 pound tiny player navigating through mountains just to get a layup night after night after night. The dude's probably been beaten up and bruised and had more nagging injuries in one week than that fat **** Harden's had his whole career. Yet he comes back and produces.

Don't give me this "he needs an elite coach to fix his attitude" shit. Countless players have produced despite bad attitudes and bad habits. All it takes is heart and intelligence. Neither of which James Harden will ever have.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/1875569/daaaaaaaaaamn-o.gif

[robert_shaww]

give me current ginobili without using the left hand.

[Cocaine80s]

Harden easily.


Look for him to have an MVP type season next year

[Xiao Yao You]

Manu

[inclinerator]

i had harden last year and high hopes for him, but after seeing what he did in this year's playoffs and his unwillingness to pass the ball, no d, lack of midrange game makes this an easy choice

-smak

[aboss4real24]

Harden

Manu was never a superstar

[Dresta]

In the playoffs i'd have Manu over Harden right now. But prime Manu... :lol

[casual_fan]

Harden easily.


Look for him to have an MVP type season next year


So he will be in china next season ?

I thougt we would have to wait a few more years for that. But the sooner that flopping hobo leaves the better. :cheers:

[Eric Cartman]

Both played like shit against Miami in the finals with the exception of one game each.

[UK2K]

For being so terrible, Harden sure put up a lot of points during the season.

And a lot of rebounds.
And a lot of assists.

He shot a lot of free throws? So did a lot of people. He took roughly 700 2pt FG and 480 pt FG (Steph Curry took 700 2pt Fg and 600 3pt FG, almost half his shots). When you drive the basket you get fouled. Not sure why thats so hard to understand.

I look forward to seeing him score a lot of points, rebound a lot of shots, and make a lot of assists next season.

[Dresta]

For being so terrible, Harden sure put up a lot of points during the season.

And a lot of rebounds.
And a lot of assists.

He shot a lot of free throws? So did a lot of people. He took roughly 700 2pt FG and 480 pt FG (Steph Curry took 700 2pt Fg and 600 3pt FG, almost half his shots). When you drive the basket you get fouled. Not sure why thats so hard to understand.

I look forward to seeing him score a lot of points, rebound a lot of shots, and make a lot of assists next season.
And how did he do in the playoffs?

[oarabbus]

For being so terrible, Harden sure put up a lot of points during the season.

And a lot of rebounds.
And a lot of assists.

He shot a lot of free throws? So did a lot of people. He took roughly 700 2pt FG and 480 pt FG (Steph Curry took 700 2pt Fg and 600 3pt FG, almost half his shots). When you drive the basket you get fouled. Not sure why thats so hard to understand.

I look forward to seeing him score a lot of points, rebound a lot of shots, and make a lot of assists next regular season.

Fixed it for you bro :cheers:

[hateraid]

For arguments sake what if Harden played in the 90's with the Spurs? Prime Timmy, Parker, and all world coach Pop does wonders for your reputation

[oarabbus]

For arguments sake what if Harden played in the 90's with the Spurs? Prime Timmy, Parker, and all world coach Pop does wonders for your reputation

Harden would get kicked out of the team/traded within 2 seasons, not a Spurs-type player

[SCdac]

For arguments sake what if Harden played in the 90's with the Spurs? Prime Timmy, Parker, and all world coach Pop does wonders for your reputation

First off, Parker and Ginobili didn't play in the 90's.

Secondly, would Harden be willing to not be the leader and be willing to be berated by Pop?

There were reports that Harden was complaining about not getting enough shots in the playoffs in his last season with OKC, and at 23 years old he ultimately wanted max money while he still demanded it. Harden at times seems selfish and is cut from a different cloth than Ginobili, who came into the league as a professional from overseas at 25 years old (older than current Harden). Ginobili is the ultimate team player, he plays defense, and he's devoted to winning over stats and fame.

I get what you're trying to say... but lets be real... Harden left a team with Durant , Westbrook, and Ibaka... he had a chance to be on a winning team with great reputation, but felt he was worth more / wouldn't shine enough in OKC.

[ABfor3]

Harden doesn't play as good of defense cause his coach doesn't got the two balls to bench his ass. And it's far beyond McHales authority, you know it's Morey pulling the strings. Rockets have been playing "Moreyball", they focus on 3 point shots, points in the paint and free throws. They lack the urgency to enforce a midrange game because of Daryl Morey. I'm sure McHale has been wanting to Bench Harden but he's in fear of losing his job. Either way, you're gonna lose your job because if Harden keeps playing like shit on defense, the Rockets won't go anywhere. Morey just doesn't want to look like the idiot for giving a guy a max contract and he can't play a lick of defense. Can't blame McHale for wanting to keep his job and can't blame Harden for doing what he's told.

[MavsSuperFan]

alpha role manu beat team usa to win gold
yup, he beat team usa.

[Milbuck]

And here come the retarded Houston fans, recycling the same old " blame McHale" bullshit. Again.

Shameless "franchise player" and shameless fanbase.

[Fiddlesticks]

Harden because he scores more points...

[Smook A.]

And here come the retarded Houston fans, recycling the same old " blame McHale" bullshit. Again.

Shameless "franchise player" and shameless fanbase.
We're not retarded

I said McHale is ONE of the small reasons why Harden jacks up dumb shots sometimes. If he doesn't stop then why isnt McHale stopping him? He's been a Rocket for 2 years now.

[robert_shaww]

put harden in team argentina in the olympics vs usa (wade, lebron, stoudemire, duncan, odom, anthony, iverson, etc...) and usa wins by 40 points.

[Threethrows]

Harden doesn't play as good of defense cause his coach doesn't got the two balls to bench his ass. And it's far beyond McHales authority, you know it's Morey pulling the strings. Rockets have been playing "Moreyball", they focus on 3 point shots, points in the paint and free throws. They lack the urgency to enforce a midrange game because of Daryl Morey. I'm sure McHale has been wanting to Bench Harden but he's in fear of losing his job. Either way, you're gonna lose your job because if Harden keeps playing like shit on defense, the Rockets won't go anywhere. Morey just doesn't want to look like the idiot for giving a guy a max contract and he can't play a lick of defense. Can't blame McHale for wanting to keep his job and can't blame Harden for doing what he's told.

Is Harden a young child? He shouldn't need a timeout to know that defense is important. What a pathetic excuse that just makes Harden sound even worse :facepalm