who is the most successful choker of all time?

[kennethgriffin]

guys who had some great success. but choked more often

Tim Duncan
Wilt Chamberlain
or Lebron James


VOTING STARTS NOW

[LeBron 06]

Kobe Bryant

[Marlo_Stanfield]

i

[buddha]

LerBran Jane

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well 2004 NBA finals...
:cry:

[Black and White]

Tim Duncan has the best career out of those 3, followed by LeBron, but LeBron has come back from his chokejob in an epic way.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe Bryant

kobe only choked in 2004 and 2011

any other time he lost he was supposed to lose

[Ancient Legend]

Jerry West 1-7 in the finals.

[Chizdog]

Kobe and Duncan.

[raprap]

Kobe. Shot 6/24 in a game 7 of the finals.

[LeBron 06]

kobe only choked in 2004 and 2011

any other time he lost he was supposed to lose





6/24

[oarabbus]

6/24

How many TOs

[kennethgriffin]

6/24


he won though

and held pierce/allen to 8 for 29 and grabbed 15 rebounds with a key shot


saved his choke

like if after duncan blew the gimmy layup to win the title in 2013. if he went back to the other end. made a stop and came back and won with a 2nd look. then it wouldnt have been a choke

[NumberSix]

Kobe

[kennethgriffin]

Well 2004 NBA finals...
:cry:


meh... kobes had waaaaaay more success than failures


duncan/wilt/lebron have waaaaaaaay more failures than success

[raprap]

he won though

and held pierce/allen to 8 for 29 and grabbed 15 rebounds with a key shot


saved his choke

like if after duncan blew the gimmy layup to win the title in 2013. if he went back to the other end. made a stop and came back and won with a 2nd look. then it wouldnt have been a choke
yep they won that is why he is the most successful choker of all time

[bigkingsfan]

Kobe Tai

[NASH = BEST]

I vote for Wilt

2nd would be Duncan, but if the Spurs lose to the Thunder, then I think an argument for him over Wilt can be made.

3rd LeBron, but if he fails to win the Finals this year, then I think it'd be a toss up between him and Duncan. Unless, of course, if he loses to Duncan, then LeBron leapfrogs Duncan.

[LeBron 06]

duncan/wilt/lebron have waaaaaaaay more failures than success





C'mon:facepalm

[AintNoSunshine]

Some dude shot 6/24 and got carried to a title so what do you think:roll:

[Trollsmasher]

Kobrick

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe



1997 - doesnt play, loses to better team ( no choke )
1998 - doesnt play, loses to better team ( no choke )
1999 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2000 - wins title
2001 - wins title
2002 - wins title
2003 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2004 - -------------------one choke-----------------------
2005 - injured ( no choke )
2006 - loses to better team ( 8th to 1st seed ), 3-1 edge ( slight choke )
2007 - loses to better team ( no choke )
2008 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2009 - wins title
2010 - wins title
2011 - loses to nba champions ( ended up being the better team. no choke )
2012 - loses to better team ( no choke )
2013 - injured ( no choke )
2014 - injured ( no choke )




kobe has 1 choke and 1 iffy choke out of 18 years

not too shabby


duncan/wilt/lebron = LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[jstern]

Based on stats, like Finals performances and game winners, I would have to say Kobe Bryant.

His success is litter with being carried by Shaq, and his teammates bailing him out in the clutch.

So by definition I would have to say Kobe Bryant.

[funnystuff]

2004

[nzahir]

1997 - doesnt play, loses to better team ( no choke )
1998 - doesnt play, loses to better team ( no choke )
1999 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2000 - wins title
2001 - wins title
2002 - wins title
2003 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2004 - -------------------one choke-----------------------
2005 - injured ( no choke )
2006 - loses to better team ( 8th to 1st seed ), 3-1 edge ( slight choke )
2007 - loses to better team ( no choke )
2008 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2009 - wins title
2010 - wins title
2011 - loses to nba champions ( ended up being the better team. no choke )
2012 - loses to better team ( no choke )
2013 - injured ( no choke )
2014 - injured ( no choke )




kobe has 1 choke and 1 iffy choke out of 18 years

not too shabby


duncan/wilt/lebron = LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

So anytime kobe loses its b/c he should of lost; but lebron and TD should always win huh? Doesnt work that way bud

[StrongLurk]

guys who had some great success. but choked more often

Tim Duncan
Wilt Chamberlain
or Lebron James


VOTING STARTS NOW

This answer IS actually Kobe Bryant, which is amusing considering the OP.

[BBallZen83]

I'dsay you Kenneth. You have been choking on Kobe's member for years now.

[kennethgriffin]

Based on stats, like Finals performances and game winners, I would have to say Kobe Bryant.


kobes list of game winners

List of Game Winners:


1. May 09, 1999: Lakers 101 - Rockets 100 (PO, game-winning FTs w/ 5.3 secs)

2. Dec. 27, 1999: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs w/ 8.6 secs)

3. May 10, 2000: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (PO, jumper over Kidd w/ 2.6 secs)

4. Feb. 07, 2001: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper over Marion w/ 2.7 sec)

5. Feb. 13, 2001: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT layup/and-1 w/ 4.8 secs)

6. Jan. 02, 2002: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off-reb and jumper w/ 55 secs)

7. Feb. 22, 2002: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (buzzer-beater, jumper over Lynch)

8. May 12, 2002: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (PO, off-reb and put-back w/ 5.1 secs)

9. Dec. 06, 2002: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (turn-around jumper w/ 8 secs)

10. April 04, 2003: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater, jumper over Battier)

11. April 06, 2003: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (OT, game-tying jumper for OT, jumper over Marion w/ 28.6 sec)

12. Dec. 19, 2003: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (buzzer-beater, fade-away over Barry)

13. Mar. 21, 2004: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper over Van Horn w/ 25.1 sec)

14. April 14, 2004: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT buzzer beater, game-tying 3-pointer for OT, fall-away 3-pointer)

15. Mar. 12, 2005: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (jumper over Bogans w/ 0.9 secs)

16. Nov. 02, 2005: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper over Najera w/ 0.6 secs)

17. Dec. 04, 2005: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs w/ 7 secs)

18. Jan. 12, 2006: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper over James w/ 8.6 secs)

19. April 30, 2006: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (PO, OT buzzer-beater, game-tying tear-drop for OT, jumper over Diaw)

20. Jan. 14, 2008: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT jumper over Green w/ 4.3 secs)

21. Jan. 09, 2009: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper over Jack w/ 3 secs)

22. Dec. 04, 2009: Lakers 108 - Heat 107 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer over Wade)

23. Dec. 16, 2009: Lakers 107 - Bucks 106 (OT buzzer-beater, jumper over Bell)

24. Jan. 01, 2010: Lakers 109 - Kings 108 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer)

25. Jan. 31, 2010: Lakers 90 - Celtics 89 (jumper over Allen w/ 7.3 secs)

26. Feb. 23, 2010: Lakers 99 - Grizzlies 98 (3-pointer over Gay w/ 4.3 secs)

27. Mar. 09, 2010: Lakers 109 - Raptors 107 (jumper over Wright w/ 1.9 secs)

28. Feb. 12, 2012: Lakers 93

[LeBron 06]

1997 - doesnt play, loses to better team ( no choke )
1998 - doesnt play, loses to better team ( no choke )
1999 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2000 - wins title
2001 - wins title
2002 - wins title
2003 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2004 - -------------------one choke-----------------------
2005 - injured ( no choke )
2006 - loses to better team ( 8th to 1st seed ), 3-1 edge ( slight choke )
2007 - loses to better team ( no choke )
2008 - loses to nba champions and better team ( no choke )
2009 - wins title
2010 - wins title
2011 - loses to nba champions ( ended up being the better team. no choke )
2012 - loses to better team ( no choke )
2013 - injured ( no choke )
2014 - injured ( no choke )




kobe has 1 choke and 1 iffy choke out of 18 years

not too shabby


duncan/wilt/lebron = LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Kobe was horrible in the final in 2000.....Very lucky to win...The lakers were the favorite before the 2008 finals....In2010, Kobe was again lucky to win with his 6/24

[kennethgriffin]

So anytime kobe loses its b/c he should of lost; but lebron and TD should always win huh? Doesnt work that way bud

when duncan loses its usually when he has a series lead or has HC advantage

nearly all the times kobes lost its when his team doesnt hold a 2 game series advantage like duncan usually has and lost with.... or the lakers with the #1 record or HC.. which duncan also seemingly always loses with

:lol :roll: :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe was horrible in the final in 2000.....Very lucky to win...The lakers were the favorite before the 2008 finals....In2010, Kobe was again lucky to win with his 6/24


kobe wasnt horrible in the 2000 finals. he was injured you baboon. his end average took a hit by leaving the game after like 2 minutes in one game

:lol

[Lebronxrings]

Kobe

[DFish24]

Wilt followed closely by Bran.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe


:oldlol:

you should be happy duncans making a claim to knock lebron down on the list of epic chokers


celebrate it. dont fight it

[aj1987]

Wilt Chokerlain.

HM: Chokebe Bryant.

[EnoughSaid]

If you're going by the statement "Should have lost so a subpar performance doesn't matter", then LeBron really only choked in 2010 vs. Boston and the 2011 Finals. That's it.

[LeBron 06]

kobe wasnt horrible in the 2000 finals. he was injured you baboon. his end average took a hit by leaving the game after like 2 minutes in one game

:lol





Kobe had only 19 PPG in this series on 36%, if I exclude the game 2


To say that Duncan and LeBron is a choker is ridiculous...LeBron's career is far from over and Duncan in his prime he has never choked

[Solefade]

kobe

6/24 game 7 probably biggest game of his life and then gets fmvp :lol

[ralph_i_el]

meh... kobes had waaaaaay more success than failures


duncan/wilt/lebron have waaaaaaaay more failures than success



you should get a new topic to beat like a dead horse. This might have been relevant in 2011

[SilkkTheShocker]

kobe

6/24 game 7 probably biggest game of his life and then gets fmvp :lol
Boom. Thread. :oldlol:

[casual_fan]

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]kobes list of game winners

List of Game Winners:


1. May 09, 1999: Lakers 101 - Rockets 100 (PO, game-winning FTs w/ 5.3 secs)

2. Dec. 27, 1999: Lakers 108 - Mavericks 106 (game-winning FTs w/ 8.6 secs)

3. May 10, 2000: Lakers 97 - Phoenix 96 (PO, jumper over Kidd w/ 2.6 secs)

4. Feb. 07, 2001: Lakers 85 - Phoenix 83 (jumper over Marion w/ 2.7 sec)

5. Feb. 13, 2001: Lakers 113 - Nets 110 (OT layup/and-1 w/ 4.8 secs)

6. Jan. 02, 2002: Lakers 87 - Nuggets 86 (off-reb and jumper w/ 55 secs)

7. Feb. 22, 2002: Lakers 96 - Hornets 94 (buzzer-beater, jumper over Lynch)

8. May 12, 2002: Lakers 87 - Spurs 85 (PO, off-reb and put-back w/ 5.1 secs)

9. Dec. 06, 2002: Lakers 105 - Mavericks 103 (turn-around jumper w/ 8 secs)

10. April 04, 2003: Lakers 102 - Grizzlies 101 (buzzer beater, jumper over Battier)

11. April 06, 2003: Lakers 115 - Suns 113 (OT, game-tying jumper for OT, jumper over Marion w/ 28.6 sec)

12. Dec. 19, 2003: Lakers 101 - Nuggets 99 (buzzer-beater, fade-away over Barry)

13. Mar. 21, 2004: Lakers 104 - Bucks 103 (OT jumper over Van Horn w/ 25.1 sec)

14. April 14, 2004: Lakers 105 - Blazers 104 (OT buzzer beater, game-tying 3-pointer for OT, fall-away 3-pointer)

15. Mar. 12, 2005: Lakers 117 - Bobcats 116 (jumper over Bogans w/ 0.9 secs)

16. Nov. 02, 2005: Lakers 99 - Nuggets 97 (OT jumper over Najera w/ 0.6 secs)

17. Dec. 04, 2005: Lakers 99 - Bobcats 98 (game-winning FTs w/ 7 secs)

18. Jan. 12, 2006: Lakers 99 - Cavaliers 98 (jumper over James w/ 8.6 secs)

19. April 30, 2006: Lakers 99 - Suns 98 (PO, OT buzzer-beater, game-tying tear-drop for OT, jumper over Diaw)

20. Jan. 14, 2008: Lakers 123 - Sonics 121 (OT jumper over Green w/ 4.3 secs)

21. Jan. 09, 2009: Lakers 121 - Pacers 119 (jumper over Jack w/ 3 secs)

22. Dec. 04, 2009: Lakers 108 - Heat 107 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer over Wade)

23. Dec. 16, 2009: Lakers 107 - Bucks 106 (OT buzzer-beater, jumper over Bell)

24. Jan. 01, 2010: Lakers 109 - Kings 108 (buzzer-beater, 3-pointer)

25. Jan. 31, 2010: Lakers 90 - Celtics 89 (jumper over Allen w/ 7.3 secs)

26. Feb. 23, 2010: Lakers 99 - Grizzlies 98 (3-pointer over Gay w/ 4.3 secs)

27. Mar. 09, 2010: Lakers 109 - Raptors 107 (jumper over Wright w/ 1.9 secs)

28. Feb. 12, 2012: Lakers 93

[kennethgriffin]

you should get a new topic to beat like a dead horse. This might have been relevant in 2011

dunno

lebron choked in 2009,2010,2011 and won in 2012,2013

hes still +1 in chokes

losing to a worse team = choke

[Keno]

chuckbe cryant.

[LeBron 06]

dunno

lebron choked in 2009,2010,2011 and won in 2012,2013

hes still +1 in chokes



You're stupid

6/24 is not a choke for you, but a series with an average of 38-8-8 is a choke! ... Wow

[kennethgriffin]

[B][QUOTE=casual_fan]:applause: :applause: :applause:

As you can see Kobe didn

[DFish24]

Bran 2009-11 is the greatest 3-year choke run ever.

[kennethgriffin]

You're stupid

6/24 is not a choke for you, but a series with an average of 38-8-8 is a choke! ... Wow


expected to win and not winning = choke

shooting poorly and making up for it by holding 2 major players to 8 for 29 and then grabbing 15 rebounds ontop of that with the key shot at the end, AND the win = not a choke.

lebron hogged and broke his teams rhythm. he went away from what got them there and he didnt make up for his idiocy in any other way

[ralph_i_el]

dunno

lebron choked in 2009,2010,2011 and won in 2012,2013

hes still +1 in chokes

losing to a worse team = choke


you deal in insane fallacies and black and white distinctions devoid of context. This whole Lebron-Kobe stan feud has just devolved into "Nuh-uh-Yuh-huh" arguments with both sides doing increasingly complex mental gymnastics to prop up their man and bring down the other side.

Doesn't it all seem sad?

[SilkkTheShocker]

see 2000 wcf game 7
see 2000 finals game 4
see 2002 wcf game 7


kobe came up huge and saved shaq multiple times on the biggest stages


Shaq was being triple teamed during that game 7 in 2000. I would hope Kobe could muster enough to have a good game. Must be nice to be a sidekick. Some players are expected to be the best player on their teams every season :oldlol:

[aj1987]

Bran 2009-11 is the greatest 3-year choke run ever.
Ain't got nothing on Kobe's run from '03 to '08. A solid 6 straight years of choking.

[kennethgriffin]

Bran 2009-11 is the greatest 3-year choke run ever.

agreed.. his teams were favorites to win it all for each of those 3 years.

why do you people think he won mvp in 2009 and 2010? he had more wins than the lakers

:lol :oldlol: :roll:


then the whole colluding disaster... theyre lucky dallas broke up

[EnoughSaid]

dunno

lebron choked in 2009,2010,2011 and won in 2012,2013

hes still +1 in chokes

losing to a worse team = choke


2010 and 2011 sure, but LeBron did everything BUT choke against Orlando. Best individual series I can think of since Wade in 2006. He basically put up 38/8/8. :wtf:

[PickernRoller]

Lebron.

[LeBron 06]

expected to win and not winning = choke

shooting poorly and making up for it by holding 2 major players to 8 for 29 and then grabbing 15 rebounds ontop of that with the key shot at the end, AND the win = not a choke.

lebron hogged and broke his teams rhythm. he went away from what got them there and he didnt make up for his idiocy in any other way




When you play well, but you lose, it's not a choke.....If you play terrible but you win, you're lucky


Basketball is a team sport, it's not the tennis

[kennethgriffin]

Ain't got nothing on Kobe's run from '03 to '08. A solid 6 straight years of choking.


lol just losing isnt a choke

you have to be favorite or have a commanding lead

only other time than 2004 is maybe 2006 and he was an 8th seed

i fail to see how a worse team losing to a better team without ever holding a series advantage or homecourt in 2003, 2005, 2007 or 2008 can be considered choking

:roll: :lol :oldlol:

[casual_fan]

see 2000 wcf game 7
see 2000 finals game 4
see 2002 wcf game 7


kobe came up huge and saved shaq multiple times on the biggest stages



With " his " titels I meant as the man. As shaqs second fiddle he had his moments but was more hit and miss than everything.

[ralph_i_el]

lol just losing isnt a choke

you have to be favorite or have a commanding lead

only other time than 2004 is maybe 2006 and he was an 8th seed

i fail to see how a worse team losing to a better team without ever holding a series advantage or homecourt in 2003, 2005, 2007 or 2008 can be considered choking

:roll: :lol :oldlol:
yeah it's just considered not being good. Why do you get to say "It's a team game" for Kobe and not for Bron? Oh yeah, because you are a stan and it's useless to argue with you because nothing can change your opinion. Not even Kobe telling you off to your face would change your mind.

[kennethgriffin]

When you play well, but you lose, it's not a choke.....If you play terrible but you win, you're lucky


Basketball is a team sport, it's not the tennis


when kobe hogs for 40ppg averages and the lakers lose. he gets blamed for hogging

when lebron hogs for 40ppg averages and the cavs lose. he gets worshiped?


nah... you cant have your cake and eat it too


lebron took his team mates out of the game trying to play hero ball and standing around all game waiting for kick out threes to pad his meaningless assists

he didnt play team ball.. he played "i wanna average a 40ppg triple double" ball and it cost him the finals

[Deuce Bigalow]

Kobe 27-2 playoff series record with HCA tbh

[Rodmantheman]

kobe only choked in 2004 and 2011

any other time he lost he was supposed to lose



Lebron choke in 2011.

[kennethgriffin]

yeah it's just considered not being good. Why do you get to say "It's a team game" for Kobe and not for Bron? Oh yeah, because you are a stan and it's useless to argue with you because nothing can change your opinion. Not even Kobe telling you off to your face would change your mind.


agreed... finally you get it


lakers werent expected to win in 2003,2005,2006,2007,2008


cavs WERE expected to win in 2009,2010,2011

[LeBron 06]

when kobe hogs for 40ppg averages and the lakers lose. he gets blamed for hogging

when lebron hogs for 40ppg averages and the cavs lose. he gets worshiped?


nah... you cant have your cake and eat it too


lebron took his team mates out of the game trying to play hero ball and standing around all game waiting for kick out threes to pad his meaningless assists

he didnt play team ball.. he played "i wanna average a 40ppg triple double" ball and it cost him the finals


The offense was not the problem against the Magic, even if all the teammates to LeBron was horrible


Defensively, it was a huge problem

[LeBron 06]

agreed... finally you get it


lakers werent expected to win in 2003,2005,2006,2007,2008


cavs WERE expected to win in 2009,2010,2011




The cavs were horrible without LeBron

[LeBron 06]

Not because you have the HCA, you're supposed to win

As in 2008, the Lakers were favored to win vs Boston, even if they had not the HCA

[BasedTom]

Your mom successfully choked on my ****, OP

[StrongLurk]

expected to win and not winning = choke

shooting poorly and making up for it by holding 2 major players to 8 for 29 and then grabbing 15 rebounds ontop of that with the key shot at the end, AND the win = not a choke.

lebron hogged and broke his teams rhythm. he went away from what got them there and he didnt make up for his idiocy in any other way

You must think Lebron is a better player than Kobe, since you believe Lebron should never lose. You're a crappy Kobe stan by saying he is worse than Lebron and Duncan.

[StrongLurk]

agreed... finally you get it


lakers werent expected to win in 2003,2005,2006,2007,2008


cavs WERE expected to win in 2009,2010,2011



2011?

[aj1987]

lol just losing isnt a choke

you have to be favorite or have a commanding lead

only other time than 2004 is maybe 2006 and he was an 8th seed

i fail to see how a worse team losing to a better team without ever holding a series advantage or homecourt in 2003, 2005, 2007 or 2008 can be considered choking

:roll: :lol :oldlol:
'03 - Choked massively in Game 6. Also, froze out Shaq in Game 5 and choked in the 4th. Went 5-13.
'04 - Choked against the Pistons.
'05 - Choked hard and didn't even make the Playoffs.
'06 - Choked away 3-1 lead to the Suns.
'07 - Choked against the Suns. Again. *
'08 - Another vintage Kobrick performance. 50% and choke.

*Since 39/8/8 on 59% TS is a "choke job", so is Kobricks performance in '07.

[dubeta]

agreed... finally you get it


lakers werent expected to win in 2003,2005,2006,2007,2008


cavs WERE expected to win in 2009,2010,2011



I dont get how Cavs were expected to win 2009 and in 2010 with LeBron and Mo Williams, yet somehow the Thunder are not expected to win with Durant, Westbrook, Reggie jackson, and Ibaka :roll:

And is OP saying the worst team in the league, 60 + losses 2011 Cavs were supposed to win? :bowdown:

[Angel Face]

Lebron, is the smartest choker of all time also, the most successful. Smart because he left his team to form a super team to win it all and agreeing to take less pay to be able to have cap space and gather all the help he needed, although failed in 2011 due to his known choking, almost in 2013 after being bailed out by Ray Allen, became a back 2 back champs and is likely going to the NBA finals again for the 4th consecutive time.

Imagine if these superstars didn't team up. How good the east would look like. Wade led Miami, Bosh led Raptors and James led Cavs. But I guess, they don't like great competition and likes it to be easy.

[MMM]

When has Kobe ever upset an opponent and how come he has been a favorite 90% of his career. Kobe has never upset some one like LeBron did in 07. Heck LeBron almost upsetting 08 Celtics is closer to an upset than Kobe has in his entire career.

[SCdac]

http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae276/lane1987/backfire.gif

[dubeta]

When has Kobe ever upset an opponent and how come he has been a favorite 90% of his career. Kobe has never upset some one like LeBron did in 07. Heck LeBron almost upsetting 08 Celtics is closer to an upset than Kobe has in his entire career.

LeBron actually upsetted the stacked 2007 Pistons with Rasheed, Billups, Rip, Tayshaun, and Mcdyess with that GOAT game 5 48 points :bowdown: :bowdown:

[tpols]

When has Kobe ever upset an opponent and how come he has been a favorite 90% of his career. Kobe has never upset some one like LeBron did in 07. Heck LeBron almost upsetting 08 Celtics is closer to an upset than Kobe has in his entire career.

Thats not what choking is.. Chokings when someone upsets you, not the other way around. And Bran has the biggest choke of them all

http://media.nj.com/nets_impact/photo/9660837-large.jpg

[Relinquish]

I'dsay you Kenneth. You have been choking on Kobe's member for years now.

:roll:

[MMM]

Thats not what choking is.. Chokings when someone upsets you, not the other way around. And Bran has the biggest choke of them all

http://media.nj.com/nets_impact/photo/9660837-large.jpg

LeBron is a multi time champion bear with me if I don't think he's a choker or hold a series or two against his career.

[Just2McFly]

Thats not what choking is.. Chokings when someone upsets you, not the other way around. And Bran has the biggest choke of them all

http://media.nj.com/nets_impact/photo/9660837-large.jpg
im SURE that's the biggest choke of them all. gtfo....did miami ever even lead in that series?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Thats not what choking is.. Chokings when someone upsets you, not the other way around. And Bran has the biggest choke of them all

http://media.nj.com/nets_impact/photo/9660837-large.jpg
Wilt tbh

[Deuce Bigalow]

im SURE that's the biggest choke of them all. gtfo....did miami ever even lead in that series?
Yes 1-0 and 2-1

[TheMarkMadsen]

im SURE that's the biggest choke of them all. gtfo....did miami ever even lead in that series?

Miami was up 2-1 going into game 4..

[ninephive]

kobe only choked in 2004 and 2011

any other time he lost he was supposed to lose


Translation: "Kobe's better because he was supposed to lose more."

[livinglegend]

what s your definition of choke?

[kennethgriffin]

Translation: "Kobe's better because he was supposed to lose more."


hey

cant win every year.. dude made 7 finals and won 5


i'd be more upset if he had the best team 11 times and only won 5


its not like kobes teams sucked when they lost. they just lost to better teams

he only had 1 losing season realistically..


so its not like my excuse is as boldy r*tarded as you put it

[Just2McFly]

Miami was up 2-1 going into game 4..

and there were up 1-0??

OMG huge choke :roll: :roll: :roll:

like i dont know how someone over 10 years old is calling that the biggest choke ever... if that's the biggest choke ever then what in the world was the 2006 finals? is that the one you guys think is rigged? that must be the excuse for this trolling to even make a lick of sense.

or when kobe lost a 3-1 lead to the Suns? was that not a choke? you had THREE chances to close a team out and you cant even get ONE? cmon son

[kennethgriffin]

'03 - Choked massively in Game 6. Also, froze out Shaq in Game 5 and choked in the 4th. Went 5-13.
'04 - Choked against the Pistons.
'05 - Choked hard and didn't even make the Playoffs.
'06 - Choked away 3-1 lead to the Suns.
'07 - Choked against the Suns. Again. *
'08 - Another vintage Kobrick performance. 50% and choke.

*Since 39/8/8 on 59% TS is a "choke job", so is Kobricks performance in '07.



you're not even trying to understand what the word choke means are you?

05 and 07? lets just name every non title season a choke.. whats a choke anywho

:lol


kobes only choke was 2004 and 2011. possibly 2006 but he was an 8th seed

and in 2011 that mavs team was realistically better by the playoffs. but i'l accept it


so at most kobe choked 3 series in his life away.. but won 5 rings


much better than duncan and lebron who choked more series away they were supposed to win or were favored than theyve won titles

[ninephive]

hey

cant win every year.. dude made 7 finals and won 5


i'd be more upset if he had the best team 11 times and only won 5


its not like kobes teams sucked when they lost. they just lost to better teams

he only had 1 losing season realistically..


so its not like my excuse is as boldy r*tarded as you put it
I know but I think it's to Kobe's benefit to have been to the Finals so many times. As a Spurs fan, I wanted them to keep their perfect Finals record in tact too, but it's better that they went to the Finals last year and put up a noble fight against an up-and-coming dynasty than if they would have gotten beat by the Grizz or something.

[Keno]

lmao griff is on drugs. lebron's cavs were never the favorites....in any series/year. everyone knows that team was built for the regular season. in the playoffs it was lebronv5.

[tpols]

im SURE that's the biggest choke of them all. gtfo....did miami ever even lead in that series?

Did you watch the series? Miami was up 15 in game two with a few minutes left celebrating their lead and choked it away. Going up 2-0 in the Finals would be a death sentence and Mavs whole resurgence was based on that one stretch of choking.. Dallas looked like they didnt belong in the gym with them until that point.

[Just2McFly]

Did you watch the series? Miami was up 15 in game two with a few minutes left celebrating their lead and choked it away. Going up 2-0 in the Finals would be a death sentence and Mavs whole resurgence was based on that one stretch of choking.. Dallas looked like they didnt belong in the gym with them until that point.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Was the finals the best of 5?

It's a two three two format bro, a 2-0 lead going on the road for three straight games is far from a guaranteed championship.

Lebron underperformed and I agree he choked, but that's far from the worst choke I have ever seen and I'm not that old. We're probably around the same age, but trust me... I know it doesn't fit into your agenda but there are worse.

[TheMarkMadsen]

and there were up 1-0??

OMG huge choke :roll: :roll: :roll:

like i dont know how someone over 10 years old is calling that the biggest choke ever... if that's the biggest choke ever then what in the world was the 2006 finals? is that the one you guys think is rigged? that must be the excuse for this trolling to even make a lick of sense.

or when kobe lost a 3-1 lead to the Suns? was that not a choke? you had THREE chances to close a team out and you cant even get ONE? cmon son

dont catch feelings i was just answering your question

Miami was the obvious favorite in that series and the favorites all season, people were surprised Dallas was even in the finals

[tpols]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Was the finals the best of 5?

It's a two three two format bro, a 2-0 lead going on the road for three straight games is far from a guaranteed championship.

Lebron underperformed and I agree he choked, but that's far from the worst choke I have ever seen and I'm not that old. We're probably around the same age, but trust me... I know it doesn't fit into your agenda but there are worse.

The numbers on it are like 85+% of the teams that go up 2-0 win the series.. it makes victory for the other team highly more unlikely.


And no.. that was the worstchoke I've ever seen. The Heat looked like they were on another tier before they choked that lead away. I still remember wade and bran celebrating jumping up into each other like they won the game when they went up 15+.. and then they had one of the worst chokejobs by a team in the Finals ever.

The momentum from that chokejob is what caused Lebron to be hesitant in the clutch that entire series.. the whole heat team choked to a much weaker team than themselves. What was a bigger upset?

[Just2McFly]

The numbers on it are like 85+% of the teams that go up 2-0 win the series.. it makes victory for the other team highly more unlikely.


And no.. that was the worstchoke I've ever seen. The Heat looked like they were on another tier before they choked that lead away. I still remember wade and bran celebrating jumping up into each other like they won the game when they went up 15+.. and then they had one of the worst chokejobs by a team in the Finals ever.

The momentum from that chokejob is what caused Lebron to be hesitant in the clutch that entire series.. but the whole heat team choked to a much weaker team than themselves.

So the 2006 finals isn't a bigger choke? Where the mavs were about to go up 3-0 and lost four in a row?:facepalm :facepalm

Did you watch basketball before 2010?

[6 for 24]

Another quality thread by ISH's #1 poster, kennethgriffin!

What I find remarkable is that even today, over a year since Kobe has really graced us with his superior championship skillset, the "haters" are still talking about him. How do we say it, ISH, Kobe is renting the headspace?

At any rate, let me quickly shut down the argument that Kobe is some kind of "choker". Borrowing from the stats here (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=305065) and doing some complicated mathematics that is beyond most of you, I have discovered that Kobe has a PER (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324201)

[tpols]

So the 2006 finals isn't a bigger choke? Where the mavs were about to go up 3-0 and lost four in a row?:facepalm :facepalm

Did you watch basketball before 2010?

Its definitely in the discussion with one of the worst chokes ever. I didnt think Dallas was that much better than Miami in 2006.. where it was pretty obvious that the 2011 heat were much better than the mavs with their superstars playing at even average levels.

[Just2McFly]

Its definitely in the discussion with one of the worst chokes ever. I didnt think Dallas was that much better than Miami in 2006.. where it was pretty obvious that the 2011 heat were much better than the mavs with their superstars playing at even average levels.
Are you f*cking joking? I guess I was the only one watching Peja's corpse come back alive and destroy the lakers with threes from him/terry/barea/etc....

That team was on fire.

[DFish24]

Can't Bran and Kobe stans just agree that it's Wilt?

[casual_fan]

Can't Bran and Kobe stans just agree that it's Wilt?

nobody will deny that. :cheers:

[MMM]

Its definitely in the discussion with one of the worst chokes ever. I didnt think Dallas was that much better than Miami in 2006.. where it was pretty obvious that the 2011 heat were much better than the mavs with their superstars playing at even average levels.

Or maybe that Mavs team was better than everyone thought. Weren't the Lakers heavy favorites going into that post seasons as well. Nobody predicted that the Mavs were even going to be in that series much less win.

[aj1987]

you're not even trying to understand what the word choke means are you?

05 and 07? lets just name every non title season a choke.. whats a choke anywho

:lol


kobes only choke was 2004 and 2011. possibly 2006 but he was an 8th seed

and in 2011 that mavs team was realistically better by the playoffs. but i'l accept it


so at most kobe choked 3 series in his life away.. but won 5 rings


much better than duncan and lebron who choked more series away they were supposed to win or were favored than theyve won titles
As I said, Chokebe is a legendary choke artist. Kobe is 2nd only to Wilt in the choking department. His stans and EPSN tried to build up a myth that Kobe was clutch (Chokebe and clutch... LOL!)

Even if you remove the '05 and '07 season, Chuckbe choked in '03, '04, '06, and '08. Not to mention his EPIC disaster of a Finals in '00. Worst Finals EVER for a top 15 player.

[Solefade]

Did you watch the series? Miami was up 15 in game two with a few minutes left celebrating their lead and choked it away. Going up 2-0 in the Finals would be a death sentence and Mavs whole resurgence was based on that one stretch of choking.. Dallas looked like they didnt belong in the gym with them until that point.


losing a series 3-1 is worse

losing 2004 finals in that fashion is worse

getting swept by the mavs in 2011 is worse

[JohnMax]

Kobe is 2-2 in the 4 NBA Finals where he's the 1st option.

Shaq won the first 3 championships. Kobe failed in 2004 and 2008 when he took the most shots.

[GimmeThat]

It has to be between Phil Jackson or Pop.

But then considering the fact that Pop generally doesn't have the best team.


Phil Jackson.

Lost because his team lacked mental toughness (WTF, if you can win a finals game 7 on 6/24 shooting, the coach had to suck last year)

Then got swept by the Mavs.

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Old Michael Jordan from the 2nd 3peat. Don't deny it by saying "No, he's not."

[Andrei89]

Kobe of course.

Why did you not put him on the list OP?

[BruceLeeBowen]

Duncan by a long shot. LBJ already proved that his choking is just a 1 time deal while Duncan is still choking a big fat. Nobody cares about Wilt and he isn't succesful.

[T_L_P]

Duncan by a long shot. LBJ already proved that his choking is just a 1 time deal while Duncan is still choking a big fat. Nobody cares about Wilt and he isn't succesful.

Last three games of the 2010 Conference Semifinals, 2011 Finals

Duncan after 11 seasons never had a meltdown as bad as 2011.

[NotBillWalton]

Latrell Sprewell. And PJ Carlesimo agrees.

[Quickening]

LeBron not winning is always classed as a choke, kobe not winning is rarely classed as a choke. Because one player is known as the best in the world, whereas one is a flashy shit jacker.

[BruceLeeBowen]

Last three games of the 2010 Conference Semifinals, 2011 Finals

Duncan after 11 seasons never had a meltdown as bad as 2011.

Oh you want to include LBJ with his sh*tty team. Then 'll rephrase that, Lebron left his choking days behind now while duncan still loves to choke on a fat one.

Duncan will kill to have lbj 2010 PO stats.

[LakersFan626]

Boom. Thread. :oldlol:

That's NOT a choke. 15 rebounds and a whole bunch of FTs in the 4th, which were the reason the Lakers won.

I'll start with 00-01 since that's when Kobe became a true superstar.

00-01: Won it all
01-02: Won it all
02-03: Lost to the champs, weren't expected to win
03-04: Choke as they lost to the champs but were expected to win
04-05: No choke, team was BAD
05-06: Choke because Lakers were 0-3 in the closeout games
06-07: Lost to a better team
07-08: Lost to the champs, weren't expected to win
08-09: Won it all
09-10: Won it all
10-11: Lost to the champs but were expected to win series so choke
11-12: Lost to a better team
12-13: Injured
13-14: Injured

Three chokes in 14 seasons... that's NOT a choker. LeBron from 05-06 onward, when he started to become a superstar:

05-06: Lost to a better team
06-07: Lost to the champs
07-08: Lost to the champs
08-09: Good series but choke as Cavs were expected to win and LeBron was bad in game 6
09-10: Choke
10-11: Choke as they lost to the champs but were expected to win
11-12: Won it all
12-13: Won it all

Three in eight seasons so technically LeBron is more of a choker than Kobe, though he still has plenty of time to overcome that.

To answer the question, Wilt. Duncan never choked until 05-06, and didn't start choking until 08-09 (08-09 lost to Mavs, 09-10 swept by Suns, 10-11 lost to Grizz in 1st round after having the best record in the west, 11-12 backdoor swept by Thunder, 12-13 Ray Allen three) when he started declining.

[T_L_P]

Oh you want to include LBJ with his sh*tty team. Then 'll rephrase that, Lebron left his choking days behind now while duncan still loves to choke on a fat one.

Duncan will kill to have lbj 2010 PO stats.

Except, Duncan is 38 years old, and he's averaging 16/8 in 32 minutes this postseaosn. His shooting is about average; most 38 year olds aren't in the league. Duncan is not hurting his legacy or choking with what he's done this year. Shaq was a 9/5 player at that age. Hakeem was about the same. Bird, Magic, Barkley, Moses were retired. David Robinson was a carcass.

:facepalm

And how does having a shitty team make you shoot under 35%? Duncan had shit in the early '00s. That's a terrible excuse.

Duncan after eleven years didn't have as many chokes as LeBron. It's that simple. And he's definitely not choking now. He was the best Spur in last year's Finals. I guess we have different definitions of the word.

[T_L_P]

That's NOT a choke. 15 rebounds and a whole bunch of FTs in the 4th, which were the reason the Lakers won.

I'll start with 00-01 since that's when Kobe became a true superstar.

00-01: Won it all
01-02: Won it all
02-03: Lost to the champs, weren't expected to win
03-04: Choke as they lost to the champs but were expected to win
04-05: No choke, team was BAD
05-06: Choke because Lakers were 0-3 in the closeout games
06-07: Lost to a better team
07-08: Lost to the champs, weren't expected to win
08-09: Won it all
09-10: Won it all
10-11: Lost to the champs but were expected to win series so choke
11-12: Lost to a better team
12-13: Injured
13-14: Injured

Three chokes in 14 seasons... that's NOT a choker. LeBron from 05-06 onward, when he started to become a superstar:

05-06: Lost to a better team
06-07: Lost to the champs
07-08: Lost to the champs
08-09: Good series but choke as Cavs were expected to win and LeBron was bad in game 6
09-10: Choke
10-11: Choke as they lost to the champs but were expected to win
11-12: Won it all
12-13: Won it all

Three in eight seasons so technically LeBron is more of a choker than Kobe, though he still has plenty of time to overcome that.

To answer the question, Wilt. Duncan never choked until 05-06, and didn't start choking until 08-09 (08-09 lost to Mavs, 09-10 swept by Suns, 10-11 lost to Grizz in 1st round after having the best record in the west, 11-12 backdoor swept by Thunder, 12-13 Ray Allen three) when he started declining.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2003/story?id=1541117

The Lakers were still favoured to win the title at the beginning of the season, as well as before the Playoffs. :confusedshrug:

[gin17]

lebron no question

[BruceLeeBowen]

Except, Duncan is 38 years old, and he's averaging 16/8 in 32 minutes this postseaosn. His shooting is about average; most 38 year olds aren't in the league. Duncan is not hurting his legacy or choking with what he's done this year. Shaq was a 9/5 player at that age. Hakeem was about the same. Bird, Magic, Barkley, Moses were retired. David Robinson was a carcass.

:facepalm

And how does having a shitty team make you shoot under 35%? Duncan had shit in the early '00s. That's a terrible excuse.

Duncan after eleven years didn't have as many chokes as LeBron. It's that simple. And he's definitely not choking now. He was the best Spur in last year's Finals. I guess we have different definitions of the word.
16/8 :applause: :lol :lol

Having shitty teammates means the defensive focus is solely on lbj while duncan has the luxury of having parker, floppy ginobli, floppy horry, bowen injuring the opposing teams star player and now have kawhi Leonard to save his a** oh yeah and a great coach.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Last three games of the 2010 Conference Semifinals, 2011 Finals

Duncan after 11 seasons never had a meltdown as bad as 2011.

Duncan:
04- Blows 2-0 playoff lead against LA
06- Favorites to beat Dallas and win title. Loses to Dallas and owned by Diop in OT :oldlol:
10- Swept by a Suns team that NO ONE was giving a chance to compete
11- First round loss to an 8th seed
12- Back door swept by OKC after taking a 2-0 lead
13- Misses game tying layup in Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Gigantic choke.

[BruceLeeBowen]

Duncan:
04- Blows 2-0 playoff lead against LA
06- Favorites to beat Dallas and win title. Loses to Dallas and owned by Diop in OT :oldlol:
10- Swept by a Suns team that NO ONE was giving a chance to compete
11- First round loss to an 8th seed
12- Back door swept by OKC after taking a 2-0 lead
13- Misses game tying layup in Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Gigantic choke.
Great post.:applause:

[T_L_P]

Duncan:
04- Blows 2-0 playoff lead against LA
06- Favorites to beat Dallas and win title. Loses to Dallas and owned by Diop in OT :oldlol:
10- Swept by a Suns team that NO ONE was giving a chance to compete
11- First round loss to an 8th seed
12- Back door swept by OKC after taking a 2-0 lead
13- Misses game tying layup in Game 7 of the NBA Finals. Gigantic choke.

04 was a choke. In 06 he averaged 32 PPG on 56% shooting. If that's a choke almost every loss in the Playoffs is. Duncan played well in 2010, and they lost to the higher seeded team (that seems to be the formula for the favourites here). 2011 was a choke. 2012 was a choke. I already established why he didn't choke last year and you didn't have a response. He choked on one play. Gigantic choke. Get the hell out of here.

So, that's legitimately three chokes, and only one of them was in his prime. LeBron is still in his and he already has more than three.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Except, Duncan is 38 years old, and he's averaging 16/8 in 32 minutes this postseaosn. His shooting is about average; most 38 year olds aren't in the league. Duncan is not hurting his legacy or choking with what he's done this year. Shaq was a 9/5 player at that age. Hakeem was about the same. Bird, Magic, Barkley, Moses were retired. David Robinson was a carcass.

:facepalm

And how does having a shitty team make you shoot under 35%? Duncan had shit in the early '00s. That's a terrible excuse.

Duncan after eleven years didn't have as many chokes as LeBron. It's that simple. And he's definitely not choking now. He was the best Spur in last year's Finals. I guess we have different definitions of the word.

Good Lord, please tell me you aren't this stupid? Please. 1. Spurs only had to stop LeBron James in 2007. Even Robert Horry said he never played someone in a playoff series that required more defensive attention then LeBron. This is someone who played against Shaq, Barkley, Malone/Stockton, Kobe, Ewing, etc in the playoffs over the years. 2. Early 2000s Duncan still had way more help then LeBron. Problem has always been Duncan has no charisma and plays for a boring ass franchise. Put his ass in the spotlight like LA and his chokes would get way more talked about.

[T_L_P]

16/8 :applause: :lol :lol

Having shitty teammates means the defensive focus is solely on lbj while duncan has the luxury of having parker, floppy ginobli, floppy horry, bowen injuring the opposing teams star player and now have kawhi Leonard to save his a** oh yeah and a great coach.

Like I said, Hakeem was worse at 36 than Duncan is now, Shaq was a scrub, Magic, Bird, Moses, Barkley were all retired. Robinson was averaging 7/7. At least address that point (and you probably won't, because you simply can't).

I guess the defense was solely focused on Tim then from '00-'03? Derek Anderson was no better than Mo Williams; rookie Parker could barely shoot over 40%. Did Duncan ever have a three game stretch like that in those years? In the last games of the '01 Laker series (no Derek Anderson, injury) he shot 46% from the field.

[SilkkTheShocker]

16/8 :applause: :lol :lol

Having shitty teammates means the defensive focus is solely on lbj while duncan has the luxury of having parker, floppy ginobli, floppy horry, bowen injuring the opposing teams star player and now have kawhi Leonard to save his a** oh yeah and a great coach.

Exactly. And funny part with TLP he thinks we should all be kissing Duncan's ass for putting up the stats he does at his age. But when he chokes it should be swept under the rug because these last year's are "icing on the cake". You can't have it both ways.

[T_L_P]

Good Lord, please tell me you aren't this stupid? Please. 1. Spurs only had to stop LeBron James in 2007. Even Robert Horry said he never played someone in a playoff series that required more defensive attention then LeBron. This is someone who played against Shaq, Barkley, Malone/Stockton, Kobe, Ewing, etc in the playoffs over the years. 2. Early 2000s Duncan still had way more help then LeBron. Problem has always been Duncan has no charisma and plays for a boring ass franchise. Put his ass in the spotlight like LA and his chokes would get way more talked about.

I said 2007 was not as bad as 2010. But what you've said with this post is by default LeBron could not have choked in Cleveland, because of his lack of help, even though in 2010 he had a better squad than what Duncan got in 2001 (and he never shot 36% in the finals games of a series, even without his second option playing).

LeBron choked those last three games in 2010. If Duncan choked in 2013 LeBron had one of the biggest meltdowns ever.

[SilkkTheShocker]

04 was a choke. In 06 he averaged 32 PPG on 56% shooting. If that's a choke almost every loss in the Playoffs is. Duncan played well in 2010, and they lost to the higher seeded team (that seems to be the formula for the favourites here). 2011 was a choke. 2012 was a choke. I already established why he didn't choke last year and you didn't have a response. He choked on one play. Gigantic choke. Get the hell out of here.

So, that's legitimately three chokes, and only one of them was in his prime. LeBron is still in his and he already has more than three.

Problem is your cherry picking. You use past prime excuse for TD, even though he was a top 10 player last year still. But LeBron playing with garbage in Cleveland in 07 still counts, right? Hate to break it to you, but it all counts.

[T_L_P]

Exactly. And funny part with TLP he thinks we should all be kissing Duncan's ass for putting up the stats he does at his age. But when he chokes it should be swept under the rug because these last year's are "icing on the cake". You can't have it both ways.

This is what I don't get. Why can't you have it both ways? If the 8th seed sweeps the 1st seed, they should be praised, right? But if they lose, should they be heavily criticised?

What's the difference here? How can a 38 year old with as much mileage as Duncan be expected to be the Spurs' best or second best player on his team? Now should be the time where Duncan plays 20 minutes a game and rides his team to a title, like so many others did at the same age. Did Robinson choke in 03? What about Shaq in 2010? Hakeem in '99?

[SilkkTheShocker]

I said 2007 was not as bad as 2010. But what you've said with this post is by default LeBron could not have choked in Cleveland, because of his lack of help, even though in 2010 he had a better squad than what Duncan got in 2001 (and he never shot 36% in the finals games of a series, even without his second option playing).

LeBron choked those last three games in 2010. If Duncan choked in 2013 LeBron had one of the biggest meltdowns ever.

At no point in Duncan's time with the Spurs did he have less talent then LeBron. You can tell yourself that all you want, but it's not going to make it true.

[tpols]

Duncan hasnt been 'choking' these past few years.. he just isnt a great offensive player anymore and hasnt been for like 7 years. Hes old and slow and cant finish like he used to.. Bran was 'choking' in the dead middle of his prime while being the best offensive player in basketball. I of course wouldnt give duncan full credit for titles at this point in his career tho.. hes playing the ben wallace role right now.

[T_L_P]

At no point in Duncan's time with the Spurs did he have less talent then LeBron. You can tell yourself that all you want, but it's not going to make it true.

Nice one. Full 2010 Cavs shits on 2001 Spurs minus Derek Anderson. If you don't think so you clearly weren't watching (didn't you make a thread about not watching Prime AI?)

And did Duncan shoot 36% in the final games of the Lakers series? Nah.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Duncan hasnt been 'choking' these past few years.. he just isnt a great offensive player anymore and hasnt been for like 7 years. Hes old and slow and cant finish like he used to.. Bran was 'choking' in the dead middle of his prime while being the best offensive player in basketball. I of course wouldnt give duncan full credit for titles at this point in his career tho.. hes playing the ben wallace role right now.

LeBron>>>>>Kobe all-time. It's time to move on, son.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Nice one. Full 2010 Cavs shits on 2001 Spurs minus Derek Anderson. If you don't think so you clearly weren't watching (didn't you make a thread about not watching Prime AI?)

And did Duncan shoot 36% in the final games of the Lakers series? Nah.


Stopped reading right there. You're delusional. :oldlol:

[poido123]

At no point in Duncan's time with the Spurs did he have less talent then LeBron. You can tell yourself that all you want, but it's not going to make it true.


Comparing the spurs talent to miami is just LOL

Spurs utilize all of their talent and teamwork to win games, along with a good coach.

Duncan at his age gets a pass on anything. He is old and should be judged as such. What he is doing now is remarkable, and what his team is achieving year in year out is noteworthy.

Miami is different. They constructed a team with stars in their prime to win championships. The don't get a pass on anything, because the overwhelming talent they put together and age group of the core suggests that anything less than a championship is a failure.

Silk the clueless :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

kobe only choked in 2004 and 2011

any other time he lost he was supposed to lose



if prime shaq and kobe are supposed to lose to the 03 Spurs...then Kobe is over-rated to begin with

[Paul George 24]

guys who had some great success. but choked more often

Tim Duncan
Wilt Chamberlain
or Lebron James


VOTING STARTS NOW
kobe bryant :applause:

[tmacattack33]

The true answer may actually be Kobe Bryant.

He has 5 rings, yet has been about 5-20 in game winning shots in the playoffs, has had terrible game 7 performances, and has a few very memorable moments of him missing a game winning shot only to have his teammate rebound it and put it back in (yes, my favorite player Lebron has one of those moments with Bosh rebounding his shot last year...but as far as I know that's it, he only has one...and that was on a three point attempt, which Lebron is not known for anyway) .

[SilkkTheShocker]

Comparing the spurs talent to miami is just LOL

Spurs utilize all of their talent and teamwork to win games, along with a good coach.

Duncan at his age gets a pass on anything. He is old and should be judged as such. What he is doing now is remarkable, and what his team is achieving year in year out is noteworthy.

Miami is different. They constructed a team with stars in their prime to win championships. The don't get a pass on anything, because the overwhelming talent they put together and age group of the core suggests that anything less than a championship is a failure.

Silk the clueless :facepalm

Was referring to LeBron's Cavalier teammates, not Miami. Should have specified better, but you're pretty stupid for thinking I was referring to Miami also.

[poido123]

Was referring to LeBron's Cavalier teammates, not Miami. Should have specified better, but you're pretty stupid for thinking I was referring to Miami also.


Well you stated at NO TIME did LeBron have superior talent to duncan, wouldn't that include LeBrons time at Miami?

Or am I supposed to pick up your telepathic messages...

[Prometheus]

This thread has beaten the word "choke" to death.

Anyone who uses that word to describe what LBJ did in 2009 clearly has no idea wtf they are talking about. He was an absolute BEAST playing on a team where no one else could score. They had no answer for Dwight down low and Orlando's 3pt shooters were absolutely on fire.

It's really worth pointing out that you guys who use "expected to win" as a criteria for anything are major hypocrites. ISH is supposed to be a place for people who really know basketball and care enough to pay attention to talk to each other. So you want to base your argument on what the media thought at the time? The media is ****ing brain dead. Of course ESPN would have favored the Cavaliers because of LeBron's "star power" but anyone who pays attention to the way the game is played knew Orlando was going to be a huge problem for them. It's just like in 2011, of course the media didn't expect Dallas to beat the 2-time defending champion Lakers, but those of us who know the game kind of saw it coming. Dallas was an extremely well-rounded team that year, with great defense and a lot of good three-point shooters who got hot at the right time... not to mention Dirk was playing out of his mind. So you really should stop using sports media expectations to decide anything at all, it's just stupid.

LeBron was mentally out of it in 2010. I would call it a "choke", although I think it's more accurate to say that he didn't care about the Cavs anymore. He knew that he could dominate and still would lose to the Celtics, and he was right. They are a far superior franchise, had a much better coach, and their roster was better by a hilarious margin. So he lost his focus and his drive to compete against them and his game fell off in that series.

2011 was obviously a choke job. I'm a huge LeBron fan and I've got nothing to say in his defense about that one. It was pathetic, pitiful, embarrassing, horrible... whatever you want to say. No excuses. Worst choke I've ever seen.

Outside of those two series, he's been phenomenal.

Kobe didn't exactly "choke" in 2004, but he was definitely a key factor in the Lakers' loss. He was sick of playing second-fiddle, felt he was entering his prime and needed to be dominant, and chucked them out of the series. He shot much more than Shaq on terrible efficiency, and played right into Detroit's game plan. They swarmed him on defense and were single covering O'Neal. The Lakers could have won that series if Kobe could have just recognized the situation, reacted appropriately, and swallowed his ****ing pride. Shaq should have averaged 5 more shots per game than he did, and Kobe should have been a 15ppg scorer for that series. But he is too proud, too selfish, and too full of himself and it cost them a championship.

Other than that, Kobe doesn't have any really memorable "choke" jobs, just piss poor efficiency and terrible percentage on game winners (7-30 in the playoffs last I checked). He never really choked in a big way, he just consistently choked to a lesser degree his entire career.

[KingBeasley08]

Chuckbe

[Mr Feeny]

ChuckbeI would have said Kobe except he's not that successful:oldlol: