Frank Vogel Called LeBron "The Michael Jordan of this era"

[atljonesbro]

Thoughts?

[Marlo_Stanfield]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[robert_shaww]

Thoughts?

:facepalm

[inclinerator]

no michael jordan was the lebron of his era

[DFish24]

Who's Pippen?

[SpaceJammeR]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[TylerOO]

LMAO I was just gonna make a thread.

Much respect. Real recognize real

[navy]

He's right. Lebron isnt close to Jordan but the idea is there.

[pmj]

Full job saving mode.

[pauk]

Well yea... :confusedshrug:

[TylerOO]

no michael jordan was the lebron of his era

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[DFish24]

Who's Pippen?

[Dro]

This is obvious...Lebron is the best player in the game so in that sense.....of course he is.....

[Marlo_Stanfield]

He's right. Lebron isnt close to Jordan but the idea is there.
http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif

[Real14]

Frank iz definitely snorting sumthing krazy

[K Xerxes]

I don't see how this is arguable. Doesn't mean he's as good as a player, but how dominant he is relative to everyone else and what he means to the league parallels Jordan.

[whippyAU]

Key words "Of this era"

[Real14]

http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif
http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif

[BlkMambaGOAT]

no michael jordan was the lebron of his era
:lebronamazed:

:coleman:

[GODbe]

He's right on point. It's just a politically correct way of calling LeBald extremely overrated without getting fined.

[Kingwillball]

And said "the Heat the Bulls of this era"..

[dubeta]

I understand his team lost but he doesn't have to disrespect LeBron like that
:facepalm

bitchmove

[moe94]

I don't see how this is arguable. Doesn't mean he's as good as a player, but how dominant he is relative to everyone else and what he means to the league parallels Jordan.

Is Durant closer to LeBron than Hakeem was to Jordan?

[DonDadda59]

Kobe's on his couch, eating Ben & Jerry's, salty as phuck right now :mad:

[zoom17]

http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif

http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif

[TylerOO]

He's right on point. It's just a politically correct way of calling LeBald extremely overrated without getting fined.

Go to sleep nerd

[Tmuston Beltics]

Who's Pippen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottie_Pippen

[moe94]

https://24.media.tumblr.com/609ddd4947a7dffd746618cae01a6acb/tumblr_my0taprdwA1qmgkdfo1_500.gif

[R.I.P.]

Thoughts?

He

[K Xerxes]

Is Durant closer to LeBron than Hakeem was to Jordan?

Good question. I personally rate Hakeem so highly that I'd answer no, but I think the majority answer would be yes or about the same.

This is of course taking into account that Durant might not have yet reached his peak. I think he could certainly have a more dominant post season run in the future.

[DaSeba5]

He's not comparing him to Jordan in terms of play. He means he is by far the best player and is the guy who will keep winning series. There were a lot good teams in the 90s, but you always knew the Bulls were going to win.

[Roundball_Rock]

Face it, he is right. Jordan dominated his decade in a way no other player did, although this partly was because he had no peer (i.e. Magic and Bird or Wilt and Russell being contemporaries); Lebron is on his way to doing the same with the 2010's.

[coin24]

Weak era of Jordan comparisons

[Smook A.]

no michael jordan was the lebron of his era
:whatever:

[zoom17]

Weak era of Jordan comparisons

Kobe was never Jordan of his era:roll: :roll: :roll:

[coin24]

Kobe was never Jordan of his era:roll: :roll: :roll:
Yeah cause he was >>>>>>Jordan duh..

[TheMarkMadsen]

Alvin Gentry after the 2010 WCF


"He's the best closer in the history of the game if you ask me," Gentry said. "Yeah, that is including Michael Jordan. I just think what he's done this year, to have six game-winning shots that come on the last possession of the game, I don't know if anybody has ever done that.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/2010/03/12/20100312lakers-kobe-bryant-suns.html#ixzz33GGpwWbg

coaches love to jump on the nuts of and overrate the players that send them packing

[Real14]

Kobe was never Jordan of his era:roll: :roll: :roll:
:biggums:

[DuMa]

He said it but it looked like he didnt even mean it. Hes just being politically correct because thats what a Coach has to say in order to stay employed or get that next job lined up.

Not that he is wrong though...

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I don't see how this is arguable. Doesn't mean he's as good as a player, but how dominant he is relative to everyone else and what he means to the league parallels Jordan.
Pretty much. Also this heat team is sort of built like the Bulls were (dominant wing players).

[sd3035]

Bran > MJ

[Keno]

Alvin Gentry after the 2010 WCF



coaches love to jump on the nuts of and overrate the players that send them packing

frank vogel > alvin gentry. lebron > kobe.

[Leftimage]

He's the Michael Jordan of his era,

What's more impressive to me is that he began his career on the premise that he was going to be the Michael Jordan of his era. He pulled through ! :eek: :eek:

As far as I'm concerned, LeBron has 100% lived up to the hype at this stage in his career - anything from here on out is just some history-shattering gravy.

And the Cavaliers are helping out his legacy immensely right now. Easily the most ridiculed & despised franchise in the NBA since LeBron left. All those ineffective seasons with number one picks... delicious irony.

Lebron's storyline is just... so... biblical. Like Jordan's was.

[KirbyPls]

He's right on point. It's just a politically correct way of calling LeBald extremely overrated without getting fined.

Jeff, I expect more from an owner. :facepalm

[Dro]

He's the Michael Jordan of his era,

What's more impressive to me is that he began his career on the premise that he was going to be the Michael Jordan of his era. He pulled through ! :eek: :eek:

As far as I'm concerned, LeBron has 100% lived up to the hype at this stage in his career - anything from here on out is just some history-shattering gravy.

And the Cavaliers are helping out his legacy immensely right now. Easily the most ridiculed & despised franchise in the NBA since LeBron left. All those ineffective seasons with number one picks... delicious irony.

Lebron's storyline is just... so... biblical. Like Jordan's was.
I have to give Lebron props for this too...Its rare that a player that receives that much hype actually lives up to it...but he has...:applause:

[9erempiree]

He will be fired for his poor coaching and his poor judgement. This statement proves it.

[KirbyPls]

Kobe's on his couch, eating Ben & Jerry's, salty as phuck right now :mad:

Love it Don. :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

duh.. so far

lol wtf? why is this even a thread

durant has a ways to go

[Ancient Legend]

You can call the Heat the Bulls of our era, but these Pacers are several tiers below the 90's Pacers that gave the Bulls hell for a while.

[kennethgriffin]

60's = russell era
70's = kareem era
80's = magic era
90's = jordan era
00's = kobe era
10's = lebron era

i'd say these guys were considered the best over their decades

some other guys were close in their respective eras.. like wilt to russ, or dr j to kareem. or bird to magic.. or duncan to kobe.. but overall dominance of their era individually, rings, respect wise.. those guys owned their eras

lebron isnt a lock yet though. he only has 2 titles still... and theres still 6 more years in the decade left

and anyone who wants to argue kobe

he went to 7 finals out of the decade for god sake...

[brantonli]

4 straight Finals appearance. as the yahoo article pointed it out, even Jordan didn't do it (86 celtics, 57-66 Celtics, 82-85 Lakers). That's just how dominant James has been to this league, just like Jordan was. Good comparison

[Bandito]

He's the Michael Jordan of his era,

What's more impressive to me is that he began his career on the premise that he was going to be the Michael Jordan of his era. He pulled through ! :eek: :eek:

As far as I'm concerned, LeBron has 100% lived up to the hype at this stage in his career - anything from here on out is just some history-shattering gravy.

And the Cavaliers are helping out his legacy immensely right now. Easily the most ridiculed & despised franchise in the NBA since LeBron left. All those ineffective seasons with number one picks... delicious irony.

Lebron's storyline is just... so... biblical. Like Jordan's was.
2011 finals choke says otherwise.

[East_Stone_Ya]

he is a winner now, so yes

[All Net]

Classy response. No matter what they say the pacers all respect Lebron Alot.

[alleykat]

Lol who would be if it wasn't then? It just means the best player of this era...dudes are reading too much into it. Next era it will be sumone else...move on.

[eliteballer]

He also said the Heat are the Bulls of this era...pfft:rolleyes:

[SillyRabbit]

Alvin Gentry after the 2010 WCF

coaches love to jump on the nuts of and overrate the players that send them packing

This.

Vogel is trying to downplay the embarrassing effort put forth by the Pacers by playing up LeBron's ability.

[AintNoSunshine]

He's the Michael Jordan of his era,

What's more impressive to me is that he began his career on the premise that he was going to be the Michael Jordan of his era. He pulled through ! :eek: :eek:

As far as I'm concerned, LeBron has 100% lived up to the hype at this stage in his career - anything from here on out is just some history-shattering gravy.

And the Cavaliers are helping out his legacy immensely right now. Easily the most ridiculed & despised franchise in the NBA since LeBron left. All those ineffective seasons with number one picks... delicious irony.

Lebron's storyline is just... so... biblical. Like Jordan's was.:applause:

[dude77]

he didn't mean he was michael jordan .. but like the bulls and jordan, he and the heat are always the target and always come out on top these days .. the big dogs of the league like the bulls were

[dude77]

Kobe's on his couch, eating Ben & Jerry's, salty as phuck right now :mad:

lol'ed

[Paul George 24]

no michael jordan was the lebron of his era

jordan = rich man lebron :rockon:

[Paul George 24]

http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif

jordan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lebron :banana:

[Paul George 24]

Yeah cause he was >>>>>>Jordan duh..
2 fmvp nuff said :oldlol:

[Paul George 24]

Bran > MJ

mj >>>>>>>> bran on both ends :no:

[Paul George 24]

He's the Michael Jordan of his era,

What's more impressive to me is that he began his career on the premise that he was going to be the Michael Jordan of his era. He pulled through ! :eek: :eek:

As far as I'm concerned, LeBron has 100% lived up to the hype at this stage in his career - anything from here on out is just some history-shattering gravy.

And the Cavaliers are helping out his legacy immensely right now. Easily the most ridiculed & despised franchise in the NBA since LeBron left. All those ineffective seasons with number one picks... delicious irony.

Lebron's storyline is just... so... biblical. Like Jordan's was.

nothing like.................
jordan work by himself,lebron needs team up :no:

[Paul George 24]

60's = russell era
70's = kareem era
80's = magic era
90's = jordan era
00's = shaq era
10's = lebron era

i'd say these guys were considered the best over their decades

some other guys were close in their respective eras.. like wilt to russ, or dr j to kareem. or bird to magic.. or duncan to kobe.. but overall dominance of their era individually, rings, respect wise.. those guys owned their eras

lebron isnt a lock yet though. he only has 2 titles still... and theres still 6 more years in the decade left

and anyone who wants to argue kobe

he went to 7 finals out of the decade for god sake...

fixed

[NumberSix]

nothing like.................
jordan work by himself,lebron needs team up :no:
Jordan didn't play on a team? Was he not a Bulls player?:confusedshrug:

[Collie]

He's saying that the guy is the MJ aka the best player of THIS ERA. He's correct. Doesn't say anything else otherwise.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

60's = russell era
70's = kareem era
80's = magic era
90's = jordan era
00's = kobe era
10's = lebron era

i'd say these guys were considered the best over their decades

some other guys were close in their respective eras.. like wilt to russ, or dr j to kareem. or bird to magic.. or duncan to kobe.. but overall dominance of their era individually, rings, respect wise.. those guys owned their eras

lebron isnt a lock yet though. he only has 2 titles still... and theres still 6 more years in the decade left

and anyone who wants to argue kobe

he went to 7 finals out of the decade for god sake...
Kobe era:roll: :roll: :roll:
nice joke:yaohappy: :yaohappy:

[Milbuck]

He's about as close to this era's MJ as you can get. The only thing is that there's another guy out there who can match his level on a good day. Durant has yet to show it consistently in the playoffs, but he has another gear to go to that can match Lebron. That was never the case with prime MJ.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

He's about as close to this era's MJ as you can get. The only thing is that there's another guy out there who can match his level on a good day. Durant has yet to show it consistently in the playoffs, but he has another gear to go to that can match Lebron. That was never the case with prime MJ.
what a joke.
durant needs to be on absolute fire with his Jumper to match LeBrons impact. Durant was exposed this post season as one dimensional.
Hakeem was closer to Jordan than Durant to Bron and so was Barkley:coleman:

[Paul George 24]

Jordan didn't play on a team? Was he not a Bulls player?:confusedshrug:

he didn't give up his own team :banana:

[sportjames23]

Frank smokin' that stuff.

When did the real Michael Jordan lose badly in his first two Finals or have to collude with two other stars?

The Michael Jordan of this era. GTFOH :oldlol:

[sd3035]

Jordan was the only one with more ref help and a more stacked team than Bran


MJ = first manufactured ESPN star pimped out by the league

[JUDGE WITNESS]

how disrespectful. lebron is better in every aspect of the game

[NumberSix]

he didn't give up his own team :banana:
Didn't he quit the bulls twice? :confusedshrug:

[#1SportsFan86]

I feel bad for the Thunder or Spurs now because there's NO WAY the NBA is going to let them win, the NBA has been searching for another Jordan since Jordan retired back in 1998.

[Dragonyeuw]

He's about as close to this era's MJ as you can get. The only thing is that there's another guy out there who can match his level on a good day. Durant has yet to show it consistently in the playoffs, but he has another gear to go to that can match Lebron. That was never the case with prime MJ.

IMHO there were players who, on their best nights, could match MJ. There were Philly-Chicago games in the late 80s/ early 90s where I'd swear Barkley was the most impactful player on the floor. Magic was arguably as impactful, in his own way of course( not the dominant scorer type, but more in a 'control the flow of the game' way) in the late 80's. Same with Hakeem mid 90s, Malone etc.

What separated Jordan, and what separates Lebron, is the night in, night out consistency. And on that note, what separates Jordan from Lebron overall is playoff performance, especially as the stakes raise. Jordan had the rep of getting better when things were at their most crucial, Lebron has had too many WTF playoff moments that have called him into question. MJ, for example, in his prime would have never had a 7 point game, even with foul trouble, or even if his jumper was off that day. He'd have found a way to make a difference, and therein lies the distinction between the two. Lebron at his best is capable of matching, or close to it, Jordan's level of dominance/impact but the right defensive philosophy( and few teams have it or the personnel) can slow down Lebron and then he just becomes invisible or woefully subpar relative to his ability aka 2011 finals and 2013 finals through 6 games.

[ArbitraryWater]

Is Durant closer to LeBron than Hakeem was to Jordan?

Hakeem?
Barkley was the 2nd best player during the 1st three-peat
Malone was the 2nd best player during the 2nd three-peat.

[Roundball_Rock]

You can call the Heat the Bulls of our era, but these Pacers are several tiers below the 90's Pacers that gave the Bulls hell for a while.

:biggums:

Other then 98' when were the Pacers ever relevant to the Bulls title runs? What kind of competition were the "great" Pacers anyway? Even during their heyday during the 90's they were losing in the ECF (Knicks twice, Magic, Bulls) or ECSF every year. Only in 2000 did they finally reach the Finals.


60's = russell era
70's = kareem era
80's = magic era
90's = jordan era
00's = kobe era
10's = lebron era

That is a decent list. I would break it down a bit further to calling the first half of the 80's Bird's era and the second half Magic's and the early 2000's Shaq's era and the late 2000's Kobe's.


He also said the Heat are the Bulls of this era...pff

They are--even in terms of construction. They have superstars at SG and SF, an very good player at PF and several other solid role players, including a sharpshooting guard (Allen=Paxson, Armstrong, Kerr) while having a big hole at C.


jordan work by himself

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mjl.gif


He's about as close to this era's MJ as you can get. The only thing is that there's another guy out there who can match his level on a good day. Durant has yet to show it consistently in the playoffs, but he has another gear to go to that can match Lebron. That was never the case with prime MJ.

Interesting post. Lebron has had, at least in recent years, a direct #2 "competitor." Jordan never had that. The second best player in the league rotated from Magic, Drexler, Barkley, Hakeem, Malone, and Shaq during his title runs (there were even some, i.e. Sports Illustrated and Bob Ryan, who suggested the second best player in the league was actually his teammate). That said, I think Lebron has shown to be a level above Durant in the same way MJ was above all those players (he was a cut above 90's Shaq, although peak 2000's Shaq compares well to any other player in history).


MJ, for example, in his prime would have never had a 7 point game, even with foul trouble, or even if his jumper was off that day.

True--but that to a large extent is because Jordan would never limit himself to 10 shots even if his jumper was off (i.e. 3 for 18 in a crucial Game 3 of the 93' ECF with the Bulls down 0-2 in the series).


What we see here is that even at Jordan's worst, he still managed to score 22 points. But look at those shot totals.

19. 19. 26. 28. 27.

When Jordan didn't have it going, that didn't stop him from shooting the ball. In fact, Jordan averaged 26.4 field goal attempts per game in the Finals. That's an incredible figure by an incredible player. And James? He has shot more than 26 times in a game just once in this entire playoffs. James is averaging 14 field goal attempts in this Finals. You know what Jordan's career-low field goal attempts were in a Finals game? Fourteen -- that's his lowest.


There is no denying that James stunk up the joint in Game 4 when he shot just 3-for-11. But the real reason Jordan would have never scored just eight points in a Finals game is because he would have never taken just 11 shots from the floor like James did.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/8681/would-michael-jordan-have-done-that


Besides, Lebron is a hybrid of Magic and Jordan so comparing Lebron strictly in scoring terms is not a good comparison. Lebron has a role as the primary playmaker on the team that Jordan did not have during the 90's.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Frank smokin' that stuff.

When did the real Michael Jordan lose badly in his first two Finals or have to collude with two other stars?

The Michael Jordan of this era. GTFOH :oldlol:
That was because at the age Lebron got to the finals MJ was still figuring out how to win a playoff series.
you know, before Pippen came along:roll: :roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

60's = russell era
70's = kareem era
80's = magic era
90's = jordan era
00's = kobe era
10's = lebron era

i'd say these guys were considered the best over their decades

some other guys were close in their respective eras.. like wilt to russ, or dr j to kareem. or bird to magic.. or duncan to kobe.. but overall dominance of their era individually, rings, respect wise.. those guys owned their eras

lebron isnt a lock yet though. he only has 2 titles still... and theres still 6 more years in the decade left

and anyone who wants to argue kobe

he went to 7 finals out of the decade for god sake...

I'm not sure eras work like that. I don't think an era has to be the 90's or the 00's...they can be more specific than that in my opinion.

For example, clearly it was the MJ era from like 91 through 98...probably even 89 through 98 even though the badboys won a couple...MJ was the best player and everyone knew he had taken over for Bird/Magic.

99 through 07...I would list that as the Duncan/Shaq era. With giving a nod to Kobe as a great player, but he wasn't on their level nor did he dominate like they did.

Duncan won in 99 as the best player
Shaq won in 00 through 02 as the best player
Duncan won in 03 as the best player
Duncan won in 05 as the best player
Shaq won in 06 as still a first team all nba type player
Duncan won in 07 as the best player

That is utter dominance from those two.

Kobe wasn't an elite player until 01. Missed the playoffs in 05...and didn't get out of the first round in 06 and 07.


The harsh truth is that there was no "Kobe era" in NBA history.

Duncan/Shaq dominated the 9 years immediately after Jordan left...and then Lebron came into his own as a player in 09.

Kobe and his Lakers from 08 through 10 were more like the Bad Boys pistons...a great 2 to 3 year run, but not deserving of an era...especially with the next great player hitting his prime/peak and winning back to back MVP's

Lebron is already in year 6 now of it being his time.

NBA history will remember the last 25 years or so in terms of "era" as;

80-88 Magic/Bird
91-98 MJ
99-07 Shaq/Duncan
09-?? Lebron


With the Bad Boys Pistons, Hakeem, and Kobe sprinkled in as great runs, but not deserving of the "era" label.

[dazzer87]

60's = russell era
70's = kareem era
80's = magic era
90's = jordan era
00's = kobe era
10's = lebron era

i'd say these guys were considered the best over their decades

some other guys were close in their respective eras.. like wilt to russ, or dr j to kareem. or bird to magic.. or duncan to kobe.. but overall dominance of their era individually, rings, respect wise.. those guys owned their eras

lebron isnt a lock yet though. he only has 2 titles still... and theres still 6 more years in the decade left

and anyone who wants to argue kobe

he went to 7 finals out of the decade for god sake...
Kobe era?????? Kome stans....:facepalm

[DMV2]

LeBron James is the LeBron James of the LeBron James era(2007-present).

[jimmy77x]

I feel bad for the Thunder or Spurs now because there's NO WAY the NBA is going to let them win, the NBA has been searching for another Jordan since Jordan retired back in 1998.

This, NB4 another rigged boring finals with the heat/lehgh getting away with and getting every call, no point in watching a scripted 3 peat that only Lecollusion dickriders will enjoy.

[ArbitraryWater]

can slow down Lebron and then he just becomes invisible or woefully subpar relative to his ability aka 2011 finals and 2013 finals through 6 games.

What a huge myth :facepalm

2013 Finals:

Game 1: 18/18/10 on 44% with the usual great defense in a Loss

Triple Double, great all around game.

Game 2: 17/8/7 on 41% with the usual great defense in a Win.

Shot the ball poorly, but again, LeBron impacts the game from all levels... And we were just talking about that "Impact" thing with Durant, who this 2014 postseason, is having another case of numbers overrating his true impact. At the same time, LeBron just DOMINATES, and takes CONTROL of the game HIMSELF.

A MONSTER block on Splitter, an Assist to a 3 Pointer, Steal on Defense, Dunk...

You know what that was? One sequence in the 4th Quarter that ended the entire game. Filled the statsheet in a minute. Phenomenal defense, a beautiful unselfish assist, hands in the passing lanes. Can't ask for more. Subbed out early, otherwise he could have gone for 30 points, at the very least 20.

Game 3: 15/11/5 on 33% in a Loss.

Horrible game, no way around it.

Game 4: 33/11/4 on 60% with the usual great defense in a Win.

Alongside of D-Wade, he took over. Great game.

Game 5: 25/6/8 on 36%... in a Loss.

Poor scoring game, somewhat made up for it by distributing points by PLAYMAKING/ASSISTING. Still, average.

Game 6: 32/10/11 on 42% with fantastic defense in a Win.

LeBron turned around his entire game in the 4th quarter. On the edge of being eliminated, he went balls out and scored 16 4th quarter points, got the game into OT with a Ray Allen 3 Pointer that will go into History, assisted and scored some more, and got the close W. Great all around and clutch game.

Game 7: 37/12/4 with fantastic defense in a Win.

Tying the Record for most Points ever scored in a Finals Game 7.
Hit 5 3's and the Championship Winning/Sealing Shot.
Arguably the Greatest Finals Game 7 ever.

Championship/Finals MVP with Averages of 25/11/7 on 45% and DPOTY like Defense.

Alone from the Statistics it's a great Series, now try to factor in the Defense, where he held the opponent's best player to 6-23 in Game 6 and 3-12 in Game 7...

Great Series. Not as good as 2012, but still great.

[Mr Feeny]

What a huge myth :facepalm

2013 Finals:

Game 1: 18/18/10 on 44% with the usual great defense in a Loss

Triple Double, great all around game.

Game 2: 17/8/7 on 41% with the usual great defense in a Win.

Shot the ball poorly, but again, LeBron impacts the game from all levels... And we were just talking about that "Impact" thing with Durant, who this 2014 postseason, is having another case of numbers overrating his true impact. At the same time, LeBron just DOMINATES, and takes CONTROL of the game HIMSELF.

A MONSTER block on Splitter, an Assist to a 3 Pointer, Steal on Defense, Dunk...

You know what that was? One sequence in the 4th Quarter that ended the entire game. Filled the statsheet in a minute. Phenomenal defense, a beautiful unselfish assist, hands in the passing lanes. Can't ask for more. Subbed out early, otherwise he could have gone for 30 points, at the very least 20.

Game 3: 15/11/5 on 33% in a Loss.

Horrible game, no way around it.

Game 4: 33/11/4 on 60% with the usual great defense in a Win.

Alongside of D-Wade, he took over. Great game.

Game 5: 25/6/8 on 36%... in a Loss.

Poor scoring game, somewhat made up for it by distributing points by PLAYMAKING/ASSISTING. Still, average.

Game 6: 32/10/11 on 42% with fantastic defense in a Win.

LeBron turned around his entire game in the 4th quarter. On the edge of being eliminated, he went balls out and scored 16 4th quarter points, got the game into OT with a Ray Allen 3 Pointer that will go into History, assisted and scored some more, and got the close W. Great all around and clutch game.

Game 7: 37/12/4 with fantastic defense in a Win.

Tying the Record for most Points ever scored in a Finals Game 7.
Hit 5 3's and the Championship Winning/Sealing Shot.
Arguably the Greatest Finals Game 7 ever.

Championship/Finals MVP with Averages of 25/11/7 on 45% and DPOTY like Defense.

Alone from the Statistics it's a great Series, now try to factor in the Defense, where he held the opponent's best player to 6-23 in Game 6 and 3-12 in Game 7...

Great Series. Not as good as 2012, but still great.

Well put by this ph@ggot:applause:

[DMAVS41]

What a huge myth :facepalm

2013 Finals:

Game 1: 18/18/10 on 44% with the usual great defense in a Loss

Triple Double, great all around game.

Game 2: 17/8/7 on 41% with the usual great defense in a Win.

Shot the ball poorly, but again, LeBron impacts the game from all levels... And we were just talking about that "Impact" thing with Durant, who this 2014 postseason, is having another case of numbers overrating his true impact. At the same time, LeBron just DOMINATES, and takes CONTROL of the game HIMSELF.

A MONSTER block on Splitter, an Assist to a 3 Pointer, Steal on Defense, Dunk...

You know what that was? One sequence in the 4th Quarter that ended the entire game. Filled the statsheet in a minute. Phenomenal defense, a beautiful unselfish assist, hands in the passing lanes. Can't ask for more. Subbed out early, otherwise he could have gone for 30 points, at the very least 20.

Game 3: 15/11/5 on 33% in a Loss.

Horrible game, no way around it.

Game 4: 33/11/4 on 60% with the usual great defense in a Win.

Alongside of D-Wade, he took over. Great game.

Game 5: 25/6/8 on 36%... in a Loss.

Poor scoring game, somewhat made up for it by distributing points by PLAYMAKING/ASSISTING. Still, average.

Game 6: 32/10/11 on 42% with fantastic defense in a Win.

LeBron turned around his entire game in the 4th quarter. On the edge of being eliminated, he went balls out and scored 16 4th quarter points, got the game into OT with a Ray Allen 3 Pointer that will go into History, assisted and scored some more, and got the close W. Great all around and clutch game.

Game 7: 37/12/4 with fantastic defense in a Win.

Tying the Record for most Points ever scored in a Finals Game 7.
Hit 5 3's and the Championship Winning/Sealing Shot.
Arguably the Greatest Finals Game 7 ever.

Championship/Finals MVP with Averages of 25/11/7 on 45% and DPOTY like Defense.

Alone from the Statistics it's a great Series, now try to factor in the Defense, where he held the opponent's best player to 6-23 in Game 6 and 3-12 in Game 7...

Great Series. Not as good as 2012, but still great.

He said through 6 games...that was his point. Obviously Lebron's great comeback in game 6 and historically good game 7 trump anything else that happened overall, but his play through the first 5.75 or 6 games was not nearly as good as you are talking about.

He was at 48% TS going into the 4th qtr of game 6. He had truly terrible clutch plays late in that game that he would still be getting raped for if the Spurs didn't choke or Allen didn't make that 3.

Lebron was scoring like 4 more points per game on 5 to 6 percent worse TS in the 13 finals through 5.75 games than he did in 11.

If Ray Allen misses that shot...we are looking at a Lebron that couldn't average over 23 ppg or whatever it was and was shooting sub 50% TS...while collapsing in the final moments of the biggest game of the year.

Lebron had a great 4th qtr comeback in game 6 and an all time great game 7. The rest of the series was very much similar to the Mavs series in 11...big difference this time was that the Spurs weren't the caliber of team the Mavs were and couldn't stomp the life out of Lebron.

He admitted it himself...he said he and his team got lucky. Which is exactly what happened.

[Mr Feeny]

Dmavs. Good points but why would we worry about Lebron's numbers up to game 6 if the heat won games 6 &7? Why not focus on the overall numbers in the series?

This kind of thing makes no sense. How about we just focus on Jordan's numbers through 3 games in the 93 ecf? Let's throw out game 4 when he had 54 points and his 29-14-10 in game 5.
I don't get this logic at all
Jis overall numbers were good regardless of how relatively poorly he started. We agree?

[DMAVS41]

Dmavs. Good points but why would we worry about Lebron's numbers up to game 6 if the heat won games 6 &7? Why not focus on the overall numbers in the series?

This kind of thing makes no sense. How about we just focus on Jordan's numbers through 3 games in the 93 ecf? Let's throw out game 4 when he had 54 points and his 29-14-10 in game 5.
I don't get this logic at all
Jis overall numbers were good regardless of how relatively poorly he started. We agree?

From an overall perspective we agree...

However, when comparing individual players...we have to use context. And the truth is that Lebron got lucky he had a good enough team to get lucky.

It's the same thing with Durant in these playoffs. Take the Memphis series in which he won game 4...well, we have to mention that a win like that has only happened like 19 times in the last 30 years for a superstar in the playoffs...and Durant has had it happen twice in these playoffs alone.

So the Thunder winning that game wasn't because of Durant at all...it is a commentary on how loaded and good his help really is.


All I'm saying is that we have to mention that. Lebron plays like he did in game 6 until the 4th qtr against a team like the 11 Mavs or 08 Celtics...and there is no comeback...it's not even remotely possible.

So you give props to Lebron for what he did...but you also put it into perspective and don't go overboard like Lebron played some great series because of his game 7. Nah...like Lebron said...he and his team got straight up lucky.

[Marlo_Stanfield]

Dmavs such a subtle LEBron hater lmfao

[Dragonyeuw]

What a huge myth :facepalm

2013 Finals:

Game 1: 18/18/10 on 44% with the usual great defense in a Loss



Game 2: 17/8/7 on 41% with the usual great defense in a Win.



Game 3: 15/11/5 on 33% in a Loss.

Horrible game, no way around it.

Game 4: 33/11/4 on 60% with the usual great defense in a Win.

Alongside of D-Wade, he took over. Great game.

Game 5: 25/6/8 on 36%... in a Loss.

Poor scoring game, somewhat made up for it by distributing points by PLAYMAKING/ASSISTING. Still, average.

Game 6: 32/10/11 on 42% with fantastic defense in a Win.


Game 7: 37/12/4 with fantastic defense in a Win.

.

Therein lies the issue with posting stats as an end-all,be-all measure of dominance/ impact. Lebron similarly posted triple doubles in the 2010 playoffs against Boston and 2011 finals and in each instance, his impact on the game actually WATCHING the game and not simply looking at the box score, was trivial. By any measure, Lebron had an epic 2013 regular season and by those standards, the 2013 finals did not showcase the 'raising the level of play' ability I spoke to. Just those stats alone above, if we're debating based strictly on that, shows inconsistent play from one game to the next and watching the game, he was hardly imposing his will in the game. For examples of literally grabbing the opponent by the throat in high stakes situations, look at the 48 point game against Detroit in 2007, or the 45/15 effort against Boston in 2012. He's done it, so he's capable.

The problem is that, he can reach incredibly high levels of play and then suddenly crash for inexplicable reasons( his 2011 playoff effort was epic, then crashed to roleplayer status against Dallas for example). And in that occasion( and even the 2010 playoffs against Boston), he looked more disengaged from the relevance of the moment than anything his opponent was doing. His 2013 finals by his own standards were subpar enough to even get called out for being 'shutdown' by the likes of Boris Diaw, even looking at statlines that would appear 'dominant' looking at them without the context of actually watching the games.

[Bandito]

Don't know what people are so mad. From all the players that were compared to MJ, Lebron and Kobe were the closest.

[Mr Feeny]

From an overall perspective we agree...

However, when comparing individual players...we have to use context. And the truth is that Lebron got lucky he had a good enough team to get lucky.

It's the same thing with Durant in these playoffs. Take the Memphis series in which he won game 4...well, we have to mention that a win like that has only happened like 19 times in the last 30 years for a superstar in the playoffs...and Durant has had it happen twice in these playoffs alone.

So the Thunder winning that game wasn't because of Durant at all...it is a commentary on how loaded and good his help really is.


All I'm saying is that we have to mention that. Lebron plays like he did in game 6 until the 4th qtr against a team like the 11 Mavs or 08 Celtics...and there is no comeback...it's not even remotely possible.

So you give props to Lebron for what he did...but you also put it into perspective and don't go overboard like Lebron played some great series because of his game 7. Nah...like Lebron said...he and his team got straight up lucky.

That's true but we can make the same points about any great team. Horry saved Shaq and Kobe's butts in game 4 of the 2002 WCF, hittimg a game winning 3 without which they would have found themselves down 3-1.
And that was before thr rigging in game 6.
Fisher's shot is luck exemplified.

We could argur that MJ had a great enough team to overcome some of his disasters eg. 3-18 shooting in game 3 of the 93 ecf, which had the Bulls lost they would've been in a 3-0 hole.

In the 1993 finals game 6, Dan Marleje missing a wide open 5 footer with a 4 point lead in the final 58 seconds could be considered a lucky scnerio.
I agree with you; it's just a littlr disingenuous to point out thr luck involved with LeBron's performance as if the same isn't true of any other star.

[Dragonyeuw]

He said through 6 games...that was his point. Obviously Lebron's great comeback in game 6 and historically good game 7 trump anything else that happened overall, but his play through the first 5.75 or 6 games was not nearly as good as you are talking about.

.

Exactly this.

[DMAVS41]

That's true but we can make the same points about any great team. Horry saved Shaq and Kobe's butts in game 4 of the 2002 WCF, hittimg a game winning 3 without which they would have found themselves down 3-1.
And that was before thr rigging in game 6.
Fisher's shot is luck exemplified.

We could argur that MJ had a great enough team to overcome some of his disasters eg. 3-18 shooting in game 3 of the 93 ecf, which had the Bulls lost they would've been in a 3-0 hole.

In the 1993 finals game 6, Dan Marleje missing a wide open 5 footer with a 4 point lead in the final 58 seconds could be considered a lucky scnerio.
I agree with you; it's just a littlr disingenuous to point out thr luck involved with LeBron's performance as if the same isn't true of any other star.

Absolutely. It's not just a Lebron specific thing.

[Mr Feeny]

Exactly this.
Again, why does this matter?

Kobe's stats after game 2 of the 2004 finals are aysmal. Lets cherry pick. This is fun (and utterly pointless)

[Dragonyeuw]

That's true but we can make the same points about any great team. Horry saved Shaq and Kobe's butts in game 4 of the 2002 WCF, hittimg a game winning 3 without which they would have found themselves down 3-1.
And that was before thr rigging in game 6.
Fisher's shot is luck exemplified.

We could argur that MJ had a great enough team to overcome some of his disasters eg. 3-18 shooting in game 3 of the 93 ecf, which had the Bulls lost they would've been in a 3-0 hole.

r.
Maybe I've drank too much in the last 20 years and killed some brain cells, didnt Jordan have a 54 point game 3 in 93 ecfs?

Otherwise, you're correct that a lucky bounce here and there isn't a Lebron specific thing but answer this: can you point to any playoff series where the Bulls lost BECAUSE of MJ? Because if Lebron had played to half of his ability in 2011, the Heat likely win that series. I mean, you simply can't excuse getting outplayed in clutch situations by the likes of Jason Terry when you're a player of Lebron's ability.

[Dragonyeuw]

Again, why does this matter?

Kobe's stats after game 2 of the 2004 finals are aysmal. Lets cherry pick. This is fun (and utterly pointless)

Its matters in the context of the point I was making. Lebron has had multiple playoff moments where his level of play sharply drops off for who knows what reason, and its not because of anything the other team was doing specifically. Hell, the 2011 Bulls were a better defensive team than the 2013 Spurs( and the 2011 Mavs) and look at the difference in his performance. Its not so much about his stats being subpar and more about how he just looked disengaged in the most crucial of moments. Jordan had his share of 'shit' games in the playoffs, there's no argument. But noone could ever question his effort, you never got the feeling that he didn't leave it all out there on the floor regardless of the final statline.

[Roundball_Rock]

But noone could ever question his effort, you never got the feeling that he didn't leave it all out there on the floor regardless of the final statline.

Game 5 of the 1989 ECF (with the series tied 2-2) after Collins asked him to start passing the ball...It has been forgotten just as Lebron's Game 5 in 2010 in the ECSF will be years from now.

[Dragonyeuw]

Game 5 of the 1989 ECF (with the series tied 2-2) after Collins asked him to start passing the ball...It has been forgotten just as Lebron's Game 5 in 2010 in the ECSF will be years from now.

So pretty much a reaction to his coach's strategy, and not because he appeared disengaged on-court for reasons we still dont know about years later, like Lebron's 2011 finals. Again, how many series were lost because Jordan failed to show up or played at a role-playing level? Im struggling to recall....

[Mr Feeny]

Maybe I've drank too much in the last 20 years and killed some brain cells, didnt Jordan have a 54 point game 3 in 93 ecfs?

Otherwise, you're correct that a lucky bounce here and there isn't a Lebron specific thing but answer this: can you point to any playoff series where the Bulls lost BECAUSE of MJ? Because if Lebron had played to half of his ability in 2011, the Heat likely win that series. I mean, you simply can't excuse getting outplayed in clutch situations by the likes of Jason Terry when you're a player of Lebron's ability.

No, I'm with you. I wouldn't say that the Bulls ever lost a series because of Jordan but this isn't the point we are discussing. We were talking about luck and its prevalence in championship runs.

Jordan had a 54 point in game 4 where he torched Starks from the perimeter. I was talking about the previous game - his 3/18 game 3 showing which would have left the Bulls in a virtually unassailable 3-0 deficit if not for his teammates stepping up. When DMAVS mentioned LeBron having the "luck" to have a good enough team to overcome LeBron's struggles, I just mentioned a parallel example.

In 2011 he struggled, sure. Let's not forget Kobe struggling down the stretch in games 1 and 3. He almost single handedly cost the Lakers the game. In the game 4 elimination game, he was outscored 29-2 from the 8 minute mark of the 1st quarter till Carlisle pulled Terry out of the game after it was out of reach. Same player. Same capitulation. I just want us all to be consistent in criticism. That's all.

[Dragonyeuw]

No, I'm with you. I wouldn't say that the Bulls ever lost a series because of Jordan but this isn't the point we are discussing. We were talking about luck and its prevalence in championship runs.

Jordan had a 54 point in game 4 where he torched Starks from the perimeter. I was talking about the previous game - his 3/18 game 3 showing which would have left the Bulls in a virtually unassailable 3-0 deficit if not for his teammates stepping up. When DMAVS mentioned LeBron having the "luck" to have a good enough team to overcome LeBron's struggles, I just mentioned a parallel example.

In 2011 he struggled, sure. Let's not forget Kobe struggling down the stretch in games 1 and 3. He almost single handedly cost the Lakers the game. In the game 4 elimination game, he was outscored 29-2 from the 8 minute mark of the 1st quarter till Carlisle pulled Terry out of the game after it was out of reach. Same player. Same capitulation. I just want us all to be consistent in criticism. That's all.

Yeah but I wasn't an active participant in this 'luck of the draw' argument for the most part. My main point has been about the kind of effort displayed on-court and imposing your will on the game in certain high stakes scenarios, even if having an 'off game' shooting the ball or whatever. Certainly in terms of luck, lucky bounces have gone the right way for many stars, so Im not vilifying Lebron there.

As for Kobe's play in those 2004 finals, it was definitely shitty but not due to lack of effort, more selfishness/low bball IQ etc etc. Lebron simply looked disinterested on a few very notable occasions for inexplicable reasons. The only reason its being brought up is because of his status as an all-timer GOAT level candidate, so maybe it comes off as nitpicking but its more that Lebron has set such a high standard of play, that not showing up in certain occasions or appearing disengaged oncourt( not talking about just having a 'bad' game, it happens) is going to come under heavy scrutiny. Remember the mysterious 'elbow' injury against the Celtics in 2010? Something that wasn't mentioned before or after that series. His play was so epic that year that it only brought his subpar efforts against Boston into question. And remember, Jordan in that 1993 ecfs was under heavy scrutiny( and rightfully so) for spending too much time in atlantic city casinos during that series and being inadequately prepared, leading to 3-18 performances.

[Mr Feeny]

Yeah but I wasn't an active participant in this 'luck of the draw' argument for the most part. My main point has been about the kind of effort displayed on-court and imposing your will on the game in certain high stakes scenarios, even if having an 'off game' shooting the ball or whatever. Certainly in terms of luck, lucky bounces have gone the right way for many stars, so Im not vilifying Lebron there.

As for Kobe's play in those 2004 finals, it was definitely shitty but not due to lack of effort, more selfishness/low bball IQ etc etc. Lebron simply looked disintered on a few very notable occasions for inexplicable reasons. The only reason its being brought up is because of his status as an all-timer GOAT level candidate, so maybe it comes off as nitpicking but its more that an issue that Lebron has set such a high standard of play, that not showing up in certain occassions or appearing disengaged oncourt( not talking about just having a 'bad' game, it happens) is going to come under heavy scrutiny. Remember the mysterious 'elbow' injury against the Celtics in 2010? Something that wasn't mentioned before or after that series. His play was so epic that year that it only brought his subpar efforts against Boston into question.

I understand that but again, this is all subjective isn't it?
Kobe Bryant completely and conspicuously disappearing in the second half of a game 7 against the Suns is much more notable than any supposedly half-arsed performance by LeBron in 2010 or 2011. I don't understand how someone who gets 27 points, 19 rebounds and 10 assists in an elimination is accused of lacking effort while a 1 point second half in a game 7 by another isn't even brought up. It's asinine. Did he struggle? Yes. Absolutely. But how can we gauge effort? I don't see an objective way of doing that. That's all.

If you read Phil Jackson's book "The Last Season", he openly talks about Kobe putting no effort in games before which he had been criticized for not passing. A game against Sacramento in 2004 for example after which his teammates were furious with him. The Suns is another example. If anyone were to be criticized for a lack of effort it is the guy who's effort is being directly called out by his coach, in a public forum.

[NumberSix]

Dmavs such a subtle LEBron hater lmfao
It's not that subtle. I've been saying for a long time that he's incapable of being objective about LeBron.

[guy]

There's no Michael Jordan or 90s Bulls in this league i.e. someone with such an unbeatable stranglehold on the league. Lebron just had the worst chokejob in NBA history three years ago, and he was close as you can get to losing a Finals last year. Maybe if he wins more, sure, but thats not happened yet. With that said, if anyone is its obviously him.

[truhooper]

The harsh truth is that there was no "Kobe era" in NBA history.

NBA history will remember the last 25 years or so in terms of "era" as;

80-88 Magic/Bird
91-98 MJ
99-07 Shaq/Duncan
09-?? Lebron

:cheers:

[GimmeThat]

in terms of the differences between the best player and the rest of the league. he is "the michael jordan of this era"

there are valid points in not having a "Kobe era"
it was pretty much a 7-9 years span of player B > Kobe
then... nope.

[Dragonyeuw]

I understand that but again, this is all subjective isn't it?
Kobe Bryant completely and conspicuously disappearing in the second half of a game 7 against the Suns is much more notable than any supposedly half-arsed performance by LeBron in 2010 or 2011. I don't understand how someone who gets 27 points, 19 rebounds and 10 assists in an elimination is accused of lacking effort while a 1 point second half in a game 7 by another isn't even brought up. It's asinine. Did he struggle? Yes. Absolutely. But how can we gauge effort? I don't see an objective way of doing that. That's all.

.

You can't 'gauge' effort, its not something that can be objectively measured on a statline, same as leadership and other intangibles. Its all really about the 'eye-test' which, yes, is subjective but I think if you watch a player long enough, you can see their tendencies. You can separate a bad game based on just having a 'bad' game, and a bad game on the effort being there( or not), half-assing it or whatever term you want to use.

With respects to Kobe's game 7, that was equally inexcusable. Im not bringing it up because the discussion isn't about Kobe, its about Lebron. Also, at no point have I justified or defended Kobe in this thread so there's not much point in bringing him up except to distract from the main point.If we're going to bring others into the picture we'll be here all day. Now, if you want to create a thread based on Kobes game 7, by all means do so and we can spend the day ripping apart his performance. But, he has endured his share of criticism( rightfully so) for that 'effort'.

[Cold soul]

As in (2010) era sure.

[Mr Feeny]

You can't 'gauge' effort, its not something that can be objectively measured on a statline, same as leadership and other intangibles. Its all really about the 'eye-test' which, yes, is subjective but I think if you watch a player long enough, you can see their tendencies. You can separate a bad game based on just having a 'bad' game, and a bad game on the effort being there( or not), half-assing it or whatever term you want to use.

With respects to Kobe's game 7, that was equally inexcusable. Im not bringing it up because the discussion isn't about Kobe, its about Lebron. Also, at no point have I justified or defended Kobe in this thread so there's not much point in bringing him up except to distract from the main point.If we're going to bring others into the picture we'll be here all day. Now, if you want to create a thread based on Kobes game 7, by all means do so and we can spend the day ripping apart his performance. But, he has endured his share of criticism( rightfully so) for that 'effort'.


As for Kobe's play in those 2004 finals, it was definitely shitty but not due to lack of effort, more selfishness/low bball IQ etc etc. Lebron simply looked disinterested on a few very notable occasions for inexplicable reasons.

I just pointed out that Kobe Bryant's own coach called him out for his lack of effort which is as close we as we can get to concrete evidence that someone mailed it in, whereas you're criticizing Lebron for failing, by your own admission, the "eye tesy" whatever that is.

[Solefade]

he also called Lebron "Superman" :lol

[Dragonyeuw]

I just pointed out that Kobe Bryant's own coach called him out for his lack of effort which is as close we as we can get to concrete evidence that someone mailed it in, whereas you're criticizing Lebron for failing, by your own admission, the "eye tesy" whatever that is.

Lebron's failures are his and his alone, just like Kobe's or anyone else, and there's really not much point in bringing up another player other than distraction. Ive already said that Kobe has his share of questionable moments, but this is not a Kobe thread which is why I didn't mention him previously. Bringing players xyz into the fray is simply going to extend the argument into endless back and forth, and like I said Kobe's own failures aren't relevant to a discussion about Lebron.

As for the eye test, Im sure you know what it is. Surely when watching the games, simply looking beyond stats, you can 'see' which team or player is better than their opponent? Surely when you watch someone 80 times a year and you can 'see' the efforts they produce oncourt, and then 'see' times when the effort is simply not there on a given night? I mean hell, we all have days at work where we don't give 100% effort, a basketball player isnt exempt from that. Is it my opinion that Lebron didnt give all out effort in the 2011 finals, based off what Ive seen from him prior and since? Yes, based off what I saw, I cant measure it on a statsheet for you.

I mean we do this pretty much everyday when determining when one thing is 'better'( in our subjective opinion of course) than something else.

[Mr Feeny]

Lebron's failures are his and his alone, just like Kobe's or anyone else, and there's really not much point in bringing up another player other than distraction. Ive already said that Kobe has his share of questionable moments, but this is not a Kobe thread which is why I didn't mention him previously. Bringing players xyz into the fray is simply going to extend the argument into endless back and forth, and like I said Kobe's own failures aren't relevant to a discussion about Lebron.

As for the eye test, Im sure you know what it is. Surely when watching the games, simply looking beyond stats, you can 'see' which team or player is better than their opponent? I mean we do this pretty much everyday when determining when one thing is 'better'( in our subjective opinion of course) than something else.

There we go. It's subjective as you said. The facts are that he put up 27-19-10. If your eye test tells you that this represents a lack of effort, then we have very different eye test filters. I don't think someone should be disqualified from the goat discussion just because he fails his detractors' eye tests. That's absurd.
Espcially when he's more productive and engaged in thesr very games than some other notable stars who lay egg after egg in big games and whose effort is questioned by their coaches and by commentators. We will never agree here. And that's ok, I guess. Cheers

[GimmeThat]

I just pointed out that Kobe Bryant's own coach called him out for his lack of effort which is as close we as we can get to concrete evidence that someone mailed it in, whereas you're criticizing Lebron for failing, by your own admission, the "eye tesy" whatever that is.


I wonder what was Dan Gilbert thinking when Lebron walked off the floor on his last playoff game as a Cavs, and taking off his jersey before he entered the tunnel.


that's my "eye test"

[Mr Feeny]

I wonder what was Dan Gilbert thinking when Lebron walked off the floor on his last playoff game as a Cavs, and taking off his jersey before he entered the tunnel.


that's my "eye test"

Alrighty then. Solid irrefutable material here:applause:
Oh boy.

[mark henson 123]

http://cdn.niketalk.com/2/2f/350x700px-LL-2ff5111e_michael-jordan-laughing.gif


LeBron better than me?:basketball
are you crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dragonyeuw]

There we go. It's subjective as you said. The facts are that he put up 27-19-10. If your eye test tells you that this represents a lack of effort, then we have very different eye test filters. I don't think someone should be disqualified from the goat discussion just because he fails his detractors' eye tests. That's absurd.
Espcially when he's more productive and engaged in thesr very games than some other notable stars who lay egg after egg in big games and whose effort is questioned by their coaches and by commentators. We will never agree here. And that's ok, I guess. Cheers

Of course it is, have I said otherwise? This is becoming circular, I think we reasonably understand each other at this point regardless of our disagreement.

Also, who said Lebron was disqualified from the GOAT discussion? I've never said or even implied it, in fact I specifically said its his status as an all-time GOAT candidate that brings his moments of coming up very small under heavy scrutiny especially in this communication age. Remember 'Tragic' Johnson after the 1984 finals? Or Jordan getting bashed in the nyc media during the 93 ecfs for his subpar efforts?

Also, look at the 2011 finals again when lebron had the triple double. Productive in terms of stats? Sure. Impactful/dominant? I'd say no, and I can't imagine anyone watching the game objectively would conclude otherwise.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Nah, Lebron is more like Magic Johnson, hes a poor man's Magic.

[Mr Feeny]

Of course it is, have I said otherwise? This is becoming circular, I think we reasonably understand each other at this point regardless of our disagreement.

Also, who said Lebron was disqualified from the GOAT discussion? I've never said or even implied it, in fact I specifically said its his status as an all-time GOAT candidate that brings his moments of coming up very small under heavy scrutiny especially in this communication age. Remember 'Tragic' Johnson after the 1984 finals? Or Jordan getting bashed in the nyc media during the 93 ecfs for his subpar efforts?

Also, look at the 2011 finals again when lebron had the triple double. Productive in terms of stats? Sure. Impactful/dominant? I'd say no, and I can't imagine anyone watching the game objectively would conclude otherwise.

Fair enough.:cheers:

[9erempiree]

People's love for Lebron reminds me of this....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ewILDsxrvQ4/S9cy3BOBtRI/AAAAAAAATBU/BuVkqUs66I4/s1600/Gay-kiss2.jpg

[Straight_Ballin]

Bron is doing "the best he can" to be the MJ of his era. Has he done in his era what MJ did during his? Fvck no, but he's the best thing that some kid can hope for that never had the privledge of watching Jordan play.

Expecting ANY player to ever go 6/6 with 6 FMVP is just asking for too much. If not for the physicality of the game back then and the bad boy pistons being allowed to play the type of hard D that they did, Jordan would be 8/8 with 8 FMVP.

[guy]

Bron is doing "the best he can" to be the MJ of his era. Has he done in his era what MJ did during his? Fvck no, but he's the best thing that some kid can hope for that never had the privledge of watching Jordan play.

Expecting ANY player to ever go 6/6 with 6 FMVP is just asking for too much. If not for the physicality of the game back then and the bad boy pistons being allowed to play the type of hard D that they did, Jordan would be 8/8 with 8 FMVP.

6/6 doesn't matter. He's just hardly been the player that you feel like is going to lead his team to win it all no matter what like Jordan was. There's been way too many close calls or flat-out failures the last few years. Maybe after this year or next year.

[Straight_Ballin]

6/6 doesn't matter. He's just hardly been the player that you feel like is going to lead his team to win it all no matter what like Jordan was. There's been way too many close calls or flat-out failures the last few years. Maybe after this year or next year.

Well to be fair, Jordan had Phil Jackson.

Bron has Spo, and before that he had a potato head looking mo fvcka! :lol

[guy]

Well to be fair, Jordan had Phil Jackson.

Bron has Spo, and before that he had a potato head looking mo fvcka! :lol

Lebron having Spo really doesn't explain his putrid 2011 Finals or his incredible passiveness for the majority of last year's Finals to the point that they got that close to losing.

And if Spo continues to win alot more titles because of the stacked rosters he has, specifically having players like Lebron, he'll be looked at as one of the greatest coaches ever in 10-20 years, whether its true or not.

[KingBeasley08]

no michael jordan was the lebron of his era
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

If he goes on to win another ring, playing at a superstar level? Dont see anything wrong with that.

Like Jordan, he would have 3-peated, but also been to 4 straight finals.. An impressive feat.

[Calabis]

He is the "jordan" of his era, I don't see nothing wrong with this.

[Mr. Incredible]

People's love for Lebron reminds me of this....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ewILDsxrvQ4/S9cy3BOBtRI/AAAAAAAATBU/BuVkqUs66I4/s1600/Gay-kiss2.jpg
Ban worthy IMO.

Oh, and you're so damn mad. :lol :roll:

[SamuraiSWISH]

He is the "jordan" of his era, I don't see nothing wrong with this.
Me neither.

He's definitively the best player in the league, probably on both sides of the ball as well. Just like MJ in his prime. He now has earned the respect from his peers, as they all freely acknowledge he's the best in the game.

He's the best player I've seen since MJ. Does anyone have a link to the video of Vogel calling Bron the MJ of this era, and Superman? Thanks.

:pimp:

[Calabis]

Me neither.

He's definitively the best player in the league, probably on both sides of the ball as well. Just like MJ in his prime. He now has earned the respect from his peers, as they all freely acknowledge he's the best in the game.

He's the best player I've seen since MJ. Does anyone have a link to the video of Vogel calling Bron the MJ of this era, and Superman? Thanks.

:pimp:

:applause:

[Mr Feeny]

People's love for Lebron reminds me of this....

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ewILDsxrvQ4/S9cy3BOBtRI/AAAAAAAATBU/BuVkqUs66I4/s1600/Gay-kiss2.jpg

Why do you have pictures of gay sex on your laptop?

[ILLsmak]

And said "the Heat the Bulls of this era"..

which is absolutely true so from the time they formed, they have dominated. When they stop winning, we can actively judge them, but it's hard to bet against them because they just keep winning.

-Smak

[Vancouver-Grizz]

I agree with Vogel....Hate to admit it but LeBron is close to unstoppable as it comes.