It took Duncan ~17 years to...

[ImKobe]

make the NBA Finals in consecutive years.

He's top 10 all-time and everything, but it's crazy that he took so long when he had a good to great supporting cast & coaching staff around him all these years, yet it took him this long to do something Kobe has done multiple times.

[davehos]

make the NBA Finals in consecutive years.

He's top 10 all-time and everything, but it's crazy that he took so long when he had a good to great supporting cast & coaching staff around him all these years, yet it took him this long to do something Kobe has done multiple times.


All these years? You mean the 100 or so since basketball has been a mainstream sport or the 10 or so since you started watching?

[Cocaine80s]

Duncan>>Kobe

[ImKobe]

Duncan>>Kobe

5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4

81 points
FOH kid

[russwest0]

bro he's in the west not the east. chill.

-smak

[navy]

Why does it matter?

[ImKobe]

All these years? You mean the 100 or so since basketball has been a mainstream sport or the 10 or so since you started watching?

u wot m8

[ImKobe]

bro he's in the west not the east. chill.

-smak

Kobe made the Finals 3 times in a row on two different occasions. Of course it's hard for Duncan to make consecutive Finals when a player that's greater than him whooped his candy ass 4 times, twice when Duncan was a defending champion.

[Cocaine80s]

lol at op tryna act all calm and rational when comparing kobe to duncan in this thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339524&page=7

now hes having a meltdown

[ImKobe]

lol at op tryna act all calm and rational when comparing kobe to duncan in this thread: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339524&page=7

now hes having a meltdown

Why do you type like a 12-year-old girl?

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well the Lakers 3-peat was all about Shaq, it was Shaq's one man show.

[Cocaine80s]

Why do you type like a 12-year-old girl?
y r u a 2 faced bitch?

[Artillery]

Well the Lakers 3-peat was all about Shaq, it was Shaq's one man show.

Pretty much. Look at Kobe's 2000 playoff numbers - horrible.

[ImKobe]

Well the Lakers 3-peat was all about Shaq, it was Shaq's one man show.

Kobe led the Lakers to 3 straight Finals without Shaq and he outdid Shaq in the 2001 Western Conference Playoffs:

31.6 ppg 7.0 rpg 6.2 apg 1.6 spg 0.5 bpg on 49/32/81 shooting

And before you use the Pau Gasol argument, let me boil it down for you:

Kobe 2008 WC Playoffs:

31.9 ppg 6.1 rpg 5.8 apg 1.3 spg 0.5 bpg on 51/30/81 shooting

Kobe 2009 WC Playoffs:

29.6 ppg 5.3 rpg 4.9 apg 1.7 spg 0.8 bpg on 47/35/90 shooting

Kobe 2010 WC PlayoffS:

29.4 ppg 5.1 rpg 6.2 apg 1.0 spg 0.7 bpg on 48/41/82 shooting

It's safe to say that Kobe deserved his consecutive Finals appearances.

[Verticality]

Jesus Kobe fans are insecure.

[ImKobe]

Jesus Kobe fans are insecure.

A history lesson for you all: A highlight reel consisting of Kobe Bryant owning the legendary Tim Duncan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxgHgRh95Y

[Verticality]

A history lesson for you all: A highlight reel consisting of Kobe Bryant owning the legendary Tim Duncan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxgHgRh95Y

Thank you for supporting my point :oldlol:

[Artillery]

Jesus Kobe fans are insecure.

Yup. They can't stand the fact that Duncan's still carrying his team to the Finals at age 38 while Kobe can't even walk anymore without the aid of crutches.

[JohnFreeman]

Why would anyone compare a top ten player in Duncan, to Kobe..

[ImKobe]

Why would anyone compare a top ten player in Duncan, to Kobe..

So, you put Tim Duncan above Kobe Bryant, yet:

Duncan never won back-to-back
Kobe has a 4-2 record against Tim Duncan in the Playoffs
5 >>> 4

[JohnFreeman]

So, you put Tim Duncan above Kobe Bryant, yet:

Duncan never won back-to-back
Kobe has a 4-2 record against Tim Duncan in the Playoffs
5 >>> 4
Yeah but Duncan has 3 rings as the man, and two MVPs

[IllegalD]

Yeah but Duncan has 3 rings as the man, and two MVPs

But Duncan needed 3 HOF teammates total (Robinson, Parker, Manu) to win his 4 chips, while Kobe only needed 2 (Shaq, Gasol) for his 5.

[JohnFreeman]

But Duncan needed 3 HOF teammates total (Robinson, Parker, Manu) to win his 4 chips, while Kobe only needed 2 (Shaq, Gasol) for his 5.
Duncan is still better

[ImKobe]

Yeah but Duncan has 3 rings as the man, and two MVPs

Tim Duncan has the worst TS% for any Finals MVP in the modern era, Manu was easily the man in the 2005 Finals while Duncan shot like garbage in nearly every game and if it wasn't for Horry & Manu, Spurs would have lost it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPRo71WrDFU
that poster around the one minute mark :bowdown: :bowdown:
Manu looked like the best SG in the league in that series
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEYVtU--QVo

meanwhile, Duncan had a 10-27 shooting night with 5 turnovers in Gm 7

[Artillery]

But Duncan needed 3 HOF teammates total (Robinson, Parker, Manu) to win his 4 chips, while Kobe only needed 2 (Shaq, Gasol) for his 5.

Duncan was the only All-NBA player on every one of his title teams. Every one of Kobe's championship teams had another All-NBA teammate.

Duncan won MVP/Finals MVP in the same year. Only other player to do that since Jordan are Shaq and Lebron. Kobe? Nope.

Duncan never missed the playoffs in his prime. Kobe has(2005).

Duncan won the majority of his championships as the first option. Kobe was a sidekick for the majority of his championships.

[Artillery]

Tim Duncan has the worst TS% for any Finals MVP in the modern era, Manu was easily the man in the 2005 Finals while Duncan shot like garbage in nearly every game and if it wasn't for Horry & Manu, Spurs would have lost it.

Kobe had an even worse TS% against that same Pistons team in the Finals the year before. Difference is Duncan brought value to his team in other ways when his shot wasn't falling(defense/rebounding). Kobe did nothing but shoot the Lakers out of a title. That's why it's always more valuable to have a two-way player as a star. One-way players like Kobe don't give you anything when they're not making shots.


Manu looked like the best SG in the league in that series

Major props to Manu. He played team basketball and shredded the Pistons while Kobe went chucker mode and was a cancerous influence on the 2004 Lakers. I bet Shaq wishes he had 2005 Manu playing next to him instead of Kirby.


meanwhile, Duncan had a 10-27 shooting night with 5 turnovers in Gm 7

Kobe 6-24 in game 7 of 2010 Finals. Bailed out by Gasol/Metta.

[ImKobe]

Kobe had an even worse TS% against that same Pistons team in the Finals the year before. Difference is Duncan brought value to his team in other ways when his shot wasn't falling(defense/rebounding). Kobe did nothing but shoot the Lakers out of a title. That's why it's always more valuable to have a two-way player as a star. One-way players like Kobe don't give you anything when they're not making shots.



Major props to Manu. He played team basketball and shredded the Pistons while Kobe went chucker mode and was a cancerous influence on the 2004 Lakers. I bet Shaq wishes he had 2005 Manu playing next to him instead of Kirby.



Kobe 6-24 in game 7 of 2010 Finals. Bailed out by Gasol/Metta.

there is no need to be upset

[IllegalD]

Butthurt LeBron Stans, cause their boy already has as many Finals losses than Kobe does in half as many seasons in the league.

Deep down it must stink like high hell to them that LeBron is dominating the weakest era of competition in the post-Jordan times where their biggest obstacle is an aging Spurs core who's transcendent player is 38, and way past his prime, and who haven't won anything 7 seasons. And that the "2nd best player in the league" is a beta who might not even be the best player on his own team.

[Mr Feeny]

make the NBA Finals in consecutive years.

He's top 10 all-time and everything, but it's crazy that he took so long when he had a good to great supporting cast & coaching staff around him all these years, yet it took him this long to do something Kobe has done multiple times.

Aww honey Duncan> Kobe. Too bad for u:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Why would anyone compare a top ten player in Duncan, to Kobe..

No one is besides Kobe fanboys:(
Why would anyone compare a potential top 5 player of all time (Duncan) to a guy most consider 12th on the goat list at best?:oldlol:

[K Xerxes]

Wow, I have to say it's news to me that making consecutive finals is the overarching criteria for greatness. Apparently it doesn't matter that Duncan led his team to four championships, while Kobe only led his to two.

[LBJ4MVP23]

Kobe first ring he was a joke.

Kobe second ring he was legit, but Shaq was a real force.

Kobe third ring was a rig job by the refs, recognized by the national media and confirmed by Tim Donaghy.

3 rings, zero finals MVPS.

In Kobe's next 2 he had a major injury to the Celtics then had Pau and Artest bail him out hard core. The kobe rebound, I shoot and you get the rebound and easy basket because I will 100% miss was in full effect.

Kobe is amazing, a top 10-12 player al time, but he is a product of his environment as much as his skill. He never took a mediocre cast to greatness and was Pippen light for his first 3. Out of the entire top 10-12 kobe is last on the list of who you could place on nearly any team and make them a championship threat, even his prime. You know like when he was missing the playoffs as "the heir apparent to jordan."

Do we consider Wade to be on the verge of being 2 rings from matching Jordan if they three peat and LBJ wins FMVP this year? All rings are not equal, finals MVP is whats important and kobe was gifted 1 and shut out in the first 3.

[T_L_P]

But Duncan needed 3 HOF teammates total (Robinson, Parker, Manu) to win his 4 chips, while Kobe only needed 2 (Shaq, Gasol) for his 5.

Robinson from 98-03: 14 / 10 / 2 / 1 / 2
Shaquille from 97-04: 28 / 13 / 3 / 1 / 3

Stop with these nonsensical comparisons. Shaq's production in '00 was almost better than Manu's, Parker's and Robinson's in '03 combined. :facepalm

[SCdac]

Going to be a looooong summer for Kobe fanatics

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/06/04/060413-NBA-You-Lose-Kobe-PI-AA_20130604235246227_660_320.JPG

[JohnFreeman]

Kobes salary

http://cdn.pjmedia.com/lifestyle/files/2012/07/jokerburningmoney.jpeg

[T_L_P]

Kobes salary

http://cdn.pjmedia.com/lifestyle/files/2012/07/jokerburningmoney.jpeg

That picture really makes me want to watch the film again. I don't think I've seen it since its release.

[DMV2]

Going to be a looooong summer for Kobe fanatics

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/06/04/060413-NBA-You-Lose-Kobe-PI-AA_20130604235246227_660_320.JPG

I love it! Even though both are already better than Kob in my opinion.

[Mr Feeny]

Going to be a looooong summer for Kobe fanatics

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/06/04/060413-NBA-You-Lose-Kobe-PI-AA_20130604235246227_660_320.JPG
:oldlol:

[JohnFreeman]

Going to be a looooong summer for Kobe fanatics

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/06/04/060413-NBA-You-Lose-Kobe-PI-AA_20130604235246227_660_320.JPG
:roll:

[NumberSix]

It took Duncan 2 years to win a FMVP. How many did it take Kobe?

[JohnFreeman]

That picture really makes me want to watch the film again. I don't think I've seen it since its release.
http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/29/files/2013/02/Kawhi-So-Serious.jpg

[DMV2]

It took Duncan 2 years to win a FMVP. How many did it take Kobe?
Don't hurt em like that, The Six Numba! :oldlol:

[Springsteen]

honestly i dont think kobe will be winning anymore rings

on the other hand i think if duncan/pop dont retire this year they could possibly make the finals AGAIN next season

[HOoopCityJones]

Don't hurt em like that, The Six Numba! :oldlol:

Get off his nuts bitch.

[Mure]

Duncan > Kobe.

[DonDadda59]

So it's come to this, huh Bean stans?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFZrzg62Zj0

[DMAVS41]

Going to be a looooong summer for Kobe fanatics

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/06/04/060413-NBA-You-Lose-Kobe-PI-AA_20130604235246227_660_320.JPG

Hahahah. This.

Duncan is quietly having another great playoffs....perhaps even better than last year.

He's at 17/9/2 56% TS 122 otrg 104 drtg

Last year he did 18/10/2 52% TS 106 ortg 98 drtg


He's gotten easier looks this year than he did last year so the offensive rating is a little inflated, but he's also had to face some monster offensive teams and he's been out there balling his ass off defensively.

God I hope he wins it this year. Hopefully Parker/Manu/Green won't fall apart again...

[guy]

It took Kobe 12 years to win an MVP and 13 years to win a Finals MVP.

He's top 10 all-time and everything, but it's crazy that he took so long when it took Duncan only 5 years to win an MVP and 2 years to win a Finals MVP .

[Relinquish]

Butthurt LeBron Stans, cause their boy already has as many Finals losses than Kobe does in half as many seasons in the league.

Deep down it must stink like high hell to them that LeBron is dominating the weakest era of competition in the post-Jordan times where their biggest obstacle is an aging Spurs core who's transcendent player is 38, and way past his prime, and who haven't won anything 7 seasons. And that the "2nd best player in the league" is a beta who might not even be the best player on his own team.


:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

11 is half of 18?

[Dbrog]

Kobe first ring he was a joke.

Kobe second ring he was legit, but Shaq was a real force.

Kobe third ring was a rig job by the refs, recognized by the national media and confirmed by Tim Donaghy.

3 rings, zero finals MVPS.

In Kobe's next 2 he had a major injury to the Celtics then had Pau and Artest bail him out hard core. The kobe rebound, I shoot and you get the rebound and easy basket because I will 100% miss was in full effect.

Kobe is amazing, a top 10-12 player al time, but he is a product of his environment as much as his skill. He never took a mediocre cast to greatness and was Pippen light for his first 3. Out of the entire top 10-12 kobe is last on the list of who you could place on nearly any team and make them a championship threat, even his prime. You know like when he was missing the playoffs as "the heir apparent to jordan."

Do we consider Wade to be on the verge of being 2 rings from matching Jordan if they three peat and LBJ wins FMVP this year? All rings are not equal, finals MVP is whats important and kobe was gifted 1 and shut out in the first 3.

dat ether doe! :bowdown: :applause: :rockon:

[ImKobe]

Kobe first ring he was a joke.

Kobe second ring he was legit, but Shaq was a real force.

Kobe third ring was a rig job by the refs, recognized by the national media and confirmed by Tim Donaghy.

3 rings, zero finals MVPS.

In Kobe's next 2 he had a major injury to the Celtics then had Pau and Artest bail him out hard core. The kobe rebound, I shoot and you get the rebound and easy basket because I will 100% miss was in full effect.

Kobe is amazing, a top 10-12 player al time, but he is a product of his environment as much as his skill. He never took a mediocre cast to greatness and was Pippen light for his first 3. Out of the entire top 10-12 kobe is last on the list of who you could place on nearly any team and make them a championship threat, even his prime. You know like when he was missing the playoffs as "the heir apparent to jordan."

Do we consider Wade to be on the verge of being 2 rings from matching Jordan if they three peat and LBJ wins FMVP this year? All rings are not equal, finals MVP is whats important and kobe was gifted 1 and shut out in the first 3.

In 2000 Kobe showed up in Game 7 of WCF and led the Lakers in 4 categories while Shaq put up 18/9, leading the Lakers to a huge comeback in the 4th quarter, was injured in the Finals but showed up again in the biggest game of the series, Game 4 OT, no Shaq, Kobe just took over and dominated the Pacers on the road on a bum ankle.

2001 Kobe led the Playoffs in WS and had just as high WS/48 as Shaq and he outplayed Shaq in the Western Conference Playoffs, b2b 45+ point 10+ rebound games, Shaq was a sidekick until he faced a Finals team that just had no one to put on him

2002 the Lakers earned their championship by showing up in crunch time (Robert Horry three, Kobe making clutch ft after clutch ft while Queens missed a ton of freebies in close games, Peja airballing a WIDE OPEN corner three to win the game :biggums:)

2009 Kobe dominates the Playoffs, only player to put up 30+ ppg 5+ rpg 7+ apg in an NBA Finals series since MJ in 91

2010 Kobe dominates the Western Conference Playoffs, is solid through games 1-6 in the Finals, had a bad shooting night in Game 7 but still dropped 23 & 15 and hit the FTs to ice the series and win his 5th.

Duncan meanwhile has never won b2b, was 2nd fiddle to a system PG in 07 Finals and choked in a Game 7 of the 2013 NBA Finals. Kobe holds a 4-2 lead over Duncan in the Playoffs in head-to-head series match-ups, last time they met, Kobe dominated the defending champs in 5 games.

:kobe:

[T_L_P]

I

Duncan meanwhile has never won b2b, was 2nd fiddle to a system PG in 07 Finals and choked in a Game 7 of the 2013 NBA Finals. Kobe holds a 4-2 lead over Duncan in the Playoffs in head-to-head series match-ups, last time they met, Kobe dominated the defending champs in 5 games.

:kobe:

Duncan dropped, what, 24/12 in that game 7? He choked that shot, but he didn't choke the game. I mean, can you list me all the 38-year-olds who were the best players on their team in a Finals series?

The whole b2b thing just magnifies the fact that Duncan never clearly had the best team in the league, because he never got to play with another dominant player. He missed the Playoffs in 2000, I'm pretty sure the Lakers were favoured in 2004 (although Duncan definitely underperformed); he did everything he could in 2006 (he averaged 32/12/4/3/56% in the Dallas series), the Lakers were favoured over the Spurs in 2008, with Manu being hobbled.

Kobe repeating in '09 and '10 was mighty impressive, but it comes as no surprise that the Lakers three-peated in the early 2000s. Who else had a chance? Duncan and Derek Anderson? Duncan and 37-year-old David Robinson, who missed half the '02 series?

The amazing thing is that Duncan's h2h Playoff stats against Kobe are at least on par, if not better. With the Spurs being busy trying to stop the best player in the league, Kobe should have been able to dominate. Who other than Duncan were the Lakers' defense overtly concerned with? Derek Anderson was injured in '01, Parker was a scared rookie in '02. And even then those guys were not stars.

[ImKobe]

Duncan dropped, what, 24/12 in that game 7? He choked that shot, but he didn't choke the game. I mean, can you list me all the 38-year-olds who were the best players on their team in a Finals series?

The whole b2b thing just magnifies the fact that Duncan never clearly had the best team in the league, because he never got to play with another dominant player. He missed the Playoffs in 2000, I'm pretty sure the Lakers were favoured in 2004 (although Duncan definitely underperformed); he did everything he could in 2006 (he averaged 32/12/4/3/56% in the Dallas series), the Lakers were favoured over the Spurs in 2008, with Manu being hobbled.

Kobe repeating in '09 and '10 was mighty impressive, but it comes as no surprise that the Lakers three-peated in the early 2000s. Who else had a chance? Duncan and Derek Anderson? Duncan and 37-year-old David Robinson, who missed half the '02 series?

The amazing thing is that Duncan's h2h Playoff stats against Kobe are at least on par, if not better. With the Spurs being busy trying to stop the best player in the league, Kobe should have been able to dominate. Who other than Duncan were the Lakers' defense overtly concerned with? Derek Anderson was injured in '01, Parker was a scared rookie in '02. And even then those guys were not stars.

Duncan had his chances to repeat in 2004, 2006 & 2008. Spurs blew it in 04 & 06 and Kobe ripped the Spurs to shreds in 08 while Pau Gasol was medicore in that series.

Kobe's always been a spur killer. 2001 & 2008 series there's no debating that he outplayed Duncan head-to-head.

[T_L_P]

Duncan had his chances to repeat in 2004, 2006 & 2008. Spurs blew it in 04 & 06 and Kobe ripped the Spurs to shreds in 08 while Pau Gasol was medicore in that series.

Kobe's always been a spur killer. 2001 & 2008 series there's no debating that he outplayed Duncan head-to-head.

Like I said, Duncan legitimately under performed in '04, but what more could he have done in '06? And again, in 2008 Duncan was 1) past his prime and 2) his team's second best player was hobbled.

Duncan's h2h stats are better or on par with Kobe's, even though Duncan was always the focus of the Lakers' defense (with the slight exception of '08, though Pau was playing some incredible defense that series) whilst the Spurs were more concerned with the greatest player in the league (Shaq).

So Duncan outperformed Kobe in '99, '02 and '03, whilst Kobe outperformed Duncan in '01, '04 and '08. The difference is Kobe was favoured in four of those series (and won three) whilst Duncan was favoured in two (and won two).

[brantonli]

So, you put Tim Duncan above Kobe Bryant, yet:

Duncan never won back-to-back
Kobe has a 4-2 record against Tim Duncan in the Playoffs
5 >>> 4

Since when did back to back become such a huge factor? Personally I still have Kobe above Duncan, because of 5 rings and a legendary scoring history, but if Duncan wins another chip then they are at least on the same level, and Duncan has a legit claim to greatest power forward of all time to boot.

[Dbrog]

Duncan had his chances to repeat in 2004, 2006 & 2008. Spurs blew it in 04 & 06 and Kobe ripped the Spurs to shreds in 08 while Pau Gasol was medicore in that series.

Kobe's always been a spur killer. 2001 & 2008 series there's no debating that he outplayed Duncan head-to-head.

Kobe has definitely been a spurs killer...because the spurs have never had an elite wing to guard him and punish him on the other end. Leonard is probably the closest they've had. Bruce was good defensively but Kobe could just take defense off the entire game since Bowen had no offensive gm at all.

Not really sure what difference it makes that Kobe is a Spurs killer anyway? Dwill always killed CP but CP was still the better player. '04 Lakers are probably the most stacked team that I can think of in the past 30 years. No shame in losing to them. As stated, in '06 Duncan was beast and only lost due to an idiotic role player foul (not Duncan's fault). '08 Kobe was going beastmode and had one of his best seasons. Didn't help that Duncan literally was the entire Spurs defense (TONY FCKING PARKER had the 2nd most reb/gm in that series with 4!!! :facepalm )

[T_L_P]

Since when did back to back become such a huge factor? Personally I still have Kobe above Duncan, because of 5 rings and a legendary scoring history, but if Duncan wins another chip then they are at least on the same level, and Duncan has a legit claim to greatest power forward of all time to boot.

Do you mean if Duncan wins he might become the greatest PF ever, or that because he already is he might have a claim against Kobe (the second greatest SG)?

If it's the former, I don't know why one extra ring would change anything. He has more rings than every other top 5 PF combined.