Kyrie

[JohnFreeman]

The Cavs are making noises that they aren't going to offer Kyrie Irving "max money" this summer via a long-term extension. They don't want to deal the 2014 All-Star Game MVP, but it could come to that, especially if the West Orange product and his family continue to tell people that he wants out. Irving hasn't been a leader in his first three seasons and he's also gained the unwelcomed reputation as a locker-room problem. Those are two reasons the Cavs don't see him as a max player.

"He was just handed too much, too soon," said one source. "You've got to make these young guys earn it, and that's where this team did a bad job with him."



http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24572043/report-cavs-dont-want-to-give-kyrie-irving-maximum-extension


Who would possibly pick him up?

[chocolatethunder]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/24572043/report-cavs-dont-want-to-give-kyrie-irving-maximum-extension


Who would possibly pick him up?
For max money? No one is assume. Also, who knows if this story is even true. It sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

[Sarcastic]

Someone will offer him max money if the Cavs won't. They would be crazy to let him go though.

[Uncle Drew]

Dude, the sauce is NYDN, therefore, it's bs.

[MP.Trey]

:facepalm

[KyrieTheFuture]

This source is even less credible than you are

[maybeshewill13]

Lakers? I think Cavs pay him though.

[Real Men Wear Green]

No reason to re-sign with a bad team for less than max.

[JohnFreeman]

No reason to re-sign with a bad team for less than max.
Exactly, f*ck the Cavs

[secund2nun]

If true the cavs are finally wising up.

[Real Men Wear Green]

If true the cavs are finally wising up.
It may be that he isn't worth the max but it would mean they wasted the #1 pick twice. Irving is a star that can get the max on the open market so if they don't keep him Cleveland had better at least trade him to retain the value that he represents. Failing a trade I'd max him, don't perpetuate a cycle of futility that could well lead to the guy they draft this year leaving ASAP as well.

[roffie]

classic cavs the team dat keeps on giving

[HylianNightmare]

wouldn't several teams throw mad money at him?

[Jameerthefear]

wouldn't several teams throw mad money at him?
i'm worried ours would...

[maybeshewill13]

wouldn't several teams throw mad money at him?
Eh.. he had a pretty poor season this season. Didn't really grow much from his sophomore year. I could see why it would be a risk to pay him big money.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Eh.. he had a pretty poor season this season. Didn't really grow much from his sophomore year. I could see why it would be a risk to pay him big money.
He made All-Star.

[secund2nun]

It may be that he isn't worth the max but it would mean they wasted the #1 pick twice. Irving is a star that can get the max on the open market so if they don't keep him Cleveland had better at least trade him to retain the value that he represents. Failing a trade I'd max him, don't perpetuate a cycle of futility that could well lead to the guy they draft this year leaving ASAP as well.

Yeah they can definitely trade him and get something in return for him so it won't be a waste. Signing him to a max contract will be a waste. Let some other team make him a toxic contract.

[secund2nun]

He made All-Star.

That means nothing. He had a poor season and they were in the lottery despite it being year 3 and the ECF being historically weak. All star voting is based on hype. The Cavs are actually better when Mr. Ball stopper is on the bench.

[JohnFreeman]

Gasol for Irving + Deng lol

[Real Men Wear Green]

Yeah they can definitely trade him and get something in return for him so it won't be a waste. Signing him to a max contract will be a waste. Let some other team make him a toxic contract.
Maxxing him may be more than he's worth but words like "toxic" don't apply. He's a young All-Star. I'd rather be paying a guy like him a few mil per season more than I think he's worth than continuing to wallow in mediocrity. If they get lucky in the draft they could have the foundation for a champ contender. I'm not letting that chance go easily, especially as hard as it is to build a winner in a place like Cleveland.

[Real Men Wear Green]

That means nothing. He had a poor season and they were in the lottery despite it being year 3 and the ECF being historically weak. All star voting is based on hype. The Cavs are actually better when Mr. Ball stopper is on the bench.
No it doesn't. He's legitimately a good scorer and could get 20+ ppg regardless of conference.

[secund2nun]

Maxxing him may be more than he's worth but words like "toxic" don't apply. He's a young All-Star. I'd rather be paying a guy like him a few mil per season more than I think he's worth than continuing to wallow in mediocrity. If they get lucky in the draft they could have the foundation for a champ contender. I'm not letting that chance go easily, especially as hard as it is to build a winner in a place like Cleveland.

"All star", "franchise player", "foundation"- these are just empty buzz words based on hype with no basis in reality. Kyrie is not a franchise player and certainly is not a foundation piece for a championship contender. If you pay Kyrie like a franchise player you will wallow in mediocrity.

He simply isn't that good. His entire career has been overrated. The guy plays the game the wrong way and is way too small to be a franchise player especially since he lacks such essential physical/mental skills that a PG needs like passing ability and a distributor mindset. Instead of making his teammates better he actually makes them worse. Just look at how much better ball movement was for Cleveland when Kyrie was on the bench. In addition he is a terrible defender, very entitled, a shot jacker, and injury prone.

[secund2nun]

No it doesn't. He's legitimately a good scorer and could get 20+ ppg regardless of conference.

How is a good scorer? 21 ppg on 17.5 shots per game 43% fg is not good. His career average so far is 21 ppg on 17 shots per game 45% fg which is average.

He will never be a guy who can be a great scorer because he is limited by his size. If he knows his role and stops jacking up shots he can be a nice effecient 18-21 point scorer eventually, but never better than that unless you want a Jerry Stackhouse statline of 30 ppg on 25 shots per game.

[Real Men Wear Green]

"All star", "franchise player", "foundation"- these are just empty buzz words based on hype with no basis in reality. Kyrie is not a franchise player and certainly is not a foundation piece for a championship contender. If you pay Kyrie like a franchise player you will wallow in mediocrity.No, "All-Star" is based on a voting system. The fans may not get the absolute best guys in but as a general rule guys that are voted in aren't far off from the best at their position. There have been a number of PGs inferior to Irving that started for champions. If they draft Embiid and he becomes one of the NBA's best bigs Cleveland mainly would have to keep their core together to become one of the EC's best teams in a few seasons.


He simply isn't that good. His entire career has been overrated. The guy plays the game the wrong way and is way too small to be a franchise player especially since he lacks such essential physical/mental skills that a PG needs like passing ability and a distributor mindset. Instead of making his teammates better he actually makes them worse. Just look at how much better ball movement was for Cleveland when Kyrie was on the bench. In addition he is a terrible defender, very entitled, a shot jacker, and injury prone.
His plus/minus is 1.1. (http://www.82games.com/1314/1314CLE.HTM) He's not the devil. Really.

[Shade8780]

Lakers? I think Cavs pay him though.
Here we go again...

[MMM]

giving kyrie max will ensure their franchise will never win an nba title unless they draft "the guy" in the next few years and are also able to give him the max.

[Real Men Wear Green]

How is a good scorer? 21 ppg on 17.5 shots per game 43% fg is not good. His career average so far is 21 ppg on 17 shots per game 45% fg which is average.No, it isn't. The "average" player can't score 20ppg. He's not an elite scorer but he is clearly an offensive weapon.

[JohnFreeman]

Knicks should sign him, they would score 120 a game with no defense

[DukeDelonte13]

i kinda hope it's true but it's probably not.

Kyrie Irving does not deserve max money, but will probably get it.


I hate his attitude. I know he's young and may grow out of it but he's a spoiled self entitled piece of crap that takes games off.

He insanely talented but he has to put it together mentally to get his game to the next level.

He does not make his teammates better.

[JohnFreeman]

Get rid of Irving and build around Embiid. I like Waiters more then Irving

[Meticode]

I'm personally fine with this. If they trade him, they trade him. Maybe that will change this season with a management shake up? We'll see.

What'd I'd like to see is him be a leader, give effort on defense most times on that end and stop complaining about non-calls.

But in recent memory scoring PGs don't win championships unless your name is Tony Parker and you have an all-time coach behind you with the best PF ever to play the game.

[Derka]

Insanity.

Kid can single-handedly take over a fourth quarter.

[secund2nun]

No, "All-Star" is based on a voting system. The fans may not get the absolute best guys in but as a general rule guys that are voted in aren't far off from the best at their position. There have been a number of PGs inferior to Irving that started for champions. If they draft Embiid and he becomes one of the NBA's best bigs Cleveland mainly would have to keep their core together to become one of the EC's best teams in a few seasons.


His plus/minus is 1.1. (http://www.82games.com/1314/1314CLE.HTM) He's not the devil. Really.

The voting system is based on hype. Irving, despite the lack of production, is very popular because of hype, especially from the Uncle Drew commercials, and his fancy fan pleasing yet inefficient style play. This is why when defending Kyrie most can only point to empty labels like "all star" and "all star game MVP". You can't actually look at his stats, the history of the game and Kyrie Irving type players, and the production because it will indicate the truth that he is very overrated and if he were to get a max contract it would be an outrageously bad contract.

The number of PGs starting for title winning teams doesn't mean anything without looking at their skills and how big their contracts were. Irving with a max or near max contract is a huge problem. If he was gonna get signed for his FMV there would be no problem, but he will be signed for more than twice the value of his FMV because of his hype.

Is a 1.1 +/- the sign of a star franchise player worth a max contract?

[StephHamann]

mavs will give him max money

dirk and carislie turned 38 year old kidd into a good player
imagine what they would do to kyrie

[Meticode]

I won't make any judgments. Last year he had a whole not coaching style and system under him, and now this season he's going to get it again. I'll wait to see how the team and in-particularly him adjust to it.

[secund2nun]

No, it isn't. The "average" player can't score 20ppg. He's not an elite scorer but he is clearly an offensive weapon.

Many players can score 20 ppg if they shoot enough. Scoring 21 ppg on 17 shots per game can easily be replicated by many NBA players even mediocre ones. 21 on 17 is not impressive. It is mediocre. That's just the truth. No amount of Uncle Drew commercials can change the stats/results.

All you need is a coach like this:

https://i.imgflip.com/93dk6.jpg

[Meticode]

All you need is a coach like this:

https://i.imgflip.com/93dk6.jpg
That was pretty corny. :lol

[secund2nun]

That was pretty corny. :lol

:oldlol:

[QuebecBaller]

Kyrie for Jrue?

[Pra]

Kyrie for Jrue?

I like that trade. While you're at it send CLE Rivers and find a third team to make the salaries work.

Extremely doubtful this happens. What if ORL trades pick #4 for Kyrie? CLE uses that pick to draft Exum. I assume ORL plans on drafting Exum with the #4 pick if Wiggins/Parker/Embiid get drafted top 3?

Please correct me if I am wrong with that assumption.

[DukeDelonte13]

Insanity.

Kid can single-handedly take over a fourth quarter.


Kyrie giveth and Kyrie taketh.

He tries to take over down the stretch too often and more often then not it f*cks the team over. He kills the ball movement.

However he absolutely can operate an offense, it's just in the fourth last 5 mins or so if the cavs are down he'll try and do it himself.

[Nastradamus]

It would be interesting to see what they'd get for him in a trade. They should make the move now or sign him for the max now.


Kyrie and Varejao for Rondo,6 and a future 1st(via Brooklyn or LAC)?

Kyrie and Varejao for Burke,Favors and 23?

Kyrie for MCW, the 10 pick and a future 1st?

Kyrie in a deal for Westbrook?

Kyrie for Oladipo,Harris and maybe a future pick?

[dubeta]

Kyrie is a Kevin Love type-player. Stat padder who plays no defence and takes his team to the lottery routinely

[secund2nun]

Kyrie is a Kevin Love type-player. Stat padder who plays no defence and takes his team to the lottery routinely

At least Love has impressive stats unlike Irving and Love can fit well on any team unlike Irving.

[Meticode]

At least Love has impressive stats unlike Irving and Love can fit well on any team unlike Irving.
Isn't that the truth?

[Meticode]

At least Love has impressive stats unlike Irving and Love can fit well on any team unlike Irving.
Isn't that the truth?

[MP.Trey]

At least Love has impressive stats unlike Irving and Love can fit well on any team unlike Irving.
LOL

[Doranku]

Get rid of Irving and build around Embiid. I like Waiters more then Irving

ROFL

[MP.Trey]

This thread is a gold mine. I recommend everyone read it.

[CTbasketball92]

Basketball narratives are so funny. Kyrie averaged 21 ppg with like a 54-56 TS% with like 6 assists and 4 rebounds from the ages of 19-21 with a player who's only managed to get a $3 million in his fifth season, an offensive non-factor in a young tristan thompson, a broken down Andy V ... and people wanted to get rid of him. LOL. Just goes to show you that GM's usually know their stuff, even if the cavs made a bunch of dumb mistakes in the past. You don't even think about letting a young player with that sort of efficient scoring ability to go along with low turnovers. Never.

The funny thing about this is that it's not even been proven that Kyrie can't be a solid traditional point guard. If he'd had anything close to a star second option, I'm talking like, even a demar derozan or healthy Bradley Beal or AL Jefferson sort of player, i think the Cavs would've won 40+ games and made the playoffs. Instead, he had a team that barely had a good third option and a bunch of average to bad role players. FYI, Wall's team missed the playoffs this year (he just turned 26 ...) and his team from this year is way better than any of Irving's pre-lebron.

[RedBlackAttack]

If true the cavs are finally wising up.


Yeah they can definitely trade him and get something in return for him so it won't be a waste. Signing him to a max contract will be a waste. Let some other team make him a toxic contract.


That means nothing. He had a poor season and they were in the lottery despite it being year 3 and the ECF being historically weak. All star voting is based on hype. The Cavs are actually better when Mr. Ball stopper is on the bench.


"All star", "franchise player", "foundation"- these are just empty buzz words based on hype with no basis in reality. Kyrie is not a franchise player and certainly is not a foundation piece for a championship contender. If you pay Kyrie like a franchise player you will wallow in mediocrity.

He simply isn't that good.


How is a good scorer? 21 ppg on 17.5 shots per game 43% fg is not good. His career average so far is 21 ppg on 17 shots per game 45% fg which is average.

He will never be a guy who can be a great scorer because he is limited by his size. If he knows his role and stops jacking up shots he can be a nice effecient 18-21 point scorer eventually, but never better than that unless you want a Jerry Stackhouse statline of 30 ppg on 25 shots per game.


At least Love has impressive stats unlike Irving and Love can fit well on any team unlike Irving.


Ouch.

Kyrie Irving was the part of a Big Two on a championship team that beat a 73-win Warriors squad in The Finals. Irving completely out-played his point guard counterpart who also happened to be the unanimous, back-to-back league MVP.

He will be 24-years-old next season and earning $17.6 million. Guys who will make more than him next year include Luol Deng (31), Allen Crabbe (24), Ryan Anderson (28), Harrison Barnes (24), etc.

He makes slightly more than Bismack Biyombo ($17 million).

Incredible foresight displayed here.


https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0Gqe2PIberuUjLKU/giphy.gif