ESPN: Joel Embiid to visit with Cavaliers

[RedBlackAttack]

Very interesting news by Andy Katz today. Not only is Embiid visiting the Cavaliers in the coming weeks, it's the only workout he has planned.

Katz also reports that his agents have given the Cavaliers a green light to examine his back.

Sounds like Embiid has no plans of being on the board past the first pick... which is great news.


Joel Embiid to visit with Cavaliers
By Andy Katz | ESPN.com

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2014/0528/nba_g_joelem_cr_300x300.jpg

The Cavaliers will visit with former Kansas center Joel Embiid sometime in the coming weeks and conduct a physical, a source told ESPN.

Embiid won't visit another team until the Cavaliers are given a chance to determine if they will select Embiid with the top pick in the NBA draft on June 26.

Embiid sat out the last six games of Kansas' season due to a stress fracture in his back, missing the Big 12 and NCAA tournaments. Embiid worked out for NBA personnel last week in Los Angeles.

The 7-foot Cameroon native has been projected as a likely top choice throughout the season. That's why Embiid won't visit with Milwaukee or Philadelphia, which have the next two picks, until Cleveland has a chance to review his case for No. 1.

Embiid's representatives and the Cavs are working toward finding an appropriate date, time and even perhaps place to conduct the interview and physical. The possibility remains it could be in Cleveland but that has not been determined.

Embiid did not attend the Chicago NBA pre-draft combine earlier this month where he would have undergone one physical, with the results available for all 30 NBA teams.

Cleveland still could deal the No. 1 pick, and that's another reason why Embiid's representatives want to see where the Cavs stand before offering up potential visits or interviews. The Sixers likely would have to move up to the No. 1 spot to get a chance to visit with Embiid.

Meanwhile, Embiid and Duke freshman Jabari Parker are represented by the same agency (Wasserman Group) and the source said the agency is planning visits based on Embiid and Parker going 1-2 in some order over Kansas freshman Andrew Wiggins.

Cleveland is still considering all three for the No. 1 pick.

That means Parker would visit with No. 2 Milwaukee at some point, and if Cleveland wanted to pass on Embiid then it would open up a Parker interview with the Cavs for the No. 1 spot.

The Cavs and the Wasserman Group will continue to talk this week in hopes they can set up a date for the meeting with Embiid and Cleveland.


http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10997749/potential-no-1-overall-pick-joel-embiid-visit-cleveland-cavaliers


Sounds to me like the Cavs have made it clear that, if his back checks out, he's going to be the pick... and Embiid's doctors/agent seem very confident the physical will be fine.

Good news, all the way around. :cheers:

[poido123]

Very interesting news by Andy Katz today. Not only is Embiid visiting the Cavaliers in the coming weeks, it's the only workout he has planned.

Katz also reports that his agents have given the Cavaliers a green light to examine his back.

Sounds like Embiid has no plans of being on the board past the first pick... which is great news.



http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/10997749/potential-no-1-overall-pick-joel-embiid-visit-cleveland-cavaliers



Good news, all the way around. :cheers:




I hope he does go to Cleveland.

You guys have some good fans, well at least on here anyways..

This guy will be a franchise player and an absolute nightmare to stop.

[Cocaine80s]

That means wiggins end up in milwaukee:cry:

[Inferno]

Kyrie
Waiters
?
TT / Bennett
Embiid

Solid core

[christian1923]

Smh passing up on wiggins and parker for a center is a mistake

[maybeshewill13]

Right choice.

[Milbuck]

****.

[KendrickPerkins]

He's gonna bust.

Wiggins should be the pick, imo.

[RedBlackAttack]

I hope he does go to Cleveland.

You guys have some good fans, well at least on here anyways..

This guy will be a franchise player and an absolute nightmare to stop.
The thought of he and Kyrie growing together for the next decade is just delicious. Embiid is the perfect compliment to Irving, imo. He's not the kind of guy who is going to need the ball in his hands constantly to have a huge impact, he's athletic enough to run the P&R and can already hit his jumper consistently out to 15-20 feet... so there's your pick-and-pop.

Then, there's the attention that Kyrie draws when he drives to the basket. Going to be very difficult for teams to play him that way with Embiid lurking around the rim.

Defensively, an intimidating presence around the rim will go a long way to solving the Cavs' issues over the last few seasons.

It's just a perfect match. He's exactly what we need. If I could have gone into a lab and constructed the kind of player the Cavs needed with the roster currently in place, it would look like Embiid.

Amazing that we're in this position.

[RedBlackAttack]

Kyrie
Waiters
?
TT / Bennett
Embiid

Solid core
Don't forget Varejao. He'll be a solid mentor for Embiid.

The Cavs have tons of cap space, so I'm assuming they're going to fill that SF spot either via free agency (Ariza or Hayward) or by trade.

One thing is for sure... the team will need outside shooting at the 3 with that lineup -- a floor spacer who can't be left undefended. Of the FAs available, Ariza would seem to be the most obvious choice.

[DukeDelonte13]

He's gonna bust.

Wiggins should be the pick, imo.


I'll eat my crow if he busts, but i'm of the belief that the cavs need to roll the dice on embiid.


Embiid's peak is easily best center in the league.

the kid is already at 265 pounds and has a 7'5'' wingspan. He will put on more weight for sure. He's so smooth and fluid. His feel for the game is amazing and he's only been playing 3-4 years.

[maybeshewill13]

He's gonna bust.

Wiggins should be the pick, imo.
I think the opposite

[LoneyROY7]

Great f***ing news. :applause:

As long as Wiggins isn't on the Cavs I'll be satisfied with the draft.

[Uncle Drew]

Smh passing up on wiggins and parker for a center is a mistakeHow is passing on a wingplayer for a center a mistake?

[LoneyROY7]

How is passing on a wingplayer over a center a mistake?

See Sam Bowie and Greg Oden.

[Jameerthefear]

We will see if that back holds up now won't we :)

[Uncle Drew]

See Sam Bowie and Greg Oden.
See Brandon Roy and Grant Hill.

[poido123]

Don't forget Varejao. He'll be a solid mentor for Embiid.

The Cavs have tons of cap space, so I'm assuming they're going to fill that SF spot either via free agency (Ariza or Hayward) or by trade.

One thing is for sure... the team will need outside shooting at the 3 with that lineup -- a floor spacer who can't be left undefended. Of the FAs available, Ariza would seem to be the most obvious choice.


Success will also make Cleveland a lot more attractive destination for players to go to.

If you guys manage to become very good, this might actually fix a lot of the stigma around the unprofessionalism of the Cavs.

[DukeDelonte13]

Don't forget Varejao. He'll be a solid mentor for Embiid.

The Cavs have tons of cap space, so I'm assuming they're going to fill that SF spot either via free agency (Ariza or Hayward) or by trade.

One thing is for sure... the team will need outside shooting at the 3 with that lineup -- a floor spacer who can't be left undefended. Of the FAs available, Ariza would seem to be the most obvious choice.


:applause:


man oh man... totally agree with you on this. Too many cavs fans are so quick to just dump Andy at the first chance possible. He's much more valuable to the cavs as a bench big/veteran than what his hypothetical return would be IMO.

Ever since i've been on the Embiid train i've been really hoping the cavs keep Andy.

[LoneyROY7]

See Brandon Roy and Grant Hill.

Were Brandon Roy and Grant Hill picked over Michael Jordan and Kevin Durant?

[Jameerthefear]

Don't want little Embiid to get injured for the rest of his life because of a terrible back injury! I hope he does ok :)

[DukeDelonte13]

We will see if that back holds up now won't we :)


We won't see until he plays a few seasons healthy.

[Uncle Drew]

Were Brandon Roy and Grant Hill picked over Michael Jordan and Kevin Durant?
No, I was just referring to the general thought about big men and injuries. Wing players can get injured too, so, for instance, Roy, Hill, McGrady.

FYI, hindsight, the Blazers made two logic picks with Oden and Bowie.

[DukeDelonte13]

No, I was just referring to the general thought about big men and injuries. Wing players can get injured too, so, for instance, Roy, Hill, McGrady.

FYI, hindsight, the Blazers made two logic picks with Oden and Bowie.

Oden was a monster at OSU and was hailed as the next great center. He had a more serious pre college injury history though. He already had a hip surgery.

[LoneyROY7]

No, I was just referring to the general thought about big men and injuries. Wing players can get injured too, so, for instance, Roy, Hill, McGrady.

FYI, hindsight, the Blazers made two logic picks with Oden and Bowie.

It was logical at the time because neither team put enough merit into both players propensity for injury.

I'm just saying, don't be shocked if Wiggins ends up being the higher impact player.

[RedBlackAttack]

No, I was just referring to the general thought about big men and injuries. Wing players can get injured too, so, for instance, Roy, Hill, McGrady.

FYI, hindsight, the Blazers made two logic picks with Oden and Bowie.
...and Brandon Roy.

They've had a horrible string of luck with injuries to both their young bigs and wings. Injuries can happen any time to any player. You don't pass on the best prospect in the draft out of fear.

If there's something to fear in the MRI, that's one thing, but if it is just fear for the sake of fear, then you're making a big mistake.

Reports are coming out that Embiid could have played in the tournament, but they were extra-cautious with him because of his bright professional career.

He's the pick... and passing will haunt the organization for the next decade. I truly believe that. Guys don't come around like this too often. I think he has both the highest ceiling and the highest floor in the draft.

At worst, we're getting a suped up, 7-foot Ibaka. That's the worst case scenario I see outside of an injury.

[RedBlackAttack]

Oden was a monster at OSU and was hailed as the next great center. He had a more serious pre college injury history though. He already had a hip surgery.
Oden also had a very strange frame and never moved even close to as fluidly as Embiid. I also believe one of Oden's legs is longer than the other, which is always a big red flag.

I don't want to downplay Oden... he was probably more polished than Embiid coming into the league and looked like a potential monster. But, he also didn't move like Joel, who looks more like a SF than a C when you watch him play.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well Greg Oden not only ruins himself, but also the reputation of centers of this generation. It will take a lot for Embiid to regain this.

[christian1923]

How is passing on a wingplayer for a center a mistake?
Bigs don't stay healthy. And wing players are the ones winning championships

[RedBlackAttack]

Well Greg Oden not only ruins himself, but also the reputation of centers of this generation. It will take a lot for Embiid to regain this.
The fall of Andre Drummond in the draft has already gone a long way to easing those fears. Lots of teams now regret allowing him to fall. Btw, Drummond had the same exact injury that Embiid had. It didn't seem to hurt his impact this past season.


That reminds me... want to see something scary? You know how big Drummond looks when he's on the floor?

______________

Joel Embiid - 7'1 height, 265 pounds, 7'5.75 wingspan, 9'5.5 standing reach

______________


Anthony Davis - 6'10.5 height, 220 pounds, 7'5.5 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

Andre Drummond - 6'11.75 height, 270 pounds, 7'6.25 wingspan, 9'1.5 standing reach

Dwight Howard - 6'10.25 height, 240 pounds, 7' 4.5 wingspan, 9' 3.5 standing reach

Roy Hibbert - 7'2 height, 278 pounds, 7'4 wingspan, 9'4 standing reach

LaMarcus Aldridge - 6'11.25 height, 240 pounds, 7' 4.75 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach

Nerlens Noel - 6'11.75 height, 210 pounds, 7'3.75 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach



...that standing reach is just :eek: .

[chocolatethunder]

He's gonna bust.

Wiggins should be the pick, imo.
He's the smart pick for Cleveland or anyone for that matter but for sure Cleveland. Him being on the court automatically makes the game easier for Irving and Waiters. I want wiggins on the Sixers by he would have that impact on Cleveland.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well Andre Drummond is a different story, hes more like a Mutombo/Camby type player that is meant to be much more of a rebounder than an offensive center. I'd never imagine Drummond averaging anything close to 20ppg, his offensive game just aint there.

[Trentknicks]

The fall of Andre Drummond in the draft has already gone a long way to easing those fears. Lots of teams now regret allowing him to fall. Btw, Drummond had the same exact injury that Embiid had. It didn't seem to hurt his impact this past season.


That reminds me... want to see something scary? You know how big Drummond looks when he's on the floor?

Joel Embiid - 7'1 height, 7'5.75 wingspan, 9'5.5 standing reach

Wow. That standing reach is just completely absurd. Let's put that in perspective, shall we? These are the guys who are considered to have freakish length around the league.


Anthony Davis - 6'10.5 height, 7'5.5 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

Andre Drummond - 6'11.75 height, 7'6.25 wingspan, 9'1.5 standing reach

Dwight Howard - 6'10.25 height, 7' 4.5 wingspan, 9' 3.5 standing reach

Roy Hibbert - 7'2 height, 7'4 wingspan, 9'4 standing reach

LaMarcus Aldridge - 6'11.25 height, 7' 4.75 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach

Nerlens Noel - 6'11.75 height, 7'3.75 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach



...that standing reach is just :eek: .
So Dwight's 1.5 inches shorter than Drummond and has 1.75 inches LESS in the wingspan department but has a 2 inch higher standing reach?

[RedBlackAttack]

So Dwight's 1.5 inches shorter than Drummond and has 1.75 inches LESS in the wingspan department but has a 2 inch higher standing reach?
That's really where DHo is freakishly built. He has a relatively thin/long torso. And, to think Embiid still has him by a full two inches in standing reach? Crazy. That's getting into Wilt Chamberlain territory.

[Uncle Drew]

Bigs don't stay healthy. And wing players are the ones winning championships
What? You need elite bigs on your team in order to win a championship, unless your team has MJ or Bran.

[Kiddlovesnets]

What? You need elite bigs on your team in order to win a championship, unless your team has MJ or Bran.

Wiggins is the next Lebron.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wiggins is the next Lebron.
His game really couldn't be less like LeBron's. They have pretty much nothing in common, outside of both being incredible natural athletes.

[chocolatethunder]

Wiggins is the next Lebron.
Yes. Minus the dribbling and passing he's exactly like him. I'm a Wiggins fan and want him on the Sixers but please tell me how their games are similar?

[RedBlackAttack]

Yes. Minus the dribbling and passing he's exactly like him. I'm a Wiggins fan and want him on the Sixers but please tell me how their games are similar?
Anyone who has studied these guys should :oldlol: at that comment, and I'm no Wiggins hater. I think he could end up being really good, but in a completely different kind of way.

[Uncle Drew]

Wiggins is the next Lebron.
:facepalm

[DukeDelonte13]

The fall of Andre Drummond in the draft has already gone a long way to easing those fears. Lots of teams now regret allowing him to fall. Btw, Drummond had the same exact injury that Embiid had. It didn't seem to hurt his impact this past season.


That reminds me... want to see something scary? You know how big Drummond looks when he's on the floor?

______________

Joel Embiid - 7'1 height, 265 pounds, 7'5.75 wingspan, 9'5.5 standing reach

______________


Anthony Davis - 6'10.5 height, 220 pounds, 7'5.5 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

Andre Drummond - 6'11.75 height, 270 pounds, 7'6.25 wingspan, 9'1.5 standing reach

Dwight Howard - 6'10.25 height, 240 pounds, 7' 4.5 wingspan, 9' 3.5 standing reach

Roy Hibbert - 7'2 height, 278 pounds, 7'4 wingspan, 9'4 standing reach

LaMarcus Aldridge - 6'11.25 height, 240 pounds, 7' 4.75 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach

Nerlens Noel - 6'11.75 height, 210 pounds, 7'3.75 wingspan, 9'2 standing reach



...that standing reach is just :eek: .


can't wait to hear the results of the physical

[chocolatethunder]

Anyone who has studied these guys should :oldlol: at that comment, and I'm no Wiggins hater. I think he could end up being really good, but in a completely different kind of way.
Why can't Wiggins just be himself? He's a kid, he's raw, he's going to develop into something but it's not going to be like Lebron and that's just fine.

[RedBlackAttack]

Why can't Wiggins just be himself? He's a kid, he's raw, he's going to develop into something but it's not going to be like Lebron and that's just fine.
Agreed.

In any other draft, Wiggins' insane athleticism would probably be too much for me to resist at No. 1, even with the more polished Parker available.

But, Embiid is an incredibly rare breed, especially in today's day and age of unskilled centers and PFs posing as centers. He's a throwback.

[christian1923]

What? You need elite bigs on your team in order to win a championship, unless your team has MJ or Bran.
Idk man I don't see many elite bigs out there in the playoffs. All the great ones have gone home already.

I'll take the wing who will probably give me 15 years over the big who will start breaking down in a couple years. Humans aren't meant to be 7'1 lol

[j3lademaster]

So Dwight's 1.5 inches shorter than Drummond and has 1.75 inches LESS in the wingspan department but has a 2 inch higher standing reach?Only explanation I can think for this is that some take measurements telling the player to raise one arm and some take the measurement actually asking the player to reach upwards. That or Dwight's arms just aren't that long and most of it is shoulder width, but Drummond's got pretty big shoulders as well. I'd go with the former.

[Uncle Drew]

Idk man I don't see many elite bigs out there in the playoffs. All the great ones have gone home already.

I'll take the wing who will probably give me 15 years over the big who will start breaking down in a couple years. Humans aren't meant to be 7'1 lol
The only teams in the past 30 years who won a championship without an elite big, would be current Miami, MJ's Chicago and the Detroit Bad Boys.

[RedBlackAttack]

Idk man I don't see many elite bigs out there in the playoffs. All the great ones have gone home already.

I'll take the wing who will probably give me 15 years over the big who will start breaking down in a couple years. Humans aren't meant to be 7'1 lol
There aren't really any "great" ones in the league. That's the whole point. You think if you put a prime Shaq or a prime Olajuwon in today's NBA they wouldn't dominate?

Come on, man.

[chocolatethunder]

Agreed.

In any other draft, Wiggins' insane athleticism would probably be too much for me to resist at No. 1, even with the more polished Parker available.

But, Embiid is an incredibly rare breed, especially in today's day and age of unskilled centers and PFs posing as centers. He's a throwback.
There's no way to justify passing on Embiid if his back checks out. People who know nothing about basketball bring up Sam Bowie and Oden. Why would Portland draft Jordan when they had Clyde and needed a big? No one knew Jordan would be Jordan. And why would Portland draft Durant when they had a stud permiter player in Roy? You can always second guess draft choices after the fact. Plenty of wings/guards get hurt too. The number one pick was a dumb lick Gift to Cleveland get should take a risk. Embiid is the only choice for them. Irving and Waiters will look so much better with him on the floor. His prescense gives opens up the whole floor for those two.

[RedBlackAttack]

Only explanation I can think for this is that some take measurements telling the player to raise one arm and some take the measurement actually asking the player to reach upwards. That or Dwight's arms just aren't that long and most of it is shoulder width, but Drummond's got pretty big shoulders as well. I'd go with the former.
It's really not that uncommon for a guy to have a freakish wingspan and average standing reach or vice versa. They're two totally different measurements.

Check out DraftExpress' database... lots of weird body shapes/sizes.

[Johnny Jones]

Don't forget Varejao. He'll be a solid mentor for Embiid.

The Cavs have tons of cap space, so I'm assuming they're going to fill that SF spot either via free agency (Ariza or Hayward) or by trade.

One thing is for sure... the team will need outside shooting at the 3 with that lineup -- a floor spacer who can't be left undefended. Of the FAs available, Ariza would seem to be the most obvious choice.
Never trust Ariza in contract years...

[christian1923]

There aren't really any "great" ones in the league. That's the whole point. You think if you put a prime Shaq or a prime Olajuwon in today's NBA they wouldn't dominate?

Come on, man.
They would but I'm just not risking it with embiid if I were the GM. Bigs haven't been working out for teams lately. Even Anthony Davis is often injured, Howard just had the back, bogut, oden, Lopez. I don't like it

[RedBlackAttack]

Never trust Ariza in contract years...
Meh, all he'd have to do on this team is shoot and defend. I think he's capable of that much, even if he has been a bit overrated in the past.

[RedBlackAttack]

They would but I'm just not risking it with embiid if I were the GM. Bigs haven't been working out for teams lately. Even Anthony Davis is often injured, Howard just had the back, bogut, oden, Lopez. I don't like it
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think really studying the kind of prospect we're talking about here would probably change your mind. My initial reaction when the Cavs got the No. 1 pick was to take Wiggins.

I don't really pay that much attention to college basketball and generally only start studying up on guys around draft time. I had assumed we'd be picking in the 8-10 range, so I wasn't even really looking at the top of the board.


It took all of about three hours of watching Embiid's game tape before I was sold. He is a rare, rare prospect. Davis is the most recent big with the crazy potential (and he's largely lived up to it), but he's still not a true center yet. He's more of a PF/C combo.

Embiid is a real center... 7-1, 265 pounds... with the skills/movements/athleticism of a SF. His ceiling is scary.

You just can't pass.

[christian1923]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think really studying the kind of prospect we're talking about here would probably change your mind. My initial reaction when the Cavs got the No. 1 pick was to take Wiggins.

I don't really pay that much attention to college basketball and generally only start studying up on guys around draft time. I had assumed we'd be picking in the 8-10 range, so I wasn't even really looking at the top of the board.


It took all of about three hours of watching Embiid's game tape before I was sold. He is a rare, rare prospect. Davis is the most recent big with the crazy potential (and he's largely lived up to it), but he's still not a true center yet. He's more of a PF/C combo.

Embiid is a real center... 7-1, 265 pounds... with the skills/movements/athleticism of a SF. His ceiling is scary.

You just can't pass.
You put 18 year old Lebron in this draft not knowing what you know now. Who do you take first?

[DukeDelonte13]

They would but I'm just not risking it with embiid if I were the GM. Bigs haven't been working out for teams lately. Even Anthony Davis is often injured, Howard just had the back, bogut, oden, Lopez. I don't like it


well embiid is about to be examined by the cavs. If they do take or pass they will have done their due diligence.

[chocolatethunder]

They would but I'm just not risking it with embiid if I were the GM. Bigs haven't been working out for teams lately. Even Anthony Davis is often injured, Howard just had the back, bogut, oden, Lopez. I don't like it
I'm finally beginning to see your logic. You should never draft a big. That's a great idea.

Life's a gamble. If you don't risk anything then you get nothing. There's no reward in being a pvssy. Pvssies get fvcked. Grow a pair and make the right pick.

[christian1923]

I'm finally beginning to see your logic. You should never draft a big. That's a great idea.

Life's a gamble. If you don't risk anything then you get nothing. There's no reward in being a pvssy. Pvssies get fvcked. Grow a pair and make the right pick.
You're acting like wiggins and Parker arnt HUGE talents. :coleman: it takes more balls too pass on the big guy then it does to take him. Teams ALWAYS take the big.

[IamRAMBO24]

If the cavs are depending on Varejao to mentor Embiid, they're in a lot of trouble.

[chocolatethunder]

You're acting like wiggins and Parker arnt HUGE talents. :coleman: it takes more balls too pass on the big guy then it does to take him. Teams ALWAYS take the big.
It's not about always taking the big. It's about taking a big whose improvement has been exponential and whose ceiling is higher than either of the other two players in the draft. At this point he's easliy more skilled than Wiggins and has a bigger upside. Parker is more developed but with a lower ceiling. Embiid is easliy the most skilled big in a long time and is only getting better and better. If I were the Sixers I wouldn't take him because they need a wing. Cleveland doesn't need a wing the desperately need a big and the big with the most potential in the last 10 years was just gift wrapped for them.

[IamRAMBO24]

I'm finally beginning to see your logic. You should never draft a big. That's a great idea.

Life's a gamble. If you don't risk anything then you get nothing. There's no reward in being a pvssy. Pvssies get fvcked. Grow a pair and make the right pick.

If the cavs really wanted to gamble, they wouldn't pick Embiid since he is the clear choice. Bigs are overrated. The Bowie comparison is fair since it pinpoints on the failure of choosing size over talent. This formula has failed miserably considering some of the best players in the game are small (Iverson, Paul, Stockton, Kidd, etc. all come to mind).

[IamRAMBO24]

It's not about always taking the big. It's about taking a big whose improvement has been exponential and whose ceiling is higher than either of the other two players in the draft. At this point he's easliy more skilled than Wiggins and has a bigger upside. Parker is more developed but with a lower ceiling. Embiid is easliy the most skilled big in a long time and is only getting better and better. If I were the Sixers I wouldn't take him because they need a wing. Cleveland doesn't need a wing the desperately need a big and the big with the most potential in the last 10 years was just gift wrapped for them.

Drafting out of necissity is also stupid. If a team has the most talented player up for grabs (Jordan), then they should draft him anyways. The roster can always be worked around and the veteran can serve as a mentor for the newcomer until he takes over. There should be no reason why Bowie was picked over Jordan. It was stupid. Period. And the justification sounds the same. If Embiid is indeed a rare talent, then he should go first, but it sounds more like the Cavs are just winging it and will prob overlook the back injury.

[RedBlackAttack]

Drafting out of necissity is also stupid. If a team has the most talented player up for grabs (Jordan), then they should draft him anyways. The roster can always be worked around and the veteran can serve as a mentor for the newcomer until he takes over. There should be no reason why Bowie was picked over Jordan. It was stupid. Period. And the justification sounds the same. If Embiid is indeed a rare talent, then he should go first, but it sounds more like the Cavs are just winging it and will prob overlook the back injury.
Have you been following the scouting reports and general sentiment of those close to the league leading up to the draft? The consensus points to Embiid being the best prospect in a very good draft.

Literally every person at his workout last week said he should be the No. 1 pick without question.

[RedBlackAttack]

You put 18 year old Lebron in this draft not knowing what you know now. Who do you take first?
LeBron. But I do think he's the best prospect since James.

[chocolatethunder]

Drafting out of necissity is also stupid. If a team has the most talented player up for grabs (Jordan), then they should draft him anyways. The roster can always be worked around and the veteran can serve as a mentor for the newcomer until he takes over. There should be no reason why Bowie was picked over Jordan. It was stupid. Period. And the justification sounds the same. If Embiid is indeed a rare talent, then he should go first, but it sounds more like the Cavs are just winging it and will prob overlook the back injury.
Bowie was a really good college player. No one knew that Jordan would be Jordan. So Portland should have just drafted a bunch of two guards like Kahn w PGs in Minnesota? You have to draft a combo of both. There is no "most talented" player available, it's always subjective. Sam Bowie was a straight up stud in college who was hurt but had come back and played well. The Cavs will do their due diligence and if they feel comfortable then they will select him. So he's had an injury does that mean he should go fourth? Fifth? 10th? Which slot would be justifiers selecting him?

[chocolatethunder]

LeBron. But I do think he's the best prospect since James.
Embiid is easily the best prospect since Lebron. That doesn't mean he'll pan out but not every player does.

[IamRAMBO24]

Bowie was a really good college player. No one knew that Jordan would be Jordan. So Portland should have just drafted a bunch of two guards like Kahn w PGs in Minnesota? You have to draft a combo of both. There is no "most talented" player available, it's always subjective. Sam Bowie was a straight up stud in college who was hurt but had come back and played well. The Cavs will do their due diligence and if they feel comfortable then they will select him. So he's had an injury does that mean he should go fourth? Fifth? 10th? Which slot would be justifiers selecting him?

It was clear Jordan was way and above beyond Bowie. Jordan was passed over because of position and necissity, which seems to be the same formula the Cavs are using on Embiid. I don't even think Embiid is the most talented in that draft class. If Oden has taught us anything, choosing a player with an injury way before an nba minute logged in is just a horrible idea.

[RedBlackAttack]

It was clear Jordan was way and above beyond Bowie. Jordan was passed over because of position and necissity, which seems to be the same formula the Cavs are using on Embiid. I don't even think Embiid is the most talented in that draft class. If Oden has taught us anything, choosing a player with an injury way before an nba minute logged in is just a horrible idea.
Why do you keep saying this when you have exactly zero evidence to support it? The Cavs have a major need for both a center and a SF. Actually, the bigger need is probably SF since our current starter would probably be Alonzo Gee. And we have Varejao at center already on the roster.

This pick will not be made on "need," but who they determine is the best prospect. The vast majority believe it is Embiid.

[Milbuck]

I don't see how Embiid is clearly the best prospect since Lebron. Davis is up there, it's definitely debatable. The guy was hyped up like crazy and he's matching it so far..he was putting up 21/10/3/2/3 before he hit the legal drinking age. 40-20 game at 21 is no joke.

[CavaliersFTW]

See Sam Bowie and Greg Oden.
See Lew Alcindor, Shaquille O'Neal or Wilt Chamberlain for the complete opposite.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Embiid is easily the best prospect since Lebron. That doesn't mean he'll pan out but not every player does.

Bullshit, Davis was more highly touted coming into college and had a much better single college season.

It's also highly likely that he'll be a better pro. Even if Embiid reaches his full potential and averages 23/11/3 for the next decade, he'll be right on par with what Davis is already doing at age 20.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Davis is injury prone as hell. I honestly don't see him reaching full potential. Reminds me alot of CP3 in that regard. CP3's peak got cut very short because he wa just prone to blowing something in his body.

He's had some injuries, but he was so skinny coming out of college that it's to be expected. Embiid isn't exactly a picture of health either, back problems at age 19 on a 7 footer who may still be growing isn't exactly a good sign.

[DStebb716]

http://i.imgur.com/f73EyaY.jpg

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't see how Embiid is clearly the best prospect since Lebron. Davis is up there, it's definitely debatable. The guy was hyped up like crazy and he's matching it so far..he was putting up 21/10/3/2/3 before he hit the legal drinking age. 40-20 game at 21 is no joke.
I agree... it's not "clear." But, I do happen to agree.

First of all, this is widely considered the best draft since '03, so the guy sitting at the top has a strong case just based on the fact that he's seemingly beating out Wiggins/Parker... who are, in their own right, two of the most highly coveted players since the 2003 draft.

Beyond that, there isn't an area of the game where Embiid isn't oozing with elite talent. From his footwork/postgame to his 15-20 footer to his rebounding to his shot-blocking... even his passing looks potentially elite for a big man.


But, others certainly have a case. Both Oden and Durant were seen as almost "can't miss" prospects. Anthony Davis is also in the conversation.

I'd say those four... Embiid, Durant, Oden and Davis.

[RedBlackAttack]

http://i.imgur.com/f73EyaY.jpg

:bowdown:

Love it.

[Johnny Jones]

Davis is injury prone as hell. I honestly don't see him reaching full potential. Reminds me alot of CP3 in that regard. CP3's peak got cut very short because he was just prone to blowing something in his body.
It's almost like you forgot about the concerns with embiid's back

[fiddy]

Kyrie
Waiters
?
TT / Bennett
Embiid

Solid core
?=Bran

[RedBlackAttack]

Bullshit, Davis was more highly touted coming into college and had a much better single college season.

It's also highly likely that he'll be a better pro. Even if Embiid reaches his full potential and averages 23/11/3 for the next decade, he'll be right on par with what Davis is already doing at age 20.
What separates Embiid from Davis is that AD is essentially a PF/C combo right now.

Coming into the draft...

Joel Embiid - 7'1 height, 265 pounds, 7'5.75 wingspan, 9'5.5 standing reach

Anthony Davis - 6'10.5 height, 220 pounds, 7'5.5 wingspan, 9'0 standing reach

He has pretty significant physical advantages pretty much across the board... and he shows elite potential pretty much everywhere... footwork/post, shooting, rebounding, lobs, transition, passing, defense, blocking shots... even stealing the ball.

Sure, he's still learning and growing as a player, but the fact that he's already this far along having only played basketball for four years is incredible.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Well, as much as I would like to see the kid succeed, just can't root for the Franchise. See you in 5 years Joel.

[RedBlackAttack]

Well, as much as I would like to see the kid succeed, just can't root for the Franchise. See you in 5 years Joel.
What happens in five years?

[poido123]

What happens in five years?


He's assuming that a core of Irving, waiters, TT, varejao, bennett, embiid and whoever else joins the team cannot be successful :rolleyes:

[russwest0]

Damn, I doubt it's likely but imagine if the Cavs can retain Deng as well

[RedBlackAttack]

He's assuming that a core of Irving, waiters, TT, varejao, bennett, embiid and whoever else joins the team cannot be successful :rolleyes:
Yeah, I got that... just wasn't sure what he thinks is going to happen in five years, specifically.

In general, when you draft a guy who turns out to be worth a max extension, he's pretty well locked up for the first 7-8 years of his career.

If he's counting on Embiid going to the Cavs and being available for someone else five years from now, I wouldn't hold my breath. People are seriously salty following the lottery, but really their anger is about math, not the Cavs.

[RedBlackAttack]

Damn, I doubt it's likely but imagine if the Cavs can retain Deng as well
Deng is done here. Too many burned bridges, too much money and he looks like he needs a walker half the time when he's on the floor.

Thibs really ran him into the ground. Incredible that Deng turned down three years, $30 million to stay in Chicago. From what I saw, he's not worth close to $10 million a year.

But, on a personal level, he didn't exactly endear himself to Cleveland when he showed up with a sh!tty attitude and almost immediately went to the press complaining about the front office, coaching staff and his teammates.

Really disappointed in the way Deng handled his time here. He was brought in to be a leader and he ended up being arguably the most divisive force in the whole locker room. We'll get rid of him in some kind of S&T I'm sure.

[poido123]

Yeah, I got that... just wasn't sure what he thinks is going to happen in five years, specifically.

In general, when you draft a guy who turns out to be worth a max extension, he's pretty well locked up for the first 7-8 years of his career.

If he's counting on Embiid going to the Cavs and being available for someone else five years from now, I wouldn't hold my breath. People are seriously salty following the lottery, but really their anger is about math, not the Cavs.


I'm assuming he thinks the rookie contract runs out after 5 years?

Anyways, I agree with you, so many posters on here salty about the lottery outcome and jealous the Cavs got the 1st pick.

Embiid should be and will be drafted by the Cavs IMO.

[poido123]

Deng is done here. Too many burned bridges, too much money and he looks like he needs a walker half the time when he's on the floor.

Thibs really ran him into the ground. Incredible that Deng turned down three years, $30 million to stay in Chicago. From what I saw, he's not worth close to $10 million a year.

But, on a personal level, he didn't exactly endear himself to Cleveland when he showed up with a sh!tty attitude and almost immediately went to the press complaining about the front office, coaching staff and his teammates.

Really disappointed in the way Deng handled his time here. He was brought in to be a leader and he ended up being arguably the most divisive force in the whole locker room. We'll get rid of him in some kind of S&T I'm sure.


Bulls fans were told for years that Rose had all the help he needs to win a title with no excuses. Deng is a one dimensional scorer, who cannot create his own offense. I worry about the Bulls management when they offered him that kind of money at that stage of his career.. :rolleyes:

[hangintheair]

An Ariza-Deng trade would be good.

[kennethgriffin]

That means wiggins end up in milwaukee:cry:

the bucks will turn into a premier franchise if that happened though

wiggins is by far the best pick at #1. even if embiid is better.


wiggins brings that kobe/lebron/durant aspect of hype to the table. he'l sell tickets and get them on national tv

embiid wont

why bother drafting one guy with potential over another guy with potential when only one of them is a super mega star with branding power.

the bucks will be in the top 3 in jersey sales next year


it would be a huuuuuuuuge mistake not to take him #1

[Milbuck]

Giannis-Wiggins would be the nastiest wing duo in the league in 4-5 years, as Kyrie-Embiid would be the nastiest big man/little man duo in the league. Philly with MCW/Jabari/Noel would have a pretty sick core as well. Hopefully the Wizards and Hornets keep improving. The Eastern conference will be back in a few years.

[kennethgriffin]

Giannis-Wiggins would be the nastiest wing duo in the league in 4-5 years, as Kyrie-Embiid would be the nastiest big man/little man duo in the league. Philly with MCW/Jabari/Noel would have a pretty sick core as well. Hopefully the Wizards and Hornets keep improving. The Eastern conference will be back in a few years.


i'm buying a bucks wiggins jersey... maybe parker and whoever lakers draft.

no way im getting an embiid jersey... cavs would be insane not to draft a cash machine like wiggins

[BigTicket]

Great news for the Cavaliers. This means that Embiid would actually like to play for us, and that he believes his back is ok, otherwise he would not take the physical.

[East_Stone_Ya]

**** the cavs if they gonna pick him first

[Balla_Status]

How many first picks have the Cavs had? ****ing christ. Get better already.

[All Net]

Wishing the Cavs all the best. Really would love to see them back to being a top team in the east and back in the playoffs. They have great fans and a few of them on here have stayed loyal through the years without Lebron. I think with cap space and this young core the future is bright. We need more talent in the east.

[DukeDelonte13]

How many first picks have the Cavs had? ****ing christ. Get better already.


i mean they kinda did, they went from being the second worst team in the league to the 9th worst, they just happened to get super ultra lucky.

Cavs roster is still too young...

[DukeDelonte13]

i'm buying a bucks wiggins jersey... maybe parker and whoever lakers draft.

no way im getting an embiid jersey... cavs would be insane not to draft a cash machine like wiggins


i hear you on that.

Wiggs def. has more star power now, but Embiid's potential is just too high.


I really don't think the cavs can go wrong with either wiggins, embiid, or even parker, but Embiid to me has to be the choice if you are cleveland.

BTW a bucks wiggins jersey would be dope.

[Kblaze8855]

Anyways, I agree with you, so many posters on here salty about the lottery outcome and jealous the Cavs got the 1st pick.


Im sure a lot of it is similar to when the Clippers got the first pick and Blake. Teams that are poorly run are annoying to see great prospects go to if only for the good of the player and the league.

Add an annoying owner who has made himself the story in the past?

I can see why people wouldnt want to watch more top picks melt away on the Cavs.

That said.....it worked out with the Clippers.

If you do it right and turn things around....I dont care where anyone goes. Just want to see good ball and not have potentially good careers sidetracked with shitty decisions on coaches, bad signings, bad lockerrooms, and so on that often come with long losing franchises.

Id almost like the Cavs to take someone like Parker with less upside but fewer questions.

A bad back having raw but potential filled bigman going to a shaky franchise?

The "What could have been..." themed 30 for 30 almost writes itself.

Im holding up judgment till I see the coaching hire. But I can see how Embiid to Cleveland wouldnt fill non Cavs fans with confidence.

People want to see great players have great careers.

Jazz dont swap picks with the Lakers and Magic ends up in Utah....a terribly run team at the time....

The league is worse for it. Our enjoyment of the game is reduced. Magic is not who we remember. Still great. And he likely turns the team around in time.

But some situations are just too good to be true. Magic to the Lakers was one such situation.

Hell Lebron to the Cavs was too. Was nice to see Kyrie end up a good player. They needed something to show for that awful post Lebron season. But the last few years just dont fill me with hope for what they do with someone like Joel who needs guidance, a good situation, and most of all to stay healthy.

The injury bug bigman always scares me.

But again....Blake worked out.

They could turn it around. And I hope they do.

But I dont think all concerns about them getting the pick stem from jealousy.

[DukeDelonte13]

Im sure a lot of it is similar to when the Clippers got the first pick and Blake. Teams that are poorly run are annoying to see great prospects go to if only for the good of the player and the league.

Add an annoying owner who has made himself the story in the past?

I can see why people wouldnt want to watch more top picks melt away on the Cavs.

That said.....it worked out with the Clippers.

If you do it right and turn things around....I dont care where anyone goes. Just want to see good ball and not have potentially good careers sidetracked with shitty decisions on coaches, bad signings, bad lockerrooms, and so on that often come with long losing franchises.

Id almost like the Cavs to take someone like Parker with less upside but fewer questions.

A bad back having raw but potential filled bigman going to a shaky franchise?

The "What could have been..." themed 30 for 30 almost writes itself.

Im holding up judgment till I see the coaching hire. But I can see how Embiid to Cleveland wouldnt fill non Cavs fans with confidence.

People want to see great players have great careers.

Jazz dont swap picks with the Lakers and Magic ends up in Utah....a terribly run team at the time....

The league is worse for it. Our enjoyment of the game is reduced. Magic is not who we remember. Still great. And he likely turns the team around in time.

But some situations are just too good to be true. Magic to the Lakers was one such situation.

Hell Lebron to the Cavs was too. Was nice to see Kyrie end up a good player. They needed something to show for that awful post Lebron season. But the last few years just dont fill me with hope for what they do with someone like Joel who needs guidance, a good situation, and most of all to stay healthy.

The injury bug bigman always scares me.

But again....Blake worked out.

They could turn it around. And I hope they do.

But I dont think all concerns about them getting the pick stem from jealousy.


people act like the cavs made terrible desicions when in reality they really didn't...


Compare cleveland's rebuild to detroit's right now..

Did Cleveland overspend on crappy free agents w/ long term deals? No.

Did Cleveland trade away their own first rounders? No.

Did Cleveland **** up any of their picks?

Kyrie? Nope.

TT? Nope.

Dion? Nope.

Zeller? Nope.

Bennett? Maybe, but still early to tell.


Biggest mistake i think they made was getting rid of Chris Grant and Mike Brown, Grant should have been allowed to complete his 5 year plan and Mike should have at the very least gotten another season.

The decision to get rid of Mike cost them a season of development. It was a mistake IMO, but let's not act like the cavs have been a garbage fire.

They still have tons of cap space and a lot of young talent, and they aren't tied in to any bad contracts.

EDIT: A lot of people are seemingly assuming that the cavs were just as bad as they were the previous season, and it wasn't the case. While they did dissapoint, they did go through a bit of a roster upheaval, were learning an entirely new system, were still very very young, and dealt with bad injuries at key stretches of the season. Kyrie didn't take the step forward he was expected to, but TT, Dion, and Zeller all took steps forward in their development.

[deja vu]

Picking Embiid over Wiggins would be a massive mistake. It would be Sam Bowie over Jordan all over again.

[Meticode]

Picking Embiid over Wiggins would be a massive mistake. It would be Sam Bowie over Jordan all over again.
This is what I worry about, but you take a chance I suppose.

[Kblaze8855]

Lets not go into the draft thing...

In hindsight everyone could do better. If the Cavs backcourt right now were Kyrie and Lillard with Drummond at the 5 with Parker or Wiggins going #1 this is a very different conversation....even with their backcourt giving back 80% of the points they score.

The point isnt that the Cavs cant possibly turn it around.

Its that their history doesnt inspire confidence and its not an exciting situation to send the next great bigman prospect into with a bad back, coaches in rotation, and a fanbase in need of a shot in the arm(They fell to 23rd in home attendance by percentage).

It really isnt even about the city. You didnt see anyone saying Cleveland wasnt the ideal situation for Lebron. Local guy....turning around a team that needed it. Exciting for a team that needed league relevance again.

It just made sense. The prospect of it was appealing to watch.

Embiid?

I just...really really really hope hes healthy.

If this kid flames out you are gonna hear about it for the next 30 years.

When the Pistons took Darko even with all the hype he had it was known that Melo would be better right away. but they didnt need an exciting young star to spark a new era. They were already good and headed towards great.

Thats why they really arent that bashed for it. Won a ring anyway.

This is almost like the Nuggets or Cavs taking Darko. You pass up on the potential superstar swingmen when they can step right in and be something...you better be damn sure of your bigman.

Darko was a mystery because...who had seen him?

Joel is a mystery because bad backs have ruined the careers of guys half his size. The giant athletic center with spinal issues?

I really really do hope all this becomes just draft talk people forget when hes a hall of famer.

But if it isnt its gonna set the Cavs back like hell.

The Cavs arent in a situation id say shoot for the moon in. They are in a situation id say....get the guy you can be pretty sure...is good.

Parker. Even Wiggins has question marks from many.

Parker is this drafts Melo/Pierce. Maybe not as good. But nobody could look back and ask what you were thinking.

At some point they have to play it a little bit safe dont they?

This pick doesnt work out its another fired coach, perhaps a fired GM, and 4 years from now we are still talking about the Cavs being a team of the future.

It may not sound like it....but I do not want that to happen.

More than anything...I just hope the tlk about his back is unfounded. If hes healthy...I have nothing at all to say about him going #1.

[jbryan1984]

I would rather have Jabari Parker. Just seems like the best all around player between he, Wiggins and Emblid. We are weak at the 3 and the 5. But, we still have Andy and Zeller at center at least. Gonna be insteresting to see what happens. Just remember, nobody saw the Cavs picking Tristan, Waiters or Bennett the last several years. Could be a curve ball.

[noob cake]

I would rather have Jabari Parker. Just seems like the best all around player between he, Wiggins and Emblid. We are weak at the 3 and the 5. But, we still have Andy and Zeller at center at least. Gonna be insteresting to see what happens. Just remember, nobody saw the Cavs picking Tristan, Waiters or Bennett the last several years. Could be a curve ball.

Zeller and Andy V is no reason to pass on Embiid. Wiggins is trash anyways.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I would rather have Jabari Parker. Just seems like the best all around player between he, Wiggins and Emblid. We are weak at the 3 and the 5. But, we still have Andy and Zeller at center at least. Gonna be insteresting to see what happens. Just remember, nobody saw the Cavs picking Tristan, Waiters or Bennett the last several years. Could be a curve ball.

Do you want to wind up with another TT, Waiters, or Bennett though?

Don't overthink this one, pick Embiid and don't look back.

[DukeDelonte13]

Lets not go into the draft thing...

In hindsight everyone could do better.

obviously.

the point i was trying to make was that guys like TT and Waiters which were panned as busts or reaches turned out to solid picks, and everybody still loves to dump on the cavs for taking those guys. Anybody care about Thomas Robinson, MKG, Jan Vesley, Harrison Barnes, or Derrick Williams?

Nope. It's the cavs who are the terrible drafters.

Wizards pick Jan Vesely, got super lucky just like the cavs did and leapfrogged to number 3 to snatch beal, and then drafted a guy in Otto Porter who put up worse numbers than anthony Bennett did.

Bobcats took Bismack, Kemba, MKG, and Cody Zeller.

Drafting is a crapshoot, and realistically speaking the cavs got themselves a pretty good return on their picks save for one.

[RedBlackAttack]

Lets not go into the draft thing...

In hindsight everyone could do better. If the Cavs backcourt right now were Kyrie and Lillard with Drummond at the 5 with Parker or Wiggins going #1 this is a very different conversation....even with their backcourt giving back 80% of the points they score.

The point isnt that the Cavs cant possibly turn it around.

Its that their history doesnt inspire confidence and its not an exciting situation to send the next great bigman prospect into with a bad back, coaches in rotation, and a fanbase in need of a shot in the arm(They fell to 23rd in home attendance by percentage).

It really isnt even about the city. You didnt see anyone saying Cleveland wasnt the ideal situation for Lebron. Local guy....turning around a team that needed it. Exciting for a team that needed league relevance again.

It just made sense. The prospect of it was appealing to watch.

Embiid?

I just...really really really hope hes healthy.

If this kid flames out you are gonna hear about it for the next 30 years.

When the Pistons took Darko even with all the hype he had it was known that Melo would be better right away. but they didnt need an exciting young star to spark a new era. They were already good and headed towards great.

Thats why they really arent that bashed for it. Won a ring anyway.

This is almost like the Nuggets or Cavs taking Darko. You pass up on the potential superstar swingmen when they can step right in and be something...you better be damn sure of your bigman.

Darko was a mystery because...who had seen him?

Joel is a mystery because bad backs have ruined the careers of guys half his size. The giant athletic center with spinal issues?

I really really do hope all this becomes just draft talk people forget when hes a hall of famer.

But if it isnt its gonna set the Cavs back like hell.

The Cavs arent in a situation id say shoot for the moon in. They are in a situation id say....get the guy you can be pretty sure...is good.

Parker. Even Wiggins has question marks from many.

Parker is this drafts Melo/Pierce. Maybe not as good. But nobody could look back and ask what you were thinking.

At some point they have to play it a little bit safe dont they?

This pick doesnt work out its another fired coach, perhaps a fired GM, and 4 years from now we are still talking about the Cavs being a team of the future.

It may not sound like it....but I do not want that to happen.

More than anything...I just hope the tlk about his back is unfounded. If hes healthy...I have nothing at all to say about him going #1.

I get you're concerned about his back, but it's not uncommon for this particular back issue to crop up in guys who are still growing and there is reason to believe that's the case with Embiid. He was measured coming into KU at 7'0. He's now up to 7'1. I'll also remind you that Drummond suffered the same exact injury in his rookie year and he looked fine in year two.

Any player can get injured at any time. If his tests show no longterm problems, he's easily the pick.

There are also a couple of other factors at work that I think may have led to his just generally being run down in his last two years of basketball. His body probably hasn't quite adjusted to the movements of the game yet, since he didn't begin playing organized hoops until four years ago.

There are also preventative measures teams can take to ensure he's building muscle in the right places to relieve stress on his back. I doubt he received the kind of medical treatment in high school or one year at KU that he'll get with the specialists at the Cleveland Clinic.

You do your due diligence. You test his back. Put him through all the physicals, have him evaluated by some of the best doctors in the world at the Cleveland Clinic. If they find something, that changes everything, but I don't see how you pass on a prospect like this purely out of fear of the unknown.



Drafting Parker over Embiid wouldn't make much sense, not just from a player perspective, but also his fit with the group of young guys we already have in place.

If there's one thing that was clear with Parker at Duke, it's that he loves to operate with the ball in his hands. He ranked 25th in Division I-A in usage rate, which is very high for a non-point guard. Most of his points came unassisted and he loves working in the iso.

It's been difficult enough figuring out a way to maximize both Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters when they're on the floor together, being that they're two guys who love to have the ball in their hands and work the offense through them.

I don't like the idea of throwing a third guy into that equation. And, it's not like Parker is a great shooter from the perimeter. Anthony Bennett had a considerably better three-point percentage in his one year at UNLV.

Meanwhile, just forget about offense for the moment. Set aside all of his elite potential on the block, from 15-20 feet, putbacks, lobs, passing, transition. All of that stuff aside.

If nothing else, Embiid brings us this...

http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/assets/3860413/embiiddenies.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gMYrSJkJIc4/UtsJEdux83I/AAAAAAAABOA/8AJR8T_6aTw/s1600/block2.gif

http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/3813401/embiid.gif

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/social_assets/cbb/embiid%20stuffs%20smart.gif


The biggest missing piece for the Cavs over the last four years has been a complete lack of a guy inside who could block/alter shots and will deter players from driving to the basket. Embiid's insane 9'5+ standing reach alone will go a long way to solving that.

He's just a perfect fit and he also happens to be the consensus best player in the draft. And, I think the Cavs have just as much to lose if they pass on Embiid and he realizes his potential as they do if they draft him and he doesn't. They've already taken (unwarranted) heat for not drafting Valanciunas, Drummond or Noel.

To pass on another big man -- and the best prospect of the four? What happens when/if Embiid is having an Anthony Davis type of impact by year two and Parker is fighting for shots with Dion and Kyrie? The consensus best player in the draft was gift wrapped to us and we hid from it, strictly out of fear of failure. To me, that makes for a much more brutal narrative than the Cavs taking the best prospect and getting unlucky with an injury.

It almost feels like this was meant to be. Had we drafted any of the above guys, we'd almost be forced not to take Embiid. By continually leaving the center position unfilled, it created this perfect opportunity.

They'd be fools to let it pass by.

[poido123]

Picking Embiid over Wiggins would be a massive mistake. It would be Sam Bowie over Jordan all over again.


I'm convinced that Embiid will be better.

I'm not saying all, but some of these super athletic guys coming out of college never quite reach the heights that they were hyped up to be. I think this has been a trend since the pressure of being the next MJ, along with getting all the fame and recognition before you have actually earnt it. They learn all the flashy dunks, but fail to work on their footwork/fundamentals and any post moves.

If you want to pick a successful athletic guy, you want to know he has good fundamentals/footwork. I question if Wiggins will be any better than a Kawhi Leornard(not saying he's bad), instead of the next MJ everyone is raving about. He's great at straight line attacks to the basket, but poor in changing direction. His change of direction isn't great, no drop steps, consistent spin moves using good footwork, none of that. He isn't a great finisher and he is not good driving left. His left hand is pretty weak also, this will get exploited in the NBA no doubt.

He has some talent and he will be a good player, but I think Embiid will reach that higher level superstar level.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont know if its unwarranted heat for not taking Drummond. He is coming off a 14/13 2 blocks 1 steal a game season on 62% shooting in only 32 minutes and hes 20 years old.

Hes out there putting up...

10/16/2 blocks
14/13
23/18
19/20
19/17
11/14
26/26
14/17
22/12

And those arent picked out season highs. Those are his last 9 games in a row.

Im not saying hes better or will be better than Joel. Im saying....not picking him is fair to call out for a number of teams.

And I dont know if Waiters is the type id even let enter my mind in a draft decision. Kyrie....fine. Waiters is just another good young player. Hes not someone you pass on anyone you like because of potential clashing with him.

He can be shown the door or learn his role.

I just like to see guys who may need shaping and luck both to go into stable situations without people waiting in the wings to make the "____ ****ed it up again!" story.

He has one 16 minute game getting "rested" while Parker drops 28 in a close loss to a good team someone is posting a picture of Sam Bowie. I hope he isnt the type to be shaken by early career hate if he isnt instantly running the league the way Kwame was.

Somewhat raw, back issue having, foreign bigmen with likely right out the gate good players picked behind him going to a team that has fired a coach 3 times in 4 years(twice the same guy), with no coach at the moment, in a situation the entire NBA world is ready to hate on?

Lot of potential for things to go wrong.

If the testing says the back is a non issue....great.

But even if it does...and he gets hurt...the Blazers gave Sam Bowie a 7 hour physical before drafting him. Expect to read that every 12 days till you are 55 if this goes sideways. And that would happen with any team? The Cavs? The hate ready to be poured out on this kid if hes not good out the gate and Parker/Wiggins are would shake many a young athlete.

Which again....I hope it doesnt. He actually seems like a nice guy in what little ive seen of him.

[Kblaze8855]

If you want to pick a successful athletic guy, you want to know he has good fundamentals/footwork. I question if Wiggins will be any better than a Kawhi Leornard(not saying he's bad), instead of the next MJ everyone is raving about. He's great at straight line attacks to the basket, but poor in changing direction. His change of direction isn't great, no drop steps, consistent spin moves using good footwork, none of that. He isn't a great finisher and he is not good driving left. His left hand is pretty weak also, this will get exploited in the NBA no doubt.


I dont know. You should go read some of the predraft posts on Rose. People were laughing at some for saying he would be able to beat NBA players off the dribble with his loose handles.

You really can never tell what a supreme all time athlete can do till he tries it.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I'm relatively positive that Embiid is considered a far better prospect than Bowie.

[chocolatethunder]

I'm relatively positive that Embiid is considered a far better prospect than Bowie.
I'm relatively sure that you weren't alive when Bowie was in college but I was and he was considered a great prospect. His sophomore year he was an absolute beast.

[Kblaze8855]

I dont know. I have a book called Tipoff on the 84 draft. People were kinda gushing over Bowie back then.

You can watch that draft...and it isnt exactly seen as shocking they took him over Jordan and Barkley.

Id take Embiid over Bowie but thats in hindsight. He was decent on the Nets.

And unrelated but...

Im not sure Kwame Brown wouldnt go #1 or #2 in this draft.

You should read some of the reports when he came out. Respected scouts were talking about him as a more athletic Kevin Garnett in a bigger body....

[LBJMVP]

obviously.

the point i was trying to make was that guys like TT and Waiters which were panned as busts or reaches turned out to solid picks, and everybody still loves to dump on the cavs for taking those guys. Anybody care about Thomas Robinson, MKG, Jan Vesley, Harrison Barnes, or Derrick Williams?

Nope. It's the cavs who are the terrible drafters.

Wizards pick Jan Vesely, got super lucky just like the cavs did and leapfrogged to number 3 to snatch beal, and then drafted a guy in Otto Porter who put up worse numbers than anthony Bennett did.

Bobcats took Bismack, Kemba, MKG, and Cody Zeller.

Drafting is a crapshoot, and realistically speaking the cavs got themselves a pretty good return on their picks save for one.
Still really confuses me when I read how everyone says "let's see the Cavs screw up another pick" when we have only missed one pick last year. Plus Bennett only played one season and the was a horrific draft class. Waiters is can straight ball. Can be a great starter or a 6th man of the year candidate. And Thompson practically averages a double double, not even gonna mention Irving.

[steve]

I dont know. I have a book called Tipoff on the 84 draft. People were kinda gushing over Bowie back then.

You can watch that draft...and it isnt exactly seen as shocking they took him over Jordan and Barkley.

Id take Embiid over Bowie but thats in hindsight. He was decent on the Nets.

And unrelated but...

Im not sure Kwame Brown wouldnt go #1 or #2 in this draft.

You should read some of the reports when he came out. Respected scouts were talking about him as a more athletic Kevin Garnett in a bigger body....

First of all, I think a year of college would've highlighted a few things that Kwame didn't do particularly well, like being able to catch the ball. Although he might have risen do to defensive potential and general quickness (which diminished once he started putting on more muscle, more so than you would think even).

Ugh, I remember thinking Tip Off was pretty poorly written at the time I read but it does bring some good points, if not terribly well organized. The biggest point I think that needs to be made is that when people say we as basketball fans have no idea what Jordan wasn't going to become, it's not a zero sum game. No one is ever suggesting that Jordan was going to be bust by any means or even an average player. Everyone was pretty convinced he was going to be an excellent player.

But there were some obvious red flags (that were even evident in his first few years albeit less so). Jordan was seen as an excellent scorer but there was zero evidence that he was going to turn into the all around offensive force of nature he became. For one, he was a black hole on offense, and really only passed when his offensive options were exhausted. This was on some really talented UNC teams that had Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty, and Kenny Smith (I'm reluctant to include James Worthy as it was only Jordan's freshman year). Even on a stacked team USA roster in the Olympics, despite having the ball in his hands more than anyone finished sixth on that team in assists.

He was a massively talented scorer but clearly didn't put a premium on ball movement (and this was also a struggle during the early part of his career). This was not going to sit well with a Blazers team speared by Jack Ramsay, who put a lot of value on ball movement. Add this to the Blazers already having plenty of scoring from the wing in Drexler, Kiki, and Jim Paxson, they were set there.

And people were gushing about Bowie's game because it was an atypical game that a team that had won with Walton 7 years prior would definitely value highly. There were red flags with Bowie because of his injury history and the fact he would be old for a rookie (although that was less of an issue in '84 but still something people considered). But teams loved his game, he was an excellent defensive player and an excellent passer, especially from the high post, and anyone who knows anything about Ramsay's system, there's nothing more valuable the combination of skills Bowie presented. This wasn't the Clippers taking Olowokandi out of the blue because he had size and the vague semblance of skill, basketball people generally loved Bowie's highly skilled game.

If the Cavs think Embiid's back is suitably healthy, he is obviously the choice. This isn't a team just taking size over a talented wing player, this is would be a team taking highly talented and skilled size over a comparably talented wing player. Despite suggestions to the contrary, size still matters greatly in the NBA, just like it always has. The only reason it's a "perimeter game" now is because the league includes James and Durant as the two top players (of course this assumption ignore how excellent the Heat are when Lebron's working out of the post and being their defacto rim protector or just how much better the Heat are just by having Bosh on the floor or ignoring Ibaka's obvious importance to what the Thunder do).

[RedBlackAttack]

I dont know if its unwarranted heat for not taking Drummond. He is coming off a 14/13 2 blocks 1 steal a game season on 62% shooting in only 32 minutes and hes 20 years old.

Hes out there putting up...

10/16/2 blocks
14/13
23/18
19/20
19/17
11/14
26/26
14/17
22/12

And those arent picked out season highs. Those are his last 9 games in a row.

Im not saying hes better or will be better than Joel. Im saying....not picking him is fair to call out for a number of teams.

And I dont know if Waiters is the type id even let enter my mind in a draft decision. Kyrie....fine. Waiters is just another good young player. Hes not someone you pass on anyone you like because of potential clashing with him.



I think you're misunderstanding my argument. It has nothing to do with Drummond's play so far in the NBA. He's been really good in his first two years.

The reason it is ridiculous to criticize the Cavs for not taking him now, is that I was actively involved in discussions on here and very tuned into the national narrative at the time of the 2012 draft.

Almost no one on ISH was talking about taking Drummond at 4 overall. I was actually one of the very few promoting the idea and not understanding why he was in such a free-fall. But, the consensus seemed to be that, not Drummond, but Thomas Robinson was the best player available at 4th overall.

If not him, Harrison Barnes was the other name being thrown around on here and nationally.

It's just revisionist history at its worst to look back, see who has panned out, and then grill a team for not taking the guy in retrospect. If there were a lot of people calling for it at the time? Fine. Grill away.

But, there weren't... and probably a much larger portion of people thought he was going to bust than thought he was going to be as good as he is right now. You can go through virtually every team in every draft and find guys who turned out better than the one they took.

Unfortunately, GMs don't have that information handy when the draft is actually taking place. And, the fact of the matter is, of the guys generally thought of at the time as the best available options at 4 (with Beal off the board, who a lot of people liked there), Waiters has turned out to be a pretty damn good pick (as compared to TRob, Barnes).

There's no denying that he has been one of the best players in that class so far. And, really, that's what you're trying to get with your Top 10 pick. Not every guy is going to be a homerun, best available on the board in retrospect. You just don't want to swing and miss (coincidentally, like the Kings did with Thomas Robinson).

I'd say Drummond would have been a homerun in retrospect... Waiters has been a double.

Yet, the Cavs get constantly punished while the teams that drafted the Jan Veselys and Thomas Robinsons of the world get almost no criticism.

Why?




I just like to see guys who may need shaping and luck both to go into stable situations without people waiting in the wings to make the "____ ****ed it up again!" story.

He has one 16 minute game getting "rested" while Parker drops 28 in a close loss to a good team someone is posting a picture of Sam Bowie. I hope he isnt the type to be shaken by early career hate if he isnt instantly running the league the way Kwame was.

Somewhat raw, back issue having, foreign bigmen with likely right out the gate good players picked behind him going to a team that has fired a coach 3 times in 4 years(twice the same guy), with no coach at the moment, in a situation the entire NBA world is ready to hate on?

Lot of potential for things to go wrong.

If the testing says the back is a non issue....great.

But even if it does...and he gets hurt...the Blazers gave Sam Bowie a 7 hour physical before drafting him. Expect to read that every 12 days till you are 55 if this goes sideways. And that would happen with any team? The Cavs? The hate ready to be poured out on this kid if hes not good out the gate and Parker/Wiggins are would shake many a young athlete.

Which again....I hope it doesnt. He actually seems like a nice guy in what little ive seen of him.

Like I said, I don't like the idea of drafting out of fear. If you see nothing to fear in any of Embiid's physicals, MRIs and all of that, you take the best guy on the board.

Also, again, I really don't like Parker on this roster. He's a high usage scoring wing with serious questions defensively and you're going to stick him alongside Kyrie Irving, Dion Waiters and Jarrett Jack?

I have concerns about Wiggins' rawness, but I think he fits a hell of a lot better than Parker does. At least he's looking like an elite defensive prospect who has shown he doesn't need the ball in his hands constantly to be effective.

Parker may be the most NBA-ready player in this draft, but I don't see this as the situation for him. He needs to go somewhere that will afford him the room/space to operate and be the clear No. 1 scoring option. Philly would be a great landing spot for Parker's skillset.

Like I said, if you could go into a lab and construct the kind of player the Cavs need more than anyone else, it would look like Embiid... Massive defensive presence/rim protector who is not going to need the ball in his hands constantly to be effective offensively and has the potential to be the longterm answer at the 5.

You can't draft scared. Embiid is the consensus best prospect and he's a perfect fit. Just because people love hammering the Cavs even when it's not warranted doesn't mean that you pass on a player like Embiid potentially coming to a perfect situation like this one.

I don't think people are expecting him to step onto the floor and put up 20/10 every night. While he gets his feet wet, providing rim protection, snagging rebounds, maybe getting putbacks/lobs here and there without bogging down the offense.... that should be enough for people who understand basketball.

For the rest of the people out there? They'll continue to bash the Cavs anyway until/if we're winning championships, so who cares what they think?

[RedBlackAttack]

First of all, I think a year of college would've highlighted a few things that Kwame didn't do particularly well, like being able to catch the ball. Although he might have risen do to defensive potential and general quickness (which diminished once he started putting on more muscle, more so than you would think even).

Ugh, I remember thinking Tip Off was pretty poorly written at the time I read but it does bring some good points, if not terribly well organized. The biggest point I think that needs to be made is that when people say we as basketball fans have no idea what Jordan wasn't going to become, it's not a zero sum game. No one is ever suggesting that Jordan was going to be bust by any means or even an average player. Everyone was pretty convinced he was going to be an excellent player.

But there were some obvious red flags (that were even evident in his first few years albeit less so). Jordan was seen as an excellent scorer but there was zero evidence that he was going to turn into the all around offensive force of nature he became. For one, he was a black hole on offense, and really only passed when his offensive options were exhausted. This was on some really talented UNC teams that had Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty, and Kenny Smith (I'm reluctant to include James Worthy as it was only Jordan's freshman year). Even on a stacked team USA roster in the Olympics, despite having the ball in his hands more than anyone finished sixth on that team in assists.

He was a massively talented scorer but clearly didn't put a premium on ball movement (and this was also a struggle during the early part of his career). This was not going to sit well with a Blazers team speared by Jack Ramsay, who put a lot of value on ball movement. Add this to the Blazers already having plenty of scoring from the wing in Drexler, Kiki, and Jim Paxson, they were set there.

And people were gushing about Bowie's game because it was an atypical game that a team that had won with Walton 7 years prior would definitely value highly. There were red flags with Bowie because of his injury history and the fact he would be old for a rookie (although that was less of an issue in '84 but still something people considered). But teams loved his game, he was an excellent defensive player and an excellent passer, especially from the high post, and anyone who knows anything about Ramsay's system, there's nothing more valuable the combination of skills Bowie presented. This wasn't the Clippers taking Olowokandi out of the blue because he had size and the vague semblance of skill, basketball people generally loved Bowie's highly skilled game.

If the Cavs think Embiid's back is suitably healthy, he is obviously the choice. This isn't a team just taking size over a talented wing player, this is would be a team taking highly talented and skilled size over a comparably talented wing player. Despite suggestions to the contrary, size still matters greatly in the NBA, just like it always has. The only reason it's a "perimeter game" now is because the league includes James and Durant as the two top players (of course this assumption ignore how excellent the Heat are when Lebron's working out of the post and being their defacto rim protector or just how much better the Heat are just by having Bosh on the floor or ignoring Ibaka's obvious importance to what the Thunder do).
Damn... where you been? Haven't seen you post in ages. Excellent analysis all the way around. The Cavs have even more to lose by passing on Embiid, imo. You can't draft worrying about what the media narrative might become if things don't work out. Trust what you see.

The pick is a relative no-brainer assuming the physicals go well.

[Rocketswin2013]

If nothing else, Embiid brings us this...

http://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/assets/3860413/embiiddenies.gif

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gMYrSJkJIc4/UtsJEdux83I/AAAAAAAABOA/8AJR8T_6aTw/s1600/block2.gif

http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/3813401/embiid.gif

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/social_assets/cbb/embiid%20stuffs%20smart.gif

He jumps at the same exact time as the ballhandler in almost all of these. :biggums: Can't teach this stuff.

[chocolatethunder]

Damn... where you been? Haven't seen you post in ages. Excellent analysis all the way around. The Cavs have even more to lose by passing on Embiid, imo. You can't draft worrying about what the media narrative might become if things don't work out. Trust what you see.

The pick is a relative no-brainer assuming the physicals go well.
If he's healthy, I don't see any other choice. He makes that team instantly better and neither of the other picks do. They don't need a wing , even a scoring wing like parker. With Embiid, he opens up everything for Waiters and Irving and honestly, I think Bennett can be decent. This team could easily make the playoffs in the east. This is of course, if his back checks out. For me, If he's healthy, the draft should go Embiid, Parker then Wiggins and they all fit each team perfectly.

[steve]

Damn... where you been? Haven't seen you post in ages. Excellent analysis all the way around. The Cavs have even more to lose by passing on Embiid, imo. You can't draft worrying about what the media narrative might become if things don't work out. Trust what you see.

The pick is a relative no-brainer assuming the physicals go well.

Haha, here and there.

I agree with you on Parker. And to add a caveat to that, he would be the third undersized 4 they had drafted in the last four years. He fits best on Philly with a big who can cover him.

Wiggins fills a need but Embiid gives them such a major leg up going forward that it seems dumb not draft him. You can focus on injuries but consider the backlash that'll happen if he stays healthy. The biggest issue I have with Embiid is him dealing with contact, and that can get sorted with time.

[RedBlackAttack]

Ok, so we went over the shot-blocking above. Let's completely switch gears.


The low block

Low post catch, gather, get to his spot in the middle of the lane. Righty hook.

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/gifs/embiid_hook_1.gif


Same spot. Face-up, fake, jumper.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view7/20131219/4928876/embiid-jumper-o.gif


Yes... same spot. This time, initial movement looks as though he's setting up that running righty hook to the middle of the lane, but instead spins back to the right, shows his power game and puts down a lefty hook.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/20131219/4928858/embiid-hook-o.gif


This time, the opponent sends a quick double team at Joel at that spot. He patiently waits for it, and throws a fastball to a wide open teammate in the opposite corner.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/20140116/4954498/embiid-pass-o.gif


Can you front Joel on the low block?

http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/gifs/embiid_through_contact_2.gif



You like Dream shakes? Yeah, we got dream shakes.

http://rockchalkblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/embiid-gif.gif

[All Net]

That crazy length right there..

[raprap]

I would :lol if somehow the cavs dont pick embiid

[RedBlackAttack]

I would :lol if somehow the cavs dont pick embiid
I've already alerted the board that I'll have a severe meltdown on par with the worst ever seen on ISH.

[eliteballer]

If his back checks out he has to go #1, he's only played bball for 4 years!

[RedBlackAttack]

If his back checks out he has to go #1, he's only played bball for 4 years!
That's what so crazy about his footwork. The gifs I posted above... a lot of that stuff they've been trying to teach Dwight Howard for a decade. F#cking guy picked up a basketball four years ago and he's doing hooks with both hands and dream shakes. :oldlol:

Scary potential.

You can write off the blocks and lobs as his just being enormous and athletic. The footwork, though... WTF?

[All Net]

That's what so crazy about his footwork. The gifs I posted above... a lot of that stuff they've been trying to teach Dwight Howard for a decade. F#cking guy picked up a basketball four years ago and he's doing hooks with both hands and dream shakes. :oldlol:

Scary potential.

You can write off the blocks and lobs as his just being enormous and athletic. The footwork, though... WTF?
Wonder how much he will grow? Another inch or so is possible

[Kblaze8855]

Perhaps I missed a lot of the Drummond isnt that good talk. its entirely possible. But he was supposed to be one of if not the top guy going into that season. Hes the only guy off the top of my head I sought out to watch because of his "Next great..." hype. HE was always in foul trouble and didnt have the season people expected but I always thought he was something of a big deal.

And on the Parker vs Joel thing....

It isnt that I think Parker is a better pick all things even. Its that....all things arent even.

And I dont even love Parkers game that much. Im not just....100% sure hes a star. Id actually pick Wiggins first because I believe hes more likely to be an elite player even if he isnt more likely to be a good player....if that makes sense. I suspect you can figure out what I mean.

But the Cavs are in a situation id almost say....safety first. At least with 3 guys who could easily go #1 in most drafts. I wouldnt look past a bigman like Embiid in last years draft. Whats worth even thinking about?

This year.....eh. I could see 4 stars within 3-4 years coming out of this draft and 4-5 more really good players.

Id really like to know the kind of coach they hire. I kinda wish they got SVG. Mark Jackson wouldnt be bad. Seems he had the Warriors on one page. And Kyrie could use someone who knows a thing or two about feeding the young star bigman. I can see Cavs fans getting pissed as he ignores Joel on the block in position to do an inside out crossover into a pullup 3 that misses.

And its gonna be like game 6 when Joel has 11 in the first quarter and is shutting up the critics who made a big deal out of him not having a double digit scoring game yet as if 5 games matters.

Kyrie is a good player. I dont know if hes the leader I want to bring along my bigman. Though there really arent many id say are right now.

The era of the good entry pass point who knows his role and takes little off the table is damn near over. Everyone wants to shoot the 3 off the dribble and let the bigman go rebound.

[Meticode]

Wonder how much he will grow? Another inch or so is possible
I'd be surpised. He already gained 1" on his height and 0.75 on his wingspan since last year's Hoop Summit. I think another inch max...

[waseem780]

If the Cavs don't pick Embiid I'll be so fcuking happy , If the Cavs don't pick Wiggins or Embiid I'll be so happy I'd give out free money.

[RedBlackAttack]

Perhaps I missed a lot of the Drummond isnt that good talk. its entirely possible. But he was supposed to be one of if not the top guy going into that season. Hes the only guy off the top of my head I sought out to watch because of his "Next great..." hype. HE was always in foul trouble and didnt have the season people expected but I always thought he was something of a big deal.

And on the Parker vs Joel thing....

It isnt that I think Parker is a better pick all things even. Its that....all things arent even.

And I dont even love Parkers game that much. Im not just....100% sure hes a star. Id actually pick Wiggins first because I believe hes more likely to be an elite player even if he isnt more likely to be a good player....if that makes sense. I suspect you can figure out what I mean.

But the Cavs are in a situation id almost say....safety first. At least with 3 guys who could easily go #1 in most drafts. I wouldnt look past a bigman like Embiid in last years draft. Whats worth even thinking about?

This year.....eh. I could see 4 stars within 3-4 years coming out of this draft and 4-5 more really good players.

Id really like to know the kind of coach they hire. I kinda wish they got SVG. Mark Jackson wouldnt be bad. Seems he had the Warriors on one page. And Kyrie could use someone who knows a thing or two about feeding the young star bigman. I can see Cavs fans getting pissed as he ignores Joel on the block in position to do an inside out crossover into a pullup 3 that misses.

And its gonna be like game 6 when Joel has 11 in the first quarter and is shutting up the critics who made a big deal out of him not having a double digit scoring game yet as if 5 games matters.

Kyrie is a good player. I dont know if hes the leader I want to bring along my bigman. Though there really arent many id say are right now.

The era of the good entry pass point who knows his role and takes little off the table is damn near over. Everyone wants to shoot the 3 off the dribble and let the bigman go rebound.

I can see where you're coming from. I guess I'm just not a "safety first" guy. I wanted Noel badly last year at No. 1. Wanted Drummond in 2012, despite some red flags in his freshman season at UConn.

As for the coach, all signs seem to be pointing toward Lionel Hollins. I've heard he is the pick right now and it would take a big-time winner in the interview process to overtake him. The second pick would seem to be Adrian Griffin, just by reading the tea leaves.

I'd be OK with either guy and Hollins would seem to be a really good fit if we're taking Embiid. He has a proven track record of getting major production out of his bigs. Zach Randolph was always a tremendously talented player, but it wasn't until he went to Memphis and Hollins that he began turning his statistical production into really impactful play.

Marc Gasol also developed really nicely under Hollins.


The fact that they're making a run at Hollins gives me a lot of hope that they're taking Embiid. The track record is there.

Now, how will he mesh with Kyrie, Dion, and the rest of our young core? That remains to be seen, but I think a big like Embiid could be a real help to those guys. First of all, he has shown already that he can step out to 10-15 feet and knock down jumpers.

Secondly, when those guys drive to the basket, they take a lot of defenders with them. A really athletic, huge, skilled big man roaming around the basket could be lethal if they buy into that kind of system.

I'd like to think that winning is the most important thing to these guys and they'll see the tremendous advantage they'd have over almost every other team in the league. The number of true centers with real offensive skill can be counted on one hand.

Everyone would benefit from allowing him to do his thing, even if it means a few less shots per game for our talented backcourt duo.

And, to be perfectly honest with you, if they don't buy in and are unwilling to learn how to play with a big guy working the low post?

I'd show them the door. I'm hoping they're smarter than that. With the amount of talent on this roster, they have the chance to build something special if everyone buys in.

Maybe Hollins is the man to show them the light?

[RedBlackAttack]

Joel Embiid just arrived in Cleveland per ESPN. He will workout and undergo a physical, MRI, etc. in the coming days.

:applause:

[Johnny Jones]

I remember RBA saying he was almost positive the Cavs were going to take Noel last year. Would be funny if the Cavs take somebody unexpected like Exum again

[RedBlackAttack]

I remember RBA saying he was almost positive the Cavs were going to take Noel last year. Would be funny if the Cavs take somebody unexpected like Exum again
I wanted Noel badly... And, I thought since Grant was big on analytics, he was going to be the pick. Noel's advanced statistics were very good.

Obviously, I was off the mark.

I'm no longer predicting what the Cavs will do, especially since this is a totally different front office now. But, to me, it should be pretty cut and dry. :confusedshrug:

All I can do is hope they get it right.

[Johnny Jones]

I wanted Noel badly... And, I thought since Grant was big on analytics, he was going to be the pick. Noel's advanced statistics were very good.

Obviously, I was off the mark.

I'm no longer predicting what the Cavs will do, especially since this is a totally different front office now. But, to me, it should be pretty cut and dry. :confusedshrug:

All I can do is hope they get it right.
No beef against you or anything, I just remember you being very confident with Noel being the pick and you analyzing Noel's every game and studying his tape like you are with Embiid now.

And actually out of the top 8 picks Noel had the 2nd worst advanced stats behind Alex Len. Could be one of the reasons Grant passed on him idk :confusedshrug:

[DukeDelonte13]

No beef against you or anything, I just remember you being very confident with Noel being the pick and you analyzing Noel's every game and studying his tape like you are with Embiid now.

And actually out of the top 8 picks Noel had the 2nd worst advanced stats behind Alex Len. Could be one of the reasons Grant passed on him idk :confusedshrug:

No Noel's advanced metrics were very good.

Bennett's were not so good.

[RedBlackAttack]

No beef against you or anything, I just remember you being very confident with Noel being the pick and you analyzing Noel's every game and studying his tape like you are with Embiid now.

And actually out of the top 8 picks Noel had the 2nd worst advanced stats behind Alex Len. Could be one of the reasons Grant passed on him idk :confusedshrug:
Depends what advanced metrics you were looking at, but all of the ones I use had Noel as the pick. Pelton's WARP ratings put Noel way in front, almost exactly even with Anthony Davis' rating. He also had the highest usage-based PER in the country.

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2013/05/the-diff-the-stats-behind-drafting-nerlens-noel-at-no-1/

I guess you can find statistics to back up nearly any stance in this day and age.

[DukeDelonte13]

I wanted Noel badly... And, I thought since Grant was big on analytics, he was going to be the pick. Noel's advanced statistics were very good.

Obviously, I was off the mark.

I'm no longer predicting what the Cavs will do, especially since this is a totally different front office now. But, to me, it should be pretty cut and dry. :confusedshrug:

All I can do is hope they get it right.

This is the exact same FO minus Chris Grant. Scouting department is completely the same. We just have a guy with a different philosophy making that final decision.

[RedBlackAttack]

This is the exact same FO minus Chris Grant. Scouting department is completely the same. We just have a guy with a different philosophy making that final decision.
True. But, it certainly feels different without Grant at the helm. Compare this coaching search to last year's... One interview and an immediate hire. They have at least a dozen candidates this year with seemingly more added each day. I heard in the last 12 hours that Mark Jackson has quietly taken a seat at the table, btw.

The Griffin-led FO has a different vibe to it.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Do you think if you had picked Noel Embiid would still be the pick?

That frontcourt would be so nuts if it worked, and I think it could, I haven't seen Noel play in a while obviously but he seems like more of a help defender who can go out to the perimeter and guard pick and rolls, (a la Davis) than a true anchor.

[RedBlackAttack]

Do you think if you had picked Noel Embiid would still be the pick?

That frontcourt would be so nuts if it worked, and I think it could, I haven't seen Noel play in a while obviously but he seems like more of a help defender who can go out to the perimeter and guard pick and rolls, (a la Davis) than a true anchor.
I think it could work, because Embiid is so versatile, but it isn't an ideal match. You're pretty much looking at the Ralph Sampson / Akeem Olajuwon model if you did that. Get your twin towers and hope everything works itself out. In that case, it did.

Noel probably isn't going to be strong enough to start his career as a center. I'm thinking they'll work him in as a 4.

Embiid/Noel would have the potential to be lethal defensively, but on the otherside of the court, I'd much rather put Embiid next to a PF who can stretch the floor. That will allow him the space to do some operating in the low block, and also doesn't crowd the paint for our slashing guards Kyrie/Dion/Jack.

In that sense, a guy like Bennett -- if he gets his game together -- would be an ideal fit for Embiid. That's why I think Tristan may become expendable... not that I want to get rid of him, but his contract is about to become an issue on top of everything else.

If we take Embiid, AB makes a lot more sense as the longterm answer at the 4.

[hawksdogsbraves]

I think it could work, because Embiid is so versatile, but it isn't an ideal match. You're pretty much looking at the Ralph Sampson / Akeem Olajuwon model if you did that. Get your twin towers and hope everything works itself out. In that case, it did.

Noel probably isn't going to be strong enough to start his career as a center. I'm thinking they'll work him in as a 4.

Embiid/Noel would have the potential to be lethal defensively, but on the otherside of the court, I'd much rather put Embiid next to a PF who can stretch the floor. That will allow him the space to do some operating in the low block, and also doesn't crowd the paint for our slashing guards Kyrie/Dion/Jack.

In that sense, a guy like Bennett -- if he gets his game together -- would be an ideal fit for Embiid. That's why I think Tristan may become expendable... not that I want to get rid of him, but his contract is about to become an issue on top of everything else.

If we take Embiid, AB makes a lot more sense as the longterm answer at the 4.

As a big time Bennett hater, I'll refrain from commenting on how I think that will work out. Sort of.

[RedBlackAttack]

As a big time Bennett hater, I'll refrain from commenting on how I think that will work out. Sort of.
We have a difference of opinion when it comes to AB's talent, but the point is really more of a stylistic thing. I want to be able to give Embiid as much room as possible to do his thing. You look at a guy like Paul Millsap, for example... that's the kind of guy I'd like around my franchise center.

Embiid/Noel would definitely make things interesting, but it could get a little messy offensively.

[RedBlackAttack]

@JoelEmbiid
3 hours ago

Having fun in Cleveland #WeAllFromAfrica #NBA #Success

http://instagram.com/p/pFnWZRlrit/#

:applause:

[Milbuck]

@JoelEmbiid
3 hours ago


http://instagram.com/p/pFnWZRlrit/#

:applause:
Stop the torture..

[CavaliersFTW]

@JoelEmbiid
3 hours ago


http://instagram.com/p/pFnWZRlrit/#

:applause:
:rockon:

[RedBlackAttack]

Stop the torture..
:oldlol:

The Bucks are going to come out of this draft a lot better. Take comfort in that.

[All Net]

@JoelEmbiid
3 hours ago


http://instagram.com/p/pFnWZRlrit/#

:applause:
Sounds a done deal.

[RedBlackAttack]

Sounds a done deal.
I don't think so... at least not yet. He just arrived in town tonight. I would assume his workout will be tomorrow and the medical examinations will happen in the coming days.

I'd like to say it's a done deal, but we're not quite there yet. It may come down to that medical.

[All Net]

I don't think so... at least not yet. He just arrived in town tonight. I would assume his workout will be tomorrow and the medical examinations will happen in the coming days.

I'd like to say it's a done deal, but we're not quite there yet. It may come down to that medical.
Looking forward to hearing how his workout goes.

[DukeDelonte13]

Looking forward to hearing how his workout goes.


no matter what happens or how the medical goes i bet that embiid won't be shut down.

[Meticode]

True. But, it certainly feels different without Grant at the helm. Compare this coaching search to last year's... One interview and an immediate hire. They have at least a dozen candidates this year with seemingly more added each day. I heard in the last 12 hours that Mark Jackson has quietly taken a seat at the table, btw.

The Griffin-led FO has a different vibe to it.
I don't think is a product of a new GM, I think this is a product of "Oh, we interviewed 1 coach, gave him a 5 year deal right away and we got f*cked". Let's actually interview multiple people for the position.

[DukeDelonte13]

I don't think is a product of a new GM, I think this is a product of "Oh, we interviewed 1 coach, gave him a 5 year deal right away and we got f*cked". Let's actually interview multiple people for the position.

we got f*cked in the sense we f*cked ourselves. Suns offered MB a head coaching position at that point. Getting rid of a guy after one year is stupid, especially when you are seeing progress. Gilbert's impatience is forever going to hold the team back. Same sh*t w/ the kings, pistons, etc., lack of patience creates perennial losers.

MB is a lot better than some of the retreads that we interviewed.

[Grinder]

If he's healthy, Embiid is a no brainer for me. I think Wiggins and Parker will be stars but Embiid's potential is through the roof and even if he doesn't live up to it, he's still got a good chance of being a perennial all star. That combination of size, touch, agility, footwork, and defense ability comes along far too rarely to pass up on.

I also happen to think he'd pair very well with Irving. He's a smart cutter and has good hands so he'd be able to play off Irving's penetration and his post ups should demand double teams in the near future.

[midatlantic09]

Why do people think Wiggins will be selected 2nd by Milwaukee? One would logically think that they'd go with the guy who is more NBA-ready and from a neighboring city just an hour away (Chicago).

[kureyşi-gospurs]

The thought of he and Kyrie growing together for the next decade is just delicious. Embiid is the perfect compliment to Irving, imo. He's not the kind of guy who is going to need the ball in his hands constantly to have a huge impact, he's athletic enough to run the P&R and can already hit his jumper consistently out to 15-20 feet... so there's your pick-and-pop.

Then, there's the attention that Kyrie draws when he drives to the basket. Going to be very difficult for teams to play him that way with Embiid lurking around the rim.

Defensively, an intimidating presence around the rim will go a long way to solving the Cavs' issues over the last few seasons.

It's just a perfect match. He's exactly what we need. If I could have gone into a lab and constructed the kind of player the Cavs needed with the roster currently in place, it would look like Embiid.

Amazing that we're in this position.

Next Hakeem.

[PleezeBelieve]

Why do people think Wiggins will be selected 2nd by Milwaukee? One would logically think that they'd go with the guy who is more NBA-ready and from a neighboring city just an hour away (Chicago).
This

[Uncle Drew]

No idea if this dude's reliable or not, but, one can only hope.

[QUOTE] Gery Woelfel @GeryWoelfel

[Milbuck]

Why do people think Wiggins will be selected 2nd by Milwaukee? One would logically think that they'd go with the guy who is more NBA-ready and from a neighboring city just an hour away (Chicago).
Don't get this either. It's not even a matter of logic or reasoning, there's been actual reports that we're really interested in Jabari. He looked terrific in his workouts. He's lost weight, looked far more athletic than during the college season, and overall he looks like an impact player from day 1. Wiggins is a great prospect, but he's Philly's prospect.

[All Net]

No idea if this dude's reliable or not, but, one can only hope.
No surprise you don't trade a player with his talent.

[RedBlackAttack]

The news sounds excellent so far. Various reports today say that the Cavs conducted a medical evaluation and he passed with flying colors. I'm on my phone so I don't have an immediate link, but @probballdraft (Kotoch?) has it all over his twitter.

Sounding really good.

[NattyPButter]

why did he play so little mins each game? 23 mins is low compared to all the other top prospects that played 30+ mins. Does he have horrible stamina? I never payed much attention to him when I did watch Kansas games.

[D-Rose]

The news sounds excellent so far. Various reports today say that the Cavs conducted a medical evaluation and he passed with flying colors. I'm on my phone so I don't have an immediate link, but @probballdraft (Kotoch?) has it all over his twitter.

Sounding really good.
Hope they got him checked out at the Cleveland Clinic :cheers:

[hawksdogsbraves]

why did he play so little mins each game? 23 mins is low compared to all the other top prospects that played 30+ mins. Does he have horrible stamina? I never payed much attention to him when I did watch Kansas games.

Self really doesn't like to play freshman, I know that. I think there were concerns about his back being sore during the season too, even though he didn't really miss much time til the end.

[unbreakable]

great move to draft embiid..

next step is to TRADE KYRIE while his value is still decent. lets face it : he doesnt play defense, he doesnt share the ball, and hes not consistent.

get a pass first , defensive minded PG who aint afraid to get his hands dirty.. kyrie is a DIVA... let him go.

[RedBlackAttack]

Thanks to shoes over on RCF for this breakdown of Joe Kotoch on 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland...

-Cavs only did the medical exam portion of the interview today.
-The team is comfortable with the back situation. There are no complications, eveything is healing properly.
-Doctors don't see any long term issues that should affect his career.
-Said the word "stress fracture" is a scary word, but they're actually more common than we realize. A lot of players encounter them without realizing until the condition gets worse. Being able to detect a stress fracture early and get it treated properly (like in Embiid's case) is huge.
-Right now Embiid is playing, training, and doing everything he's expected to do.
-Kotoch believes Embiid could contribute in the NBA right away. Specifically his shot blocking, rim protecting, and rebounding ability should translate immediately.
-According to Kotoch, just about every team in the league has Embiid ranked as the best prospect in the draft if his back checks out.
-At the beggining of the year, nobody had Embiid ranked as the #1 pick. He earned the distinction through his rapid improvement over the course of the year.

[unbreakable]

great news .. trade KYRIE and cavs are back in business.

[CavaliersFTW]

great news .. trade KYRIE and cavs are back in business.
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view4/3191211/riiight-o.gif

[RedBlackAttack]

great news .. trade KYRIE and cavs are back in business.
About to draft a fantastic 20-year-old center prospect. Best course of action... immediately trade your 22-year-old All-Star point guard.

Makes sense.

[DukeDelonte13]

summer league is going to be bananas this year.

[Meticode]

I wish the 14 days would just get here already.

[veilside23]

In my opinion teams wont mistake 1-3 luckily cleveland has the biggest advantage...

Irving
Waiters
Bennett
Thompson
Embiid

Wiggins for me is made for the sixers the future for them is as bright as cleveland maybe even brighter..

MCW
Richardson/Stauskas
Wiggins
Young
Noel

.

Embiid is the best prospect after LBJ .. There is durant and what might have been Oden. Oden is way more talented than Embiid in college maybe thats because embiid has been playing for just a number of years. That may also have a good effect on him may also have a longer pro career than other bigs.

Whats good about wiggins ? his ability to finish with both hands. he can also avoid contact and get the bucket still. 2nd jump is like shawn marion. elite defender he even guarded julius randle when he was still just like a stick and was able to do good. I have belief that he would only get better because he is humble and have a lot of doubters. He has a lot to prove . Many people realize that kawhi leonard wasnt this good and yet they tend to criticize a 19 year old wiggins.

[DukeDelonte13]

In my opinion teams wont mistake 1-3 luckily cleveland has the biggest advantage...

Irving
Waiters
Bennett
Thompson
Embiid

Wiggins for me is made for the sixers the future for them is as bright as cleveland maybe even brighter..

MCW
Richardson/Stauskas
Wiggins
Young
Noel

.

Embiid is the best prospect after LBJ .. There is durant and what might have been Oden. Oden is way more talented than Embiid in college maybe thats because embiid has been playing for just a number of years. That may also have a good effect on him may also have a longer pro career than other bigs.

Whats good about wiggins ? his ability to finish with both hands. he can also avoid contact and get the bucket still. 2nd jump is like shawn marion. elite defender he even guarded julius randle when he was still just like a stick and was able to do good. I have belief that he would only get better because he is humble and have a lot of doubters. He has a lot to prove . Many people realize that kawhi leonard wasnt this good and yet they tend to criticize a 19 year old wiggins.


i think Anthony Davis was the best prospect since James and I think he's still a better prospect than Embiid, Oden, Wiggins, and Parker.

Davis was guaranteed to be a franchise altering player and from the looks of things he clearly is. He's a future MVP.

Embiid can get there, but he's much more raw than Davis. However i will say Embiid's level of "rawness" compared to other recent top center draft picks is negligible.

[D-Rose]

Are any of you CLE people familiar with Tony Rizzo of ESPNCleveland?

[QUOTE]@ESPNCleveland

[Uncle Drew]

Is this guy credible?
Absolutely not.

[D-Rose]

[QUOTE]@SamAmicoFSO

[Uncle Drew]

But here's this from y'all's favorite
Damn, I'm worried now.

[Rocketswin2013]

:roll: so contradictory

[Milbuck]

:wtf:

How could it possibly be that mixed up?

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

the cavs are going to mess this one up too just like bennett

[RedBlackAttack]

Are any of you CLE people familiar with Tony Rizzo of ESPNCleveland?



What gives? Is this guy credible?
He's a talking head on the radio in Cleveland. I'm not sure there is a person on the planet less likely to get legitimate information.

[D-Rose]

He's a talking head on the radio in Cleveland. I'm not sure there is a person on the planet less likely to get legitimate information.
Hahaa nice. I read on twitter that he personally does not want them to pick Embiid.

[Johnny Jones]

He's a talking head on the radio in Cleveland. I'm not sure there is a person on the planet less likely to get legitimate information.
Sam Amico is worse. Both of those two probably don't have any sources and are likely bull shitting

[CavaliersFTW]

Tony Rizzo's source was overhearing someone talk about this while eating dinner at a restaurant

[RedBlackAttack]

Sam Amico is worse. Both of those two probably don't have any sources and are likely bull shitting
Amico used to be worse. When Grant was GM, he was basically just making stuff up. We even suspected he was taking information from RCF insiders and using it as his "breaking" news.

I will tell you this... things have changed. There has been a shake-up in which reporters get information from the Cavs. I won't say anything more, but notice Cavs fans in the know are no longer killing Amico.

[RedBlackAttack]

A bit more information is beginning to leak about the Cavs' workout with Embiid. It sounds like he blew them away.

In his latest mock draft, Chad Ford had this to say...


1. Cleveland - Joel Embiid, C, Kansas

Embiid's workout and interview in Cleveland last week were major successes, according to sources close to the Cavs. Embiid did a full workout there in front of the Cavs' front office and owner Dan Gilbert. Multiple sources said that the team was blown away with the workout. Embiid even ended one session by launching and nailing a series of 3s. Directly after the workout, two different sources told me that Embiid was the strong favorite to be drafted by the Cavs. Even Gilbert was on board.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/mock/?season=2014&version=8&source=Chad-Ford-Mock-Draft&ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Ford_NBAMock8.0

https://efchan.net/arch/src/8xyw7ke72e80.gif

[DukeDelonte13]

Amico used to be worse. When Grant was GM, he was basically just making stuff up. We even suspected he was taking information from RCF insiders and using it as his "breaking" news.

I will tell you this... things have changed. There has been a shake-up in which reporters get information from the Cavs. I won't say anything more, but notice Cavs fans in the know are no longer killing Amico.


Yeah it's really really weird. Llyod used to be the guy. Was he also the one that put out that really nasty article the day of that crucial Hawks game?

I don't think Amico is more tuned in than he was last year, but we will probably get a good idea in the next few days.

[DukeDelonte13]

A bit more information is beginning to leak about the Cavs' workout with Embiid. It sounds like he blew them away.

In his latest mock draft, Chad Ford had this to say...


1. Cleveland - Joel Embiid, C, Kansas

Embiid's workout and interview in Cleveland last week were major successes, according to sources close to the Cavs. Embiid did a full workout there in front of the Cavs' front office and owner Dan Gilbert. Multiple sources said that the team was blown away with the workout. Embiid even ended one session by launching and nailing a series of 3s. Directly after the workout, two different sources told me that Embiid was the strong favorite to be drafted by the Cavs. Even Gilbert was on board.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/mock/?season=2014&version=8&source=Chad-Ford-Mock-Draft&ex_cid=InsiderTwitter_Ford_NBAMock8.0

https://efchan.net/arch/src/8xyw7ke72e80.gif



:eek:


Man would I loved to be a fly on the wall during some of these workouts. I hope this story is true but you never know what's real and what's BS when it comes to these things.

Wiggins today, BTW.

[Kblaze8855]

Kinda have to come back to this now....


He's just a perfect fit and he also happens to be the consensus best player in the draft. And, I think the Cavs have just as much to lose if they pass on Embiid and he realizes his potential as they do if they draft him and he doesn't. They've already taken (unwarranted) heat for not drafting Valanciunas, Drummond or Noel.

To pass on another big man -- and the best prospect of the four? What happens when/if Embiid is having an Anthony Davis type of impact by year two and Parker is fighting for shots with Dion and Kyrie? The consensus best player in the draft was gift wrapped to us and we hid from it, strictly out of fear of failure. To me, that makes for a much more brutal narrative than the Cavs taking the best prospect and getting unlucky with an injury.


So its ok...perhaps even advised...to draft scared now?

On one hand...this is the same injury that finished Yao, almost finished Z, and had Walton miss most of 4 years. On the other hand...


According to Dr. Kenneth Hunt, an Assistant Professor of Orthopedics at Stanford, a stress fracture in a navicular bone is "a classic overuse injury" found often in basketball and volleyball players.

"The most common treatment is to make small incisions to place one or two screws across the fracture to stabilize it," Hunt said. "If the fracture is displaced, a bone graft can accelerate healing."

Hunt noted that despite the high profile examples of athletes who have battled recurrences of a navicular fracture, "the healing rates of this fracture are high."

"The majority of these injuries will heal completely," Hunt said. "Getting to it early is a good prognostic sign. In his case, it appears it was treated early and appropriately. In the cases I have seen, the athletes that have recurrent fractures have high arches and stiff feet. They can develop large spurs in the adjacent bones. But again, to the majority of athletes this will heal and not be an issue in the future."

As for recovery time, Hunt said that players generally resume basketball activities in 4-6 months and are ready to play in nine months, though in some cases it can be closer to a year.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nba/news/20140619/joel-embiid-stress-fracture-2014-nba-draft/#ixzz35BZq0ZUe


So....he can be fine. But now Cavs fans dont want to risk it?

Bad backs have probably ended as many careers as bad feet. The back seemed to check out. But now its his foot...

And there seems to be so much less confidence he will be ok. Even if the great majority of people are.

Just too much to take on top of the back?

[D-Rose]

Kinda have to come back to this now....




So its ok...perhaps even advised...to draft scared now?

On one hand...this is the same injury that finished Yao, almost finished Z, and had Walton miss most of 4 years. On the other hand...




So....he can be fine. But now Cavs fans dont want to risk it?

Bad backs have probably ended as many careers as bad feet. The back seemed to check out. But now its his foot...

And there seems to be so much less confidence he will be ok. Even if the great majority of people are.

Just too much to take on top of the back?
He's barely played any basketball and has already had this stress injury. I don't think Cleveland should pick him. No way. Wiggins has generational potential anyway, history is not kind to big man bust picks.

[kshutts1]

He's barely played any basketball and has already had this stress injury. I don't think Cleveland should pick him. No way. Wiggins has generational potential anyway, history is not kind to big man bust picks.
I went over this in the other thread... but the kid just started playing basketball a few years ago, and he's still growing/maturing physically. Of course he's going to have injuries. His body went from minimal (I would assume) professional-athlete-level work to a ton. In just a short time.

Man, I lift daily, and run often. But even with that, if I go extra hard one day, my body definitely hurts. And that's just a step up in weights or time on a jog. Imagine barely doing any professional training, then suddenly going all in? Jesus.

Don't let his injury deter you. If he was your pick before, he should be now.

[D-Rose]

I went over this in the other thread... but the kid just started playing basketball a few years ago, and he's still growing/maturing physically. Of course he's going to have injuries. His body went from minimal (I would assume) professional-athlete-level work to a ton. In just a short time.

Man, I lift daily, and run often. But even with that, if I go extra hard one day, my body definitely hurts. And that's just a step up in weights or time on a jog. Imagine barely doing any professional training, then suddenly going all in? Jesus.

Don't let his injury deter you. If he was your pick before, he should be now.
I understand all that, but in NBA history, big men with these injuries bring up true red flags. I don't think you draft him when Wiggins/Parker are available and are safe picks. I think he goes in the 3-6 range.

[BigTicket]

Just too much to take on top of the back?

Yes.

If there was a large gap between Embiid and everyone else, maybe you could justify taking the chance, but with Wiggins and Parker also available ? Just not worth the risk.

Cavs don't want to be on the wrong side of another Oden/Durant or Bowie/Jordan situation.

[BoutPractice]

Yes.

If there was a large gap between Embiid and everyone else

Honestly? I think there is. But I completely understand why you wouldn't want to take the risk.

[hawksdogsbraves]

He's barely played any basketball and has already had this stress injury. I don't think Cleveland should pick him. No way. Wiggins has generational potential anyway, history is not kind to big man bust picks.

I agree with this, kid has only been playing basketball for a couple of years and has had back troubles, (though minor) and now a serious foot injury.

What's going to happen when he is playing 80 games + per season instead of 30?

If this was last year and you're choosing between Embiid and a bunch of 2nd tier guys like Bennett, Noel, and Zeller, then yeah maybe try your luck. But you've got two top tier wings sitting there so why risk it all?

[hawkfan]

I agree with this, kid has only been playing basketball for a couple of years and has had back troubles, (though minor) and now a serious foot injury.

What's going to happen when he is playing 80 games + per season instead of 30?

If this was last year and you're choosing between Embiid and a bunch of 2nd tier guys like Bennett, Noel, and Zeller, then yeah maybe try your luck. But you've got two top tier wings sitting there so why risk it all?

One guy always falls from the top 3 to the top 10 (Andre Drummond is an example).

And then another guy falls from top 10 to top 15.

Hopefully this year, Embiid will fall to no. 15 for the Hawks.

Pretty much every other team before us (except Phoenix) can't really afford to take a risk. The Suns have a few other picks and already have a number of big men on their roster, so they could afford to draft Embiid at no. 14 if he falls. Hopefully they won't.

[hawksdogsbraves]

One guy always falls from the top 3 to the top 10 (Andre Drummond is an example).

And then another guy falls from top 10 to top 15.

Hopefully this year, Embiid will fall to no. 15 for the Hawks.

Pretty much every other team before us (except Phoenix) can't really afford to take a risk. The Suns have a few other picks and already have a number of big men on their roster, so they could afford to draft Embiid at no. 14 if he falls. Hopefully they won't.

I don't see that happening, but would love it if it did.

I'd roll the dice on Embiid at 15 even if I knew for a FACT that there was only a 15% chance that he could have a healthy career.