'84-'87 Boston Celtics vs '11-'14 Miami Heat

[1987_Lakers]

Both teams made the Finals 4 straight years, which team is greater?

[SHAQisGOAT]

Both teams? That's 8 different teams right there, I mean Celtics were different in 1984 and in 1986 (when they won), even in 86 and 87, similar stuff for the Heat.

1986 Celtics certainly on top there, arguably the GOAT team, and would beat any Heat team.

1984 C's were younger, had better perimeter defense and athleticism, than in 86, but not as great overall D nor as great O, Bird was doing more "carrying" and going buckwild though... Terrific team nontheless, and beat a better team than the Heat, in the Finals.

Talking about strictly the Finals (which is important here), best Miami team would stand great chances against the 1985 and 1987 Celtics, in these scenarios they would probably win... In the 1985 Finals, Bird had hand and elbow injury, couldn't give his best, Cornbread was injured and a non-factor, Ainge was not in his prime yet, Henderson was traded for a 1st round pick (Bias)... In the 1987 Finals, Celtics reached there beat up after really gruelsome series, McHale on a broken foot, Parish and Ainge with issues, team getting old, virtually no bench, Bird wasn't 100%... I ain't seeing MIA beating 1984 Celtics though, and no chance against 1986

[TheReal Kendall]

Can we get a roster?

[IllegalD]

The team that didn't do it in the weakest era in the post-Jordan times.

The team who played in a "Golden Era" where most of the top teams had multiple all-stars/HOFs. The team that at the very least had ON OTHER team (the Lakers) that were worthy adversaries and as stacked as they were.

[StrongLurk]

The team that didn't do it in the weakest era in the post-Jordan times.

The team who played in a "Golden Era" where most of the top teams had multiple all-stars/HOFs. The team that at the very least had ON OTHER team (the Lakers) that were worthy adversaries and as stacked as they were.

This is now and pretty much always.

[Micku]

I think the Celtics beat better teams overall. The Eastern conference was tougher back then.

The 84 Lakers team is probably better than any team that the Heat face in terms of talent.

The 85 Celtics beat the 76ers and the a young Pistons team. The 85 and 86 Celts were pretty stacked. And the 86 Celts maybe one of the GOAT teams.

And the 87 Celts team also faced against another one of the GOAT teams with 87 Lakers. And the 85 Lakers were also better than any team the Heat faced so far.

In terms of who would beat each other in a seven game series?

Well...I think the Celts are a horrible matchup to the Heat because of their frontline. The Celts have arguably the GOAT frontline. LBJ would have to play at of his mind I would think, and he probably could.

Mchale would probably guard LBJ. Mchale is a worthy defender since he guarded guys like Wilkins, Worthy, B.King and stuff while Bird would guard the PFs or the weakest link on the team. So, he'll guard guys like Haslem or Bosh. I don't think Mchale could guard LBJ effectively, but I dunno. Mchale just could beg him to shoot similar to what the Spurs did, and it maybe unwise to take Mchale to the post. He had the footwork to keep up with guys like Wilkins and Worthy off the dribble as well, amazingly enough.

But this is the problem. One of the the Heat's strength is play small ball to spread them the frontline apart. But the Celts are very good rebounders on their team. You got Bird who is a better rebounder than anyone one Heat, Parish, Mchale, and Walton coming off the bench. They would probably suffer on the offensive end with the rebounds and they may not get many offensive rebounds either.

The Celts are also a very good fast break team and one of the best passing team in NBA history. The Heat aren't bad themselves tho. LeBron and D-Wade are a killer. One of the things that the Heat could do is double in the post. They are very quick to go back to cover the shooters. While the Celts do have a lot of shooters, they don't really ultize the 3pt shot that well. They had the potential to, I think. With Ainge, Bird, Wedman, and Sichting. The Heat have more, so they could spread the Celts out like I said earlier.

Now, if the Celts could protect the paint with Parish, Mchale, and Walton, then it'll be hard for the Heat to overcome. But it depends on the rules. Like Mchale would probably be a better defender guarding the perimeter players in the 80s than he would in the 10s. The Celts could protect the paint slightly better in the 80s than in the 10s probably. But I dunno. The zone defense could help them out a lot.

It depends on the Heat defense. And it also depends on which Celtics team. I'm just assuming it'll be the 86 against the current team. The Celts were different team from 84-87.

tldr version:
Parish, Mchale, and Bird would eat the Heat's frontline alive.

[IllegalD]

This is now and pretty much always.

The Heat have 4 HOFs, which is comparable to the Lakers/Celtics of those times. What other team besides the Heat/Spurs has more than 2 HOFs? :confusedshrug:

[Jacks3]

Is this a joke?

[1987_Lakers]

Is this a joke?

Just thought it would be cool to make this thread since these are the only teams from the eastern conference to make the Finals 4 straight years since the 60's Celtics. Lakers made it four straight '82-'85.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Mchale would probably guard LBJ. Mchale is a worthy defender since he guarded guys like Wilkins, Worthy, B.King and stuff while Bird would guard the PFs or the weakest link on the team. So, he'll guard guys like Haslem or Bosh. I don't think Mchale could guard LBJ effectively, but I dunno. Mchale just could beg him to shoot similar to what the Spurs did, and it maybe unwise to take Mchale to the post. He had the footwork to keep up with guys like Wilkins and Worthy off the dribble as well, amazingly enough.


Yea, on that 1986 squad McHale would most likely guard Lebron, Kevin was pretty tall with really long arms, very good shotblocker, smart, great defender with good footwork like you've said, especially for his size, guarded some great offensive players on the perimeter yes, and true, he could also give some space to prevent the drive (if Bron didn't start to get hot from distance); another good option would be DJ though, at that point he wasn't as quick or athletic as in his younger days, not only because of age but more because he had put on considerable weight, so he was stronger and handled lots of big players (better), and still a great defender (think of J Kidd guarding Bron), we've seen James being defended by guys of that size or smaller and not even as good of defenders. Wedman, off the bench, would be solid because of his body and strength.

In 1984 Lebron would be guarded by Maxwell though, rotating with Bird and McHale when he was off the bench. At that point, Cornbread was the one who used to guard the best SF's, mostly (in the early 80's it was him or Bird though, probably Larry more)...
And like I've said, that 84 squad was younger, more athletic and better defensively on the perimeter with DJ, Henderson, Maxwell, Buckner, McHale, Bird who was better there, also had Ainge; they weren't as good overall defensively as in 86, less paint protection, worse overall offensively also with Bird having to carrying them more, but that defensive pressure on the perimeter would be great against the Heat, plus offense was still great with great individual players and Larry going buckwild. No chance against the 1986 Celtics, and I really can't see them winning against the 1984 squad. In 1985 and 1987, I can see MIA getting the win, IF the C's were in the same "conditions" as it happened in the Finals back then.

[The-Legend-24]

01 Lakers >

[inclinerator]

celtics had a better team
they probably had the goat team tbh

[jstern]

I didn't see those Celtics team, probably like most people who will give their opinion about the matter.

I trust Micku's opinion since he's one of the more reasonable people on these boards.

[TylerOO]

The one with LeGod!

[Micku]

I didn't see those Celtics team, probably like most people who will give their opinion about the matter.

Then watch some some vids. You can get an idea of how they play if you watch several games.

Their passing was great. It's amazing how Mchale and Parish would lead in the fastbreak sometimes. And Mchale was amazing in the post. He could also hit a jumper too.

[jstern]

Then watch some some vids. You can get an idea of how they play if you watch several games.

Their passing was great. It's amazing how Mchale and Parish would lead in the fastbreak sometimes. And Mchale was amazing in the post. He could also hit a jumper too.

That's true. The problem is getting my hand on all the games.

[Micku]

That's true. The problem is getting my hand on all the games.

I don't think you'll find all the games, but you'll find some. The playoff games are the most easily accessible. Especially the finals. RS are more rare.

You can to see how awesome Bird move off the ball and stuff and how he can find ppl with his passing. And his help defense. Pretty good stuff right there. But not only the Celts, you can watch other teams and how they play as well.

Very different from today's game. But I think you'll like it for the reason of how it's so different. Both bad and good. The game was just different.

[LAZERUSS]

I'll take the Lakers from '82 thru '85; '84 thru '87; or '80 thru '83.

[BlackWhiteGreen]

I'll take the Lakers from '82 thru '85; '84 thru '87; or '80 thru '83.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08

[LAZERUSS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lITBGjNEp08

Even Marv takes those Laker teams...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv1kApvEPiY

[LAZERUSS]

Oh, and the '85 thru '88 Lakers, as well.

[iamgine]

Who's greater? For now it's the Celtics. Could change depending how long Miami can sustain this and how dominant they could perform.

Match up wise, it's tough to tell due to rule changes along with the much increased 3 points attempted. Three ball could present a huge problem for the Celtics since they're not used to defending it.

On paper though, Bird and Lebron is very close. But I'd rather have Mchale than old Wade, Parish than Bosh, DJ than Chalmers.

[Derka]

Good grief, how is this a question?

You gonna defend Parrish and McHale in their primes with Haslem, Bosh and Birdman?!?

[Papaya Petee]

Haters are always gonna pick any other championship team over the Heat :roll: :roll:

[Just2McFly]

Good grief, how is this a question?

You gonna defend Parrish and McHale in their primes with Haslem, Bosh and Birdman?!?
One question: Where is Bird hiding on Defense in this one? He and Mchale are getting ROASTED

[Derka]

One question: Where is Bird hiding on Defense in this one? He and Mchale are getting ROASTED

If Bird is even guarding Lebron to begin with, yeah Bird's not quick enough or strong enough to defend Lebron one-on-one. But Bosh roasting McHale? F*ck outta here with that shit.

[Just2McFly]

If Bird is even guarding Lebron to begin with, yeah Bird's not quick enough or strong enough to defend Lebron one-on-one. But Bosh roasting McHale? F*ck outta here with that shit.
I was insinuating that they would put Mchale on Lebron, like what they did with Nique back in the 80's giving Bird nowhere to hide since he can't roam off of bosh.

[Micku]

One question: Where is Bird hiding on Defense in this one? He and Mchale are getting ROASTED

I don't know if Mchale would get roasted or not if he guarded LBJ. He won't stop him, but Mchale is a very good defender. Post and perimeter. He guarded James Worthy who had a quicker first step than LBJ and Worthy was better in the post. But then again, you can say that Worthy roast Mchale. LBJ would try to take him off the dribble or go through screens with Mchale. I don't think LBJ would try to post him up.

And with Bosh? I don't think Bosh would beat him off the dribble. If he can't do that, then meh. Bird would probably still roam and gamble tho. Teams do that now. It depends on whatever or not Bosh is on with his shot. I do think Bosh would get a lot of open looks like he does now.

I think it's more of the style of play. Like the Celtics would try to battle for the offensive board more often which makes them vulnerable for the fast break. And Mchale and Parish are very good finishers at the fast break too. And Parish, Mchale, Walton and Bird would probably destroy the Heat on the boards and get them the Celts second chance points. Since this is the biggest weakness for the Heat and the Celts are arguably the greatest frontline ever, I don't know if this is a good matchup. The Celts might get a lot of easy layups and shoot over the Heat frontline.

I think the Heat have to really break down the Celts defense and get some open jumpers. And be on fire from 3.

[leopoldstotch]

We can talk about bird, mchale, and parish, but there are also dennis johnson and danny ainge. Would take these guys over chalmers and cole.

[LAZERUSS]

Those Laker teams of the 80's had an ace in the hole..."The Bird-Stopper", Michael Cooper. He would have given Lebron as much trouble as any player who has ever defended him.

Then, they had Magic at PG, with either Nixon or later on, Scott, at the SG (both were 20 ppg scorers.) And either Wilkes, or, of course, Big Game James at the SF position.

And from '80 thru '85, they would have a Kareem who would have scoring at will against the under-sized, and talent-limited centers of the Heat. Or, they could bring in McAdoo in the early 80's, and he would get them 15-20 ppg off the bench, and at either the PF or Center slot. In the mid to late 80's, it would have been either AC Green or Mychael Thompson filling that role.

Player-for-player, the 80's Lakers would have been a matchup nightmare for the Heat.

[97 bulls]

Lets not dismiss Wade. No one has mentioned him yet. Who's gonna defend him?

If Boshs man leaves him to help on James, hes gonna have a lot of wide open Jumpers.

The Heat best team on the floor would be

James
Wade
Alllen
Bosh
Haslem


Birds gonna have to defend one of them. Perhaps Haslem. And even then, I see Haslem getting a lot of open base line Js due to Birds propensity to gamble.

I remember the games Haslems had vs the Bulls in 2011. They tried that same thing. Haslem had some monter games because of it.

[1987_Lakers]

Lets not dismiss Wade. No one has mentioned him yet. Who's gonna defend him?

If Boshs man leaves him to help on James, hes gonna have a lot of wide open Jumpers.

The Heat best team on the floor would be

James
Wade
Alllen
Bosh
Haslem


Birds gonna have to defend one of them. Perhaps Haslem. And even then, I see Haslem getting a lot of open base line Js due to Birds propensity to gamble.

I remember the games Haslems had vs the Bulls in 2011. They tried that same thing. Haslem had some monter games because of it.

Dennis Johnson the 9x All-Defensive selection

[Micku]

We can talk about bird, mchale, and parish, but there are also dennis johnson and danny ainge. Would take these guys over chalmers and cole.

DJ could post Chalmers up in a few possessions. And Ainge was a very good shooter. Someone the Heat don't want to leave open. They would rather leave DJ open. DJ is solid at the midrange, but not great like Ainge. Ainge also could come off screens and is a very good catch and shoot player. Plus he gets on your nerves. I think ppl compared him to Laimbeer in a way. Just like Laimbeer, Ainge makes ppl want to punch him. It won't do good against guys like Wade and LeBron probably, but Chalmers and Cole maybe.

[SHAQisGOAT]

I was insinuating that they would put Mchale on Lebron, like what they did with Nique back in the 80's giving Bird nowhere to hide since he can't roam off of bosh.

Hide? :lol Hide from what? As if Bird was a liability on defense :rolleyes: So, and in fact, he could do a good job on Bosh, better matchup than Lebron for him, he was actually good at guarding the post and could close-out if Bosh was hitting them jumpers.
Bird was close to 30 when McHale moved into the starting 5, he was also more needed for offense and more impactful by roaming on defense, plus more of a PF since the get-go and the Celtics had better options, so during those days he wasn't guarding the opponent's SF when that player was a great scorer... That always happened and will continue to, yea even from players like Bron or MJ, act like the contrary though, or call it hide lmfao. Furthermore if you check some game from the early 80s, you can see Bird guarding Dr J, Marques Johnson, young Nique even, and doing a pretty good job various times.
Oh and McHale was a great defender, very tall with really long arms, good feet, smart, really good shotblocker.. Plus don't forget the Celtics had guys like Parish, Walton, McHale or Bird, to protect the paint, great team defense and perimter pressure from other players too. Bron was just killing the Spurs with Diaw on him and the rest trying to pack the paint, right? :rolleyes: And that ain't as good as what the C's could "do", even throwing Bird at him, giving him space, then trying to funnel him into crowded area, or using his smartness and really quick hands. And like I've said, DJ could also be put on him, plenty of times he was guarded by smaller guys who couldn't defend as well as Dennis, and some of them did a good job.




If Bird is even guarding Lebron to begin with, yeah Bird's not quick enough or strong enough to defend Lebron one-on-one. But Bosh roasting McHale? F*ck outta here with that shit.

Quick? No. Strong? Don't underrate Bird's strength.. I've seen Barkley drapped all over him at the end of a game, then actually Charles ending up falling while Larry hit the gamewinner, I've seen Laimbeer getting overpowered in the post then Bird blocking him, Jordan or Rodman getting bullied, Moses and Barkley couldn't take him down (while J was punching him)... Bird was really strong.
And again he was pretty good at guarding the post, there's footage of him blocking Hakeem when guarding in down-low, fronting Sampson, stopping Worthy, so on.... Plus very smart with really quick hands, knew how to funnel players into crowded area, how to let them go then blocking or stealing the ball, knew how to draw charges, didn't get lost on rotations. He could give the space while the C's protect the paint, when guarding Bron.