Top 10 players in the League

[russwest0]

Durant
LeBron
Wade
Westbrook
Davis
Kobe
Parker
Curry
Dirk
Aldridge

Only 2 players fom the East and they are on the same team? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

[JohnFreeman]

OKC, no excuses.

[Cocaine80s]

LeBron
Westbrook
Durant
CP3
Blake
Curry
Wade
Dwight
Parker
Harden



Look out for Lavine next season though

[J Shuttlesworth]

http://i.imgur.com/ySAyLr7.png


Out of all the players who play high minutes, Lebron is the best. Westbrook and Durant are 2-3 and basically equal in scoring. Westbrook is a better overall player than KD because of his impact on defense and better assist numbers.

1. LBJ
2. Westbrook
3. Durant

[LoneyROY7]

Atrocious list, as expected from the OP.

[Crimsonrain777]

Wade is not a top 10 player in the league right now:(

[Smook A.]

No order

Kevin Durant
LeBron James
Kevin Love
Chris Paul
Blake Griffin
LaMarcus Aldridge
Stephen Curry
Russell Westbrook
Anthony Davis
Dwight Howard

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron is still the best player in the league/world.

[russwest0]

LeBron is still the best player in the league/world.

averaged 22 ppg in his biggest playoff series so far, all vs a shitty east team :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Keno]

LeBron is still the best player in the league/world.

forreal. how can you say with a straight face that durant is the best player in the league while he's laying an egg this post season lmao. if he really is the best player in the league, then i feel sorry for the casual fans having to witness a pathetic display of basketball.

[Real14]

:coleman: :coleman: :coleman: :coleman: :coleman: :coleman: :coleman: :coleman: :coleman: :coleman:

[NumberSix]

OP is a SOOOPER mad

[annbafan]

Anthony and George are top 10

[joeyjoejoe]

Lebron


Durant
Cp3
Griffin
Curry
Dwight
L.a
Parker
Love
Wade

[JohnFreeman]

averaged 22 ppg in his biggest playoff series so far, all vs a shitty east team :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:
and Durant is playing second fiddle to Westbrook :confusedshrug:

[Mure]

Lol Durant isn't even the best player on his team, let alone the league. :lol :lol OP is in full melt-down.

[LakersFan626]

Durant
LeBron
Wade
Westbrook
Davis
Kobe
Parker
Curry
Dirk
Aldridge

Only 2 players fom the East and they are on the same team? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Davis is only in his 2nd year and was on a losing team, Kobe was injured all year, and Dirk's well past his prime.

I'd replace those three with Blake (best PF in the league), Paul (best PG in the league), and Dwight (best center in the league) and Harden would edge out Parker by a hair as he did bring the Rockets from being an average team to a solid team despite no defense and choking, plus he's the best SG in the league. After these playoffs, Westbrook replaces George on the list though (kept him off my earlier list because he was injured and the Thunder were doing better without him, plus George was playing VERY well when the Pacers were dominating, and I hesitate to change the top 10 player list until playoffs, when it REALLY matters).

[Marlo_Stanfield]

how butthurt is OP for putting Durant over Bron??:biggums:

[sejoon101]

Melo is sooo disrespected everywhere

[chips93]

http://i.imgur.com/ySAyLr7.png


Out of all the players who play high minutes, Lebron is the best. Westbrook and Durant are 2-3 and basically equal in scoring. Westbrook is a better overall player than KD because of his impact on defense and better assist numbers.

1. LBJ
2. Westbrook
3. Durant

dat sample size tho

[Dresta]

http://i.imgur.com/ySAyLr7.png


Out of all the players who play high minutes, Lebron is the best. Westbrook and Durant are 2-3 and basically equal in scoring. Westbrook is a better overall player than KD because of his impact on defense and better assist numbers.

1. LBJ
2. Westbrook
3. Durant

Please don't post this nonsense. You're only make yourself look foolish. Per minute points production has to be one of the most idiotic means of assessing the impact of a player there is.

Look at Jamal Crawford, dat monster :bowdown:

[miles berg]

LeBron
Durant
CP3
Westbrook
Parker
Curry
Griffin
Nowitzki
Aldridge
Parker

[Nikola_]

Only one east player and he is the best:oldlol:

[lilteapot]

OP's mother obviously got drunk on a nightly basis when she was carrying his ass inside her womb

[J Shuttlesworth]

Please don't post this nonsense. You're only make yourself look foolish. Per minute points production has to be one of the most idiotic means of assessing the impact of a player there is.

Look at Jamal Crawford, dat monster :bowdown:
Look at all the players who play over 30 minutes :rolleyes: It's not that complicated

[ralph_i_el]

Durant
LeBron
Wade
Westbrook
Davis
Kobe
Parker
Curry
Dirk
Aldridge

Only 2 players fom the East and they are on the same team? :wtf: :wtf: :wtf:



kobe:facepalm
CP3 and BG out of the top 10:facepalm

You don't get to be a top 10 player when you can't play 60 games (wade) in a season ever again.

My top 10 no order
Durant
BronBron
Cp3
Russ Eaststream
BG
Kevin Love
Dwight
Davis
Dirk
Melo

[Kingwillball]

averaged 22 ppg in his biggest playoff series so far, all vs a shitty east team :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Oh your counting the 7 point gm i see take that out of equation he averaged what 27 plus 1 game he only played 2 1/2 qtrs cause of blowout. Nice try though with KD averaging 6 more minutes a game..

[DMAVS41]

Here are the locks in my opinion

Lebron
Westbrook
Durant
Paul
Griffin
Howard
Carmelo
Curry
Love

I might be forgetting someone.

But then Noah, Dirk, Marc Gasol, LMA, Paul George, Harden (even though he has a lot of work to do), Anthony Davis (he'll be a top 10 player next year I bet), Al Jefferson...in some order.

[Duggrr]

L. James
K. Durant
C. Paul
R. Westbrook
B. Griffin
L. Aldridge
D. Howard
S. Curry
T. Parker
C. Anthony

[T_L_P]

Parker. :facepalm

He's having one of the worst superstar Playoff runs in league history.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Here are the locks in my opinion

Lebron
Westbrook
Durant
Paul
Griffin
Howard
Carmelo
Curry
Love

I might be forgetting someone.

But then Noah, Dirk, Marc Gasol, LMA, Paul George, Harden (even though he has a lot of work to do), Anthony Davis (he'll be a top 10 player next year I bet), Al Jefferson...in some order.
:applause: DMAVS aint no troll either. This dude is as unbiased as it gets. It's not hard to see that Westbrook has had a greater impact in the playoffs so far, and played HUGE in the important games, where Durant was quiet

[DMAVS41]

L. James
K. Durant
C. Paul
R. Westbrook
B. Griffin
L. Aldridge
D. Howard
S. Curry
T. Parker
C. Anthony

Definitely not Parker...LOL

LMA has a case, but I really think he gets over-rated here. He shot 51% TS in the regular season and then shot 51% TS in the playoffs. He's not a great playmaker nor can you really run the offense through him time and time again.

He's good, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he's solidified himself as a top 10 player.

[Victoire]

Parker. :facepalm

He's having one of the worst superstar Playoff runs in league history.

And you are one of the worse posters around, Duncan fanboy!

Obviously Parker is a top 10 player, despite 2013-2014 being a quite bad year by his standards.

[tpols]

Definitely not Parker...LOL

LMA has a case, but I really think he gets over-rated here. He shot 51% TS in the regular season and then shot 51% TS in the playoffs. He's not a great playmaker nor can you really run the offense through him time and time again.

He's good, don't get me wrong, but I don't think he's solidified himself as a top 10 player.
huh?

Tony parker currently is a better player than Melo, love and curry.. curry's close.. kevin love is a bunch of empty stats on a shit team.. hes one of the most unclutch players in the whole league and just gathers stats in the flow without ever taking over. Melo has done absolutely nothing of note his whole career and has crumbled in the playoffs every single year and just led a team that did not make the playoffs in one of the weakest conferences of all time.

[DMAVS41]

huh?

Tony parker currently is a better player than Melo, love and curry.. curry's close.. kevin love is a bunch of empty stats on a shit team.. hes one of the most unclutch players in the whole league and just gathers stats in the flow without ever taking over. Melo has done absolutely nothing of note his whole career and has crumbled in the playoffs every single year and just led a team that did not make the playoffs in one of the weakest conferences of all time.

No...he really isn't.

He isn't forced to do anything on his own man. You people are always railing on Duncan for being a system guy, but you have it all wrong. It's Parker that is the system guy.

Parker has easily become the most over-rated player in the league on here if you clowns honestly think he's better than Melo and Love.

Once again Parker is shooting his 51% TS (not sure on this but it's something like that) while he gets to pick his spots and rarely takes any tough bailout type shots...while playing his usual shit defense and disappearing for long stretches.

He is not a superstar nor is he a top 10 player in this league.

[ArbitraryWater]

http://i.imgur.com/ySAyLr7.png



Dennis ****ING Schr

[ArbitraryWater]

No...he really isn't.

He isn't forced to do anything on his own man. You people are always railing on Duncan for being a system guy, but you have it all wrong. It's Parker that is the system guy.

Parker has easily become the most over-rated player in the league on here if you clowns honestly think he's better than Melo and Love.

I dont know... Id take Parker over Melo as well I guess :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

No...he really isn't.

He isn't forced to do anything on his own man. You people are always railing on Duncan for being a system guy, but you have it all wrong. It's Parker that is the system guy.

Parker has easily become the most over-rated player in the league on here if you clowns honestly think he's better than Melo and Love.

Parker was voted to the second team all nba last year.. in a league that is more stacked at the guard position than the big man he was voted top 4 in the whole league for backcourt players.

Based on that selection he was factually a top 10 player in the league.:confusedshrug:


I dont think you understand spurs basketball very well.. parker is the only player capable of dribbling against pressure and setting the tone offensively for the whole team. Manu and Diaw are nice support creators and duncans the screen setter/facilitator.. but parker creates and dictates momentum like crazy.

He's on one of the best offenses in the league's leading assist man, scorer, playmaker, and biggest offensive threat. Again the key cog in a top ranked elite offense.


You'd have a point if melo or love were good defenders, but theyre pretty lazy and downright atrocious at times.. and they play selfish brand of basketball on mediocre offensive teams.. I guess if you prefer volume scoring on average offenses that lead to 9 and 10 seeds theyll be your guys.

[T_L_P]

No...he really isn't.

He isn't forced to do anything on his own man. You people are always railing on Duncan for being a system guy, but you have it all wrong. It's Parker that is the system guy.

Parker has easily become the most over-rated player in the league on here if you clowns honestly think he's better than Melo and Love.

Once again Parker is shooting his 51% TS (not sure on this but it's something like that) while he gets to pick his spots and rarely takes any tough bailout type shots...while playing his usual shit defense and disappearing for long stretches.

He is not a superstar nor is he a top 10 player in this league.

Even though advanced stats need to be used with the raw numbers, Parker is having a historically bad Playoff run (at least for a superstar).

This postseason, he's 7th in PER, 11th in TS%, 12th in ORTg, 13th in DRtg, 7th in Win Shares, and 13th in WS/48. I should mention that's where he ranks on his own team, not the entire league.

"In Playoff history, of players that have participated in 10 or more Playoff games during their run, the only players with a comparable usage rate that have played as poorly as Parker are 1983 Andrew Toney and 2000 Allen Iverson."

The Spurs don't have a single top ten player tbh.

[tpols]

I dont know... Id take Parker over Melo as well I guess :confusedshrug:

Its so absurd.:oldlol: Everytime melo gets a chance to prove himself he comes up like shit.. sure he takes a lot of shots in iso situations and does nothing to promote efficient team offense but those numbers:eek:

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]Dennis ****ING Schr

[DMAVS41]

Parker was voted to the second team all nba last year.. in a league that is more stacked at the guard position than the big man he was voted top 4 in the whole league for backcourt players.

Based on that selection he was factually a top 10 player in the league.:confusedshrug:


I dont think you understand spurs basketball very well.. parker is the only player capable of dribbling against pressure and setting the tone offensively for the whole team. Manu and Diaw are nice support creators and duncans the screen setter/facilitator.. but parker creates and dictates momentum like crazy.

He's on one of the best offenses in the league's leading assist man, scorer, playmaker, and biggest offensive threat. Again the key cog in a top ranked elite offense.


You'd have a point if melo or love were good defenders, but theyre pretty lazy and downright atrocious at times.. and they play selfish brand of basketball on mediocre offensive teams.. I guess if you prefer volume scoring on average offenses that lead to 9 and 10 seeds theyll be your guys.


I prefer guys that are better at basketball and make the defense react more to them.

I don't understand basketball well? Okay...lets take the inefficient pg that doesn't play defense or rebound that plays in an ideal system in which he gets to pick and choose his spots...and still can't manufacture an efficiency level about low 50's TS....

Yes...he's so dominant....with his 14/2/6 51% TS so far in this series.

Do you know what would happen to Melo or Love if they did that through 5 games of a playoff series??????

There is a reason they are held to a different standard...they are clearly better players.

And don't give me that 9th/10th seed crap. We really gonna pretend that are on even teams?

Without Parker on the floor this year...the Spurs outscored opponents by 9.4 points per 100 possessions

Without Melo on the floor this year...the Knicks GOT outscored by opponents by 7.7 points per 100 possessions

Without Love on the floor this year...the Wolves GOT outscored by opponents by 5.4 points per 100 poessessions

[Legends66NBA7]

Drugs? or just an awful sense of humour?

Arbitrary lives in Germany and his post is obvious sarcasm to his fellow countryman.

[tpols]

Defenses dont react to parker? parker puts infinitely more pressure on defenses than melo or love. Melo doesnt make defenses collapse.. isnt a great passer or playmaker. He just shoots the ball in isolation most of the time.

Same with love.. lots of rebounds, long threes, he can iso a bit. But he doesnt break defenses down. Hes one of the worst crunchtime scorers in the whole league. He isnt a creator or player that breaks defenses down at all.



Parker on the other hand is the best penetrating guard in the entire league.. he is spectacular at running the PnR and manipulating a defense to chase him all over the court. You have the nerve to say melo and love break down defenses more?? .:biggums:


Parker doesnt shoot threes or get to the line like a 'superstar' does.. hes a midrange creator used to make defenses shift. He shoots 50% from the field for the entire playoffs while leading the team in scoring. Thats inefficient??:biggums:

[DMAVS41]

Defenses dont react to parker? parker puts infinitely more pressure on defenses than melo or love. Melo doesnt make defenses collapse.. isnt a great passer or playmaker. He just shoots the ball in isolation most of the time.

Same with love.. lots of rebounds, long threes, he can iso a bit. But he doesnt break defenses down. Hes one of the worst crunchtime scorers in the whole league. He isnt a creator or player that breaks defenses down at all.



Parker on the other hand is the best penetrating guard in the entire league.. he is spectacular at running the PnR and manipulating a defense to chase him all over the court. You have the nerve to say melo and love break down defenses more?? .:biggums:


Parker doesnt shoot threes or get to the line like a 'superstar' does.. hes a midrange creator used to make defenses shift. He shoots 50% from the field for the entire playoffs while leading the team in scoring. Thats inefficient??:biggums:

For a player that gets to pick his spots like Parker...and is almost always given lanes to the basket or wide open jumpers....yes, a low 50's TS percentage is not great overall.

Did I say break down defenses more? What? No...I said make a defense react more you idiot.

What is the obsession with this "break down" defenses shit. You sound like a ****ing moronic Rose stan.

By react...I mean...if the defense doesn't really focus on stopping a guy like Melo...he's going to drop 35 plus consistently.

Parker isn't that type of player. He's a really good player that plays his role very well, but he also is inconsistent and plays like trash way more often than you are letting on.

Again...14/2/6 51% TS in this series...and getting lit the **** up by everyone the Spurs put him on. But you call Duncan the system player often...why? In seem weird way to prop up Parker so it diminishes Duncan in Kobe comparisons. We all see right through it...your problem is that Parker is actually the system player. On his own he really doesn't do anything elite...well, he finishes around the rim at an elite level, but I wonder what that would be like if he had to carry his own team without the depth and help he has on the Spurs.

Duncan, on any team, even at his old age...is going to be a force on the glass and on defense.


You really telling me that if Parker/Love/Melo are the options to start a team and you can get them at the same price...you are picking Parker over them?

[Dresta]

Look at all the players who play over 30 minutes :rolleyes: It's not that complicated
And it's still incredibly idiotic. Why are you excluding Manu? He's played awesome. Once again, points per 48 min production is a terrible means of evaluating player performance, and utterly fatuous.

It seems this basketball game is way too complicated a sport for your simple mind actually.

[SHABBA]

Tier 1: Bron, KD
Tier 2: Westbrook, CP, Curry
Tier 3: Melo, Love, Griffin, Howard, Davis

[tpols]

What do you mean by pick his spots.. parker runs the damn offense to start the game and set the tone. Hes the primary ballhandler, scorer, playmaker, and overall creator. You're acting like hes some spot up shooter cherry picking points. He runs the whole offense. :oldlol:


If the defense doesnt really focus on melo hes going to drop 35+.. uhh so what? He doesnt get others involved. Teams love to let melo get his in isolation.. it takes everyone else off their game since hes a ballstopepr and likes to hold onto it for a long while before maiking a move. The knicks team offense SUCKS.

Parker's ability to navigate the paint and lower half of the half court to get big men out of position and free up 3 pters is hugely responsible for the spurs offense getting into gear. His craftiness, vision, and passing elevate the whole team offense, and its a fact that he makes defenses shift and react more than melo because hes in constant motion with the rest of his teammates while melo is constantly at a stand still with his guys spectating.


And no.. 50% shooting from the field for your point guard is efficient.. extremely far from inefficient. Parker has tremendous shot selcetion and gets his in the game at a nice rate. He doesnt get superstar respect to shoot enough FTs to match someone like durant and he isnt a 3 pt shooter so he doesnt get huge boosts in TS for those reasons. But 50% from the field? Yea thats not inefficient. You're a nut.

[DMAVS41]

What do you mean by pick his spots.. parker runs the damn offense to start the game and set the tone. Hes the primary ballhandler, scorer, playmaker, and overall creator. You're acting like hes some spot up shooter cherry picking points. He runs the whole offense. :oldlol:


If the defense doesnt really focus on melo hes going to drop 35+.. uhh so what? He doesnt get others involved. Teams love to let melo get his in isolation.. it takes everyone else off their game since hes a ballstopepr and likes to hold onto it for a long while before maiking a move. The knicks team offense SUCKS.

Parker's ability to navigate the paint and lower half of the half court to get big men out of position and free up 3 pters is hugely responsible for the spurs offense getting into gear. His craftiness, vision, and passing elevate the whole team offense, and its a fact that he makes defenses shift and react more than melo because hes in constant motion with the rest of his teammates while melo is constantly at a stand still with his guys spectating.


And no.. 50% shooting from the field for your point guard is efficient.. extremely far from inefficient. Parker has tremendous shot selcetion and gets his in the game at a nice rate. He doesnt get superstar respect to shoot enough FTs to match someone like durant and he isnt a 3 pt shooter so he doesnt get huge boosts in TS for those reasons. But 50% from the field? Yea thats not inefficient. You're a nut.

Getting to the line and all that stuff is part of how good a player is at basketball you nut.

You don't get to just shrug off Parker's poor efficiency overall...especially when he is not require to do the kind of things a Melo or Love is on offense that hurts their efficiency.

I don't even like Melo, but this is absurd. He's just a way better basketball player than Parker.

Now, if you want to talk about value per dollar of salary or something...then that gets interesting, but in a vacuum...Parker is not on the level of Melo/Love as players.

You would be ****ing killing Melo right now if he was putting up 14/2/6 51% TS while getting lit up by everyone he tried to guard in a conference finals.

Why aren't you holding Parker to the same standards? Could it be that deep down you know they aren't on the same level?

[Carbine]

Defenses dont react to parker? parker puts infinitely more pressure on defenses than melo or love. Melo doesnt make defenses collapse.. isnt a great passer or playmaker. He just shoots the ball in isolation most of the time.

Same with love.. lots of rebounds, long threes, he can iso a bit. But he doesnt break defenses down. Hes one of the worst crunchtime scorers in the whole league. He isnt a creator or player that breaks defenses down at all.



Parker on the other hand is the best penetrating guard in the entire league.. he is spectacular at running the PnR and manipulating a defense to chase him all over the court. You have the nerve to say melo and love break down defenses more?? .:biggums:


Parker doesnt shoot threes or get to the line like a 'superstar' does.. hes a midrange creator used to make defenses shift. He shoots 50% from the field for the entire playoffs while leading the team in scoring. Thats inefficient??:biggums:

That should be put to bed if you have watched this series. Westbrook is far, far more explosive getting by his man and into the paint. He's on a whole different tier than Parker.

[tpols]

Melo's a way better basketball than parker..:coleman: You've gone off the deep end my friend.


It's funny how you cant respond to actual basketball discussion sometimes. Someone brings up level of play and you go right for stats. Why cant you explain anything?

Your comments on making the defenses react have been completely obliterated as has your efficiency comment. Now you're holding on to 5 games of playoff data when parker was great in the other two series.. led them in scoring and shot efficiently vs Dallas and absolutely destroyed lilliard like he was playing with his son in the park or something.



The spurs blew the doors off OKC in the first two games..

Game 1 Parker only took 12 shots but was facilitating like crazy with 12 assists.

Game 2 he came out with 10-17 shooting leading his team in scoring in another blowout.

Games 4 and 5 he shot 50% from the field and only took 12 shots each game.. with game 3 being his worst of the series.



Overall? Parker's only taking ~13 shots a game in this series to score 14 points.. he has secondary duties to his own scoring and tries to get the whole team up and running.


Melo averages 21 shots per game.. If melo were to try and jack that many on SA? Hed be on the bench. In the playoffs the last two years melo has shot the ball 25 times to score 27 and 28 ppg respectively.:eek:

So yea.. if Melo cut down on his shooting and only shot the ball 12ish times a game hed be on track to score about 14 ppg as well. Except Tony Parker fills the void of the 9 or so shot difference between them with incredible playmaking and running of an elite offense.

What would melo do to be a superstar if he was reduced to only 12-13 shots per game in a balanced team offense? He brings nothing else to the table if you dont let him chuck. :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

That should be put to bed if you have watched this series. Westbrook is far, far more explosive getting by his man and into the paint. He's on a whole different tier than Parker.

Westbrook sprints into the paint and is one of the strongest most aggressive finishers I've ever seen. But when WB goes into the paint he gets tunnel vision like a bull seeing red he tries to murder the rim.


Parker is a classic penetrator in that he can weave in and out to look for crafty finishes and open teammates in a steve nash sort of way. Thats what I meant by penetrator. WB has one gear and one motive where as parker has an array of options he can take while slashing and circling. I would never argue he could finish like WB.

[DMAVS41]

Melo's a way better basketball than parker..:coleman: You've gone off the deep end my friend.


It's funny how you cant respond to actual basketball discussion sometimes. Someone brings up level of play and you go right for stats. Why cant you explain anything?

Your comments on making the defenses react have been completely obliterated as has your efficiency comment. Now you're holding on to 5 games of playoff data when parker was great in the other two series.. led them in scoring and shot efficiently vs Dallas and absolutely destroyed lilliard like he was playing with his son in the park or something.



The spurs blew the doors off OKC in the first two games..

Game 1 Parker only took 12 shots but was facilitating like crazy with 12 assists.

Game 2 he came out with 10-17 shooting leading his team in scoring in another blowout.

Games 4 and 5 he shot 50% from the field and only took 12 shots each game.. with game 3 being his worst of the series.



Overall? Parker's only taking ~12 shots a game in this series to score 14 points.. he has secondary duties to his own scoring and tries to get the whole team up and running.


Melo averages 21 shots per game.. If melo were to try and jack that many on SA? Hed be on the bench. In the playoffs the last two years melo has shot the ball 25 times to score 27 and 28 ppg respectively.:eek:

So yea.. if Melo cut down on his shooting and only shot the ball 12ish times a game hed be on track to score about 14 ppg as well. Except Tony Parker fills the void of the 9 or so shot difference between them with incredible playmaking and running of an elite offense.

What would melo do to be a superstar if he was reduced to only 12-13 shots per game in a balanced team offense? He brings nothing else to the table if you dont let him chuck. :confusedshrug:


Can't talk basketball? Obliterate? What?

Dude...if the defenses treated Parker like Melo...he wouldn't be able to do anything. He has been shut down in this series...and my god...his playmaking so ****ing over-rated. He's not Paul and he's not Nash...stop acting like this guy does what they do! He doesn't.

What Parker does really well is play his role on a great team with a great coach. He's a really good player.

But he's not a superstar and it's obvious to anyone not trying to bring Duncan down.

Carmelo can have an offense run through him regardless of help. He can produce on his own. He doesn't need the kind of help Parker does.

You just don't get it. And you never will...

The only thing that has been obliterated is your shit about the 9th and 10th seeds thing...LOL...just pathetic you would even try to bring that up.

And it's not just this series. He was dreadful in the finals last year and has been dreadful so far in this series.

Conveniently you have ignored how awful his defense has been this series as well...and it's always awful. But you don't hold him accountable because he's not a superstar! He's not a top 10 player in the league!

Nobody cares when he does this because he's irrelevant in these types of discussions.

He's a very good player...that is all.

[DMAVS41]

Westbrook sprints into the paint and is one of the strongest most aggressive finishers I've ever seen. But when WB goes into the paint he gets tunnel vision like a bull seeing red he tries to murder the rim.


Parker is a classic penetrator in that he can weave in and out to look for crafty finishes and open teammates in a steve nash sort of way. Thats what I meant by penetrator. WB has one gear and one motive where as parker has an array of options he can take while slashing and circling. I would never argue he could finish like WB.

Stop comparing him to Nash!!!!!!!!!!!

He is not close to Nash as a playmaker. You are just literally making shit up left and right.

[tpols]

"If defenses treated parker like Melo.. he wouldnt be able to do anything"


:roll:

Please explain how defenses guard melo in a way parker different from parker. I've watched a hundred knicks games.. I've seen melo play live multiple times. Teams play him one on one in isolation, hell see doubles as the shot clock goes down because he isnt very quick side to side and cant dribble out of them like Parker can when hes being hedged, and of course teams pay dearly for doubling parker because hes a fantastic passer and melo is not.

This is one of the most baseless comments I've ever read. What are defenses doing to melo that theyre not doing to parker? You cant double parker because hes quick and crafty enough to slip through the holes and has the vision to spot the open man.. otherwise, if teams could guard him like they do melo? They would.

Melo did the same shit in denver when his squad was loaded. He still was always inefficient and just jacked shots in isolation. He still wasnt a great passer to take advantage of defenses collapsing on him. These are all things parker is not.


"Melo can run offense all by himself without help."

So in other words hes a better isolation player.. I would never argue against that. Hes a waaaay inferior team player though.. and since basketball is a team game, I'll take the team player.


"He doesnt need the kind of help parker does"

To do what? Lead his team to a non-playoff berth in one of the weakest conferences ever? What has melo done without help? Absolutely nothing.. dogshit. You say it like melo is leading his subpar team somwhere right now.. they didnt go anywhere dude. You could put monta ellis on the knicks and they still wouldve been about where theyre at now.


And when Melo did have help, and a lot of it on denver.. great big men, coaching, perimeter support, he still was inefficient as all and only got out the first round ONE time. And again its his style of play, hes an isolation player. A guy you want to use in the JJ role to close games, but not to run an offense through for 48. Youll never win shit.


Parker can run an elite offense. Melo cant. Simply put.


And factually, Parker has had a case for top 10 player for quite some time. He was voted top 10 player in the league just last year as evidenced by his all NBA team selection. Both him and Duncan are top 10 impact, ying yang as defensive and offensive commanders for a top notch team.

But TS!! But Melo scores more!! Did you see that shot:eek: :eek:

[Rocketswin2013]

There's no right answer to this IMO.
The bolded could be argued to being in or out of the top 10.

LeBron
KD
CP3
Westbrook
Howard
Griffin
Curry


Dirk, Harden, George, Wade, Love, Davis, Melo, Parker, LMA, Duncan.


Depends on how you balance playoff play, staying healthy, consistency, winning and if they're two way players.

[DMAVS41]

"If defenses treated parker like Melo.. he wouldnt be able to do anything"


:roll:

Please explain how defenses guard melo in a way parker different from parker. I've watched a hundred knicks games.. I've seen melo play live multiple times. Teams play him one on one in isolation, hell see doubles as the shot clock goes down because he isnt very quick side to side and cant dribble out of them like Parker can when hes being hedged, and of course teams pay dearly for doubling parker because hes a fantastic passer and melo is not.

This is one of the most baseless comments I've ever read. What are defenses doing to melo that theyre not doing to parker? You cant double parker because hes quick and crafty enough to slip through the holes and has the vision to spot the open man.. otherwise, if teams could guard him like they do melo? They would.

Melo did the same shit in denver when his squad was loaded. He still was always inefficient and just jacked shots in isolation. He still wasnt a great passer to take advantage of defenses collapsing on him. These are all things parker is not.


"Melo can run offense all by himself without help."

So in other words hes a better isolation player.. I would never argue against that. Hes a waaaay inferior team player though.. and since basketball is a team game, I'll take the team player.


"He doesnt need the kind of help parker does"

To do what? Lead his team to a non-playoff berth in one of the weakest conferences ever? What has melo done without help? Absolutely nothing.. dogshit. You say it like melo is leading his subpar team somwhere right now.. they didnt go anywhere dude. You could put monta ellis on the knicks and they still wouldve been about where theyre at now.


And when Melo did have help, and a lot of it on denver.. great big men, coaching, perimeter support, he still was inefficient as all and only got out the first round ONE time. And again its his style of play, hes an isolation player. A guy you want to use in the JJ role to close games, but not to run an offense through for 48. Youll never win shit.


Parker can run an elite offense. Melo cant. Simply put.


And factually, Parker has had a case for top 10 player for quite some time. He was voted top 10 player in the league just last year as evidenced by his all NBA team selection. Both him and Duncan are top 10 impact, ying yang as defensive and offensive commanders for a top notch team.

But TS!! But Melo scores more!! Did you see that shot:eek: :eek:

Lets try this another way.

Was Kobe in 2013 better than Parker?

Because literally all the same shit you have been saying about Melo applies to Kobe post 2010.

In fact, Kobe's defense is probably worse over that time....although in fairness Melo was equally, if not more, terrible in 13.

So do you rank Parker over Kobe post 2010 as a player as well?

But TS!! But Kobe scores more!! Did you see that shot :eek: :eek:

I'll just throw out the numbers post 2011 in case anyone else is following this conversation;

Regular season;

Melo 26/7/3 55% TS
Kobe 26/5/5 55% TS

Playoffs;

Melo 28/8/2 50% TS
Kobe 27/4/4 53% TS

I'd probably say Melo's defense has been slightly better, but I wouldn't argue much about them being equal. Kobe is definitely a better play maker, but it comes at the price of his higher turnover percentage...and there is a pretty big gap there.

So can you stay consistent and say that Parker is a better player than Kobe over that time as well? If so...then I will concede the argument.

[tpols]

Kobe averaged 6 assists per game.. melo averages half that.

Also, Kobe was a bit selfish with his scoring to start the season, but in the middle when LA picked things up they did so because kobe went facilitator mode getting 10 or so assists for stretches of games to elevate the team offense. Melo cant nor has he ever done that. Kobe is like a cross between melo and parker.. he has elements to his game where he can take over scoring, and others where he can facilitate at a very high level.

Overall kobe in 2013 was slightly better than parker in the regular season.. not by much, and they were both better than Melo.


Its amazing you cant see the differences in playmaking/team play between melo and kobe.. I had a gut feeling youd bring him up. Its not close in that regard.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe averaged 6 assists per game.. melo averages half that.

Also, Kobe was a bit selfish with his scoring to start the season, but in the middle when LA picked things up they did so because kobe went facilitator mode getting 10 or so assists for stretches of games to elevate the team offense. Melo cant nor has he ever done that. Kobe is like a cross between melo and parker.. he has elements to his game where he can take over scoring, and others where he can facilitate at a very high level.

Overall kobe in 2013 was slightly better than parker in the regular season.. not by much, and they were both better than Melo.


Its amazing you cant see the differences in playmaking/team play between melo and kobe.. I had a gut feeling youd bring him up. Its not close in that regard.

It comes at a high price with Kobe...he turns it over more than Melo and assists are not the only factor when playmaking as well. Melo does a lot to help his teams score....I figure you knew that as Parker has never averaged many assists for a pg and he's a way better playmaker than those numbers indicate.

[tpols]

It comes at a high price with Kobe...he turns it over more than Melo and assists are not the only factor when playmaking as well. Melo does a lot to help his teams score....I figure you knew that as Parker has never averaged many assists for a pg and he's a way better playmaker than those numbers indicate.

Parker is a better playmaker than his assists indicate because spurs rely a ton on swinging the ball and not just iso kick outs.


Kobe turns the ball over more, but is unquestionably better at setting his teammates up, running a PnR, handling the ball on the perimeter etc. He's ebtter for a flowing team offense. Melo is too stand still.. hes been on one top 5 offense in his entire career and it didnt even come when he was on those nugget teams( and had plenty of offensive help).

He really doesnt do a lot at all to help his guys.. for someone who sees as many doubles and defenders thrown at him as he does.. 2 asists per game in the playoffs??? That is atrocious. He doesnt know how to find the open man and his style of play discourages his teammates from cutting since it would shift the defense and make it harder for him to score in iso.

[DMAVS41]

Parker is a better playmaker than his assists indicate because spurs rely a ton on swinging the ball and not just iso kick outs.


Kobe turns the ball over more, but is unquestionably better at setting his teammates up, running a PnR, handling the ball on the perimeter etc. He's ebtter for a flowing team offense. Melo is too stand still.. hes been on one top 5 offense in his entire career and it didnt even come when he was on those nugget teams( and had plenty of offensive help).

He really doesnt do a lot at all to help his guys.. for someone who sees as many doubles and defenders thrown at him as he does.. 2 asists per game in the playoffs??? That is atrocious. He doesnt know how to find the open man and his style of play discourages his teammates from cutting since it would shift the defense and make it harder for him to score in iso.

You just answered your own question...Melo doesn't dance a lot with the ball like Kobe. They use up possessions similarly...but Melo doesn't dance with the ball as much as kobe does. he's off the ball more often. so of course Kobe is going to pile up more assists, but more turnovers as well.

Do Melo's extra 2 to 3 rebounds per game not count either? If we are just counting up raw stats....are Kobe's assists and more turnovers per usage more valuable than Melo's superior rebounding?

The fact that you think there is a gap between Melo and Kobe on your criteria you have laid out in this thread from 2011 to present is hilarious.

And what are you talking about I can't see the difference in playmaking? I said Kobe was definitely better. Just like Melo is definitely a better rebounder. At 7.7 to 4.2 in the playoffs in the time we are discussing. Why does that mean nothing?

LOL

[tpols]

The criteria I've laid out is that parker and Kobe can be great team players and facilitators in addition to their scoring while melo is a one trick pony. I also brought up all nba selections which have both kobe and parker ahead of melo, factually.



You have now resorted to bringing up something outside of offensive play, since you saw my arguments were consistent, in an attempt to argue melo over both of them.. which is comical, because I've never seen Melo take over games with rebounding the way kobe/parker have with their playmaking.

Melo grabs a lot of defensive boards on some of the worst defensive teams in the league who have had countless injuries to their best rebounding big men.. The knicks just came off a season where they were 27th best rebounding team in the league.. yea Melo's really controlling those boards.

Gdamn.. where would you be w/o your stats

[DMAVS41]

The criteria I've laid out is that parker and Kobe can be great team players and facilitators in addition to their scoring while melo is a one trick pony. I also brought up all nba selections which have both kobe and parker ahead of melo, factually.



You have now resorted to bringing up something outside of offensive play, since you saw my arguments were consistent, in an attempt to argue melo over both of them.. which is comical, because I've never seen Melo take over games with rebounding the way kobe/parker have with their playmaking.

Melo grabs a lot of defensive boards on some of the worst defensive teams in the league who have had countless injuries to their best rebounding big men.. The knicks just came off a season where they were 27th best rebounding team in the league.. yea Melo's really controlling those boards.

Gdamn.. where would you be w/o your stats

Dude...you can't argue that Melo's rebounds are less valuable when Kobe doesn't play with a real pg...and when he has...he's ****ing taken steve nash of all people off the ball.

Where would I be? ROFL...this is priceless.

Kobe is an iso wing player. He has never been now nor ever a great playmaker...and neither has Parker.

Melo and Kobe are wing iso players and while Kobe is a better playmaker...it's not who he is...everything you have written about Melo could be accurately written about Kobe.

You are trading a 2 or 3 more assits per game for 2 or 3 more rebounds per game...and doing so at the cost of more turnovers.

This is what people like you don't get...since game 6 in 2010 NBA finals. Kobe has been Melo. That is who he is now...yet you can't admit that because it kills everything for you.

It's why deep down you know Parker isn't better than Melo...because if he is...then that means he's better than Kobe. And you know you don't believe that...

So you are stuck...stuck trying to prop up a guy that has averaged 2.3 more assists per game in the time period we are talking about...while also boasting a real difference in terms of higher turnover rate.

It's hilarious and anyone with a brain sees the double standard. You don't get to just focus on one thing and then laugh off everything else. I want to know why it's fair to attack Melo's playmaking (even though that isn't his game nor should it be as basically a pseudo power forward) and then not attack Parker's inept rebounding. If we aren't judging them at their position, which we clearly aren't, why do you laugh off the fact that Melo is averaging 3 more rebounds per game than Kobe and nearly 5 more rebounds per game than Parker.

That doesn't matter?



You honestly sound like those moronic Rose stans that said Rose is better than Dirk because he can penetrate better. I swear it's like you people don't understand positions. Kobe is a ****ing guard man...Melo is a hybrid 3/4 type player. One should be a better playmaker...one should be a better rebounder. You get that...right?

Anyway...lets try another example. Was Harden the last two years better than Kobe was from 11 through present?

He's got the playmaking down. The scoring down. The iso stuff down. The efficiency down.

Why was Kobe 11 through present Kobe better than Harden????????

Also, is Parker better than Harden?

What about Curry vs Kobe? Curry is a far better playmaker...and his range shooting does things to a defense that old Kobe really doesn't honestly. 24/9/4 61% TS...isn't that better than the iso win scoring that you hate so much?????

[MellowYellow]

Lebron
Durant
Melo
Griffin
Westbrook
CP3
LMA
Love
Howard
Noah

[Mr. Incredible]

OP gets owned once again. :sleeping

[tpols]

No im trading truly dynamic team offensive players for a isolation player who takes too many shots..


Its not about the 2 or 3 assists more.. its about how they get the offense running and involve everyone. Its a whole dynamic. Kobe and parker are absolutely great playmakers.. and have taken over games with their playmaking. Melo very rarely does that.



What it all boils down to is.. when has melo's rebounding been a game changer? When has it been something that took over games? I've honestly never even noticed it.

I see Westbrook skying for boards being extremely aggressive.. grabbing 8 a game for a point guard.. now thats a game changer on the boards. Reminds me of what J-Kidd used to do. Melo grabbing a few extra defensive boards on shit teams defense and rebounding wise? Eh its never made much of a difference.

You're literally using numbers from series the knicks were swept in and destroyed on the boards in to argue that Melo's rebounding should be some sort of tiebreaker when it really isnt. Stats though. All about them stats in a vacuum.

7 and a half boards for a forward logging a ton of minutes isnt changing anything. And its not like hes some defensive stalwart whose expending energy everywhere, or has a crazy nose for the ball and seeks out hard to get rebounds.. that part of his game is just.. meh. It isnt even noteworthy.



Meanwhile Tony Parker is one of the greatest playmakers in the game today.. Is melo one of the greatest rebounders? Not even close.





But yea youre right.. Melo's monster on the board performances eclipse his complete inability to run an efficient team oriented offense.

You've completely thrown in the towel with this rebounding nonsense.. the knicks have been one of the worst rebounding teams in the league year in and year out. LOL

[DMAVS41]

No im trading truly dynamic team offensive players for a isolation player who takes too many shots..


Its not about the 2 or 3 assists more.. its about how they get the offense running and involve everyone. Its a whole dynamic. Kobe and parker are absolutely great playmakers.. and have taken over games with their playmaking. Melo very rarely does that.



What it all boils down to is.. when has melo's rebounding been a game changer? When has it been something that took over games? I've honestly never even noticed it.

I see Westbrook skying for boards being extremely aggressive.. grabbing 8 a game for a point guard.. now thats a game changer on the boards. Reminds me of what J-Kidd used to do. Melo grabbing a few extra defensive boards on shit teams defense and rebounding wise? Eh its never made much of a difference.

You're literally using numbers from series the knicks were swept in and destroyed on the boards in to argue that Melo's rebounding should be some sort of tiebreaker when it really isnt. Stats though. All about them stats in a vacuum.

7 and a half boards for a forward logging a ton of minutes isnt changing anything. And its not like hes some defensive stalwart whose expending energy everywhere, or has a crazy nose for the ball and seeks out hard to get rebounds.. that part of his game is just.. meh. It isnt even noteworthy.



Meanwhile Tony Parker is one of the greatest playmakers in the game today.. Is melo one of the greatest rebounders? Not even close.





But yea youre right.. Melo's monster on the board performances eclipse his complete inability to run an efficient team oriented offense.

You've completely thrown in the towel with this rebounding nonsense.. the knicks have been one of the worst rebounding teams in the league year in and year out. LOL

Jesus christ dude...you can't go on and on about Kobe's assists and then shrug off rebounds.

It's the exact same thing...position is determining it!

Kobe is an iso wing scorer that is absolutely not a great playmaker...stop acting like Parker/Kobe are ****ing steve nash.

They aren't. Melo is a wing scorer that plays off the ball a lot...I don't think you even know what type of player Melo is. He is not dribbling the ball up and running pick and rolls all the time.

That isn't his game. He's a smaller version of Dirk...or at least prime Dirk that played with the ball more...you are comparing apples and oranges.

Please answer;

Harden vs Kobe
Curry vs Kobe

[tpols]

If you dont think Kobe and especially Tony Parker are great playmakers, you honestly know nothing about basketball.




Steve Nash is one of the greatest playmakers ever.. all time.. hes literally like top 5 GOAT in that category. Just because they arent Nash doesnt mean they havent had great impact in that category. Thats like saying someones not a great basketball player if they arent as good as MJ...

[DMAVS41]

If you dont think Kobe and especially Tony Parker are great playmakers, you honestly know nothing about basketball.

If you think they are...you don't know basketball.

Kobe could be argued as such for his position, but it would be semantics likely.

James Harden and Curry are every bit the playmakers Parker and Kobe have been over the last 3 years

Chris Paul is a great playmaker in the way you are using the term. Kobe and Parker are absolutely not great set up guys...I know you want them to be ...but they aren't.

And no...I'm not saying they need to be Nash...I'm saying you are acting like they are. Big difference.


Why do you ignore everything you said about melo when it comes to Kobe?


Again though...please answer the question about Harden/Curry and I'll add Paul vs Kobe.

[dubeta]

Wade is EASILY top 5.

When you factor Offence, Defence, scoring efficiency, and intangibles, you cant name 5 players better. Westbrook is more inefficient and ballhog IQ, Curry cant play D or score as efficiently, and CP3 is only better than Wade at passing, and lacks play-off intangibles.

[MellowYellow]

Wade is EASILY top 5.

When you factor Offence, Defence, scoring efficiency, and intangibles, you cant name 5 players better. Westbrook is more inefficient and ballhog IQ, Curry cant play D or score as efficiently, and CP3 is only better than Wade at passing, and lacks play-off intangibles.

Wade is also playing with a stacked roster centered around Lebron, I am curious to see what he would be like as the number one on a team. He certainly wouldn't be anything close to 09 Wade.

[Young X]

Parker "being a top 10 player" just shows how weak this league is in terms of star power right now.

If Parker's a top 10 player, why doesn't he get the same amount of criticism that other star players get? Why isn't he held to similar standards? Where are the hate threads? Why don't I see multiple threads talking about how overrated he is when he has terrible games?

When the Clippers got eliminated their were tons of "Paul is overrated" type threads. Whenever he had bad games or made crucial mistakes Skip Bayless was on 1stTake with "CP0" jokes the next day.

When Paul George plays terrible I see tons of "George isn't a superstar" kinds of threads. Where are Parker's?

Don't even need to talk about Bron or KD when they have bad games or their teams lose cause we all know this place is unbearable when it happens. Same thing with Harden, same thing with Dwight.

Parker on the other hand has a 9/4 game, his team gets blown out and nobody says anything. He has a terrible finals series and nobody says anything.

He's averaging 17/6 on 55 TS% in the regular season and 18/5 on 52 TS%/101 ORTG in the playoffs. Inefficient with no defense or rebounding to make up for it. He had a 0 pt game where he only played 10 minutes and his team still won in a closeout game against Portland. That's not top 10 play or impact.

[DMAVS41]

Parker "being a top 10 player" just shows how weak this league is in terms of star power right now.

If Parker's a top 10 player, why doesn't he get the same amount of criticism that other star players get? Why isn't he held to similar standards? Where are the hate threads? Why don't I see multiple threads talking about how overrated he is when he has terrible games?

When the Clippers got eliminated their were tons of "Paul is overrated" type threads. Whenever he had bad games or made crucial mistakes Skip Bayless was on 1stTake with "CP0" jokes the next day.

When Paul George plays terrible I see tons of "George isn't a superstar" kinds of threads. Where are Parker's?

Don't even need to talk about Bron or KD when they have bad games or their teams lose cause we all know this place is unbearable when it happens. Same thing with Harden, same thing with Dwight.

Parker on the other hand has a 9/4 game, his team gets blown out and nobody says anything. He has a terrible finals series and nobody says anything.

He's averaging 17/6 on 55 TS% in the regular season and 18/5 on 52 TS%/101 ORTG in the playoffs. Inefficient with no defense or rebounding to make up for it. He had a 0 pt game where he only played 10 minutes and his team still won in a closeout game against Portland. That's not top 10 play or impact.


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[The JKidd Kid]

1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Westbrook
4. CP3
5. Griffin
6. Dwight
7. Curry
8. Love
9. Paul George
10. LMA