If the Spurs win Duncan will have the same amount of rings as Kobe in less Finals

[Springsteen]

So if he if wins it'd go like this:

Duncan: 5 rings/6 finals, 2 MVP, 14 all-NBA, 14 all-NBA D.

Kobe: 5 rings/7 finals, 1 MVP, 15-all NBA, 12-all NBA D.

Would Duncan arguably be the better player than Kobe of their era?

http://static.foxsports.com/content/fscom/img/2013/06/04/060413-NBA-You-Lose-Kobe-PI-AA_20130604235246227_660_320.JPG

[Bandito]

Why is Kobe thinking of Lescrub when he has more rings than him?

[LBJ4MVP23]

Yes kobe should be dreaming of Horry since all rings are equal to kobetards.

Pippen = Jordan according to Kobe logic and both are dwarfed by the great Robert Horry.

[All Net]

Well as great as Duncan is, having pop his whole career is quite lucky to have happened.

[Bandito]

Well as great as Duncan is, having pop his whole career is quite lucky to have happened.
Well Kobe had PJ so is not like he didn't have a great coach. Duncan just had a better overall team for most of his career while Kobe was playing with sucky teammates for three years after 04.

[All Net]

Well Kobe had PJ so is not like he didn't have a great coach. Duncan just had a better overall team for most of his career while Kobe was playing with sucky teammates for three years after 04.

Indeed, but Duncan having Pop for his whole career has been huge. Been the difference really.

[annbafan]

You do understand that more finals trips is better?:D

[K Xerxes]

Stupid question. Duncan is already arguably better than Kobe. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. Another ring (and FMVP) just hammers it home more.

[miller-time]

Why is Kobe thinking of Lescrub when he has more rings than him?

Because he will most likely win FMVP, so he will have 3 to Kobe's 2. That will also put him in league with Shaq and Jordan as the only players to win 3 in a row.

[miles berg]

Duncan did it without Shaq there to carry him to 3 titles.

[coin24]

Much respect to Duncan, a true professional and competitor:cheers:
Hopefully the spurs wipe there asses with the heat:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

Well as great as Duncan is, having pop his whole career is quite lucky to have happened.


LMAO we can always rely on this guy for asinine bitter drivel:oldlol:

[NuggetsFan]

Well as great as Duncan is, having pop his whole career is quite lucky to have happened.

Evens out because Kobe's had L.A. You can't deny there willing to do whatever it takes to win. Alot of the success Duncan is having late in his career is due to his personality too. He's alright taking a back seat and fitting into the system. Not to mention there salaries, Kobe makes like what 20M more than Duncan this season? Doubt S.A would be cool with that.

As great as Pop is having a player like Duncan is why the Spurs have been able to do what they've done as opposed to teams like L.A with Shaq/Kobe. Duncan is currently reaping the benefits of being a low key guy who was cool with a reduced role/minutes the past few seasons. S.A is all about the "system" and Duncan is as large apart of that as anybody so hard to fault him or use it in comparisons like this.

I think Duncan is better, would rather his career too. Size is a massive factor in that. He can impact the game more with his size while scoring less than Kobe can. Smarter, less mistakes etc.

[Mr Feeny]

Evens out because Kobe's had L.A. You can't deny there willing to do whatever it takes to win. Alot of the success Duncan is having late in his career is due to his personality too. He's alright taking a back seat and fitting into the system. Not to mention there salaries, Kobe makes like what 20M more than Duncan this season? Doubt S.A would be cool with that.

As great as Pop is having a player like Duncan is why the Spurs have been able to do what they've done as opposed to teams like L.A with Shaq/Kobe. Duncan is currently reaping the benefits of being a low key guy who was cool with a reduced role/minutes the past few seasons. S.A is all about the "system" and Duncan is as large apart of that as anybody so hard to fault him or use it in comparisons like this.

I think Duncan is better, would rather his career too. Size is a massive factor in that. He can impact the game more with his size while scoring less than Kobe can. Smarter, less mistakes etc.

Exactly. Pretty much perfectly summed up.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Evens out because Kobe's had L.A. You can't deny there willing to do whatever it takes to win. Alot of the success Duncan is having late in his career is due to his personality too. He's alright taking a back seat and fitting into the system. Not to mention there salaries, Kobe makes like what 20M more than Duncan this season? Doubt S.A would be cool with that.

As great as Pop is having a player like Duncan is why the Spurs have been able to do what they've done as opposed to teams like L.A with Shaq/Kobe. Duncan is currently reaping the benefits of being a low key guy who was cool with a reduced role/minutes the past few seasons. S.A is all about the "system" and Duncan is as large apart of that as anybody so hard to fault him or use it in comparisons like this.

I think Duncan is better, would rather his career too. Size is a massive factor in that. He can impact the game more with his size while scoring less than Kobe can. Smarter, less mistakes etc.

I don't know how the guy with less rings and less finals appearances becomes the standard of how the guy with more rings and finals appearances should have played.

[Mr Feeny]

I don't know how the guy with less rings and less finals appearances becomes the standard of how the guy with more rings and finals appearances should have played.

Horry> Lebron by your definition?
Errr...yeahno:cheers:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Horry> Lebron by your definition?
Errr...yeahno:cheers:

Do the facts have to match the narratives or not? I don't recall anyone suggesting that Horry should have adopted a different personality, leadership style or way of playing the game.

[Mr Feeny]

Do the facts have to match the narratives or not? I don't recall anyone suggesting that Horry should have adopted a different personality, leadership style or way of playing the game.

Aww poor baby confused:lol
That's because finals appearances and rings aren't the standard. If they were then someone like Horry would be considered greater than Lebron and Scottie Pippen would be dead even with Michael Jordan.

MVPs and finals MVPs usually give a better indication of who the leader/top star of the team was. A ring for that man is considered more valuable than a role player or supporting star's ring.

That's why Duncan is ranked higher than Kobe by most people to the confusion of most Kobe Bryant fanboys on here.
Cheers fanboy

[NuggetsFan]

I don't know how the guy with less rings and less finals appearances becomes the standard of how the guy with more rings and finals appearances should have played.

I was responding to somebody using Pop as Duncan being "lucky". Duncan is the standard for me because he went to a market like S.A and really put them on the map. Got them there first ring and hasn't looked back and has helped keep them relevant no matter what he needed to do. Pop, Manu, Parker etc. have all played massive parts as well as there incredible scouting but Duncan has pretty much done everything asked of him.

I mean S.A had 6 players over 10ppg this year. Duncan took 12 shots. Now obviously he's older and Kobe's the far superior scorer nowadays when he was healthy but do you think Pop's system works for him right now with what S.A is trying to do? Probably not, atleast not as successful. So I don't see why somebody would use that in this comparison. Size plays a factor too because Duncan plays a big part in S.A being consistently good defensively more so than Kobe would.

Apples to oranges really, just prefer Duncan. Like I said before, size plays a part in that. A single ring count means nothing to me without any context and there's so many variables. Both players have won and found success so not a knock on Kobe.

[Springsteen]

I don't know how the guy with less rings and less finals appearances becomes the standard of how the guy with more rings and finals appearances should have played.

more finals mvps :confusedshrug:

[Mr Feeny]

more finals mvps :confusedshrug:

This is too confusing to him:oldlol:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Aww poor baby confused:lol
That's because finals appearances and rings aren't the standard. If they were then someone like Horry would be considered greater than Lebron and Scottie Pippen would be dead even with Michael Jordan.

MVPs and finals MVPs usually give a better indication of who the leader/top star of the team was. A ring for that man is considered more valuable than a role player or supporting star's ring.

That's why Duncan is ranked higher than Kobe by most people to the confusion of most Kobe Bryant fanboys on here.
Cheers fanboy

So the real sign of how superstars should play is gunning for a regular season award and/or a final series one. And that relates to "teamball" and sacrifice how exactly?? Hope you didn't hurt your back moving those goalposts. :oldlol:

[DMV2]

Indeed, but Duncan having Pop for his whole career has been huge. Been the difference really.
Not you too, All Net. Say it isn't so.... :facepalm

[NuggetsFan]

Do the facts have to match the narratives or not? I don't recall anyone suggesting that Horry should have adopted a different personality, leadership style or way of playing the game.

I wasn't putting Kobe's leadership or personality in question. All tho clashing with Shaq, off court issue affecting his game that one year, not being able to take a backseat in the finals that year vs the Pistons etc. are things that probably don't ever happen with Duncan.

More about propping Duncan up in those areas because something mentioned how lucky he was to have Pop. It's a skill in it self to be able to mesh with a coach as long as he has and adapt to the different things asked of him. The Pop/Duncan tandem should be seen as a positive for both sides and nothing more. Not "lucky" because what Duncan has done in S.A is something alot of guys couldn't have done, or probably wanted to do.

[DMV2]

Duncan isn't the greatest PF ever because of Pop. Pop didn't become one of the greatest (GOAT coach by some opinions) coaches because of Duncan either.

They both started their NBA *careers TOGETHER in 1997-98. *Pop's first head coaching job and Duncan's first season.

[Mr Feeny]

So the real sign of how superstars should play is gunning fode a toon award and/or a final series one. And that relates to "teamball" and sacrifice how exactly?? Hope you didn't hurt your back moving those goalposts. :oldlol:


Awww you poor confused fanboy. Let me explain:
No the real sign of superstars is LEADING teams to titles hence finals mvps come into considerdation:cheers:

We understand thay this concept is confusing for you:oldlol:

Tough luck though. There's a reason why Duncan is ranked ahead of Kobe by most people and it reflects our understanding of the 'signs' of leadership rather than yours:bowdown:

[Yao Ming's Foot]

I was responding to somebody using Pop as Duncan being "lucky". Duncan is the standard for me because he went to a market like S.A and really put them on the map. Got them there first ring and hasn't looked back and has helped keep them relevant no matter what he needed to do. Pop, Manu, Parker etc. have all played massive parts as well as there incredible scouting but Duncan has pretty much done everything asked of him.

I mean S.A had 6 players over 10ppg this year. Duncan took 12 shots. Now obviously he's older and Kobe's the far superior scorer nowadays when he was healthy but do you think Pop's system works for him right now with what S.A is trying to do? Probably not, atleast not as successful. So I don't see why somebody would use that in this comparison. Size plays a factor too because Duncan plays a big part in S.A being consistently good defensively more so than Kobe would.

Apples to oranges really, just prefer Duncan. Like I said before, size plays a part in that. A single ring count means nothing to me without any context and there's so many variables. Both players have won and found success so not a knock on Kobe.

Given the makeup of their roster which Lakers teams should have allowed Kobe the priveledge of taking on Duncan's reduced scoring/minute load while remaining a championship contender?

[Mr Feeny]

Given the makeup of their roster which Lakers teams should have allowed Kobe the priveledge of taking on Duncan's reduced scoring/minute load while remaining a championship contender?

Duncan anchors the Spurs' entire defense. Kobe doesn't do the same for LA. Do we really need to break even this down to you?

Do you know anything about basketball?
How old are you son?

[BigTicket]

5 rings in 7 finals is better than 5 rings in 6 finals.

Why do idiots around here think that losing in the finals is worse than losing before the finals ? It's like arguing that it's better to miss the podium, than it is to get the silver medal.

[NumberSix]

There would be nothing "arguable" about it.

[NumberSix]

5 rings in 7 finals is better than 5 rings in 6 finals.

Why do idiots around here think that losing in the finals is worse than losing before the finals ?
Because idiots like Stephen A. Smith keep saying it on TV.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Awww you poor confused fanboy. Let me explain:
No the real sign of superstars is LEADING teams to titles hence finals mvps come into considerdation:cheers:

We understand thay this concept is confusing for you:oldlol:

Tough luck though. There's a reason why Duncan is ranked ahead of Kobe by most people and it reflects our understanding of the 'signs' of leadership rather than yours:bowdown:

Was Tim Duncan lacking leadership when Tony Parker took home the Finals MVP?

[T_L_P]

5 rings in 7 finals is better than 5 rings in 6 finals.

Why do idiots around here think that losing in the finals is worse than losing before the finals ? It's like arguing that it's better to miss the podium, than it is to get the silver medal.

I agree. But 5 with 3 Finals MVPs in 6 Finals appearances > 5 with 2 Finals MVPs in 7 Finals appearances.

[NuggetsFan]

Given the makeup of their roster which Lakers teams should have allowed Kobe the priveledge of taking on Duncan's reduced scoring/minute load while remaining a championship contender?

Dude. Are you even reading what I'm saying? I was responding to a comment made that Duncan was "lucky" to have Pop in this comparison. Of course Kobe with the Lakers right now doesn't need to take a reduced role, with the Spurs I'm going to go ahead and say Pop and co probably would have tried resting him the past few years tho. He wouldn't be asked to shoot 20x a game in there system right now. Could he have adapted? Maybe. I don't think the fit is the same, I don't think Kobe could have done what Duncan has and vise versa. I'd rather have what Duncan has done :confusedshrug:

Different players, different situations. One shouldn't be considered "lucky" or have him took down a notch for adapting to what's asked of him. Pop/Duncan is a positive for both sides, not a hindrance to Duncan in a comparison like this.

Kobe's contract is a killer tho. With all the injuries that'll make it hard for L.A to contend going forward as he continues to age.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Duncan anchors the Spurs' entire defense. Kobe doesn't do the same for LA. Do we really need to break even this down to you?

Do you know anything about basketball?
How old are you son?

If Duncan was equally or more important to the Spurs defense as Kobe is to the team's offense wouldn't it make sense that he played a similar amount of minutes if not more?

[Mr Feeny]

Was Tim Duncan lacking leadership when Tony Parker took home the Finals MVP?Not necessarily but Duncan is primarily a defensive player and so is more likely to be looked over by voters who tend to go for pure offemsive^high scoring players.

Having said that, Duncan has 3 finals MVPs which is secomd most all time behind Jordan's 6 along with his 2 regular season awards.

Looking at their PER from 1998-2007, Duncan dwarfs Kobe as well if that's the route you'd rather go by - stats as opposed to accolades.

If it's the eye test, then my eye test tells me that Duncan is 5 times the player Kobe is.

We can do this anyway you want.
There is a reason the majority agree with me in that Duncan > Kobe all time while you're among the confused minority.

Cheers

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Not necessarily but Duncan is primarily a defensive player and so is more likely to be looked over by voters who tend to go for pure offemsive^high scoring players.

Having said that, Duncan has 3 finals MVPs which is secomd most all time behind Jordan's 6 along with his 2 regular season awards.

Looking at their PER from 1998-2007, Duncan dwarfs Kobe as well if that's the route you'd rather go by - stats as opposed to accolades.

If it's the eye test, then my eye test tells me that Duncan is 5 times the player Kobe is.

We can do this anyway you want.
There is a reason the majority agree with me in that Duncan > Kobe all time while you're among the confused minority.

Cheers

I can't help but be confused on one hand Finals MVP is all that counts and in the next sentence it's flawed because it's biased towards offensive players. There is no shame in being lesser than Tony Parker. I know it's not like being lesser than prime Shaq in your early 20s but he's still a HOF guard and certainly better than any guard Kobe ever had on his team.

[Mr Feeny]

I can't help but be confused on one hand Finals MVP is all that counts and in the next sentence it's flawed because it's biased towards offensive players. There is no shame in being lesser than Tony Parker. I know it's not like being lesser than prime Shaq in your early 20s but he's still a HOF guard and certainly better than any guard Kobe ever had on his team.

No one said finals MVP is ALL that counts?:confusedshrug: :no:

But yes, more finals mvps and regular season mvps as well better stats make you a better player.

Like I said, you are arguing against an overwhelming majority because almost everybody has Duncan ahead of Kobe all time:cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Dude. Are you even reading what I'm saying? I was responding to a comment made that Duncan was "lucky" to have Pop in this comparison. Of course Kobe with the Lakers right now doesn't need to take a reduced role, with the Spurs I'm going to go ahead and say Pop and co probably would have tried resting him the past few years tho. He wouldn't be asked to shoot 20x a game in there system right now. Could he have adapted? Maybe. I don't think the fit is the same, I don't think Kobe could have done what Duncan has and vise versa. I'd rather have what Duncan has done :confusedshrug:

Different players, different situations. One shouldn't be considered "lucky" or have him took down a notch for adapting to what's asked of him. Pop/Duncan is a positive for both sides, not a hindrance to Duncan in a comparison like this.

Kobe's contract is a killer tho. With all the injuries that'll make it hard for L.A to contend going forward as he continues to age.

Fully agreed there. He wrecked them.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

No one said finals MVP is ALL that counts?:confusedshrug: :no:

But yes, more finals mvps and regular season mvps as well better stats make you a better player.

Like I said, you are arguing against an overwhelming majority because almost everybody has Duncan ahead of Kobe all time:cheers:

If that was true why does this thread even exist?

[Mr Feeny]

If that was true why does this thread even exist?

The OP wants to bait trolls? You seem wound up for example?:lol

[DMV2]

5 rings in 7 finals is better than 5 rings in 6 finals.

Why do idiots around here think that losing in the finals is worse than losing before the finals ? It's like arguing that it's better to miss the podium, than it is to get the silver medal.
5/7 isn't better than 5/6. It's actually equal because 20 years from now nobody will really cares about the loses. They care about what you've won. Do people talk about Magic losing in 4 Finals? A very, very, very few if any.

What also counts 20 years from now are MVP's, F-MVP's and all-time records.

That's why MJ vs KAJ for #1 is a good argument.

Kobetards should be grateful that Kobe got 5 rings(3 freebies given by Shaq) and 81 points against a non-playoff team from Canada.

[DMV2]

Even more grateful that Kobe didn't go to prison for raping a white girl. Otherwise, no back-to-back....

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The OP wants to bait trolls? You seem wound up for example?:lol

Projecting much? I point out the absurd logic flaws of Kobe haters for fun. Including a bunch of emoticons to compensate for your lack of material doesn't do anything for me.

[Mr Feeny]

Projecting much? I point out the absurd logic flaws of Kobe haters for fun. Including a bunch of emoticons to compensate for your lack of material doesn't do anything for me.

Says the man who hasn't addressed a single point I made:oldlol:
Carry on labeling everyone who has Duncan ahead of Kobe all time a Kobe "hater". You're just adorable:lol

Like I said, the majority have Duncan and Lebron > Kobe all time.
If you don't, that's great. Don't label everyone haters because they don't agree with your absurd assertions. Cheers

[r0drig0lac]

Stupid question. Duncan is already arguably better than Kobe. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant or trolling. Another ring (and FMVP) just hammers it home more.
this, no question

[Mr Feeny]

this, no question

Exactly, try telling that to these confused tots (such as mingfoot):D

[TheCorporation]

Duncan did it without Shaq there to carry him to 3 titles.

Yep, he instead uses HOF David Robinson and future HOF Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli :lol

People do realize that Championships are won as a team effort, right?

[Mr Feeny]

Yep, he instead uses HOF David Robinson and future HOF Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli :lol

People do realize that Championships are won as a team effort, right?

That's right. And that is why Kobe's 5 don't mean he's ahead of Duncan with his 4.

Glad you understand:cheers:

[T_L_P]

Yep, he instead uses HOF David Robinson and future HOF Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli :lol

People do realize that Championships are won as a team effort, right?

Shaq in 2000: 30.7 / 15.4 / 3.1

Parker, Manu, Robinson in 2003 (combined): 31.9 / 13.2 / 6.0

One HoFer almost outproduced the combined efforts of three.

Stop making such stupid comparisons. Shaq was twice as good as anyone Duncan got to play with.

[oh the horror]

Duncan anchors the Spurs' entire defense. Kobe doesn't do the same for LA. Do we really need to break even this down to you?

Do you know anything about basketball?
How old are you son?



Are you on your period or something? Try having a convo without acting like a b*tch about it dude. Jesus Christ.

[DMV2]

Yep, he instead uses HOF David Robinson and future HOF Tony Parker and Manu Ginobli :lol

People do realize that Championships are won as a team effort, right?
Not in the NBA, though. It's more like 75% superstar, 25% team game. It's a reason we're so obsessed with Top 10 this, Top 10 that.

Duncan carried his entire team in 1999. Then carried a retiring D-Rob, a rookie Parker and a sophomore Manu for a second title. Then added a couple more rings collectively as a team.

Duncan carries his teammates. Kobe gets carried by Shaq or Pau or referees.

[Mr Feeny]

Are you on your period or something? Try having a convo without acting like a b*tch about it dude. Jesus Christ.

You seem wound up?:lol

Just stating facts:cheers:

[HOoopCityJones]

You guys are so full of shit.

You say Kobe's record in the Finals compared to Duncan (with or with Shaq) doesn't matter , yet you'll turn around and use the rings count and his Finals appearance as an argument of why he's better than Kobe, especially if he beats Lebron this year.

And Shaq winning FMVP over Kobe is the hugest dent in his career accomplishments, yet it doesn't matter that Tony won over Timmy in 07 , during arguably his prime , that doesn't matter either.

Kobe haters are desperate and contradictory.

You say Duncan is better than Kobe already , yet you all are foaming at the mouth for him to win another ring. It shouldn't matter if he's already better dumb asses , half of you are full of shit.

[Mr Feeny]

You guys are so full of shit.

You say Kobe's record in the Finals compared to Duncan (with or with Shaq) doesn't matter , yet you'll turn around and use the rings count and his Finals appearance as an argument of why he's better than Kobe, especially if he beats Lebron this year.

And Shaq winning FMVP over Kobe is the hugest dent in his career accomplishments, yet it doesn't matter that Tony won over Timmy in 07 , during arguably his prime , that doesn't matter either.

Kobe haters are desperate and contradictory.

You say Duncan is better than Kobe already , yet you all are foaming at the mouth for him to win another ring. It shouldn't matter if he's already better dumb asses , half of you are full of shit.

Aha. Let's make this simple for your adorable confused mind.

3 FMVPs > 2 FMVPs
2 MVPs > 1 MVP

:D

[Basketball Fan]

Spurs fans are why I don't care for the Spurs.

I also hate the Heat.

Man this sucks why can't a team I like be in this thing.

The Mavs were the last one.

[HOoopCityJones]

Aha. Let's make this simple for your adorable confused mind.

3 FMVPs > 2 FMVPs
2 MVPs > 1 MVP

:D

Ha , lets make this simple for your bitchass.

Get out ya house, go get some coochie. :cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

While I agree that Duncan is already >> Kobe, making it to LESS finals is not a plus :wtf:

[ArbitraryWater]

Well as great as Duncan is, having pop his whole career is quite lucky to have happened.

:rolleyes:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=339428

Read through the posts in that thread, and be educated..

I'm sure Duncan being who he is, had nothing to do with how long Pop sticked around, eh?

[mehyaM24]

Aha. Let's make this simple for your adorable confused mind.

3 FMVPs > 2 FMVPs
2 MVPs > 1 MVP

:D

kareem,magic,shaq,kobe > duncan,wade

[mehyaM24]

Exactly, try telling that to these confused tots (such as mingfoot):D

lebron > jordan

[Mr Feeny]

Ha , lets make this simple for your bitchass.

Get out ya house, go get some coochie. :cheers:

Ad hominem? What an adowable cute munchkin!

[Mr Feeny]

lebron > jordan

Awww playing me at my own game? Their both》 Kobe:lol

[mehyaM24]

Awww playing me at my own game? Their both》 Kobe:lol

lebron is better than kobe and definitely better than jordon

enjoy the 3-peat brah :cheers:

[Hey Yo]

Why is Kobe thinking of Lescrub when he has more rings than him?
Because he doesn't. Kobe's record is 2-1 in the Finals as the lead guy. Same as LeBron right now.

[Mr Feeny]

lebron is better than kobe and definitely better than jordon

enjoy the 3-peat brah :cheers:

Glad I got through to you and you admit LeBron 》 Kobe:bowdown:

Thx bro. I'll be happy either way. Not necessarily goinf for one team or the other. Just hoping for a good series:cheers:

[mehyaM24]

Glad I got through to you and you admit LeBron 》 Kobe:bowdown:

Thx bro. I'll be happy either way. Not necessarily goinf for one team or the other. Just hoping for a good series:cheers:

you are preaching to the choir. lebron has been better than kobe for about 8 years now....this is common knowledge

but yes, im glad i got you to quote my post, in fullfullment, that lebron is superior to both. :rockon:

lebron > kobe
lebron defnitely over jordon

say it with me brah...

[Mr Feeny]

you are preaching to the choir. lebron has been better than kobe for about 8 years now....this is common knowledge

but yes, im glad i got you to quote my post, in fullfullment, that lebron is superior to both. :rockon:

lebron > kobe
lebron defnitely over jordon

say it with me brah...

Fully agreed that Lebron has been better than Kobe for the last eight years and might go down as GOAT.

Glad I've educated you:applause:

[mehyaM24]

Fully agreed that Lebron has been better than Kobe for the last eight years and might go down as GOAT.

Glad I've educated you:applause:

thank you for quoting my post again. lebron IS superior to both brodie :cheers:

this lesson was free of charge btw

[ArbitraryWater]

I dont think this retard realizes who he's talking to :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

im glad you quoted my post again. lebron is superior to both :cheers:

this lesson was free of charge btw

lmfaoooo


bro, duncan > kobe though.. gotta change that :D

[mehyaM24]

lmfaoooo


bro, duncan > kobe though.. gotta change that :D

duncan is massively overrated, possibly more than stringbean, but you're right. excuse the typo my friend.

my all time rankings aren't dependent on ring counting either. :cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

thank you for quoting my post again. lebron IS superior to both brodie :cheers:

this lesson was free of charge btw

Aww honey don't try to outwit me. You're an amateur:lol

[STATUTORY]

:facepalm, the goat list isn't ranked by number of rings. Duncan ain't near Kobe when it comes to culture impact

[Mr Feeny]

:facepalm, the goat list isn't ranked by number of rings. Duncan ain't near Kobe when it comes to culture impact

:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

17> 13
4 balon d'ors > 2
Bobby Charlton > Franz Beckenbaur
British women 》》》》》》》 Smelly unshaved Germanites:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm, the goat list isn't ranked by number of rings. Duncan ain't near Kobe when it comes to culture impact

Cultural Impact?

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Lindsay-Lohan-Spits-Out-Drink.gif

[STATUTORY]

:oldlol:
just real talk homie, people will talk about Kobe's feats decades from now whereas Duncan will fade into obscurity like Moses Malone

81 is forever

this is not to mention Kobe's impact on fashion, music, the very fabric of american culture. Different stratospheres man

[mehyaM24]

17> 13
4 balon d'ors > 2
Bobby Charlton > Franz Beckenbaur
British women 》》》》》》》 Smelly unshaved Germanites:lol

dilbert quoting another post of mine? :applause:






























call me Paul Morphy…..cause I just checkmated your fat ass

[Mr Feeny]

Cultural Impact?

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Lindsay-Lohan-Spits-Out-Drink.gif

This ph@ggot is a Lindsay Lohan fan boy:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

rent free in ****** heads :oldlol:

rent free baby :pimp:

[Mr Feeny]

just real talk homie, people will talk about Kobe's feats decades from now whereas Duncan will fade into obscurity like Moses Malone

81 is forever

this is not to mention Kobe's impact on fashion, music, the very fabric of american culture. Different stratospheres man

My brah, even the German is owning you. I'd pack my bags and go home. It's ova my brah.

[Mr Feeny]

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]dilbert quoting another post of mine? :applause:












call me Paul Morphy

[mehyaM24]

Aww poor baby. Quoting me again and then saying something weird:lol

you tooted? lmfaooo

[Mr Feeny]

you tooted? lmfaooo

Aww how cute he continues:lol

[HOoopCityJones]

Ad hominem? What an adowable cute munchkin!

So you serious with all of that bitchass baby talk I read you strutting around with?

I knew you was a ho-cake. :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

So you serious with all of that bitchass baby talk I read you strutting around with?

I knew you was a ho-cake. :oldlol:

Awww here comes another Kotard:lol
You guys are too cute!

[HOoopCityJones]

Awww here comes another Kotard:lol
You guys are too cute!

Look bruh , your rap is tired no one thinks this little charade of yours is cool , you just sound like a bitch. :confusedshrug:

You give Feeny a bad name tbh.

[WindmiLL]

this is not to mention Kobe's impact on fashion, music, the very fabric of american culture. Different stratospheres man


Just when I thought I've heard all from kobe stans....

[mehyaM24]

Aww how cute he continues:lol

what your mom said when i ejaculated right between her eyes :rockon:

[ArbitraryWater]

Look bruh , your rap is tired no one thinks this little charade of yours is cool , you just sound like a bitch. :confusedshrug:

You give Feeny a bad name tbh.

Agreed... Not even fellow heat fans like him :lol

Or whatever team he roots for..

[Mr Feeny]

Look bruh , your rap is tired no one thinks this little charade of yours is cool , you just sound like a bitch. :confusedshrug:

You give Feeny a bad name tbh.

Awww glad you Kobtards are shook:lol
Hope I ain't livin in y'al heads rent free:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Aww how cute he continues:lol


what your mom said when i ejaculated right between her eyes


:roll: :roll:

[HOoopCityJones]

Y'all letting STATUTORY mind **** you with that superior headgamephuck.

Lance Stephenson level trollery.

But I thought it was obvious Kobe was more culturally relevant , unles someone really wants to make a case for Duncan? *waits*

[ArbitraryWater]

Y'all letting STATUTORY mind **** you with that superior headgamephuck.

Lance Stephenson level trollery.

But I thought it was obvious Kobe was more culturally relevant , unles someone really wants to make a case for Duncan? *waits*

Nah.. the problem is just cultural impact has very little to do with on court play :lol

I mean, David Beckham is probably top 10-15 considering "cultural impact"... but hes not even top 50 all time.

[Mr Feeny]

Agreed... Not even fellow heat fans like him :lol

Or whatever team he roots for..

Oh not a heat fan:no: But imm glad ur annoyed:oldlol:
Btw:

17》13
4 balon d'ors > 2
Bobby Charlton > Franz Beckenbaur
British women 》》》》》》》 Smelly unshaved Germanites

:applause:

[HOoopCityJones]

Awww glad you Kobtards are shook:lol
Hope I ain't livin in y'al heads rent free:lol

Ni99a , the only thing thats shook is your tired ass act, now go home sip outta sippy cups or whatever weirdos like you and Jameerthefear be up to throwing darts at Kobe blow up doll. I haven't seen you make one post without KB's name up your ass.

[Mr Feeny]

Nah.. the problem is just cultural impact has very little to do with on court play :lol

I mean, David Beckham is probably top 10-15 considering "cultural impact"... but hes not even top 50 all time.How sweet. A german pretrnding to understand football:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

How sweet. A german pretrnding to understand football:lol

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/s4s/image/1395/35/1395359322398.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

Ni99a , the only thing thats shook is your tired ass act, now go home sip outta sippy cups or whatever weirdos like you and Jameerthefear be up to throwing darts at Kobe blow up doll. I haven't seen you make one post without KB's name up your ass.

More ad hominems? :roll:
I definitely am not a "ni99a" either. Bye ni99a

[HOoopCityJones]

Nah.. the problem is just cultural impact has very little to do with on court play :lol

I mean, David Beckham is probably top 10-15 considering "cultural impact"... but hes not even top 50 all time.

Nah, nah, ni99a , don't try to switch now the reaction to his statement was as if Duncan somehow had a more relevant impact on American culture than Kobe. Guess some of these chumpola's must of forgot we ain't talking about LBJ or MJ huh?

Get your trolls straight in your rent free living Kobe minds.

Step it up gents.

[Mr Feeny]

https://img.4plebs.org/boards/s4s/image/1395/35/1395359322398.jpg

Definite burn:lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Nah, nah, ni99a , don't try to switch now the reaction to his statement was as if Duncan somehow had a more relevant impact on American culture than Kobe. Guess some of these chumpola's must of forgot we ain't talking about LBJ or MJ huh?

Get your trolls straight in your rent free living Kobe minds.

Step it up gents.

He has more cultural impact... but why would that even matter? Who cares? I for my part look at how they play on a basketball court...

You prefer to look at who sells more cups in China?

[Mr Feeny]

Nah, nah, ni99a , don't try to switch now the reaction to his statement was as if Duncan somehow had a more relevant impact on American culture than Kobe. Guess some of these chumpola's must of forgot we ain't talking about LBJ or MJ huh?

Get your trolls straight in your rent free living Kobe minds.

Step it up gents.No, he's spot on. Even this ph@ggot is owning you:banana:

[HOoopCityJones]

More ad hominems? :roll:
I definitely am not a "ni99a" either. Bye ni99a

No, you're a ho-cake bitch-ass-ni99a who thinks talking baby talk to grown ass men is somehow edgy , which is significantly worse.


But I applaud you for the combobreaker. :bowdown:

[SilkkTheShocker]

I find it comical there are still some (mentally retarded) people that honestly believe Kobe is still ahead of Duncan on the all-time list :oldlol:

[mehyaM24]

German pretrnding to understand football.

this is what happens when you forget to wear head protection any time you are around wifi radiation. very dangerous stuff.

[ArbitraryWater]

So the "mother land" of football has only won one world cup? :roll: :roll: :roll:


And that on a goal where the ball didn't even pass the line? cute :lol

Stay mirin' on 3 WC's :pimp:

[Mr Feeny]

No, you're a ho-cake bitch-ass-ni99a who thinks talking baby talk to grown ass men is somehow edgy , which is significantly worse.


But I applaud you for the combobreaker. :bowdown:

He keeps going:oldlol:
Too too easy.....

[ArbitraryWater]

this is what happens when you forget to wear head protection any time you are around wifi radiation. very dangerous stuff.

this nigguh feemy stay taking L's from all sides :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

So the "mother land" of football has only won one world cup? :roll: :roll: :roll:


And that on a goal where the ball didn't even pass the line? cute :lol

Stay mirin' on 3 WC's :pimp:Ouchh bottom line 17> 13...:bowdown:

[HOoopCityJones]

He has more cultural impact... but why would that even matter? Who cares? I for my part look at how they play on a basketball court...

You prefer to look at who sells more cups in China?


I'm referring to the backlash surrounding his statement.

Kobe is more relevant than Duncan in every which way.

And deep down you all know who's better, that's why you come a running to drop your 2 cents. Kobe's ****ed Duncan his whole career , and Pop and Timmy will admit as much themselves.

[sammichoffate]

This site never ceases to amaze me sometimes :facepalm

[Mr Feeny]

this nigguh feemy stay taking L's from all sides :roll:

Still talking about me?

Rent free in thr Germanite's head:pimp:

[ArbitraryWater]

This site never ceases to amaze me sometimes :facepalm

Thats whats fun about ISH :banana:

Toying with kids :cheers:

[chazzy]

Duncan's already higher all time

[HOoopCityJones]

He keeps going:oldlol:
Too too easy.....

Not like trying to pop dat cheery , doe , right?

No panties getting ass ni99a.

[Springsteen]

reminder grown men are making half of these posts

[Mr Feeny]

I'm referring to the backlash surrounding his statement.

Kobe is more relevant than Duncan in every which way.

And deep down you all know who's better, that's why you come a running to drop your 2 cents. Kobe's ****ed Duncan his whole career , and Pop and Timmy will admit as much themselves.

We do. Duncan is better and is continuing to edge further and further away:cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

I find it comical that some people still suffer for my attention :oldlol:

Theses dudes went through long droughts of replying to my shit and me ignoring them all along :oldlol:

rent free :pimp:

[Mr Feeny]

Not like trying to pop dat cheery , doe , right?

No panties getting ass ni99a.

Ermmm......ok?

[HOoopCityJones]

Ermmm......ok?
:cheers: It'll happen bruh, stay strong.

[Mr Feeny]

Some people still discussing me:facepalm
:wtf:

[Mr Feeny]

:cheers: It'll happen bruh, stay strong.

You are incredibly easy to wind up:oldlol:

[sammichoffate]

Thats whats fun about ISH :banana:

Toying with kids :cheers:They're all ****ing morons, it makes actually watching First Take an option :oldlol:

[HOoopCityJones]

You are incredibly easy to wind up:oldlol:

I'm just don't respect chumps. :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

They're all ****ing morons, it makes actually watching First Take an option :oldlol:

Indubitably, m8

[Mr Feeny]

I'm just don't respect chumps. :confusedshrug:

Thou seem upset...

[HOoopCityJones]

Thou seem upset...

Not upset:no:

I just-don't-fuq-wit-fuq-ni99as.

Dat simple :pimp:

[sammichoffate]

Indubitably, m8You're honestly the first decent Heat fan i've seen on this site, it's hilarious :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Not upset:no:

I just-don't-fuq-wit-fuq-ni99as.

Dat simple :pimp:

You shook?

[HOoopCityJones]

You shook?

:oldlol: No no, trust me , I just smell *****.

Is that you Jah? :milton

[Mr Feeny]

:oldlol: No no, trust me , I just smell *****.

Is that you Jah? :milton

You sure?
Tissue?

[HOoopCityJones]

You sure?
Tissue?

How lame is it in Wyoming? Real Talk. :lol

jus wanna know.

[Mr Feeny]

How lame is it in Wyoming? Real Talk. :lol

jus wanna know.

Pretty meh. Does that make you feel better?

[mehyaM24]

How lame is it in Wyoming? Real Talk. :lol

jus wanna know.

damn bitch slapt offa err dayum page he post on. we ****ed dat ***** up an knocked his ass out cold yo! 

:cletus:

[Mr Feeny]

damn bitch slapt offa err dayum page he post on. we ****ed dat ***** up an knocked his ass out cold yo! 

:cletus:

Mhmmm...

[ImKobe]

I'll just wait until the Finals are played out and Kobe plays out his career. People are acting like Kobe's done - let's see what the Lakers put together first and how good Kobe will be once he returns. If he plays like he did in 2012-13 + he has a solid cast, he will go for #6.

Duncan winning this year would make up for his choke in the 2013 Finals. People would be KILLING Kobe for missing an easy layup and an even easier putback while Duncan gets no flack, like he didn't miss 2 easy shots that would have tied the game in the last minute of a Game 7.

[Mr Feeny]

I'll just wait until the Finals are played out and Kobe plays out his career. People are acting like Kobe's done - let's see what the Lakers put together first and how good Kobe will be once he returns. If he plays like he did in 2012-13 + he has a solid cast, he will go for #6.

Duncan winning this year would make up for his choke in the 2013 Finals. People would be KILLING Kobe for missing an easy layup and an even easier putback while Duncan gets no flack, like he didn't miss 2 easy shots that would have tied the game in the last minute of a Game 7.

Now, this is reasonable. But do you see the Lakers contending next year? That's the more salient point.

[ImKobe]

Now, this is reasonable. But do you see the Lakers contending next year? That's the more salient point.

That's why I said that I'll wait and see how Kobe's career plays out first. It will be about a month and a half til we see what the Lakers will look like next season and another 3 months until we see Kobe take the court.

Lakers have a solid draft pick AND enough cap space + the chance to put together a solid coaching staff after firing D'Antoni. I'm interested to see whether Pau stays or leaves and what we do with our cap space.

There are so many options that I can't possibly predict what's going to happen.

It depends on the coach we hire, I hope it's either Mark Jackson or Hollins - both were solid and actually won a Playoff series recently, Hollins got his team to the WCF, but they lacked a go-to scorer like Kobe. Jackson turned Golden State around and the team was solid on both ends, only problem I have is the high volume of threes, system is too much like D'Antoni's or McHale's.

Then we have the draft pick and the cap space + we don't know what Pau will do. One option is to trade for Love, which means we have no rookie and we have very limited cap space to fill out the rest of the team & the whole season would ride on Love's and Kobe's health - one of them goes down for let's say 20+ games and we're looking at a 1st round exit.

There are many solid FAs like Lowry, Thomas, Melo, Deng - hopefully we don't overpay for any of them...

We are in position to put together a contending team, but I don't really trust our current FO after the last few seasons + the fact that they just threw 50 mil at Kobe and just asked for his signature, of course Kobe took the guaranteed money after going down with a serious injury, they could have waited out the season and then asked him to accept less money if they were in position to sign multiple good FAs...

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Mr Feeny]

That's why I said that I'll wait and see how Kobe's career plays out first. It will be about a month and a half til we see what the Lakers will look like next season and another 3 months until we see Kobe take the court.

Lakers have a solid draft pick AND enough cap space + the chance to put together a solid coaching staff after firing D'Antoni. I'm interested to see whether Pau stays or leaves and what we do with our cap space.

There are so many options that I can't possibly predict what's going to happen.

It depends on the coach we hire, I hope it's either Mark Jackson or Hollins - both were solid and actually won a Playoff series recently, Hollins got his team to the WCF, but they lacked a go-to scorer like Kobe. Jackson turned Golden State around and the team was solid on both ends, only problem I have is the high volume of threes, system is too much like D'Antoni's or McHale's.

Then we have the draft pick and the cap space + we don't know what Pau will do. One option is to trade for Love, which means we have no rookie and we have very limited cap space to fill out the rest of the team & the whole season would ride on Love's and Kobe's health - one of them goes down for let's say 20+ games and we're looking at a 1st round exit.

There are many solid FAs like Lowry, Thomas, Melo, Deng - hopefully we don't overpay for any of them...

We are in position to put together a contending team, but I don't really trust our current FO after the last few seasons + the fact that they just threw 50 mil at Kobe and just asked for his signature, of course Kobe took the guaranteed money after going down with a serious injury, they could have waited out the season and then asked him to throw less money if they were in position to sign multiple good FAs...

We'll just have to wait and see.

Well we've learned never to count out Kobe or the Lakers front office even when their situation has looked bleak. They have a habit of pulling a bunny out of the hat out of nowhere. :cheers:

[Dbrog]

I'll just wait until the Finals are played out and Kobe plays out his career. People are acting like Kobe's done - let's see what the Lakers put together first and how good Kobe will be once he returns. If he plays like he did in 2012-13 + he has a solid cast, he will go for #6.

Duncan winning this year would make up for his choke in the 2013 Finals. People would be KILLING Kobe for missing an easy layup and an even easier putback while Duncan gets no flack, like he didn't miss 2 easy shots that would have tied the game in the last minute of a Game 7.

Stop. 1) There's no choke since Duncan was carrying that team and would have won if pop wouldn't have taken him OUT of the game.

2) Kobe is never getting higher than 9 on the alltime list. Basically impossible unless he has a crazy run in him (which he doesn't).

[Mr Feeny]

Stop. 1) There's no choke since Duncan was carrying that team and would have won if pop wouldn't have taken him OUT of the game.

2) Kobe is never getting higher than 9 on the alltime list. Basically impossible unless he has a crazy run in him (which he doesn't).

That's what he's saying though. Let's wait and see if Kobe DOES have a crazy run left in him. Improbable, I know, but not out of the realms of possibility.
Let's wait to see how the final two years pan out.

[Dbrog]

That's what he's saying though. Let's wait and see if Kobe DOES have a crazy run left in him. Improbable, I know, but not out of the realms of possibility.
Let's wait to see how the final two years pan out.

Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, Kobe has had a fantastic career and to even be in the top10 ever is an INSANE accomplishment! I just don't see Kobe having anything left. He looked atrocious last year when he came back.

[ImKobe]

Stop. 1) There's no choke since Duncan was carrying that team and would have won if pop wouldn't have taken him OUT of the game.

2) Kobe is never getting higher than 9 on the alltime list. Basically impossible unless he has a crazy run in him (which he doesn't).

It depends on the criteria of ranking all-time greats + the personal bias that goes along with it. No all-time great except for Michael Jordan can be ranked a certain position with everyone agreeing with the ranking. Kobe is an all-time great, let's just leave it at that and save all the time we would spend arguing/trolling about it, eh?

And how do you know if Kobe has a crazy run in him or not? Are you his personal doctor, how do you know the condition that he is currently in? He just had a ton of rest while basically missing the entire season and he's on a 6-month rehab program - has enough time to get every part of his body to a 100%. Most of us thought Duncan was done from about 09-12, then he started looking more like his old self and is now in position to win more rings again when basically everyone counted the Spurs big 3 out like 5 years ago.

I don't get why people on ISH act like everyone has to share the same opinion as they do, why can't you just accept that different people have different opinions and outlooks on the game of basketball? Why do you act like a know-it-all? We're all fans that enjoy watching the game and discussing it, we should respect eachother's opinions and not go apeshit when someone thinks differently.

[Mr Feeny]

Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, Kobe has had a fantastic career and to even be in the top10 ever is an INSANE accomplishment! I just don't see Kobe having anything left. He looked atrocious last year when he came back.

Chances are, you're right.

[ImKobe]

Fair enough. Don't get me wrong, Kobe has had a fantastic career and to even be in the top10 ever is an INSANE accomplishment! I just don't see Kobe having anything left. He looked atrocious last year when he came back.

He looked atrocious because he wasn't anywhere near a 100%. He could barely jump and he looked slow as hell, though he did look good in that Memphis game and his shots had more lift. Kobe couldn't run or perform any basketball-related activities for 7 months - of course he wouldn't come back looking like his old self, now he's been cleared for all activities and he will go through a long, intensive rehab. The probability that he returns to peak physical shape is pretty high, unless anything goes wrong with his knee.

Medicine is so advanced nowadays that anything is possible. If AP could return from a torn ACL and look better than ever, Kobe can at least return from his knee fracture and look like he did prior to the injury. I know, I know, different injuries and all, but he's overcome knee issues all his career. He had knee injuries during his prime and he looked done in 2011 after having his knee drained but looked like his 08 self physically in 2013.

Don't count him out just yet.

[COnDEMnED]

This thread gave me a migraine. The first few pages were ok, then I got lost in translation. I don't know what the **** was going on in here. LOL :oldlol:

[ImKobe]

This thread gave me a migraine. The first few pages were ok, then I got lost in translation. I don't know what the **** was going on in here. LOL :oldlol:

sums up every single Kobe-Duncan thread.

[Dbrog]

It depends on the criteria of ranking all-time greats + the personal bias that goes along with it. No all-time great except for Michael Jordan can be ranked a certain position with everyone agreeing with the ranking. Kobe is an all-time great, let's just leave it at that and save all the time we would spend arguing/trolling about it, eh?

And how do you know if Kobe has a crazy run in him or not? Are you his personal doctor, how do you know the condition that he is currently in? He just had a ton of rest while basically missing the entire season and he's on a 6-month rehab program - has enough time to get every part of his body to a 100%. Most of us thought Duncan was done from about 09-12, then he started looking more like his old self and is now in position to win more rings again when basically everyone counted the Spurs big 3 out like 5 years ago.

I don't get why people on ISH act like everyone has to share the same opinion as they do, why can't you just accept that different people have different opinions and outlooks on the game of basketball? Why do you act like a know-it-all? We're all fans that enjoy watching the game and discussing it, we should respect eachother's opinions and not go apeshit when someone thinks differently.

That's fine. You can have your opinions...but you can't back them up well. You know Kobe completely ruptured his tendon right? If someone COULD come back from that I would say it's Kobe...but from what I've heard and read from DOCTORS, that won't happen. However, I think he can still be an excellent teammate getting boards and dimes. Just don't expect this 30ppg scorer to return. It's unrealistic...in my opinion.

As for Jordan being the undisputed GOAT, that's a full of crap opinion too. Russell has literally double the accomplishments MJ does. Wilt literally has double the stat records he does. Kareem has roughly the same accomplishments as MJ though not always the undisputed best player on his own team. Point is, it's certainly arguable for that #1 spot. On the other hand, for Kobe to get to #8, he would have to jump Duncan, Shaq, or Lebron depending on the individual's list. Don't see that happening, though it's not completely impossible.

[Carbine]

If Kobe comes back as 2012-2013 Kobe they're not going anywhere important.

He was a DH. His per game numbers were impressive, but those are offensive counting stats.

No stat out there to count how many lazy close outs he made, how many times he got beat off the dribble, etc.

Box score lovers will over value 2012-2013 Kobe.

[ImKobe]

If Kobe comes back as 2012-2013 Kobe they're not going anywhere important.

He was a DH. His per game numbers were impressive, but those are offensive counting stats.

No stat out there to count how many lazy close outs he made, how many times he got beat off the dribble, etc.

Box score lovers will over value 2012-2013 Kobe.

Kobe in 2013 played under a coach that didn't have the team play a lick of defense. Defense is a TEAM effort. Kobe looked good on the defensive end while guarding the ballhandler, but he just didn't have the stamina to score 30+ points every night + guard the opposing PGs all night, he only did it in stretches. Howard was terrible on D as well, but he's one of the best defensive players of all-time. It was a product of the system.

If Kobe can still carry a team on the offensive end - Lakers can win it all, as it was evidenced in 09 and 2010. He looked just as good offensively in 2013. Difference was that our coaching staff sucked and players were constantly injured.

THIS is what Kobe looked like a game prior to injuring his achilles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwPbeYglbk4

[Springsteen]

relevant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5s4jZoOdLc

[ImKobe]

relevant

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5s4jZoOdLc

:applause: