Better Finals performer--Kobe or Lebron?

[sportjames23]

Who you got?

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron. The dude is fvckin UNSTOPPABLE !

[Ne 1]

Kobe. He's 5 out of 7 in the Finals, has only had 1 series I'd call poor and 1 series I'd call sub-par, and although sub-par, he still made a big contribution in a critical game and they won the series, plus he was injured.

[SilkkTheShocker]

LeBron.

His Game 7 alone last year shits on anything Kobe has done in the playoffs.

[Im Still Ballin]

LeBron.

His Game 7 alone last year shits on anything Kobe has done in the playoffs.
THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS.

[fiddy]

ATM Kobe, in futre who knows


LeBron.

His Game 7 alone last year shits on anything Kobe has done in the playoffs.
that desperation :roll:

[Im Still Ballin]

ATM Kobe, in futre who knows


that desperation :roll:
LOL.

LeBEASTmode James > Kobe.

Own it little man.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Kobe. He's 5 out of 7 in the Finals, has only had 1 series I'd call poor and 1 series I'd call sub-par, and although sub-par, he still made a big contribution in a critical game and they won the series, plus he was injured.

He was the best player on his team for only 3 of those Finals. And was arguably outplayed by Gasol in 2010. And 2004 wasn't just poor, it was one of the most selfish displays of play in NBA history. NO ONE had the Pistons winning. It was a gigantic upset. 2004 is a black mark on his career like LeBron's 2011. But calling it "poor" isn't doing it justice.

[SilkkTheShocker]

ATM Kobe, in futre who knows


that desperation :roll:

How is it desperation? His Game 7 is one of the best in NBA history. Hell, the year before he closed out the Finals with a triple double. What signature Finals moments does Kobe have? Signature playoff moments alone for him are a minimum.

[Andrei89]

Is this really a question?

[sportjames23]

This isn't about how many rings either one has. It's about who has played better in the Finals.

[IllegalD]

The one who didn't singlehandedly contribute to his team being on the losing end to the greatest NBA Finals upset of all time with no injury excuse (like the 04 Lakers had with Malone) and all their all-star players in their prime.

The one who faced/beat the 2010 (facing 4 HOFs and one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history) which is superior to any Finals team that LeBron has faced in the Finals. The 2013 Spurs are more historically relevant/successful, but they haven't won a championship since 2007, and their transcendent star (Duncan) was way past his prime.

The one who won 5 out of 7 finals with only one other HOF-caliber teammate at the same time.

The one who isn't one more finals loss away from having a losing finals record.

[fiddy]

LOL.

LeBEASTmode James > Kobe.

Own it little man.
LeRefs aka LeCollusion lmao gtfo son

[IllegalD]

How is it desperation? His Game 7 is one of the best in NBA history. Hell, the year before he closed out the Finals with a triple double. What signature Finals moments does Kobe have? Signature playoff moments alone for him are a minimum.

Kobe Takes Over vs Pacers
Game 4, 2000 Finals vs Pacers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSdhzK-ud3U

#58 on NBA's 60 Greatest Playoff Moments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J60b5Pyudc4

Top 6 Playoff Drama: Individual on TNT's All-Decade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP7NA-4oi1I

[annbafan]

Kobe, if speaking of finals ONLY. Perhaps Lebron is a bit better in the previous stages of playoffs, but it's close.

[Jameerthefear]

Lebron. It isn't even close. Kobe sucks at the biggest stage.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Easily Lebron. Kobe has been terrible in 5 out of his 7 finals. Really puts it in perspective how good Kobe's teams were when you realize he still ended up winning in those Finals 5 times.

[Warfan]

Honestly both have underperformed in the finals and have had their choke jobs. But atleast bran can improve his finals resume.

[IllegalD]

Kobe 40, 8, and 8, 2 steals, 2 blocks on 47% shooting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgAkvWdAGtU

19 points in the 3rd quarter (2nd only to Isiah's 25 record)

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dime-090605

Bryant became only the fourth player to have a 40/8/8 (points/rebounds/assists) in an NBA Finals game, joining Jerry West (1969), Michael Jordan (1993) and Shaquille O'Neal (1992).


LeBron has never even cleared 40 in the finals, and that's with having the luxury of being the man on his team since he came into the league, vs Kobe who had to share the spotlight with Shaq for the first 7 seasons of his career.

[IllegalD]

I also forgot.

The one who's FG% doesn't drop by double-digit figures from the regular season to the Finals.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

LeBron has never even cleared 40 in the finals, and that's with having the luxury of being the man on his team since he came into the league, vs Kobe who had to share the spotlight with Shaq for the first 7 seasons of his career.

Well we all saw what happens in the Finals when Kobe tried to be the man in 2004. Let's just say it wasn't pretty.

[sbw19]

Both had their up and downs in the Finals. But I'd take Kobe's overall, despite his 2004 performance. He never got outscored in his prime by a role-player because he was scared of the moment (that alone should put him ahead of LeBron in my book.) He never lost in the Finals after taking a lead. And he never had a Finals series where he failed to have at least one 25+ point game.


Kobe's Finals record: 23 wins 14 losses (.62), won 5 Finals series lost 2

LeBron's Finals record: 10 wins 12 losses (.45), won 2 Finals series lost 2

[IllegalD]

Well we all saw what happens in the Finals when Kobe tried to be the man in 2004. Let's just say it wasn't pretty.

Well we all saw what happens in the Finals when LeBron doesn't have the balls to be the man in 2011. Let's just say it was uglier than any chucking Kobe did in 04. Id rather my star player lose gunning like Kobe than lose not even trying like LeBron in 2011.

[Magic 32]

Good finals games by Lebron outside the 2012 finals.....

Game 1 vs Mavs (2011)
Game 3 vs Spurs (2013) + 9 points via statpadding
Game 7 vs Spurs (2013)

The rest are flawed or just terrible.

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Well we all saw what happens in the Finals when LeBron doesn't have the balls to be the man in 2011. Let's just say it was uglier than any chucking Kobe did in 04. Id rather my star player lose gunning like Kobe than lose not even trying like LeBron in 2011.

So what you're implying is that Lebron doesn't play well in the sidekick role. That he needs to be the man. And it's the opposite for Kobe?

I agree.

[K Xerxes]

Good finals games by Lebron outside the 2012 finals.....

Game 1 vs Mavs (2011)
Game 3 vs Spurs (2013) + 9 points via statpadding
Game 7 vs Spurs (2013)

The rest are flawed or just terrible.

Where is the logic in discounting an entire finals where he played well?

[Jlamb47]

Kobe
How Is Lebron Better Then Kobe In The Finals And Lebron Owns 2 Chokes? I Know Kobe Is 5/7 But Thats Better Then 2/4
When Lebron Winning Percentage In The Finals Is Higher Then 50 Percent Then I Might Consider Him
But Kobe Is Clearly The Better Finals Performer

[PJR]

Wade

Correct.

[Relinquish]

Kobe
How Is Lebron Better Then Kobe In The Finals And Lebron Owns 2 Chokes? I Know Kobe Is 5/7 But Thats Better Then 2/4
When Lebron Winning Percentage In The Finals Is Higher Then 50 Percent Then I Might Consider Him
But Kobe Is Clearly The Better Finals Performer

Since when is getting swept by a clearly superior team when he's 22 a choke?

ISH, where people are idiots. :facepalm

:hammerhead:

[Jlamb47]

Since when is getting swept by a clearly superior team when he's 22 a choke?

ISH, where people are idiots. :facepalm

:hammerhead:


yal acting like kobe was a sidekick
when he was 22 he was putting up 30 7 6 in the playoffs
okay fine he got swepted it wasnt a choke
whats ur excuse for 2011?

[Jlamb47]

Since when is getting swept by a clearly superior team when he's 22 a choke?

ISH, where people are idiots. :facepalm

:hammerhead:

jan 2014 1500 post??
get out the house bro

[Relinquish]

yal acting like kobe was a sidekick
when he was 22 he was putting up 30 7 6 in the playoffs
okay fine he got swepted it wasnt a choke
whats ur excuse for 2011?

I'm not even a Lebron stan, and I'm not making excuses. I never said Kobe was a sidekick for the first 3 rings like idiots on here have said, but in the 2000 finals he was most certainly a sidekick and that is not debatable. Lebron choked in 2011 because he shot too little, but Kobe choked just as much in 2004 because he shot too much. It goes both ways: If your team is stacked and you played miserably, you choked. It doesn't matter how you choked if you choked. :confusedshrug:

[Element]

Is this thread for real?

LeBron in last year's Finals wasn't even better than Kobe against the Celtics in 2010, 6-24 included :lol

Kobe was scoring very efficiently through the first 6 games, 29.5 ppg @ 56 TS%, against a Celtics defense geared to stop him, and only him. Doc Rivers even admitted that the reason the other Laker players were getting open shots was because of Kobe's presence on the floor...yes, he had an awful Game 7. But he absolutely locked down Rondo (who had been the Celtics best player prior to that series) while playing great help defense on KG.

Meanwhile LeBron let Danny Green torch his team and did nothing to stop him. Once Green was missing his shots LeBron was already covering TP, so he had nothing to do with that. It was a collective effort by the Heat to force Green to put the ball on the floor or shoot over the top. Bron DID play great defense on TP but fwiw it was only two games and Parker was clearly injured. He was also straight invisible on the offensive end for three straight games, while notriously stat padding once Pop had pulled out his starters for good (Game 2, Game 4 are basically statpadding 101 lessons). A great game 4 (though Wade was the best player on the floor), another 2011 Mavs type performance in Game 5....up until the 4th quarter of Game 6.

The rest is history. LeBron was visibily shaken during the early parts of the series, performed well below superstar expectations and padded his stats when he was up 17 with him being the only Big 3 member of either team on the floor. And let's not forget...he was being invited to shoot practice jumpers :oldlol: . Can anyone imagine Kobe not dropping 45+ ppg being defended the way LeBron was?


Imo this is the ranking of their Finals performances as the man...(07 excluded obviously)

09 Kobe
12 LeBron
10 Kobe
13 LeBron
08 Kobe
04 Kobe
11 LeBron

Kobe's three-peat series are all clearly below 2012 LeBron and his own 2010 and 2009 Finals series. However, the "defensive attention" argument has no value when discussing 13 LeBron for obvious reasons (if people need a reminder of "why" they should probably stop box-score watching). Imo 2013 LeBron was a more valubale/better performance than 01/02 Kobe because his peaks were much better (Game 6, Game 7 both with extreme pressure), but overall there's not a whole lot of seperation.

[tmacattack33]

Kobe. He's 5 out of 7 in the Finals, has only had 1 series I'd call poor and 1 series I'd call sub-par, and although sub-par, he still made a big contribution in a critical game and they won the series, plus he was injured.


:oldlol:

I don't even have to look this up, it's just off the top of my head but he's had at least three bad series:

1. vs Detroit when he had Malone/Payton and Shaq playing well but chucked the ball up about 25 times a game at a .350 clip

2. vs Boston 2008 when Ray and Tony Allen made him an inefficient chucker (once again)

3. vs Indiana in 2000, he was hardly used much, and was injured for a game but they still won that game




And two mediocre/subpar series:

1. The infamous series where he stole Finals MVP from Gasol and went 6-24 in Game 7

2. Against Philly in 2001, I don't remember anything great from him. I think it was mediocre as far as I remember (don't get mad if I am slightly off here, I'm just going off the top of my head)

And I don't really even remember the Nets series...I hardly watched that one, we all knew what was going to happen



So really his only good/great performance was vs the Magic around 5 years ago.

[Dresta]

The one who didn't singlehandedly contribute to his team being on the losing end to the greatest NBA Finals upset of all time with no injury excuse (like the 04 Lakers had with Malone) and all their all-star players in their prime.

The one who faced/beat the 2010 (facing 4 HOFs and one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history) which is superior to any Finals team that LeBron has faced in the Finals. The 2013 Spurs are more historically relevant/successful, but they haven't won a championship since 2007, and their transcendent star (Duncan) was way past his prime.

The one who won 5 out of 7 finals with only one other HOF-caliber teammate at the same time.

The one who isn't one more finals loss away from having a losing finals record.Sounds like Kobe and the Lakers in 04 to me. lol @ using an ancient Karl Malone injury as an excuse when that team had prime Kobe and prime Shaq. If Kobe was anything like as good as people like you make him out to be then that 04 finals was the biggest upset of all time (two top-10 players of all time in their prime losing to a Pistons team without even a top 50 player).

Oh, yeah, and that Boston team in 10 was so hard to score against, as Wade showed in his first round performance against them, and both Wade and Bron showed with their combined demolition of the Celtics team in 11, the very season after Kobe struggled so badly (11 Celtics were a better defensive team than 10 Celtics if you go by the numbers as well).

Dat greatest defense in history:

http://i61.tinypic.com/289c0ew.png

:bowdown:

I guess Miami is one of the greatest offensive teams in NBA history then, at least that's what your logic dictates.

[Bandito]

I would say Lebron. Kobe best games in the playoffs came in the western conference finals where he would just destroy the competition. But I like how in this thread Lebron stans are putting Kobe like he was a scrub...

[JUDGE WITNESS]

both better than mj

[Element]

Oh, yeah, and that Boston team in 10 was so hard to score against, as Wade showed in his first round performance against them, and both Wade and Bron showed with their combined demolition of the Celtics team in 11, the very season after Kobe struggled so badly (11 Celtics were a better defensive team than 10 Celtics if you go by the numbers as well).

Dat greatest defense in history:

http://i61.tinypic.com/289c0ew.png

:bowdown:

I guess Miami is one of the greatest offensive teams in NBA history then, at least that's what your logic dictates.


Too bad it doesn't work that way. Wade was being left on an island and with space and the Celtics shut down his supporting cast (2010). That's what Orlando did to the Cavs in 09 also. Yes, Wade went ballistic but that was the game plan...let him get his. Kobe's team was good enough where if they defended him that way the offense would still have found a way to beat the Celtics...

you don't want to deal with an efficient 30+ ppg series from Bryant because shutting down Pau Gasol and co. is a different kind of animal than shutting down Michael Beasley and Mario Chalmers. Kobe's supporting cast would still be good enough to muster enough points to win if the Celts had let him go off. It's just strategy. And also nice way to randomly bring in D-Wade and ignore that LeBron choked worse than Kobe in 2010, against the same Celtics team.

And oh yeah...those Celtics played like a -9 defense in the playoffs. They were at around -4 in the RS I believe. They were not AT ALL the same team that coasted during the RS. Rondo was beast in the 2010 playoffs also.

It's like trying to say the 2013 RS Heat were the same team that Indiana took to 7 games...they weren't. Wade was hobbled and Bosh sucked. You can't just look at numbers and say "that series shouldn't have been close", which a 13 Heat vs 13 Pacers numbers comparison would indicate.

[sportjames23]

both better than mj


Even the worst Bran and Kobe stans don't think this.

[tpols]

W/o a lucky shot from Ray Allen Bran would be 1 for 4 in the Finals with 2 legendary chokejobs..


So Ill take Kobe.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

LEBron and its not even remotely close.
LeBron is also already better alltime than Kobe

[gts]

Too bad it doesn't work that way. It does if you never watched the games, ignore what players, coaches, scouts and other experts who know the game inside out have to say and just look at the stats :lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

W/o a lucky shot from Ray Allen Bran would be 1 for 4 in the Finals with 2 legendary chokejobs..


So Ill take Kobe.

All tpols arguments are based on hypotheticals and what if scenarios. Dude is a ****ing clown :lol

[tpols]

Kobe Takes Over vs Pacers
Game 4, 2000 Finals vs Pacers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSdhzK-ud3U

#58 on NBA's 60 Greatest Playoff Moments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J60b5Pyudc4

Top 6 Playoff Drama: Individual on TNT's All-Decade:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP7NA-4oi1I

Yup.. Kobe's clutch. He isnt a choker on the level of Lebron James. Even in that terrible detroit series I think he hit a GW.

I think everyone can see Lebron has had more impact as far as stats and numbers go.. but he has cancelled them out partly with his enormous penchant for choking. Even in 2011 he shot 49% If I can remember.. his efficiency was never bad, it was just that he would remove himself from the game at critical junctions and allow his team to go under, but only when he was in the Finals.

He plays the bulls and pacers great, then sucks against dallas(choke) and for first 5-6 games against the spurs he does the same thing.. goes from 30-8-8 on pacers to like 23/8/7 to start half the SA series all because he was afraid to shoot. Against Dallas he was afraid to do anything, and against SA the first time he just got destroyed(although it was somewhat understandable).

But thats 3 out of 4 Finals where hes played like shit for his standards while playing all the previous rounds much better.

[Mr Feeny]

This isn't about how many rings either one has. It's about who has played better in the Finals.
This, and its definitely not the guy who averages 40% shooting in NBA finals games.

[Jlamb47]

:bowdown:
Yup.. Kobe's clutch. He isnt a choker on the level of Lebron James. Even in that terrible detroit series I think he hit a GW.

I think everyone can see Lebron has had more impact as far as stats and numbers go.. but he has cancelled them out partly with his enormous penchant for choking. Even in 2011 he shot 49% If I can remember.. his efficiency was never bad, it was just that he would remove himself from the game at critical junctions and allow his team to go under, but only when he was in the Finals.

He plays the bulls and pacers great, then sucks against dallas(choke) and for first 5-6 games against the spurs he does the same thing.. goes from 30-8-8 on pacers to like 23/8/7 to start half the SA series all because he was afraid to shoot. Against Dallas he was afraid to do anything, and against SA the first time he just got destroyed(although it was somewhat understandable).

But thats 3 out of 4 Finals where hes played like shit for his standards while playing all the previous rounds much better.


I been saying this
Lebron is 1/4 in the finals
Ray allen saved him lol
Only player who goes form dominating to being a regular player in the finals
and then dosnt show up when it matters.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Yup.. Kobe's clutch. He isnt a choker on the level of Lebron James. Even in that terrible detroit series I think he hit a GW.

I think everyone can see Lebron has had more impact as far as stats and numbers go.. but he has cancelled them out partly with his enormous penchant for choking. Even in 2011 he shot 49% If I can remember.. his efficiency was never bad, it was just that he would remove himself from the game at critical junctions and allow his team to go under, but only when he was in the Finals.

He plays the bulls and pacers great, then sucks against dallas(choke) and for first 5-6 games against the spurs he does the same thing.. goes from 30-8-8 on pacers to like 23/8/7 to start half the SA series all because he was afraid to shoot. Against Dallas he was afraid to do anything, and against SA the first time he just got destroyed(although it was somewhat understandable).

But thats 3 out of 4 Finals where hes played like shit for his standards while playing all the previous rounds much better.
LeBron is ten times as clutch as chokebe tho and every statistic proves this.
Kobe is one of the biggest chokers on playoff game winners and game tying shots in NBA history

[Ne 1]

Easily Lebron.


How so? He's currently 2/4 in the Finals and if you break down his Finals so far, it's a stretch to say he's eaisly been eaisly better than Kobe.

2007 vs Spurs: His team was swept, but it's not really the fact that he lost that series, but that he performed so far below what you would have expected from him. He averaged 22/7/7, but he shot 35% from the field, 20% on 3's and 69% from the line while averaging 6 turnovers per game and on 23 shots per game. That's horrendous for a player of James' caliber. Although I do give him somewhat of a pass for losing since nobody really expected the Cavs to beat the Spurs, but if he even played a little bit better, the series would have been closer, specifically in Game's 3 and 4, it would have been 2-2 going to Cleveland. It's a black mark on his resume in a way not because he lost, but because of how poorly he played by his standards even back then. Although I don't really judge him based on that too much because he wasn't in his prime yet. Part of that was him being exposed as a terrible shooter. (For the entire season, he shot just 34.6% from 16-23 feet, 31.9% on 3s and 69.8% from the line.)

2011 vs Mavs: This was by far the most perplexing Finals performance we've ever seen from a player of Lebron's caliber. He basically checked out after Game 2, became a mental midget and stopped playing the way that had helped Miami roll through the playoffs. Miami was heavily favored to win and LeBron was so bad that it actually cost his team the championship. It's not just like he played sub-par or something...he was so bad that people, to this day, still can't really figure it out. He wasn't playing injured. He literally went ghost on both ends of the floor. It looked like he just curled up, went into an shell and shut it down after Wade yelled at him in Game 3. There's just no legit reason for LeBron at that point of his career to get outplayed by a bench player other than he either choked badly or he intentionally threw the series for some unknown reason. (Some people point out that he started playing poorly after Wade yelled at him.) Kidd and Marion's defensive effort deserve some credit I suppose, but you would think he was being guarded by peak Payton and peak Pippen on steroids. Just an incredibly dreadful performance by a player with top 5 all-time potential in his prime that will be hard to ignore.

2012 vs Thunder: Excellent all around series from LeBron, and the Heat won in a backdoor sweep of course. Statistically up there with some of the all-time greatest Finals performances.

2013 vs Spurs: He was underwhelming by his standards for the vast majority of this series. Played unassertive and passive. I don't think it's unfair to say he was pretty much an afterthought for the most part in the series until the 4th quarter of Game 6 where he was money (until the last minute, where he was bailed out by offensive boards and Ray Allen of course). He was lights out in Game 7 however, so considering he stepped up in the 4th quarter of Game 6 and in Game 7, and the Heat won the series, I think it's fair to say it's not really a big deal in terms of his legacy.




Kobe has been terrible in 5 out of his 7 finals.


:oldlol: He has 1 Finals you can fairly asses as playing terrible. (2004 vs Pistons)



Really puts it in perspective how good Kobe's teams were when you realize he still ended up winning in those Finals 5 times.

Well the 2009/2010 Lakers were a traditional style championship team, with one superstar, a great All-Star sidekick, and varied contributions from good role players in the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less. The 3-peat Lakers won off the strength of their 2 stars. Those teams were not very talented outside of Shaq and Kobe, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. Even the WCF against Portland in 2000 the Blazers were called "too deep" due to their ridiculous depth and talent, while the Lakers were called "two deep", a reference to them having 2 stars and then a MASSIVE drop off after that to the point of NOTHING worth mentioning beyond Shaq/Kobe. Just a few solid role players who each did maybe 1 or 2 things well, and flat out couldn't do other things.

[Im Still Ballin]

we expect more from lebron than we do of kobe

[Solefade]

how is this even an argument? lebron is way better than kobe

[Relinquish]

we expect more from lebron than we do of kobe

This is true. :applause:

[Im Still Ballin]

This is true. :applause:
so naturally Lebron and Kobe aren't judged on the same level. Therefore Lebron's average play is usually Kobe's best.

[DMAVS41]

How so? He's currently 2/4 in the Finals and if you break down his Finals so far, it's a stretch to say he's eaisly been eaisly better than Kobe.

2007 vs Spurs: His team was swept, but it's not really the fact that he lost that series, but that he performed so far below what you would have expected from him. He averaged 22/7/7, but he shot 35% from the field, 20% on 3's and 69% from the line while averaging 6 turnovers per game and on 23 shots per game. That's horrendous for a player of James' caliber. Although I do give him somewhat of a pass for losing since nobody really expected the Cavs to beat the Spurs, but if he even played a little bit better, the series would have been closer, specifically in Game's 3 and 4, it would have been 2-2 going to Cleveland. It's a black mark on his resume in a way not because he lost, but because of how poorly he played by his standards even back then. Although I don't really judge him based on that too much because he wasn't in his prime yet. Part of that was him being exposed as a terrible shooter. (For the entire season, he shot just 34.6% from 16-23 feet, 31.9% on 3s and 69.8% from the line.)

2011 vs Mavs: This was by far the most perplexing Finals performance we've ever seen from a player of Lebron's caliber. He basically checked out after Game 2, became a mental midget and stopped playing the way that had helped Miami roll through the playoffs. Miami was heavily favored to win and LeBron was so bad that it actually cost his team the championship. It's not just like he played sub-par or something...he was so bad that people, to this day, still can't really figure it out. He wasn't playing injured. He literally went ghost on both ends of the floor. It looked like he just curled up, went into an shell and shut it down after Wade yelled at him in Game 3. There's just no legit reason for LeBron at that point of his career to get outplayed by a bench player other than he either choked badly or he intentionally threw the series for some unknown reason. (Some people point out that he started playing poorly after Wade yelled at him.) Kidd and Marion's defensive effort deserve some credit I suppose, but you would think he was being guarded by peak Payton and peak Pippen on steroids. Just an incredibly dreadful performance by a player with top 5 all-time potential in his prime that will be hard to ignore.

2012 vs Thunder: Excellent all around series from LeBron, and the Heat won in a backdoor sweep of course. Statistically up there with some of the all-time greatest Finals performances.

2013 vs Spurs: He was underwhelming by his standards for the vast majority of this series. Played unassertive and passive. I don't think it's unfair to say he was pretty much an afterthought for the most part in the series until the 4th quarter of Game 6 where he was money (until the last minute, where he was bailed out by offensive boards and Ray Allen of course). He was lights out in Game 7 however, so considering he stepped up in the 4th quarter of Game 6 and in Game 7, and the Heat won the series, I think it's fair to say it's not really a big deal in terms of his legacy.





:oldlol: He has 1 Finals you can fairly asses as playing terrible. (2004 vs Pistons)



Well the 2009/2010 Lakers were a traditional style championship team, with one superstar, a great All-Star sidekick, and varied contributions from good role players in the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less. The 3-peat Lakers won off the strength of their 2 stars. Those teams were not very talented outside of Shaq and Kobe, they had below average role players at each position outside of them. Even the WCF against Portland in 2000 the Blazers were called "too deep" due to their ridiculous depth and talent, while the Lakers were called "two deep", a reference to them having 2 stars and then a MASSIVE drop off after that to the point of NOTHING worth mentioning beyond Shaq/Kobe. Just a few solid role players who each did maybe 1 or 2 things well, and flat out couldn't do other things.



Is 16/5/4 41% TS not terrible?

[NumberSix]

Has Kobe ever had a good finals?

[Solefade]

W/o a lucky shot from Ray Allen Bran would be 1 for 4 in the Finals with 2 legendary chokejobs..


So Ill take Kobe.

yeah i would take kobe too, not a lot of players can go 6/24 in a game 7 of a finals series and win fmvp :roll:

[DMAVS41]

yeah i would take kobe too, not a lot of players can go 6/24 in a game 7 of a finals series and win fmvp :roll:

tpols is right though...

however, kobe is in the same boat. if not for getting bailed out by shaq in 00 when Kobe went 16/5/4 41% TS....

And getting bailed out for going 6-24 and choking in the biggest game of his career....Kobe would be 3 of 7 in the finals with 3 legendary choke jobs in 00, 04, and 10

So while tpols is dead on about Lebron...Kobe is right there with him when playing these hypotheticals.

[Solefade]

tpols is right though...

however, kobe is in the same boat. if not for getting bailed out by shaq in 00 when Kobe went 16/5/4 41% TS....

And getting bailed out for going 6-24 and choking in the biggest game of his career....Kobe would be 3 of 7 in the finals with 3 legendary choke jobs in 00, 04, and 10

So while tpols is dead on about Lebron...Kobe is right there with him when playing these hypotheticals.


if we're gonna play hypotheticals, i could make one up where kobe would be 0/3 in the finals as the man but i'm not going to go there.

lebron had one horrible choke job but is the better finals/playoffs performer period

[DMAVS41]

if we're gonna play hypotheticals, i could make one up where kobe would be 0/3 in the finals as the man but i'm not going to go there.

lebron had one horrible choke job but is the better finals/playoffs performer period

I just said exactly that. all I'm saying is that you can't sweep the 07 and 11 finals under the rug.

[Magic 32]

tpols is right though...

however, kobe is in the same boat. if not for getting bailed out by shaq in 00 when Kobe went 16/5/4 41% TS....

And getting bailed out for going 6-24 and choking in the biggest game of his career....Kobe would be 3 of 7 in the finals with 3 legendary choke jobs in 00, 04, and 10

So while tpols is dead on about Lebron...Kobe is right there with him when playing these hypotheticals.

Both Kobe and Lebron seemed to have been stricken with post-Jordan disease in the finals.

Because they have to be perfect in the finals to compare to Jordan, they both tighten up and plays subpar.


But at least Kobe has the peak excuse.

3 of 4 finals has been in the dead center of Lebron's prime.

Imagine 06 Kobe against the Spurs last year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeiqLTJCuQY

[aj1987]

The one who faced/beat the 2010 (facing 4 HOFs and one of the greatest defensive teams in NBA history) which is superior to any Finals team that LeBron has faced in the Finals. The 2013 Spurs are more historically relevant/successful, but they haven't won a championship since 2007, and their transcendent star (Duncan) was way past his prime.

:biggums:

They weren't even the best defensive team in the league at that time. The '11 and '12 Celtics were far superior. Did you see the numbers that Wade put up against the '10 Celtics? :facepalm


Kobetards....:facepalm


In the NBA Finals:

Kobe - 25.3ppg, 41.2% FG, 5.7rpg, 5.05apg, 1.76spg, 0.9bpg, 31.3%3pt, 84.7% FT

LeBron - 23.2ppg, 43.8 FG%, 9.0rpg, 7.0apg, 1.72spg, 0.59bpg, 26.5 3PT %, 72.7% FT

LeBron was ASS in two of his Finals, but nothing beats Kobe's '00 and '04 Finals. 25 points on 50% TS against the Sixers. Sucked in the '08 Finals as well.

[Magic 32]

LeBron was ASS in two of his Finals, but nothing beats Kobe's '00 and '04 Finals. 25 points on 50% TS against the Sixers. Sucked in the '08 Finals as well.

2000 = injury
2004 = rape trial

What's Lebron excuse?

[Dresta]

Too bad it doesn't work that way. Wade was being left on an island and with space and the Celtics shut down his supporting cast (2010). That's what Orlando did to the Cavs in 09 also. Yes, Wade went ballistic but that was the game plan...let him get his. Kobe's team was good enough where if they defended him that way the offense would still have found a way to beat the Celtics...

you don't want to deal with an efficient 30+ ppg series from Bryant because shutting down Pau Gasol and co. is a different kind of animal than shutting down Michael Beasley and Mario Chalmers. Kobe's supporting cast would still be good enough to muster enough points to win if the Celts had let him go off. It's just strategy. And also nice way to randomly bring in D-Wade and ignore that LeBron choked worse than Kobe in 2010, against the same Celtics team.

And oh yeah...those Celtics played like a -9 defense in the playoffs. They were at around -4 in the RS I believe. They were not AT ALL the same team that coasted during the RS. Rondo was beast in the 2010 playoffs also.

It's like trying to say the 2013 RS Heat were the same team that Indiana took to 7 games...they weren't. Wade was hobbled and Bosh sucked. You can't just look at numbers and say "that series shouldn't have been close", which a 13 Heat vs 13 Pacers numbers comparison would indicate.Lebron may not have played as well as Wade against that Celtics team, but he still put up better numbers than Kobe did against them in the finals.

Orlando beat the Cavs on 09 because Dwight was dominant, and he had great perimeter shooting, not because Lebron averaged 38/8/8 you utter imbecile. Oh yeah, the Celtics just ignored Wade and focused on shutting his terrible teammates down in 10, because that makes all the sense in the world. Wade's only support in that series was Chalmers and and Q-rich (Beasley was awful, not 'shut down' smh). And they didn't 'shut down' Chalmers at all: he played better than he did in the regular season.

It's amazing how people like you literally make up logically nonsensical bullshit just to justify your petty prejudices. When a guy you don't like dominates it's because it was 'the opposing team's gameplan' to let him do so, or because another player was 'taking all the defensive attention'; but when a guy you worship plays shit and still wins it's because 'he drew all the defensive attention and freed his teammates up' despite him taking by far the most shots on the team. Have some ****ing consistency man. In one game of that series Wade dunked on KG twice, was constantly seeing double teams, was making 3's over Tony Allen, and put up 46 points, and Miami won (should have won game 3 as well when he was dominant). Next game he puts up 10 assists and Miami lose by 10. Your story just doesn't fit the facts buddy.

Kobe stans always use the Shaq defensive focus argument when it comes to the 2006 finals, but never seem to mention why it is that playing with Shaq didn't allow Kobe to improve his efficiency, which has been more or less the same his whole career (good, not great).

[Solefade]

2000 = injury
2004 = rape trial

What's Lebron excuse?


raping someone and getting indicted for it is an excuse? :roll: :roll:

[Dresta]

raping someone and getting indicted for it is an excuse? :roll: :roll:
'Sorry i had to ballhog and play like shit guys, just couldn't get that rape thing outta my head.'

[aj1987]

2000 = injury
2004 = rape trial

What's Lebron excuse?

You're basically saying that Kobe is a mental midget. There's no other reason for him to take 24 shots to score 24 points, when Shaq was scoring 27 on 17 shots. Still, no excuse for '01 and '08.

2007 - Had a worse team than Kobe did in '05, '06, and '07.
2011 - Throat injury. Symptoms include choking after playing 3 quarters of basketball.

[Magic 32]

Lebron may not have played as well as Wade against that Celtics team, but he still put up better numbers than Kobe did against them in the finals.


http://s2.postimg.org/rrcoyp6kp/123123.png

2.5 out of 6

http://s8.postimg.org/9cwdgkw9h/456456.png

4 out of 7

Kobe wins.

[Magic 32]

You're basically saying that Kobe is a mental midget. There's no other reason for him to take 24 shots to score 24 points, when Shaq was scoring 27 on 17 shots. Still, no excuse for '01 and '08.

Outside of game 1... 27, 9, 6 on 44% shooting.

:confusedshrug:

[aj1987]

Outside of game 1... 27, 9, 6 on 44% shooting.

:confusedshrug:
So, you're allowed to pick and choose games?

[Magic 32]

'Sorry i had to ballhog and play like shit guys, just couldn't get that rape thing outta my head.'

Or....last chance before the slammer.

[Magic 32]

So, you're allowed to pick and choose games?

80% is pick and choose?

[ArbitraryWater]

Outside of game 1... 27, 9, 6 on 44% shooting.

:confusedshrug:

Why are you guys ALWAYS doing this "outside", "if we take away", "besides" crap?

I mean you literally just listed in another thread LeBron's best finals games, "except for 2012"... now you say "outside of game 1", how about you FOR ONCE, just FOR ONCE, include ALL THE ****IN' GAMES THAT WERE PLAYED... is that too hard, retard?

Because I got something even better... the Entire series, INCLUDING GAME 1..... 25, 8, 6 on 41% shooting.

[Mr Feeny]

Why are you guys ALWAYS doing this "outside", "if we take away", "besides" crap?

I mean you literally just listed in another thread LeBron's best finals games, "except for 2012"... now you say "outside of game 1", how about you FOR ONCE, just FOR ONCE, include ALL THE ****IN' GAMES THAT WERE PLAYED... is that too hard, retard?

Because I got something even better... the Entire series, INCLUDING GAME 1..... 25, 8, 6 on 41% shooting.

Awwww he's angry now

[Magic 32]

Because I got something even better... the Entire series, INCLUDING GAME 1..... 25, 8, 6 on 41% shooting.


10 days of after killing the Spurs in the WCF.

Just needed so rhythm.

[Mr Feeny]

10 days of after killing the Spurs in the WCF.

Just needed so rhythm.

That's his problem.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe's 2002 finals (Shaq outplayed him) is the only reason this is close... Once more, without his frontline producing (Shaq during the 3-peat and Gasol in 09), this wouldn't even be a discussion. Bron's game 7 ALONE is better than anything Kobe's been able to muster on the big stage..

Bottom line...Bron's series in OKC was better than anything Kobe's done in the playoffs when you consider the circumstances.

[Magic 32]

Bron's game 7 ALONE is better than anything Kobe's been able to muster on the big stage..


36 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists (14-27 FG).........in 29 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7jF_4aego

[Ne 1]

Is 16/5/4 41% TS not terrible?

Eh, he did play subpar to poor in that series in general, but he still made a big contribution in a critical game and the Lakers won the series, plus he was injured. I know 19/6/4/41 TS% (Note: this is excluding the game where Jalen Rose admittedly intentionally took him out in the 1st quarter and Kobe didn't return) doesn't look that good on paper, but taking into consideration that he missed most of game 2, all of Game 3, and was hobbled and limping around for the rest of the series, and the fact that he returned after getting injured and came up with a heroic clutch performance, I don't feel like it's a big deal in terms of his legacy or that his 2000 championship should be completely dismissed. He was after all one of only 2 Laker players near All-Star level, and one of only 3 Lakers who were offensive threats at all (and a washed up Glen Rice wasn't playing like one in the playoffs, with many of the negatives on and off the court outweighing the one positive of his one-dimensional game; which was fading).

[Solefade]

36 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists (14-27 FG).........in 29 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7jF_4aego


it's not better than bron's game 7 :confusedshrug:

[Mr Feeny]

2000 = injury
2004 = rape trial

What's Lebron excuse?His problem. He stunk up the place.

[Mr Feeny]

36 points, 7 rebounds, 7 assists (14-27 FG).........in 29 minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue7jF_4aego

Nice try but no.
Try again.

[guy]

So basically, who sucks less in the finals? Cause both are pretty bad in the Finals overall for their standards. I'd probably say Kobe.

[Magic 32]

Nice try but no.
Try again.

40,8,8 = 56
37,12,4 = 53

and playing a lot less min.

[K Xerxes]

40,8,8 = 56
37,12,4 = 53

and playing a lot less min.

Do that with their career regular season and playoff numbers, and LeBron comes out on top very easily. You're such a terrible poster.

[Mr Feeny]

40,8,8 = 56
37,12,4 = 53

and playing a lot less min.

Awww cute but that's not the way it works?

Competition?
Stakes?

Mmm Lebron averaged 38.5,8,8 against ORL compared to Kobe's 34,7

A game 7 in the finals is also much more important than any other game.
We all know how mr 6-24 fares in game 7's now:lol

[Magic 32]

Competition?
Stakes?



Playing against a stunned and exhausted Spurs team plus knowing that you shouldn't even be here (G6).



Mmm Lebron averaged 38.5,8,8 against ORL


Playing slightly more than 30 min. I believe.

[Mr Feeny]

Playing against a stunned and exhausted Spurs team plus knowing that you shouldn't even be here (G6).



Playing slightly more than 30 min. I believe.

Awww adorable answers but you haven't really addressed any of our points.

[Magic 32]

Awww adorable answers but you haven't really addressed any of our points.

Competition = stunned and exhausted Spurs

Stakes = shouldn't even be there

Imagine falling apart in the biggest moment of your career and then getting bailed out (G6).

Game 7 must have felt like heaven for Lebron.

A total freebee.

[Mr Feeny]

Competition = stunned and exhausted Spurs

Stakes = shouldn't even be there

Imagine falling apart in the biggest moment of your career and then getting bailed out (G6).

Game 7 must have felt like heaven for Lebron.

A total freebee.

Au contraire! The stakes are never higher than game 7's in the finals.
Kobe is a 6-24 specialist while Lebron is the greatest game 7 performer of all time.

Competition exhausted because of a long series? Doesn't it make him exhausted as well?
An exhausted and drugged 2013 spurs team would have swept the 2009 magic as well.


Mmkthxbye
Nice playing
Don't get mad nawww poor baby so adorable

[Magic 32]

Competition exhausted because of a long series? Doesn't it make him exhausted as well?


Not when you're 28.

If fact, Duncan was exhausted by halftime of game 6

[Mr Feeny]

Not when you're 28.

If fact, Duncan was exhausted by halftime of game 6

Aww is u say so. An exhausted Spurs team 》》》》 that Magic team though.

Aren't you sooo cute the way you go back and forth.:applause:

[Magic 32]

Aren't you sooo cute the way you go back and forth.:applause:

You need to work on your Hans Gruber.

This is mediocre stuff.

[Mr Feeny]

You need to work on your Hans Gruber.

This is mediocre stuff.

You need to work on your basketball knowledge.
This is abysmal stuff:applause:

[Magic 32]

You need to work on your basketball knowledge.
This is abysmal stuff:applause:

I know. Going beyond the confines of Basketball-Reference.com

Truely the undiscovered country for lebrontards.

[Mr Feeny]

I know. Going beyond the confines of Basketball-Reference.com

Truely the undiscovered country for lebrontards.

Who mentioned the LeBrontards:eek:
Are they living in ur head rent free? Cuz I'm not a LeBron fanboy by any means:oldlol:
But I guess that an adowable angel kobe fanboi like u thinks that whoever thinks that the baaaaaaad man lebwon is better than Kobe must be a lebrontard and only go to basketballreference.

:bowdown:

[ArbitraryWater]

I know. Going beyond the confines of Basketball-Reference.com

Truely the undiscovered country for lebrontards.

Dude youve just been posting some weird ass stuff, combining points/rebounds/assists and adding them up... dont get no more arbitrary than that.

Hey, lemme do that with their CAREER PLAYOFF NUMBERS:

LeBron: 28/9/7=44
Kobe: 26/5/5=36

Take away Kobe 97-98 and all changes is a point... =37. Still a PLUS 7 EDGE

How do you like that now? Love it. Great advanced stat.

Also LAWL at comparing finals game 1 to a game 7... :oldlol:

I'm sure you also think the Magic were better than the Spurs, eh?

Get out of your cute little delusional world.

[Cold soul]

Kobe but both are subpar Finals performers.

[Magic 32]

Dude youve just been posting some weird ass stuff, combining points/rebounds/assists and adding them up... dont get no more arbitrary than that.


Just to show that Kobe won in that category as well.



Hey, lemme do that with their CAREER PLAYOFF NUMBERS:

LeBron: 28/9/7=44
Kobe: 26/5/5=36


Let Lebron complete his career arc before we compare.



I'm sure you also think the Magic were better than the Spurs, eh?
.

The Spurs in game 7, absolutely.

[Mr Exlax]

I'd say LeBron. He lead his team in more categories than Kobe did IIRC.

[zoom17]

I'd say LeBron. He lead his team in more categories than Kobe did IIRC.

This

[DonDadda59]

This is a trick question right?

[2010splash]

LOL!:roll:

The obvious answer is LeBron. What did he do in Game 7 last year? 37/12.

How about Kobe in Game 7? 6/24.

/thread

[TheMarkMadsen]

32/6/7

Lebron has noting on that

27/6/6 on 50+%

Lebron has nothing on that

[DFish24]

The one that has shot 50%FG in a Finals series.