It just hit me.........

[Im so nba'd out]

If kobe would of won the finals vs celtics in 08 he would be the 2nd best player ever and even would could be = jordan.That 1 series kept him from being a top 2 player of all time :( .if he would of 3 peated 2 times he would of been top 2 with jordan.Now he's doomed to be top 10 and every decade that goes by he will prolly fall 1 or 2 spots......Its sad in a way

[buddha]

if kobe won in 04 and 08 nobody could deny him as the greatest of all-time. 7 chips.

[robert_shaww]

If kobe would of won the finals vs celtics in 08 he would be the 2nd best player ever and even would could be = jordan.That 1 series kept him from being a top 2 player of all time :( .if he would of 3 peated 2 times he would of been top 2 with jordan.Now he's doomed to be top 10 and every decade that goes by he will prolly fall 1 or 2 spots......Its sad in a way

if lebron would of won the 11 finals vs mavs, he would be 10

[Im so nba'd out]

if kobe won in 04 and 08 nobody could deny him as the greatest of all-time. 7 chips.
tru

[J Shuttlesworth]

if kobe won in 04 and 08 nobody could deny him as the greatest of all-time. 7 chips.
Actually, he would only have 3 FMVPs though out of 7 rings, where as Jordan had 6/6 FMVPs

[Im so nba'd out]

Actually, he would only have 3 FMVPs though out of 7 rings, where as Jordan had 6/6 FMVPs
naw but he would of had 7 rings not gona lie he really would be the goat going 7 out 7 and being so good late in his career.BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN

[kennethgriffin]

Actually, he would only have 3 FMVPs though out of 7 rings, where as Jordan had 6/6 FMVPs

he'd have 3 in a row with gasol and scrubs though

that > jordans finals mvps with legends pippen/rodman

[pastis]

Actually, he would only have 3 FMVPs though out of 7 rings, where as Jordan had 6/6 FMVPs

2 fmvps, cause one goes to gasol. nevertheless, if kobe would have won 04 with saq and 08, he would def. have a shot for top 3. now he is considered 7-10

[J Shuttlesworth]

naw but he would of had 7 rings not gona lie he really would be the goat going 7 out 7 and being so good late in his career.BUT IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
To me, FMVPs are more telling of how dominant you are during a championship run. 6 > 4 (theoretical)

[DMAVS41]

And he didn't win those years because of how good at basketball he is.

Just like if Kobe had a made a run in the playoffs in 06 he would be known as a better player...but in order to make that run he would have had to be a better player.

Which is why circumstances matter for inividual and team success and we have to put it all into context, but we also can't ignore it either.

I'd bet my life that peak MJ gets that 06 Lakers team past the 06 Suns...

[Im so nba'd out]

To me, FMVPs are more telling of how dominant you are during a championship run. 6 > 4 (theoretical)
even the biggest kobe hater would admit 7 > 6 with completely different teammates 3 peating.Too bad it didnt happen he really would of be the unanimous goat or at worst top 2 all time

[TheMarkMadsen]

if Bynum & Ariza were healthy it prolly happens, the way the 08 Celtics defended Kobe with 3 people at all times they were just begging for another Laker to step up and beat them..

[J Shuttlesworth]

even the biggest kobe hater would admit 7 > 6 with completely different teammates 3 peating.Too bad it didnt happen he really would of be the unanimous goat or at worst top 2 all time
I dunno man.. He's still not beating Jordan's playoff/finals averages unless Kobe had really stepped it up for those 2 other rings. Aside from Pippen, a lot of Jordan's cast was different in his first 3 peat than the second. I just can't consider a guy who wasn't the leader of his team for 3 of the rings to be greater than Jordan

[pastis]

if Bynum & Ariza were healthy it prolly happens, the way the 08 Celtics defended Kobe with 3 people at all times they were just begging for another Laker to step up and beat them..

do anayone remeber how disgusting the celtics were at these finals? remember how the celtics-bench hampered and distracted lakers players from shooting, especially kobe. was a shame to watch these.:facepalm

[Marchesk]

if kobe won in 04 and 08 nobody could deny him as the greatest of all-time. 7 chips.

http://www.achievement.org/achievers/rus0/large/rus0-004.jpg

[HEAT111]

if kobe won in 04 and 08 nobody could deny him as the greatest of all-time. 7 chips.


If Derek Fisher would have won 04, 08 and 12...he'd have 8 chips.

[jstern]

It just hit me, if Kobe had stayed with the Hornets, then he would just be known as a volume, low efficiency scorer. If he hadn't played for the Lakers, then he wouldn't have had the luxury of playing with Shaq. It just hit that if Kobe hadn't been constantly bailed out, missing clutch shots, and having poor final performances, then he wouldn't even be considered top 20 all time.




he'd have 3 in a row with gasol and scrubs though

that > jordans finals mvps with legends pippen/rodman

This is your new agenda, saying that he played with scrubs, when he had a stacked team, who were the big favorites in winning the series. Getting taken to 7 games by like the 6 seed Celtics.

[DonDadda59]

:kobe:

Havlicek got 8 rangz doe...

[buddha]

If Derek Fisher would have won 04, 08 and 12...he'd have 8 chips.

how many times did Derek Fisher score 81 points?

[red1]

if he got that threepeat beating the C's in 08 then it would have been legendary indeed

[DuMa]

if he didnt rape that white girl in colorado....







he would have raped the other white girl in colorado

[GrapeApe]

The thing is, had the Lakers won in '08, you cannot simply assume they would have won in '09 and '10. It's a "butterfly effect" scenario and the same thing applies when people say the Heat should be going for a 4-peat right now. Losing in the finals may well have been the catalyst for the subsequent success of both teams.

[jstern]

The thing is, had the Lakers won in '08, you cannot simply assume they would have won in '09 and '10. It's a "butterfly effect" scenario and the same thing applies when people say the Heat should be going for a 4-peat right now. Losing in the finals may well have been the catalyst for the subsequent success of both teams.


That's something that I'm always thinking about. Even sort of created a thread about Len Bias that relates to such a concept. Even yesterday I was checking out a Lebron vs Kobe argument, and I thought, "If the Lakers hadn't won those two last championships, then perhaps Lebron would have zero championships right now."


And right now I just remembered that one of the reason Lebron gave for joining the Heat was Kobe shooting 6-24 in the Finals, yet still the Lakers winning the game because others were able to step up, and he didn't have that other star player that could contribute when his all is not enough.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's something that I'm always thinking about. Even sort of created a thread about Len Bias that relates to such a concept. Even yesterday I was checking out a Lebron vs Kobe argument, and I thought, "If the Lakers hadn't won those two last championships, then perhaps Lebron would have zero championships right now."


And right now I just remembered that one of the reason Lebron gave for joining the Heat was Kobe shooting 6-24 in the Finals, yet still the Lakers winning the game because others were able to step up, and he didn't have that other star player that could contribute when his all is not enough.

Absolutely. Without his historic collapse in the finals, we wouldn't be watching the player we see today. LeBron playing like a scared, gutless, little toddler in 2011 actually helped him.. Ray Allen and Wade have also cancelled out any woes we see in the 4th quarter (last years finals, Gm 6)

[raprap]

So 1 ring would catapult him from number 9 to number 2? Dunno man.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

$100 says op had his d!ck in hand when "it hit him".

[sportjames23]

Needs a bit of an update, but still relevant:

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/3/3/3/3/3/3/1/CHILDREN-PLEASE-82458214514.jpeg