Jordan vs all time bigs

[moe94]

If Jordan is considered the absolute best perimeter player, which bigs, if any, would you rather have to start a team?

[andgar923]

Dwight Howard

[inclinerator]

serge ibaka

[sportjames23]

If Jordan is considered the absolute best perimeter player, which bigs, if any, would you rather have to start a team?


If--IF--I was gonna pick a big over MJ to start a team, I'd pick one of these three:

Hakeem
Kareem
Shaq

[Fudge]

Shaq
Duncan
MAYBE Hakeem

[Milbuck]

Shaq and Kareem. Hakeem's close, but I'd still take MJ.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Wilt,Shaq and maybe KAJ

[bukowski81]

Perkins

[Marchesk]

How can you pick Hakeem over Kareem? I don't get it. Or Duncan.

[bizil]

If--IF--I was gonna pick a big over MJ to start a team, I'd pick one of these three:

Hakeem
Kareem
Shaq

I agree with those three. I would also throw Wilt and Duncan in there too. In terms of the guys like Robinson and Ewing, they weren't quite as dominant on the block, but they are capable of the same numbers. So I don't think I would choose them over MJ. My sleeper pick to consider would be a peak Bill Walton though!

[K Xerxes]

I would pick no player over Jordan. Weaknesses for all of them at some level. MJ had none. Physically, skillfully, or mentally. The rest of the field has something that eventually holds them back.

This.

If I was forced to pick a big, it would be Hakeem. Shaq's peak was higher, but Hakeem gives you all time great defense for more than a decade. Duncan is like a slightly worse version of Hakeem offensively and defensively. Won't comment on Kareem, Wilt or Russell as I didn't see them.

[DonDadda59]

I would pick no player over Jordan. Weaknesses for all of them at some level. MJ had none. Physically, skillfully, or mentally. The rest of the field has something that eventually holds them back.

Perfect example- 1996

Jordan leads the Bulls to a record 72 wins, gets MVP, finals MVP. And this was the top 5 PPG leaders that season (and his competition):

1) Michael Jordan- 30.6
2) Hakeem Olajuwon- 26.9
3) Shaquille O'Neal- 26.6
4) Karl Malone- 25.7
5) David Robinson- 25

^One of a kind. 4 all time great bigs but only one GOAT.

[sdot_thadon]

Shaq
Wilt
Kareem
Hakeem

Really depends on era though. Pre 90s I'm taking all of those guys before Mj. 90s I'm only taking Shaq or Kareem. Current game I'm inclined to say I'd take them all as well. Just because of how weak the center position is right now. Oh and every player has weaknesses guys.

[ralph_i_el]

matt bonner.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Roy Hibbert

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Kareem-Abdul Jabbar. GOAT big man.


Longevity, hard work, top 3 GOAT scorer.


Shaq's too lazy and takes regular seasons off. And his longevity was not as good as Kareem's.

[r0drig0lac]

russell possibly, maybe wilt, and no one else

[jongib369]

Wilt and Kareem for sure, wouldn't even hesitate....Lot's of people talk about Kareems longevity but I have to say, Wilt looked like he could of played at a higher level than Kareem did had he stayed in as long...But that's a what if

http://www.fopsobserver.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/2dqttet.jpg


Possibly Shaq and Olajuwon also. As much as I love Jordan, he was my childhood favorite and is either my favorite or second today...But I value Centers more than any other position....Wouldn't necessarily say someone would be wrong for picking him over the guys I listed, it's ****ing Michael Jordan you can't really go wrong.... But big men are easier to build around....And in todays era, if you have a GOAT big man Idk how you're going to lose even if the rules are "smallball favored "

[ArbitraryWater]

But let's be honest here:

I don't get how people would rather built around/draft someone over Jordan, yet say Jordan's the GOAT...

When we go the drafting route, we are basically assuming the player to have a long, healthy, and "fair" career... and THIS is who I want to go with... So with identical situations/circumstances on both sides, equally beneficially suited to the players game, people would take someone else over Jordan?

For me that's a clear case of using variables/hypotheticals, which should definitely play a role in one's criteria... the reason those players didn't have as much as success as Jordan, would be that their career paths didn't pan out that way, due to teammates, bad luck, or whatever... if you say that's NOT the case, and they had the same chances as Jordan to win titles with similar help, then why pick the inferior player who won less with similar help/opportunities to win?

[Marchesk]

I don't get how people would rather built around/draft someone over Jordan, yet say Jordan's the GOAT...

Well, it's two things. You can have Jordan as the best all-time, but still think that a great big has more overall impact than a great perimeter player. Secondly, this is the era of athletic, good to great perimiter players. What's lacking is dominant bigs. So the skill and athletic gap between Jordan and other perimeter players will be less than that between Shaq and other bigs.


For me that's a clear case of using variables/hypotheticals, which should definitely play a role in one's criteria... the reason those players didn't have as much as success as Jordan, would be that their career paths didn't pan out that way, due to teammates, bad luck, or whatever...

Kareem had as much success as Jordan and then there's Russell. Some make the argument that Wilt had bad luck in his career with coaching and injuries to teammates in key playoff series. And Shaq was pretty damn successful himself.

Hakeem's Rockets were championship contenders before the Bulls, but Sampson couldn't stay healthy. Imagine if Pippen had his career shortened with injuries just as the Bulls were reading to win titles.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Peak - Shaq, Kareem or Wilt (I'd even consider Bird but I wouldn't really call him a big, even being more of a PF)

Career - I'd only consider Kareem






How can you pick Hakeem over Kareem? I don't get it. Or Duncan.

Agreed

[ArbitraryWater]

Well, it's two things. You can have Jordan as the best all-time, but still think that a great big has more overall impact than a great perimeter player. Secondly, this is the era of athletic, good to great perimiter players. What's lacking is dominant bigs. So the skill and athletic gap between Jordan and other perimeter players will be less than that between Shaq and other bigs.



Kareem had as much success as Jordan and then there's Russell. Some make the argument that Wilt had bad luck in his career with coaching and injuries to teammates in key playoff series. And Shaq was pretty damn successful himself.

Hakeem's Rockets were championship contenders before the Bulls, but Sampson couldn't stay healthy. Imagine if Pippen had his career shortened with injuries just as the Bulls were reading to win titles.

Oh, well Russell did have more success.. but I'm talking about carrying the same amount of weight in order to win.

IMO, Jordan/Kareem/LeBron/Shaq/etc. did a lot more when they won.

So if you think Wilt had bad luck, then why discredit him? In a hypothetical on a equally good team than MJ's, or no bad luck, would he win more? If thats your opinion, surely you should have him as GOAT.

And Kareem really didnt win as much.. no factor in the last 2.

NOBODY, carried a team to 6 titles like MJ did.

[Marchesk]

There's a lot of contigency in sports. If Oscar begins his career with Kareem like Magic did, then we might have him rated where Magic is now, and Kareem would most likely have several more titles in the 70s. Seriously. And then we might be saying Kareem 8 > Jordan 6 (assuming he still goes to the Lakers). They were winning 60+ games together with Oscar in his 30s.

Edit: admittedly, that's not really a fair argument, because if Jordan (or Lebron) had the fortune of Bird or Magic when he was drafted, his teams might have been winning titles right off the bat.

[Marchesk]

So if you think Wilt had bad luck, then why discredit him? In a hypothetical on a equally good team than MJ's, or no bad luck, would he win more? If thats your opinion, surely you should have him as GOAT.

You can only go by how they did, not what might have been, although it's interesting to speculate. But if I'm drafting one player from history out of college/high school, then I'm taking that into account.

As for Kareem, fair enough. That's why I have him at 2. But I'm still picking him before Jordan, Lebron, Magic, Bird in a fantasy draft. Kareem was already great coming out of college.

[Marchesk]

Oh, well Russell did have more success.. but I'm talking about carrying the same amount of weight in order to win.

True, Russell had a very stacked team. The thing is we don't really know with him. He was a winner in college too. What if Russell was really special that way? But he only played for the Celtics dynasty. It's hard to know how much of that was him, and how much of that was having a lot of talent with a great coach. But there have been talented teams which didn't always win. So ...