Shaq Backpacked Kobe Bryant

[Im so nba'd out]

Scottie Pippen a.ss n.igga
http://s28.postimg.org/6d9p8o05p/proof_1.jpg
http://s21.postimg.org/koa0eibkn/proof_2.jpg
http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7081642_f260.jpg
NEVER CALL THIS MAN THE GOAT AGAIN....

[5 rings fan]

yeahpplgoneactlikeshaqcarriedkobe.jpg

[rhowen4]

kobe definitely top 10000 guard all time

big fan tho

[Magic 32]

Gaining or regaining home court advantage - 2000-2002

Blazers - Game 3 (2000)
Spurs - Game 1 (2001)
76'ers - Game 3 (2001)
Spurs - Game 3 (2002)
Kings - Game 1 (2002)
Kings - Game 7 (2002)

Kobe: 32.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 5.1 apg, 48.2 FG%

[Im so nba'd out]

Gaining or regaining home court advantage - 2000-2002

Blazers - Game 3 (2000)
Spurs - Game 1 (2001)
76'ers - Game 3 (2001)
Spurs - Game 3 (2002)
Kings - Game 1 (2002)
Kings - Game 7 (2002)

Kobe: 32.1 ppg, 7.5 rpg, 5.1 apg, 48.2 FG%
http://s21.postimg.org/koa0eibkn/proof_2.jpg

[Warfan]

Really gon have this argument AGAIN?!!:facepalm :banghead:
I didn't realize the majority of people on ISH are younger than 16 since every week someone makes a thread downplaying how valuable Kobe was to the 3peat. He put up 1st option numbers the 01' and 02' and was a very good sidekick in 2000.

Also annoying when people act surprised or shocked when they see his numbers in 2001, if u didn't watch then id imagine u would have atleast looked up his stats.

[Magic 32]

http://s21.postimg.org/koa0eibkn/proof_2.jpg

http://images.sportsworldnews.com/data/images/full/344/kobe-bryant.jpg?w=600

[T_L_P]

Shaq's PER (measure of statistics) during the three-peat: 29.3
Kobe's PER during the three-peat: 21.3

Gasol's PER during the back-to-back: 23.0
Kobe's PER during the back-to-back: 25.8

[Im so nba'd out]

http://images.sportsworldnews.com/data/images/full/344/kobe-bryant.jpg?w=600
http://s29.postimg.org/rnbz3ry87/more_proof.jpg

[nathanjizzle]

Has shaq ever won a chip without a dominant sg? Has kobe ever won a chip without a dominant center?

[Magic 32]

http://s29.postimg.org/rnbz3ry87/more_proof.jpg

After game 1:

27ppg, 9rpg, 6apg 44% FG%

http://cdn.tss.uproxx.com/TSS/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Share_1385098352.jpg

[T_L_P]

Has shaq ever won a chip without a dominant sg? Has kobe ever won a chip without a dominant center?

In '00, even before the Finals, Kobe was not dominant.

But other than that you are completely right.

[Im so nba'd out]

Has shaq ever won a chip without a dominant sg? Has kobe ever won a chip without a dominant center?
yeah 2000

[Warfan]

http://s29.postimg.org/rnbz3ry87/more_proof.jpg

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2001_WCF.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2001_WCS.html#LAL-SAC

http://www.hypun.com/lollibs/meme_thumb_l/6643383.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rtMHG2O.jpg

now **** off

[IllegalD]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BESnCrgCAAEHKku.jpg

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg252/jorgepadilla23/SKnFQ.png

http://i.imgur.com/rtMHG2O.jpg

[Im so nba'd out]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2001_WCF.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2001_WCS.html#LAL-SAC

now **** off
thats cool all i ask is never call him the goat again.

[LakersFan626]

http://s21.postimg.org/koa0eibkn/proof_2.jpg

The point is?

That's hardly a fair comparison as Kobe wasn't KOBE yet then and NOBODY was going to outplay Shaq that year or even come close to his numbers. How come you didn't use the other two championships, when Kobe was a top 5 player, to prove it?

When they were both top 5, Kobe wasn't being carried. Wade and Bosh are carried by LeBron more than Kobe was by Shaq.

[Im so nba'd out]

The point is?

That's hardly a fair comparison as Kobe wasn't KOBE yet then and NOBODY was going to outplay Shaq that year or even come close to his numbers. How come you didn't use the other two championships, when Kobe was a top 5 player, to prove it?

When they were both top 5, Kobe wasn't being carried. Wade and Bosh are carried by LeBron more than Kobe was by Shaq.
im not here to prop up lebron or to tear down anyone.My only point of this thread was to eliminate kobe from all goat conversations thats all :cheers: .

[Magic 32]

May of 2001 (8 games):

34.1 ppg, 8 rpg, 5.6 rpg, 1.4 spg, 49.5 FG%

[GimmeThat]

16-1

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://www.nba.com/media/kobeshaq_050317_02.jpg

[IllegalD]

im not here to prop up lebron or to tear down anyone.My only point of this thread was to eliminate kobe from all goat conversations thats all :cheers: .

He's not eliminated.

Top 5 All-Time, which is what Kobe is, is GOAT candidate.

[MMM]

Nobody can give me a reasonable response but why do NBA fan care so much about all time rankings compared to other NA sports.

can yall just stop talking about BS rankings and actually talk about the GAME

****ing ******s on this site don't even really appreciate the skill level of these players and what goes into the development from young player to world champion level player and why only a few are able accomplish that feat.

[Warfan]

thats cool all i ask is never call him the goat again.

:biggums: No kobe fan says he's the GOAT. Even the most delusional kobetards don't have him higher than 5, maybe 4 all-time.

[Im so nba'd out]

Nobody can give me a reasonable response but why do NBA fan care so much about all time rankings compared to other NA sports.

can yall just stop talking about BS rankings and actually talk about the GAME

****ing ******s on this site don't even really appreciate the skill level of these players and what goes into the development from young player to world champion level player and why only a few are able accomplish that feat.
bro i appreciate kobe he is a great player one of the best scorers ever.Just never mention his name in a goat conversation thats all i ask :confusedshrug:

[IllegalD]

bro i appreciate kobe he is a great player one of the best scorers ever.Just never mention his name in a goat conversation thats all i ask :confusedshrug:

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kevin-durant--kobe-bryant-is--the-greatest-of-all-time---kobe-and-michael-jordan-are--1-and-1a-213142314.html

[Im so nba'd out]

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/kevin-durant--kobe-bryant-is--the-greatest-of-all-time---kobe-and-michael-jordan-are--1-and-1a-213142314.html
ya you cant trust him i even seen it in the news.
http://larrybrownsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Kevin-Durant-Mr-Unreliable.jpg

[Magic 32]

Just never mention his name in a goat conversation thats all i ask :confusedshrug:


Since when did this forum become a fascist regime?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3347748/high-fidelity-bullshit-o.gif

[Im so nba'd out]

Since when did this forum become a fascist regime?

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/3347748/high-fidelity-bullshit-o.gif
all i did was ask i didnt say perma ban anyone who disagrees :biggums:

[eliteballer]

Kobe severely injured his ankle in during the 2000 finals, he had to sit out 1 or 2 games and wasn't the same for the series, you twit.

Go look at their numbers for Game 7 of the Blazer series.

[Im so nba'd out]

Kobe severely injured his ankle in during the 2000 finals, he had to sit out 1 or 2 games and wasn't the same for the series, you twit.

Go look at their numbers for Game 7 of the Blazer series.
http://s29.postimg.org/rnbz3ry87/more_proof.jpg
just looked.................and was carried again
http://31.media.tumblr.com/834ab51c966e6afe6592b345d249a8d2/tumblr_n2n27cudlu1sbqspto1_400.gif

[T_L_P]

Kobe severely injured his ankle in during the 2000 finals, he had to sit out 1 or 2 games and wasn't the same for the series, you twit.

Go look at their numbers for Game 7 of the Blazer series.

They won the second game without him.

Kobe still played 35 minutes per game in the series and took 90 shots, on .367 shooting.

An ankle injury doesn't explain that. He was chucking bad shots, as he did in '04, when he should have been feeding the big man down low.

[eliteballer]

They won the second game without him.

Kobe still played 35 minutes per game in the series and took 90 shots, on .367 shooting.

An ankle injury doesn't explain that. He was chucking bad shots, as he did in '04, when he should have been feeding the big man down low.

Really, a severe ankle injury doesn't explain not being able to make shots you usually do?

Kobe won Game 4 by taking over in OT when Shaq fouled out. Those Lakers weren't a team with a ton of offensive options who could take an increased load. He played those minutes because had to.

[SexSymbol]

They won the second game without him.

Kobe still played 35 minutes per game in the series and took 90 shots, on .367 shooting.

An ankle injury doesn't explain that. He was chucking bad shots, as he did in '04, when he should have been feeding the big man down low.
Kobe is probably the best feeder of bigman all-time, at least in the conversation.
He wasn't chucking because he just felt like it, defenses played like that, Kobe in the triangle is more of a bail-out shooter when everything else fails.

[Im so nba'd out]

Please 5 star this thread!The blind need to see this they will never look at kobe the same again

[Magic 32]

An ankle injury doesn't explain that. He was chucking bad shots


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ioiilpVlhtI/UuHgvBDL-TI/AAAAAAAABH4/mrDo0MR1OnA/s1600/KOBEFACEPALM.gif

[T_L_P]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ioiilpVlhtI/UuHgvBDL-TI/AAAAAAAABH4/mrDo0MR1OnA/s1600/KOBEFACEPALM.gif

There's never a scenario in which a player shooting nearly 35% is acceptable.

Sure, the shots may not have been falling in because of Kobe's ankle, but he should not have shot them.

[Magic 32]

There's never a scenario in which a player shooting nearly 35% is acceptable.

Sure, the shots may not have been falling in because of Kobe's ankle, but he should not have shot them.

Game 4 was brilliant. Period. Ended the series.

Game 5 was a blowout and he was out of it (4-20)

If you want to criticize him for anything then game 6 is the only fair game to do it with:

8-27 not good. 8-10 shots too many.

21 years old kid and one win away from the championship.

Big deal.

[sportjames23]

http://s29.postimg.org/rnbz3ry87/more_proof.jpg
just looked.................and was carried again
http://31.media.tumblr.com/834ab51c966e6afe6592b345d249a8d2/tumblr_n2n27cudlu1sbqspto1_400.gif


+rep just for the Fabulous Freebirds gif. :bowdown:

[Im so nba'd out]

+rep just for the Fabulous Freebirds gif. :bowdown:
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/82128/michael-hayes-o.gif

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Just another sun 40% shooting series for Kobe. It's pretty much a norm for him.

[DMAVS41]

Has shaq ever won a chip without a dominant sg? Has kobe ever won a chip without a dominant center?

Sure. Kobe wasn't a dominant sg in 00.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Kobe is a chucking rapist
i really dont know how he has any fans:confusedshrug:

[VIntageNOvel]

Man, it seems like Kobe gets more hate than Lebron......


you know you're doing something great when you're not even playing and haters still talk 24/7 bout you

[Jasper]

A shooting guard mentality always needs a Big man scorer , to widen the floor.
Kobe's era people injoyed... I did not care for him, I like to see team ball.

[Mr Feeny]

He's not eliminated.

Top 5 All-Time, which is what Kobe is, is GOAT candidate.Except that he isn't top 5, and the general consensus is that he is at 12-14 all time.

[Mr Feeny]

There's never a scenario in which a player shooting nearly 35% is acceptable.

Sure, the shots may not have been falling in because of Kobe's ankle, but he should not have shot them.This. There's a reason Kobe averages 40% fg in NBA finals. He just has terrible shot selection and there's never an excuse for it. More often than not, the team was good enough to overcome his struggles. In 2004 and 2008, they unfortunately couldn't.

It's tough for any team to play up to their best level when thr top shot taker is bricking all over the place. And on single coverage too! ! Just horrible.

[Ne 1]

Shaq Backpacked Kobe Bryant


Kobe put up 21/5/4, 29/7/6, and 27/6/5 in the playoffs during the 3-peat while playing all-world defense and taking over in 4th quarters when games were close or on the line. He was the Lakers facilitator/playmaker, defensive stopper, 2nd scoring option, and the go to guy in the clutch. He had to set up the offense, advance the ball, read the defense and consistently make big plays at critical times and also usually defend the other teams' best swingman. I'd like to know what more would he have had to have done in your opinion in order to not just be considered a leech who got backpacked by Shaq to 3 rings.

Yeah, Kobe was generally "plan B" throughout the game. However in the 4th quarter, he often became "plan A" and sometimes, "plan AA" if Phil Jackson sat Shaq because of hack-a-Shaq. In the history of the game, how often were guys who were "back packing" another player asked to take over so consistently?


Scottie Pippen a.ss n.igga

Is this supposed to be an insult? You know Scottie Pippen is a HOFer and a 6x champion, right? He was an MVP caliber player, a top 3-5 player (and the best all-around player) and the best SF during his prime and arguably the GOAT perimeter defender.

I know a lot of people seem to think of Scottie as "just Jordan's sidekick" when he was so much more. 6'8" with a 7'2" wingspan, but he pretty much played PG offensively, a great finisher, excellent basketball IQ, deadly in transition, good post up player, capable 3 point shooter, he could rebound as well as some power forwards and he was one of the rare perimeter players who could impact a game defensively like an elite defensive big man. Some say he wasn't a true franchise player because he couldn't score enough, yet I'd take 20-22 ppg from Scottie along with his playmaking, defense, rebounding and leadership over the extra 5 ppg and inferior all around game from many of the flashier perimeter players.

As far as comparing 3-peat Kobe to Pippen? Their value to their respective teams and level of play was similar in 2000, I'd actually say '91-'93 Pippen and '96-'98 Pippen > 2000 Kobe, but Kobe in 2001 and 2002 was better than Pippen ever was though.



http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7081642_f260.jpg

What exactly does posting a silly picture prove? :confusedshrug:

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20080905/Img259394112.jpg



NEVER CALL THIS MAN THE GOAT AGAIN

You're preaching to the choir here. There aren't many fans who consider Kobe to be the GOAT, the vast majority of people have Jordan as the GOAT, if you made this thread because you seen someone on ISH say Kobe is the GOAT, you probably got trolled.

[SexSymbol]

Except that he isn't top 5, and the general consensus is that he is at 12-14 all time.
That's not general consensus.
Your other post is full of shit too, don't let you hate speak.

[T_L_P]

Kobe put up 21/5/4, 29/7/6, and 27/6/5 in the playoffs during the 3-peat while playing all-world defense and taking over in 4th quarters when games were close or on the line. He was the Lakers facilitator/playmaker, defensive stopper, 2nd scoring option, and the go to guy in the clutch. He had to set up the offense, advance the ball, read the defense and consistently make big plays at critical times and also usually defend the other teams' best swingman. I'd like to know what more would he have had to have done in your opinion in order to not just be considered a leech who got backpacked by Shaq to 3 rings.

Yeah, Kobe was generally "plan B" throughout the game. However in the 4th quarter, he often became "plan A" and sometimes, "plan AA" if Phil Jackson sat Shaq because of hack-a-Shaq. In the history of the game, how often were guys who were "back packing" another player asked to take over so consistently?



Is this supposed to be an insult? You know Scottie Pippen is a HOFer and a 6x champion, right? He was an MVP caliber player, a top 3-5 player (and the best all-around player) and the best SF during his prime and arguably the GOAT perimeter defender.

I know a lot of people seem to think of Scottie as "just Jordan's sidekick" when he was so much more. 6'8" with a 7'2" wingspan, but he pretty much played PG offensively, a great finisher, excellent basketball IQ, deadly in transition, good post up player, capable 3 point shooter, he could rebound as well as some power forwards and he was one of the rare perimeter players who could impact a game defensively like an elite defensive big man. Some say he wasn't a true franchise player because he couldn't score enough, yet I'd take 20-22 ppg from Scottie along with his playmaking, defense, rebounding and leadership over the extra 5 ppg and inferior all around game from many of the flashier perimeter players.

As far as comparing 3-peat Kobe to Pippen? Their value to their respective teams and level of play was similar in 2000, I'd actually say '91-'93 Pippen and '96-'98 Pippen > 2000 Kobe, but Kobe in 2001 and 2002 was better than Pippen ever was though.



What exactly does posting a silly picture prove? :confusedshrug:

http://photocdn.sohu.com/20080905/Img259394112.jpg




You're preaching to the choir here. There aren't many fans who consider Kobe to be the GOAT, the vast majority of people have Jordan as the GOAT, if you made this thread because you seen someone on ISH say Kobe is the GOAT, you probably got trolled.

Kobe was a very good defender during the three-peat (not '02). You're seriously overrating his defense. Talking as if he was the best perimeter defender in the league or something. Almost all advanced data shows he was above average on that side of the floor during that period, and enough scorers lit up his team enough.

[ArbitraryWater]

you know you're doing something great when you're not even playing and haters still talk 24/7 bout you

yeah, being greatly overrated

[Ne 1]

Also, if winning championships was that simple as just having Shaq carry you, then he would have done it with Penny in Orlando or in L.A. with Eddie Jones/Nick Van Exel. It wasn't until Kobe developed and became one of the league's premier players did Shaq finally win those elusive rings.

[Brizzly]

There's never a scenario in which a player shooting nearly 35% is acceptable.

Sure, the shots may not have been falling in because of Kobe's ankle, but he should not have shot them.

You are so stupid with no clue whatsoever regarding anything, keep posting in threads concerning Tim Duncan and save us all the pain of having to go through your ****ing posts about players, games and comparisons where all you do is look at the stats. It is more than obvious you didnt watch the finals 2001 and still you are here trying to make arguments as to why Kobe sucked and bla ****ing bla.

[T_L_P]

You are so stupid with no clue whatsoever regarding anything, keep posting in threads concerning Tim Duncan and save us all the pain of having to go through your ****ing posts about players, games and comparisons where all you do is look at the stats. It is more than obvious you didnt watch the finals 2001 and still you are here trying to make arguments as to why Kobe sucked and bla ****ing bla.

I honestly don't think I've made a single Tim Duncan thread. I did watch the '01 Finals, and I've said he was literally just behind Shaq as the best player in the league that year. I also watched '02, and I saw a huge drop off not only in Kobe's production, not only his impact on the floor, but mainly his defense. It was the beginning of the end of Kobe covering the basics on defense, and he starting gambling too much. Even Phil Jackson said as much.

It's funny though, because your response does nothing to tell me why Kobe was a great, no, world class defender in '02. Is that because you didn't watch him?

Also, Kobe is one of the ten or so greatest players ever, and the best number two ever during the three-peat. Kobe has rarely sucked.

[Ne 1]

Kobe was a very good defender during the three-peat (not '02). You're seriously overrating his defense. Talking as if he was the best perimeter defender in the league or something. Almost all advanced data shows he was above average on that side of the floor during that period, and enough scorers lit up his team enough.

You should watch some games from back then instead of just coming to conclusions from looking at advanced metrics. (If you're using DWS, which I think is based on DRTG? That's a terrible, terrible stat for measuring individual defenders) Kobe was an AWESOME team defender at that point of his career. He was always flying around for steals and his rotations were excellent and he was also great at providing weak-side help and playing the passing lanes/angles.

His peak defensive season might be 2000 (Top 5 in DPOY voting and All-Defensive 1st team honors) He had the game-saving block on Sabonis at the end of game 3 to seal the win vs Blazers of the '00 WCF and his defense on Marc Jackson in the Finals was impressive throughout the series, it was reminiscent of Scottie Pippen's defense on Jackson in the '98 Conference Finals just 2 years ago.

This is from after Game 1:

Quote:
Kobe's defense -- Kobe Bryant's ball pressure on Pacers point guard Mark Jackson was tremendous. It didn't cause turnovers, but it kept Indiana from getting into its half court offense quickly, and thus disrupted the timing. Kobe also did a good job chasing Miller around screens and denying him the ball when assigned to him.


Quote:
Bryant's ball pressure on Pacers guard Mark Jackson also helped the cause, slowing down the Indiana offense just enough to disrupt Miller's timing as he flew off screens. "It seemed like Reggie never got in any rythym," Pacers center Sam Perkins admitted.

His help defense was just phenomenal back then, as was his man/on the ball defense. His only weakness was inability to prevent bigger guards/forwards from posting him up which is why he bulked up in 2001. Guys like Bonzi Wells were the only ones who gave him problems. Was he the best perimiter defender in the league during the 3-peat? No, but he was amongst the best.

[Cold soul]

Except that he isn't top 5, and the general consensus is that he is at 12-14 all time.

Please stop trolling moron.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm convinced Ne 1 is Nas the way he hands out that ether.

[Im so nba'd out]

Ne 1 i admit that shaq wouldnt have won his 3 rings without kobe what more do you want me to say:confusedshrug: .I have called kobe a great player several times he just should never be mentioned in the goat conversation because he was backpacked in a finals.

[imdaman99]

Lakers were too good to be beaten by an East team till 2004 :kobe:

The real finals were in the West... were Kobe rightfully dominated :kobe:

[jstern]

Has shaq ever won a chip without a dominant sg? Has kobe ever won a chip without a dominant center?

I honestly hate when people use this argument. "Has X player ever won a championship with out Y player," as if X players has been in the league for thousands of years and has had the opportunity to play in the same and different situations hundreds of time. With hundreds of opportunities of playing in the different situation.

Why do so many "Laker fans" hate Shaq?

[Mr Feeny]

That's not general consensus.
Your other post is full of shit too, don't let you hate speak.

Except it is. Poor baby don't throw your toys out of the pram now:oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Shaq carried Kobe, but Kobe had the same WS/48 in 01 and led the Playoffs in total WS....lol.

could somebody also compare Kobe's and Shaq's 4th quarter averages in the POs from 00-02? thank you.

[IllegalD]

Kobe won 2 as the man without Shaq. But Shaq never won as the man without Kobe. His only other ring came as a sidekick to Wade.

For those who say Kobe wasn't a dominant SG in 2000.

Game 7 vs Blazers WCFs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html

In the most important game of the season Shaq gets held in check and 21 year old Kobe is the best player in the game on either team in a game full of future hall of famers, veteran all-stars, etc. Filling up the stat-sheet in the do-or-die game of the season and also making the biggest play of the game (Alley to Shaq)

No Kobe, no 2000 title. Just deal with it, haters. :no:

[IllegalD]

I honestly hate when people use this argument. "Has X player ever won a championship with out Y player," as if X players has been in the league for thousands of years and has had the opportunity to play in the same and different situations hundreds of time. With hundreds of opportunities of playing in the different situation.

Why do so many "Laker fans" hate Shaq?

Isn't that the exact same thing people do when they say "How many rings has Kobe won without Shaq/Gasol?" :confusedshrug:

[sammichoffate]

OP is fgt /thread

[SpecialQue]

Exclusive image of OP's brain:


















































http://test.terezowens.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Screen-Shot-2011-09-25-at-7.35.05-AM.png

[Deuce Bigalow]

Except that he isn't top 5, and the general consensus is that he is at 12-14 all time.
Sources?

[Hey Yo]

Shaq carried Kobe, but Kobe had the same WS/48 in 01 and led the Playoffs in total WS....lol.

could somebody also compare Kobe's and Shaq's 4th quarter averages in the POs from 00-02? thank you.
Kobe ZERO RINGS w/o Fisher.

[IllegalD]

Kobe ZERO RINGS w/o Fisher.

How many did Fisher win without Kobe...? :confusedshrug:

Couldn't take his act to multiple teams like Kerr and Horry.

[Ne 1]

Kobe won 2 as the man without Shaq. But Shaq never won as the man without Kobe. His only other ring came as a sidekick to Wade.

For those who say Kobe wasn't a dominant SG in 2000.

Game 7 vs Blazers WCFs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html

In the most important game of the season Shaq gets held in check and 21 year old Kobe is the best player in the game on either team in a game full of future hall of famers, veteran all-stars, etc. Filling up the stat-sheet in the do-or-die game of the season and also making the biggest play of the game (Alley to Shaq)

No Kobe, no 2000 title. Just deal with it, haters. :no:
Eh, I guess it would depend on what you consider to be dominant. IMO he wasn't truly dominant until 2001. But he was still a top 10 player and the best SG in the league. As you mentioned, like that Game 7 vs Portland, Kobe stepped up in some huge moments and that was his peak defensive year which is part of the reason I think he isn't as replaceable as people think, even though statistically he wasn't a superstar yet. Also, Shaq, Horry and Shaw deserve some credit for stepping up in the 4th quarter in Game 7 too, it definitely wasn't all just Kobe.

[Im so nba'd out]

Kobe won 2 as the man without Shaq. But Shaq never won as the man without Kobe. His only other ring came as a sidekick to Wade.

For those who say Kobe wasn't a dominant SG in 2000.

Game 7 vs Blazers WCFs:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200006040LAL.html

In the most important game of the season Shaq gets held in check and 21 year old Kobe is the best player in the game on either team in a game full of future hall of famers, veteran all-stars, etc. Filling up the stat-sheet in the do-or-die game of the season and also making the biggest play of the game (Alley to Shaq)

No Kobe, no 2000 title. Just deal with it, haters. :no:
no 1 is claiming shaq would of won his ring without kobe.Kobe averaged 15 points in a final while his teammate avg 40.....he got backpacked and should never be mentioned in a goat conversation.idk why people getting so mad i respect that he is a great player :cheers: .

[Im so nba'd out]

OP is fgt /thread

Exclusive image of OP's brain:


insightful post http://i.imgur.com/aSGGIwE.gif

[Ne 1]

no 1 is claiming shaq would of won his ring without kobe.Kobe averaged 15 points in a final while his teammate avg 40.....he got backpacked and should never be mentioned in a goat conversation.idk why people getting so mad i respect that he is a great player :cheers: .
2000 his averages are actually 19/6/4/ (this is excluding the game where Jalen Rose intentionally injured him early in the game and Kobe didn't return)

He did have a sub-par series in general, but a lot of that can attributed to the injury in Game 2. He missed all of Game 3, and was hobbled and limping around for games 4, 5, and 6. He returned after getting injured in Game 4 and single handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th quarter, he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime. So considering he came up with a legendary clutch performance in game 4 and also put up 26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 turn over playing excellent defense in the clinching game, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. His defense on Mark Jackson was impressive throughout the series, reminiscent of Pippen's defense on Jackson in the 1998 conference finals. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten how big Kobe came through in the clutch in the other playoff rounds either, particularly Game 7 vs Portland, and his production prior to the Finals was right there with his regular season.

[PickernRoller]

Scottie Pippen a.ss n.igga
http://s28.postimg.org/6d9p8o05p/proof_1.jpg
http://s21.postimg.org/koa0eibkn/proof_2.jpg
http://s1.hubimg.com/u/7081642_f260.jpg
NEVER CALL THIS MAN THE GOAT AGAIN....

Kobe's not the GOAT, Jordan is. Kobe> Lebron and Kobe>Ducan is correct however.

[Im so nba'd out]

2000 his averages are actually 19/6/4/ (this is excluding the game where Jalen Rose intentionally injured him early in the game and Kobe didn't return)

He did have a sub-par series in general, but a lot of that can attributed to the injury in Game 2. He missed all of Game 3, and was hobbled and limping around for games 4, 5, and 6. He returned after getting injured in Game 4 and single handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th quarter, he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime. So considering he came up with a legendary clutch performance in game 4 and also put up 26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 turn over playing excellent defense in the clinching game, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. His defense on Mark Jackson was impressive throughout the series, reminiscent of Pippen's defense on Jackson in the 1998 conference finals. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten how big Kobe came through in the clutch in the other playoff rounds either, particularly Game 7 vs Portland, and his production prior to the Finals was right there with his regular season.
he averaged 15 ppg and his teammate averaged 40 ppg why cant you just admit he got carried during the 2000 finals is it that hard to admit?:biggums:
1 game does not a finals make

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe's not the GOAT, Jordan is. Kobe> Lebron and Kobe>Ducan is correct however.
Except that Lebron> Kobe
and Duncan > Kobe.

If they meet in the finals then one of them could pull even further from Kobe as well:oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

2000 his averages are actually 19/6/4/ (this is excluding the game where Jalen Rose intentionally injured him early in the game and Kobe didn't return)

He did have a sub-par series in general, but a lot of that can attributed to the injury in Game 2. He missed all of Game 3, and was hobbled and limping around for games 4, 5, and 6. He returned after getting injured in Game 4 and single handedly carried the team when Shaq fouled out in the 4th quarter, he hit 4 huge free throws and lit the Pacers up in overtime. So considering he came up with a legendary clutch performance in game 4 and also put up 26/10/4/2/1 with only 1 turn over playing excellent defense in the clinching game, it's not a big deal in terms of his legacy. His defense on Mark Jackson was impressive throughout the series, reminiscent of Pippen's defense on Jackson in the 1998 conference finals. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten how big Kobe came through in the clutch in the other playoff rounds either, particularly Game 7 vs Portland, and his production prior to the Finals was right there with his regular season.
They each played 47:00. Before Shaq fouled out he had already destroyed Smits for 36pts and 21 rebounds.

The clinching game he didn't even shoot 30% going 8-27. That's not what you want your starting shooting guard to do.

[Ne 1]

he averaged 15 ppg and his teammate averaged 40 ppg why cant you just admit he got carried during the 2000 finals is it that hard to admit?:biggums:
1 game does not a finals make
Yeah, and how about his numbers for the entire playoffs? You do have to get to the finals before you can win them, you know......

And why are you comparing Kobe's numbers to Shaq's? What does that have to do with Kobe's production/value to the team?

[Artillery]

Shaq's PER (measure of statistics) during the three-peat: 29.3
Kobe's PER during the three-peat: 21.3

Gasol's PER during the back-to-back: 23.0
Kobe's PER during the back-to-back: 25.8

Pretty much tells us that Kobe/Gasol were a 1A/1B combo. Shaq/Kobe was a pretty obvious Batman/Robin duo with Kirby playing the sidekick role.

lol at SidekickBe winning the majority of his championships as the 2nd option

[Artillery]

It should also be noted that 2000 RAPM revealed that Kobe was a pretty awful defender that year. So basically, he brought no value defensively and his offense was pretty damn horrific. Amazing that Shaq carried that 2000 team as the best offensive AND defensive player on the squad.

[red1]

backpackBe
knapsackBe

[Hey Yo]

Yeah, and how about his numbers for the entire playoffs? You do have to get to the finals before you can win them, you know......

And why are you comparing Kobe's numbers to Shaq's? What does that have to do with Kobe's production/value to the team?
Players aren't really remembered on how they perform in the playoffs. Nobody cares what LeBron did in the 2011 playoffs, they just point to his mediocre Finals production.

Jerry West is more remembered for losing 8 of the 9 Finals he played then what he did before those Finals.

[red1]

rapistbe

[sd3035]

Toby got Shaqpacked to 3 rings

[Ne 1]

It's just funny how Kobe haters want to cherry pick one series from Kobe's worst year during the 3peat when he was injured. What about 2001? Drops 35 ppg on Sacramento and 33 ppg on San Antonio and has a good all around series vs Philly(25/8/6) and didn't he average something like 26/5/5 vs New Jersey in the 2002 finals? Hell, IMO, Kobe was the 2nd best player in the entire 2001 playoffs behind Shaq.

[Keno]

Shaq's PER (measure of statistics) during the three-peat: 29.3
Kobe's PER during the three-peat: 21.3

Gasol's PER during the back-to-back: 23.0
Kobe's PER during the back-to-back: 25.8
:oldlol:

and lmao at magic 32 cherry picking the **** out of random games. after game 1 "blah blah blah", games 2-4 "blah blah blah", **** outta here.

[Ne 1]

Shaq's PER (measure of statistics) during the three-peat: 29.3
Kobe's PER during the three-peat: 21.3

Gasol's PER during the back-to-back: 23.0
Kobe's PER during the back-to-back: 25.8
PER is subjective and a flawed stat. Hollinger gave the most value to what he felt was most important. Essentially anyone could make a similar stat to PER crediting one category more than another, and thus the list would change.

It isn't anymore viable then if anyone on this site were to make a formula up with their personal beliefs of how stats should be valued.

[Im so nba'd out]

stop calling me a kobe hater i dont hate kobe.Why do you bring up other series all i said was kobe got carried in the 2000 finals.I didnt say kobe got backpacked for 3 years or backpacked all of 2000.In the 2000 finals kobe averaged around 15 points and shaq averaged around 40 points.He got backpacked in the 2000 finals and should never be in the goat conversation.

[IllegalD]

stop calling me a kobe hater i dont hate kobe.Why do you bring up other series all i said was kobe got carried in the 2000 finals.I didnt say kobe got backpacked for 3 years or backpacked all of 2000.In the 2000 finals kobe averaged around 15 points and shaq averaged around 40 points.He got backpacked in the 2000 finals and should never be in the goat conversation.

Are you sexually attracted to Kobe? :confusedshrug:

[Im so nba'd out]

Are you sexually attracted to Kobe's wife? :confusedshrug:
yeah but what does that have to do with anything?

[IllegalD]

yeah but what does that have to do with anything?

Everything...:lol

[Ne 1]

stop calling me a kobe hater i dont hate kobe.Why do you bring up other series all i said was kobe got carried in the 2000 finals. I didnt say kobe got backpacked for 3 years or backpacked all of 2000.In the 2000 finals kobe averaged around 15 points and shaq averaged around 40 points.He got backpacked in the 2000 finals and should never be in the goat conversation.
How is the fact that Shaq at his peak put up 38 ppg while Kobe at 21 years old, still 3 years away from reaching his prime, playing on a bum ankle, limping around averaging 19 ppg a negative reflection on Kobe as a player? If anything, all that shows is that prime/peak Shaq was just unstoppable. As I already said, you're just preaching to the choir here, very few fans consider Kobe to be the GOAT anyway and that has nothing to do with the fact that Shaq averaged 38 ppg in the 2000 Finals... And saying Kobe isn't the GOAT isn't really saying anything, it's just ignoring who he is because of who he isn't. I'm not even really sure what you were trying to prove with this thread, probably just a weak troll attempt trying to diminish Kobe.

[Straight_Ballin]

What do Kobe and Shaq have in common?

They both let a 165# 6'1 guy get the MVP.

:lol :lol :lol :lol

[Im so nba'd out]

How is the fact that Shaq at his peak put up 38 ppg while Kobe at 21 years old, still 3 years away from reaching his prime, playing on a bum ankle, limping around averaging 19 ppg a negative reflection on Kobe as a player? If anything, all that shows is that prime/peak Shaq was just unstoppable. As I already said, you're just preaching to the choir here, very few fans consider Kobe to be the GOAT anyway and that has nothing to do with the fact that Shaq averaged 38 ppg in the 2000 Finals... And saying Kobe isn't the GOAT isn't really saying anything, it's just ignoring who he is because of who he isn't. I'm not even really sure what you were trying to prove with this thread, probably just a weak troll attempt trying to diminish Kobe.
lol at making up his ppg real cute:rolleyes:
This is not a troll thread....if i wanted to troll i would make a thread about lebron he has more fans on here i was just making a point to never discuss kobe in a goat conversation.Just the fact that im not trying to prop up another play should show that i have no agenda...........

[ImKobe]

Kobe went to 3 straight Finals with Shaq & won 3 out of 4
Kobe went to 3 straight Finals without a HOF teammate and won 2 out of 3
Shaq only went to 1 Finals and won 1 without Kobe while being a sidekick to a player less greater than Kobe

then he joined Nash, Lebron, Celtics Big 3 and failed getting back to the Finals while being a sidekick/role player to other HOFers.

And when Shaq & Wade won a ring in 06, they got swept in the 1st round as defending champs.

[Anaximandro1]

Kobe's first eleven years in the league are forgettable ...


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UbRN-EWpznw/U4B121qhTLI/AAAAAAAAC4A/dSmBx_vNHPo/s1600/20.jpg


A combination of circumstances allowed Kobe to surpass Pippen in greatness ... Pau Gasol and the NBA rule changes saved Kobe's career.

[pastis]

In '00, even before the Finals, Kobe was not dominant.

But other than that you are completely right.

love how your hating on kobe, but on the same time loving duncan = paradoxum = both overrated.: Applaus: : Applaus:

[T_L_P]

love how your hating on kobe, but on the same time loving duncan = paradoxum = both overrated.: Applaus: : Applaus:

Was Kobe dominant in '00? Thank you. Now shut the **** up.

[NASH = BEST]

It's stupid to diminish Kobe's role during the Lakers 3-Peat based on Shaq's Finals numbers and FMVP's.

The East was a joke back then, actually still is sans Heat. It didn't really matter who the Lakers were facing in the Finals, there was no way they were going to lose to the JV east team. Shaq's numbers were bloated due in part to this and the shitty centers that he faced during those Finals.

Everyone knew back then that the WCF was the true championship, there was just no need to play the finals really. Both Kobe and Shaq were evenly important to one-another in the WCF 3-Peat. Some argue that Kobe was more impressive than Shaq was during the 01 and 02 playoffs. If there was a "Playoff MVP" like in Hockey, chances are Kobe wins 2 of the 3 for the Lakers during the 3-Peat.

Anyways, I still hate how nonchalant the Lakers were after they won their 2nd and 3rd championships. Ungrateful bastards!

[Eye Test]

Op is a known pos

[Ne 1]

Everyone knew back then that the WCF was the true championship, there was just no need to play the finals really. Both Kobe and Shaq were evenly important to one-another in the WCF 3-Peat. Some argue that Kobe was more impressive than Shaq was during the 01 and 02 playoffs. If there was a "Playoff MVP" like in Hockey, chances are Kobe wins 2 of the 3 for the Lakers during the 3-peat
Well, if there was an MVP for each series in '01 and '02 this is how it would go down...

'01:
vs. Blazers - Either, hard to pick.
vs. Kings - Could go with either, Shaq dominated first two games and Kobe the last two. Shaq is better if you combine the stats I think so you could give him the edge.
vs. Spurs - Kobe, but Shaq played well too.
vs. Sixers - Shaq, Kobe had a good all-around series though

'02:
vs. Blazers - Shaq
vs. Spurs - Kobe (Shaq was injured in this series iirc which was the reason for his low offensive output, Lakers would have lost this series if it weren't for Kobe's fourth quarter play in the last 3 games)
vs. Kings - I'll say Shaq but after watching the series it was way closer than the stats say (Kobe was just as important as Shaq in the wins, but Shaq played better than him in the losses and Kobe had some horrific shooting nights in those games).
vs. Nets - Shaq, but Kobe played well and had perhaps the best Finals performance not be awarded MVP in a winning effort.

'00 was all Shaq though Kobe stepped up in huge moments which is part of the reason I think he isn't as replaceable as people think, even though statistically he wasn't truly elite yet.

[Straight_Ballin]

2000 Shaq: Ok yung pup, time to come outa my pouch and put in some work. Tired of carrying yo' ass!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-8x6NqcLB-64/TnnQm_x3wgI/AAAAAAAABO0/oqJS0VtIAi8/s1600/Kangaroo-High-Resolution-wallpapers.stillmaza.com-3.jpg

[NASH = BEST]

Well, if there was an MVP for each series in '01 and '02 this is how it would go down...

'01:
vs. Blazers - Either, hard to pick.
vs. Kings - Could go with either, Shaq dominated first two games and Kobe the last two. Shaq is better if you combine the stats I think so you could give him the edge.
vs. Spurs - Kobe, but Shaq played well too.
vs. Sixers - Shaq, Kobe had a good all-around series though

'02:
vs. Blazers - Shaq
vs. Spurs - Kobe (Shaq was injured in this series iirc which was the reason for his low offensive output, Lakers would have lost this series if it weren't for Kobe's fourth quarter play in the last 3 games)
vs. Kings - I'll say Shaq but after watching the series it was way closer than the stats say (Kobe was just as important as Shaq in the wins, but Shaq played better than him in the losses and Kobe had some horrific shooting nights in those games).
vs. Nets - Shaq, but Kobe played well and had perhaps the best Finals performance not be awarded MVP in a winning effort.

'00 was all Shaq though Kobe stepped up in huge moments which is part of the reason I think he isn't as replaceable as people think, even though statistically he wasn't truly elite yet.

Your post really goes to show how important both these guys were to one-another during that 3-peat. Shaq probably does edge out Kobe in most of those series. However, Shaq was most dominant with the inferior opponent, and Kobe seemed to step it up most against the more difficult opponent. I think that's why some argue that Kobe was most impressive in 01' & 02'.

It's just crazy how good these guys were together. Losing only 3 times in the Finals during their 3-peat :applause:

I'm glad these guys didn't get along with one-another cause they could have one more if they had.

[gts]

Your post really goes to show how important both these guys were to one-another during that 3-peat. Shaq probably does edge out Kobe in most of those series. However, Shaq was most dominant with the inferior opponent, and Kobe seemed to step it up most against the more difficult opponent. I think that's why some argue that Kobe was most impressive in 01' & 02'.

It's just crazy how good these guys were together. Losing only 3 times in the Finals during their 3-peat :applause:

I'm glad these guys didn't get along with one-another cause they could have one more if they had.

the problem is you have a large portion of folks acting like they actually watched those games or if they did they were barely old enough to realize what they were watching

People who actually watched the games know what happened and know what role both guys had in the Lakers success's during those years...

take away either one of those guys those championships don't happen..

haters are just going to have to get used to the fact that Kobe is a elite level player, easily in the top 10 if not top 5 and all their nonsense won't change that fact...

[Im so nba'd out]

the problem is you have a large portion of folks acting like they actually watched those games or if they did they were barely old enough to realize what they were watching

People who actually watched the games know what happened and know what role both guys had in the Lakers success's during those years...

take away either one of those guys those championships don't happen..

haters are just going to have to get used to the fact that Kobe is a elite level player, easily in the top 10 if not top 5 and all their nonsense won't change that fact...
i dont disagree with any of that he is a top 10 player i take my hat off too him for how good he was.Just please dont mention him in the goat conversation thats all i ask and no 1 rate him over jordan...... ever.I dont think thats asking for alot