How many players in NBA history have as much impact on the game as LeBron?

[atljonesbro]

I'm at a loss trying to think of names. He does everything so well.

[Clyde]

tons, mostly ones you've probably never watched.

[kennethgriffin]

whats lebrons impact without 3 hall of fame team mates

[NumberSix]

Not any.

[livinglegend]

none

[DaOldLion]

None. These playoffs have moved Lebron into the top 5 all time.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I would say Shaq considering how much he controls the paint on both ends. LeBron controls multiple aspects of the game, but none as strong as Shaq controls the paint. Jordan controlled a lot as well. When LeBron is on, I'd say he's higher impact than MJ, but overall their close. MJ is still a better overall player just due to shooting ability and career accomplishments but that could change.

[NumberSix]

whats lebrons impact without 4 hall of fame team mates
A 66 win team winning 19 games their first season without him is his impact.

[livinglegend]

whats lebrons impact without 3 hall of fame team mates

the same as with 3 hall of fame teammates


next

[LeBron 06]

whats lebrons impact without 3 hall of fame team mates



66 wins and 61 wins with scrubs in Cleveland

[J Shuttlesworth]

whats lebrons impact without 3 hall of fame team mates
Taking a team (who was the worst team in the league w/o Bron) to the finals

[tmacattack33]

Peak Shaq wasn't great at every part of the game, but he was so good at scoring in the post and rebounding that just those two parts of his game put him at a level slightly above current Lebron.

[kennethgriffin]

well the all time rank is

#1 jordan/kareem
#3 russell
#4 Magic
#5 Wilt
#6 Kobe/Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem
#11 Oscar/Lebron


so i guess 10-11 guys

[NumberSix]

well the all time rank is

#1 jordan/kareem
#3 russell
#4 Magic
#5 Wilt
#6 Kobe/Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem
#11 Oscar/Lebron


so i guess 10-11 guys
top 4

[Clyde]

Peak Shaq wasn't great at every part of the game, but he was so good at scoring in the post and rebounding that just those two parts of his game put him at a level slightly above current Lebron.

dude passing.

Incredible passer out of the post.

Shaq was awesome.

[tmacattack33]

well the all time rank is

#1 jordan/kareem
#3 russell
#4 Magic
#5 Wilt
#6 Kobe/Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem
#11 Oscar/Lebron


so i guess 10-11 guys

:roll:

[Keno]

on both ends of the floor, probably none.

[fpliii]

well the all time rank is

#1 jordan/kareem
#3 russell
#4 Magic
#5 Wilt
#6 Kobe/Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem
#11 Oscar/Lebron


so i guess 10-11 guys
Those are likely the best 12 players ever, but I'm not sure about that order. I don't know if there is a legitimate order TBH. They're all just great players.

[leMVP]

Of perimeter players?

Maybe MJ, and Bird also.

No other name i can bring up to this.

He's the closest thing to dominant player on both ends of the floor you will have not as Center.

[Keno]

well the all time rank is

#1 jordan/kareem
#3 russell
#4 Magic
#5 Wilt
#6 Kobe/Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem
#11 Oscar/Lebron


so i guess 10-11 guys

so he's jumping from 11 to #4 after this year? damn, what a leap. and how is bird ahead of all time when lebron is the greatest sf of all time?

[Straight_Ballin]

tons, mostly ones you've probably never watched.

and there you have it.

Didn't bother reading anything else beyond this point.

/thread

[kennethgriffin]

top 4


if players were judged on mvps moses malone would be top 5 instead of top 15-20 and steve nash would be top 10 instead of top 40-50


lebron is in no position to be ahead of guys like shaq/duncan.. as especially kobe or bird yet

hes got an argument to be tied with hakeem at best... but i have him next to oscar or above at #11

[atljonesbro]

and there you have it.

Didn't bother reading anything else beyond this point.

/thread
Lol. Sorry you can't let go of your childhood. Must suck not being able to appreciate greatness because you're bitter someone may surpass your childhood heroes.

[IllegalD]

Of perimeter players?

Maybe MJ, and Bird also.

No other name i can bring up to this.

He's the closest thing to dominant player on both ends of the floor you will have not as Center.

Bird isn't an elite defensive player... :facepalm

[kennethgriffin]

so he's jumping from 11 to #4 after this year? damn, what a leap. and how is bird ahead of all time when lebron is the greatest sf of all time?


because larry bird is the greatest small forward of all time and only on some message boards is he ranked as low as 6-7 range ... hes even more massively worshiped by the general public. most people in the world have him top 3 behind only jordan and magic

goodluck with climbing that obstacle.. kobes just barely there or ahead by a hair with 2 more titles and a ton more individual records/totals/all nba teams

[Jacks3]

15-20.

[NumberSix]

if players were judged on mvps moses malone would be top 5 instead of top 15-20 and steve nash would be top 10 instead of top 40-50


lebron is in no position to be ahead of guys like shaq/duncan.. as especially kobe or bird yet

hes got an argument to be tied with hakeem at best... but i have him next to oscar or above at #11
Wilt
Jordan
Shaq
LeBron

Tied top 4

[Keno]

because larry bird is the greatest small forward of all time and only on some message boards is he ranked as low as 6-7 range ... hes even more massively worshiped by the general public. most people in the world have him top 3 behind only jordan and magic

goodluck with climbing that obstacle.. kobes just barely there or ahead by a hair with 2 more titles and a ton more individual records/totals/all nba teams

so because he's worshiped worldwide, that makes him a better basketball player that has more accolades than lebron?

and we all know, barring any major injury, lebron will shit on all of kobe's shitty longevity achievements. not even sure why you are comparing the two. lebron's on mount rushmore if he wins the title this year, deal with it.

[Im so nba'd out]

well the all time rank is

#1 jordan/kareem
#3 russell
#4 Magic
#5 Wilt
#6 Kobe/Bird
#8 Shaq
#9 Duncan
#10 Hakeem
#11 Oscar/Lebron


so i guess 10-11 guys
http://i.imgur.com/2it8K.jpg

[sportjames23]

I'm at a loss trying to think of names. He does everything so well.


Only because you started watching the NBA in 2012.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Peak Shaq wasn't great at every part of the game, but he was so good at scoring in the post and rebounding that just those two parts of his game put him at a level slightly above current Lebron.
He wasn't great at EVERY aspect of the game... but the aspects he had down, he was GREAT at

[Marchesk]

So Oscar Robertson didn't have a similar impact?

[TheMan]

on both ends of the floor, probably none.
Jordan won MVP, DPOY and the scoring title, all in the same season

[walks out of thread to let Bran stans continue to ignorantly claim "no one".]

[Rocketswin2013]

Kareem,Wilt, Jordan, Shaq......


And then it gets interesting...........
Oscar, Jerry, Magic, Bird? I think he has more impact than those guys but it's arguable..

But **** man, if CP3 didn't blow out his MCL.....:cry:

That's one of the most underrated career ruiners, if not the most.


CP3 had a peak better than Magic people...He dropped a 30 PER AT AGE 23 on 23-5-12 and 50-38-85 shooting and led his team, a PLAYOFF team, in defensive winshares. :biggums: That's flatout unheard of for a PG...

[zoom17]

Plenty he is in elite company:applause:

[VIntageNOvel]

its hard to judge his impact on a stacked team,
so lets take a look at his pre-heat career

wow he took his team to a final before,

he got as much impact as dwight :applause: :bowdown:

[TheMan]

Plenty he is in elite company:applause:
I agree with this

[Straight_Ballin]

Lol. Sorry you can't let go of your childhood. Must suck not being able to appreciate greatness because you're bitter someone may surpass your childhood heroes.

Huh? We would love nothing better that to witness greatness HERE AND NOW!

That would be SO MUCH BETTER than having to reflect on what has already happened.

But the fact of the matter is that we are NOT seeing greatness here and now. We are seeing colluding floppers with beta mindsets.

I'm sorry you are so disillusioned into thining that the here and now is great because you only have the "here and now" as your only reference point and have never witnessed true greatness first hand like I and many other knowledgeable posters on here have.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

So Oscar Robertson didn't have a similar impact?
Oscar Robertson called LeBron the GOAt before LEBron won any titles numbnuts

[Marchesk]

Kareem had 5 seasons in a row where he averaged:

30.7/15.4/4.4 with 1 spg and 3.3 bpg on 55%

[Marchesk]

Oscar Robertson called LeBron the GOAt before LEBron won any titles numbnuts

Oscar saying something has what to do with Oscar's impact on the game in comparison to Lebron?

[Straight_Ballin]

Oscar Robertson called LeBron the GOAt before LEBron won any titles numbnuts

Must have been alzheimer's disease talking.

[Cold soul]

10 or so.

[oh the horror]

Lol. Sorry you can't let go of your childhood. Must suck not being able to appreciate greatness because you're bitter someone may surpass your childhood heroes.



The OP asked in the NBA's history if any have. And it was stated that yes. There have been a lot.


Just because most of you little ladies here have no f*king perception of the history of the league and it's players that have come before Lebron doesn't make people "bitter".

[Rose'sACL]

Jordan
hakeem
Kareem
Shaq
are the only ones i can think of right now.
never watched oscar and wilt on tape so i have no idea about them.

[Mure]

Jordan
Shaq
KAJ

That's it.

[T_L_P]

When he's on there are very few ahead of him. When he's off, or when the opponents are really smart, he can be an outright liability and shit player.

We do need to balance the two. Shaq or Duncan never did anything nearly as terrible as '07 or '11, and I'd argue their '00 and '03 runs were better than anything LeBron did either.

[K Xerxes]

Peak for peak, only players I've seen with as much (or more impact) are Jordan, Shaq and Hakeem. From what else I've seen, probably KAJ and Wilt too. Whatever you think, he is clearly in some elite company.

[T_L_P]

Peak for peak, only players I've seen with as much (or more impact) are Jordan, Shaq and Hakeem. From what else I've seen, probably KAJ and Wilt too. Whatever you think, he is clearly in some elite company.

No Duncan on that list? Along with Hakeem he had the biggest impact on both ends of the floor ever. And he proved he could do a lot with very little (compared to what most won with). :confusedshrug:

[BoutPractice]

When he's on there are very few ahead of him. When he's off, or when the opponents are really smart, he can be an outright liability and shit player.

We do need to balance the two. Shaq or Duncan never did anything nearly as terrible as '07 or '11, and I'd argue their '00 and '03 runs were better than anything LeBron did either.
I agree with your assessment of 00 and 03, but in a way it's unfair to compare bigmen to guards and wing players... Among non-bigs, LeBron's impact is on the same tier as Bird, Magic and Jordan. That's his real competition... LeBron couldn't play like peak Shaq, Wilt, Duncan or Hakeem if he tried.

As for his lesser moments, well... LeBron's 07 series is what was to be expected of the situation: a young (few people blame Kobe for his 00 Finals at around the same age), immature scoring superstar who somehow managed to take his one man show to the biggest stage only to find he wasn't ready. He should be praised for his 07 run more than anything, his precocious greatness is what got him so far so early in his career... he got this opportunity from pure talent and effort.

LeBron in 11 is inexcusable and even the biggest LeBron stans agree, but many greats have had at least one horrible series in their career. LeBron's worst happened to be in the Finals... That said if you compare him to the upper echelon of greats, where the comparison is going to be from now on, it's true that LeBron's disappearing act is probably the worst of the bunch.

[K Xerxes]

No Duncan on that list? Along with Hakeem he had the biggest impact on both ends of the floor ever. And he proved he could do a lot with very little (compared to what most won with). :confusedshrug:

Well, I don't think Duncan was as good as Hakeem offensively or defensively. It's certainly very arguable with LeBron, but I think his superior offensive and playmaking skills puts him slightly ahead of Duncan's defense and rebounding. It's so close anyway that I don't have any qualms with saying Duncan has as much impact, if not more.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I don't get how people hate on the 07 bron. He was 23 and took his team to the Finals. I mean a 23 year old led team facing Popovich is set to fail, especially as the leader of the team. It was all part of his learning curve for getting a ring. 11 is inexcusable though

[Straight_Ballin]

The OP asked in the NBA's history if any have. And it was stated that yes. There have been a lot.


Just because most of you little ladies here have no f*king perception of the history of the league and it's players that have come before Lebron doesn't make people "bitter".

That's some strong ether right there.

[LeBird]

Other than Lebron? Only Bird I'd say. They are great across the board in all facets with basically no weaknesses. More importantly, how they impact their team success is ridiculous. Bird takes over the 2nd worst team in the NBA and helps them to the #1 record in his rookie year. Lebron has a similar impact with Cleveland - look at their record after he leaves. Both amazing individuals with team-first mentalities.

People saying Jordan are on crack or missed most of the 80s.

[dubeta]

No Duncan on that list? Along with Hakeem he had the biggest impact on both ends of the floor ever. And he proved he could do a lot with very little (compared to what most won with). :confusedshrug:

Duncans peak is 21/11, heck what you saw last year from Duncan is not that far off from his peak

Stop trying to portray Duncan as some super player, he was a skilled PF that played for a GOAT organisation and GOAT coach, and got rings, thats it

No comparision with LeBron

A simple way to demonstrate this is the standards each player is placed:

1) LeBron takes his team to the Finals averages 18/7/7 and is labelled a choker

2) -Duncan can have a stacked team, and not win a title for 5 years (2008-2013) and no one cares

- Duncan can lose to an 8th seed as the 1st seed in 2011 and noone holds it against him

- Duncan can score 5 points in the second half of a Game 6 in the Finals, and then top it off by missing a clutch layup in Game 7 and people dont really talk about it

The difference in expectations between both players in astounding and highlights how much more inferior Duncan is than LeBron

Duncan may be better than Kobe, but no way in hell does he impact a game as well as LeBron :facepalm

[T_L_P]

Duncans peak is 21/11, heck what you saw last year from Duncan is not that far off from his peak

Stop trying to portray Duncan as some super player, he was a skilled PF that played for a GOAT organisation and GOAT coach, and got rings, thats it

I never thought I'd see so much bullshit in a single post. First of all, Dunan's regular season peak is 26/13/4/3, playing on one of the slowest teams in the league, and playing DPOY level defense. He wasn't worried about stats because he was such a team player.

However, in the '03 Playoffs, when Duncan lead a team without any other All-Stars to a title, he averaged 25/16/5/3. He had to anchor his team on both ends of the floor, something LeBron has never come close to doing (not that he necessarily should have to).

You clearly haven't been watching the game for very long if you think '13 Duncan is even half the player he was in his prime, let alone his peak. In his peak he was going up against prime Shaq and Kobe.

Popovich has only recently become a miracle worker. Back in the day his job was to give Tim a competent team and let him work (which is what he has said, numerous times). Just look at Pop's record before Duncan and the overall success since his decline to see how much he relied on the guy.

Duncan's peak > LeBron's. Better stats on slower teams, won a ring in a much tougher era/conference, and he did it without another All-Star (let alone two).

Every one of your "comparisons" at the end were about a past-his-prime Tim Duncan. Come back with something better, kid.

[cltcfn2924]

Bird isn't an elite defensive player... :facepalm


Lebron can't guard anybody 1 on 1. He lives off cheating the lanes.

[atljonesbro]

Other than Lebron? Only Bird I'd say. They are great across the board in all facets with basically no weaknesses. More importantly, how they impact their team success is ridiculous. Bird takes over the 2nd worst team in the NBA and helps them to the #1 record in his rookie year. Lebron has a similar impact with Cleveland - look at their record after he leaves. Both amazing individuals with team-first mentalities.

People saying Jordan are on crack or missed most of the 80s.
I can agree with this. Jordan doesn't have the impact LeBron has. We all saw what he did before Pippen. Bron was infinitely more success than Jordan with his bad team.

[dubeta]

I never thought I'd see so much bullshit in a single post. First of all, Dunan's regular season peak is 26/13/4/3, playing on one of the slowest teams in the league, and playing DPOY level defense. He wasn't worried about stats because he was such a team player.

However, in the '03 Playoffs, when Duncan lead a team without any other All-Stars to a title, he averaged 25/16/5/3. He had to anchor his team on both ends of the floor, something LeBron has never come close to doing (not that he necessarily should have to).

You clearly haven't been watching the game for very long if you think '13 Duncan is even half the player he was in his prime, let alone his peak. In his peak he was going up against prime Shaq and Kobe.

Popovich has only recently become a miracle worker. Back in the day his job was to give Tim a competent team and let him work (which is what he has said, numerous times). Just look at Pop's record before Duncan and the overall success since his decline to see how much he relied on the guy.

Duncan's peak > LeBron's. Better stats on slower teams, won a ring in a much tougher era/conference, and he did it without another All-Star (let alone two).

Every one of your "comparisons" at the end were about a past-his-prime Tim Duncan. Come back with something better, kid.

Ok, fine

Duncan's peak Player efficiency rating : 27.1

LeBron's peak Player efficiency rating: 31.67


Duncans career Player Efficiency Rating: 24.56

LeBron's career Player Efficiency Rating: 27.79

Heck LeBron's average PER is better than Duncan's best


And before you refute with "b-but pace" PER adjusts for pace accordingly. So even when you account for pace difference you see LeBron produces more

Anyway you try and slice it peak LeBron >> Peak Duncan

And in regards to playoffs, yes 2003 Duncan was sensational, but LeBron's 2012 is easily comparable if not better. 30/10/5 a game, while playing great defence (although not quite as good as Duncan's) but also had to hold the scoring and play making roles on offense

So even comparing LeBron and Duncan's championship runs, its hard to make a strong argument for Duncan

But if you just want to look at peak playoff runs since you want to argue peak Duncan > peak LeBron, peak Lebrons 2009 playoff run was 35/9/8 which lasted untill the Conference finals, he did this without a supporting cast with entire defences geared to stop him. This is something which you have to even agree Duncan can never do in terms of stats

So yes Duncan beat Kobe and Shaq, but LeBron beat Durant, Westbrook, and Harden with an injured Wade and a Bosh coming off injury, with a Coach far inferior than Popovich

So anyway you want to slice it LeBron ends up >>> Duncan

Please try and argue these points

[GimmeThat]

Plenty.

Lebron is an athletic beast who has great court vision and learned basketball skills by hard work.

Jordan was extremely skilled, who also happened to be very athletic for his position.


Modifying your game after Lebron is tough, because you are going for the whole aspect/positions and trying to be skill full while combining that with your athletic ability.

Modifying your game after Jordan, at the least, you are going to have great footworks, which easily negates atheleticism.


Do you want to be the train who could maneuver like no other

Or the mobile motorcycle who happens to be built like a tank.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Shaq, KAJ, Jordan, Wilt and Bird had more impact than Lebron (all at their peak).

As far as doing "things" to help the team win more and even making teammates better, those 5 players are definitely above Bron, and few more can be argued, you know who.

GTFOH with those overreactions, everytime the Heat beat a team in the Playoffs that ain't even all that, or close.