Lebron>> Bird

[rlsmooth775]

Won more Mvp awards same amount of Finals mvp awards better scorer average wise and scoring more in total in less games. He was actually able to defend his NBA title unlike bird

[The_Pharcyde]

Nope

[La Frescobaldi]

Nope.

[TheReal Kendall]

Nope.

[JohnFreeman]

Agreed

[zoom17]

Yep.

[kamil]

LeShortcut over Bird?

LOL

[HoopsFanNumero1]

Debatable at this point. Will easily be Lebron by the time his career is done

[AintNoSunshine]

Yep

[ArbitraryWater]

Yep.

[fpliii]

Depends how much you value shooting and rebounding (Bird's advantages). LeBron's main arguments here are due to his ball-handling (can't argue with this) and defense (Bird was a great help defender and man defender in the post, just had trouble guarding super quick players on the perimeter...would play the 4 today anyway since he wouldn't have McHale/Parish/Walton on his teams, so it wouldn't be an issue), as well as overall athleticism.

How about imagining Bird and LeBron on the same team? LeDamn.

[The_Pharcyde]

Let's wait till Leprosy passes Kendall Gill before we compare him to Larry Bird

[Micku]

Depends how much you value shooting and rebounding (Bird's advantages). LeBron's main arguments here are due to his ball-handling (can't argue with this) and defense (Bird was a great help defender and man defender in the post, just had trouble guarding super quick players on the perimeter...would play the 4 today anyway since he wouldn't have McHale/Parish/Walton on his teams, so it wouldn't be an issue), as well as overall athleticism.

How about imagining Bird and LeBron on the same team? LeDamn.

The passing would like watching art in motion if they were on the same team. And they were compliment each other very well since Bird don't need the ball much.

Anyway, I think LBJ is more efficient with his play with the stats obviously backing it up. LBJ is more unstoppable in the paint by being the better finisher.

Bird had more skills with the post and better playing off the ball, though recently LBJ improved this as well with being a very good catch and shoot player, but not as good as Bird with his overall off the ball movement. As you said, Bird is the better rebounder and shooter.

I think it's definitely debatable and LBJ may have more accomplishments when it's all said and done.

[JohnFreeman]

Bird played on the most stacked team ever

[KendrickPerkins]

:roll:

I thought I told you to go to sleep, boy?

Best be doing it right now before I whip out the belt.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Nope.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Nope.

Gimme peak/prime Bird, still.

Larry Legend was a better shooter from pretty much everywhere, better in the post, better footwork, greater soft-touch with either hand, better passer, better rebounder and hustled more, better team and post defender, above in terms of intangibles, things like clutch-play, leadership, physicality, agressiveness, mind toughness, basketball IQ, court-awareness...
Also, he could score and dominate in many different ways, no clear strategy against a guy like him, he could adjust to any offensive/defensive strategy and could mesh with any type of teammate, knew when to step down and when to step up, and never needed to overhandle the ball, didn't change (for the worse) the "game" of some of his best teammates.
Very close but Bird's the best overall player, at their best.

Y'all wanna talk about McHale or Parish? Ok. Before they even got there Bird led the Celtics from 2nd worst record (29W) to the best record (61W) in the league, with basically the same roster, as a rookie. In 1981, Cowens got traded and they got Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, and Bird led them to a title, as a sophomore; McHale was a non-factor at that point, averaged like 8/3 in the playoffs, in fact not even in 1984 did McHale averaged more than 15 in the Playoffs, and only really came into his own by 1985, then injuring himself in 1987.
When Bird was out in 1989, Celtics dropped by 15W and were swept in the 1st round, and this is with the "addition" of Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. Larry comes back as a shell in 1990 and they win 10 more.

Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he stayed in GS, DJ the same if he never joined the Celtics. Only McHale can I see being one in many situations (and Walton but he only was there as a shell for a season), if he didn't get injured too soon. People only look at names or fame and such, Bird had great teammates yea but he also played in a tremendous league and "made" teammates.

Look at "examples" like the 1984 Playoffs... With his teammates really underperforming, Larry "carried" them to the title, facing great competition, even the mighty and super-stacked showtime Lakers in the Finals. Doing things like going wild on the Lakers, killing a great Bucks team, outscoring peak Bernard King.
He led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and was 3rd in blocks and 3P% with more 3's taken (!!!:bowdown:)
Larry scored 10 more than the next "best" teammate, and looking at %'s:
Bird - 52.4% FG
DJ/Parish/McHale/Henderson/Maxwell combined (ones scoring over 10 ppg) - 46.9% FG
All of the Celtics' players combined, excluding Bird - 45.8% FG
League average (post-season) - 48.2% FG

In 1986, things were clicking, everything "aligned", great teammates and whatnot, look at what happened... He did even way more than what he was supposed to, they just raped the whole league and he was playing unreal basketball, leading the way for arguably the GOAT team.

With Larry as their leader, the Celtics beat 10 50+ wins teams in 9 prime seasons (before injuries), when Lebron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years ahahah... Not to mention 60 win teams, shit he went against dynasties and some of the greatest, most stacked teams ever.

Faced competition for MVP, like Magic, Kareem, Moses, Jordan, Erving, Wilkins, King, Gervin... And played in the best, deepest era for SF's, the position he played during his best years. Lebron ain't ****ing with that.

Also, Bird didn't play in a soft-ass league with today's high level of superstar treatment and things of that nature, rules like traveling or offensive fouls don't even matter sometimes. Nowadays you can't even breathe on a player when he's shooting :lol Larry was getting held and scratched, getting checked hard on his way to the rim, roughed up in the post, so on, and he just came back more agressive and playing better, trash-talking people.. Lebron complains about physicality, looks at the refs everytime, gets way with tremendous star treatment and soft-calls, plus travels and offensive fouls, so on.. lmfao. Try something like the rip-through move in the 80's and refs wouldn't even look at you :oldlol:

Larry played in a much tougher league, faced more competition in terms of teams and stars, and he didn't join two already established superstars, one a top5 player (wanna talk about his stacked cast or something, read the above and don't go by names).

Larry Bird = GOAT forward
People who actually know their basketball and saw enough from both, will tell you the same. Put that shit to rest.

[Rodmantheman]

Nope.

Gimme peak/prime Bird, still.

Larry Legend was a better shooter from pretty much everywhere, better in the post, better footwork, greater soft-touch with either hand, better passer, better rebounder and hustled more, better team and post defender, above in terms of intangibles, things like clutch-play, leadership, physicality, agressiveness, mind toughness, basketball IQ, court-awareness...
Also, he could score and dominate in many different ways, no clear strategy against a guy like him, he could adjust to any offensive/defensive strategy and could mesh with any type of teammate, knew when to step down and when to step up, and never needed to overhandle the ball, didn't change (for the worse) the "game" of some of his best teammates.
Very close but Bird's the best overall player, at their best.

Y'all wanna talk about McHale or Parish? Ok. Before they even got there Bird led the Celtics from 2nd worst record (29W) to the best record (61W) in the league, with basically the same roster, as a rookie. In 1981, Cowens got traded and they got Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, and Bird led them to a title, as a sophomore; McHale was a non-factor at that point, averaged like 8/3 in the playoffs, in fact not even in 1984 did McHale averaged more than 15 in the Playoffs, and only really came into his own by 1985, then injuring himself in 1987.
When Bird was out in 1989, Celtics dropped by 15W and were swept in the 1st round, and this is with the "addition" of Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. Larry comes back as a shell in 1990 and they win 10 more.

Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he stayed in GS, DJ the same if he never joined the Celtics. Only McHale can I see being one in many situations (and Walton but he only was there as a shell for a season), if he didn't get injured too soon. People only look at names or fame and such, Bird had great teammates yea but he also played in a tremendous league and "made" teammates.

Look at "examples" like the 1984 Playoffs... With his teammates really underperforming, Larry "carried" them to the title, facing great competition, even the mighty and super-stacked showtime Lakers in the Finals. Doing things like going wild on the Lakers, killing a great Bucks team, outscoring peak Bernard King.
He led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and was 3rd in blocks and 3P% with more 3's taken (!!!:bowdown:)
Larry scored 10 more than the next "best" teammate, and looking at %'s:
Bird - 52.4% FG
DJ/Parish/McHale/Henderson/Maxwell combined (ones scoring over 10 ppg) - 46.9% FG
All of the Celtics' players combined, excluding Bird - 45.8% FG
League average (post-season) - 48.2% FG

In 1986, things were clicking, everything "aligned", great teammates and whatnot, look at what happened... He did even way more than what he was supposed to, they just raped the whole league and he was playing unreal basketball, leading the way for arguably the GOAT team.

With Larry as their leader, the Celtics beat 10 50+ wins teams in 9 prime seasons (before injuries), when Lebron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years ahahah... Not to mention 60 win teams, shit he went against dynasties and some of the greatest, most stacked teams ever.

Faced competition for MVP, like Magic, Kareem, Moses, Jordan, Erving, Wilkins, King, Gervin... And played in the best, deepest era for SF's, the position he played during his best years. Lebron ain't ****ing with that.

Also, Bird didn't play in a soft-ass league with today's high level of superstar treatment and things of that nature, rules like traveling or offensive fouls don't even matter sometimes. Nowadays you can't even breathe on a player when he's shooting :lol Larry was getting held and scratched, getting checked hard on his way to the rim, roughed up in the post, so on, and he just came back more agressive and playing better, trash-talking people.. Lebron complains about physicality, looks at the refs everytime, gets way with tremendous star treatment and soft-calls, plus travels and offensive fouls, so on.. lmfao. Try something like the rip-through move in the 80's and refs wouldn't even look at you :oldlol:

Larry played in a much tougher league, faced more competition in terms of teams and stars, and he didn't join two already established superstars, one a top5 player (wanna talk about his stacked cast or something, read the above and don't go by names).

Larry Bird = GOAT forward
People who actually know their basketball and saw enough from both, will tell you the same. Put that shit to rest.



Lebron> Bird

[KendrickPerkins]

Nope.

Gimme peak/prime Bird, still.

Larry Legend was a better shooter from pretty much everywhere, better in the post, better footwork, greater soft-touch with either hand, better passer, better rebounder and hustled more, better team and post defender, above in terms of intangibles, things like clutch-play, leadership, physicality, agressiveness, mind toughness, basketball IQ, court-awareness...
Also, he could score and dominate in many different ways, no clear strategy against a guy like him, he could adjust to any offensive/defensive strategy and could mesh with any type of teammate, knew when to step down and when to step up, and never needed to overhandle the ball, didn't change (for the worse) the "game" of some of his best teammates.
Very close but Bird's the best overall player, at their best.

Y'all wanna talk about McHale or Parish? Ok. Before they even got there Bird led the Celtics from 2nd worst record (29W) to the best record (61W) in the league, with basically the same roster, as a rookie. In 1981, Cowens got traded and they got Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, and Bird led them to a title, as a sophomore; McHale was a non-factor at that point, averaged like 8/3 in the playoffs, in fact not even in 1984 did McHale averaged more than 15 in the Playoffs, and only really came into his own by 1985, then injuring himself in 1987.
When Bird was out in 1989, Celtics dropped by 15W and were swept in the 1st round, and this is with the "addition" of Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. Larry comes back as a shell in 1990 and they win 10 more.

Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he stayed in GS, DJ the same if he never joined the Celtics. Only McHale can I see being one in many situations (and Walton but he only was there as a shell for a season), if he didn't get injured too soon. People only look at names or fame and such, Bird had great teammates yea but he also played in a tremendous league and "made" teammates.

Look at "examples" like the 1984 Playoffs... With his teammates really underperforming, Larry "carried" them to the title, facing great competition, even the mighty and super-stacked showtime Lakers in the Finals. Doing things like going wild on the Lakers, killing a great Bucks team, outscoring peak Bernard King.
He led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and was 3rd in blocks and 3P% with more 3's taken (!!!:bowdown:)
Larry scored 10 more than the next "best" teammate, and looking at %'s:
Bird - 52.4% FG
DJ/Parish/McHale/Henderson/Maxwell combined (ones scoring over 10 ppg) - 46.9% FG
All of the Celtics' players combined, excluding Bird - 45.8% FG
League average (post-season) - 48.2% FG

In 1986, things were clicking, everything "aligned", great teammates and whatnot, look at what happened... He did even way more than what he was supposed to, they just raped the whole league and he was playing unreal basketball, leading the way for arguably the GOAT team.

With Larry as their leader, the Celtics beat 10 50+ wins teams in 9 prime seasons (before injuries), when Lebron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years ahahah... Not to mention 60 win teams, shit he went against dynasties and some of the greatest, most stacked teams ever.

Faced competition for MVP, like Magic, Kareem, Moses, Jordan, Erving, Wilkins, King, Gervin... And played in the best, deepest era for SF's, the position he played during his best years. Lebron ain't ****ing with that.

Also, Bird didn't play in a soft-ass league with today's high level of superstar treatment and things of that nature, rules like traveling or offensive fouls don't even matter sometimes. Nowadays you can't even breathe on a player when he's shooting :lol Larry was getting held and scratched, getting checked hard on his way to the rim, roughed up in the post, so on, and he just came back more agressive and playing better, trash-talking people.. Lebron complains about physicality, looks at the refs everytime, gets way with tremendous star treatment and soft-calls, plus travels and offensive fouls, so on.. lmfao. Try something like the rip-through move in the 80's and refs wouldn't even look at you :oldlol:

Larry played in a much tougher league, faced more competition in terms of teams and stars, and he didn't join two already established superstars, one a top5 player (wanna talk about his stacked cast or something, read the above and don't go by names).

Larry Bird = GOAT forward
People who actually know their basketball and saw enough from both, will tell you the same. Put that shit to rest.

:bowdown:

Dat boldness.

[Cold soul]

Nope.

[LeBird]

As an aside, Bird today would probably play as PF and be abusing the league, straight up.

28/12/7 kind of stat-line.

[atljonesbro]

Debatable now, another Championship makes this undebatable. Clear cut Bron.

[LeBird]

Debatable now, another Championship makes this undebatable. Clear cut Bron.

It will never be undebatable. Any one of Bird/Magic/Jordan/Wilt/Russell/Kareem are legit in the GOAT debate. Lebron will just join that debate.

[cltcfn2924]

Bird played on the most stacked team ever


I don't know why you guys fall into this all the time. Parish was a good scorer/rebounder wit GS. Bird made him great. He wouldn't sniff the HOF without Bird. McHale would have been a really good PF with anybody, Bird made him great. DJ simply doesn't make the HOF without him. I guess you guys are just too young, but you're dead wrong with that statement. At the same time Magic was busy making Worthy a HOFer, and making Kareem better than he ever was. That is how these two guys brought the NBA back from the dead. Just stop with "they were blessed with stacked teams". They created them.

[poido123]

If he isn't better than Bird at this point, would he be sitting about 7 all time?

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Bird
Lebron
Magic
Kobe

[Quickening]

Anyone who actually thinks Bird was a better all round player than Lebron is either a hater or can't get past nostalgia. It isn't even debatable.


As an aside, Bird today would probably play as PF and be abusing the league, straight up.

28/12/7 kind of stat-line.

This kind of chit is laughable, even though Bird played in a faster paced era where the stats were more inflated than today, his stats would somehow shoot up across the board?

[Psileas]

Lebron>> Bird

Why do people always feel the urge to put there more than one ">"? Do you realize that ">>" pretty much means that "LeBron trumps Bird"?

[Paul George 24]

Bird played on the most stacked team ever

bird turns boston from 29 wins to 61 wins his rookie season :banana:

[Jlamb47]

I hate Lebron but id have to put him over Bird. Lebron is a better 2 way player IMO. Only thing Bird has is shooting. both rebounds and pass well, and both can score in there ways.

[Paul George 24]

I hate Lebron but id have to put him over Bird. Lebron is a better 2 way player IMO. Only thing Bird has is shooting. both rebounds and pass well, and both can score in there ways.

bird is the most clutch in nba history :banana:

[Jlamb47]

bird is the most clutch in nba history :banana:

I give him that ove Lebron, i would definetly put the ball in his hands, but i havnt watched enough Bird for that so maybe my opinion dont matter. But as much as i hate Lebron hes on the run of being top 5 of all time.

[bizil]

Nope.

Gimme peak/prime Bird, still.

Larry Legend was a better shooter from pretty much everywhere, better in the post, better footwork, greater soft-touch with either hand, better passer, better rebounder and hustled more, better team and post defender, above in terms of intangibles, things like clutch-play, leadership, physicality, agressiveness, mind toughness, basketball IQ, court-awareness...
Also, he could score and dominate in many different ways, no clear strategy against a guy like him, he could adjust to any offensive/defensive strategy and could mesh with any type of teammate, knew when to step down and when to step up, and never needed to overhandle the ball, didn't change (for the worse) the "game" of some of his best teammates.
Very close but Bird's the best overall player, at their best.

Y'all wanna talk about McHale or Parish? Ok. Before they even got there Bird led the Celtics from 2nd worst record (29W) to the best record (61W) in the league, with basically the same roster, as a rookie. In 1981, Cowens got traded and they got Parish who was already 27 and never viewed as all that, and Bird led them to a title, as a sophomore; McHale was a non-factor at that point, averaged like 8/3 in the playoffs, in fact not even in 1984 did McHale averaged more than 15 in the Playoffs, and only really came into his own by 1985, then injuring himself in 1987.
When Bird was out in 1989, Celtics dropped by 15W and were swept in the 1st round, and this is with the "addition" of Reggie Lewis coming into his own.. Larry comes back as a shell in 1990 and they win 10 more.

Parish wouldn't have been a HoF'er if he stayed in GS, DJ the same if he never joined the Celtics. Only McHale can I see being one in many situations (and Walton but he only was there as a shell for a season), if he didn't get injured too soon. People only look at names or fame and such, Bird had great teammates yea but he also played in a tremendous league and "made" teammates.

Look at "examples" like the 1984 Playoffs... With his teammates really underperforming, Larry "carried" them to the title, facing great competition, even the mighty and super-stacked showtime Lakers in the Finals. Doing things like going wild on the Lakers, killing a great Bucks team, outscoring peak Bernard King.
He led the team in points, rebounds, assists, steals, FG% and FT%, and was 3rd in blocks and 3P% with more 3's taken (!!!:bowdown:)
Larry scored 10 more than the next "best" teammate, and looking at %'s:
Bird - 52.4% FG
DJ/Parish/McHale/Henderson/Maxwell combined (ones scoring over 10 ppg) - 46.9% FG
All of the Celtics' players combined, excluding Bird - 45.8% FG
League average (post-season) - 48.2% FG

In 1986, things were clicking, everything "aligned", great teammates and whatnot, look at what happened... He did even way more than what he was supposed to, they just raped the whole league and he was playing unreal basketball, leading the way for arguably the GOAT team.

With Larry as their leader, the Celtics beat 10 50+ wins teams in 9 prime seasons (before injuries), when Lebron didn't even reach 7 in 11 years ahahah... Not to mention 60 win teams, shit he went against dynasties and some of the greatest, most stacked teams ever.

Faced competition for MVP, like Magic, Kareem, Moses, Jordan, Erving, Wilkins, King, Gervin... And played in the best, deepest era for SF's, the position he played during his best years. Lebron ain't ****ing with that.

Also, Bird didn't play in a soft-ass league with today's high level of superstar treatment and things of that nature, rules like traveling or offensive fouls don't even matter sometimes. Nowadays you can't even breathe on a player when he's shooting :lol Larry was getting held and scratched, getting checked hard on his way to the rim, roughed up in the post, so on, and he just came back more agressive and playing better, trash-talking people.. Lebron complains about physicality, looks at the refs everytime, gets way with tremendous star treatment and soft-calls, plus travels and offensive fouls, so on.. lmfao. Try something like the rip-through move in the 80's and refs wouldn't even look at you :oldlol:

Larry played in a much tougher league, faced more competition in terms of teams and stars, and he didn't join two already established superstars, one a top5 player (wanna talk about his stacked cast or something, read the above and don't go by names).

Larry Bird = GOAT forward
People who actually know their basketball and saw enough from both, will tell you the same. Put that shit to rest.


Peak wise, Bird certainly can still be considered the best SF ever. However GOAT wise, Lebron CERTAINLY has a case over Bird right now as we speak. Lebron has accomplished enough for a great case. And it's inevitable that Bron will pass Bird on the GOAT list. But for me peak wise, I will take Lebron overall EVEN THOUGH i feel Bird is a better alpha dog. And if Bron played in that era in the 80's, he would have put in major work and battle Bird for SF supremacy. But U made great points and i can't argue at all for u choosing Bird over Bron.

[mr4speed]

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Nope.

Gimme peak/prime Bird, still.

Larry Legend was a better shooter from pretty much everywhere, better in the post, better footwork, greater soft-touch with either hand, better passer, better rebounder and hustled more, better team and post defender, above in terms of intangibles, things like clutch-play, leadership, physicality, agressiveness, mind toughness, basketball IQ, court-awareness...
Also, he could score and dominate in many different ways, no clear strategy against a guy like him, he could adjust to any offensive/defensive strategy and could mesh with any type of teammate, knew when to step down and when to step up, and never needed to overhandle the ball, didn't change (for the worse) the "game" of some of his best teammates.
Very close but Bird's the best overall player, at their best.

Agreed and well said. Bird had an edge I don't see in Lebron. If you messed with Bird, you had a fight on your hands no matter who you were! Think of Dr. J and Bird at each others throats, or Bird and Kareem screaming at each other in the 84 finals. How about Bird telling Xavier "I'm going to shoot the ball right here in your "F" ing face and win the game and there is nothing you can do about it", and then doing exactly what he had said. Bird had intangibles and grit that motivated his teammates. If you watched Bird you could see it and sense it - and this is just my opinion, but I think Bird was a better passer than Lebron. You can compare assists but Bird's passes drew you out of your seat. Like the bounce pass between Sikma's legs (playoff game) or the super fast "bat-pass" to an open teammate or the no-look to Parrish vs Bucks (playoff game) that had Hubie Brown yelling into the microphone "Oh my God, How'd he do that!". I have not seen Lebron match Bird's creativity or court vision. Maybe it is too early to make this judgement and we need to wait until Lebron is retired, but Bird's overall game, presence and impact were better so far.

[LeBird]

This kind of chit is laughable, even though Bird played in a faster paced era where the stats were more inflated than today, his stats would somehow shoot up across the board?

The pace argument doesn't actually affect star players.

But yes, especially in the case where the board presence in the NBA and the bigmen are awful; it would make Bird's job all the more easier.

You're also making the mistake of juxtaposing with his career numbers. I am just using the kind of statline he was very capable of making and Bird's career numbers also have his injury plagued seasons. I'm assuming he's healthy, of course.

[nathanjizzle]

nah. :no:

[stalkerforlife]

Nope.