Why did Jordan have such little success before Pippen?

[atljonesbro]

His record before Pippen was under .500. Does he just lack the impact that other superstars had?

[secund2nun]

The Bulls won 55 games without Jordan after he first retired. Great system, great coach, great Pippen.

[LeBird]

Because Jordan was more concerned with scoring points and jacking up 30 shots a night than his team winning. Well, that was basically always the case, but especially before Pippen.

[LeBron 06]

Because Jordan had not the same impact that LeBron, Shaq, etc.

[Trollsmasher]

His record after Pippen is under 0.500 too

How can be the GOAT so incapable of having a winning record in over 300 games without his sidekick?:confusedshrug:

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Because Pippen is 95% if Jodan is 100%.
Yes, he was THAT good. and Jordan needed such a second option to get shit done because he cant carry a team like LeBron

[JT123]

But...but Jordan MADE Pippen! :roll: :roll: :roll:
According to Jordan stans their boy is basically Jesus Christ, only instead of turning water into wine he turned scrubs into Superstars! :facepalm

[mr4speed]

His record after Pippen is under 0.500 too

How can be the GOAT so incapable of having a winning record in over 300 games without his sidekick?:confusedshrug:
A lot of people forget that besides Pippen, Horace Grant also joined the Bulls and gets little credit for doing the dirty work (defense and rebounding) and helping the team.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

http://www.posters.ws/images/359856/boston_celtics_big_five_legends_composite_photofil e.jpg


Niqqa if MJ won a series against these guys (Celtics AND Pistons) in the 80's he'd be the absolute unanimous GOAT of basketball. Ever.

Today many consider him the Goat but some ppl give that title to others such as Kareem, Magic, Russell etc.


Expecting MJ to beat those teams in the 80's is like expecting Bran to singlehandedly lead the Cavs to the Finals and beat the 04 Lakers...in his rookie season.

[stalkerforlife]

He played two full seasons without Pippen in a BRUTALLY STACKED eastern conference.

lol...Bran stans are so insecure.

[atljonesbro]

He played two full seasons without Pippen in a BRUTALLY STACKED eastern conference.

lol...Bran stans are so insecure.
Lol at Bran stan. I'm just not a brainwashed Jordan mythologist.

[Trollsmasher]

http://www.posters.ws/images/359856/boston_celtics_big_five_legends_composite_photofil e.jpg


Niqqa if MJ won a series against these guys (Celtics AND Pistons) in the 80's he'd be the absolute unanimous GOAT of basketball. Ever.

Today many consider him the Goat but some ppl give that title to others such as Kareem, Magic, Russell etc.


Expecting MJ to beat those teams in the 80's is like expecting Bran to singlehandedly lead the Cavs to the Finals and beat the 04 Lakers...in his rookie season.
It's not about beating these teams (MJ was never good enough to win a playoff series on his own), but the GOAT should be at least able to obtain a winning RS record without a TOP 6 SF of all time:confusedshrug:

[JT123]

He played two full seasons without Pippen in a BRUTALLY STACKED eastern conference.

lol...Bran stans are so insecure.
His team got into the playoffs with 32 wins. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Conference was top heavy, but overall was just as pathetic as it is today. :no:

[LeBird]

Expecting MJ to beat those teams in the 80's is like expecting Bran to singlehandedly lead the Cavs to the Finals and beat the 04 Lakers...in his rookie season.

Forget winning it. How about a .500 record? Is that too much to ask for? Larry Bird came into the league and as a Rookie took the 2nd worst team to the best record in his Rookie year. He won it a year later without the stacked team Celtics later had. If he could do it, why couldn't Jordan if he is the GOAT?

That's because he never could have that kind of impact on a team. His individual play as brilliant as it was did not translate into helping his team massively.

Heck, IIRC, even Magic helped the Lakers improve on their record in his rookie season more than Jordan did for the Bulls and the Lakers were already a good team (meaning, there was less room for them to improve).

[stalkerforlife]

His team got into the playoffs with 32 wins. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Conference was top heavy, but overall was just as pathetic as it is today. :no:

:roll:

[atljonesbro]

His team got into the playoffs with 32 wins. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Conference was top heavy, but overall was just as pathetic as it is today. :no:
He made the playoffs with a 38 win team, 30 win team, and 40 win team.

Stacked conference :oldlol: :facepalm

[Straight_Ballin]

But...but Jordan MADE Pippen! :roll: :roll: :roll:
According to Jordan stans their boy is basically Jesus Christ, only instead of turning water into wine he turned scrubs into Superstars! :facepalm

Pippen wasn't a scrub but he was someone who Jordan saw had potential so he spent and devoted his personal time to Pippen to MAKE him the player he was.

He tried that with Kwame Brown but Kwame to but Kwame couldn't handle it. Too much of a mental midget like Bron needing Wade instead of being able to make his own Pippen.

Anyone who disagrees didn't start watching baseketball until after 2000

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Forget winning it. How about a .500 record? Is that too much to ask for? Larry Bird came into the league and as a Rookie took the 2nd worst team to the best record in his Rookie year. He won it a year later without the stacked team Celtics later had. If he could do it, why can't Jordan if he is the GOAT?

That's because he never could have that kind of impact on a team. His individual play as brilliant as it was did not translate into helping his team massively.

Heck, IIRC, even Magic helped the Lakers improve on their record in his rookie season more than Jordan did for the Bulls and the Lakers were already a good team (meaning, there was less room for them to improve).
MJ was in statpad mode in the 80's, besides who did Bird have to face in the PO's? The 76ers, but they don't face them until the ECF or 2nd round. Bulls have the unfortunate nack to end up facing one of the GOAT teams in the first round. And Magic? He's great but I doubt they get as far as they did without Kareem. Kareem and Magic were 1a and 1b, MJ and Bulls were 1. MJ and 2. George Gervin 3. Everyone else.

[GimmeThat]

Human beings in a mob
What

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Human beings in a mob
What’s a mob to a king?
What’s a king to a god?
What’s a god to a non-believer?
Who don’t believe in anything?
Tears on the mausoleum floor
Blood stains the Colosseum doors
Lies on the lips of a priest
Thanksgiving disguised as a feast
Rolling in Rolls Royce Corniche
Only the doctors got this, I’m hiding from police
Cocaine seats, all white like I got the whole thing bleached
Drug dealer chic, I’m wondering if a thug’s prayers reach
Is Pious pious cause God loves pious?
Socrates asked whose bias do y'all seek?
All for Plato, screech
I’m out here balling, I know y'all hear my sneaks
Jesus was a carpenter, Yeezy he laid beats
Hova flow the Holy Ghost, get the hell up out your seats, preach



Jay-Z is still the real sh!t, better than that @sshat known as Drake:pimp:

Good taste:cheers:

[DMV2]

Other than Oakley for one season, I can't name any of his teammates. Arguably one of the worse supporting cast of all-time.

[LeBird]

MJ was in statpad mode in the 80's, besides who did Bird have to face in the PO's? The 76ers, but they don't face them until the ECF or 2nd round. Bulls have the unfortunate nack to end up facing one of the GOAT teams in the first round. And Magic? He's great but I doubt they get as far as they did without Kareem. Kareem and Magic were 1a and 1b, MJ and Bulls were 1. MJ and 2. George Gervin 3. Everyone else.

So as I said: Jordan was more interested in jacking up 30 shots a game and trying to score points than to win.

I love how you casually mention the 76ers. Yeah, one of the GOAT teams. You also forget the Moncrief Bucks, and later on the Badboy Pistons. One of, if not the, toughest eras in basketball history and also in the toughest conference of that era.

You need to accept it. I don't care if you still think Jordan is the GOAT or if you've invested in too much Bulls memorabilia to change your mind...but the reality is that people give Jordan all the excuses or passes in the world for not succeeding until he actually had the best team in the league.

[Straight_Ballin]

[QUOTE=BlkMambaGOAT]Tears on the mausoleum floor
Blood stains the Colosseum doors
Lies on the lips of a priest
Thanksgiving disguised as a feast
Rolling in Rolls Royce Corniche
Only the doctors got this, I

[BlkMambaGOAT]

So as I said: Jordan was more interested in jacking up 30 shots a game and trying to score points than to win.

I love how you casually mention the 76ers. Yeah, one of the GOAT teams. You also forget the Moncrief Bucks, and later on the Badboy Pistons. One of, if not the, toughest eras in basketball history and also in the toughest conference of that era.

You need to accept it. I don't care if you still think Jordan is the GOAT or if you've invested in too much Bulls memorabilia to change your mind...but the reality is that people give Jordan all the excuses or passes in the world for not succeeding until he actually had the best team in the league.
I've mentioned the Pistons, they're a great team:pimp:

But Moncrief's Bucks?

Now that's reachin

My point is if MJ hadn't faced the 80's Celtics and Pistons in the first round they could've at least made it past the 1st/2nd round whereas Bird faced the great 76ers in the ECF, thus his first round failure wouldn't looked down upon as much.

[Kovach]

The Bulls won 55 games without Jordan after he first retired.
Which was 5 more than GSW managed to win that season. Who cares? :confusedshrug:

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Swinging, singing a brand new rap
On a rhythm concocted by my homie in the back and
If it makes you giggle, it must be kinda funny
But to me it's kinda cool (Tell 'em why), I'm making money
Tripping up the man wit the swift hand movement
Proving if you're grooving then it cool when he be doing it
Taking a second for me to blow your mind
Cause I'm the diggy diggy doc and I would've been down with rock
But I was smart, the D.O. to the C. now on the formula
It's rough, I mean it's funky enough for me
And you can have a listen after that and this and
D-O-N-T M-O-V-E yo without permission
From the D.O. to the C., I'm just better than
The normal man and I'll be dumb if a sucker can
Ever compete wit the elite
Much less beat, it's like dancing with two left feet
Never smile when the doc is in the room
Or I'm a send ya ass to the temple of doom
I got raw when I came to Cali
Now wit N.W.A. on the mutha****ing grand finale
Dr.Dre and Ice Cube are good too:pimp:

Nowadays the only "new rapper" I like is Eminem and Sean Paul (started listening to him from '06 so he's probably been around for much longer)

[Straight_Ballin]

Dr.Dre and Ice Cube are good too:pimp:

Nowadays the only "new rapper" I like is Eminem and Sean Paul (started listening to him from '06 so he's probably been around for much longer)

I'm not disputing Dre and Cube being good, but the lyrics I posted was from the D.O.C who back in the day was one of the illest mo fvckers to ever pick up a mic. You don't hear about him much because he got into a car accident and messed up his voice.

[f0und]

because he was a young player with a bad team. it happens. bron missed the playoffs his first two years.

but jordan started having playoff success even before pippen became a factor. its stupid when people act like young pippen scoring 10 ppg was a big factor in jordan leading his underdog team past the heavily favored cavs.

[DonDadda59]

because he was a young player with a bad team. it happens. bron missed the playoffs his first two years.

but jordan started having playoff success even before pippen became a factor. its stupid when people act like young pippen scoring 10 ppg was a big factor in jordan leading his underdog team past the heavily favored cavs.

The same idiots giving bench scrub Pippen credit for Jordan's work should be giving Norris Cole all the credit for Bron's recent success.

[LeBird]

I've mentioned the Pistons, they're a great team:pimp:

But Moncrief's Bucks?

Now that's reachin

My point is if MJ hadn't faced the 80's Celtics and Pistons in the first round they could've at least made it past the 1st/2nd round whereas Bird faced the great 76ers in the ECF, thus his first round failure wouldn't looked down upon as much.

It's not reaching. Educate yourself, go look at the records, look at that team. Those Bucks were as good or better than any team Jordan faced in the 90s. If not for the almost undefeated (almost because the Bucks beat them in the only game they dropped in the entire playoffs) Sixers they might have won a ring.

You keep reverting to a strawman argument. No one says that Jordan should have won a ring, by beating those teams, in that era. We're saying he couldn't even get them to .500.

Bird takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Celtics #1 Regular season record in the league and Conference finals (lost to Sixers).
- Next year: 62-20 (#1 overall) and NBA Champs.
- The year after that: 63-19 (#1 overall, again) and Conference finals (lost to Sizers).

Jordan takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Bulls: 38-44, no Playoffs
- Next year: 30-52, no playoffs and Jordan's absence (he only played 18 games) barely makes a difference.
- The year after that: 40-42, 1st round swept by Celtics

So, no excuses.

[DonDadda59]

87-88

Jordan puts up 35/6/6 (54% FG) 3.2 SPG/1.6 BPG, wins MVP, DPOY, scoring title, steals title, MPG leader, led win shares, highest PER... led the Bulls to 50 wins.

But dat was all Pippen doe (8/4/2 on 46% coming off the bench every game).

It's amazing MJ didn't 'decide' to 'take his talents' elsewhere playing for those squads :applause:

[stalkerforlife]

87-88

Jordan puts up 35/6/6 (54% FG) 3.2 SPG/1.6 BPG, wins MVP, DPOY, scoring title, steals title, MPG leader, led win shares, highest PER... led the Bulls to 50 wins.

But dat was all Pippen doe (8/4/2 on 46% coming off the bench every game).

It's amazing MJ didn't 'decide' to 'take his talents' elsewhere playing for those squads :applause:

/thread

NO, SERIOUSLY...

/THREAD

[f0und]

87-88

Jordan puts up 35/6/6 (54% FG) 3.2 SPG/1.6 BPG, wins MVP, DPOY, scoring title, steals title, MPG leader, led win shares, highest PER... led the Bulls to 50 wins.

But dat was all Pippen doe (8/4/2 on 46% coming off the bench every game).

It's amazing MJ didn't 'decide' to 'take his talents' elsewhere playing for those squads :applause:

:applause:

the bron/kobe stans that dont wtf they're talking about like to revise history and say that AS SOON as pippen and grant to there, they were impact players and turned jordan from zero to hero instantly.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It's not reaching. Educate yourself, go look at the records, look at that team. Those Bucks were as good or better than any team Jordan faced in the 90s. If not for the almost undefeated (almost because the Bucks beat them in the only game they dropped in the entire playoffs) Sixers they might have won a ring.

You keep reverting to a strawman argument. No one says that Jordan should have won a ring, by beating those teams, in that era. We're saying he couldn't even get them to .500.

Bird takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Celtics #1 Regular season record in the league and Conference finals (lost to Sixers).
- Next year: 62-20 (#1 overall) and NBA Champs.
- The year after that: 63-19 (#1 overall, again) and Conference finals (lost to Sizers).

Jordan takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Bulls: 38-44, no Playoffs
- Next year: 30-52, no playoffs and Jordan's absence (he only played 18 games) barely makes a difference.
- The year after that: 40-42, 1st round swept by Celtics

So, no excuses.



Bird had 7 other players averaging double digits in scoring his rookie year

Jordan had 3..


Birds 2nd year they added Mchale and Parrish & were stacked as hell.

[Straight_Ballin]

Pauk meltdown in 3....2....1 as he remembers the days of old when Phong would bring dat ether day in and day out.

[SamuraiSWISH]

the bron/kobe stans that dont wtf they're talking about like to revise history and say that AS SOON as pippen and grant to there, they were impact players and turned jordan from zero to hero instantly.
Yup. It's an agenda thing. Both Pippen, and Grant were green until 1990 really, and even then Pippen was still too mentally weak to be reliable against mentally tough, and physically imposing teams such as the Bad Boy Pistons in the playoffs.

[Trollsmasher]

Bird had 7 other players averaging double digits in scoring his rookie year

Jordan had 3..


Birds 2nd year they added Mchale and Parrish & were stacked as hell.
Guess whose fault that was:lol

[f0und]

It's not reaching. Educate yourself, go look at the records, look at that team. Those Bucks were as good or better than any team Jordan faced in the 90s. If not for the almost undefeated (almost because the Bucks beat them in the only game they dropped in the entire playoffs) Sixers they might have won a ring.

You keep reverting to a strawman argument. No one says that Jordan should have won a ring, by beating those teams, in that era. We're saying he couldn't even get them to .500.

Bird takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Celtics #1 Regular season record in the league and Conference finals (lost to Sixers).
- Next year: 62-20 (#1 overall) and NBA Champs.
- The year after that: 63-19 (#1 overall, again) and Conference finals (lost to Sizers).

Jordan takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Bulls: 38-44, no Playoffs
- Next year: 30-52, no playoffs and Jordan's absence (he only played 18 games) barely makes a difference.
- The year after that: 40-42, 1st round swept by Celtics

So, no excuses.

outside his wizard days, jordan never missed the playoffs

[Trollsmasher]

outside his wizard days, jordan never missed the playoffs
true

missing playoffs in an 11 teams conference was impossible even for him

[f0und]

Yup. It's an agenda thing. Both Pippen, and Grant were green until 1990 really, and even then Pippen was still too mentally weak to be reliable against mentally tough, and physically imposing teams such as the Bad Boy Pistons in the playoffs.

and before '90, jordan had already made a few deep post season runs, including making it all the way to the ECFs.

[LeBird]

87-88

Jordan puts up 35/6/6 (54% FG) 3.2 SPG/1.6 BPG, wins MVP, DPOY, scoring title, steals title, MPG leader, led win shares, highest PER... led the Bulls to 50 wins.

But dat was all Pippen doe (8/4/2 on 46% coming off the bench every game).

It's amazing MJ didn't 'decide' to 'take his talents' elsewhere playing for those squads :applause:

What were Jordan's stats the years before? And what were their Per 36? Exactly. Oakley and Vincent on the starters with Grant and Pippen on the bench. And that's still better than what Lebron had in 07 mind you.

BTW, how did the playoffs go that season? Exactly. Without Pippen Jordan had no real success. An irrefutable fact.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Guess whose fault that was:lol

Jordan averaged more assist than bird

4.5 to 5.9

And if its Jordan's fault for his teammates not bein good EVEN THOUGH he averaged a high number of assist then its Lebrons fault for his teammates not being good as a cav EVEN THOUGH he average a high number of assist.

But... You were saying?

[LeBird]

outside his wizard days, jordan never missed the playoffs

Sorry, shitload of editing, copy pasting, on that post; deleted words. No Playoffs success*

[SamuraiSWISH]

and before '90, jordan had already made a few deep post season runs, including making it all the way to the ECFs.
In '89 he dragged the Bulls there, and basically single handedly gave the Bad Boy Pistons their only losses of the post season. Not even Pat Riley, and Magic Johnson's stacked Lakers could give them an L. Just Jordan.

[f0und]

What were Jordan's stats the years before? And what were their Per 36? Exactly. Oakley and Vincent on the starters with Grant and Pippen on the bench. And that's still better than what Lebron had in 07 mind you.

BTW, how did the playoffs go that season? Exactly. Without Pippen Jordan had no real success. An irrefutable fact.

beat the favored cavs. lost to the bad boy pistons in the next rnd. i would say theres some level of success there.

[imdaman99]

The same idiots giving bench scrub Pippen credit for Jordan's work should be giving Norris Cole all the credit for Bron's recent success.
Exactly. Bran won 0 rings before Norris Cole came into the picture :cheers:

[LeBron 06]

In '89 he dragged the Bulls there, and basically single handedly gave the Bad Boy Pistons their only losses of the post season. Not even Pat Riley, and Magic Johnson's stacked Lakers could give them an L. Just Jordan.


Magic Johnson was injured in game 2 vs Detroit and I think Magic was out after that

So it is certain that the lakers were not the same team without Magic

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lets not ignore this Lebird guy straight up lying about the bulls not makin the playoffs

[LeBird]

Bird had 7 other players averaging double digits in scoring his rookie year

Jordan had 3..

Birds 2nd year they added Mchale and Parrish & were stacked as hell.

Yeah, genius, how were those players in the years prior? There's a reason why we're talking about how both the Bulls and the Celtics were both the 2nd worst teams and are now discussing their effect on their teams.

The above actually proves my point that Larry had a ridiculous effect on his team, without any stars or much change in the team, similar to Lebron. Jordan? Nope.

McHale was a non-factor in his first year and in any case... Bird had already taken them to the #1 record in the league and the conference finals without them. Checkmate.

[f0und]

Exactly. Bran won 0 rings before Norris Cole came into the picture :cheers:

we should start a thread about this useing the exact same re*tarded argument that the bron stans use.

[SamuraiSWISH]

What's more impressive.

LeBron's run through the pathetic East in 2007, then getting swept in the Finals while playing like absolute garbage.

or

Jordan's historic '89 run through the tough East, eventually giving the soon to be champions their only losses of the post season in the Conference Finals?

[Trollsmasher]

Jordan averaged more assist than bird

4.5 to 5.9

And if its Jordan's fault for his teammates not bein good EVEN THOUGH he averaged a high number of assist then its Lebrons fault for his teammates not being good as a cav EVEN THOUGH he average a high number of assist.

But... You were saying?
assists are not an indicator of being willing to share the ball:facepalm

Jordan's assists were like Durant's. He hogged the ball without moving the ball on offense and most them came from bailouts shots if his teammates.

[Trollsmasher]

What's more impressive.

LeBron's run through the pathetic East in 2007, then getting swept in the Finals while playing like absolute garbage.

or

Jordan's historic '89 run through the tough East, eventually giving the soon to be champions their only losses of the post season in the Conference Finals?
There is absolutely nothing historic about any '89 run (this is the first time I have ever heard somebody call it historic and I have dealt with the worst kinds of MJ stans)

The only thing people remember about is Jordan quitting:facepalm

[SamuraiSWISH]

Magic Johnson was injured in game 2 vs Detroit and I think Magic was out after that
He played in 3 games of the 4.

[LeBird]

beat the favored cavs. lost to the bad boy pistons in the next rnd. i would say theres some level of success there.

We're being really lenient with the term there when the discussion revolves around guys that turned their teams around either overnight or took them to the finals at least without any identifiable help.

This is the trade-off. People can still call Jordan their GOAT as far as I'm concerned but then they have to acknowledge that Jordan needed help to improve the team and stop talking about him as some cartoon character that did no wrong or never lost.

But they don't want to do that because that would mean they can no longer talk trash about how Lebron needed to 'team' up with stars to win. Because the irony is that if you want to talk about a player who lifts his team more, it's clearly Lebron > Jordan.

[Young X]

'85: Rookie season. Who cares?

'86: Gets injured for 64 games. Bulls went 9-9 with him and 21-43 without him, faces one of the GOAT teams in the first round. Put up 63 in a playoff game and his team still lost, that right there just tells you how little help he had.

'87: Takes a horrible supporting cast to the playoffs and once again loses to the same team with no help at all. Basically did the same thing Kobe did in '06 and Wade did in '09 in his 2nd full season in the league.

Who cares? None of these seasons were his prime seasons, no one says this version of him was the best ever. What he did from '88-'98 is why he's looked at as the GOAT.

[atljonesbro]

What's more impressive.

LeBron's run through the pathetic East in 2007, then getting swept in the Finals while playing like absolute garbage.

or

Jordan's historic '89 run through the tough East, eventually giving the soon to be champions their only losses of the post season in the Conference Finals?
Can't believe you brainwashed Jordan stans believe what you're typing. :facepalm Making the Finals >> Making the Conference finals in every scenario.

[MastaKilla]

..

[Trollsmasher]

Can't believe you brainwashed Jordan stans believe what you're typing. :facepalm Making the Finals >> Making the Conference finals in every scenario.
especially when you quit in those Conference Finals

Bulls lead 2-1, MJ proceeds to put up 23/2/4 and 18/5/9 in the next two games (23 shots combined), losing both and completly quitting on the team that should've won it all:lol

[LeBird]

...


All that nonsense when if you had read:

"Bird had already taken them to the #1 record in the league and the conference finals without them. Checkmate."

You wouldn't have wasted your time, ours and the bandwidth here. Then your dumbass made the point that Archibald and co, who were at the Celtics pre-Bird and was part of that 29-53 Celtics was the difference and not Bird. Who in his Rookie season was, of course, Rookie of the Year and was getting MVP talk (came 4th).

EDIT: good to see you edited ;).

[Knoe Itawl]

Sucks that a player I actually like, like Bron has so many ignorant Stans. These guy are getting to be as bad as Bryant Stans, and I NEVER thought that would be possible for any group of Stans. :facepalm

[atljonesbro]

especially when you quit in those Conference Finals

Bulls lead 2-1, MJ proceeds to put up 23/2/4 and 18/5/9 in the next two games (23 shots combined), losing both and completly quitting on the team that should've won it all:lol
Wow those are pretty shocking numbers. He just flat out gave up on them. Feel bad for his teammates. He's suppose to be the leader of that team but he just decides to call it quits.

[jimmy77x]

Lebeta stans just dont get. No matter how much you try to twist things Bran will NEVER be better than MJ, he will NEVER be the GOAT, he will only be known as a career loser ph@ggot that had to collide with multiple allstar/superstars to win pathetic cheap rings that no one respects except his sheep fans that worship him. Go cry about it:lol

[Knoe Itawl]

Lebeta stans just dont get. No matter how much you try to twist things Bran will NEVER be better than MJ, he will NEVER be the GOAT, he will only be known as a career loser ph@ggot that had to collide with multiple allstar/superstars to win pathetic cheap rings that no one respects except his sheep fans that worship him. Go cry about it:lol

And this is the other extreme. The fact of the matter is that the extremes on both sides are ridiculous.

The Bron Stans trying to get him on MJs level when he just isn't there, though he's obviously an all time great.

The Mindless Bron haters who can't accept that just because they dislike him, it doesn't mean that he won't retire at least top 5 of all time, and has a very real possibility of going higher.

I don't know which group I dislike more.

[hahaitme]

Bill Russell > Jordan

[oh the horror]

Sucks that a player I actually like, like Bron has so many ignorant Stans. These guy are getting to be as bad as Bryant Stans, and I NEVER thought that would be possible for any group of Stans. :facepalm



Oh it's possible. And it'll be worse if the Heat win another this year.

[TheMan]

Can't believe you brainwashed Jordan stans believe what you're typing. :facepalm Making the Finals >> Making the Conference finals in every scenario.
The East was garbage in 07 doe, if you think Bron leads those Cavs to the Finals in the 80s/90s, then talking basketball might not be your thing, homie.

[Akrazotile]

Oh it's possible. And it'll be worse if the Heat win another this year.
A large number of the Lebron 'stans' on this website are purposeful trolls trying to get a rise out of folks.

In Kobe's prime, his stans were a massive army of real, legit people who were obsessed with his glorification and worship. A lot of them have disappeared but they used to be a really sizable and disturbing congregation of beta males with a bizarre devotion to Bean.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Sucks that a player I actually like, like Bron has so many ignorant Stans. These guy are getting to be as bad as Bryant Stans, and I NEVER thought that would be possible for any group of Stans. :facepalm

:oldlol: at this hypocrite. ****ing guy has been on a Kobe hating crusade since ISH's inception (ezboards) yet is in here whining about "extremes". SMH :oldlol:

[diamenz]

man, every time i see bron make a nice play i be like ya-uh!

then i think about his fanbase and be like man fuc|< lebron!

[sd3035]

Pippen was more important to the team's success than Jordan. Pip was almost as good as Bran

[Nikola_]

Give Bran Corzine, Banks, Oakley and Paxson and he is sweeping the spurs in this years finals. Thats how good is he.

[TheMan]

Give Bran Corzine, Banks, Oakley and Paxson and he is sweeping the spurs in this years finals. Thats how good is he.
NSIS but how did he lose with prime Wade and Bosh in 11 :confusedshrug:

[Dengness9]

http://th07.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/331/d/8/goat_poster_by_maxmanax-d6vwjtf.png

[SamuraiSWISH]

:oldlol: at this hypocrite. ****ing guy has been on a Kobe hating crusade since ISH's inception (ezboards) yet is in here whining about "extremes". SMH :oldlol:
LOL right?

FYI, Kobe stans were never THIS bad.

[Dengness9]

http://puu.sh/1JlA8

[Dengness9]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-e6a3Pd3lbjg/TyDoqRTS5hI/AAAAAAAAR5w/Gp-7SnMtgvE/s1600/michael-jordan-art-by-a-bb-2.jpg

[Dengness9]

http://kaboom-magazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/Michael-Jordan-69-points-Bulls-vs-Cavaliers.jpg

[Dengness9]

http://dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Michael_Jordan_Wallpaper.png

[Asukal]

Ohhhh the agenda of these stans.... :applause:

http://i.imgur.com/WUkTyI4.gif

MJ is the GOAT just live with it. :oldlol:

[MrC1991]

Because Pippen is 95% if Jodan is 100%.
Yes, he was THAT good. and Jordan needed such a second option to get shit done because he cant carry a team like LeBron

But LeBron has Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, and Pat Riley:confusedshrug:

[Calabis]

It's not reaching. Educate yourself, go look at the records, look at that team. Those Bucks were as good or better than any team Jordan faced in the 90s. If not for the almost undefeated (almost because the Bucks beat them in the only game they dropped in the entire playoffs) Sixers they might have won a ring.

You keep reverting to a strawman argument. No one says that Jordan should have won a ring, by beating those teams, in that era. We're saying he couldn't even get them to .500.

Bird takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Celtics #1 Regular season record in the league and Conference finals (lost to Sixers).
- Next year: 62-20 (#1 overall) and NBA Champs.
- The year after that: 63-19 (#1 overall, again) and Conference finals (lost to Sizers).

Jordan takes over 2nd worst team in the NBA in his rookie season:
- Bulls: 38-44, no Playoffs
- Next year: 30-52, no playoffs and Jordan's absence (he only played 18 games) barely makes a difference.
- The year after that: 40-42, 1st round swept by Celtics

So, no excuses.

:facepalm

Please tell us who they added in the off-season besides Bird and why not mention the player coach issue.

[PickernRoller]

The worst fanbase in all of Sports: LeStans.

The only place were such a sh1tty fanbase can thrive: ISH.

I am a Lebron fan but I know his limitations. He is Top 15, not even sniffing Top 10 yet. Jordan is the GOAT - undisputed.

[Calabis]

Hubie Brown: When Michael came into the league, he came in with an explosion by averaging 28.2 points in his very first year, shooting 51.5 percent from the field, 84.5 percent from the line, and adding 6.5 rebounds and 5.9 assists a game.*So for all of the people who say that he was wasn't a complete player and didn't do everything on the court, I say to them he did do everything! In his very first year!

From the outset of his career, Michael possessed an unparalleled quickness off the dribble, and his ability to dribble with either hand and finish in the lane with an explosion separated him from the rest of the players in the league. Plus, he always backed up his drives with the high shooting percentages, so defending him was nearly impossible. You could never foul him, because he'd go to the line and make 85 percent. What they had in Chicago was this incredible diamond,*but a diamond surrounded by less than a playoff-type athlete.*

Clyde Drexler 1987 on Jordan: ON A BLUSTERY NIGHT IN CHICAGO when Michael Jordan hits the Portland Trail Blazers with a 53-point avalanche, reporters gather around Clyde Drexler to catch his drift. And the Glide of Portland isn't shoveling bull about this Bull.

"What happened in the fourth quarter?" Someone asks.

"They started to execute their offense. In other words, Michael took over."

"Just how good is Michael?"

"MVP. He's got my vote."

OK. But what about Larry and Magic?

"If Michael had the same supporting cast as Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, he would win as often as they do. If your talking who's most valuable to his team, it's Michael."

[deja vu]

51 year old dude living rent free in pimply teenagers' minds.

[atljonesbro]

The worst fanbase in all of Sports: LeStans.

The only place were such a sh1tty fanbase can thrive: ISH.

I am a Lebron fan but I know his limitations. He is Top 15, not even sniffing Top 10 yet. Jordan is the GOAT - undisputed.
Such a noble LeBron fan deliberately under rating his ranking searching for the approval of other posters :applause:

[f0und]

this may be the thread that cements the passing of the torch from kobe kids to lebron stans as the worst, history revising, fact twisting, most unknowledgeble fanbase in all of sports. all this stuff that bron stans are doing now, ive seen the exact same thing before from kobe kids.

[atljonesbro]

this may be the thread that cements the passing of the torch from kobe kids to lebron stans as the worst, history revising, fact twisting, most unknowledgeble fanbase in all of sports. all this stuff that bron stans are doing now, ive seen the exact same thing before from kobe kids.
Not sure why everyone thinks this thread was made to prop Bran. Not really a bran fan, I'm a Hawks fan.

[Dengness9]

Not sure why everyone thinks this thread was made to prop Bran. Not really a bran fan, I'm a Hawks fan.


Seeing as you called out a Bron "fan" for underrating him, what's your real agenda? You pop up in every Bron thread.....

Don't backtrack. Youre a stan of some kind.

[atljonesbro]

Seeing as you called out a Bron "fan" for underrating him, what's your real agenda? You pop up in every Bron thread.....

Don't backtrack. Youre a stan of some kind.
I can recognize talent. I'm not one trick pony like most stans on this site. This thread was meant to bring up a legitimate gripe about Jordan and all his mythologists got offended and started feeling insecure. Most insecure fanbase of all time :facepalm

[Knoe Itawl]

this may be the thread that cements the passing of the torch from kobe kids to lebron stans as the worst, history revising, fact twisting, most unknowledgeble fanbase in all of sports. all this stuff that bron stans are doing now, ive seen the exact same thing before from kobe kids.

This.

[Nevaeh]

I can recognize talent. I'm not one trick pony like most stans on this site. This thread was meant to bring up a legitimate gripe about Jordan and all his mythologists got offended and started feeling insecure. Most insecure fanbase of all time :facepalm

Dude, quit it. As has been pointed out, Jordan had played only 2 seasons before Pip even joined the team. It's not like he had Pip as an instant impact player either. And lets not pretend that Pip was lighting the world on fire, considering it still took 4 seasons for him to truly become an impact player.

Youngsters bitch and moan constantly about how Lebron "had no help in Cleveland" as a way to excuse his early years, yet can't seem to do the same for Jordan for strange reason. In other words, ISH gonna ISH like it has for 5 years plus.

:rolleyes:

[Rose'sACL]

MJ was in statpad mode in the 80's, besides who did Bird have to face in the PO's? The 76ers, but they don't face them until the ECF or 2nd round. Bulls have the unfortunate nack to end up facing one of the GOAT teams in the first round. And Magic? He's great but I doubt they get as far as they did without Kareem. Kareem and Magic were 1a and 1b, MJ and Bulls were 1. MJ and 2. George Gervin 3. Everyone else.
how was that unfortunate? he could have won a few games more and could have avoided them. no 7/8th seed is unfortunate to face 1/2nd seed. They can make their luck in the regular season.

[Rose'sACL]

Dude, quit it. As has been pointed out, Jordan had played only 2 seasons before Pip even joined the team. It's not like he had Pip as an instant impact player either. And lets not pretend that Pip was lighting the world on fire, considering it still took 4 seasons for him to truly become an impact player.

Youngsters bitch and moan constantly about how Lebron "had no help in Cleveland" as a way to excuse his early years, yet can't seem to do the same for Jordan for strange reason. In other words, ISH gonna ISH like it has for 5 years plus.

:rolleyes:
i think that is more to do with the fact that these Jordan mythologists continuously say that lebron should have stayed in cleveland.
Jordan might have left cleveland even if he had better teams than lebron had because Jordan liked to do things off the court that are just not possible in cleveland.

[guy]

The whole "player X didn't do this without player Y" argument is so ridiculously stupid and overboard. It ruins discussions like this. Yes, Jordan didn't really accomplish much without Pippen. He also played the vast majority of his career without Pippen and the years they didn't play together was either early in his career i.e. less leadership, experience, maturity, drafted to a lottery franchise that had little experience building a contender or very late in his career i.e. old as shit, clearly past his prime. Is the argument supposed to be that because of that observation that if Pippen never came then Jordan would've been leading his teams to 8th seeds his entire career? :oldlol:

Not just Jordan. Take Shaq for example. He did have his most success while playing with Kobe. In fact, he only played 8 seasons with Kobe, and played 11 other seasons without him. So did the success Shaq gain on the Lakers the result of just Kobe? And is it just a coincidence that the majority of Shaq's physical peak/prime was during those years and it had nothing to do with their success?

This whole argument is stupid. The implication is that they couldn't get the same success or better in any other way. You guys realize how ridiculous that is? Do the math. There's literally billions of different teammate/coach combinations a star player could play under for their entire career. So the thought that these players got to actually play with the only combination that would've gotten them the success they had is comical.

[K Xerxes]

I bet most of the idiots saying this shit wouldn't know who Orlando Woolridge was without googling his name. That crackhead was the second option in the mid 80s. :lol

[ImKobe]

Eastern Conference was tougher in the 80s + the supporting cast and the coach MJ had weren't as good. The triangle was a much better system that was built around MJ's skillset, Pippen was also brought up on it so they were much successful, which is why the Bulls also won 55 games in 94, Pippen could run the tri like MJ to a certain extent, he just wasn't as good of a scorer and an athlete, though he was close.

Pippen is a top 50 player all-time, of course MJ had more success with a top 50 all-time HOFer than without and of course he had more success with Phil than without him. Plus, MJ was a better player in the 90s.

It's tough to win anything in the 80s Eastern Conference when your 2 best supporting players are Oakley(1 all-star appearance for his entire career, and it wasn't on the Bulls) and Paxson(7 ppg 4 apg career player)..
MJ did win 50 games in 88, when Pippen was a 20 mpg role player and Bulls added Grant & Vincent to their roster, he just needed a decent enough supporting cast like any other superstar did.

[f0und]

this thread comes down to this. the people arguing against jordan are people who didnt see jordan play in his prime and are just trying to revise history,

remember that thread a few weeks ago that asked those who saw jordan, kobe, durant, and bron in their primes, who between them was the better player. among the people who qualified, it was an unsurprisingly unanimous decision for jordan. of course you still had the young know nothing stans that tried to hijack the thread but they were easily spotted and disregarded.

[TheMan]

this thread comes down to this. the people arguing against jordan are people who didnt see jordan play in his prime and are just trying to revise history,

remember that thread a few weeks ago that asked those who saw jordan, kobe, durant, and bron in their primes, who between them was the better player. among the people who qualified, it was an unsurprisingly unanimous decision for jordan. of course you still had the young know nothing stans that tried to hijack the thread but they were easily spotted and disregarded.

Yeah and their favorite line is that we're nostalgic, lol. As if we're these senior citizens reminiscing about the old days:facepalm

It ain't nothing like that, Jordan was just clearly superior to those other three, all great players but they were never or have been on MJ's level.

[f0und]

Yeah and their favorite line is that we're nostalgic, lol. As if we're these senior citizens reminiscing about the old days:facepalm

It ain't nothing like that, Jordan was just clearly superior to those other three, all great players but they were never or have been on MJ's level.

and its not like everyone who voted in favor of jordan were jordan stans. stans, haters, neutral fans, everyone that saw him play had the same opinion.

[atljonesbro]

this thread comes down to this. the people arguing against jordan are people who didnt see jordan play in his prime and are just trying to revise history,

remember that thread a few weeks ago that asked those who saw jordan, kobe, durant, and bron in their primes, who between them was the better player. among the people who qualified, it was an unsurprisingly unanimous decision for jordan. of course you still had the young know nothing stans that tried to hijack the thread but they were easily spotted and disregarded.
This thread had nothing to do with any of those other players. Wow the insecurity of you Jordan stans is out of hand.

[TheMan]

and its not like everyone who voted in favor of jordan were jordan stans. stans, haters, neutral fans, everyone that saw him play had the same opinion.
Yeah, plenty of Knicks, older Heat fans, Pacers, Pistons, Lakers etc fans clearly voted for MJ. And these are fans who have every right to 'hate' Jordan.

[f0und]

This thread had nothing to do with any of those other players. Wow the insecurity of you Jordan stans is out of hand.

i know that. i was just referencing an old thread to make my point about how the only detractors here are the ones that didnt see jordan play.

[JUDGE WITNESS]

making playoffs in an 11 team conference with 30 wins :lol so tough doe

[dreamwarrior]

Frankly he was too good. The whole team relied on Jordan. Pippen was the first guy on the team willing to be the second superstar. The same thing happened to Wilt. Wilt was an all around player who cared about making his team better. He tried to get his teammates involved but his teammates put it all on his shoulders instead. Look at what happened when Kobe came back last year. He was basically playing pg but the team couldn't win because they kept passing the ball back to him.

[Sarcastic]

how was that unfortunate? he could have won a few games more and could have avoided them. no 7/8th seed is unfortunate to face 1/2nd seed. They can make their luck in the regular season.

ISH, where teams don't matter and players can win games by themselves.

[bizil]

Because it's a TEAM SPORT that's WHY! Jordan came of age in the golden era of the NBA. When Magic and Bird were at their peaks and you had dominant bigs all over the place. Once Pippen came around they presented something teams had never seen before. Two freak athletic wings at 6'6 and up who can play and defend PG, SG, and SF. And in Pip's case PF. They represented the new breed of perimeter superstars along with Drexler. They combined the athletic ability of Dr.J with the all around skills of the guys like Big O, Bird, Magic, Barry, and Hondo. So having two of the three guys who REALLY revolutionized the sport like that on the same team was EPIC!!

[97 bulls]

Because it's a TEAM SPORT that's WHY! Jordan came of age in the golden era of the NBA. When Magic and Bird were their peaks and you had dominant bigs all over the place. Once Pippen came around they presented something teams had never seen before. Two freak athletic wings at 6'6 and up who can play and defend PG, SG, and SF. And in Pip's case PF. They represented the new breed of perimeter superstars along with Drexler. They combined the athletic ability of Dr.J with the all around skills of the guys like Big O, Bird, Magic, Barry, and Hondo. So having two of the three guys who REALLY revolutionized the sport like that on the same team was EPIC!!
Wow. Beautiful post Biz

[mark henson 123]

he stunk with in 1989 and 1990 even when he had pippen:biggums:
before phil came
he wouldn't won anything if it weren't for phil!

[RealSkipBayless]

Anyone figure this out?

[72-10]

4 of the 5 best teams in the league played in the East.

[SpaceJam2]

He is a one way player, scorer like Iverson, Derozan, Melo. He lacked a defensive anchor in Pippen and could not win until he got one to do all the things he was just okay at (defense, rebounding, play making, etc).

[3ball]

If young Lebron or Giannis were put back into the 80's, would their no-star casts bully the dynasty Celtics and Bad Boys for 60 wins and the 1 seed like they did in 2009 and 2019?

Not a chance, obviously - their teams wouldn't even win 50 games back then, which is what MJ did with 8-point Pippen in 1988, let alone 20-point all-stars like Middleton or 18-point all-stars like Mo and Zydrunas..

Of course, their games aren't even suited for packed paints (midrange), so they would struggle and probably miss the playoffs like both did their first few years

[InnerZen]

Man these LeBron obsessed people really make some weird threads on this site.

[Da_Realist]

Man these LeBron obsessed people really make some weird threads on this site.

These dudes are lame but they are probably worse in real life. That's why they don't mind coming on here making fools of themselves. It's a step up. Plus it gives them the attention they don't get in real life.

[SpaceJam2]

He is a one way player, scorer like Iverson, Derozan, Melo. He lacked a defensive anchor in Pippen and could not win until he got one to do all the things he was just okay at (defense, rebounding, play making, etc).


/thread

[yeaaaman]

I can't believe this thread is this long.

To me it's simple, when you start putting qualifiers on why somebody won 6 titles, you've already lost whatever argument you're trying to make.

I don't understand why people are upset he won 6 times, three-peating twice showing a level of dominance that is basically unprecedented in the modern NBA.

[SpaceJam2]

I can't believe this thread is this long.

To me it's simple, when you start putting qualifiers on why somebody won 6 titles, you've already lost whatever argument you're trying to make.

I don't understand why people are upset he won 6 times, three-peating twice showing a level of dominance that is basically unprecedented in the modern NBA.

Yes, it is simple. He was 1 for 10 (1-9) until Along Came Pippen, saving his fragile career, while he was playing in weak, watered down expansion era against literal grocery baggers and mechanics, with Nike and David Stern manipulating rules for him to win, AND he still managed to beat zero dynasty teams in the Finals. What was MJ's best Finals win? Thanks for playing.

[yeaaaman]

Yes, it is simple. He was 1 for 10 (1-9) until Along Came Pippen, saving his fragile career, while he was playing in weak, watered down expansion era against literal grocery baggers and mechanics, with Nike and David Stern manipulating rules for him to win, AND he still managed to beat zero dynasty teams in the Finals. What was MJ's best Finals win? Thanks for playing.

Lol, anything else you'd like to add? I applaud your tenacity in this, takes a special and dedicated person. Merry Christmas :applause: